to think that feminism should have thought about the consequences and set some rules.

(429 Posts)
TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 20:33:34

I've been chatting with DP this evening and mentioned a post that's been doing the rounds on facebook. It's from a lady sending a message to This Morning about the cost of childcare - on the surface it's a powerful post.

To cut it down:

'I am looking to return to work next year and child care will cost 810 every 4wks - this is more than our mortage!!. The government should help with child care costs.'

DP and I agree with it's sentiment - that child care costs are crippling families, but not necessarily with helping for the costs - he said:

"This is why feminism should have laid down some rules. Both parents earning an income meant banks salivated and started lending for homes based on both. This has forced up prices to cover this as house prices are a function of the amount being lent. Society as a whole loses, bankers win. What should have happened is when you have kids, both parents should be encouraged to work part time so that childcare is shared - or failing that the higher earner whichever gender should have been the one to work. Problems like this wouldn't have happened."

It struck a chord with me - what do you ladies think?

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 20:38:44

Having fallen into the two income trap families are now discovering that two incomes are sometimes not even enough.

StuntGirl Fri 09-Nov-12 20:40:05

That's more a problem with the banks/government that the feminists.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 20:42:22

I agree stuntgirl - it's a problem with the banks and government, but we all have to take some responsibility for going with it sad.

worklifedifficult Fri 09-Nov-12 20:43:03

I'm surprised at making a connection between mortgage lenders and feminism that's asking for a flaming. The commercial lenders saw an opportunity for joint income mortgages and took it...

£205 per week is no mean a living wage to start with. Its also pretty bloody cheap if it was London full time. Inflation, living cost etc, dictate a wage and I couldn't live on that.

I do agree that there should be greater provision by the government for families especially with younger children, how it would be done I don't know increasing taxes isn't the way. ho hum... Good point just the feminism bit is a red herring btw I'm a bloke

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 20:43:13

I don't get the feminisim should have made some rules bit. Feminism is not one group or person.
Who would have made the rules.

In an equal society both those options would be available. And for me they were. Me and dh worked around eachother and the kids.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 20:45:40

So the answer to over lending is to force one parent to stay at home?

What a load of tosh.

And more than a little bit of a stretch to lay this at the door of feminism. If you can't afford 800 per month for childcare on two salaries, how are you going to pay the mortgage and all the other bills on one? Or do women just earn "pin money" <vom> in most households?

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 20:45:41

I think DP's point was that when women started entering the workforce, this should have flagged up and thought about more. If everyone had said no to being offered the massive debt based on two fulltime wages, the banks would have been powerless.

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 20:45:49

I think, that way back in the 60's/70's when women were starting to re-enter the labour market, it was because many women wanted a more fulfilling life, equality, their own income and because they were educated they wanted to make use of their education. However this coincided with a time when capitalism was hitting a cycle where lower wage rates could be used to prop up falling profits. Capitalists seized on the fact that there was no longer a labour shortage, drove down overall wage rates, so while women campaigned for equal pay.....we have only achieved it only through wage suppression.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 20:46:41

It was probably changes in the 80s to do with mortgages that didn't help.
Lots of rules changed compared to the 70s where lending came down to an interview with your local bank manager.

FreudiansSlipper Fri 09-Nov-12 20:47:16

What rules could feminists make

another see what feminism has done just wrapped up in a less aggressive way

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 20:47:57

When did women start entering the workforce then? As far as I am aware women have always worked, both inside and outside the home.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 20:48:15

think DP's point was that when women started entering the workforce, this should have flagged up and thought about more.

But in an equal society, men should have thought about this too.

Both people in a couple should consider this when buyng a house.

I think it's bollocks.

'Feminism' isn't in a position to 'set rules'. We have a government and a legal system, neither of which are strikingly feminist.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 20:49:10

I don't think there was an iota of anti-feminism in DP's statement - he says that both parents should share the workload in the best case, or whoever earns more should be the sole income. It's not a rant against it confused

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 20:49:25

After the war many women went back into the home, this coincided with better pay over that period from 1950-1070 wages were rising.

I don't think your DP has really thought that comment through, has he?

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 20:49:58

Agree Pamela - both sexes should have thought it through obviously. But we didn't.

gordyslovesheep Fri 09-Nov-12 20:50:37

*I don't get the feminisim should have made some rules bit. Feminism is not one group or person.
Who would have made the rules*

this ^ grin

reindeerjumper Fri 09-Nov-12 20:50:54

Oh yes, It's all feminism's fault.

msrisotto Fri 09-Nov-12 20:50:59

Could his tone be any more patronising? And ridiculous, it isn't only women's responsibility to think through what he is talking about. The patriarchy really should have had a conscience in the first place.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 20:51:28

OK - it was poor phrasing perhaps. It's not about setting rules, it's more about falling into a trap.

How would both sexes thinking it through work, though?

The issue isn't that no-one thinks about this stuff, I reckon: it's that it's hard to implement changes from a fairly powerless position (ie., the one most of us, male and, especially, female, are in). We're individuals. The power is in the hands of the government and it is also cemented by hundreds of years of doing things in a way that makes it harder for women.

To blame 'feminism' is missing the point.

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 20:51:33

I agree LRD, I'm wondering when "we" should have made these rules and if we had, who the hell would have listened and exactly what power have women had to set the ground rules.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 20:51:44

But it is an anti feminist rant op.

Because he is saying ' feminism should have thought about this' is blaming feminism.

Cross posted - yes, I would agree it is about falling into a trap.

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Fri 09-Nov-12 20:51:56

Large numbers of women have always worked before feminism was even thought of. Feminism helped ensure that women had better opportunities in the workplace and access to a wider range of jobs and would get paid the same as men.

Some people just love to blame feminism for everything, though smile

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 20:52:36

I think you're all concentrating on the poor choice of using feminism, and missing the bigger point sadly.

No, not poor phrasing as such - more a load of inflammatory bollocks.

StuntGirl Fri 09-Nov-12 20:52:44

Those pesky feminists, never thinking things through. It's all their fault y'know.

DameFanny Fri 09-Nov-12 20:52:46

Oh do do one OP

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 20:52:55

But why should there be a sole income? Why does one parent have to stay at home? And how would that help if as you say mortgage lending has been been raised based on dual incomes?

My mother was a sahm for several years, and even when she started working again they only borrowed based on my dads wage in case she had to give up work for any reason. Because they were sensible enough to cut their coat according to their cloth.

I earn more than the national average but less than half what DH earns. Anyone telling me I have therefore drawn the short straw and must abandon the career I've worked for for ten years is going to get short shrift I'm afraid.

ecclesvet Fri 09-Nov-12 20:53:53

Clearly the Board of Feminists should have agreed some rules before they started all this fuss.

Dozer Fri 09-Nov-12 20:54:26

Um, isn't your concern really about capitalism?

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 20:54:58

He didn't say there should be one income - that's the non ideal scenario. The ideal is everything is shared.

Your DP said feminism should have laid down some rules. I think pointing out what shite that is is fair enough, tbh.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 20:57:01

Fair enough lady - I agree that was a very poor choice of words and will be having words with him. But I do think his main argument is reasonable and childcare costs could have been avoided if the home wasn't so expensive.

fenix Fri 09-Nov-12 20:57:02

Governments would be well-served to subsidise childcare as it is in their long-term interest that both parents remain in the workforce.

People who work, on the whole, provide useful services that we all appreciate. They can fend for themselves in retirement. They need minimal assistance with housing. With their taxes, workers add valuable funds used to help others in vulnerable situations, as well as contributing to the costs of everyday services they use.

The fact that your DP referred to 'when women started entering the workforce' shows his ignorance of history, or perhaps a class bubble. Women have always worked. There was a blip around the 50s where the rose-tinted image of a stay-at-home housewife was promoted, which served the government's economic plans of the day. But before and after this, women have always contributed by doing work from home, menial labour in factories, the caring professions, in science, as domestic labour, as tutors etc... unless they were so wealthy, neither they nor their partner had a need to earn their own keep.

How, pray tell, should feminism have laid down some ground rules? It spans millions of women, in thousands of places over hundreds of years. Who is this one feminist leader you'd like to conveniently blame?

I would suggest your DP read up on the waves of feminism and how they all had differing motives and goals which were fought for. The vote, the right for marital rape to be seen as a violent act, the fight for contraceptives, the right to continue in education, the right to have an abortion - major aims of feminism, but hardly a major contributory factor to house prices.

Maybe you should take issue with the government's reluctance to replace diminished housing stock, with people who overstretched themselves and flipped houses, with second home owners who distort local market prices.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 20:57:06

Well DH can't work part time. His business would pretty much shrivel up and die. So I get to give up my career in the world according to your oh?

No ta.

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 20:57:44

Well OP I'm very sorry but you can't have enough income on shared art time work because the decision was taken not by feminists or even government for that matter, to employ two wage slaves on half pay! So what now and who's fault?

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 20:58:04

Your dp is also assuming all parents are home owners. They aren't. Not even working parents.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 20:58:35

'Maybe you should take issue with the government's reluctance to replace diminished housing stock, with people who overstretched themselves and flipped houses, with second home owners who distort local market prices.'

He's mentioned all those too before - entirely agrees. I think he's just a little misguided but his heart is in the right place.

StuntGirl Fri 09-Nov-12 20:58:36

Think about it this way OP - is it Rosa Parks fault we haven't achieved a world of racial harmony? Of course not.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:00:00

OK chubfuddler - that is fine. If both parents want to work - no problem with that. But then childcare costs are their lookout, not everyone elses.

What do you mean you'll be having words with him? You're the one who bloody posted it.

I thought his argument was about feminists not laying down some rules and therefore causing house prices to rise, in a round about way.

I think neither of you have got a fucking clue about what you're wittering on about really.

So, YABU.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 21:00:37

We live in a capitalist society. Having 2 incomes allows people to buy more and have more disposable income. Housing is limited in this country - the effect of too little housing being built.

So what effect will this have? A valuable product is in short supply, banks are willing to lend.

It's not feminist's fault - it's the nature of the free market we live in.

Yama Fri 09-Nov-12 21:00:58

Is anyone really obtuse enough to think that women have any power whatsoever to set rules?

Poor men, their lives have been fucked up because of women #no342.

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 21:01:01

If both parents want to work - no problem with that. But then childcare costs are their lookout, not everyone elses

but some families need two incomes

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 21:01:40

But I do think his main argument is reasonable and childcare costs could have been avoided if the home wasn't so expensive.

and what? Childcare costs could be avoided if petrol prices hadn't gone up, if local schools were the ones your kids always went to (we have to travel 5 miles to dds), if food was cheaper.

Its no surprise that the cost of living has an impact on whether one person remains at home. Its also not surprise that in some couples both which to pursue their careers and therefore need childcare.

I really don't get what your saying because now is sound like 'the cost of living means we need childcare'

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 21:01:55

Misguided but his heart is in the right place?

Oh boo hoo. I'm sorry for not being grateful for his pearls of wisdom about what feminism (as if it were a cohesive movement with stated and fixed aims and objectives) should have thought about.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:02:17

"but some families need two incomes"

Indeed - because of high house prices - that's the point.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 21:03:01

They are our look out. Not one penny of tax credits here.

IfNotNowThenWhen Fri 09-Nov-12 21:03:18

There are rules in Feminism. Here are just 3.

Rule 1. Men should accept that the care of their children is equally their responsibility.
Rule 2. Employers should accept that the care of their employee's children is equally the responsibility of their employees and their partners.
Rule 3. Men should share domestic tasks equally in the home

If men and society can't follow the damn rules, it's not the fault of "Feminism".
FWIW, the women in my family have always worked, even when "Feminism" said it was not the done thing.
It is the responsibility of those who actually make the laws regarding parental leave etc to make the rules of Feminism stick, otherwise we are all pissing in the wind.

I Thank You.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 21:04:36

No, because of the high cost of living. You actually think everyone is a home owner? Or that all tenants are renting mortgaged properties? I rent - there has never been a mortgage on this house. The landlord (and his family) have owned it since it was built.

ticktockcroc Fri 09-Nov-12 21:04:38

"I think you're all concentrating on the poor choice of using feminism, and missing the bigger point sadly."

We're not missing the point. You asked us what we thought of your DH's deeply misogynist views and we're telling you.

worklifedifficult Fri 09-Nov-12 21:04:39

Feminism has got bugger all to do with usury is gender non specific... and women entered the labourforce in the bleeding paleolithic... hunter gather culteurs who did the gathering... the industrial revolution would never of happened if it wasn't for women and children working in factories and the information age would never have come about without Ada Lovelace

gordyslovesheep Fri 09-Nov-12 21:04:48

think DP's point was that when women started entering the workforce, this should have flagged up and thought about more.

when - your DP is aware that women have ALWAYS worked ...since the dawn of time

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 21:04:58

Indeed - because of high house prices - that's the point.

It isn't just housing that is dispossessing you of your money though

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:05:59

He is not a misogynist. He made me breakfast in bed the other day.

fenix Fri 09-Nov-12 21:06:59

I think he's more than a little misguided, but ignorance is easily remediable. If you think his heart's in the right place, then I'm sure you'd both find it interesting and enlightening to learn some more about feminism.

It'd be great if you both understood more about why so many women take the exit ramp off their careers and why they find themselves without access to return.

It'd be great if he could distinguish the broad aims of feminism from the results of a capitalistic system.

It'd be great if he had an inkling of how feminism has had to struggle against male dominated institutions, such as banking, the government and the legal profession - how can we expect feminism to change these things without having a voice there?

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 21:07:14

He is not a misogynist. He made me breakfast in bed the other day.

Your correct he isn't a misogynist. You are just trying to start a bunfight.

I wouldn't dream of calling him a misogynist based on the tiny amount of info on this thread ... but making you breakfast in bed is hardly disqualifying him from that group!

SomersetONeil Fri 09-Nov-12 21:07:22

I'm struggling to see how feminism is in any way more responsible and more to blame for this particular situation, than that grand old patriarchal institution: capitalism... wink

ticktockcroc Fri 09-Nov-12 21:07:43

"He is not a misogynist. He made me breakfast in bed the other day"

shock hmm grin

Good one, OP!

He is a misogynist. Even misogynists can boil a kettle and work a toaster. Some of them can even read!

Oh I have just realised you're a comedy MNer. This is why we need the hide poster option.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:11:07

He's a highly fascinating man who ejects opinions that some people may find a little bit close to the knuckle, but in the end I think he's proven himself to be a very caring father and a superb provider. He has been buying up gold in vast quantities since 2001 whilst saying 'it's the only rational response to irrational monetary policy'. He's done very well for us and he's only trying to share his wisdom about what the real problems are with others.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 21:11:58

There were lots of changes in the 1980s

For example:

1) taking account of increasing proportions of the second earner’s income

2) increasingthe length of the loan repayment term

3) increasing the multiple of loan granted to earnings (from around 2.5 to 5 or 6)

4) encouraging applicants to overstate their incomes

I think it also became easier to get mortgages for second homes and for buy to let.

All these things would lead to increased house prices. I suppose you could factor in increased households, increased number of people living alone. living longer all of which would lead to increased prices.

fenix Fri 09-Nov-12 21:13:17

'Childcare costs are their lookout, not everyone else's'.

Bzzz, wrong. Or will you be paying fully for your refuse collection, ambulance trips, your children's schooling and medicare care - which also includes contributing to the education of the doctors and teachers involved? i.e. you can't just go private and act like you've not been subsidised. Do you pay for streetlights, paved roads, traffic lights, the police, our legal system, the social security system?

Bottom line is, we should all contribute as best we can, and the government should use our contribution fairly to provide a safe, pleasant place to live and give us opportunities to contribute to the economy and greater society. Childcare falls into this.

Yama Fri 09-Nov-12 21:13:33

I think my question about obtuseness has been answered.

ravenAK Fri 09-Nov-12 21:14:42

So is this what you think, or what dp thinks?

Thread title & subsequent backpedalling are mutually contradictory.

Quadrangle Fri 09-Nov-12 21:15:59

I agree with what your dh said expect for his first sentence

ravenAK Fri 09-Nov-12 21:16:11

Oh sorry. Now seen post of 21:11. <smirk>

Quadrangle Fri 09-Nov-12 21:16:17

except

fenix Fri 09-Nov-12 21:17:15

He's an ignorant twit. As are you, for being blown away by his little pearls of wisdom and for saying with a straight face that a misogynist wouldn't make you breakfast in bed!

Again, nothing some wider reading can't remedy, but I get the feeling he's a bit of a blowhard who would struggle to concede there is much he is ignorant about...

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:17:32

DP says he would rather pay for his own refuse collection as we generate little waste and have a compost bin which our faeces go into. Same with health care and schooling. Streetlights and paved roads are no problem as he lives off the land and I walk to work and a torch would be sufficient in winter.

worklifedifficult Fri 09-Nov-12 21:18:13

buying up gold in vast quantities since 2001 big lolz there H Samuel nano-ounce standard doesn't count... that's the biggest laff I've had all week do you know how the metal markets work!?!?!?

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 21:19:16

Has he built the gold bars into the cavity walls like Marcos did?

And do you have any opinions of your own?

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 21:20:07

He lives off the land and buys gold in vast quantities?

What a load of crap.

mummybare Fri 09-Nov-12 21:20:32

Hmm, just musing... Perhaps the focus of feminism, historically, on women's right to go out to work (rather than, say, paternity leave, flexible working, etc.) has unintentionally led to a situatioon where parents, of either gender, cannot afford to be around to raise their children. I don't think I know anyone who has been able to stay at home after maternity leave, and plenty of people who want to.

Which is not to say that this is feminism's 'fault'. It's not about blame; it's just an unwelcome side-effect.

ravenAK Fri 09-Nov-12 21:20:45

You do your health care & schooling in the compost bin?

StuntGirl Fri 09-Nov-12 21:20:55

Maybe they've built their bridge out of gold bricks? <helpful>

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:21:32

He has over 50kg of gold worklife, bought at close to Brown's bottom prices so he's made a hell of a return :-). He knows how metal markets work and plays them like a fiddle. His gains in silver are astronomical.

Would love a wooden spoon emoticon for the OP smile

Yama Fri 09-Nov-12 21:22:51

Tulisa - I pay much more in taxes than the average wage earner and quite frankly would prefer to burn my own faeces. I walk to work. What exactly is your latest boast all about? Sorry, it is not actually a boast but a vicarious boast.

ticktockcroc Fri 09-Nov-12 21:23:23

Quite, stuntgirl. As an aside, I'm after a new high chair - does anyone know what the Trip Trap is like?

I would lay the blame more on a short-sighted government who doesn't see, unlike other countries, that subsidising childcare boost the economy by keeping more women in the workforce ad allowing their careers to progress without a large damaging break. Thus ultimately, they will earn more, pay more taxes and more than 'repay' the subsidy.

And house prices are another story altogether - bankers' greed and careless lending.

High house prices and expensive childcare are in no way the 'fault' of women wishing to exist as fully-functioning members of society instead of domestic drudges. It's the fault of the men in power. Any societal shortcomings will always be the fault of those in charge. And until things become more balanced, at the moment that's no-one other than MEN.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 21:24:46

rubbish.this has nothing to do with feminism
the so called solution is actually reinforcing patriarchy,if highest earner stays home.that's likely be woman
how in the hell is recommending women be beholden to high wage partner feminist?

mummybare Fri 09-Nov-12 21:24:49

<Sees conversation has moved on; hands OP a torch and a Cash For Gold envelope>

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 21:24:49

"He has over 50kg of gold worklife, bought at close to Brown's bottom prices so he's made a hell of a return :-). He knows how metal markets work and plays them like a fiddle. His gains in silver are astronomical. "

Are you sure it's 50Kg?

That is quite a lot of money.

MyCannyBairn Fri 09-Nov-12 21:25:35

Capitalism not feminism ffs.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:26:02

2 million worth kim. We know.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 21:26:04

It's £30,000 per kilo smile

So that makes you a millionaire.

fenix Fri 09-Nov-12 21:26:04

I think we've seen the OP here to shit stir, she's not interested in opinions, or learning anything.

Just a shame that their self-sufficiency principles don't stretch to shunning internet and other technology developed by people educated in government schools and universities... and dependent on a multitude of services and public goods.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 21:26:34

You're not Xenia Mk2 are you?

MooncupGoddess Fri 09-Nov-12 21:27:44

The combination of the compost toilet and the gold buying strategy is pure genius. Well done OP grin

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:28:30

Fenix, DP was involved in Arpanet, so don't preach to him about the creating of the internet. He was also a developer in Xerox labs, and was supposedly the brains behind WIMP.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 21:29:15

From your OP

"I am looking to return to work next year and child care will cost 810 every 4wks - this is more than our mortage!!. The government should help with child care costs.'"

But you have £2million of gold. And you want to work.

confused

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 21:29:50

Well that's all lovely.

What about you? Apart from your love of a certain n dubz singer, what do you think?

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:31:12

Erm kim, that was from a facebook post that's going round. It's nothing to do with us. Read the OP before you make assumptions. I work (and get ogled at).

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 21:31:18

Doesn't human poo have to be treated before being used as compost?

I don't think that's healthy OP, but then neither is your imagination in general.

MooncupGoddess Fri 09-Nov-12 21:32:02

I think that's a quote from the Facebook post that sparked the discussion, kim.

'Plays the metal markets like a fiddle' grin

DowagersHump Fri 09-Nov-12 21:32:19

I am a single parent. I have always earned my own money and I own a house and raise a child. I'm also a feminist.

The only thing that has crippled me is the cost of childcare.

It's got fuck all to do with feminism.

Having said all that, having read your post about recycling your shit, I think you may be slightly bonkers so this is neither here nor there

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 21:32:40

work and get ogled at
where you work? hooters show bar

fenix Fri 09-Nov-12 21:32:46

Kim147, apparently that was a quote from a post they read on facebook.

The OP is here for shits and giggles, it's been established, but she's not personally wanting to work with her gold bars and self-sufficient lifestyle...

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 21:34:45

I happen to agree with some of what your DH has said but I take issue with it being the fault of feminists.

In terms of debt, capitalism has always thrived on debt despite what the media would have you believe, the main difference now is that more and more credit has been extended to workers. This is because of falling wages which is due to the natural falling rate of profit, something that is inevitable under capitalism.

The issue with wages has been partly stoked by the fact that all wokers have less bargaining power when we have a labour surplus, in that your husband is correct. But the surplus hasn't just been caused by women being in the workforce and only partly because women re-entered the workforce long after having been pushed out after 1945. 1945-1970 saw living standards increase for two reasons, the debt to GDP fell very steeply, we were short of men, women went back the kitchen but we also discovered new technologies that improved output but as yet hadn't pushed the worker aside. We had a sharp rise in wages which matched output.

He could have said that both men and women are wrong because we have made each and everyone of us available for waged worked when we have a falling rate of labour demand.

If he has an issue with the fact that life has become unaffordable to the many maybe he could take issue with the fact that it is men who own 90% of the worlds wealth and ask them to sort it out. Women are exploited for cheap labour the world over the main beneficiaries of this are the wealthy 10% who are overwhelmingly male.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:34:56

DP ensures our faeces are completely composted and heat treated, then lets them cool for a year before using it on the land. We have a few acres of Grade 1 Agricultural so it's no problem.

IfNotNowThenWhen Fri 09-Nov-12 21:35:00

Around this point in the year marks the day that women begin working for free, based on the percentage that women earn, compared to men.
A friend of mine recently remarked that, as a part time employee, she is not entitled to the bonuses her male colleagues receive, because she doesn't work enough hours to qualify.
This, regardless of the FACT that she does more work than they do, and brings in more revenue than they do in the time she is there.
She doesn't have the energy to complain, as she is also running her and her husbands home and doing most of the domestic tasks.
Is that "Feminism's" fault too?

gordyslovesheep Fri 09-Nov-12 21:35:58

are you a poo troll in disguise?

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:36:15

He is vehermently anti-capitalist Mini. He says information dissemination is his way of helping the world for now.

IfNotNowThenWhen Fri 09-Nov-12 21:37:17

Oh dear Lord. Why am I engaging with this? Just read OP's last post.
At least you will have well fertilised land, OP, seeing as you are full of shit.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:39:57
Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 21:39:58

Vehemently anti capitalist with personal gold reserves?

You've jumped the shark now op.

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 21:41:04

What is he going to do with all this gold then? the minute you turn it back into money it doesn't have a stable value? oh wait, neither does gold!

Are you sure he's an anti-cap? he sounds more like a free market anti fiat-money loon.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:44:24

He's very much anti-fiat. The free market is fine - as long as it is genuinely free. We don't have those as the bank bailouts proved he says. But he's also said that remaining fluid in your choices (he's also very liquid too, as he says only 10% of assets should be in any one class) is paramount in order to 'play these sociopathic governments'.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 21:44:57

DP ensures our faeces are completely composted and heat treated, then lets them cool for a year before using it on the land. We have a few acres of Grade 1 Agricultural so it's no problem.

I wouldn't be too sure about that, OP. its still not recommended. And there is a lot more to it.

But since you are full of crap, there will be plenty to go around.

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 21:45:59

So he isn't an anti cap then is he. He is a binary.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 21:46:54

So only 10% of your assets are in gold? You've got other assets worth 18 million have you?

Pull the other one, it plays my old mans a dust man.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 09-Nov-12 21:48:02

YABU but I see your point.

Feminism sought equality for women. This is a good thing.
There were some unforeseen results. Instead of equality women are still doing the lion's share of domestic and childcare duties and working outside the home (still for less money and opportunities than their male colleagues). More women are raising families as single parents. Instead of equality, we ended up with even more duties. These are not good things.

However, there is no other place or time in history that I would rather be as a woman. And that is down to feminism.

The fight goes on. Feminists could not have foreseen the above, but we know it now and it is our job to keep fighting for equality inside and outside the home.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 21:49:32

Firstly, op, i have never read so many posts on here that start with 'he says' 'he said' he thinks'. Bless you.

Secondly another thread doesn't prove anything. I could create a post saying I have 2 and own a chain of restaurants across the country and am a multi millionaire. I own 6 cars and a country estate that I am renaming SKYFALL. smile

Doesn't make it true (or is it?)

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 21:50:12

you're fuckin priceless.^dh was brains behind WIMP^
aye,does he also work on KEECH unit
are you seconded to the wind and piss project

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 21:51:41

To be fair though, all these women going out to work has created a whole new market in the childcare industry and the domestic industry.

Because people need to work in any industry (such as childcare) to be able to afford the rent or mortgage.

MoreBeta Fri 09-Nov-12 21:51:50

Coming back to the original issue.

This phenomenon of more women working was written about by an Amercian author several decades ago who noted that when families suddenly needed both man and wife to work in order to live the economy became more fragile as did family life.

The 1950s saw most women stay at home and if the man lost his job the women would often find a part time job while the man found a new full time job. The resiliance this arrangement offered to family finances has now gone. If both people are working there is nothing to fall back on if one of them loses their job.

It is a recognised social and economic phenomenon that has hit very hard in the Western World in recent years. Not sure it is a feminist issue though.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 21:54:19

op it's quite telling you're so braggy and eager to disclose dp numerous achievements
what about you,why do you need to reference yourself on his achievements
what about you,what's your deal.don't live vicariously through dp

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 21:55:48

www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

Very interesting lecture about the two income trap. Elizabeth Warren is a professor of law studying this area. At no point does she blame feminists.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 21:55:54

Your third paragraph makes no sense at all morebeta. If both partners are working and one loses their job that leaves nothing to fall back on. Really? I would have thought the opposite

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 21:59:55

If both parents had been storing their surplus income in silver and tinned food rather than in Bank of England promiseschub fuddler while the going was good, they'd have plenty to fall back on.

summerflower Fri 09-Nov-12 22:00:16

Haven't read the whole thread as it seems to have gone off the rails and into a quagmire, but the OP's DH is talking crap. There are several reasons house prices have risen, for example, increasing life expectancy, high cost of renting, shortage of supply, competition among mortgage lenders - see this link rising house prices

You will see that it has fuck all to do with working women, given that as others have already pointed out, women have always worked in one way or another. To argue that it is women's fault is just another way of saying women should stay in the kitchen where they belong, or else look at the state of the country. Plus, the vast majority of working women work part-time when children come along, the number of households with two parents working full-time is really not the majority.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:00:36

By the way, that's my opinion, not DP's. I think I'm starting to get what he means.

chandellina Fri 09-Nov-12 22:01:04

Isn't your dh just describing the actual situation for many if not most people with pre school age children? One person often stays home if childcare is as much or more than their pay, or the parents try to adjust their schedules to minimise costs.

I don't see what any of this has to do with feminism. Childcare by a worker can cost what the parent earns, as it probably should, unless subsidised. Both parents earning has a neutral outcome.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:03:01

In the loose lending times, childcare wasn't considered a criteria in lending. It was solely "how much gross income do you both have - great - here have 8 times that'.b

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 22:04:36

I think lenders will be tightening up soon - and really looking at bank statements.

Will this have any effect?

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:04:43

ok,so lose the dp says this,says that
what do you think?be more independent bit more feisty.less wee wifey
and I kind of like tulisa c she's had hard knock life - her documentary about carers and mental illness was great

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:06:30

DP is a gem. Why shouldn't I be proud of his achievements? He's proud of mine. When I recently got made Partner at a very prestigious law firm, he picked a bunch of incredible Gerbera's he'd been growing and made an absolutely incredible hand tied bouquet.

chandellina Fri 09-Nov-12 22:07:33

Well it definitely is considered now, on my mortgage at least.

I think a lot of other factors played a larger role in house price rises. Standards indeed were loosened but it could just as easily been (and was as well) about allowing higher multiples on one income. There isn't any regulation limiting income multiples.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:09:20

Oh god the op really is a cut price Xenia isn't she?

MooncupGoddess Fri 09-Nov-12 22:09:33

What does your DP do, Tulisa? Or is he too busy being self-sufficient and playing the metal markets?

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:10:02

Noone should take out a mortgage IMHO, or be allowed to borrow or buy on the never never. If you can't save up for it, you can't buy it. It's just handing over interest to greedy gits.

I am very much of the philosophy that you borrow once, you pay for it twice with interest, and all that comes out of your net salary. So you're three times an idiot.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:10:09

you're referencing yourself via your partner
why aren't you refer ing your self.recent promotion to partner or example
it's v subservient to reference self via make partner.you're not his chattel.assert yourself, stop being so simmpery, he did dis and he did dat

chandellina Fri 09-Nov-12 22:10:24

I'd point to the cheap funding banks got from securitising and offloading mortgages, which coincided exactly with the boom.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:10:57

Law firms are always prestigious when someone gets partnership aren't they? No one ever says "I got offered partnership but the place is a complete scrots end, still I took it anyway".

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:12:26

hey,let's talk law and partners, what firm?magic circle
what cpd did you put in
what's your specialism, him much did your fee go up

Cailleach Fri 09-Nov-12 22:13:13

As far as house prices go, at least, this is rubbish: what has happened to drive up house prices recently was that banks began lending way over the recommended multiples of salary, frequently to people with terrible credit records. That, and interest rates have been held way too low for far too long, making credit "cheap" and fueling a house price boom.

And a boom is always followed by a bust. This has happened before with UK property, in the nineties, eighties, seventies...it's just an investment mania, like the Tulip Bulb dealio in the seventeenth century or the stock market lunacy of the 1920s which led to the crash in 1929.

People get "get rich quick fever", pile into an asset, eventually run out of greater fools to sell to at the bottom of the pyramid and the whole rotten mess collapses.

House prices were roughly one third to one quarter of what they were at the peak bubble in 2007 back in late 1999 - when I bought my first house. As far as I know, you could get a joint mortgage then...!

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:15:07

Yup housing market is a great big Ponzi scheme.

ticktockcroc - we've got the Tripp Trapp. Is great - gets nice and close to the table so no need for a tray and allegedly good for BLW (I say allegedly since the Commanderling likes to sit in hers but hasn't grasped the concept of food yet). Also it matches our dining table. Bit of an arse to assemble but nice and solid.

my husband approved this message while wearing his tinfoil hat

chandellina Fri 09-Nov-12 22:16:26

Tulisa, credit allows companies to take risks and grow, to hire people and fuel the economy. On a household level it let's people leverage on their future earnings growth, and capitalise on inflation.

I appreciate your sentiment, and there needs to be responsible lending and borrowing, but don't dismiss the many economic and social benefits of credit. It pulls nations out of poverty and allows everything from medical advances to great business ideas to flourish.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:16:32

tulisa,would you consider mentoring other females seeing you just made partner

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:16:44

DP prefers not to define himself by what he 'does'. He finds that question offensive. He's a mover/shaker. He makes things happen. He's always got an iron in the fire.

I work for one of the top 3 law firms - trust me when I say it's a biggun.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:17:27

"Yup housing market is a great big Ponzi scheme."

DP used exactly those words. See my earlier thread.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:17:43

Not so much of an idiot now eh chubfudller.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:18:23

"Capitalise on inflation"

Inflation is theft, pure and simple from those who save.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:18:40

Top three? Is there such a thing?

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:18:59

big 3.magic circle
you're an inspiration
let's talk fees and cpd.what's your specialism?

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:19:14

No he's still an idiot. Even a stopped click is right twice a day.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:19:47

I work mainly pro-bono. Did you every watch the OC? I'm a female Sandy Cohen.

I would consider mentoring others - they would benefit immensely from my tutelage.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:19:59

Magic circle is more than 3. No one agrees about the order. Top three sounds made up odd.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 22:20:33

You really must get to know Xenia smile I think she'll like you.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 22:21:21

He's a mover/shaker. He makes things happen. He's always got an iron in the fire.

Ok I own a very successful business (honest it is actually true) and a recent event for the local business owners (see we even have our own club smile that must prove it) we all had a laugh and joke about several phrases and the OP has used most of them.

The only one she missed is 'I am on a break from businesses at the moment, but a few things on the horizon'

The real business people, that I know, laugh at someone who describes themselves as 'movers and shakers'

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:21:58

but maybe this refines the order,shuve off clifford chance.tulisais here

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:22:49

So freshfields then.

chandellina Fri 09-Nov-12 22:22:57

Inflation is almost unavoidable in a healthy economy. Saving is important but if money is hoarded the economy dies. This is a big part of the current economy - companies are sitting on enormous cash piles because there is no confidence. A strong economy needs people and companies to have confidence to take chances.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:23:56

Re my law firm, you might be able to find the conexion mas tarde.

MooncupGoddess Fri 09-Nov-12 22:24:37

I can just imagine Allen and Overy making someone partner who mostly worked pro bono. It makes so much sense.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:24:50

pro-Bono in magic circle.no idont think so.not newly promoted partner
where did they hold your party, you know the meet,greet,and wine
a partner is a money maker,not a bleeding heart pro bono

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:25:13

Well, I'm not spending a penny until I get fair interest rates on my bank of england promises. DP keeps me in pork bellies, and I bought a lot of my power suits in last years next sale.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:26:39

Where I work, pro-bono is pro-boner. We love the fact that we're giving something back.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:26:39

hey you dont need to name firms we will all see the press release

MooncupGoddess Fri 09-Nov-12 22:26:41

Literal pork bellies (does he breed pigs?) or pork belly futures?

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:27:20

I see no-one is a linguist (I speak quite a few languages), so my identity remains safe.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 22:28:16

I've just got to say I love the way your other thread developed.
Your DP says a lot.

I've got a friend like him. He's got gold as well.

chandellina Fri 09-Nov-12 22:28:54

How can your dh be anti-capitalism and trade the markets?

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 22:29:04

is this your dp

and its a no win no fee firm isn't it?

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:29:06

Have we veered into trading places? Contains my favourite movie line ever:

Your brothers having a heart attack!

FUCK HIM

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:29:08

Literal pork bellies. We can't get enough of them. He cornered the future's market in it in the past, and developed a taste for them when a certain amount of the futures expired and we were forced to take delivery.

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 22:29:13

This is the reason I think I would prefer to keep my own counsel confused standards must be falling, do they let anyone practice law?

Yama Fri 09-Nov-12 22:30:04

I'm beginning to like you Tulisa.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:30:20

no love,thats point.new magic circle partner is everyone business.we will see press release
your firm will make sure if that, of course you know that don't you
are you mates with chelsy?shames she's not made partner yet

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:30:31

Linklaters

Pro bono? Really? Who did you shag?

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:31:44

I've already explained that my DP, whilst being anti capitalist is not adverse to proving that the markets are rigged by exploiting opportunities and doing currency arbitrage. He's taking on the belly of the beast from the inside.

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 22:32:53

Pleni estis cacas Op

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:32:55

stop yapping about him.you've just made partner magic circle
now where was your do?
how much have your fees gone up

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:35:13

So this is to be announced in April 2013 yes? Because google tells me linklaters only made up one female partner in the London office in 2012.

Whoops

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:37:37

It's hush hush at the mo, but yes.

Fees aren't increasing. We are in a deflationary environment, so I've actually pushed to offer payment for our services. We're like Swiss interest rates.

mummybare Fri 09-Nov-12 22:37:46

He's taking on the belly of the beast from the inside.

This is awesome.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 22:39:21

linklaters really.

May have to text one of my dbros best friends, he will know you.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 22:39:49

when were you told that you had 'made partner' then?

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 22:39:51

So back to the OP - do you blame feminism for the rise in house prices?

I'm sure with your exceptional legal mind, you can give us a detailed critique of the situation?

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:39:58

how did your firm fare in the roll on Friday poll
you're an inspiration,female partner
Come on where was your do?who's in your team?

chandellina Fri 09-Nov-12 22:40:35

Weren't you talking about using torches and whatnot at one point? Yet it seems you are the beasts, not taking the beast on. Not that I care, I am a capitalist.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:41:04

Please do Pamela. Whoever Dbro's best mate is, he'll have heard of me, but he's probably a subordinate of mine so he won't be privy. He may even be that bastard who was getting an eyeful earlier.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 22:41:43

Funny how the op and her dp blame feminisim. I can't imagine a female being part of a large law firm to this degree 60 years ago.

IfNotNowThenWhen Fri 09-Nov-12 22:42:51

Am I tripping?

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 22:42:56

Capitalists are pigs

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 22:43:03

Please do Pamela. Whoever Dbro's best mate is, he'll have heard of me, but he's probably a subordinate of mine so he won't be privy. He may even be that bastard who was getting an eyeful earlier.

Trust me, he isn't you subordinate. He will lol at that, well smirk.

And it wasn't him perving, trust me.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 22:43:05

Bloody feminism, wanting women to go to work and earn a living.
What were our mums thinking?

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 22:44:33

Hang on he did have a tale about a woman at work who kept 'accidentally' flashing her cleavage at the male staff then complaining about it. grin

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:45:50

That was probably me blush

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:45:56

show some respect ladies.she just made partner magic circle.plans to mentor too
we need to read and learn how this feisty talented woman made partner
not tut and bray.never mind tulisa it's just well...not often one chats to such an all rounder. linguist, magic circle partner, and squad of male subordinates

IfNotNowThenWhen Fri 09-Nov-12 22:46:01

Tulisa is like some crazed Xenia-Bot, invented by a committee funded by...Who is behind you Tulisa -Bot??
It's all a conspiracy to stir up Mumsnetters and distract them from Asda's evil empire.
Either that, or I am having an acid flashback.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:46:43

Anyway, DP and I are going to bed now. We are going to watch Vampire Diaries s04e05 and then spoon.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:47:16

see you soon tulisa

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:47:33

Spoon

Arf

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 22:47:53

I thought the magic circle was the kind of thing Paul Daniels belonged to confused

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:48:37

There are two kim

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:49:26

understandable Kim.as only someone tulisa calibre would make partner
to her magic circle is all briefings,fees,chase work
to others it's Paul daniels

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:50:36

DP is in the other magic circle. He recently showed me a trick called 'make the sausage disappear'. And just when I thought it couldn't get any better, he spooned me.

chandellina Fri 09-Nov-12 22:51:52

Wait, how can you live off the land AND walk to Silk St? Genuine question.

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 22:52:40

why is everyone purporting to be lawyers? why not astronauts or physicists or even psychiatrist. It's all so bloody predictable.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 22:52:49

Oh tulisa you make me smile and rolly eye. Infact dd thinks I have a twitch I have pulled so many different faces during this thread.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:54:49

God I've no idea. Why would anyone pretend to be a lawyer?

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 22:55:27

Please go and post something on the feminist board. smile

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 22:56:37

I'm a psychiatrist just for this evening, so keep it hush will you, it's all very top secret.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:57:00

won't hear word against tulisa.what an inspiration
where did you train tulisa

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:57:52

I work in the little known Brecon Beacons office. It's a new thing we've been developing in order to help some of our more rotund staff get a little bit more 'back to nature'. We yomp daily on pen-y-fan prior to a hard days lawing.

ArtexMonkey Fri 09-Nov-12 22:58:12

You are hilarious, who are you really?

ArtexMonkey Fri 09-Nov-12 22:58:46

It's Chaos isn't it? Go on I won't tell anyone.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 22:58:59

I trained in Rhodesia, prior to the collapse of the currency there which is one of the main reasons we are so anti money printing and prefer sound money.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:03:56

yes that overseas,where did you do conversion to fulfill uk criteria

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:04:18

I am TulisaLover. No-one else.

MooncupGoddess Fri 09-Nov-12 23:04:29

I take it you don't recognise Zimbabwe, OP?

Love the yomping up Pen y Fan before starting on your pro bono work in the Brecons.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 23:06:56

Wow - you must have trained a long time ago. Does it always take that long to become partner?

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 23:07:44

When did the Rhodesian dollar collapse?

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:07:53

Didn't have to. The firm was doing some work on setting up an acquisition for one of the big conglomerate mining firms. My talent shone through, and all the meaningless corporate rubbish was bypassed. When they saw my passion for helping those involved in the blood diamond trade there (Sierra leone is not the only place no matter what Kanye and Leo say), they had to have me. I gave them my terms and the rest it history.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:09:35

where did you do your conversion? magic circle firm outpost in brecon
wow,do you make own yoghurt too

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:10:02

Bugger, really should get off the Nexus 7 and back to VD. Damon [swoon]

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:10:28

let me spell it out,you need conversion to practise
you're in a right pickle now tulisa

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 23:12:06

Oh please let Tulsa be real. The fact that Xenia really is an island owning lawyer is one if my favourite things about MN.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 23:12:41

Its taken 32 years and you still are not legally allowed to practice here?

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:14:09

No you don't scottishmummy. the conversion necessary to fulfil the uk criteria just disappears when you have the necessary information to turn the opaque diamond trade transparent overnight in your back pocket.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 23:14:44

Can you ask your DP if he likes Northerners?

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 23:15:02

And yet it took 32 years to make partner?

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 23:15:19

That's probably news to the SRA

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:16:07

oh I love you more each post
you just sashay past those damn obstacles dontcha
yea don't let a stuffy regulatory body hold you down tulisa

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:16:18

This is the problem Pamela. We're still being supressed by the patriarchs.

He loves Northerners Kim. Some of his best friends are from there.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 23:16:36

If you are real, and I have no doubt you are, I think you might be making yourself very identifiable. Especially with a husband like yours. Somehow I don't think he's the quiet type at parties.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:17:08

The SRA can do one. Charlton Heston too.

MooncupGoddess Fri 09-Nov-12 23:17:10

<imagines disciplinary with Law Society during which Tulisa triumphantly reaches into back pocket and brandishes blood diamond dossier, to acclaim of all present>

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:18:10

That's the dream mooncup, that's the dream.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:18:30

of course she's real. ghetto girl made partner what's not to love
yea you stuck it to the sra
stuffy ole bastards bet they don't even know who dappy is

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 23:18:46

This is the problem Pamela. We're still being supressed by the patriarchs.

Not at Linklaters. It has one of the highest pertxentage of female partners. its one of their 'pledges' and ideals. So with your 'skills' you should have made partner well before 32 years.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 23:19:03

Companies house tells me there's a linklaters properties limited in breacon. Are you sure you don't work for them?

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 23:19:05

Have you got people watching you OP? hear voices? strange flashing lights, helicopters overhead, strange headaches at all, anyone following you?

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:19:25

Shit he's dead now. Feel really bad. Loved him in the Colbys.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:20:44

without googling tulisa
what's sra

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:21:04

Shit - you've discovered our from Chub. Keep it under your hat.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:21:12

front, not from.

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 23:21:25

Who's dead? you DP? who got him?

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 23:21:37
TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:21:56

The reg board. Scum of the earth in my book. We could do without interference from that lot.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:22:13

Mini- Charlton Heston.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:22:53

you're linklaters?gosh
well we will meet soon
maybe we can letdown and shake it to tinnie tempah

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:22:59

I'm on there yeah. The woman in the main picture is one of my proteges.

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 23:23:36

Christ, you are old then.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:25:01

Yup. Still got the cleavage though that keeps the young lads on their toes.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:25:47

she's you're protégé. you're to old for tulisa or tinnie tempah in that case
unless youre the granny on the dance floor

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:28:10

You're never too old for N-Dubz. I was one of the major parties in getting the incredible collaboration with Mr Hudson that was 'Playing with fire' from a mere acorn into an almighty oak of a record.

As for Tinie, I share a lot of things with him. For instance, I've been to Southampton but I've never been to Scunthorpe.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:29:23

And in my younger fashonista days, I had so many clothes I kept some at my aunts house. G-Shocks - well I've got a crazy don collection (love the radio sync ones that keep me on atomic time).

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:30:24

do you use your legal powress when dappy keeps gettin nicked?

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 23:30:46

smile

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:30:50

But back to the real issues. Feminism - shit innit.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:31:32

Dappy==tit. He's a law unto himself, if you'll pardon the pun.

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 23:31:43

Illa 'a loon

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:32:35

That double == is one for you C++ programmers. I'm a coder in my spare time - DP taught me all you need to know about template meta programming.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 23:32:36

This is chaos rotting about isn't it? Or hully.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 23:33:44

Are you being serious about feminism?

Do you think you've benefitted from the advances made in women's rights?

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:33:50

no you're poster girl for feminism.real it girl
you stick it to stuffy male regulators. you're unencumbered by rules
you're linklater partner, a mentor to other females,and unearth inhumane diamond trade

respekk

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:34:02

Shall I ask for this thread to be deleted as it's got a little off topic?

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:35:14

I'm also afraid one of the senior partners will see. I think i might have got a little loose lipped about the Brecon project.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:35:36

no way Hun
you're a fuckin legend
don't delete the thread, empower all us who worship you

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 23:35:37

You could bring it back on topic?

I thought you and DH had plans tonight.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:36:20

No kim - feminism is great - was being facetious. Vampire diaries has finished - didn't take anything in so that's another 40 mins in the morning which could have been spent doing some hardcore pro-bono.

kim147 Fri 09-Nov-12 23:36:37

I think it's probably been printed out and emailed already by someone who knows your boss.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 23:37:12

Linklaters had an outward bound in breacon last year. Google revealed a just giving page

Is that what you mean by pro bono?

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:37:15

you've never bovvered what the stuffy old solicitor gimps thought before
given your seniority this won't even merit an email
you're legend innit

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:37:29

Bugger.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:38:07

I might cut and paste to roll on Friday
they like a laugh

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 23:38:59

This could also be a ROF board invasion. It's v amusing if so

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 23:39:13

X posted

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:39:17

Oh wells, I guess it's time for the old Diamond trade paper to be brought out again. My seniority only goes so far before that old chestnut gets waved in the face of the old man.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 23:40:50

You sound like mike in the young ones with the photos of the dean

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:41:20

you're total funnys
you should enter the hot solicitor competition with you're huge missives

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:41:34

I like to think of myself as more like Rik. Anarchy is DP and mine's preferred system.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 23:41:55

What seniority? You are not even a partner yet.

I don't thing some diamond paperwork from 30 years ago gives you seniority.

BelleDameSansMerci Fri 09-Nov-12 23:42:26

Oh pleeeeeease be Chaos or Hully...

MiniTheMinx Fri 09-Nov-12 23:42:40

The rule of law has no place in anarchy confused

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:43:30

Many would disagree with you Pamela. It has some interesting information about activities in Siberia. I've spent time in Antwerp. I know how it rolls.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:43:59

can I nominate you as hot solicitor
all you haters shuuuuuuuut up.tulisa is total legend.she's a partner innit

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:44:11

Not Chaos or Hully. Tu-Lis-a Lo-ver. That's me.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 23:45:28

I hope it isn't chaos or Hully. I hope it's a pissed magic circle partner in waiting who will wake up tomorrow and go oh fuuuuuck

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:45:55

Bedtime. Got to get up early for a bracing run around the black mountains.

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:46:45

I don't drink Chub, so that blows your theory. Very much an adam's ale girl.

Chubfuddler Fri 09-Nov-12 23:47:05

Mwaah Bon nuit

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 23:47:49

So being involved with black market diamonds 30 years ago gives you seniority but not partnership?

Very unlikely.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:47:50

no one least of all tulisa will regret this thread.it's priceless
a humane,and feisty partner who mentors
hell you make Michelle Obama look like a dinner lady

TulisaLover Fri 09-Nov-12 23:52:11

Obama is a puppet of the elite. Incredible speaker, but a marionette none the less. Michelle sold out big time.

scottishmummy Fri 09-Nov-12 23:54:53

don't sweat it about this post.you see deleting it doesn't really delete
it will forever be a pleasure and talking point
linklater partner,your multilingual skills,r&b ghetto queen, too cool for kanye type vibe

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Fri 09-Nov-12 23:58:46

Of course Obama is a puppet. That's the jobs description, isn't it?

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 00:00:14

True. looking forward to seeing how the daytime crowd react to a 300 post thread on a serious topic which consists mainly of interrogation bout myself and dps alternative lifestyle.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 00:01:10

night all - really this time.

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 00:02:13

I believe ya tulisa.won't let any haters diss you
you're an inspiration
hell woman like you should do coaching.then we'd all benefit

Chubfuddler Sat 10-Nov-12 00:07:49

You're about as alternative as cliff Richard.

JessePinkman Sat 10-Nov-12 00:08:26

AnnieLobesedar, you can't have careless lending without careless borrowing. Nobody made anybody borrow more than they could afford.

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 00:09:38

I haven't read the whole thread.

I agree with your DP, Tulisa. This is something I predicted, ranted about muchly in letters to newspapers and politicians and was comprehensively put down for in feminist meetings. The union movement was alert to the issue but was declawed by the same administration that deregulated banking and saw houses become 'investments'.

The original articles of feminism (sorry, cba to look up proper name & date) were very big on free childcare for all - that is, state and/or employer funded provision. It was not realised at the time that so many women would prefer to stay at home as mothers; women's liberation developed in unpredictable ways, and this is one of the most fundamental.

As things stand, I agree wholeheartedly with you & DP that all responsibilities should be equally distributed between a couple, including parental leave and working adjustments. Some of the Scandinavian countries make it compulsory for both parents to take full, equal, parental leave. That would be a good start.

Additionally - with apologies for sounding like Xenia wink - if women weren't so flippin' eager to make all the concessions to family life, things would be a darn sight more equal. When governments won't legislate, markets dictate. Whilst a male workforce exists, which can afford to be wholly committed to the job thanks to a Little Woman at home, employers will carry on preferring male workers.

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 00:10:35

YABU to say feminism set rules, though! I wish!!

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 00:17:12

Nobody made anybody borrow more than they could afford.

We could afford it then. You could put down a 5% or 10% deposit and get a smart-arse mortgage for way less than the rent on the same place. If you remember, most of these smartarse schemes later fell foul of mis-selling judgements, but not before half the country was in negative equity with their mortgage lenders demanding 5 times the monthly payments they had originally set out.

JessePinkman Sat 10-Nov-12 00:41:55

Don't be silly though. We all had to do the old calculators what if interest rates went back up to 10% or 15%.

The banks didn't make you borrow.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 08:52:49

thank you garlic! I knew dp was right, even though he could have phrased it better.

kim147 Sat 10-Nov-12 09:08:51

" Nobody made anybody borrow more than they could afford."

That's not the fault of feminism - is it?
If anything, it's the fault of the capitalist society we live in, trying to get as into as much debt as possible.

Irresponsible lending by the banks and irresponsible borrowing by people. Plus people buying into the market to get a quick return on an investment.

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 09:26:01

tulisa,stop yapping about dp.you are high flyer lawyer
no need for you to refer to him,he's small fish compared to you Hun
you're the brains,do tell us about quantitative easing

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 09:34:59

qe, again is more theft from savers to bail out the idiots who overborrowed. un one of my previous jobs, I worked very closely with Ben bernanke. guys a tool.

Chubfuddler Sat 10-Nov-12 09:39:04

I still want to hear more about last years next suits. I refuse to believe anyone in the magic circle is allowed to wear next polyester - some sort of povo alarm would probably go off

PeshwariNaan Sat 10-Nov-12 09:41:27

Yes, because "feminism" is in charge of the government, is a single unit and can set economic rules for everyone. hmm

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 09:49:49

The frugal nature of our lives comes from our deep understanding of Plato and his works. Tulisa is a modern philosophers - I believe a direct descendent of euripedes. I bargained 79 percent off a superb pant suit in the next sake that had my female colleagues raging with jealously and male ones hot under the collar.

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 09:50:27

you're like ghetto da lawyer
spill beans then.sir mervyn king, are you and he as one on qe?
has the qe input really increased spending,what outcome measures did you use

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 09:52:50

hehe,pant suit in Scottish parlance obviously has v different meaning
pant suit would be yer chuddies and they suited you
one vpcould say twas a nice pant on

noviceoftheday Sat 10-Nov-12 09:57:30

This thread has been such a treat on a miserable Saturday morning.

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 10:00:47

I may well become a fan of tulisa
she's a goddess,multilingual,professional, and despite that still shops in next

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 10:01:47

Dp says King is only now speaking truthfully knowing he is about to retire. QE had maintained asset prices - nothing else. You will not get savers spending no matter how much you punish it. We 'd rather see it burn then let the speculators and over indebted win by making us join their filthy debt debauchery.

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 10:05:24

now tulisa,stop being wee wifey and dp says dis,dp says dat
youre a linklater partner (pending press release)
you don't need to refer to him.he's small fry

Trills Sat 10-Nov-12 10:12:50

I think you are misunderstanding what feminism is.

It is the belief that people should be treated equally, valued equally , and given equal opportunities, regardless of their sex/gender.

It's not the kind of entity that is in any shape to "think about consequences" and "set out rules".

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 10:13:42

Dp and I for the most part speak as one. All the best power couples find a harmonious voice.

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 10:16:00

eh,hang on I've had the feminist rule book speech on mn
you're not feminist if dont fulfilf x,y,z ideological criteria
so no.I've experriencec the rules and expectations speech.and if deviate then it's all what about da menz, mra, antifeminist

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 10:19:15

Well if feminism isn't the kind if entity that thinks about consequences before defining its acceptance criteria, then maybe it needs to take a different path in future. I am a chess player of grandmaster level and assure you, before I n
move king to bishop 4, every possible circumstances had been analysed and accounted for. Feminism would do well to do the same.

Trills Sat 10-Nov-12 10:22:00

Feminism can't think about anything
It can't take a path
It is set of beliefs

I didn't read the whole thread before I posted that and now I see that this has really gone quite bonkers.

I miss GabbyLoggon.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 10:25:44

if feminism cannot think, how can it be?

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 10:26:24

feminists habitually discuss ideological consequences,1st wave vs 3rd wave
can you be a feminist pole dancer enacting own choice?
tulisa how did I nit guess you'd be chess master?

Trills Sat 10-Nov-12 10:28:03

Descartes walks into a bar, orders a beer, drinks it.
He orders another beer, drinks it.
He orders another beer, drinks it.
He's beginning to feel a bit worse for wear (Descartes doesn't have the best alcohol tolerance).
The barman says "Another?"
Descartes says "I think not" and promptly disappears.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 10:29:29

I have been to pole dancing classes at a local gym. Not once wad there a discussion of feminist ideology there. We were far too busy making like Jessie Spano in her showgirls guise.

Chubfuddler Sat 10-Nov-12 10:30:53

Tulsa as direct descendant of euripedes.

You are quite wonderful op

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 10:33:15

Three beers is enough for anyone, if we are talking pints. After that amount of liquid I feel like I'm going to be sick. Descartes showed excellent judgement.

MiniTheMinx Sat 10-Nov-12 11:04:15

if feminism cannot think, how can it be?

Feminism is the totality of it's individual parts, ie feminists. Feminists think, feminism doesn't.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 11:23:04

Well I think, therefore I am. If feminism doesn't adhere to that basic principal, it clearly ceases to exist.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 11:29:38

Also you say feminism is the totality of its parts, the individual feminists. Well each of them thinks. so you seem to be arguing that the sum of a sequence of thinkers is a non thinking entity. That is flying in the face of pure maths, which I am very adept at.

Trills Sat 10-Nov-12 11:29:41

Just like Descartes in the pub.

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 13:52:11

Feminism is the philosophy, not the philosopher.

I am really rather loving your posts!

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 14:00:36

++ feminism exists because the collective voice of women goes unheard by policy makers. Thus, feminism "setting rules" would be oxymoronic.

Jesse - I take your point, and expressed mine very badly. Us little folks are forced to do what policy dictates, whether or not we foresee pitfalls, because we are living lives not sitting untouched in cloud castles.

hackmum Sat 10-Nov-12 14:07:55

What your DP says here:

"Both parents earning an income meant banks salivated and started lending for homes based on both. This has forced up prices to cover this as house prices are a function of the amount being lent."

is true, but not original. The point has been made many times, by many people. Hey, I've even made it myself.

But to say "feminism should have laid down some rules" is nonsensical. Feminism is a philosophy, like socialism or humanism or liberalism - it's quite incapable of setting down rules. And in any case, feminism is a very broad church, full of people with very different ideas about what it means. What exactly is your DP saying - that if married women wanted to work, they should insist on their husbands staying at home and doing the housework and childcare? I can't see many men falling over themselves to do that. Or perhaps he means, "If men refuse to stay at home, then women should carry on staying at home as they always have done." So, back to square one.

We all make decisions that work for us. Once married women and in particular mothers started to enter the workforce in large numbers, none of them was going to think, "Hang on, I'd better stay at home. If we both go out to work, that's going to push up house prices for other people."

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 14:15:11

xposts, hackmum smile

kim147 Sat 10-Nov-12 14:19:17

I'm sure the OP knows that.
She's a hgh flying corporate Lawyer who's about to be made partner, with a lot of money in the bank, she's multlingual, computer programming chess grandmaster with a decent cleavage- so I'm sure she's intelligent enough to understand exactly how the system works.

Did I miss anything out smile

EduCated Sat 10-Nov-12 14:41:25

I can't work out who you are. You're good, so you must be someone. But the spelling's too good for Chaos.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 14:44:48

Kim...the gold, the silver, the self sufficient lifestyle....I could go on but I don't want to be accused of stealth boasting. The money in the bank is electronic promises which I don't hold much stock in.

Hackmum - DP stated that under the best circumstances, everything should be shared. One parent staying at home is non ideal.

EduCated Sat 10-Nov-12 14:46:46

Could we get your DP in for a webchat? It would be amazing. I think it would be the epiphany I've been waiting for all my life.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 14:49:31

To be frank garlic, I think the ruling classes don't listen to men OR women really. The agenda is set according to what will make them richer, and throw just enough crumbs such that the ferral hordes will not rise. DP said as much earlier - you just have to look at the iPad salivation to see that all the lumpenproletariat want is their Jobsian Kool-Aid.

DP and I have been buying up G4S shares like nobody's business in the recent price dips - it's all a smokescreen as we'll soon see gated compounds for the truly wealthy.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 14:50:55

I'll ask DP later...perhaps I could start a thread

"Am I being unreasonable....to ask you to come and get the pearls of DP's wisdom?"

EduCated Sat 10-Nov-12 14:52:15

Oh do, please do. But not for 10 hours or so, I need to sleep.

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 15:20:49

DP and I have been buying up G4S shares like nobody's business in the recent price dips - Ha, so would I have been if I still had any money! It goes against all my principles to buy shares in entities I despise, but that one's going to profit hugely from human misery.

Mind you, I did buy a small block of shares in Canary Wharf when I worked there ... I was screamingly miserable in my job, so I labelled one of the polished granite paving stones "mine" and that cheered me up slightly as I came out of the DLR station each morning.

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 15:26:39

I can't work out who you are.

Xenia and Gabby on a boozy day out smile

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 15:32:07

Buying shares in entities you despise is a hedge against the non existence of heaven according to DP. He says that if God exists, he will understand your decision provided you can show your working in the form of a probability distribution. Luckily, we're both maths whizzes.

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 15:35:30

Is there an end to your talents? confused
Perhaps you can't sing? Or crochet?
(I can't do either, btw, and am shit at chess too.)

Why is god assumed to be male?

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 15:55:17

People have likened my voice to katherine Jenkins crossed with Aretha Franklin, with a soupçon of Kenny Rogers - so yes, I like to give the vocal chords a good work out once in a while with a refreshing rendition of Michael-row-the-boat-ashore.

Thinking about it, the only thing I cannot do is leave the house without checking it's locked at least three times. Oh and I never mastered the back flip either - damn that Bear Grylls.

God isn't necessarily male, don't be nit picky - I was merely saving time.

socharlotte Sat 10-Nov-12 17:35:46

You are right OP I've been saying it for years.

socharlotte Sat 10-Nov-12 17:36:30

The 'choice' for a mother to work has become a necessity.

PosieParker Sat 10-Nov-12 17:45:11

I think we can blame capitalism not feminism. You can't say because someone took advantage (capitalism) of a larger income and therefore borrowing that you can blame the people who wanted equality.

And Feminists have had to play the long game, one small step at a time. Would everyone rather that women didn't work?

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 18:00:55

not true Charlotte,as so many precious moments mamas attest they don't want/need to work
there is no necessity or compulsion to work,can be housewife if so desires
there's no govt squad dragging the housewives out their front rooms to work

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 18:02:17

What the unions wanted, Posie, was parental rights for both parents and compulsory childcare provision. This would, however, have held back wage increases - or so it could be argued. Much better for the banks to have millions of young couples signing over their futures on the promise of increased returns on property. The fact that most have to live in the property, therefore it's only an asset in terms of continued borrowing capacity, wasn't something they wanted to think about. Good news for banks, though.

PosieParker Sat 10-Nov-12 18:02:46

Ah I love my precious moments, they are so precious.

PosieParker Sat 10-Nov-12 18:03:50

But they asked and did not get, right? Should they have settled in hindsight? (genuine not arsy question)

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 18:06:02

And the fact is that because prices are set at the margin, if just one couple takes up the offer of lending based on two full time incomes, then that sets a new precedent. Thus even those couples who want to share childcare are forced to also pay the new price if they want to get on the mythical 'ladder'. People are very quick to sign up to their own slavery unfortunately.

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 18:08:23

precious moments mamas attest they don't want/need to work

They have to be attached to the Bank Of Penis, though, generally speaking. If they are in London, they need a rather large account with him.

XH1 and I needed to be in London for our careers. It was not possible to find a place - for rent or mortgage - that was affordable on just one of our salaries. In fact, we squatted for the first six months in hopes of being able to achieve this (we couldn't, so we bought). I know this was a long time ago but am pretty sure it's the same now, or worse.

PosieParker Sat 10-Nov-12 18:12:44

So what is the answer to people who actually want, and can afford, to spend time with their own children? As I did, the thought of someone else spending the day with my child whilst I worked was something I couldn't imagine. Why is that wrong? Do I get more than one chance to see my child grow? No. And I am not saying if you work you don't see your child, but obviosuly not as much!

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 18:15:46

Posie - grin @ precious moments. This was all happening at the same time as Thatcher came into office. We all know how she dealt with the unions, and whether she prioritised banks above people ... ! We didn't even get guaranteed maternity leave until 1994, remember.

YY, Tulisa, re precedent and market developments.

44SoStartingOver Sat 10-Nov-12 18:19:41

Bearing in mind a woman could not even apply for credit or a mortgage in her own right until 1971, it is hardly surprising that society started to change when women were no longer treated as children by banks.

However, I thinkit is pretty obvious that a society that behaves as if ten year olds are young adults, 35 year olds are teenagers and no one can afford to buy a flat alone, is going to run into trouble!

garlicbaguette Sat 10-Nov-12 18:20:04

The privilege of choosing exactly what to do for a living is afforded to relatively few. If you "want and can afford" to raise your children personally, that's your choice and your good fortune. I've never been able to afford what I wanted - I may prefer to write novels all day, but that doesn't confer the right to.

What do you mean, "what's the answer" to you?

PosieParker Sat 10-Nov-12 18:37:53

I think I was responding to your Bank of Penis!!

It's a whole other thread, I guess. But I would love to know, aside from Xenia who was able to have uber uber choices, how does a low paid or even medium paid woman make the necessary financial arrangements to be able to stay at home without then getting trapped as 'wifey' types.

Don't worry it is a whole other thread.

MooncupGoddess Sat 10-Nov-12 18:49:46

This is the thread that keeps on giving.

"you just have to look at the iPad salivation to see that all the lumpenproletariat want is their Jobsian Kool-Aid." OP - this is such a great line that I think I might steal it and use it as my own. Hope your DP doesn't mind.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 18:55:46

He says feel free. I may actually turn my hand to writing at some point, it's the one area which my considerable talents haven't been commercially exploited. If only I could master the use of the apostrophe.

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 19:19:10

do stop yapping on dp.you're like an earnest school girl
compose posts in 1st person,stop being the gushy girlfriend
you're an accomplished lawyer (soon to be linklater partner),pole dancer,chess master.you dont need to habitually define self by man your boffing

worklifedifficult Sat 10-Nov-12 20:12:29

Wow!!!! a soon to be Linklaters Partner really... that's quite scary that someone would post that level of person info now-a-days.

I was unfortunate enough to have a mother who broke the glass ceiling in private investment banking in the 80's. She made a massive mistake in giving out some person info at one point and the fella (a potential client) stalked her from London, to Boston and finally to Geneva when she managed to get the Swiss Cops involved.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 20:18:39

Part of my multitasking today has been damage mitigation. I've already made the necessary arrangements regarding the circumstances surrounding my online out-ing, and anything that is said is off recordum.

I have friends who handle my Swiss affairs - I've worked closely with the SNB in the past and it's well understood that it offers a truly safe haven for me if there is any funny business.

SomersetONeil Sat 10-Nov-12 20:34:46

"Trust me, he isn't you subordinate. He will lol at that, well smirk.

^And it wasn't him perving, trust me.^"

Pamela, I'm wondering if your DBro's best friend is my DBro...?! shock hmm

worklifedifficult Sat 10-Nov-12 21:17:03

but it is on record and the damage has been done... betcha there's a few Linklaters staff who are MNers plus consider Joe Nutter picks up on this thread and other stuff you've said and follows though with the next female linklaters partner (that's not you) to be appointed - how would you repair that? That's would be an interesting conundrum especially given that this is now in the public domain I'd better set up a hashtag for this when it hits the press.

jellybeans Sat 10-Nov-12 21:22:58

Only read OP. I think it is a very good point quoted in the OP. Two wages has just increased house prices and the need to both work. I agree that IF both parents do work it should be both part time rather than having to both work full time to pay the basics. What is next, both work 24 hours a day.. I am a SAHM and very happy but have worked in the past. I don't care what extreme feminists think of that because they often don't make sense to me anyway. Playing down the differences and importance of mothers tends to be their game. Yet where are all the female builders/roofers etc if men and women want the same things? If you think about it deep enough it doesn't add up.

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 21:23:57

in fairness this is so camp and daft it's clearly made up.tulisa a great raconteur
let's face it tulisa hardly besmirching the magic circle or linklater good name
i do believe even solicitors have a funny gland.Susan calman was solicitor

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 21:25:19

If you are trying to scare me into saying I'm a wind up merchant, then consider yourself victorious! I am a writer who utilises forums to stimulate creativity, and nothing more than that. I apologise for any offence or misdirection. I'm also penniless, hence I spend my evenings scouring the shelves of supermarkets for cheap food. Erm - that's on the record!

Hope you all had fun and once again, apologies for any offence caused.

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 21:27:33

tulisa you've been a fine sport,and no it was never credible,but was v funny
I think warning you off is bit deluded.no don't see linklaters sending in the heavies
v v funny.of course we all knew was good laugh.I enjoyed your riposte

Chubfuddler Sat 10-Nov-12 21:28:02

Oh tulisa hq will have a sense of humour fail and delete now.

You are genius

< you ROF don't you? You must do>

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 21:29:35

I hope no one is professionally offended
you are v v funny

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 21:32:14

Thanks a lot scottishmummy.

I might as well add that I am a wannabe writer and not a professional and if anyone possibly thinks I have any talent, please let me know!

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 21:34:39

I had never seen or heard of ROF until yesterday. Who know what will happen there in the future :-)

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 21:34:56

careful not to sound too brown nosed,but I think you're v funny
it was good laugh,and in no way was anyone misled or duped
best wishes whatever you chose

worklifedifficult Sat 10-Nov-12 21:40:02

When I went for a job interview, the MD asked me what would he find out about me if he googled me. I said to him absolutely nothing under my RL name. I then said to him on the other hand, after looking at Facebook, Linkedin, twitter and your blogs, I know you like playing the guitar, you've just bought yourself a spiffy AV system, you live in X town and you have a Daughter and Son who are the same ages as mine and these are their names (I'd done my pre interview research not only on the company but on the people as well). His jaw dropped - I got the job.

DW when to a managerial position at an on-line security company, they were shocked that they could find nothing about her on-line.

It maybe shits and giggles but there can be consequences - we've all seen the stories in the metro and evening standard.

I am sorry that I've put a downer on this - but please people, do take care

kim147 Sat 10-Nov-12 21:48:32

Still say you should post on the Feminist board. You'd give Xenia a run for her money.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 21:48:44

No, you make a fabulous, timely and highly accurate point worklife. It would be a shame (for a silly person like myself) for any harmless light mischief making to be rendered redundant by the nature of today's information rich world, but equally causing pain for others is not in any way in my nature, and I'd hate to think that could happen due to my actions.

scottishmummy Sat 10-Nov-12 21:48:44

look,tulisa isn't lawyer,she a witty writer.doh as if it needed spelling out.
she not chess master,or a pole dancer,or an economist
I agree professionally one does need to be circumspect but come don't put frighteners on her

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 21:49:21

So point well received - thanks.

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 21:52:14

Well.....I am good at chess, not too shabby with numbers and very interested in economics. I would also love to pole dance. But (to fully wreck the illusion) I am also a bloke and there aren't any classes round here. I once went to a Zumba class though - a frightening experience that I haven't yet repeated.

kim147 Sat 10-Nov-12 21:56:26

MNHQ are going to love you smile

TulisaLover Sat 10-Nov-12 21:57:30

In what way <looks for scared emoticon/>

Tweasels Sat 10-Nov-12 21:59:18

Bows down to Tulisalover.

Made my day you have.

Change names and come back

Chubfuddler Sat 10-Nov-12 21:59:25

BIG DELETE BUTTON

Don't worry they're probably busy