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(454 Posts)
KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 19:15:05

Im ask­ing for advice and opin­ions on how you would han­dle this sit­u­a­tion

My son, 19, left col­lege ear­lier this year and even­tu­ally signed on at the end of August when the casual work he had at his Uncles café dried up and all his job appli­ca­tions were unsuc­cess­ful

Since then he has been sanc­tioned twice (once for being 3 mins late to a group ses­sion at no fault of his own , but which I think fuelled his atti­tude ‘of you have treated me unfairly so why should I respect you ‘atti­tude’

They then after the sanc­tion rec­om­mended him for ‘a work place­ment’ and he went to the com­pany (JHP) for an ini­tial inter­view and the guy there told him your here and you’ve been put on a work place­ment ‘as a pun­ish­ment’

He, rightly or wrongly walked out and said some­thing along the lines ‘being pun­ished for being 3 mins late to a group who’s best advice on how to find a job was ‘look on the inter­net for vacan­cies’

He also asked ‘if’ work place­ments were the great gov­ern­ment scheme to help peo­ple into work why are you admit­ting you are putting me on this for pun­ish­ment (his think­ing here was if he hadn’t been 3 mins late he would not have been referred for a work place­ment)

. he also asked ‘If I go and stick price labels on stuff at the back of a char­ity shop for a month do you really think I’d put that on my CV when I have skills and qual­i­fi­ca­tions already , what does that say about me other than I was unem­ployed and put on a workscheme’

They then sanc­tioned his job seek­ers again.….then sus­pended it indef­i­nitely . Then sent him p45 form say­ing he was obvi­ously not enti­tled to JSA as he did not want a job!!!!!!

We now have Alas­dair Dar­ling MP , and Andrew Burns leader of the Edin­burgh coun­cil involved too but , but this is my point.….….….….….….…

I cre­ated in part his atti­tude towards the DWP, Job Cen­tres and work place­ments so should I just suck it up and con­tinue pay­ing for him (food, travel, roof over his head, clothes, hob­bies etc) or should should I say .…’re unem­ployed and until you get the means to sup­port your­self your going have to suck it up and play ball with what­ever they want you to do for £56 a week

I’d really appre­ci­ate some views , thanks coz I’m torn between going ‘gonna my son It is shit, it wrong and I’ll sup­port you’ and ‘Well you need to stand on your two feet

LucyLastik Thu 08-Nov-12 19:17:18

Why did he leave college?

VirginiaDare Thu 08-Nov-12 19:18:43

He sounds a bit workshy and stroppy. Was he really only 3 mins late, or is that what he told you? And how was it not his fault he was late?

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 19:19:53

He left college bcaus h course came to an end and he graduated

INeedThatForkOff Thu 08-Nov-12 19:20:27

Workshy? This appears to be a Workfare-type placement - why wouldn't he resent it?

Purple2012 Thu 08-Nov-12 19:21:40

sticking labels on stuff in a charity shop does not scream 'im umemployed and have been put on a work scheme'. To me it woukd show there is a person who is willing to work to gain as much experience as possible.

to be honest, from what you have written his attitude stinks.

ImperialBlether Thu 08-Nov-12 19:21:53

I think he sounds really entitled, to be honest. Did he think everyone would be falling over themselves to employ him when he left college early? It sounds as though he has a bad attitude.

If you now 'reward' him financially for this cock up, then you are authorising him to continue with his attitude.

You should tell him to sort himself out immediately and not give him money in the meantime unless it's to get to an interview.

Sorry to be harsh; I have a son that age and I think if you're soft, you are literally ruining them.

It's a conundrum. On one hand he needs to learn to deal with how things work and consequences. On the other hand, Workfare stinks. He needs to apply for everything, treat that like a full-time job. If he does that, could you sub him as long as he does?

lucidlady Thu 08-Nov-12 19:24:21

Why have you got an MP and the council involved? I'd har told him to get a grip. And what do you mean you created his attitude?

MammaTJ Thu 08-Nov-12 19:26:13

It seems from the OPs second post he did not leave college early!!!

He does need to put his head down and get on with it.

LFCisTarkaDahl Thu 08-Nov-12 19:26:19

Was the 3 minutes really not his fault?

As I always think getting somewhere early just in case is a good idea.

I'd give him nothing and be lecturing him constant about how he can turn working in a charity shop to his advantage - there are plenty of transferable skills.

He sounds entitled and pissed off - and I'd have him out the house every morning at 9am looking for work.

nocake Thu 08-Nov-12 19:27:56

I'm an experienced and highly qualified IT professional. When I was made redundant I worked in a warehouse sorting widgets for a few days because it was a job. I didn't consider myself too good to do it and I'm massively better qualified than your DS. He needs a good dose of humility and to learn that nothing gets handed to you on a plate. He also needs to learn that sometimes you just have to work with the system even though you think it's stupid. I signed on when I was made redundant and jumped through all the hoops even though I knew they'd never find me a job.

ImperialBlether Thu 08-Nov-12 19:29:42

Deborah Meaden off Dragons' Den was talking on the radio a few months ago. She said that she had interviewed loads of new graduates who'd left university a year or two ago and had looked for management jobs since then. They wanted to go in at that level because they thought they were worth it, that their degree was enough to tell an employer they were special enough.

She said she wanted hard workers. She was asked what she'd say if someone had worked for the last two years at McDonald's cleaning the toilets and she said she would think they were fantastic, that they were really hard working and independent. She said it's those who sit there applying for jobs and living off their parents that she couldn't stand.

Your son needs to get any experience he can.

redexpat Thu 08-Nov-12 19:29:48

He has to play ball. But the staff are under tremendous pressure to give out sanctions (because they save money).

Walking out of a placement on the grounds of what one person said to him is pretty stupid. Sticking labels on stuff at the back of a charity shop says that he is willing to knuckle down and do anything. It would also give him experience of being in a working environment and forming relations with other volunteers. I don't understand why your son can't see that skills and qualifications aren't enough. You need experience.

He needs to get to appointments on time, allowing extra time for delays, and see things through.

whatsforyou Thu 08-Nov-12 19:31:59

I think Workfare stinks and the groups to get you back to work are hopeless and the people who stop your benefit at the drop of a hat are VVVunreasonable.....but if you're unemployed and claiming benefits then you have to suck it up. that's not to say he can't continue with complaining to MPs and whoever else about how bad the system is but in the meantime he has to knuckle down and do what everyone else on benefits who doesn't have the luxury of a Mum to sub them if they don't fancy the work placement
I do think that you would be encouraging a very unhelpful attitude in your son, I having principles and taking a stand is all very honourable and admirable but doing it when funded by the bank of Mum does make it somewhat easier. Would he take the same very firm stance about these schemes and be so outspoken if it meant he couldn't afford to pay his gas bill or buy his food for the week hmm

Himalaya Thu 08-Nov-12 19:32:00

What does he want to do?

It seems like you and he are stuck in a combative relationship with the JS people which at best will be resolved and he will get put back on JSA, and at worst will continue as it is.

But either way they are probably not in a position to help him get the job he wants - as both you and he recognise -So it is up to you and him to come up with a plan to do that, rather than focus your energy on the fight with with the JS.

His attitude will do him no favours with future employers. They can pick and choose, and they're not going to choose those who are late or arrogant. Sorry

Tuttutitlookslikerain Thu 08-Nov-12 19:38:41

His attitude absolutely stinks IMVHO.

My DS1 lost his weekend job earlier in August because the business went bankrupt. He'd love to work, he is actively looking for another part time job, whilst studying really hard for his A levels. We live in the smallest county in England where jobs are few and far between, but he keeps trying, he narrowly missed out on two jobs last week.

I would be giving him nothing and I would be sending him out of the door every day at 9am looking for work!

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 19:55:54

the 3 minuties really wasn't his fault.

He was in good time with 20 mins to spare (I can vouch for this as he left the house 1 hour before for what normally be a 20 min Jourey .

There was an an accident on the main road Princes Street Edinburgh and the bus man would not let him of the bus the bus because they ere not at a valid 'bus stop'

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 19:57:17


At which point he explained and profusely apologised...?

pjmama Thu 08-Nov-12 20:02:46

He's 19 and an adult and needs to sort himself out. Sounds like he's got some hard lessons to learn, one of which being that flouncing doesn't get you very far in life.

whois Thu 08-Nov-12 20:05:00

Sometimes, even tho you have been treated unfairly you jus have to suck it up and jump through some hoops with a good attitude for long term gain.

Your son sounds like a right twat, walking off the placement like that. Really immature and stroppy.

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 20:09:23

No whois he is not a right twat ,,,,,,,,just a 19 year old boy scared skint and unemployed

StuntGirl Thu 08-Nov-12 20:12:42

What whois said.

Tweasels Thu 08-Nov-12 20:15:42

Rather than focussing on his treatment by the jobcentre, which doesn't surprise me. They can be officious. Like all organisations some great staff, some truly terrible ones.

Why not throw all your time and energy into helping him find work. There are many jobs out there if he's willing.

Fairenuff Thu 08-Nov-12 20:17:49

He, rightly or wrongly walked out

What do you mean 'rightly or wrongly'? It was clearly wrongly. Does he get this attitude from you?

Himalaya Thu 08-Nov-12 20:19:54

What Twesels said.

Kepler - what did he study at College? What does he want to do?

There is some interesting stuff online about starting wages depending on education level. University/College grads only earn more than people with no qualifications at all. Everyone else, school leavers, trades etc. earn more than them. Partially as they will have more experience (because of less time in education) and partially because employers want practical skills/enthusiasm/hard work from their young workers rather than paper qualifications. As you get older a degree will mean higher wages but at the beginning you should expect to earn less.

karron Thu 08-Nov-12 20:22:07

Friend did unpaid work placement under labours back to work type scheme (can't remember proper name) at a charity after completing their degree. Then got job there on bottom rung but quickly worked their way up to management level and is now earning 40k+. So he's being unreasonable particularly with his too good for it attitude.

1sassylassy Thu 08-Nov-12 20:24:25

OP,can your ds register with some recruitment agencies,my ds did this doing temporary work,one full day paid more than the dole did in a week,the company he temped for eventually took him on and trained him up.Hew would have to be flexible and prepared to work at short notice ,hope he finds work soon.

StrawberryMojito Thu 08-Nov-12 20:25:30

He is learning a life lesson that maybe you should have taught him...sometimes if you want to get on or get by you just have to say how high when told to jump.

When he walked out of that work placement, you should have sent him straight back there with his tail between his legs not argued his case to an MP. Who cares why he was given the work placement, he should have made the best of it. I don't blame them for sanctioning him in that instance.

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 20:25:49

I don't believe him sorry

Sanctioned for being 3 minutes late?

Nope, not buying it.

procrastinor Thu 08-Nov-12 20:26:41

Sorry but he really isn't helping himself. He needs to suck it up and realise that if he expects money (from either the JSA or a job) then sometimes you just have to bite your tongue and get your head down.

If I go and stick price labels on stuff at the back of a char­ity shop for a month do you really think I’d put that on my CV when I have skills and qual­i­fications already sounds so entitled. It really screams that he thinks that he's better than other people. If that was the only job going, paying £56 per week, it implies that he would turn it down as its beneath him. so yeah, I can see how they would think he doesn't actually want a job.

He does realise that we are in a recession (practically speaking)?!

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 20:26:43

hahaha there are many jobs out there there many jobs out there for a 19 year old .................turns that whould be be no

Viviennemary Thu 08-Nov-12 20:27:38

You won't beat these people at the job centres. They have their rules and stick by them. If he wants his unemployment benefit then he will have to play by their rules. Unless Alistair Darling can persuade them otherwise. But I think he does have to learn that life isn't always fair and the best way to deal with this isn't to go off in a strop.

He should have done his charity shop work with a good grace. There is no shame in helping a charity.

procrastinor Thu 08-Nov-12 20:28:53

kelper that's the point surely. There are hardly any jobs for anyone so as a 19 yr old he needs to do what is necessary to either improve his skills (as it obviously isn't enough to get him a job) or realise that JSA is not dished out willy nilly.

MoomieAndFreddie Thu 08-Nov-12 20:28:55

IME The jobcentre are mainly staffed by real twats though. (No offence to anyone on here who works there but IME most of them are, sorry)

So I can't blame your son for being pissed off with them and not wanting to dance to their silly tunes. hmm work "experience" my arse - slave labour more like.

However, he should definitely be job hunting and i don't think you should subsidize him whatsoever, tbh my own parents did that for me when i was an arrogant, entitled 19 year old thinking i was too good for work blush and it didn't get me very far.

Sirzy Thu 08-Nov-12 20:29:27

So what is he doing with his time now? Is he working his hardest to find employment and doing voluntary work to gain experience or is he sitting on his backside?

That would make a big difference to how much help I would give.

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 20:31:00

And when he appealed the sanction and told them there was an accident on the main road Princes Street Edinburgh, that caused him to be 3 minutes late I'm sure they would have accepted that.

Are you sure he didn't use it as an excuse and dawdle off somewhere else?

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 20:31:27

I've seen they letter for him being sanctioned for being 3 mins late , and yes sadly that it true , however do you not think I was the first person to tell if to get his act together

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 20:32:56

Then if they're admitting that sanction and the appeal has failed, why not go to the local paper?

Sirzy Thu 08-Nov-12 20:33:41

Was it the first time he had been late?

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 20:36:48

NO Worraliberty they did not except that ..........and he did not dwadle off somewhere else .....

People like you are the exact reason our sons and daughters age 19 get met with no-one believing them

If you want proof of my sons delay then just look up The Edinburgh Evening News and the story of the crash is well covered

dysfunctionalme Thu 08-Nov-12 20:36:58

I think he needs to get places on time (aim for early) and keep his mouth shut. He can voice opinions when he gets home but his priority needs to be to suck it up when looking for work and working.

justmyview Thu 08-Nov-12 20:37:00

Like you, I live in Edinburgh. When I was made redundant I signed on and did everything I was asked to do by Job Centre. I found them helpful, sympathetic and supportive every step of the way, perhaps because I co-operated fully.

Your son sounds entitled to me. If I'd been asked to work in a charity shop, I would have done it gladly

OpheliaPayneAgain Thu 08-Nov-12 20:37:13

All the things he's been sent o are valid: all work placements have value, it might not seem it but they do enhance CVs - timekeeping (you son needs a little bit of that) team work ( he needs to improve that), a can-do attitude (Enough said there) and perhaps using his initiative, devising better working processes.

A 19yo boy? I think you'll find he's a man albeit one with a massive attitude problem with authority.

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 20:42:10

he was told he was being put on a work placement as 'a punishment'

EverybodysSpookyEyed Thu 08-Nov-12 20:42:33

‘If I go and stick price labels on stuff at the back of a char­ity shop for a month do you really think I’d put that on my CV when I have skills and qual­i­fi­ca­tions already , what does that say about me other than I was unem­ployed and put on a workscheme’

Qualifications are worthless if you have zero work experience. What most employers these days are looking for is someone who wants to work - the charity shop job is a signal to employers that he is willing to roll his sleeves up and get on with it

And does he really think there is nothing to learn working in a shop?

Sirzy Thu 08-Nov-12 20:42:59

I will ask again, what is he doing with his time now?

Sirzy Thu 08-Nov-12 20:43:19

and was it the only time he had been late?

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 20:46:29

yes first and only

Bogeyface Thu 08-Nov-12 20:46:54

Sorry, but I think that you are making excuses for him.

He was late and they chose to use the sanctions that he agreed to when he signed on. Whether you or he agree or not is irrelevant.

The same with the work placement thing. My son was on one, it wasnt great but actually he did learn some new skills.

Tbh from what you have written, his attitude does point to the fact that he either doesnt want a job or doesnt want to do what you have to do to a) get a job and b) get JSA.

Whether you agree with the system or not, this is how it is and he must either suck it up or learn to live on nothing. The longer you keep defending him and paying for him, the longer he doesnt have to do anything for himself.

procrastinor Thu 08-Nov-12 20:47:34

You know what? I have met plenty of young people around your son's age who show amazing determination and dedication in trying to find work / make opportunities in what are very difficult times.

I certainly wouldn't believe in a man who thinks that he's better than working in a charity shop. I don't care if they said it was a punishment, so what? He knows his JSA is contingent on jumping through hoops, and actually he would have got some work experience out of it. A lot of employers prefer that over someone who has just finished a college course where their hand would have been held to a large extent.

AnaisB Thu 08-Nov-12 20:48:13

Has he worked before? What is he doing to find work?

Doesn't seem like it'd win me any mumsnet friends, but if I was told I'd been sent to do unpaid work because I'd been three minutes late to a meeting due to an accident I might walk out too.

Tuttutitlookslikerain Thu 08-Nov-12 20:48:22

There are jobs out there actually. My DS1 is counting the days down until he is 18 because then he can apply for one of the many pub jobs in our very small county. Yes, it is not ideal, but he doesn't think the world owes him a living and just wants to earn a few pounds before he goes to Uni!

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 20:49:50

sizry he is obviously playing call of duty black ops (or the new one eh) coz no way could he be partaking in our fammily

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 20:51:14

Of course I'm going to make excuses for him he is my son

Sirzy Thu 08-Nov-12 20:51:36

Whats with the sarcy answers?

In a thread of this nature it is a pretty important question. If he is spending his days doing voluntary work and applying for jobs good on him. Otherwise I have no sympathy.

You seem to be struggling to understand that the person responsible for his position is him. He chose not to take the opportunity given to him as he deemed it to be below him.

Sirzy Thu 08-Nov-12 20:51:58

Making excuses for him isn't going to help him.

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 20:53:56

Of course I'm going to make excuses for him he is my son

Riiiiight and yet I'm "the exact reason our sons and daughters age 19 get met with no-one believing them"??

If it was well covered in the newspaper, why didn't the appeal panel believe him?

procrastinor Thu 08-Nov-12 20:54:05

No you don't have to make excuses for him. Yes, he's your son but he's also an adult who needs to learn.

I know it's not nice but what are you hoping for us to say? no, actually he sounds like a go-getter, a lovely lad and how very dare they do that to him. That's not really going to help him in the long run.

Tuttutitlookslikerain Thu 08-Nov-12 20:55:20

There are 13 pages of jobs on job centre plus in Edinburgh, does he not fancy any of those?

Bogeyface Thu 08-Nov-12 20:56:57

You making excuses for him is exactly why he walked out of a required placement, and didnt see why being 3 minutes late was a problem.

Late is late and an employer wouldnt appreciate paying someone for time they arent there, be it 3 minutes or 3 hours. It shows a lack of commitment to the job. Part of job seeking advice is to instill the understanding that the employers are paying you for a service, you are not doing them a favour everytime you show up, which is the attitude you seem to be helping him develop.

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 20:58:25

I still don't believe he was sanctioned for being just 3 minutes late when he's never been late before.

But having said that, if he was sat on a bus going nowhere, he could have rang ahead and told them surely?

procrastinor Thu 08-Nov-12 20:59:31

Did the letter state he was three minutes late or just that he was late?

HanSolo Thu 08-Nov-12 21:00:48

YABU, but I think you know that.

I would take a very dim view of a 19 yo whose mum was writing to her MP etc on his behalf, and certainly question his capability and commitment to job hunting.

He is an adult- let him live his life.

stinkinseamonkey Thu 08-Nov-12 21:00:51

Did he phone from the bus when he realised he would be late?

You seem to think 19 is too young to be expected to know to phone ahead to say you're on your way but.. and to apologise properly when you arrive late?

You don't sound like you are doing him any favours OP

Bogeyface Thu 08-Nov-12 21:01:00


There are lots of jobs in my area too, but my son is 21, with minimal experience and a disability. Even without the disability, getting a job at his age is almost impossible as there have been alot of redundancies and so he is competing with people who have more experience and sometimes better qualifications too. He is back at college, doing the most hours he can without losing his JSA, but he still hasnt had an interview in 18 months sad There was an article in our local paper, cant remember the figures but the biggest group of unemployed in our area was 18-24 yrs by a massive margin.

It isnt that easy to get a job, but it is easy enough to get JSA if you are entitled to it and follow the rules. In 2.5 years of signing on, he hasnt been sanctioned once.

Shenanagins Thu 08-Nov-12 21:01:11

So he has been told that it was a punishment, ok, not fair given he was 3 mins late but he's an adult now who needs to learn when to suck it up in the big bad real world out there.

the labour market is tough so having the correct attitude and willingness to work will help.

he also needs to understand that there are thousands of graduates who have good degrees struggling to get any kind of work so he needs to get off his high horse and realise that quickly.

also is there any reason he needs to limit himself to Edinburgh as the labour market in aberdeen is pretty good.

Bogeyface Thu 08-Nov-12 21:01:45

Actually, I dont believe the 3 minutes thing either, as that could be put down to a slow watch or something.

kinkyfuckery Thu 08-Nov-12 21:03:59

He sounds like his attitude and the way he speaks to people stinks. Yours doesn't sound much better, tbh.

He needs to suck it off, apologise, and ask for their help seeking work.

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 21:05:16

Suck it off??? shock

That just brought wine tea out through my nostrils grin

Tuttutitlookslikerain Thu 08-Nov-12 21:06:20

Bogey, your DS sounds like a hardworking young man. I wish him well in his search for a job. He really deserves to find a job soon, by the sound of it.

OP, why is your DS playing computer games, why is he to out looking for work?

honeytea Thu 08-Nov-12 21:08:03

I think he just needs to start seeing things as oppertunities rather than punishments, surely a job placement is better than sitting on your bum all day doing nothing.

What are his hobbies? could he look for volentry work that used his intrerests and qualifications?

Bogeyface Thu 08-Nov-12 21:08:21

grin @ Suck it off!

Maybe if he does that he will get a job much quicker grin

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 21:10:07

Bogey stop it!! grin

I've now read the entire sentence with what you just said in mind....

"He needs to suck it off, apologise, and ask for their help seeking work"

Sounds like a great plan! grin

Bogeyface Thu 08-Nov-12 21:11:49

Thanks tuttut, he is, or he would like to be hmm

Its heartbreaking, because him and his GF of 2 years, are devoted and really want to live together but they cant afford it on her wage alone, and he wont move in until he can pay his way even though she would happily support them both in a cheaper area. Looks like they will be living apart for some years yet sad

Bogeyface Thu 08-Nov-12 21:12:25

You know what Worra? That has given me an idea for some job search advice for DS grin

OpheliaPayneAgain Thu 08-Nov-12 21:13:25

he also asked ‘If I go and stick price labels on stuff at the back of a char­ity shop for a month do you really think I’d put that on my CV when I have skills and qual­i­fi­ca­tions already , what does that say about me other than I was unem­ployed and put on a workscheme’

Attitude attitude attitude ..... lots of people out there with years of experience, degrees, and a postive attitude who cant find jobs at the moment. It is easy to get disillusioned, but his attitude is pissing people off.

If he had all these sills and qualifications he is so sure of, people would be beating down the door to employ him.

You make your own luck in this world. My friends son, articulate, bright, well groomed, personable walked into a select wine bar with the offer of working for a week for free on the provisio that they employ him at the end of the week if they liked what he did. The manager liked his cheek up front request and had employed him by the end of the night. It was his pocket money through 6th form.

TandB Thu 08-Nov-12 21:15:05

He needs to sort himself out. The system is far from perfect but there is a reason and a purpose to everything he is being asked to do. He can moan and sulk and flounce and think he's too good for it and finish up sitting up at home with his mum making excuses for him, or he can develop a bit more of a willing attitude and find the benefit in anything they ask him to do.

For someone with minimal work experience there is no such thing as a pointless work placement. There will always be something he can take out of it.

This has set my teeth right on edge because I am constantly dealing with clients who moan and whinge about the job centre, the probation service etc because they don't think they should be doing what they are being asked to do. They think the world owes them a living and that they are entitled to special treatment from every organisation they work with. They have an anwer for everything, usually involving someone giving them "attitude" or "having it in" for them, or it being a "waste of time."

Your son might think he is too good for the services being offered, but to the people offering it he is one of many, many young people who come and see them every day and kick off about being asked to lift a finger to help themselves.

Himalaya Thu 08-Nov-12 21:17:45


What is it your son wants to do?

You and he need to put your energies into finding that opportunity.

ImaginateMum Thu 08-Nov-12 21:18:17

If this were my son, he would get my ongoing finanical support / ability to live at home if he did the following:
- jumped through any required JSA hoops
- got a voluntary post which he performed diligently and enthusiastically
- applied for at least three jobs a day or at least had a set of online sites he diligently monitored
- was prepared to work in pubs, at McDonalds, etc, as he waited for a dream post (and, actually, some jobs like that have great training schemes)
- agreed to a family routine where he did x amount of regular/scheduled cooking and regular/scheduled cleaning

I would also be encouraging him to keep up with some kind of regular sport, even if it were jogging or swimming and also any hobbies.

I say all those because they give him things to put on his CV, give him structure to his day, and also will help the family and help his mental health. Stagnating at home playing computer games is not healthy for body, soul or employment prospects.

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 21:18:27

thank you

yeas he was sanctioned for being 3 mins late

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 21:20:05

cheers imagianateMum ............he does Martial Arts

ImaginateMum Thu 08-Nov-12 21:23:27

Both my brother, my BIL and my husband were unemployed in their twenties for a while. It is very tough. But you need to build a purposeful life to feel good about yourself and to keep yourself employable.

Martial Arts is great. Are there classes for younger people? Maybe the leader would like his help with those? Something like that would mean he was doing something for them, but also for his confidence and his CV.

Does he like animals? Could he walk neighbours dogs? My brother did that, not really for money, but it gave him a routine and got him outside exercising.

ImaginateMum Thu 08-Nov-12 21:27:41

Does it help if I add that they are all happily married, happily employed, house owners now?

complexnumber Thu 08-Nov-12 21:41:59

Does it help if I add that they are all happily married, happily employed, house owners now?

I think that helps a lot, and should reassure a lot of us

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 21:45:55

yes yea that would ImagagimateMum

He i unemployed and skint and getting shafted left right and centre by th job centre

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 21:46:21


kinkyfuckery Thu 08-Nov-12 21:48:12

Ah buggering bollocks.

Yes, he should suck it off, that is a career there in itself!

Purple2012 Thu 08-Nov-12 21:48:37

What was the other thing he was sanctioned for?

Sirzy Thu 08-Nov-12 21:48:49

Thats part of the problem, you (and so I guess he is aswell) are so keen to blame others.

HE needs to take some responsibility for it. HE needs to get out there and do whatever it takes to get himself employed (voluntary or paid) or into further training/education.

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 21:57:20

errm no Sirzy . You have know suggested it's partil my my fault

Keen to blame others ........oh dear come on and insult me and my son more

EverybodysSpookyEyed Thu 08-Nov-12 21:57:52

How did people get jobs before job centres?

Sirzy Thu 08-Nov-12 21:58:18

So again i ask (and perhaps you will bother to give a proper answer this time) what is HE doing to change the situation?

Purple2012 Thu 08-Nov-12 21:59:11

And I ask again, what was the other thing he was sanctioned for?

stinkinseamonkey Thu 08-Nov-12 21:59:55

what good is it doing him and his situation if you're both putting lots of energy into complaining about how "shafted" he is being

noone is going to turn this around for him if he's not in the right frame of mind, and you're not helping that

mrskeithrichards Thu 08-Nov-12 22:05:36

What kind of work is he looking for? My dh works in same area and will be looking to take on a labourer for a few weeks soon. (building site labouring)

Sausagedog27 Thu 08-Nov-12 22:10:23

I can see both sides- my bil left uni and couldn't find a job which related to his degree. He signed on and they job centre would put him forward for the most unsuitable jobs (by this I mean ones miles away where he would struggle etc), trying to get him to go to cv sessions (he had done a really good one already with the support of his uni) and generally just wanted him off their books at all costs, making him feel very small in the process.

But on the other hand, he sucked it up to get the money, played the game and in the end has found a really good job (through his uni careers centre I might add and lots of research off his own back- no help from the job centre).

I think you need to focus on the goal here- him getting a job/earning a living. I think his attitude does need addressing and I think you both need to focus your efforts on job hunting- not complaining etc.

Does the college have a careers advisor? My bil was put forward to a company by his course tutor and got the job that way. Your ds should maybe look at other options.

1sassylassy Thu 08-Nov-12 22:10:50

I gave you an idea to help him find work,instead of bleating about being screwed by the JC,get him round all the recruitment agencies tomorrow,lots of firms looking for Christmas workers,if he gets his foot in the door even on a temporary basis it might lead to permanent work.

Sausagedog27 Thu 08-Nov-12 22:12:51

Oh and my brother left uni last year, couldn't get a job which related to his course, but got some hours at McDonald's in the short term- he is now having management training with them. Not where he thought he would end up, but earning good money and gaining valuable experience and responsibility.

mrskeithrichards Thu 08-Nov-12 22:13:07

Or tell him to take a walk round the fort or the gyle or somewhere like that but quickly - many will be filling their Christmas temp jobs soon!

KelperRose Thu 08-Nov-12 22:15:06

Sirzy ..........well he he looking for a job day in and day out that not enough?

Bogeyface Thu 08-Nov-12 22:16:09

He i unemployed and skint and getting shafted left right and centre by th job centre

No he isnt and your "everyone elses fault" attitude is really pissing me off.

You want shafted? I'll give you shafted!

Shafted is having cerebal palsy, with proof of the brain damage from his CT scan ( sad ) but not being "disabled enough" for DLA. Shafted is not being disabled enough for ESA either and having to jump through the JSA hoops. Shafted is being disabled but because he doesnt get DLA he isnt entitled to any other help that is given to those with extra needs. Shafted is having his mother fight his corner for 20+ years, having her help him to be as independent as possible and then having that used as a reason to not give him any support at all, because he clearly doesnt need it. Shafted is getting through to a second round of interviews for a job that was his in all but name, and then getting dropped because of his disability but not being able to prove as the person who told us couldnt risk their own job by being a whistle blower.

Shafted is NOT being asked to do what the other 2.something million people in the UK are asked to do in order to get his JSA money. Shafted is NOT being expected to pull his head out of his arse and take responsibility for himself.

I hope you have no plans for his room, because at this rate you will still be wiping his bum for him in 20 years.

Sirzy Thu 08-Nov-12 22:18:24

Obviously it's not enough.

Is he being to selective of what he applies for? He seems to have an "I am too good for that attitude"

Does he do any voluntary work or anything else to boost his CV and employability?

Purple2012 Thu 08-Nov-12 22:18:42

kelper,i am guessing that the other thing he was sanctioned for must be something you know he did wrong or you would have answered the question.

Bogey - i hope things get better soon.

mrskeithrichards Thu 08-Nov-12 22:19:32

Has he tried all the shops?

I cut my teeth in retail (hark at me sounding like a dragon!) and I love it. I only work part time now in a totally different field but most years I dip my toe back in with a Christmas job - helps pay for the season as well!

Bogeyface Thu 08-Nov-12 22:21:15

And you know what else?

20 years ago, when my son was almost 2 years old I was told that he may never walk, talk or live an independent life. I was distraught, I was heartbroken and I was frightened of what our futures would hold.

Today, he wont move in with his GF because he cant pay his way and will wait as long as it takes. He worked at a charity shop until he went back to college (he wasnt allowed to do both and sign on). He has determination and a good work ethic.

20 years ago I would have envied you your healthy son, now I think that i got the better deal.

Bogeyface Thu 08-Nov-12 22:22:57

Thanks Purple I keep the faith that Karma will make it happen for him soon.

Think I will have to hide this thread.

CaptainHoratioWragge Thu 08-Nov-12 22:22:59

Good grief, if he really thinks having an education and skills to put on his cv is preferable to experience actually working somewhere, even as a volunteer, he is NEVER going to get a job.

Employers need to see that he can turn up everyday, even if it is to do something he doesn't like doing, because, unless your a member of the Rolling Stones, work can be like that....

Stropping off is not going to help him one little bit, and you'd been doing him a favour to not bankroll him and let him learn his lesson sooner rather than later.

Purple2012 Thu 08-Nov-12 22:24:54

Im sure it will Bogey. One day he will get a good job,move in with his girlfriend and live a happy life.

marriedinwhite Thu 08-Nov-12 22:29:07

Two choices really. You pay him an allowance whilst he looks for another job or he claims one via jobseekers/unemployment and follows the rules they require for him to do so.

What work experience does he have? What's wrong with working in a charity shop pricing items in return for receiving "free" money? Has it occurred to you that the people in the charity shop might provide a reference for legitimate job applications that refers to things like "reliable, helpful, mature, willing, a credit to any future employer".

One might even ask why, if he can't get paid work, he hasn't taken up a few charitable activities of his own volition?

kinkyfuckery Thu 08-Nov-12 22:34:06


The system is an absolute cunt at times. I hope your son keeps his smile on his face and gets a break soon.

Bogeyface Thu 08-Nov-12 22:43:41

Kinky He said a while back, when I was having a mad rant about him not getting a job that he was perfect for, that he wouldnt want to work for a company that wouldnt give him a chance and told me to chill!
Bit teary now sad

stinkinseamonkey Thu 08-Nov-12 22:44:20

he does sound like a good'un bogeyface! he'll get there soon, and when he does he'll be a much appreciated member of someone's team/buisness x

foslady Thu 08-Nov-12 23:18:07

he also asked ‘If I go and stick price labels on stuff at the back of a char­ity shop for a month do you really think I’d put that on my CV when I have skills and qual­i­fi­ca­tions already , what does that say about me other than I was unem­ployed and put on a workscheme’

It shows he's adaptable, a great team player and excellent customer services. It shows that he's comfortable amongst both those above and below on the career ladder. It show he is reliable, can get up in a morning and manage a full days work.

So what does getting your mother to write to an MP stating the JC is shafting him tell an employer? (btw are you aware some employers do google prospective employees names........?)

foslady Thu 08-Nov-12 23:20:42

Bogey can I just wish your son all the luck possible in getting a job soon - and that his comment was him having a bad day.......

holidaysarenice Fri 09-Nov-12 02:07:11

Oooo I just have to post.

10 days ago I decided I needed a few extra pennies for some upcoming bills. See I live in a real world.

I applied for a 'sticking labels on things' type of job... I.e. Christmas temp in retail.

I have no retail experience (lots of healthcare tho) AND A DEGREE!!!

I used those things called transferable skills, past the interview and START tomorrow.

So your son can come with his degree and his no experience...wait no... sticking labels on things isn't good enough for him.

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 07:30:47

Its not hard to see where he gets his attitude from.

Honestly op, what advice are you looking for?

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 07:59:10

Feel free to p.m. me about the labouring work op.

Loads of bar and waiting jobs being advertised for over Christmas in Edinburgh OP.... I see them almost daily on my way to/from work.... Many say no experience needed. A wander along the Grassmarket might prove fruitful in finding a temp job. When I graduated (a good few years ago, admittedly) I was willing to take anything until I found something I actually wanted to do. Wasn't a bad learning experience...

Fairenuff Fri 09-Nov-12 08:17:43

He should have taken the charity shop job. My friend's 19 year old, 6ft ds was sent to be an elf in Santa's grotto last Christmas. Full green costume, red hat and red pointy 'one size fits all' shoes. That charity shop job doesn't sound too bad now, does it grin

On the other hand, he is perfectly entitled to refuse the work and opt out of JSA. They are there to offer employment, not force it on him but he can't have the money if he refuses the work. Sounds fair to me, what's his problem really?

ImaginateMum Fri 09-Nov-12 08:26:32

One of my good friends, already a highly qualified and experienced lawyer, took a job as a toilet attendant when she first moved to London - it was afternoon and evenings, leaving mornings for job hunting. It wasn't for long and it brought in money. The Golden Circle law firm that hired her were really impressed, said it showed she was a grafter not a princess.

She was hired over other highly qualified and experienced lawyer because she handed out loo paper and wiped basins for a few weeks - this is what OP's son needs to recognise. OP too maybe.

(Gave her some pretty decent anecdotes too - all sorts happens in posh loos!)

ChristineDaae Fri 09-Nov-12 08:50:54

Bogey your sons sounds lovely. OP - I worked in mcdonalds, then waitresses right through my teens. I have thankfully never had to sign on and by 19 had moved to a different island than my parents and now work 2 jobs. (one a very cushy bank job, that they told me get liked me fit due to a serious lack of gaps in my CV since I turned 16) and one waitressing, because it's what iv always done and I enjoy it (and it pays some bills!)

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 08:54:51

thank you for your replies.

he didn't walk out of work placement, he walked out of the company JHP when they told him he was being put on work placement as a 'punishment'

He has work experience , he has been employed in several part time jobs whilst at school and college , then it dried up

Several posters recommended the kick him at the door at 9am and tell him to go and look for work.

He's done that and has found that whatever shop/cafe/restaurant he walks into the answer is always the same 'all our vacancies are advertised on-line, apply on-line........I think the days of just turning up somewhere and saying 'have you got any jobs' are long gone?

I'd like to ask though if there are any members here who would be willing to have a look over his cv and perhaps suggest improvements?

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 09:01:24

I would be very surprised if small independent restaurant, bar, care etc only advertise online. owning a restaurant myself I know I, and the business owners around me (all small independents) like people coming through the door. The only online job advertising we would do is with the job centre.

A pp has said their is lots of no experience required jobs in Edinburgh. Even if he walks down the street and notes the name of the advertisers or posts a cv through their door, or if they are open go in introduce himself and leave a cv.

And tbh op all this 'of course I am making excuses, he is my son' is not helping him.

Icelollycraving Fri 09-Nov-12 09:03:01

I am currently recruiting seasonal temps & the interviews have been unusually of a high standard. The people that are attending have less opportunities than before & make more of an effort. Those that don't,don't get a job. The ones turning up with an entitled poor me attitude don't get offered a job,they will be a bloody nightmare in the workplace.
I have offered jobs to people with little experience but who have a bit of oomph about them. The ones that are the biggest pain are the ones with the indulgent parents. He needs to grow up & accept any job.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 09:13:48

Get him to register with recruitment agencies. A few years ago with the snow all the work ground to a halt but my husband kept gettin calls from agencies to go out and clear the streets of snow.

Kelper you ask for advice and opinions but generally you come across as not wanting to hear them. We can only go on what you tell us in your OP and subsequently and unfortunately, based on that, your son doesn't come across well. Even in your OP you yourself say he has an attitude.

Yes, it may well stink that he was told he was there as a 'punishment' if they did say that. But unfortunately when he does get a job he will find there are times when his boss may say something he doesn't like or agree with and he needs to learn how to handle that (either suck it up or discuss it reasonably).

The only advice to offer is that he needs to sort his attitude out. No one can magic up a job for him in the current climate. There will always be people with better qualifications than him going for even the lowest-paid roles. That is life. He needs to understand that. He also needs to understand that if he is up for a job - any job - there will be loads up for it. He needs to make himself stand out. Because a good personality, willingness to work (demonstrated on a CV and volunteering DOES count these days) and most importantly a positive, cheerful attitude can often be the deciding factor.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 09:15:17

I don't think those days are gone, many places recruiting temps at this time of year will have a stash of applications under the counter.

What does he think about the labouring I mentioned?

procrastinor Fri 09-Nov-12 09:15:29

kelper someone up thread has said that their DH is looking for labourers - that might be a good place to start (with tons of transferable skills)

procrastinor Fri 09-Nov-12 09:16:43

Ah mrskeithrichards talk of the devil...

helpyourself Fri 09-Nov-12 09:18:41

I train job seekers in interview technique, job search strategies, CV and letter writing.
Attitude is really important though. Nothing puts a prospective employer off more than giving the impression that the applicant thinks the job is below him. And that impression comes not from qualifications but a lack of graft on the cv- he needs volunteering, McD jobs on it.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 09:21:42

Dh is needing to get an extension out the ground before the weather sets in, decent pay (£8 hour) for a few weeks. Recruitment done through an agency, pm me and I'll let you know which one. It's easy to register with these agencies and once you are they contact you for work. Especially if you've proven yourself before.

Not a permanent solution but some cash and experience.

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 09:25:42

thanks Mutney I appreciate your thoughts ....I'm only making an excuse for him on here , not in real life.

In real life I'm alternating between supporting and encouraging him then sort of lecturing him with the 'when i was 19 I had a fulltime hob and my own flat' routine.

I just feel a bit overwhelmed to be honest because he is hurting and I can't make it better (if that makes sense?)

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 09:27:26

oops job not hob (although I did have my own cooker grin )

mameulah Fri 09-Nov-12 09:29:08

What whois said.

I can't believe you are in a dilema as to whether or not to support your son?

Being successfully employed is about being able to play 'the game' and part of 'the game' is knowing when to keep your mouth shut and making sure you are punctual. It is his life, he is responsible for it.

If there was even one other person there who was 'playing the game' by being punctual and keeping their mouth shut why would they have picked your son? He needs to realise that he is not doing them a favour by turning up. They don't care if he turns up or not. Being unemployed and without opportunity is his problem, not theirs.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 09:31:23


givemeaclue Fri 09-Nov-12 09:31:52

Ok well whilst looking for a paying job ,one charity/voluntary work sounds ideal. Is he prepared to do that?

TheReturnOfBridezilla Fri 09-Nov-12 09:31:53

I work for a parallel agency and JSA really does get sanctioned for the poorest of reasons. There was mention in the press last year of JCP workers working to targets over the issue.

Bogeyface Fri 09-Nov-12 09:32:41

It was very kind of you to offer that information Mrs.

I can see you wink hmm

blueraincoat Fri 09-Nov-12 09:35:11

Bogeyface - You probably already know this but you sound like an incredible mum.

OP - YABU. I was unemployed leaving university. I volunteered whilst applying to 6-7 jobs a day. It was the skills that I got from volunteering that got me the job I have now and the degree-relevant job I am about to walk into. Your son has to do whatever he can however over qualified he is and as other people said he just has to suck it up.

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 09:36:09

thank you MrskeithRichards will pm you smile

HeathRobinson Fri 09-Nov-12 09:36:25

My 18 yr old dd is at college. She also has 3 part-time jobs. It can be done if you're not picky.

Bogeyface Fri 09-Nov-12 09:36:41

Hah, I am not Blue, scraping average at best grin but thanks for saying that smile

WileyRoadRunner Fri 09-Nov-12 09:40:55

There has got to be some Christmas temp jobs surely? Not ideal for career purposes but he will be working, earning money, and out of the house.

Yes it will be boring but work is (unless you are really lucky).

In our local towns all the temp jobs are advertised with posters in the shop windows - Next, the department stores, Topshop, Lakeland etc. These never appear online or in local publications.

I think you need to encourage him to do anything rather than stay in the situation he is currently in. It will be better if he finds something himself and then he can distance himself from the DWP workers and work placements etc as he obviously finds it all difficult to stomach.

Now is the hardest time to be a university or college leaver. It won't last forever but he needs to be doing something/anything as others will and they will put working in a charity shop/temp retail/volunteering on their CV's. He must understand that that will then give them a advantage over him.

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 09:47:41

he's applied for John Lewis, Sainsbury's , Asda , Boots , McDonalds, Tesco, Next , River Island, PizzaHut, Top Shop, Superdrug and a pound shop for Christmas work.

He's had 4 emails saying thanks but no thanks 'we'll keep your details on file' an is still too hear back from the others (fingers crossed)

ClippedPhoenix Fri 09-Nov-12 09:55:12


I don't want to get into some sort of terrible argument on here. I think some of the posters have been appauling, calling your son names for one is disgusting.

I just wanted to offer a bit of support. It's awful isn't it. I remeber walking out of school and into a job, then another if that didn't suit. There was none of this shite that goes on now adays.

You sound like a lovely mum and as you've said your son is still a teenager.

Frustration on both sides then. Just keep at it and tell him from me, he'll get there.

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 09:55:42

did you get pm MrsKR? I'm not sure how to pm?

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 10:04:35

Thank you ClippedPhonenix [flowers]

Cahoots Fri 09-Nov-12 10:10:23

My DS has worked in a charity shop for a couple of hours a week for the last three years. He files bits of paper. (even less exciting than stickers) This has gone on his UCAS form. He discussed how it shows dedication, the ability to work with a wide variety of mad old biddies people and enthusiasm. Etc, etc. If I were unemployed I would happily put stickers on things in a charity shop.

I am sorry to question the OP but I would be stunned if the OP's DS was sanctioned purely for being 3 minutes late.

I think the OP needs to tell her DS to change his attitude.

Cahoots Fri 09-Nov-12 10:13:52

Is he good enough at marial arts to do some volunteer (paid?) work in that area?

aufaniae Fri 09-Nov-12 10:22:23

KelperRose I haven't read the whole thread as tbh I don't want to get sucked in to arguing with the benefit bashers who I suspect may well be spilling poisonous bile here!

There are two issues here, your son getting a job and the way he's been treated.

WorkFare is a farce. Anyone who thinks it's a good thing has little experience of total uselessness of the DWP. I've signed on a couple of times and they've hindered, rather than helped me find work!

I would definitely make a complaint about workfare as punishment. That's an abuse of the system, and anyway, if it's so beneficial, why would it be used as a punishment?!

Regarding your son, you asked if anyone would look at his CV. I used to view CVs as part of my old job, and have written a fair few for friends (with a good success rate!). If you want to send it to me I'd be happy to give it the once over. PM me if you'd like me to do this smile

Purple2012 Fri 09-Nov-12 10:37:35

aufaniae if you had read the whole thread you would have seen there was NO benefit bashing. People have given a lot of advice on where to look for jobs and even someone with details of a possible job for her son.

Yes people have said his attitude stinks but i suggest you read the whole thread before you accuse people of spouting poisionous bile.

Mumsyblouse Fri 09-Nov-12 10:38:52

I think you have the chance to salvage this situation, or rather for him to do so. He does sound a bit stroppy, but on the other hand, he is now experiencing the consequences of having walked out (no JSA) and this may be the best thing that ever happened to him, might knock some of the attitude off whilst giving him the fire to do better and get a good first job (to avoid the dreadful fate of workschemes).

The one thing is though, I think you should leave him to it, as you have done. If he wants to complain to his MP, let him write the letter. If he wants to apply for jobs, let him get someone to review his CV. I work at a university and see infantalised teenagers, some even early twenties all the time. If they get into trouble or get bad marks, they tell me their parents will be coming to the university to sort things out, or get them to call up. Don't be that parent. Allow him to learn from this mistake. Allow him to get another crappy job which might be even worse than sticking on labels, and not pay much either. Let him realise for himself how this is going to have to work.

In the long run, allow his own ambition to drive all of this, not yours for him. I think it's ok to pass on info, or read through a letter he has written for spelling errors, but beyond that, I would let him fight his own battles, which he seems to be doing quite successfully. I think it will come right for him if he has applied for that many jobs and keeps going (it is a tough market though).

DigestivesWithCheese Fri 09-Nov-12 10:42:43

I agree that you son needs to do something with his time - even if it's not what he wants to do long term. The charity shop would be a lot better than nothing & I'm sure he could pull a lot out of that to talk about at future interviews.

I graduated in a recession. I had a good degree in an acedemic subject that I'd worked extremely hard for. As soon as I finished, I signed up with temp agencies & I also applied to do voluntary work (in an area totally unrelated to my degree). The temp agency sent me for an interview to go a filing job for a local government dept. The wage was not much over minimum wage and it was quite a bit less than I'd been paid before I started my degree.

However, I didn't turn my nose up at it. I put on a suit, took the interview very seriously and prepared well beforehand - I got the filing job! I then spent months on my hands & knees in a dark, cold filing room, looking for the files of dead people so they could be destroyed sad. It was demoralising and I did feel overqualified. But, I turned up every day and remained as professional as I could. I was then offered extra temp hours as a P.A, which I accepted..

I carried on doing this, as well as voluntary work, rushing around to get to the job after the school run & paying ridiculous parking fees to park in a town half an hour away (which meant I wasn't really earning much anyway!). In addition to this, I kept up with the voluntary work at weekends.

But it paid off in the end. Within 6 months, I was offered 3 permanent jobs in a short period of time. One with the council I was temping for & two for private companies I'd interviewed with. The job I accepted was one where there had been a massive amount of candidates & it was a really gruelling interview process. It also had a good graduate starting salary.I know there were others who were as qualified as I was (or more) but I honestly think the thing that made me stand out was that I had a lot to talk about and they could see I'd really kept myself busy since graduating.

Imagine I've I'd just sat there with a negative attitude & said "well, I'm been trying to find a job for 6 months but there's nothing out there". I managed to be enthusiastic about everything I'd been doing, despite the fact that I'd hated every minute of the council job.

Okay, your DS doesn't want to work for free and I understand that it is hard for 19 year olds to see the bigger picture at times. But he has to realise that there are SO many people looking for work right now that is is going to be up against really qualified, experienced and enthusiastic people. He needs something that makes him stand out - and that shouldn't be his attitude!

DigestivesWithCheese Fri 09-Nov-12 10:45:53

* academic not acedemic!

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 10:51:06

Replied kelper hope it worked think pm's are playing up!

Also what about royal mail? Lots of temp posties at this time of year!

I think the charity work would have been a good idea - is there any more volunteering he can do? Particularly with his martial arts. Hopefully one of the other places he has applied to will contact him. How long has it been? Perhaps a follow up email would help.

At least he didn't do what one charmer I interviewed did. When asked to tell us a little bit about himself he replied, 'I don't think that's any of your business'. confused

Mumsyblouse Fri 09-Nov-12 11:06:54

Ratherbe that's funny (not in a good way really!)

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 11:25:53

I just feel a bit overwhelmed to be honest because he is hurting and I can't make it better (if that makes sense?)

I get that. But its of his own making.

He has applied to all those companies. How many small independent restaurants has he been into with his cv. There are quite alot in Edinburgh and all will need extra staff right now.

aufaniae Fri 09-Nov-12 11:36:11

Purple2012 if they're not here I'm delighted!

There are many benefit bashers on mumsnet however and I have spent far too long arguing with them in the past.

Have stuff to do today, can't risk getting drawn in!

MysteriousNameChange Fri 09-Nov-12 12:37:03

What's he interested in doing? What's he want for a career?

When I left uni I wanted to get a job in book publishing but so did a million other people. So I got a job in a bookshop - poor wage but an area I was interested in and it gave me enough experience to get into book publishing.

He should be doing anything he can in whatever area he really loves to get experience.

I do know it's very hard for young people these days. I advertised a job recently and nearly all respondents had a degree but hadn't been able to get a degree-relevant job since graduation (most had, however, made the effort to find employment somewhere).

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 12:40:48

well he just had his jobcentre appointment , to sign back on, and was approached by two people to say 'have you ever thought about joining the army'

WTF are the army recruiting in Job Centres these days

He's come home saying 'I might go in the army , they pay and I wouldn't be unemployed'

I'm a bit shock

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 12:42:11

he'd clean toilets ....he just want a job

apartridgeinapeartree Fri 09-Nov-12 12:45:05

Oh, no, that's terrible sad

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 12:50:44

WTF are the army recruiting in Job Centres these days

What's wrong with that? What's wrong with the army and why is it so awful. If he does want to join it needs to be more than a quick decision. He needs to choose because he wants it not because they are there.

MysteriousNameChange Fri 09-Nov-12 13:00:42

It's admirable that he just wants a job - but is there nothing at all he'd specifically like to do?

My cousin is in the navy and has had a fantastic time and good career progression.

apartridgeinapeartree Fri 09-Nov-12 13:04:38

What's wrong with the army trying to recruit my DCS, in my eyes is:

a. I don't agree with most of what they do

b. I don't want my DCs getting blown up, or trained to be killers

c. I think preying on kids who have no jobs, asking them to risk their lives in return for a pay cheque - not because the want to support queen and country, but because they are desperate for a job, any job - is evil.

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 13:09:10

Well, OP

On a and b YOUR opinion doesn't matter.

On C the army is a perfect reasonable and good job to have. They are not preying on kids. Your son is an adult.
I think that's the issue. You don't come across as though your son is 19, it sounds like you are talking about a child. He isn't.
And do you really not credit him with enough sense to actually think about what joining the army means?

apartridgeinapeartree Fri 09-Nov-12 13:11:40

Hey, I'm not the OP, you're getting confused!

And yes, the army do prey on the poor and desperate, of course they do. To think otherwise is naive IMO.

No I don't think most 19 year olds really understand what going to war actually means, not the reality of it.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 13:12:23

<ahem> it wasn't the op that posted her reasoning!

Anyway, FWIW, I think the army should advertise and actively recruit (they have to obviously) but something just doesn't sit right with me at the thought of them targeting young people at job centres.

Signing up to however many years in the forces isn't the same as taking a shit job.

apartridgeinapeartree Fri 09-Nov-12 13:13:02

Some years back, I met an 18 year-old who'd signed just signed a 22 year contract with the army.

I don't think an 18 year old really has any concept of 22 years! That should be illegal IMO.

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 13:13:31

sorry yes I am gett you confused with the op.

but most still stands.

They don't prey on kids ffs.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 13:15:03

How would you describe prey?

apartridgeinapeartree Fri 09-Nov-12 13:15:55

Why do they target poor areas for recruitment then? They opened an army recruitment centre in my local shopping centre (with playstations with war games on them which kids could come and play). I live in a London borough which every year is declared one of the most deprived parts of the UK.

You don't see them opening them on High Street Ken, do you?

Why not?

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 13:16:30

I do agree a 22 year contract should not be allowed.

However, that's different to preying on kids to recruit. Yes some recruiters will be devious. But not all or most.

Claiming that children are being preyed on because of one shit situation doesn't add up.

Again apologies for the confusion to you and op.

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 13:18:02

Its not just the use of prey, its also the use of children.
The Ops son is 19. Not a child.

apartridgeinapeartree Fri 09-Nov-12 13:18:28

MrsK, I mean that they target people so desperate for a job they will consider taking one which risks their life - not because they want to serve for noble reasons, but because they're that desperate. They army know what they're doing here.

Michael Moore does something about the US army recruitment tactics, and how they do exactly this, in one of his films (probably Bowling for Columbine or Farenheight 911, I forget which now).

apartridgeinapeartree Fri 09-Nov-12 13:19:55

OK, let's substitute the term "young people" for "kids". My lazy use of language there! (They're kids to me!)

apartridgeinapeartree Fri 09-Nov-12 13:20:50

*Fahrenheit blush

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 13:50:07

Substitute it all you want.

They are still adults capable of making their own decisions.

By saying they 'preyed' upon really undermines the ones go do join.

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 14:19:38

they don't prey on kids........laughing my ass old was average solider in WW1 or WW2

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 14:23:25

it was 18 in WW1 , 20 in WW2 and 19 in vietanam .......teenagers

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 14:24:46

So all of adult age, then. Yes it hilarious that people think an adult can't make a decision.

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 14:26:46

And what the recruitment of people in wars decades ago have to do with a recruiting in a job centre I don't know.

I also didn't know the UK fought the Vietnam war. confused

Just posted on facebook:

Fiftysix North

We are currently looking for floor staff to join the fun at 56 in time for the busy festive period. Email us a CV to

Teabagtights Fri 09-Nov-12 14:31:42

Why does he not go to university? Get a degree, thats the best place for him.

He will get help with the costs providing you do not earn over the required amount.

So far as I am concerned if he is intelligent enough to go to college the next course of action is Uni, people who go to Uni theoretically earn 40% more than those that don't in a first job.

My son went to Uni for four years came out at 23 and got a 50k a year job with bonuses. Done voluntary whilst at Uni to bolster his CV as it looks good.

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 14:32:26

Do you run the army mutney are you The Queen

If you can seriously not see that army recruiters in a jobcentre is wrong will heaven help you and sign up all children at 16

Teabagtights Fri 09-Nov-12 14:33:38

As an aside I would always support my children no matter what, be it financial or emotional, it would not be dependant upon them working and giving me money because that is not what I had them for.

When I had my children I knew that no matter what I would always support them financially if necessary. I never had them so that when they left Uni they could work and give me money. Its not what you have children for so they can subsidise the household.

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 14:38:43

Are you 5, op?

This is where your son gets his attitude.

your child is an adult. Not a 16 year old.
If my children wanted to join, I would support them. Despite the fact my step brother was killed in afganistan.
because it will be their decision.

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 14:44:12

fair does Mutney bit of warped logic though

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 14:45:25

so sorry to hear bout your brother sad

Floggingmolly Fri 09-Nov-12 14:47:32

You were asked upthread how your son is currently spending his time, op.
Do you really think "partaking in our family" (!) will look better on his CV than working in a charity shop? It seems to cause you much hilarity for some reason, but I doubt potential employers will see the funny side.

ClippedPhoenix Fri 09-Nov-12 14:47:37

at 19 they're still not "fully cooked" in my opinion either.

19 is still nineTEEN.

TheCraicDealer Fri 09-Nov-12 14:49:22

My DP joined the army because he was in a similar position to your son. You sign up to do four years, typically, although you can leave before if you really want. It's not surprising (or bad, IMO) that they are recruiting in job centres. Firstly, your son has a voice can say "no" if he doesn't want to do it, which we can clearly see he's willing to do from your previous posts. Secondly, he'd be getting training, a good wage and life experience for the four years he'd be in, probably coming out at 23/24 with skills and knowledge that would stand him in good stead.

I'm not saying he should go for it like, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. And if you're going to learn to loose an attitude the army would be the place to start- if he thinks DWP/Jobcentre are bad....! Whatever choices he makes, you have to stop making excuses for him. If you continue to pander to his "oh woe is me" act all you will do is guarantee that he sees himself as a victim, rather than the master of his own destiny. Give him a slap and get him to realise his potential!

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 14:56:02

clipped in that case I feel sorry for the 19 year olds you know. 'not fully cooked' really?

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 15:00:06

thanks op
it hard. But he was an 18 year old (when he joined) who joined because he anted to defend his country and family. he died doing what he thought was right.
By suggesting that the army are preying on kids undermines the dedication and the maturity of people like him.

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 15:19:36

how how spends his time.......well he is a martial arts geek and goes and trains most days....

He does voluntary work with a local charity

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 15:29:23

No mutney I don't think it does ....what your brother did at age 18 was totally commendable but he's dead now because of war.

So, maybe, just maybe, you can see my point of view in thinking I don't want my son to be dead by signing up to the army , where they do , and they do, pick on people on people signing up when they are most vulnerable/influential

ClippedPhoenix Fri 09-Nov-12 15:35:23

Ditto Mutney.

Kids used to be sent up chimneys as well you know. grin

ClippedPhoenix Fri 09-Nov-12 15:37:45

My son is in the Sea Cadets and wants to be a Marine (I'm trying to quide him into other areas in the navy), so I know where you're coming from OP. It's bloody scary stuff.

helpyourself Fri 09-Nov-12 15:37:55

Kelper that was a low blow.
You're looking everywhere else, at everyone else. No one but your son himself can realise his potential. But you are enabling him to fail by infantilising him.

ClippedPhoenix Fri 09-Nov-12 15:39:27

Blimey now we're infantilising our teens grin

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 15:43:05

No it was not a low blow.......mutney has been praising the sign up process for the army and thinking it's ok for them to be be in Jobcentres.

I don't

Shenanagins Fri 09-Nov-12 15:43:29

Kelper is there a specific reason he is restricting his search to Edinburgh? As I mentioned up thread the job market in Aberdeen is relatively ok why doesn't he look there or even just outwith Edinburgh.

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 15:48:34

errm because he doesn't drive? and he is an 'unofficial carer for me' That bit makes me feel bad because I feel I might be holding him back?

Shenanagins Fri 09-Nov-12 15:53:46

Trains and buses go to Aberdeen. As for an unofficial carer, that's more tricky, can you approach social services to obtain some sort of support so that he has the freedom to go and get a job elsewhere.

I don't want to sound harsh but it does sound from your last post that you are holding him back. I also have a condition which might mean that I will need additional support in the future but it will be over my dead body that it will come from my children and hold them back in any way.

helpyourself Fri 09-Nov-12 15:54:39

Writing to his MP, quashing his aspirations, even posting on here as if he was in P1 and not an adult, old enough to vote and get married. You yourself said in your first post you'd fuelled his attitude to the benefits agencies. So yes, infantilising.

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 16:14:50

that is a worry of mine....holding him back, I've never never ever asked him to be here for me and he always told him 'spread your wings'

IWantToGoToThere Fri 09-Nov-12 16:17:39

OP, you have been asked for the last 9 pages what your son does during the day while he waits for a job to fall into his lap and you only just mention now that he's doing charity work? It's this drip-feeding that is making me not believe what you are saying

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 16:23:05

I have answered that IWantToGoThere about 2 pages back?


Also - Fuller Thomson bar & restaurant group.... I walk pas 2 of their places every day, and they have recruiting signs up in the window. If he really wants to work, he could try these.....I also posted another bar opportunity further up thread. See.... it's not that hard when you look. Not wonderful jobs, but jobs nonetheless.

"We're always interested in hearing from good bar and waiting staff, chefs and kitchen assistants. If you can work in Dundee or Edinburgh (please specify) and have experience you think will count, please click here, write or attach your CV and tell us a bit about why you think you'd be great. We'll be in touch soon."

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 16:53:03

well this is one restriction he will make........he does not want to work in a bar because his father was an alcoholic and he can't stand being around drunk people

Is the Fuller Thomas bar & restaurant group, with the vacancies in Edinburgh?

Yes - google it and find out the info, but yes, it's in Edinburgh..... I think beggars can't always be choosers with jobs. He either wants work or doesn't, but with respect, he sounds like he's being overly choosy.

I don't particularly like being around drunk people either, but I worked in bars for years because I needed to fund my studying; I didn't like phoning people, trying to sell things, but worked in a call centre selling Sky TV to people for a few months because it was money; I don't particularly enjoy cleaning other people's mess up, but I chambermaided in hotels whilst I was travelling. All examples of if you're really willing to work, you'll do things which wouldn't be your ideal! At 19, and with very little experience, it sounds like he's being picky, and you're enabling that by making excuses for him. Graduates, and those with a lot of experience are struggling to get work at the moment - he's not going to be top of a lot of lists for better paid, cushier jobs.....

Bogeyface Fri 09-Nov-12 17:12:10

I dont like being around drunk people, no one likes being around drunk people but you are a damn sight safer behind the bar than you are standing at it if someone kicks off, trust me!

Frankly, he should take what he can get.

I am beginning to wonder if either of you actually want him to get a job. Seems that you both like the status quo where he doesnt have to work and you get an "unofficial carer" who you dont ask to do anything and tell him to spread his wings while not wanting him to work in the next town hmm

Or, Amazon warehouse in Dunfermline are always looking for people. They recruit through an agency, but not sure which one. Would be fairly easy to google and find out. 30 minute train ride, then 15 minute walk. Not hard. Lots of shifts, and I'm sure it will be busy in the run up to Christmas.
Bet there's an excuse to not look there too.....

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 17:18:19

well re fuller thomson .....this is what comes up on their website?

fullerthomson operates venues in both Edinburgh and Dundee and has a packed calendar; festivals, launches, international DJ club nights, jazz, comedy, rock - we'll keep you up to date with what's going on, all year long.

So do they actually have jobs because there no vacancies advertised on there website, nor does it say where there physical address is?

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 17:18:24

No mutney I don't think it does ....what your brother did at age 18 was totally commendable but he's dead now because of war.

in my view it does, it says he didn't make a decision because he wasn't old enough so he didn't make a commitment.

I get you don't want your son to die (remembering this doesn't happen to the majority) but I respected his choice....because he is an adult and his life was use how HE saw fit.

Do you think most parents want their kids to join?

My point is just because you don't want him to join doesn't mean he shouldn't. if he decides that, you can't do anything. You can not make that decision for him.

however, as he seems to be considering it as a way out of a problem, i do hope he doesn't.

As for the drink issue, what about restaurants? they occasionally have drunk people in. He is closing a lot of options
what about an office? what if he gets a job and a colleague has a drink problem? these things happen.

I don't speak to my grandfather as he is a violent drunk. I have also worked in an office where one of my team members had a drink problem and despite trying to get her help and the company paying for treatment, she died. My team were devastated. I couldn't refuse to work with her.

I hate being around drunk people, but it comes with mixing with people in general. Does he never go out with his friends to anywhere that alcohol is served?

Also licensing laws are very strict now. You can lose your license for serving drunk people so bars/ clubs are very up on this and have security to evict people they feel are too drunk.

Please actually read my previous posts OP. Sorry, but I'm leaving this thread before I scream. Some people want the world on a plate......

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 17:20:49

No it was not a low blow.......mutney has been praising the sign up process for the army and thinking it's ok for them to be be in Jobcentres.

Thats not even true. I do think its ok for them to be in job centres, as it is a valid job.

I have not praised it. I have challenged the view they are 'preying on children'. because its factually incorrect especially in your sons circumstances as he is and ADULT and they did prey on him. Did he sign up? no.

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 17:25:28

Why are you googling the suggestions OP?

Where is you son and why is he not doing it?

It took me 30 seconds to google fuller thomson in Edinburgh and then clink the link that says 'work for us' where its asks you to email your cv.

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 17:26:47

Thank you Casperthefriendlyspook he's off goggling the amazon warehouse as we speak. Thanks for that

shriekingnora Fri 09-Nov-12 17:31:18

Completely ignoring the rest of the thread - has he tried going round industrial estates etc? I run a business on an industrial estate and if someone comes round with a good attitude, looking presentable and keen to work we will always point them in the direction of people who are looking for workers or try and help in other ways. Successful people are those who see every bit of work experience as an opportunity and keep adding new skills.

I wish him luck - job hunting is demoralising and it is very hard to keep up with applying for jobs every day. When DH was out of work for 7 months we found it took him less time each day as he was only having to search the updated vacancies online and to the untrained eye it seemed like he was loafing around! He ended up doing jobs that cost him nearly as much in travel as he earned so he was doing something rather than nothing. And cycling 14 mile round trips for minimum wage.

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 17:35:39

why am goggling the suggestions ........errm well because I am not psychic and need a first of reference

mutny Fri 09-Nov-12 17:41:45

I am going to hide this thread.

OP i wish your son the best of luck, but you don't need to do anything apart from say 'i have heard...are looking for people'.

let him do the rest.

I genuinely wish him the best. I do, i just think you need to let him grow up a bit.

Good luck

KelperRose Fri 09-Nov-12 17:44:02

Thank you mutny

Cahoots Fri 09-Nov-12 18:07:29

I would advise him to try bar work, regardless of his experiences with his Dad. If he gets evening work then he can still job hunt in the day time. It seems a bit crazy to blank off so many possible jobs.

I also have a 19 year old and there are times when i would like to step in and do things or him but I know he will not learn things unless he sorts them out himself. I would be understanding of the difficultyin finding a job. But I wouldn't be happy with his attitude

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 18:51:02

Right let's get to the root of this problem as I am the person in question here and my mother is paying for my food, electricity and gas. She is not paying for hobbies, travel and clothing; if she was that would be completely out of order considering she does not have the money to do so - if she was paying for that I would still be attending the martial arts classes I was attending at least once daily every week which I have stopped going to for the month at least as I cannot afford to pay £53 for my Bus Pass and £50 for the classes a month on no money. - The point being she hasn't done herself any favours by saying she's paying for that when she knows I'm spending all my time bored out of my mind because I can't afford my one pleasure in life as I have been kicked off of jobseekers and cannot find a job that would suit it (i.e. a part time, daytime job). Now, the issue of the work programme is that it is not voluntary and the rules are such that you are meant to be put on it after a MINIMUM of 6 months, I was put on it after 2 and a half, which is against their rules. I was also put on it as a punishment, which is against their rules. In the 3 months I have been on JSA I have only received 3 payments, I should have received 6. I was sanctioned because of being EXACTLY 3 minutes late to a "Get Britain Working" meeting due to an ambulance obstructing the single lane traffic in the torn up wreckage that is Princes Street. Even after having explained this and asking if it was possible for them to still let me in, they refused. As a result I had my money cut (which is supposed to have been punishment enough as they are not allowed to punish you twice for the same thing). I was also "directed" to take part in a work placement provided by JHP, a company which operates out of a small room and is managed by one man. Had they sent me to A4E, which actually has it's own offices and a team of staff, I would not have been so angry. (I had been initially told if I was ever to be on a work programme I would be with either A4E or Atos) - When I had been directed to take part in this programme I was actually on a sick line and was unable to attend the meeting due to a severe ankle sprain. As I never attended this initial meeting I should have been called in for the same meeting again but I was not, I was sent a detailed work placement following a meeting that never happened (this happened twice) - Again another breech of protocol. Following all of this I was declared ineligible for work by my imbecilic adviser who told me that because I was a carer for my mum I could not work (this is obviously untrue as I can work but because the adviser had refused to do her job correctly from the first meeting we had, she claimed that I had not told her everything she needed to know, it is her job to ask the questions, not my job to volunteer information to someone I don't respect). Now that the explanation of that is over and done with I will try and explain what the problem is with finding employment.
- The short answer is, if you're not a student, you're out of work and you're 19 years old, people don't want to employ you. My qualifications are mediocre but did at least get me an interview with the Burton clothes group - meaning I am not doing anything wrong with my approach to applications. Secondly, the lack of work that is actually available in general is extremely high, it took my girlfriend a year and half after leaving education to find even part-time employment. Thirdly, If I am to continue studying martial arts to a capacity where I can actually make a career out of it, I absolutely NEED a daytime job to allow me to go to my classes, people that go to Uni to need to find Night work a lot of the time to pay for their studies, I need the opposite to pay for mine. That in mind the employment that is available to me to apply for is largely at night which is unsuitable, however I have applied for many night time jobs just to see how I'd get on and even they don't respond to me. Basically; the jobs that are available aren't suitable or aren't in reasonable travelling distance (i.e over 90 minutes each way, which is now not very far due to Edinburgh's catastrophic road work situation). I will also not work in a bar as I do not believe in alcohol, my Dad is not an alcoholic, I do not know why my Mum said that - I just don't drink it and I don't think anybody should.

Now, going to a work placement to work in a back room of a charity shop for no money, sitting from 9-5 pricing clothes all day is not going to help me get a job when I have 2 years worth of genuine work experience and 2 references available upon request for employers.

I do not appreciate being called workshy when I have worked for 2 years, I am obviously not workshy, if I could get a job do you people really think I'd put up with the shit from the job centre that I am going through, I am up there so regularly now that everyone in their knows me by face and name, is fucking me on a daily basis helping me into work? I think not.

Now, not to name names, but looking after children doesn't constitute employment and I imagine a great deal of contributers to a website called mumsnet, trying to act high and mighty are sitting at home in their owned houses watching the telly and surfing the net while their husbands are at work to support them while their kids are at school - I am not attacking anyone here with children under the age of 5, I can understand completely why you would not work when you have children under schooling age but after that, if you have the audacity to tell me that I am workshy, then you should get off your arse and get a job yourself.

In response to Whois - If you suck up the government trying to screw you over at every turn you will wind up a shell with no purpose in life wondering why you bother to get out of bed every morning. At every turn I have been systematically bullied. When I asked them to help me get a job they told me they couldn't. The JobCentre is supposed to help people into work, all they've done is "help" me off of the benefits system. I played the game for 2 months until I started to say enough is enough.

I hope this perhaps puts some perspective into this thread as I feel it was needed. I apologise if it is a little jumbled but there was a lot to address. The unemployed are people too, we don't like being on the dole and we do not appreciate the government removing jobs and then punishing us for being unemployed!

1sassylassy Fri 09-Nov-12 18:58:39

I live in a sleepy little town not a big city like you and when my son announced he wanted to leave college,he was told if you get a job you can leave,within 24 hours he had a signed up with a recruitment agency,three days later he had an induction day and within a week of applying had done three days work,two years down the line he is a permanent member of staff with that company,if he can do it in a high area of unemployment then I am sure you can find something in a big city,its all about the right attitude.

Inconceivable Fri 09-Nov-12 19:12:40

Fascinating. Good luck in your future. You will need it.

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 19:19:02

I'm wondering if either the OP or her son realises that 85% of jobs currently are filled by word of mouth and never even advertised.

Now he's posted I still think he sounds as though he has an unfortunate attiude and isn't being sufficiently proactive. Even if he has previous experiences and references they won't have currency for very long as the CV gap gets bigger. And his mother does sound as though she's infantalising him.

At 19 he should be capable of getting his CV reviewed, contacting companies and asking for a work trial, sourcing useful voluntary work etc. I wonder if he's received training in tailoring applications to job specifications? Has he taken advice on his personal statement? The average potential employer spends 8 seconds looking at it, so if it doesn't have immediate impact you go on the reject pile.

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 19:23:26

@1sassylassy - What job did your son get? You do realise the unemployment figures are at a record high and that it doesn't really matter whether you are in a small town or a big city, the jobs that I would have been likely to get 10 years ago with GCSE/Higher level qualifications are now going to people with degrees or studying for degrees, I do not really have very many options.

@ Inconceivable - I thank you for the wish of luck but would like to assure you there will be no need for it, might I ask what you do with your life and what your children are doing with theirs? Also if you are a man or a woman?

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 19:28:17

@ Ilovesooty, where did you get that statistic? That doesn't sound at all realistic as I do not know anyone that didn't get a job by applying for it online as that is now the way the world works and when you go into an employer that is what they tell you to do, with the exception of the CoOp and Pizza Hut, I have always been told, "You need to apply online". I spent 2 hours walking through Edinburgh today looking for vacancies, there was only one in the areas I crossed, at Ann Summers - I doubt they're going to employ me, a 19 year old man, to work in a Woman's Sex Shop.

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 19:32:45

I'm a National Careers Service advisor and that statistic was given out at a training session led by a nationally well known and extensively published independent consultant with 20 years experience in the career development field. I suspect her knowledge of the career market is superior to yours.

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 19:33:47

On the subject of labouring, I do not feel manual labour is for me, I have met labourers, I have served labourers - I know that is not the kind of job I am going to do. Yes I might be picky in the sense that I'll not do some kinds of jobs, but if I want to pursue what I want to do in life, something that so many people will spend their lives not doing, then I have to be. But even then, that is a very small part of the reason I do not have a job and 2.6 million (official) unemployed people would agree with me. Futhermore, people on income support and carer's allowance that are unemployed but are eligible for work, are not included in the unemployment figures - that is about another 1 - 2 million people. So really the amount of unemployed is around 3-5 million people in Britain. Are you all really going to tell me that even 2.6 million people are out of work because it's their own fault? Are you kidding me? Some of you must have been unemployed at some point in your lives, were you bad people when you were unemployed?

Goldeneyedog - in an ideal world, what sort of job would you like to do? What did you study at college?

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 19:37:24

"ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 19:32:45
I'm a National Careers Service advisor and that statistic was given out at a training session led by a nationally well known and extensively published independent consultant with 20 years experience in the career development field. I suspect her knowledge of the career market is superior to yours."

Utter bollocks, these figures are made up to make unemployed people seem useless, I hear a lot of these figures on BBC Parliament (remembering I have a lot of free time I get to hear a lot of this) and I know for a fact that when the ministers tip toe around questions of how the figures came about that they were actually not at all true. Having studied research and methods I can tell you that the research carried out was funded by a group with an agenda and the agenda of the group that funded it will have been to make it seem that jobs are 85% unlisted. - If I had the money I could fund an investigation to "prove" the opposite, none of these figures are ever actually reliable. As I have just said about the unemployment figures.

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 19:38:43

Now I learned this from an Edinburgh University lecturer, if you want to compare dick sizes about this, I think they know more than your superior.

Whoknowswhocares Fri 09-Nov-12 19:40:55

My my, what a charming young man. It's scarcely possible to believe that no employer has yet snapped you up.

Inconceivable Fri 09-Nov-12 19:41:53

Let's see, you don't want to work in a pub, do manual labouring, stickering for a charity, go in the army or travel too far.

I just had a quick google and there is enough unskilled jobs out there, particularly temporary for the Christmas season.

Yes, I think you are too picky and have an entitled attitude. I also know you are not going to take this on board and probably have some sort of excuse for it.

Not sure why it is relevant but I work fulltime, am female, married and have three young children.

andallthatjargon Fri 09-Nov-12 19:47:59

There IS work out there for people that want to work, we are constantly employing youngsters only for them to not turn up / walk out a few months later as they just don't want to be there (retail), there is a bad work ethic among young people nowadays.....

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 19:48:22

My my, what a charming young man. It's scarcely possible to believe that no employer has yet snapped you up

Absolutely. grin

So: you're rejecting all sorts of jobs because they're not want you want to do. You're insisting you're right, everyone else is wrong and there's some conspracy which means that it's everyone else's fault you're unemployed. That means you're justifying not being proactive or thinking creatively to address the problem.

BTW: the trainer isn't my "superior". Just one of the greatest experts in her field in the UK.

I said I wasn't coming back here, but dear lord! GoldeneyeDog .... Seriously. Wind your neck in. The world does not owe you, or anyone else, a living. I interview people for both junior and fairly senior posts quite regularly. I have rarely come across anyone with such a terribly entitled attitude as you do, I'm afraid. This is not character assassination by any manner of means, but I hope that you see this as constructive, as this is how it's meant.

You need to be way more realistic about what you are willing to do, I'm afraid. Then, once you've proved yourself more, you can ask for, or look for, these better opportunities. I wanted to work with the World Health Organization when I was a teenager - didn't mean I was going to only apt for those posts....

Oh, and before you start knocking me, as you have others.... Yes, I've been unemployed (including a very recent period of unemployment). It's not easy, but you have to suck it up and make an effort. I don't sit in a house spending 'my husband's money', as you suggest. I have always been the main wage earner in our relationship. My partner works hard, but his career path doesn't pay the way mine does. We share care of our daughter and we both work hard and earn the cash. I have 2 degrees and a professional qualification, and he has 2 degrees. We've worked hard to get where we are, but sometimes we had to do jobs which weren't our ideals.

And breathe.....

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 19:50:03

there is a bad work ethic among young people nowadays

To be fair: not all of them. Just arrogant entitled people like the one posting here whose mother endorses his attitude.

larks35 Fri 09-Nov-12 19:50:42

Any work experience will improve his CV, especially if he learns the trick of turning "stick price labels on stuff at the back of a char­ity shop" to "I've worked for X charitable organisation, where I was responsible for stock control, displays and trusted to use my initiative to consider what items were worth" or something like that.

The point is, he is someone with very limited work experience and having been offered a placement has decided he's over-qualified and over-experienced! What a twat!

I tell you what will continue to harm his CV - extended periods of inactivity.

OP, send him back to the Job Centre with his tail between his legs and a bit more humility, to beg for his placement back.

HeathRobinson Fri 09-Nov-12 19:52:55

' looking after children doesn't constitute employment'


StuntGirl Fri 09-Nov-12 19:53:36

GoldeneyeDog: You know that bad attitude everyone's been referring to throughout this thread?


GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 19:54:22

1) Why would I join the army and get shot at, are you insane?
2) I will not work in a pub as I do not believe in alcohol, if I were a muslim this would be accepted.
3) I will not do manual labouring as, quite frankly, if I can respond to you in such a well constructed manner, I am not supposed to be a manual labourer.
4) Stickering for a charity will not pay me, so why would I do that? It's not legitimate experience.
5) Travel too far, yes I don't fancy spending my life on the bus - If it's out of the 90 minute radius even the government says I shouldn't go further. The conservative, "get on your bike" government, says 90 minutes and no more.
6) It was relevant because I wanted to know if you were a man living on wife-support.

The responses everyone is getting from me is because they clearly have no idea what it's like to actually be unemployed in this day and age and have to deal with the dwp. Employers get a much better attitude, as far as employers know I'll do whatever work they want done - next.

Ideally I just want a job that I can do for between 16-23 hours a week that is during the day. As long as that job is not in fast food or working on a building site, I'm pretty much cool with anything. The main issue is hours, not the actual job. I studied a very psychology based Social Studies course, it was not actually what I had signed up for at college, the one unit of the course I wanted to study (Politics) was dropped from the course when the lecturer left at the start of my course. Was a complete waste of a year of my life.

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 19:55:27

larks35: absolutely. He obviously has no idea how to sell himself and demonstrate transferable skills. I doubt if he's done any serious work on this.

His CV will certainly suffer the longer he remains out of work and refuses to consider a range of options.

StuntGirl Fri 09-Nov-12 19:55:52

3) I will not do manual labouring as, quite frankly, if I can respond to you in such a well constructed manner, I am not supposed to be a manual labourer. shock

Trust me lad, those laborours are heads and shoulders above you!

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 19:57:27

"HeathRobinson Fri 09-Nov-12 19:52:55
' looking after children doesn't constitute employment'

ROFL!" - Do you think it does?

This is not a bad attitude to work that you are talking about, you are talking about my attitude to the right-wing idiots on this forum.

FairiesWearPoppies Fri 09-Nov-12 19:59:26

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

What about call centre work? I did loads of this and it funded me through university and travelling. Warm office, tea on tap and is usually better paid than retail/bar work.

And it isn't all selling, there are lots of inbound call centres.

HeathRobinson Fri 09-Nov-12 20:00:20

Nannies, nursery workers and childminders may hold a somewhat different opinion to you. wink

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 20:00:27

Some of you are talking about the army, would you let your kids join the army? Would you want your kids to be workies at the local construction site? I imagine not.

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 20:01:05

"Nannies, nursery workers and childminders may hold a somewhat different opinion to you." - HeathRobinson

Very well Heath, looking after YOUR OWN children does not constitute work.

StuntGirl Fri 09-Nov-12 20:01:46

Your bad attitude pervades throughout everything.

You will work anywhere - except pubs. And charity shops. And manual labour. And fast food places. Oh, and as long as it's within a certain mile radius. And doesn't take you too long to travel there. And is within certain hours. And allows you to focus on your hobby.

But you're not picky and entitled. Nope.

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 20:02:53

And what's wrong with doing a hard day's graft on a construction site?

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 20:03:22

Thank you @Ratherbeacyborg
Some call centre jobs can sometimes be okay, I have a very close friend who works in one that has only a zero hour contract and is lucky to get a couple of hundred pound a year from that job. Sometimes he goes months without work. But seriously, thank you for actually suggesting something real and not stupid, like the army. I do apply for call centre jobs but I have not had any replies from them.

TBH though work is work - you aren't what you do. If that makes sense. And taking a crappy job now doesn't mean you're committing to that as a career. Oh and please don't underestimate how highly-valued volunteer work is by potential employers.

FairiesWearPoppies Fri 09-Nov-12 20:03:48

I would let my dc join the army actually but then even at age 5 my dd is more mature, responsible and hard working than you!

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 20:06:24

If you're applying for jobs and not getting replies the quality of your applications may well need looking at. I note you haven't said anything about your CV, personal statement, or any support you've accessed with application technique.

honeytea Fri 09-Nov-12 20:07:55

Goodness Golden, you really are putting lots of lots of barriers up for yourself. With all due respect it isn't you who gets to decide if you are not supposed to be a manual labourer it is an elimiation process, if no one else wants you then you sometimes have to do something you don't want to do.

My brother lives in Edinburgh and he was in a simalar situation to you in as much as he wanted a part time job to help him fund his future. He never had any issues finding a job, he worked sorting out recycling, as a bin man, in a bar. Obviously he didn't wake up one day with a burning desire for to become a bin man but it gave him the money he needed to finish his masters in engineering and now he has an amazing job just a year after graduating and will be buying his first home at the start of next year. He isn't much older than you but the difference is that he is willing to do whatever it takes to get to where he wants. Our father is an alcoholic but that was not going to stop my brother working in a bar so he could follow his dreams.

As for not wanting to do work that doesn't pay you, why do you think you should be given money for free but you are not willing to give your time for free? Also why don't you want to travel? as you have said yourself you have have lots of time on your hands. You could read some books on politics.

Whoknowswhocares Fri 09-Nov-12 20:10:23

In all honesty no, I'd rather they didn't join the army. For purely selfish reasons.
Anything else is fair game IMO.

But you aren't just crossing that off the list. No pubs,labouring,volunteer work to help your cv, fast food shops and probably countless other things you are sure you are too good for. You come across as entitled, aggressive if things don't go your way and a bit of a prick! Exactly the sort of person any employer would be keen to avoid.

I'm not saying this to get at you. I have no interest in baiting a stranger. but seriously,what do you expect......your dream job is not going to come knocking at the door. You need to lower your expectations and go for ANY job and look to work your way up.

Or of course you could stick childishly to stamping your foot. But that won't get you anywhere will it?

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 20:11:33

@StuntGirl - I never said I wouldn't work in a charity shop, if you paid me I would. Nothing against charity shops, I just have a lot against slave labour, which the programme is. I am picky, I said that I have to be - not everything in this world is easy. If you don't just want to grow up, go to uni and get a 9-5 job everyone thinks you're unrealistic. Well it's not, my instructor makes a lot of money, he is the 3rd line of Bruce Lee's instructors and makes a fortune. - If I gain an instructorship under him I will easy be making that sort of money in 10 years time. - I will probably start in about 7 years time. Now - when a law course at uni is 7 years, the timescale is roughly the same, and they get jobs to fund their future jobs so why is what I'm doing any different? Why should I want anything less than the best for myself? You may be happy to settle for a 9-5 existence, I am not.

Now, on to being entitled. Having worked in a Café for 2 years, not really - but I am more intelligent than your average workie. I've served these people for ages and they are all guys from the dole who moved into construction because it was all they could do; lift things and hammer nails. There's nothing wrong with what they do, but it's not a field that people with intelligence enter anymore, there was a day for that, it is not like that anymore. The ones at the top aren't unintelligent , the ones at the position I would be at are. You know from the conversation that we are having that I am not stupid and that I didn't get into college by being an idiot.

FairiesWearPoppies Fri 09-Nov-12 20:12:59

I seriously hope you don't get another penny out of the government. You don't deserve it at all!

catsrus Fri 09-Nov-12 20:14:24

oh dear "goldeneyedog" I can see now why you haven't found work sad.

My then 19 yr old daughter walked the streets of a shopping centre in the next town handing out CVs and managed to get very part time work in an "old lady" type clothing store (2 x 4hr slots a week). She worked hard and buttered up a lot of old dears and got good sales so did well and got more hours, she started paying me rent. She saved and then went traveling and came back (of course with a good reference from her previous job) and got another sales job by word of mouth. She did that for 6 months and traveled again. When she came back a relative of the last employer asked her to work for them in a new cafe they had opened - because they knew she was a hard worker and good with customers.

She is now early 20's. She doesn't want to do this for the rest of her life - but she now has 3 good references and lots of contacts - people are keen to employ her because she has the right attitude. She's never applied for a job, never been on benefits. I have fed and housed her when she has not been working and has been looking for work, she has paid towards the household when she has been working.

She also has one male friend who seem to have your attitude and she is banging her head against a brick wall trying to get him to see that he needs to get his finger out and walk the streets to find work like she did. She had one dud job that came to nothing along the way and was no fun to do but didn't last long (and they went bust in the end).

Your mother will make sure you don't starve or freeze to death and have a bed to sleep in - and that is a huge plus. Use your privileged position as a base to go out and actually find some work, no matter how small. Good luck, but honestly you do need to get real.

ImaginateMum Fri 09-Nov-12 20:16:27

My BIL worked his way up from labouring work into an engineering apprenticeship and now a very senior management role on building sites. Currently he is being head hunted by teams in Dubai and Australia.

I could tell you similar stories of family members who started out at McDonalds, in supermarkets, in pubs and by volunteering.

No experience is beneath you. No job is beneath you. You need to dramatically shorten your list of things you won't do.

Again. I refer you to my point made previously. Work your way up. You have very low level qualifications, despite your self-perceived intelligence. If not, you will still be in this situation in 2, 5, 7 years. I cleaned hotel rooms when I had both an UG degree and a PhD, and 10 years work experience, because it was better than being unemployed, after I was made redundant. I also volunteered with an adult literacy project. That part was for my intellectual satisfaction. Just because something isn't your dream, 'forever' job, doesn't mean it won't be valuable in your life and experience.

StuntGirl Fri 09-Nov-12 20:18:43

I dunno, I think he's found his niche under his little bridge.

Ullena Fri 09-Nov-12 20:19:05


well he just had his jobcentre appointment , to sign back on, and was approached by two people to say 'have you ever thought about joining the army' 

WTF are the army recruiting in Job Centres these days 

He's come home saying 'I might go in the army , they pay and I wouldn't be unemployed'

(End quote)

Your mother was the one that mentioned your having expressed an interest in joining the armed forces. Perhaps you ought to go and reassure her that you really are not at all keen on the idea...

Anyhow, who here wants a biscuit?

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 20:20:18

So still no response about how you're addressing the quality of your applications.

And you come over as an appallingly entitled, arrogant snob. You think you're "intelligent" but obviously have little self awareness or understanding of how your attitude comes over.

And the clue is in the name: Jobseekers Allowance. It doesn't give you the right to handouts while you cherrypick what you'll do and won't do. Your stance is hugely insulting to the many people who would do anything to escape unemployment.

HermioneE Fri 09-Nov-12 20:20:53

You've ruled out places that serve alcohol, charity shops, manual labour, fast food, and the army. Did I miss any? YES you are being too picky and too entitled. I've just shortlisted a round of applicants for just-above-entry-level positions in office work. Exactly the kind of thing you're interested in but with that attitude you would not have made my cut.

Any experience, no matter what, is a benefit to the cv at your age. Two years' experience is not enough to get you hired in a lot of cases, as you are sadly finding out. The job centre's attitude might be shit but take what they offer- it's only hurting you, not them, if you turn them down.

Make sure your cv and cover letter are tailored for every job you apply for. You say that an interview for a retail position proves they are ok which worries me two ways. Firstly it implies you send the same application each time, which always turns off an employer. Secondly because you shouldn't feel your cv and cover letter are good enough until EVERY application is getting you to interview stage. Until that happens there is always something you can potentially improve.

Good luck.

Floggingmolly Fri 09-Nov-12 20:21:47

I will not work in a bar as I do not believe in alcohol. grin
You're wired to the moon, son.

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 20:23:15

Pubs - Yes again, I have a conscientious objection to working in a bar, why should I wast my time with alcoholics and people that want to spend their time getting drunk. As I have already said, If I were a Muslim this would not be an issue. Religious objections are respected in this country but conscientious ones are not.

Volunteer work - I never said I wouldn't volunteer, I said I wouldn't do FORCED LABOUR in a charity shop. I am not above volunteering, volunteering is a good thing - 4 weeks of slave labour is not. But once again, If I volunteer I won't get paid, so that's not really useful at the moment.

Fast Food - Those workers work harder than any of you posting and get paid a pittance for the blood, sweat and tears they expend at work. It is the most underpaid and under respected job in the world, they should all be paid at least £7.60 p/h for the work that they do. I will not work for £4.95 an hour to serve people at McDonalds.

Anything else is fine.
I have been working nightly for my dream job, it won't come knocking - I will earn that. There is very little respect in this forum, what do you think you lot are teaching your kids by treating someone young enough to be your son in this manner. Remember, I could be your boy, that wants to grow up and be a footballer - are you going to crush him and tell him; "Sorry son work 9-5, forget actually doing what you want to in life and conform with the rest of us". Just because I'm not studying to be a doctor or a lawyer does not mean what I'm doing is a just a hobby, most hobbies do not have job prospects but mine does.

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 20:24:01

Make sure your cv and cover letter are tailored for every job you apply for. You say that an interview for a retail position proves they are ok which worries me two ways. Firstly it implies you send the same application each time, which always turns off an employer. Secondly because you shouldn't feel your cv and cover letter are good enough until EVERY application is getting you to interview stage. Until that happens there is always something you can potentially improve

Well said - but I suspect he thinks he's too intelligent to listen to good advice.

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 20:24:48

@ HermoineE - You would know the attitudes of your potential employees as you don't get to know them before they work for you, what is it with you people that seem to think the employer is going to come round for dinner before I get an interview?

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 20:25:49

Make sure your cv and cover letter are tailored for every job you apply for. You say that an interview for a retail position proves they are ok which worries me two ways. Firstly it implies you send the same application each time, which always turns off an employer. Secondly because you shouldn't feel your cv and cover letter are good enough until EVERY application is getting you to interview stage. Until that happens there is always something you can potentially improve. " - Yes that is all done.

HermioneE Fri 09-Nov-12 20:26:21

'there is very little respect in this forum' - honey, you're not earning it. Like many things, it doesn't come for free. You have had a lot of constructive criticism, at least one offer to look at your cv and at least two direct pointers towards places to look for work, so far. How about showing some respect?

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 20:27:06

If I volunteer I won't get paid, so that's not really useful at the moment

You just don't get it, do you?

Those workers work harder than any of you posting

How on earth do you know?

Floggingmolly Fri 09-Nov-12 20:28:43

I am more intelligent than your average workie
I have no idea what you would define as a "workie", but you're almost certainly deluded in that, too.

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 20:28:52

It obviously isn't "all done" sufficiently well if you are getting no interview offers whatsoever.

Whoknowswhocares Fri 09-Nov-12 20:30:26

And for the record, yes if you were my son I'd tell you to get off your entitled backside and take whatever job you could get. Life's tough, deal with it!

HermioneE Fri 09-Nov-12 20:30:27

Attitude should hopefully be coming through on your cover letter. Several people have posted examples of a hardworking 'will do anything' attitude reaping rewards.

stinkinseamonkey Fri 09-Nov-12 20:33:21

"if I can respond to you in such a well constructed manner, I am not supposed to be a manual labourer"

Your repsonses make you sound like an unemployable wanker!

My DH did labouring, bar work and care work in between is BSc and his Masters, he didn't find a lack of intelligent conversation on the sites, and being a pro-active "yes man" with a work ethic is what got his his posh professional job

stinkinseamonkey Fri 09-Nov-12 20:34:01

(plus he had a choice of great references from the kinds of jobs you're turning your nose up at, which got him his dream job)

HermioneE Fri 09-Nov-12 20:35:14

I'd definitely give the fast food another thought. Due to high staff turnover it can be relatively quick to progress through to a supervisor level if you've demonstrated the right skills and intelligence to your employers. Then ok the pay still won't be great, but you can start to access management experience, financial skills, even something you can dress up as project management experience if you're pushy. You won't enjoy it I'm sure, but long term it could help a lot.

helpyourself Fri 09-Nov-12 20:35:32

You know what, I think the system is working in this case. It's Job Seeker's Allowance. With so many restrictions on what you're prepared to do, it would be ridiculous if you received it. You're not really available for work are you?
OP much as your attitude stinks, you're obviously not stupid- why are you not going to university? You could continue with your martial arts by doing a sports science, leisure management or teaching degree. Lots of elite sports people also join the forces as they are very accommodating of time off.

Almostfifty Fri 09-Nov-12 20:36:38

My son, who is applying to university next year, is currently walking the streets trying to get people signed up for insulation rather than be on JSA after over a year of trying to get a job. He's going out of the house at half eight at the morning and coming home at half eleven so that he's got a job rather than sign on.

This time next year he'll be at university hopefully.

FairiesWearPoppies Fri 09-Nov-12 20:57:53

May I enquire as to why you believe you are of above average intelligence?

Groovee Fri 09-Nov-12 21:08:41

A friends husband works in Ann Summers. Nowt wrong with that.

Get yourself to the Gyle. Plenty jobs going there. You can get the vacancies guide from customer service.

My husband has been laid off twice this year and applied for every job he could.

ImaginateMum Fri 09-Nov-12 21:09:15

When I was ninteen, I worked at McDonalds. That is why I can now tell you that, at nineteen, you should possibly do the same!

It may be a low wage initially but it gives you:
- experience
- a chance to build up a track record of work willingness
- training
etc, etc

They are very good at spotting talent and training intelligent people up and moving them up quickly. Did you know their managers make £45k?

They are also very flexible hours-wise.

You do realise that you are effectively asking us as tax payers to fund your aversion to pubs, fast food, etc. Some of the people funding your JSA will be doing so at jobs you will not deign to consider doing yourself. Do you think that is fair?

MysteriousNameChange Fri 09-Nov-12 21:17:43

One piddly course doesn't make you above the intelligence of the average labourer. I know building contractors, plumbers and so on who all earn a fortune and are bright with it.

You're judging too much - us, people in jobs you don't want to do.

It is very hard to find part time work. I know because I have looked for it as well. I have an excellent degree and years of work in respected industries, but it's a struggle to find an office job in my home town. But I keep looking and I apply for stuff that doesn't even seem 100% me on the job ad, because I tell myself it's worth finding out more at interview.

If you want money, just do the fast food job or what have you to pay for your hobby. You can leave it off your CV if you really want!

Groovee Fri 09-Nov-12 21:20:23

Oh and I don't look after children, I educate them in their early years.

Shenanagins Fri 09-Nov-12 21:36:38

The more i think about this thread the more i think its a troll.

if it really isn't take a step back and read through the comments as there was a lot of good advice to help especially from some of us who know what recruiters are looking for in this tough environment and trust me right now with your attitude and experience you don't stand a chance.

as for my child becoming a workie i would be over the moon as that is so much better than being like you. tbh if i lost my very well paid job i would have no qualms at becoming a cleaner, none at all.

lizziebach Fri 09-Nov-12 21:36:57

I feel sorry for your son, it is very hard being unemployed at the moment and there isn't much out there and it is soul destoying looking for work and just getting rejected all the time and being made to feel like you are not good enough. I think the sanction for being late because of an accident is ridiculous and clearly not going to help teach your son anything about work life. In fact if this was a job and you'd come one here to ask if was unreasonable for your son to have got a disciplinary for being three minutes late to work because of an accident you would have got some different answers.
However he shouldn't have walked off the job placement. The person who told him he was being punished has an attitude that stinks but your son should have reported him higher up rather than putting himself in a poisition where his bad behaviour overshadows the one who behaved badly in the first place.
I think he needs to understand that whilst working in a charity shop may make it obvious he was unemployed, surely a blank gap on his CV is going to look even worse?
I think he just has to play the game unfortunately and keep his fingers crossed he doesn't have to do it for much longer.

Shenanagins Fri 09-Nov-12 21:37:48

Actually can't believe I've wasted precious time trying t help someone so ungrateful.

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 21:38:56

@Almostfifty " after over a year of trying to get a job." - So he WAS on JSA for a year, I've only been on it 3 months. Selling insulation? That's not really a job as it's commission only and he'll get turned away most places he goes. And he's not at uni? Still living with you perhaps is he? So he couldn't get work either then? I could get a commission based job in a second, I'm not doing that. And because JSA exists I am allowed to choose what jobs I want, you obviously don't know how JSA works, you have 3 areas which you have to apply for, only 3 and you are allowed to only apply for 3 fields. Learn the system before you start saying it's working, the DWP agrees with my restrictions!

Bogeyface Fri 09-Nov-12 21:40:14

Nothing better of a Friday night than a snotty know it all kid telling grown women to get off their arses!

I run my own business and I would give him the time of day, never mind a job, with that attitude.

OP, you must be sooo proud hmm

Bogeyface Fri 09-Nov-12 21:40:38

wouldnt give him the time of day.

Bogeyface Fri 09-Nov-12 21:41:39

I could get a commission based job in a second, I'm not doing that.

Is there anything you are actually prepared to fucking do, Little Lord Fauntleroy?! FFS.....

hiding this shit now.

Some of you are talking about the army, would you let your kids join the army? Would you want your kids to be workies at the local construction site? I imagine not.

If my DS grows up and wants to join the army or work on a construction site, I'll be proud. If he turns out like you I'll be mortified.

1sassylassy Fri 09-Nov-12 21:52:51

@1sassylassy - What job did your son get? You do realise the unemployment figures are at a record high and that it doesn't really matter whether you are in a small town or a big city,
in a city,there are more retail opportunities,more call centres and more catering establishments ,so dont tell me that the job opportunities are equal to a small town with a population of approx 20,000.

You asked what job my son got,he went packing ice cream,sometimes scheduled work,sometimes standby when he would be rung at 5 am for a 6 am start.As I said before he was polite,hard working with a good attitude,the company soon saw this and offered him a permanent position,training him to take his Forklift licence.It might not be the most exciting job or the best paying job in the world but it pays enough to run a car and generally enjoy life.
If you have no dependents then you can do agency work,even if you only get one full day a week it pays more than the dole but from what you have written on here,you seem to want a high paying job for little effort,if you were my son I would tell you to wise up and grow up,the world doesnt owe you a living.

FWIW I have three ds,s and none have them have ever been out of work for more than a few days since leaving school,but then they were bought up with a good attitude and a good work ethic.

Floggingmolly Fri 09-Nov-12 21:55:14

You are allowed to only apply for 3 fields
So... the JSA officers would actively prevent you applying for a job outside your "chosen" (!) fields, have I got that right?
Who knew.

My DS does a labouring job during the Uni holidays. He is very intelligent indeed and is looking to complete postgraduate degrees. If he had this horrible, arrogant entitled attitude, he would get a virtual kick in the posterior!

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 22:02:01

And because JSA exists I am allowed to choose what jobs I want

Only for a very limited period of time. And after 13 weeks they can require you to attend a work programme.

Oh...and in order to be eligible for JSA you have to be available for work 40 hours a week. I don't see how that fits in with your desire only to do p/t work.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 22:03:19

You entitled little fuck.

One of those workies was offering you a start. One of those workies who is less than ten years older than you is so a position to offers people work.

You've done what? An hnc? In a vague non vocational subject.

<slow handclap>

I done one of them whilst working and looking after 2 kids.

Onesingularsensation Fri 09-Nov-12 22:03:59

I'm sorry for you OP. Your son is entitled, arrogant, inexperienced in life and deluded.

Dog, you may think you are coming across as an intelligent young man with well thought out and eloquently expressed opinions - however you are coming across as a spoiled little boy. If you we're to read this back in 10 years time I can guarantee you would hang your head in shame at the offensive and ridiculous comments you have made. You would also be mortified at the arrogance and bad attitude displayed throughout your posts.

The world does not owe you. Get a job, grow up and learn what life is really about.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 22:06:32

So it's all beneath you is it? Because you can string a sentence together?

What you looking for? I work in social work/community education and it's grim out there, even for those that are fully qualified. (note fully, not one year qualifications)

helpyourself Fri 09-Nov-12 22:08:04

I can think of 5 friends/ relatives who earn £150k+ without exception they all got where they are doing jobs you look down on or reject, including forces. Another friend has her dream job; she got it by working in retail where she was utterly miserable, but paid the bills and volunteering on her day off to get relevant experience.
Stop thinking the world owes you a living and get out there.

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 22:09:29

If you we're to read this back in 10 years time I can guarantee you would hang your head in shame at the offensive and ridiculous comments you have made. You would also be mortified at the arrogance and bad attitude displayed throughout your posts

I wouldn't hold your breath. He'd have to develop some maturity and self - awareness first.

The world does not owe you

Unfortunately he seems to think that with his limited qualifications and experience that it does, and he should be able to accept handouts while he picks and chooses.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 22:16:30

Is your instructor Hamish by any chance?

1sassylassy Fri 09-Nov-12 22:18:00

* Learn the system before you start saying it's working*
well you obviously havent because if you had you wouldnt be on a JSA sanction.

stinkinseamonkey Fri 09-Nov-12 22:19:15

Pretty much every well off professional I know including doctors and lawyers etc at some point did retail/hotel/care/labouring/kitchen/porter/call centre etc work, are they unintelligent? how can all those jobs be filled with people who are thicker than you if they were right of passage for everyone I know who "made it"?

honeytea Fri 09-Nov-12 22:19:30

Remember, I could be your boy, that wants to grow up and be a footballer - are you going to crush him and tell him; "Sorry son work 9-5, forget actually doing what you want to in life and conform with the rest of us" I'm not old enough to have been your babysitter nevermind your mother.

If my child at 19 still thinks that he will be able to be a footballer then great so long as he has a plan B. There is nothing wrong with wanting to do something different but you have to realise that on your journy to your dream job you might have to drop your high standards a little and actually work for your dream.

When I was 19 I worked in a photo priting shop every summer, no air con and south facing window, it was so hot I'd go home and shower at lunch some days. I worked ever weekend and every weekday apart from mondays and got paid very little. I finished my degree in photography the week before I turned 21. Photography is a bloody hard industry to get a start in, by the time I left uni I had a job in a studio, I then moved to Australia to work at a studio there, I won international awards for my photography. If I had turned my nose up at working long hours printing people's fucking dull holiday snaps I would still be sitting in my mum's house wasting my life away which is what you seem to be doing.

I must say I feel very very sorry for your poor mother, goodness she must feel embarrassed.

helpyourself Fri 09-Nov-12 22:23:18

Don't feel sorry for Mum- she admits in her first post she contributed to his attitudes towards the 'system' hmm

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 22:25:19

" Learn the system before you start saying it's working"
well you obviously havent because if you had you wouldnt be on a JSA sanction


mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 22:27:45

Oh yeah and just so my mp and council leader don't waste their time on this I've emailed them both a link.

honeytea Fri 09-Nov-12 22:31:28

Don't feel sorry for Mum- she admits in her first post she contributed to his attitudes towards the 'system' hmm

Can you imagine how much you would feel like the last 19 years were a fucking waste if your kid behaved like OP's son. It must be her fault people are not born as rude as this young man, but I do feel sorry for her, you get one chance at being a mum, maybe she can give us some tips as to how to avoid this outcome..

Afrodizzywonders Fri 09-Nov-12 22:32:10

Goldeneyedog, I've not read every post on here......have you thought about trying to set up your own business? You sound like a person, with the right steer could do it. Just takes determination, you don't need the job centre ( I set up 3 businesses, my own boss, don't take crap from anyone). I did it on peanuts.

Afrodizzywonders Fri 09-Nov-12 22:34:02

Saying that, I waited tables.....worked continental shifts in factories whilst funding college....but it can be done.

Floggingmolly Fri 09-Nov-12 22:34:16

Well, he'll be fine on the "don't take crap from anyone" bit...

Afrodizzywonders Fri 09-Nov-12 22:37:04


Whoknowswhocares Fri 09-Nov-12 22:37:37

Indeed, no crap will be taken!

The bloody hard work, determination and daily grind might well be a bit of a stretch though

helpyourself Fri 09-Nov-12 22:38:52

honeytea I'm sure she's proud of his integrity and not being bossed around. It's incredibly depressing how people keep themselves down. sad generation after generation.

marriedinwhite Fri 09-Nov-12 22:40:44

My son is an overprivileged little git in the opinions of many. Attends one of the UK's most elite schools, lives a comfortable life in which he is loved and pandered to. However at nearly 18 and in the U6 he has done the following:

16 - spent a summer caddying - getting up at 6am and being at the course by 7am - two rounds a morning and often earning £100+ by 2pm.

17 - when he wasn't caddying, he did the equivalent of three weeks childcare for 11 year old twin boys at £70 per day and has had plenty of offers from other families as a result.

From 16 on he has had a good babysitting round and sits about twice a month (could sit about 10 times but school work and his own social life prevail) and pulls down about £50-£60ish from it.

In the hols does the odd bit of caddying still.

Has done six days in a local charity shop as part of the school based work experience and thoroughly enjoyed it (apart from the fleas).

Natural grafter and nice with it. If he doesn't think he's above menial stuff then I really don't see why others would. I am pretty sure he will be happy to do a summer on the "bins" or on a building site to earn some money and wanted to join the TA but pressures of school work have made him have a rethink for the time being.

The day after the London riots he went down to Clapham with a few mates to help tidy up.

Those who think they are above work really need to get real. His father and I did all sorts of menial jobs as teenagers; our work ethic is what has provided our dc with the privileges they have.

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 22:41:22

You are allowed to only apply for 3 fields
So... the JSA officers would actively prevent you applying for a job outside your "chosen" (!) fields, have I got that right?
Who knew.

- That is true actually, I don't agree it with it either.

"And because JSA exists I am allowed to choose what jobs I want

Only for a very limited period of time. And after 13 weeks they can require you to attend a work programme.

Oh...and in order to be eligible for JSA you have to be available for work 40 hours a week. I don't see how that fits in with your desire only to do p/t work."

- Not true, after 13 weeks you are put on the work programme which requires you to attend meetings with partners such as A4E, all that is an appointment a month with them, I know someone on it. After 1 and a half years they can put you on force labour for 25 weeks.

- And you do not have to be available for 40 hours, you have to be available for 16 hours minimum, my agreement is 21 hours maximum.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 22:43:05

Why only 21 hours a week?

MidniteScribbler Fri 09-Nov-12 22:43:25

Oh my god. What a loser.

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 22:43:36

@Marriedinwhite, he'll have done those jobs because he wanted money - I don't live extravagantly and I could live quite comfortably on about £70 a week with a job, I really do not need 40 hours work a week for what I want to do.

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 22:44:07

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 22:43:05
Why only 21 hours a week?

Because of my caring duties.

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 22:44:41

I shouldn't even be on JSA - I should be on income support and carer's allowance but because of how long everything takes to process I have to claim JSA.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 22:45:05

What caring? Have I missed something?

helpyourself Fri 09-Nov-12 22:46:34

Anyhow, you've lost it haven't you.

Now why don't you stop whining at how unfair it all is and do something for yourself. Get back into education, get a labouring job, move to Abderdeen.

Afrodizzywonders Fri 09-Nov-12 22:47:33

Perhaps his efforts are better directed setting something up business wise for himself than getting Argo with 'the system'. We can get annoyed with the attitude, but sometimes, with the right direction, people can get on. Wish I'd done it sooner. I never claimed benefits but am first to admit that I was best off going solo in business due to personality. In these times more entrepreneurs should be in the making.....

honeytea Fri 09-Nov-12 22:48:46

Integrity is all very well and good but if your morals include taking money for free but not being willing to do volentry work for free, thinking all "workies" are thick and telling women that looking after their own children is not work then the fact that he has the integrity to uphold these morals in unfortunate.

£280 a month in Edinburgh. Yeah right. Wouldn't even pay rent on a room in a shared flat. Never mind bills. I'm assuming you'd still be having your mother support you. Great ambition.

helpyourself Fri 09-Nov-12 22:52:41

You little idiot, you can only live on £70 quid a week because you're bankrolled by mum and the tax payer.
I work with long term unemployed and live in an area of great deprivation where sometimes it seems as if everyone is claiming benefits, and I have never begrudged it before now as I've always believed its a safety net I or anyone I love could need one day.
Thank you for educating me.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 22:54:01

So what is it you actually want to do?

honeytea Fri 09-Nov-12 22:55:31

mrskeithrichards I think he wants to become kung foo panda.

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 22:57:25


DD would bloody love it if I was Kung Fu Panda. That made me laugh like a drain, honeytea smile

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 22:58:02

Wtf emoticon FAIL!!!

mrskeithrichards Fri 09-Nov-12 23:02:45

My dh is even laughing at that one honeytea

TandB Fri 09-Nov-12 23:04:29

Add message | Report | Message poster honeytea Fri 09-Nov-12 22:55:31
mrskeithrichards I think he wants to become kung foo panda.

You called?

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 23:04:52

I am not going to move to Aberdeen, you have missed something - I was declared ineligible for work because of being a carer by an advisor at the Job Centre however I have since reclaimed and have a restricted agreement. At £280 I would qualify to have my rent paid and get working tax credits so yes I could quite comfortably live on that without living with my Mum.

GoldeneyeDog Fri 09-Nov-12 23:06:36

"helpyourself Fri 09-Nov-12 22:52:41
You little idiot, you can only live on £70 quid a week because you're bankrolled by mum and the tax payer.
I work with long term unemployed and live in an area of great deprivation where sometimes it seems as if everyone is claiming benefits, and I have never begrudged it before now as I've always believed its a safety net I or anyone I love could need one day.
Thank you for educating me."

I was on SAAS which is the same amount of money before hand, have you got a problem with people getting paid to attend college ? I worked through that AND got SAAS.

TandB Fri 09-Nov-12 23:08:01

I don't know why everyone is bothering with the OP or her son, if that is who he really is.

The OP has ignored most suggestions and come back to some perfectly reasonable questions with snarky comments. Her son has bitched and whinged and ignored all suggestions.

Clearly they don't need Mumsnet's crap advice - I'm sure they'll do just fine on their own.

Because it's worked out so well so far.....

Whoknowswhocares Fri 09-Nov-12 23:08:59

You could not live quite comfortably on £280 a month. It is the minimum you would require to leech off the rest of us.
For now. Thankfully the rules are being tightened bit by bit to stop parasites such as yourself with no shame scamming the system designed for those in GENUINE need

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 23:11:15

Not true, after 13 weeks you are put on the work programme

So? I said after 13 weeks you can be required to attend a work programme.

What "caring duties" do you have that preclude f/t work?

And I agree that you are only being able to be so picky because your mother is bankrolling you. Presumably if you're her carer she doesn't work, so where is the money coming from to enable your sense of entitlement?

honeytea Fri 09-Nov-12 23:11:45

The panda has good advice!

I am a little hooked to reading the comments to try to get tips as to how to avoid bringing up such a young person.

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 23:15:21

Thankfully the rules are being tightened bit by bit to stop parasites such as yourself with no shame scamming the system designed for those in GENUINE need

Unfortunately the tightening of the rules is having a distressing impact on many in real need. All because of the mindset of selfish, grabby, arrogant little boys like this one.

TandB Fri 09-Nov-12 23:16:38

My 3 year-old refused to get dressed this morning, and claimed he was too tired to walk down the stairs.

Clearly he is on the start of the slippery slope.

[Signs DS1 up for bootcamp asap]

I dont suppose that there is any point pointing out that Sir Colin Moynihan worked in a brewery, shovelling malt as a student, and that Lord Alan Sugar worked in a greengrocer and sold stuff out of the back of a knackered old van?

Or that my first job, 21 years ago, involved throwing sticky toy bugs at a wall for £2 an hour? 10 years later I qualified as a lawyer.

helpyourself Fri 09-Nov-12 23:17:58

Don't get snippy with me; I certainly don't have a problem with benefits while studying. Scrapping the EMA was an outrage. My point is although I know many people in the system in real life, this is the first time I've felt really resentful.

Whoknowswhocares Fri 09-Nov-12 23:20:31

I quite agree ilovesooty and I wasn't implying that the majority deserve such treatment.... Just the entitled parasites such as this little charmer
It's a real shame that they can't sort out a proper system which weeds out the scum without harming the genuine claimants. No idea what the solution is though?

ilovesooty Fri 09-Nov-12 23:23:22

Whoknowswhocares it's ok: knew you weren't implying that. wink

I don't know the solution either, but it's leeches like him who drive policy where genuine claimants end up suffering.

JessePinkman Fri 09-Nov-12 23:28:55

Golden you sound like a wally. My dh was 19 when we moved in together. He worked for a betting shop in a less salubrious part of town (Kilburn). Baby at 20, he got a different job, due to his good work history. He now earns £10k per month. In the meantime I have worked in nursing homes doing cleaning and kitchen help, I've worked in supermarkets serving people and learning humility.

I would work in any shop again, my dh would go back to betting shops, if we could anything is better than being too good for the worst job.

A lot of people might have jobs that you would like, but to get there have taken jobs that nobody would like.

JessePinkman Fri 09-Nov-12 23:33:58

Oh and my last job was a well paid banking job too. The experience I gained in service stood me well until I was working on a portfolio in trading and treasury. Really don't undermine those crappy jobs. They might not be fun at the time but they are valuable training. I think the most important lesson is 'how to deal with people' if you come across as nice and helpful it will further your interests.

VodkaKnockers Fri 09-Nov-12 23:49:02

I can feel a ban coming on!

You over entitled selfish little ARSEHOLE!!!!!!

I have read this thread and my blood and piss is well an truly boiled!!!!

Why the fuck should I be funding your "jobsearch" with my tax money?

There is plenty of jobs out there that you have deigned yourself above. Well guess what? I don't give a shit!!!

My youngest DSis is the same age is you. She is currently doing a 4yr degree and working at least 20hr a week in a call centre to support herself. She is living in Student digs which she is paying for herself as she does not qualify for ANY help!

She has worked every fucking day since leaving school, as well as being a carer for our GM who has vascular dementia!

So don't tell me there is no jobs! You just don't want to look for them, you lazy little arsehole!!!!!

FWIW, Dsis and me both live in Glasgow, a mere 55mins by train from Edinburgh, frequency of every 15mins, and there is plenty of jobs through here.

VodkaKnockers Fri 09-Nov-12 23:51:03

Also, when I was your age, I had a full time job in banking, my own flat, doing my degree and looking after DS1 single handedly.

Which was not so long ago

ilovesooty Sat 10-Nov-12 00:46:57

Vodka your little sister sounds amazing. Good luck to her.

VodkaKnockers Sat 10-Nov-12 01:00:11

She is amazing ilove.

It unfortunate that idiots like Goldeneye give young adults a bad name.

Apologies to all MNers for my rant above. OP son really fucked me off.

Bogeyface Sat 10-Nov-12 01:14:17

Vodka you might want to scroll back and see my rant. It is people like him that are making life next to impossible for people like your sister and my son sad

VodkaKnockers Sat 10-Nov-12 01:24:47

Unfortunately I know a few people like the OP son.

Its always excuses.

My DSis realised very quickly that you cannot pick and choose jobs. When she couldn't find paid work, she did voluntary work in a charity shop. She hasn't tried to find a job relating to her degree as she is realistic but she has bills to pay like us all and went out and found a job. It maybe a callcentre but it's money.

When I was 19, I struggled to juggle a child, a full time job and a degree but I managed it because I had to support myself and my son. I didn't have the bank of mummy and daddy to fund my lifestyle.

Cahoots Sat 10-Nov-12 01:32:58


I may well employ someone with the right attitude but who wasn't that intelligent but I would NEVER employ someone if they had a BAD attitude, regardless of how intelligent they were.

goldeneyedog. You need to change your approach, stop being angry at the world and thinking you are too good to do things. You sound bitter.

ihavenonameonhere Sat 10-Nov-12 01:56:24


I think I need to walk away cause this thread has wound me up so much!!

You werent working for free, you were getting JSA and if you didnt like it then fine just dont expect the taxpayer to help you out!

GoldeneyeDog Sat 10-Nov-12 02:41:55

JSA is not there to be worked for, none of the benefits are. I am classified as in need. To the person that said your sister cares for your Gran, why aren't you caring for her? If she's studying and younger than you then it should be you doing it. She doesn't qualify for help because she is a student and if you're a student you don't get benefits unless you are disabled, which is just plain wrong. If it were any of your husbands in this position and they were being sanctioned for things outwith their control and being made to go on these positions I can assure you that your approach to this would be different. Lets hope for your sake, that the work doesn't dry up one day. This is the last time I am responding to this thread. I am the son of the OP - I don't know what kind of idiot conspiracy theorist you are trying to be claiming I'm not. And all of you can get off your high horse about being "the taxpayer" - the tax rate is extremely low, taxes should be far higher for all of you upper middle class wankers in their 40s - It is not the same now as when you grew up, learn this for your children's sake.

Good grief.

Drop the attitude. You are not 'above' any job and until you understand that you don't deserve a penny of anybody's money, the taxpayers or your mothers.

Have just read the entire thread (sitting on my middle class, mid thirties, pregnant arse over here in Australia), and have come to the conclusion that this cannot be real! Surely there aren't really such entitled, disgustingly unpleasant adolescents out there? Yuk yuk yuk. Unfortunately, and I really never thought I'd say this, but this sort of attitude has made me well and truly glad to have left the uk, so that neither mine nor my husbands tax money ever again contributes to bank rolling self righteous, arrogant little wankers like the OP's son in his fruitless 'search' for work! And it really makes me so so sad to even think that way, as I really believe in the benefits system to support those who need it when truly in need.

This thread has also further inspired me to do everything in my power to ensure that if it takes every last breath in my body, I will never, ever let any of my four sons turn out like the op's son. They will grow up with humility, willingness, and a work ethic, and to want to be the best they can, and to understand that this takes bloody hard work, and never the easy route.

May need to hide this thread now, as it has utterly jaded my day.

Pantah630 Sat 10-Nov-12 07:00:09

The more I've read, the more like a Daily Mail reader I've become. Feeling sorry for your Mum as she knows she has planted the seeds of your entitled attitude in your head, she will be reaping the benefits for a while I think.

For those upthread worried the army is preying on youngsters in the Job Centre. In the 80's the armed forces were in attendance in schools on careers day, i assume they still are. It's a legitimate career, more dangerous than most others given the current situation, but still a job with excellent training and career progression, not all lead to the front line. If our children are in the job centres, it's because they're adults and able to make their own minds up. The nanny state seems to have slipped into our homes through the back door. Will we still be wiping their arses at 30? I hope not.

goldeneyeDog lose the attitude, you're unlikely to find work until you do. I wouldn't employ you, luckily as you won't get your hands dirty mechanics is unlikely to be in your repertoire. As a mother, if my either of my DS's had your entitled attitude, I'd feel I'd failed. Make your Mum proud pull your finger out and take the next available job, even if it's pot washing, you can continue your search for something better while working, it's not hard, the Internet is open 24/7 for job searches and you'll be earning while you hunt. Good luck.

scrablet Sat 10-Nov-12 07:31:45

Well done.
Don't care if you are 'real' or your mum is 'real'.
Whatever is behind this is a prat.
Hope you had fun.

1sassylassy Sat 10-Nov-12 07:34:56

I am classified as in need,the only thing you are in need of is a kick in the pants to change your entitled attitude.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Sat 10-Nov-12 07:42:57

So much to comment on.

I am unsure thought how hr can justify using caring for his mother as a justification for not getting a fulltime job. Since hr believes caring for your own children isn't work, surely neither is caring for your own mother.
op you must be so proud of your son.

Do you see what his problem is? You said you don't make excuses for him in rl, but you lie on here for for him? Perhaps that's the problem.

golden you are coming across as a cock. When you have raise your own children you can have an opinion. There's a good boy.
as for the jobs why have you applied to pizza hut and co op when both sell alcohol?
I only know one Muslim who would mot work where alcohol is being served and he took any other work he could.
General opinion among my Muslim friends is that while they choose to not drink, that is not something they impose on others. Others are free to do as they wish.

Why don't you give us a list of jobs you will do?

manticlimactic Sat 10-Nov-12 08:09:02

Jeez, what a knobhead.

Where's the OP?Disappeared? Mind you, if I were her I'd have namechanged as I'd be so ashamed if my child had been posting with such an attitude.

RubyGates Sat 10-Nov-12 08:11:24

Christmas in Edinburgh and none of the big shops/ delivery companies/ post office taking on extra staff?

Perfect time of the year for a 19yo to find a job to stick on his CV and prove to the JS that he's ready, willing and able to work.

Good job it's nearly Christmas or he'd be stuffed with an attitude like that.

Seriously? I cannot believe you attitude Golden and it's no wonder people are calling you entitled.

I came out of college for the second time with a diploma in childcare, I couldn't find a single job in the childcare area because, despite having worked in placements for two years through my course, I didn't have the level of experience they wanted. I ended up claiming JSA for around six months and applied for everything and anything I could find. I ended up getting a job as a support worker for adults with learning disabilities which is not the chosen field I was looking for but I'm damn grateful to have it and I certainly wouldn't refuse it because it's not the ideal job that I wanted.

I'm really not surprised that the JSA have sent you a P45 and you are most definitely BU.

mrskeithrichards Sat 10-Nov-12 08:18:31

Goldeneye I'm not in my 40's, I'm closer to your age than I am 40. You're the one in need of a dose of reality.

They work has dried up for my husband, more than once in the past 3 years. He took a head down arse up approach and got on with it. He even took a labouring job for a couple of weeks. There was a lot of work he couldn't get because he was over qualified. Potential employers would turn him down knowing with his skills and qualifications he'd be chasing the money again as soon as things picked up. So that's why he'd take whatever agency work was comin his way.

I work as well, always have. Staying at home with babies isn't for me and I work part time in a field I love. You have the luxury of choices when you can hand over a cv with no employment gaps in it for over ten years in your twenties.

mrskeithrichards Sat 10-Nov-12 08:20:43

But what would my husband know he's just a dumb workie?

who offered you a job but it's quite obviously beneath you

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Sat 10-Nov-12 08:25:18

Have a brew, MrsKeith. Don't take it personally. He's a stroppy teenager who's had a lot to deal with - read this.

mrskeithrichards Sat 10-Nov-12 08:33:00

Oh my

Himalaya Sat 10-Nov-12 08:34:27


I wish you every luck in your quest to become a martial arts instructor. You have an idea of what you want to do which is great, and you should go for it. The most important thing therefore is to find a solution where you are training realisticly for this goal and also have enough money to support yourself until it starts to pay. Presumably it doesn't take 7 years before you can earn money in your vocation? Even lawyers are earning before this.

At the moment you have made a plan that involves finding PT work (or perhaps the underlying plan is to set yourself such limitations about work and give out such attitude that you are unemployable?). Whatever. Nevermind the DWP's requirements, if this plan doesn't work to get you on a fast track to martial arts instructorship within a few months then you need to change the plan.

I know plenty of smart, angry people who spent their twenties learning how to work the benefits system, but not how to get on. It is not a good outcome.

You need to be honest with yourself and your mum. ...Your mum said you were thinking of joining the army. You tell us you have no such intention. Your mum said you have an application in at at McDonalds and waiting to hear back. You say you will never work at McDs. Your mum says she has told you to spread your wings, you say you are needed as her carer.

I am not asking you to justify these inconsistencies to us. But I hope you have someone else to talk this through with honestly, who is not your mum, the JS people (..obviously..) or a mate who tells you what you want to hear.

In any field the people who succeed are not necessarily the brightest or the most hardworking, but the ones who are able to get people along the way to help them. You seem to have a knack for getting people's backs up rather than charming them. The JC people took it upon themselves to bend the rules not to help you but to punish you, your uncle tells you that there is no more work for you at his cafe, you go to college and don't meet anyone who can help you find work, you manage to piss off a load of mums on the Internet who were offering you advice and leads.

This leaves you are applying for jobs online with household name companies rather than being offered opportunities by people who know you (yes this is how most people get work, most people don't work for big companies. and even in big companies word of mouth counts).

It does come down to attitude. You seem to hold most people in disdain, This comes accross clearly, and so they don't go out of their way to assist. I am not sure how you can change that, although there is a whole self help literature around Effective Habits, Making Friends and Influencing People etc...

I think the best thing is to do is not just to progress the formal martial arts qualification, but to make it your mission you to search out and ally yourself with someone /people you do respect - a mentor(s) - build yourself a situation where you can show a good attitude, and try to avoid situations - the DWP, McJobs etc... where you can't.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Sat 10-Nov-12 08:39:02

Yes. Bless him.

 If it were any of your husbands in this position and they were being sanctioned for things outwith their control and being made to go on these positions I can assure you that your approach to this would be different

Actually no, my approach would be no different at all. His approach would be VERY different to yours though. I wonder if it's because he joined the army at 16, worked his ass off, learnt some humility...hmm

My DCs have a fantastic karate instructor. He is strict, and disciplined. And firm. And focussed,
But this is not how he gets his business. How is he one of the most successful instructors in our area.
His success is down to the fact he is lovely. Trustworthy. Willing to put himself out. Willing to be on the board of governors for the school (unpaid work). Will put himself out to help people.

As parents we trust him with our children from the age of 5. And the children all adore him.

And the reason he teaches 5 years olds onwards - because surely that is how you start martial arts - as a child. Generally.

From what I have read here from you I would not consider EVER trusting you with my children. And your disdain for "looking after children". FFS- children will know this from you. Their instincts are fine tuned. How many children would come away from an hour session with you wanting to go back for more.

LisaMed Sat 10-Nov-12 09:03:35

My DS does martial arts, has done so since he was four. It wasn't very martial at the start, all v age appropriate.

The instructor has a lot of different classes in church halls, has a fixed gym thingy for a central base and works all the hours at every opportunity to get students in. I recommend her to everyone who will stand still long enough to listen because she is great with the kids, great with parents, disciplined and hard working. I think she is 25.

It's her great attitude and work ethic, plus an innate kindness to kids (which is probably when most start martial arts training) that is making her successful.

btw in her discipline you need to take classes to get a black belt. How has that worked for you?

I'm not in my 40s. I'm not upper middle class either. I may well be a wanker I guess. Anyway, there isn't any work either DH or I would rule out if we needed to. I'm currently on a career break and hoping to re-train as a teacher and just generally enjoying my time with the DDs while they're young. And giving them a good foundation in life. I'm selling some stuff on ebay & picking up bits of retail work here and there. It doesn't feel like a step backwards just because I haven't done it for 10/15 years, it feels like a means to an end.

But then DH and I have been lucky. And the harder we work the luckier we are. Because obviously DH just had his well-paid job presented to him on leaving university. hmm

Anyway, if I was the OP I would be curling up in shame right now.

GoldeneyeDog - I understand the system sucks - and yes I have been unemployed - and I understand it is hard to find a job at the minute, but the more you post the ruder you get.

I'm reminded of Spud in Trainspotting, (without the drugs), trying hard enough to get a job without having his benefits cut, but not so hard as to get the job.

Anyway, that's enough from me, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, other people have tried to help, and you have been rude and condescending to everyone.

Good luck and all that - but I expect you'll still be in this position in ten years time with that 'it's everyone else's fault' attitude.

RubyGates Sat 10-Nov-12 09:14:32,9387023678&key=132223617&c=87875282236056&pagestamp=sevkcpxgrpvxlbneix

RubyGates Sat 10-Nov-12 09:14:43,9387023678&key=132223617&c=87875282236056&pagestamp=sevkcpxgrpvxlbneix

MardyArsedMidlander Sat 10-Nov-12 09:34:09

I am actually quite happy to be called an 'upper middle class wanker' grin. I am sitting on my arse- because it was an unbelievably shite time at work.

But GoldenBollox! Stick to your guns! Don't give into the man! And please gd never ever get a job in my office or near anyone I like

Fenton Sat 10-Nov-12 09:43:05

I simply can't understand why he hasn't found work, EVERYONE should employ a teenager while they still know it all.

MaryZezItsOnlyJustNovember Sat 10-Nov-12 09:56:50

I thought my son was a bit of a waster, but I am looking at him with new eyes having read this.

Yesterday he worked from 11 am to 8.30, and he is back in today at 3 until 11 pm.

This is "work-experience", for which he will be paid nothing. Nada, zip. But even he has the sense to see that he is building up a cv which says more than "stayed in bed, played a little xbox, went out drinking".

Fairenuff Sat 10-Nov-12 09:58:41

Well, fortunately, we reap what we sow.

Your son will make his own way in life one way or another, op. What does he want to achieve and how does he intend to get there? The immediate problem of getting a job can be easily overcome, as has been shown by all the personal testimonies here.

So, this is what you need to decide. Do you want to be able to have your own place, pay rent, electric, water, council tax, food, etc? Do you want to own a car and be able to pay for tax, insurance, mot and petrol? Do you want to go out with friends and pay for meals, drinks, theatre, etc? Do you want a relationship and holidays, new clothes, haircuts, mobile phones, laptops, etc? Do you want to be a self-reliant, responsible adult making a positive contribution to society? If so, how are you are going to achieve this?

First, you get a job, any job. If you don't have enough experience to prove that you are reliable, trustworthy and employable, you do unpaid voluntary work. When you are lucky enough to be offered paid employment, you take it, and you prove your worth. This will provide you with a reference which you can take to your next employer. And so on...

Opportunity does knock. But you won't hear it if you've still got your head up your arse.

NinaHeart Sat 10-Nov-12 10:08:39

I have just worked my way through much of this thread with a sinking heart over the attitude of the OP and her son. Picky picky picky.

For the record, I started volunteering for a charity, worked my way up and am now a Director of another charity. Each day, what I do when I go to work brings us a step nearer to a cure for Alzheimer's disease and other similar conditions.

There's a big picture to work which you are missing entirely and doesn't just involve entitled you, but a whole world out there.

I suggest you get off your selfish backside and do something useful. And soon.

PamelaSwynfordDeBeaufort Sat 10-Nov-12 10:17:08

I think golden has a very similar attitude that his mum has towards him. As in 'poor baby, none of its your fault'

However I think she will be mortified when reads this. I think she has no idea he has made a tit out of both of them.

BlueberryHill Sat 10-Nov-12 10:25:12

For Goldeneye (?)

Thought you might like the perspective of a 40s middle class wanker who sits at home all day and lets her DH bring home the cash.

First up, I have a degree and I am a fully qualified accountant, and I worked full time since leaving Univeristy until 3 years ago. I've worked for construction firms (you wouldn't like the one I worked for, strong apprenticeship scheme, a number of those who started it on it are now on the board managing projects and budgets in the £10ms, but hey, you are better educated), Big 6 accountancy firms and banks.

I stopped working 3 years ago as I had twins as well as an older child so we have 3 children under 4 yo. Frankly my salary after tax wouldn't cover the childcare costs and would mean a lot of stress on the family as a whole. I don't expect you to understand that, I didn't at your age, but consider that a lot of the women that you have insulted will have worked for practically nothing whilst paying for childcare, for a number of years, so that they can keep their career going and be in a better position in the longer term. Be aware that they will have been paying taxes for people who weren't working, like the position you are now in.

I am planning on going back to work once the twins are at school and I am already looking at how I can do this, I'm considering changing careers to work as a Teaching Assistant and I have started a course to do this. Next year I'll be doing 1 - 2 days voluntary work plus studying, whilst of course sitting on my arse, whoops that should read looking after my children. In the future I would like to retrain to be a teacher, but this will be a couple of years down the line once I have some experience. I may find it difficult to get a job in this field if so I will probably temp in the financial field, but it will be at jobs 5 / 6 levels lower than what I have been doing. But given that I will have been out of the market for 3 / 4 years I recognise that I will need to start again.

The point of this lengthy post is that, my qualifications and experience far outstrip yours and I am prepared to start again so that I can get to a career I want later down the line. I know I have to do this because I have worked in a number of industries and recognise that hard work and taking responsibility for yourself, taking jobs to make connections, getting experience is what works in the end.

A number of people have already told you this, but you have dismissed it, you have written off the experience of people who are in a better position to know what it takes. But, hey your choice, rage at the world just don't expect it to owe you a living.

BTW I aim to teach my children that hard work and perseverence pay off in the end. I don't under estimate how hard it is to find work, I'm dreading it myself and I know I will get down about it, but dust yourself off, eat some chocolate and start all over again.

TheSmallPrint Sat 10-Nov-12 10:27:52

40+ year olds who don't know what it's like for young people getting a job now? You mean like when I was 21 an coming out of university into a recession? Oh perhaps you haven't bothered to research that? I worked for a year for free to ensure that I could continue with my chosen profession. There was absolutely no paid work anywhere and I didnt qualify for any benefits because the job centre considered my course a sandwich course even though my degree was finished.

I now run my own business, I am an architect who works on building sites every day, those men that you are dismissing as being beneath you may not be academically qualified (but, actually, are you? Not much evidence of that) but the majority are intelligent people who know their subject inside out and whose opinion I value and on top of that they work bloody hard in all weathers.

Your attitude is a disgrace.

mrskeithrichards Sat 10-Nov-12 10:47:29

I've just realised my 7 year old has more work ethic than you! Practically every day he's asking me when will he be old enough for a job delivering papers or working in the local shop!

mrskeithrichards Sat 10-Nov-12 10:48:54

And I can almost see the logic behind a skilled (world of difference between skilled and qualified) and experienced worker who finds themselves out of work turning down lower paid jobs but you? Nah.

PseudoBadger Sat 10-Nov-12 11:09:36

Perhaps you could try setting yourself up as a Slanket salesman?

TheCollieDog Sat 10-Nov-12 11:27:14

OP much as your attitude stinks, you're obviously not stupid- why are you not going to university? You could continue with your martial arts by doing a sports science, leisure management or teaching degree.

Please don't wish him on overworked university staff. We have enough entitled PBFs to deal with already! Although, with the attitude expressed by his posts so far, the OP's son wouldn't last through the first few weeks of real hard work in a degree course.

My ds is 18 last year at collage . Is working in Sainsburys shelf stacking evening /nights not what he wants to do but it means earning something he combines that with helping out at home ( I'm a single parent and in a wheelchair and his youngest brother has Sn ) . But he figures it look good on his chosen careers that he shows he has a work ethic

He not perfect has his moments but reckons your a lazy sod and should pull your finger out

My 15 year old is planning UNi but is fully aware that he need a part time job as I can't afford to support him and is already looking into how even though he knows his course will be a heavy one ( planning med school )

YouSayPotato Sat 10-Nov-12 11:52:48

Can you please explain why you need to be your mams carer?

YouSayPotato Sat 10-Nov-12 11:54:42

You could go to university/ open university, college. All doors which would help you get a job. You are very young and could benefit from further education

zeeboo Sat 10-Nov-12 11:56:45

Sounds like a lazy little sod who expects life to come to him and for his Mummy to make the nasty real world to go away and leave him alone.

Kethryveris Sat 10-Nov-12 12:04:32

my dh is a 'manual labourer' he's a welder. he earns a lot more than minimum wage.
sometimes its better to take whatever job you can get, then look for the job that you want.. you are more employable when you're employed!

YouSayPotato Sat 10-Nov-12 12:05:38


Can you answer why your son has to be your carer?

It may help us understand your situation better

cory Sat 10-Nov-12 12:15:47

"Would you want your kids to be workies at the local construction site? I imagine not."

Goldeneye, my husband, a man in his 50s with a degree and over 30 years of experience, including 20 at a managerial level, is about to be made redundant and he will be looking at all kinds of work including the local construction site. As he says himself "I've done it before, I can do it again". Are you sure you are that far above him? Or that many employers would rather give a job to a man with your attitude than to one with his?

cory Sat 10-Nov-12 12:19:09

My dd has a Big Dream which I would like to encourage her to realise. I do this by high-lighting the kind of skills and attitudes she will need to acquire to even think of this profession and by pointing out that she must expect to work in other boring, low qualified jobs to finance it.

flyoverthegoldenhill Sat 10-Nov-12 12:20:40

MaryZ you beat me to it again. I thought my youngest had a stinky attitude - ha now I see how lucky I am. My dd works weekends in an off licence,(she hardly drinks) and 4 days (on long shifts) for a fast food chain. Thank you OP you have made us realise what we did right bringing up our children.

ilovesooty Sat 10-Nov-12 12:25:36

I see the stroppy little boy has now created his own thread to whine.

ZillionChocolate Sat 10-Nov-12 12:30:03

I've only got to page 10 so far, but I just snorted at "if I can respond to you in such a well constructed manner"!

Kalisi Sat 10-Nov-12 12:48:38

Bahahahahaha! grin Just HAD to leave my name on here. Wow,just!
OP - Good luck supporting your man-child, he's going to be leeching off you a loooooong time.
This is the first time that I have fully experienced the wisdom of one of my Mothers favourite phrases " Honey, you just can't reason with stupid people don't waste your breath"
Thank you for making me so appreciative of everyone in my life!

piprabbit Sat 10-Nov-12 12:52:14

The OP's DS obviously hasn't twigged that the part time jobs he is looking for are also the ones which many parents want when they return to the workplace, so they can fit in with their childcare responsibilities.
He isn't competing with ill-educated teenagers for work, he is competing with highly-educated, competent adults with many years of work experience and who are so desperate for a job which fits with their family that they will jump through hoops and bend of backwards to keep their potential employer happy.
Until he finds a way to fill his CV with genuine experience, loses the attitude and starts to think about what he can offer an employer (not much at the moment) instead of what the employer can do for him, he simply cannot compete.

MrsDeVere Sat 10-Nov-12 13:05:08

My son is like this.
It makes me weep.
I have no idea why.
Me and his dad have been in work since our teens.
He has never been pampered.

It horrifies me. I am hoping against hope that he will grow up before its too late.

It all started going to crapbwhen he started hanging out with a group of affluent friends with few boundaries and plenty of cash.

Tuttutitlookslikerain Sat 10-Nov-12 13:08:01

My DH is my carer, he is also in the RAF. When he isn't here my DSes step into being my carers. DS1(17)is doing his second year of A levels, just lost his part time job because the business went bankrupt. He'd love to work. He applies for every job going in our small county. He is off to Uni in September so he can join the Army [shock horror he is actually going to do a job].

DH is being deployed next year so all of my caring will be down to ds2 who will be in his first year of A levels. Hopefully he will have a part time job by then too. He will be off to Uni when he is 18 because he wants to be a nurse.

You just sound like a lazy oaf who does not want to work and will put up every bloody obstacle so you don't have to. I think they did the right think stopping your Job Seekers Allowance. You don't want a job, you aren't looking so why should they give it to you?

ZillionChocolate Sat 10-Nov-12 13:10:42

Poor MrsDeVere, I know from your other posts that you don't deserve this. If you think your son is responsible for his own attitude that's much harder to deal with than blaming everyone else like the OP does.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Sat 10-Nov-12 13:12:52

Does anyone else think they're not coming back?

MrsDeVere, wherever your DS got that attitude it certainly wasn't from you!

MrsDeVere Sat 10-Nov-12 13:26:48

He has had a lot to cope with, but we all have.
It honestly breaks my heart.
I am trying to keep it all in perspective and not let my worries run away with me.
But I just cant get my head round it and am so scared he will screw it all up.

I just want him to get a job. He is in a very good position as his rent is low. He is clever and quick.

He lives in the middle of an area packed with retail jobs.

It makes me bloody teary just thinking about it. Shae and worry and anger and frustration all mixed up together.

Please don't think kids do this because they have lazy, indulgent parents. It's not always the case. There is an awful lot of outside influence too.

He is not a bad kid. I o think he is 'entitled' though sad

Kundry Sat 10-Nov-12 13:28:57

I love this thread - haven't had such a good laugh in ages angry

From my upper middle class (thirties mind you, not forties) sanctuary, well I wasn't born into this class, me and my parents worked bloody hard. My dad joined the forces age 16 as he realised he would learn a trade and better his chances which he did. Equally my mum moved countries, they wouldn't recognise her qualifications here so she retrained rather than throwing a strop and writing to her MP. She got a job putting knobs on kettles which by your standards was 'beneath her' but she didn't expect the state to step in and pay her rent for her if she was capable of work.

Yes I am a doctor but along the way I've also been a chambermaid and a care assistant to pay my own way through university. I didn't have a grant but neither did I get money from my parents. And I did loads of voluntary work to help my chances. If you speak to most of my doctor friends, they have done some shitty jobs as vegetable pickers, meat processors etc. Best junior I've ever worked with, worked in sales in call centres throughout university even though he hated it as he knew he needed the money to achieve his long term goal.

But apparently we are all lazy nazis.

Unfortunately you seem to have done a 1 year college course that doesn't really qualify you for any jobs. If you thought laterally, martial arts instructors teach loads of kids - their mums would be really impressed to know you had child care or teaching qualifications and experience. But you don't want to do child care because it isn't a job. Their mums would also be really impressed if you were a first aider or had volunteered for something like St John's Ambulance. But that doesn't fit in with your busy schedule. Clubs and security would be impressed by a martial arts geek - but you have some sort of objection to this.

When are you going to realise you are cutting off your nose to spite your face?

I'm now in the happy position of being able to interview applicants for my team - and over and over again we appoint the people who look like they'll work hard and we will enjoy spending our days with. You on the other hand confused

MaryZezItsOnlyJustNovember Sat 10-Nov-12 13:29:31

It's difficult isn't it.

ds had a great opportunity to work at a place very close to home. Until his "friends" told him the owner was posh and snobby (he had obviously fired someone) and he shouldn't work there.

So he refused to go back [baffled].

Peer pressure and not wanting to be seen to be doing an embarrassing job is very difficult at this age. Fortunately ds has found something else, but it only needs one "friend" to diss it, for him to give up. And there is nothing I can do about it - if I say anything he is even less likely to conform.

MrsDeVere Sat 10-Nov-12 13:39:55

Ds seems to be vaguely considering jobs that would fit around his lifestyle hmm
Bar work etc.
Instead of building a life around available work.

My biggest worry is that he will be like the op. dismiss sanctions as being unfair and 'they can't do that'
And only realise they can when it's too late and he has lost everything.
And we cannot afford to bail him out.

He would benefit so much from a job. I think his mh would improve. He would get a sense of purpose and self worth.

But like you say, peer pressure, one stupid comment and years of parental influence mean sweet FA.

NinaHeart Sat 10-Nov-12 13:47:03

ilovesooty...where is this extra whiney thread please? I can't wait!

MrsDeVere Sat 10-Nov-12 13:48:35

goldeneye how the fuck di you qualify for a restricted ageement.
I lost my IB a few months after my DD died. I had to sign on for JSA.
I have a disabled husband and a disabled child. At the time I also had a one year old.

Yet I, as a grown woman with 25 years tax paying behind me, qualified for no such restriction.

Luckily for me, my family and my MH, I found a well paid part time job quickly.

But I am qualified for lots of jobs. Having worked since childhood hmm

ilovesooty Sat 10-Nov-12 14:04:10


It's been deleted. It clearly demonstrated to even bigger effect what an entitled little boy we're responding to.

NinaHeart Sat 10-Nov-12 14:08:13

Oh bum I missed it.
I would die a thousand deaths if my children behaved like this.

ilovesooty Sat 10-Nov-12 14:09:27

I imagine any decent mother would find it embarrassing.

EnjoyVampirebloodResponsibly Sat 10-Nov-12 14:09:38

What a cock.

If you were that bright you'd be able to write with paragraphs.

And BTW DS age 5 can tell the difference between Chip and Dale.

Good luck in your role as a carer/ninja.

Fenton Sat 10-Nov-12 14:11:27


cory Sat 10-Nov-12 15:04:47

What piprabbit said:

"The OP's DS obviously hasn't twigged that the part time jobs he is looking for are also the ones which many parents want when they return to the workplace, so they can fit in with their childcare responsibilities.

He isn't competing with ill-educated teenagers for work, he is competing with highly-educated, competent adults with many years of work experience and who are so desperate for a job which fits with their family that they will jump through hoops and bend of backwards to keep their potential employer happy."

He may also be competing with highly-educated, competent adults who have been laid off after 30 years of non-stop employment. Our local council is closing down whole departments at the same time as a large production plant is also shutting down. That is also the kind of thing you have to take into account. These people are also out there looking for jobs.

You won't be able to compete on the grounds of education, experience or maturity, goldeneye, so how are you going to convince a future employer that you have something to offer that outweighs those other candidates?

Well, attitude would be a good place to start. Many employers are looking for hard-working, teachable, willing employees. That is how you need to sell yourself. "I know I haven't got much experience but I am very keen and willing to work hard".

The "I have been to college so I am really too good for you" isn't going to endear you to employers who will be interviewing graduates; your college degree may seem very precious to you, but the truth is that a great many people are better educated these days.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 10-Nov-12 15:15:05

Op, after seeing your location I was going to pm you as my brother is near you and currently looking for 5 pt staff for above nmw.

After your son came on to enlighten us all with his wisdom I don't think he would last 5 seconds or be able to present himself well, I would be to embarrassed to risk asking him to employ yur ds.

ilovesooty Sat 10-Nov-12 15:20:19

So he's talked himself out of a job offer. I wouldn't be surprised if that attitude presents a lot of barriers for him. I wouldn't accept him as a volunteer for my company. His values (demonsrated on here and referred to by his mother on other threads) simply wouldn't be acceptable to us.

cory Sat 10-Nov-12 15:25:10

What caused the other thread to be pulled? I missed its demise.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Sat 10-Nov-12 15:27:42

Bollocks, I always miss the good bit!

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Sat 10-Nov-12 15:27:53

Two job offers. MrsKeithRichards very kindly offered to ask her DH to take him on but he's too good for building work and was quite insulting about manual labourers.

ilovesooty Sat 10-Nov-12 15:34:24

Oh yes, two.

And someone was going to offer to look at his CV but decided not to because of his posts here.

I suppose MNHQ pulled his whiney thread for being a thread about a thread.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans Sat 10-Nov-12 15:50:39

What did HQ say about it, does anyone know?

Kalisi Sat 10-Nov-12 15:53:47

Yeah it was a thread about about a thread. It's a shame we were having so much fun on it! grin

cory Sat 10-Nov-12 15:55:18

<goes off in a huff with MNHQ>

ilovesooty Sat 10-Nov-12 15:56:57

Poor little sausage will probably think it was deleted because MNHQ are all nasty Nazis (like all who've challenged him here)

Anniegetyourgun Sat 10-Nov-12 16:11:32

You forgot to mention insulting all SAHMs and childcare professionals in one fell swoop.

ilovesooty Sat 10-Nov-12 16:14:17

He comes over as pretty disrespectful of women as well. Judging by other threads posted by the OP that extends to his own mother.

Oh no. Did I miss it? What did he say? Come back Golden. We liked talking to you.

soverylucky Sat 10-Nov-12 16:28:39

My dear brother worked for months in a charity shop for nothing when he couldn't get work and didn't need to be told by the job centre to do this. He did it off his own back as he knew it would look better on his cv then doing nothing for months. He was cleaning stock with the steam machine thing, seving customers,pricing stock, shelf stacking, rearranging the shelves when it was needed and helping to collect large items for sale. He learnt loads. He learnt people skills, time management, cashing up and most importantly working hard and having a sense of achievement at the end of it. He has now got a full time paid job doing what he wanted to do. I am proud of him.

myfirstkitchen Sat 10-Nov-12 19:29:30

good. why should you get JSA when you're living at home anyway? 'workies' HAHAA yes, people in a job, probably not living with mummy.

Cortana Sat 10-Nov-12 20:00:16

Entitled little fuckstick.

I started work at a god damn strawberry farm, for far less than minimum wage with a load of people who didn't speak English (can now work out the attitude of some people "not wanting that job). I used this money to fund my college and pay my parents something towards my keep (they didn't ask for it but hell, a sense of pride and work ethic was there).

I have blasted my arse off, cleaning toilets, waiting tables, selling shit door to door on commission. Working and studying while I raise my DC. I'm intelligent and educated. At the grand old age of 28 I have got my "dream job". It's taken 12 years worth of good references, experience and volunteer work to make me stand out from the crowd to achieve this.

I've moved with my family 200 miles for this. Fuck you and your 90 minutes on a bus.

Either accept some manual work, or accept you're a loser. Some people here would do anything for a job offer, and you turn them down as they're not in your chosen field? Also bollocks to the "3 fields maximum", you pick three for them to focus you on. You can apply for anything, before I secured my current job I was going for anything, retail, bar work, cleaning, office, manual. If you can't understand the terms of your JSA I doubt you're that intelligent anyway.

JSA is lifeline, for people who genuinely cannot get work, of which there are many. You are not one of them.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy Sun 11-Nov-12 09:43:24

Kelperose This must be really hard for you.

When I was a full-time professional lay about, my poor Mum tried everything to help me.

I told her what she wanted to hear though, so she was always on my side.

Know you don't think this of your son!

Truth is, you can't really help him, if I was you, I would say 'you can stay here, I will feed you, you can use the washer etc, but will give you NO money to spend, as I can't afford to keep you.'

Couple of months of this, he will get a job, or never go out again!

Good luck, you do have my sympathy, but tough love all the way.

flyoverthegoldenhill Sun 11-Nov-12 10:43:40

Alien I wouldn't have too much sympathy for the OP, her son did say she had lied about about his dad being an alcoholic. I guess his thread got deleted because he is a twat grin

mrskeithrichards Sun 11-Nov-12 16:32:13

Ah did he have his own thread?


midseasonsale Sun 11-Nov-12 19:13:01

You must be very torn.

Even with qualifications/skills, if he helps in a charity shop he is doing something community minded, developing further his interpersonal skills, learning shop skills and humility, spending his empty days doing something meaningful and showing good timekeeping in the workplace. He might even spot some bargains!

midseasonsale Sun 11-Nov-12 19:13:43

and get another good reference

foslady Sun 11-Nov-12 21:06:53

I'm now sniggering at his blasting of mid 40's middle class wankers......

I'm mid 40's, no way could be classed as middle class and worked since I was 14, and since the age of 17 (did 1st year of a course that didn't work so took a trainee job instead) and worked constantly with the exception of taking 1 extra month off after my 6 months maternity pay ran out and didn't claim as it was only a month.

And all that money I paid/pay in tax he's happy to take in whatever benefits he can 'obtain' that My taxes and YOUR taxes pay for and call me a wanker for doing so (and I've NEVER spoke like that before)

well, I for one am glad you've shut the fuck up.......

BTW, martial arts are based on discipline and hard work. If you were so fucking good at your discipline they'd of taken you on FOC.......

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