Kingsmill Fruit and fibre advert complaint

(319 Posts)
ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 11:42:11

This may have been mentioned before but I would like to know how I go about making a complaint about an advert that I have found inappropriate. I really think it exploits teenage girls.

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 11:43:03

Does it? How? Haven't seen the ad...

MrsWolowitz Thu 08-Nov-12 11:43:43

How does it?

I haven't seen it.

ClaimedByMe Thu 08-Nov-12 11:45:36

Is it the teenage girl in the short skirt and the comment about her not going out in the short skirt?

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 11:47:26

I've seen it, I noticed it because I tried the bread in a Mumsnet trial thing. grin

I suppose you complain to the advertising standards agency.

I didn't notice any exploitation though, unless you're saying the actress wasn't paid?

ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 11:48:18

At the end there is a girl dressed in a very short skirt, over the knee stockings and it's baisically her school uniform, think Hit me baby one more time. I just don't see how it's appropriate or what it has to do with Kingsmill tealoaf.
Blatantly using sex to sell an everyday product.

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 11:48:21

I have 2 teenage girls... Am interested to know how this advert is offensive?

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 11:48:47

Never seen the ad but Advertising Standards Authority

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 11:48:58

Eh?

ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 11:49:19

Obi, using sex to sell.
Thanks, I may email them.

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 11:50:02

You don't like her uniform?

Can you link to the ad?

ClaimedByMe Thu 08-Nov-12 11:51:18

I never saw it as using sex to sell bread, I did think haha I remember my dad saying that to me. Maybe these things just go over my head!

Rachel130690 Thu 08-Nov-12 11:51:22

I think it's what they call a joke. No one I no that's seen it thought it was using 'sex' to sell a product. I think you are over reacting.

I didn't view it as using sex at all tbh. It seemed to me to be a joke on a father and daughter relationship. When I was at school 25 years ago I used to have that conversation about school uniform with my dad, it was about fashion and being 'cool', not sex.

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 11:53:03

The father says the girls school skirt is too short. Pretty standard coversation throughout the land, I'd have thought.

There was nothing at all sexual about it.

Sexy bread would be weird.

ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 11:53:34

yes claimed.

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 11:54:01

Oh my days!! I've just watched it on YouTube... Can't see the problem either!
It's you who is making the school uniform/sex link op..

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 11:54:07
ClaimedByMe Thu 08-Nov-12 11:54:46

I just watched it again on the kingsmill website and I paid more attention, they are not stockings they are over the knee school socks that you an buy in M&S my 9 year old wears them as does most other girls in her school from P1 to P7.

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 11:55:15

It's about being stubborn and rebellious, not sexy!

ChippingInLovesAutumn Thu 08-Nov-12 11:55:24

I think it says far more about you, than the advert, that you think this is a case of 'sex sells' hmm

ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 11:55:46

Worra no I don't like her uniform, I have children in the house lol.

I don't know how to link blush

ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 11:56:34

Rachel, really? It's pretty blatant and totaly irrelevant.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 11:56:39

I was a bit surprised when I saw the ad.

I think it stands out because the girl is a very pretty, slim young actress who could pass as 17 ish and she does look sexy.

She wasn't some spotty little 12 year old in braces.

kim147 Thu 08-Nov-12 11:57:07

Personally I think the advert should show them sitting down and having a decent breakfast.

Not sure if a piece of toast counts.Mind you, she'll probably grab some crisps and a coke at the local shop - like a lot of teenagers here do.

anklebitersmum Thu 08-Nov-12 11:57:09

is it this one? bread ad

I don't think it's offensive but I do think Dad should have been out of the shower to enforce longer skirt.

kim147 Thu 08-Nov-12 11:57:42

You eat this bread and you too can look lke this smile

ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 11:58:15

witchety sorry I don't know what you are implying.

I don't get how you don't see it as irrelevant and inappropriate.

ManifestingMingeHooHoosAgain Thu 08-Nov-12 11:58:15

I've watched it now.

Overthinking this a bit OP - it wasn't really sexualised at all IMHO, more a rubbish jokes about dads.

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 11:58:48

She would only hitch it up again when out of sight!

ManifestingMingeHooHoosAgain Thu 08-Nov-12 11:59:06
JustinBoobie Thu 08-Nov-12 11:59:50

I didn't think it appropriate either to be honest...

BoobBuffet Thu 08-Nov-12 12:00:51

I think it is grim tbh.

The same joke could've been made by dressing the girl in any number of other unsuitable-for-school outfits. The camera lingers on her giving a twirl, and the over the knee socks make her look like she's in 'naughty schoolgirl' fancy dress. Yuk.

OH, the other night when we first saw it: 'that is awful, but it'll be on mumsnet within the hour'.

He has been well taught grin

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 12:01:00

zigzag well I'm not the only one am I?

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 12:01:06

It's not totally irrelevant.

The young brother is still at the age where he takes notice of everything that Dad says.

The older sister has long passed that stage.

Unlike a spotty 12yr old with braces, she's a teenager and interested in looking like most of her peers.

I'm surprised it needs explaining really as it's quite obvious I think.

BoobBuffet Thu 08-Nov-12 12:01:40

*bet

ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 12:02:25

I was surprised by it, I think it's wrong.` Thanks for the link.
I shall complain anyway.

ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 12:03:35

Thank you boob.

FreePeaceSweet Thu 08-Nov-12 12:03:38

TBH, I find it hard to believe that the dad spoke to his son in great detail about a blimmin' loaf of bread. "Dad says this amazing thing about bread... Then Dad says that amazing thing about bread... Dad also says this truly awesome thing about BREAD!" Just can it on those grounds.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 12:05:07

She looks like Britney in ' hit me baby '

anklebitersmum Thu 08-Nov-12 12:06:11

It's this one that I wonder about.

Daughter comes in late, waffling at 100mph and raiding the fridge and you just go to bed? Check her flippin pockets man

Come to think of it the parents are weak in all their adverts..weren't they the ones who introduced 'crustless bread' for parents who can't man up and say "eat your crusts"..

<mutters angrily while heading to kitchen for a sandwich>

BoobBuffet Thu 08-Nov-12 12:06:28

Which was also highly questionable....

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 12:07:28

No worra you are not getting me.

They could have used a spotty, 12 year old kid as the actress but they didn't.

A spotty 12 year old would still hitch her skirt up.

BoobBuffet Thu 08-Nov-12 12:07:46

Britney being questionable I mean, not all food based adverts!

I like the fact it was "dad" saying all these things about bread and making his family breakfast, rather than "mum" for once

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 12:08:11

Is the OP joking? i feel like i am missing something today. Need more sleep.

If you are serious...

Its joke about the fact that dads have been complaining about how short their dds skirts are for years.

If you choose to sexualise it, that's your issue.

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 12:09:07

I actually bought the crustless bread a couple of times.

Then I got wise, started buying the Value white bread (23p!), and just cutting off the crusts.

I didn't know whether to admire my pragmatism, or despise myself for being ineffecual.

BoobBuffet Thu 08-Nov-12 12:09:32

Yes exactly, Everlong.
They chose a teenager who could pass for much older (and may well be 18plus) and glammed her up. Not innocent at all.

anklebitersmum Thu 08-Nov-12 12:12:44

<shakes head sadly at ObiWan> Cut the crusts off?

grin at 23p bread

Oh come on. Really? Who didn't have that or a similar type experience with their dad. Its just meant to make you sort of chuckle. Its a play on family dynamics I suppose.

Yes they could of used a spotty 12 year old, but this is a tv advert. People with spots don not exist, not even in ads for spot cream.

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 12:15:44

Glammed her up?

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 08-Nov-12 12:17:01

YABU. And a bit weird. It's a jokey comment on father/daughter relationships not meant be sexy.

hiddenhome Thu 08-Nov-12 12:19:19

I think the little boy is trying to opress his sister by the way he talks to her. He's obviously learn that smart alec talk from 'dad' hmm She's clearly quite a bit older than her brother and he's a little squirt for talking to her like that. It's non of his business what she's wearing for school.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 12:19:52

Nah it's not sexy between the dad and dd fgs.

The girl looks a bit sexy. That's all. In her short skirt and over knee socks.

Sirzy Thu 08-Nov-12 12:19:53

Some people really do look for any reason to be offended

weightwatcherbaby Thu 08-Nov-12 12:20:20

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Also you know if they used a girl who genuinely looked about 12 and was hoiking her skirt up we would all be accusing them of sexualising children.

They probably chose a girl who looked older because it would be called 'inappropriate' if she looked younger. There would be lots of 'well my 12 12 year old isn't interested in short skirts' across mn.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 08-Nov-12 12:21:51

its a fairly normal thing that happens in houses all over the place and has done for years even when i was at school we tried to get out the house wearing short skirts.

its not seou have sexualising at all and if you think it is then you have dirty minds.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 12:21:58

I'm not offended by it. Not one bit.

I noticed it, that's all.

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 12:24:03

They chose a teenager who could pass for much older (and may well be 18plus) and glammed her up. Not innocent at all.

Well having an over 18 is easier (when looking at employment law) to play the part. She is not glammed up. She is dressed like a school girl.
why would she be innocent? That's a generalisation. That a 16 has to be innocent. Innocent about what exactly?

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 12:27:51

mutny that's what I thought! Not glammed up at all. And kids now have to stay on at school an extra year, so an older girl is not unrealistic at all

No fake tan, nails, heavy make up, big hair.... How is she glammed up exactly??

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 12:29:45

The girl in the ad looked like 99% of the teenagers out here.

Both boys and girls look as though they have bypassed the gangly stage, and just morphed into beautiful people.

I think it's down to hair straighteners and 'product'.

(I have no idea what 'product' is, I think it might be American).

BoobBuffet Thu 08-Nov-12 12:32:42

Ok, didn't mean whether the girl was innocent or not, just the motives of the ad execs! And I do get the joke, honest, just don't like how overtly sexual they've chosen to make the girl look.

I'm not about to go postal about it or anything. Just think its sad that everything has to be promoted by sex, and in particular, the sexualisation of young people and children. Clearly in the minority though - will huff off to feminism grin

smilingthroughgrittedteeth Thu 08-Nov-12 12:34:26

I don't see the problem with it, in fact it made me laugh because its exactly the kind of thing that would happen in this house, with dss trying to wind dsd up.

DSD is 14 and tries to dresses like the girl in the advert, we don't even need to see her, we just shout "your not going out dressed like that", its fully plausable that dss who is 9 would also say it to her if she was trying to sneak past, we have trained him well grin

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 12:34:42

I get you boob

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 12:37:11

So she's 'overtly sexual' now?

Shagmundfreud Thu 08-Nov-12 12:37:30

I'd appreciate the ad more if the teenage girl wearing the stoopidly short skirt looked like Vikki Pollard, complete with corned beef thighs.

As it is it's just a happy chance for middle aged men to leer at supple teenage girl-flesh.

So don't like it.

BoobBuffet Thu 08-Nov-12 12:39:03

Phew!

And re my 'glammed up' comment, I must just be old (and not a mum of girls) as I NEVER looked that polished for school even if I might've really wanted to at 16

VirginiaDare Thu 08-Nov-12 12:39:19

The young one in that pockets one is soooooo stoned.

grin

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 12:39:22

shagmund so you are saying it would be ok if the girl was not as 'attractive'?

BoobBuffet Thu 08-Nov-12 12:40:44

That's my take Shagmund. It's the leeriness of it that I don't like.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 12:43:06

mutny if the actress was short, overweight with stumpy little legs men wouldn't letch as much would they. If at all.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 08-Nov-12 12:50:12

everlong, that is a very stupid thing to say

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 12:52:57

It's true though.

VirginiaDare Thu 08-Nov-12 12:53:05

So, you can't represent young women with what they actually wear (because that is exactly what a lot of school girls wear) because men might letch at it?
And its worse if she's good looking?

I thought we were against victim blaming on this site, and didn't believe that its what women (or girls) wear that are to blame for lechery, instead blaming the lechers?

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 12:53:54

Honestly Everlong, I think the sort of men who 'letch' over girls in school uniform, are not terribly concerned with who is wearing it.

Anyway, it's an advert for bread. About as far from sexy as it's possible to get. I think most people will focus on the mildly amusing conversation, and not the actress playing the school girl.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 08-Nov-12 12:57:32

everlong

no its not true.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 12:58:11

So why use an attractive girl then?

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 12:59:30

Because ugly people don't make good TV. Especially in HD.

Spotty teenagers will put people off the cranberry spiked bread.

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 13:01:15

mutny if the actress was short, overweight with stumpy little legs men wouldn't letch as much would they. If at all.

I have never heard anything so awful. Maybe they picked her because she was the best out of those that went for it. So they should only employ unattractive children? Really?

i am so shocked at what i have read.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 13:03:48

Am I on a different thread here?!?

It's why they used an attractive girl.

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 13:07:54

The boy was hardly the epitome of ugly.

Some people are inexplicably seeing 'sexy', where most people are seeing two children.

ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 13:08:08

I wonder what the ladies in feminism would think of this too.
I only came here to ask a question, not to be told that I'm sexualising an advert myself (when the ad is already sexualised using a young girl) implying that I'm the one with the dirty mind ( not the makers of this ad).

FlipFlippingFlippers Thu 08-Nov-12 13:08:59

<agrees with Virginia>

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 08-Nov-12 13:09:04

i think you have issues.

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 13:09:12

So (what you consider to be) pretty girls should be passed over for jobs because it may come across as too sexy?
The same advert with a 'less attractive' girl is ok?

I don't think peados are really that selective. And I am shocked at the 'it would be ok if she was ugly' attitude.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 13:10:01

I give up sometimes.

It's like talking in Swahili.

You say one thing and someone twists it to mean another.

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 13:10:06

Using a young girl = sexualisation... Just like that??

Seriously?

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 13:10:27

Some people are inexplicably seeing 'sexy', where most people are seeing two children.

Exactly.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 08-Nov-12 13:10:36

This is possibly the most ridiculous thread I have seen.

"Why did they use an attractive girl then?" - because she's an actress - they tend to be attractive. Because people prefer looking at attractive people. Always have,always will.

And considering a young person to be attractive doesn't automatically mean you find them sexy and are a dirty paedophile either.

FlipFlippingFlippers Thu 08-Nov-12 13:11:08

Just to add that I'm a feminist (hairy legs and everything wink) and I don't have a problem with this ad.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 13:12:33

So why have an attractive girl in a mini skirt and over knee socks then?

Why have the advert about a short skirt?

When there could have been so many topics.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 08-Nov-12 13:12:35

no witchety using a young girl everlong defines as attractive = sexualisation just like that.

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 13:13:24

You say one thing and someone twists it to mean another.

yes ok.

ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 13:13:40

Virginia its not representing what girls wear, isn't it these images that girls live up to in the first place. An ideal dress code for leering men and I bet it wasn't a female that wrote that advert.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 08-Nov-12 13:14:03

Zigzag you asked a question and got your answer. It is you who has perceived the girl to be sexualised. The majority think you are being unreasonable. So in essence,you are annoyed that people don't agree with you.

I'm sure everyone in feminism will agree with you though.

ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 13:14:15

*these images on tv

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 08-Nov-12 13:15:04

because dads and mums all over the world for years have been saying "your not going out dressed like that" to teenage girls.

its a normal thing in many households

FlipFlippingFlippers Thu 08-Nov-12 13:15:39

I know let's ban skirts then nobody would get raped... hmm

ZigZagWanderer Thu 08-Nov-12 13:17:07

Alisvo oh ok, the AIBU majority? Most people on here can't post without jumping on the AIBU bandwagon just to remain popular. Thanks for that.

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 13:17:50

Those clothes ate NORMAL it's what teens wear, or try to!!

Does it matter if a man wrote it?

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 13:17:54

So why have an attractive girl in a mini skirt and over knee socks then?

Because that's what school girls where. Its an advert set at breakfast time. Which 5 days out of 7 usually include kids being in uniform.

The short skirt is an age old situation. Dads usually think their dds clothe are to short, too tight etc.
its a joke.

madoldbird Thu 08-Nov-12 13:21:10

I see two children.
I see a teenage girl who rolls her skirt up like thousands of girls do, including my DD.
I don't see exploitation.
I don't see sexualisation.
I see a company using a play on typical family interactions in order to promote their product.
Perhaps what each of us see in the advert says far more about ourselves than it does about bread.

To be honest, dirty old men, paedophiles, teenage boys, whoever, are NOT going to be watching a bread advert to get their thrills, are they?? Nor is anyone going to be thinking "cor, look at her... must go and buy some of that bread".

Now, a real complaint is that i can't buy this anywhere yet!!!!

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 13:21:32

When Britney appeared on the scene in her mini skirt and over knee socks are you saying that wasn't sexual?

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 13:23:11

You mean Britney who also had all her tummy out and was licking her lips and a lolly pop?

I didn't see any of that in this ad.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 08-Nov-12 13:24:07

Zigzag - er....I wasn't aware I was popular on MN,being fairly new and all that.

But you asked AIBU and haven't,in the main, liked that people think you are BU.

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 13:24:09

madoldbird it was us lot, mumsnet, who dud the product test for this bread!!

I was on the panel, it's delicious..... And my teenage girls thought so too!! Tastes better wearing a short skirt apparently, dd is laughing at this thread...

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 13:24:20

Most people on here can't post without jumping on the AIBU bandwagon just to remain popular. Thanks for that.

Roughly translated that means 'i know I am unreasonable but I won't admit it'

FlipFlippingFlippers Thu 08-Nov-12 13:24:49

mutny I think I love you grin

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 13:25:19

everlong that has no bearing on today's young people.... Brit wu was years ago, as was twiggy!

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 13:27:03

Why what's that got to do with it.

She was portraying a school girl, in a mini skirt with over knee socks on.

And the male population went effing crazy.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 08-Nov-12 13:27:11

mutny c'mon now stop saying OP is BU just to be popular . smile

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 13:27:37

Thanks flip grin

Made my day that has.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 08-Nov-12 13:28:12

Why are you banging on about Britney Everlong? That was 15 years ago!

missymoomoomee Thu 08-Nov-12 13:28:14

<jumps on the mutny bandwagon just to be popular (or because I agree with every word)>

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 08-Nov-12 13:28:41

britney spears had her shirt tied up to show her tummy her bra on show and a face full of very very obvious makeup. and was prancing around not quite the same thing

kim147 Thu 08-Nov-12 13:29:44

Still think a piece of toast does not make breakfast.

FlipFlippingFlippers Thu 08-Nov-12 13:31:14

Other than the school uniform it has nothing to do with Britney. Poor love has been through enough surely. Don't want her to read this and shave her head again. It's bloody nippy out.

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 13:32:15

But Britney wasn't eating toast!!

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 13:32:31

No she was portraying a 'sexy school girl' along the lines of Ann summers.
School girls don't walk down the street here with their middle showing, sucking on lollypops asking their boyfriends to 'show me how you want it to be'.

They do however dress like the girl in the Kingsmill ad and probably have been told at least once this week that they are not going out dressed like that.

There's a massive difference between reality and fiction.

And the male population didn't go mad. My brother for one (and his mates) thought the whole Britney things was a bit weird.

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 13:33:52

it does Kim it does!!

Actually, as a plug for KINGSMILL I have to recommend this bread made into a cheese toast!! Divine!

Thanks KINGSMILL

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 13:33:52

I'm on about the skirt and socks.

The girl in the advert was very Britney.

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes Thu 08-Nov-12 13:35:00

cant see any sexiness in it myself, the girl looks like most of the teens going to school here. actually think its an accurate representation tbh. if she had fake tan, seven layers of make up fake nails, lashes and lipgloss then i could see she was being made to look sexy but she just looks normal to me hardly any obviuos make up just a short skirt and sox. no 'sexy' dialogue, no flirtatious looks nothing. get a grip you are just promoting the whole ooh er school uniform = sex here. NO IT DOESNT unless you are a sad perv its what girls wear. Are we disallowing any fashion now? blaming girls for what they wear meh. massive overreaction imo

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 13:35:27

KINGSMILL fruit and fibre bread

Made into bread and butter pudding... Fab!!!

Buy it everyone..

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 13:35:36

Bit obviously you can choose to ignore any valid points made saying this advert is sexualising teenage girls because, y'know I am only saying iy to be popular and what not.

FlipFlippingFlippers Thu 08-Nov-12 13:38:09

Let's ban adverts, schools, children, Britney, skirts and toast just to make sure the pervs don't get any ideas.

Cheesecake has always been a fine breakfast IMO.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 08-Nov-12 13:38:55

mutny as am I apparently. Oh well!

madoldbird Thu 08-Nov-12 13:39:08

In the Britney song she sings,

Oh baby baby
A reason I breathe is you
Boy you've got me blinded
Oh baby baby
There's nothin' that I wouldn't do
That's not the way I planned it

Show me
How you want it to be
Tell me baby
'Cause I need to know now

amongst other things, whilst wearing a good amount of make up and staring into the camera (from what i recall)

The girl in the advert is never in a close up, doesn't appear to have much make up on, and is discussing bread with her little brother...

Tweasels Thu 08-Nov-12 13:40:26

The porn industry linked school uniform to sex. You are sexualising that young woman OP, not the advert.

Actual school uniform not sexy in a Pervy way just young women wanting to look nice. Hitching skirts up is not a new thing nor is it inappropriate for your children to see. There is much worse in magazines and newspapers.

Thank fuck trousers were in when I was at school. My legs would have looked like 2 half stuffed sausages in those socks.

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 13:40:39

I'm on about the skirt and socks.

What? The sexy thing was the outfit as a whole. She also wore black shoes. Maybe school girls shouldn't do that as its sexualising them.

In fact my dd has some fluffy bobbles like the ones in the Britney video. I didn't realise they were 'sexy'. Will stop her wearing them confused
And the black shoes and white shirt (even though it covers her stomach). In fact because of Britney, school uniforms should be banned as any version is sexy.
Really?

madoldbird Thu 08-Nov-12 13:43:41

Anyone else can't get the song out of their head now grin

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 13:43:41

Christ Everlong, get a grip. The girl was dressed for school, as thousands of children are every day. The boy was in uniform too.

I think there were quite a few women who had a thing for Britney, by the way.

The music industry were unashamedly selling a particular image to everyone equally.

Kingsmill are just flogging bread. Not in a sexual way, you understand.

IsabelleRinging Thu 08-Nov-12 13:45:07

What is it? "Miss all the humour in adverts week" on MN?

you only have to read some of the comments on the you tube link to see that the OP isn't being at all unreasonable. The response to the girl is definitely sexualised.

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 13:47:42

madold it's in my head too.... And I want some of that bread again now!

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 13:49:13

So you admit the music industry were selling an image of Britney in her mini skirt and over knee socks but if anyone dare suggest kingsmill are they get shot down.

It's aibu. Remember.

Jingleflobba Thu 08-Nov-12 13:50:48

I used to try and go to school dressed in pretty much the same way... Never managed to make it all the way up the path without getting "put your skirt on properly" shouted at my back... Neither did my mum and she was a schoolgirl in the 60's. roll skirt down then back up half way down the road! I wish I still had the legs for it tbh..
It's an age old morning ritual used in an advert. Mountains and molehills spring to mind.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 08-Nov-12 13:51:19

Everlong there aren't enough words to explain how tenuous an argument the one you just put forward is.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 13:52:16

Just had a look at the comments fish

As I expected.

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 13:52:33

But the girl in the ad is not gyrating over a piece of toast, or doing anything remotely out of the ordinary!

Do any of you know of anyone in real life who'd see anything untoward in that advert?
I mean, do you look at the child and think 'wow, she's hot'?

madoldbird Thu 08-Nov-12 13:52:53

witchety yabu for mentioning the bread and butter puddinggrin There are things i could do to that that shouldn't be on before the watershed...

SoupDragon Thu 08-Nov-12 13:54:05

Anyone who thinks that girl is using sex to sell bread needs to get a firm grip on the real world.

DreamingofSummer Thu 08-Nov-12 13:54:40

OP - get over y'self.

Make a complaint by all means but see what good it does

FlipFlippingFlippers Thu 08-Nov-12 13:56:14

Obi I am giggling about gyrating over a piece of toast.

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes Thu 08-Nov-12 13:56:17

fishandlilacs yes its really grim isnt it, however I still stand by my comments above. I thinks its more about their minds than the intention. school uniform = sex NO IT DOESNT unless you are a sad perv its what girls wear. They are clearly sad pervs comments, blaming girls for what they wear. girls should be able to follow fashion as we have all probably done without being judged or sexualised.

OatyBeatie Thu 08-Nov-12 13:57:48

I didn't read the ad as sexualising. It is a continuation of an earlier ad in which the girl is in minor good-natured conflict with her dad as a result of "typical teen" behaviour. (In the earlier ad the conflict is about her never letting her dad know for sure whether she will be in and eating at home or off having fun with friends.) The conflict over skirt-length is just more in the same vein. Unless you think that short skirts are essentially sexualising, then the ad is just about a standard family disagreement. I don't think short skirts are essentiually sexualising. I think the girl looks great and human and witty and not at all like a sexual object.

SoupDragon Thu 08-Nov-12 13:58:02

Clearly the girl should have been wearing a burkah to avoid other people thinking she is flaunting her sexiness.

FFS.

Jingleflobba Thu 08-Nov-12 13:58:19

Anybody who takes a blind bit of notice of the comments on youtube is being U. Someone posted a clip of DH singing on there and he got a comment about him being a professional singer. DH has an abundance of good qualities but singing is not one of them.

Softlysoftly Thu 08-Nov-12 13:58:37

Has anyone read the YouTube comments? The actress apparently outs herself as over 18 and gets the response.

"Now I know you're over 18 I don't feel bad getting my special sock and baby oil out"

Is it wrong I <<snorted>>?

Im on the don't see the issue camp btw.

BartletForTeamGB Thu 08-Nov-12 13:58:49

I didn't see any issue but I did like the idea of the fruity bread. It might make my toast in the morning a bit more interesting. Do you think it goes with Marmite or would lemon curd be better?

degutastic Thu 08-Nov-12 13:58:50

I'm starting to understand how so many completely normal innocuous seeming tv programmes and advertisements get complaints these days - some people seem to lack any grip on reality or common sense shock

Complain away, op hmm

Jingleflobba Thu 08-Nov-12 13:59:45

soup but then the OP would be complaining about the ad stereotyping Muslim women..

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 13:59:47

So you admit the music industry were selling an image of Britney in her mini skirt and over knee socks but if anyone dare suggest kingsmill are they get shot down. Its aibu. Remember

Yes with Britney they were because (can't believe I have to type this again) Britney was singing suggesive lyrics, was not dressed as a 'typical' school girl, she had her tummy out, full obvious make up, false lashes and was dancing suggestively.

She was not dessed as a normal school girl going to school doing usual school girl things.

Its 2 situations. As in on Halloween there are lots of 'sexy nurses' with boobs out and fishnets etc. Doesn't make the nurse uniform offensive.

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes Thu 08-Nov-12 13:59:50

I mean, do you look at the child and think 'wow, she's hot'? brilliant point obiwan I would not have given the ad a thought until this thread, mildly amusing ad with two kids in it meh seen smiled at and forgotten, you really have to have an odd mind to see sex in it.

Softlysoftly Thu 08-Nov-12 14:00:04

Ooops x post

LadyBeagle Thu 08-Nov-12 14:00:34

Half of all teenage schoolgirls are dressed like that.
They eat bread too.
Just a day in an ordinary life up and down the country.
People on here get offended by everything.

SoupDragon Thu 08-Nov-12 14:00:49

The point is that the girl in the ad is an accurate representation of a teenage schoolgirl off to school.

Britney was not.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 14:01:32

Hang on. You're all saying it's not sexual.

But then a man saying they would jizz if she walked in the room or they'd leave a bad taste in her mouth should be ignored.

How is that right.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 14:02:52

I'm referring to the comments on YouTube.

SoupDragon Thu 08-Nov-12 14:03:23

That makes the man a twat, it doesn't make the girl a sex object.

Ha ha then my teen son must have an 'odd' mind then - going on the way his eyes pop out whenever this ad comes on tv hmm

Personally the ad doesn't bother me - the girl is showing much less flesh than many other ads do - ie ads for shower gel, sun cream, etc. But to say that the girl is not dressed sexily is a bit strange confused

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 08-Nov-12 14:04:20

Everlong wait what?! That's what it says in the advert?!

Oh no...it's actually just some random on YouTube.

Because we all know people who comment on YouTube videos are completely normal and should be given our full and serious attention.

You and OP need to get a grip.

And PS since when have sad little mens' comments on Youtube been a reasonable marker for anything?

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes Thu 08-Nov-12 14:05:02

because they are filthy pervs who have pervy fantasies about children and have sexualised it because they are pervs, they probably letch over girls walking to school, doesnt make the girls sexy or wrong its about their inadequacies. making connections for themselves that are NOT THERE.

X-Posted smile

complexnumber Thu 08-Nov-12 14:05:26

Somehow I doubt if the target audience of the advert is the type of men who get a flutter from seeing a moment of bare legged teenage thigh.

It's aimed at families, and some of them have teenagers

LadyBeagle Thu 08-Nov-12 14:05:44

Because whatever the image you'll get some creepy fucker on the internet making these sorts of remarks.
Why the fuck should women have to change to pander to perverts?

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 14:05:59

Everlong.... That's 2 people out of the whole country

You are usually a calm reasoned poster, (and a fave of mine) what on earth has haprned to you everlong??

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 14:06:17

No.

You're saying it's not sexual. Yes they maybe a twat whoever has commented on it, but my point is that they still thought it.

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 14:07:00

YouTube comments are hardly representative of a mainstream school of thought Everlong.

Some poeple apparently find sheep irrisistible. Most people do not.

Kingsmill are not selling children for sex.

They are selling bread with an overpowering, and off putting, synthetic blueberry aroma.

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes Thu 08-Nov-12 14:07:17

badtasteflump nah its cos he is a teen boy finding a teen girl attractive bit different to adults perving over a child cos she is wearing a school uniform.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 14:07:41

Erm I'm calm and reasoned now. Very in fact.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 08-Nov-12 14:10:39

Are you sure Everlong?

Just because someone has written something sexual about the girl on YouTube doesn't mean the advert is sexualising her.

People on YouTube could write something sexual about cow shit.

missymoomoomee Thu 08-Nov-12 14:10:50

everlong someone I knew used to think allsorts about shoe adverts that came on tv, because he liked feet, does that mean that all shoe adverts should be banned because someone had a bit of a pervy thought about it?

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 14:10:57

everlong some people see babies as sexula objects, because they are sickos.

Does that mean babys grows are sexy? To the YouTube perv, it wouldn't have mattered what she looked like. He gets off looking at young girls. That's sick.
Some people get turned on by looking at feet, I still wear sandles when appropriate.

GobTheGoblin Thu 08-Nov-12 14:11:54

Never mind the advert, what does the bread taste like?

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 14:12:35

Ok.

Why is the dad telling the teenage dd not to wear her skirt so short if there isn't a problem?

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 14:14:26

For the same reason I tell my sons to pull their tousers up over their underwear.

Schools demand a certain standard of dress.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 14:15:43

<sigh>

OatyBeatie Thu 08-Nov-12 14:17:51

Everlong: because he is worried about the same sort of horrible inappropriate reactions as the ones on YouTube; and because he is a concerned but error-prone Dad trying to do the best for his daughter but without any huge perfection. Hence the non-aspirational but broadly healthy convenience breakfast -- the ad is aiming at an attainable, imperfect-but-good version of caring parenthood.

Not because the skirt is itself wrong.

mutny Thu 08-Nov-12 14:19:16

Because that's the joke. confused

LadyBeagle Thu 08-Nov-12 14:22:54

That's what I was going to ask Gob grin
I've never seen the advert but am now tempted to buy the bread when I'm in town tomorrow.
It looks quite nice.
The power of advertising, eh.
I'll let you know BTW.

Everlong Thu 08-Nov-12 14:24:34

It's just fruit toast but normal bread size, surely.

Or have I got that completely wrong too.

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 14:29:23

The bread is horrible. I still have 1.75 loaves in the freezer, because I hate throwing out food, but can't give the stuff away.

There is something very artificial about it. I think the ingredients listed blueberry flavoured pieces.

Witchety Thu 08-Nov-12 14:29:42

Bit smaller than bread size actually.... With blueberry and pineapple.

lollilou Thu 08-Nov-12 14:30:06

Ffs when I saw this add I thought the daughter looks like my dd, the bread looks nice and smiled at the skirt comment as I have said this to dd alot of times.
I did not at any moment think about sex or pervs.

TwistyBraStrap Thu 08-Nov-12 14:30:14

My loneliness is killing me... Aaaaand Iiiiii <warbles>

I had the exact same argument with my father. At breakfast time. Eating toast.

The only difference is this toast has fruit in it, that little brother is more annoying than my dad was and I wore tights, not socks.

Yes, there's a sexy-Britney-type schoolgirl, and then there's the millions of schoolgirls that age who have to wear a uniform.

Not sexualised IMO apart from the bread, yum

anklebitersmum Thu 08-Nov-12 14:35:06

Short skirt looks good (some might even say sexy) on young, attractive girl on the advert. Designed to attract young girls to bread on a 'you can look like me' basis and young men on a 'if I like her toast I might get a girlfriend like her' basis. Young lad's already eating it no dramas.

Parents are supposed to chuckle at the 'not going out like that' line because we've all been there (with boys and girls) whilst being reassured that all age groups (even the figure conscious, breakfast avoiding teen girl) will happily eat this now really good for you bread.

Doesn't make the advert exploitative of teen girls.

WorraLiberty Thu 08-Nov-12 14:40:12

Anyone accused middle aged women of perving over the handsome boy yet?

No, thought not....

Tee2072 Thu 08-Nov-12 14:46:01

Shock! Sex to sell something?!?

::faints::

GobTheGoblin Thu 08-Nov-12 14:50:24

Think I'll give the bread a miss then. grin

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes Thu 08-Nov-12 16:40:00

actually worra you made me think about that awful ad for one of the personalised card stores where the bloke is on everything and the voice over is horridly letchy woman who gets him to take his top off. every time I see it I think god if that was a woman on that ad and a male voiceover all hell would let loose, don't like it think its sexist towards men in a very old fashioned way but cba to make a complaint.

SoupDragon Thu 08-Nov-12 16:53:43

But to say that the girl is not dressed sexily is a bit strange

No, it is strange to say that a girl wearing her school uniform is sexily dressed.

TiggyD Thu 08-Nov-12 17:02:52

YABU. Try the feminist and women's rights forum if you want lots of people to agree with you.

and IWTTSOTB. (I want to try some of that bread)

jeanvaljean Thu 08-Nov-12 17:31:51

OP YANBU. I first saw that ad during X Factor and had to rewind it as I couldn't believe what I'd just seen. It's particularly striking given the Savile furore. If the ad has used an average looking teenager - short, hockey legged, acne ridden - then it could be classed as a 'joke for families'. Using a leggy model who looks exactly like the archetype you see all over internet porn shows it is barely disguised titillation. It astounds me that people are up in arms about the ASDA ad, when an ad portraying a teenage girl as a (wantonly asking-for-it) sex object is seen as amusing. Bizarre.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 08-Nov-12 17:47:41

given that js has now been brought into the thread.

i could go to jail for what i was thinking of doint to the bread i just purchased

Jingleflobba Thu 08-Nov-12 17:55:10

I had a good look at the high school girls on their way home from school tonight because of this thread, all of them from the same school as DS. This school has a rule that skirts must be of a certain length, they're actually embroidered with the school badge so every girl wears the same skirt. All of the skirts were waaay above the knee, most worn with long socks. If these girls didn't roll their skirts up as soon as they left the building I will show my arse on Tower Hill.
Some of the girls were tall and pretty, some shorter etc, some younger than the age of the girl portrayed in the ad. None of them looked sexy (except more than likely to my DS but he doesn't count in this, being 12 and a raging bundle of hormones). This was in real life. They were dressed almost identically to the girl in the ad and they presumably dressed themselves rather than being given a 'costume' to wear by the makers of the advert. And I bet most of them had a "pull your skirt down" converrsation on the way out of the door this morning.
And fwiw, the few fathers in the schoolyard didn't even look their way.
Still YABU.

Naysa Thu 08-Nov-12 17:59:22

I was more outraged by the state of her eye brows tbh.

Naysa Thu 08-Nov-12 17:59:23

I was more outraged by the state of her eye brows tbh.

soverylucky Thu 08-Nov-12 17:59:38

I hate what she is wearing - I hate those over the knee socks - too much like stockings imo and it never ceases to amaze me that mums think they look nice on their girls. They don't. They look cheap and nasty.
The advert is shit. It isn't shit enough that I would complain about it. She does look like a lot of teenage girls because too many parents don't really try to stop their girls dressing in a certain way. I remember my dad saying " you are not going out in that" when I tried to wear a mini skirt. So I didn't.

LadyBeagle Thu 08-Nov-12 18:03:25

Same as my ds17's female friends Jingle. As girls have been doing since I was at school back in the 70's
And jeanvaljean if the ad makes you think that way it's you that are bizarre. Do you really think all female teens have hockey legs and acne hmm?

ObiWan Thu 08-Nov-12 18:04:08

The weirdness of the day has finally overwhelmed me.

I can't tell whether jeanvaljean is being ironic, or not grin.

Jingleflobba Thu 08-Nov-12 18:08:11

sovery I didn't go out 'like that' either, I did it half way down the road. Socks right up, skirt rolled up and shirt out. So did my mum and she went to a rather posh school back in the 60's.

LadyBeagle Thu 08-Nov-12 18:08:12

Since when has a teenager ever dressed to suit their parents?
It's a rite of passage to make ridiculous fashion mistakes to make you cringe at in later years, and for your own teens to say OMG what were you thinking.

lollilou Thu 08-Nov-12 18:08:52

(wantonly asking-for-it) sex object Wtaf!

anklebitersmum Thu 08-Nov-12 18:15:26

Anyone seen the 'Friends' episode where they get free porn so they're scared to turn it off and begin to wonder why the pizza guy's not up for it? Some people round here need to turn the internet off hmm

If that girl's 'wantonly asking for it' I'm Twiggy-shaped (I am so not Twiggy shape).

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 08-Nov-12 18:19:52

This thread cannot possibly get any more bizarre than it is at this point if jeanvaljeans comment is serious.

soverylucky Thu 08-Nov-12 18:19:56

I don't think the girl is asking for it - what a horrid thought. I think most mums just see a teenage girl who is being a bit of a rebel. Sadly though it is common knowledge that the schoolgirl/short skirt look is popular with some men for reasons best known to themselves. I think kingsmill could have selected a different image.

GraduallyGoingInsane Thu 08-Nov-12 18:40:19

I definitely think YABU. When we first saw the advert, DH and I laughed - it could have been a morning here with any of our elder three DDs. To be fair, DD1 even had the good grace to blush.

I took the advert as a standard family, trying to get some breakfast down a teen girl at any cost (even if it is manky toast!). I must admit, I agree with whoever said that the only bizarre bit was the extent of the Dad and Son's bread conversations!

That girl doesn't look remotely sexy - she looks similar in appearance to 95% of the girls at DDs school, and better than most of the girls we pass from a couple of the other less strict schools in town who are all beehived and fake tanned and made up to the nines.

Chopstheduck Thu 08-Nov-12 18:49:27

Not read the whoe thread, but this could EASILY be a morning in our house.

Daughter is Hirt skirt - check
(The school sets a length and they all roll up the waistbands, I only bother telling her to roll it down once it gets to 8" or so!)
Smart Alec younger brother - check
Daughter who doesn't want to eat breakfast - check

AND she likes kings mill fruit and fibre!

The sexuality you are implying is in your head, op. dd doesn't roll her skirt up for sexual reasons, she does it cos it is the cool thing to do and she wants to fit in with h friends, just like every other 12 year old.

missymoomoomee Thu 08-Nov-12 18:50:35

So wearing a short skirt is 'wantonly asking-for-it' - have I fallen back into the dark ages or something.

Chopstheduck Thu 08-Nov-12 18:52:17

Tts what worries me. If pervey old men get off on seeing a 12 year old dressed like that, it is them that is sick, and there is no way on earth my daughter is 'asking fr it' angry

Chopstheduck Thu 08-Nov-12 18:56:56

Dd's sense of fashion can be bloody diabolical at times, she is just trying to look cool! Last week I did draw the line at pigtails, straw hat, pink gillet, red top and too short jeans, but only cos I had to walk round town with her! There was absolutely nothing 'sexy' about that, it is just her expressing herself as a teenage girl. Exactly the same with the uniform, it's just others interpretations!

JustFabulous Thu 08-Nov-12 18:58:19

jeanvaljean seriously? OMG if that is what goes on in your head God help you should you or any of your family be raped while wearing a short skirt since you think "there are wantonly asking for it."

DH has just informed me that the Daily Mail are quoting "Mumsnets" view on this ad, as they have also done with the BFing doll....

SoupDragon Sun 11-Nov-12 14:52:03

Yes... interesting how they only quoted the minority who thought the ad was inappropriate rather than those who couldn't see the problem.

A grand total of 19 complaints was received about it. LOL. Nineteen grin

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 11-Nov-12 14:55:48

The only thing wrong with the advert is they have but fruit in bread

LadyBeagle Sun 11-Nov-12 15:13:23

FFS sake, really Beyond?
The Wright Stuff do this too, and it really pisses me off.
It makes Mumsnetters look like a bunch of loons because of one OP in which the majority of posters don't agree with.
Why do they never pick up on that?

dm story link

"Web forums were deluged with critical comments. One parent wrote on Mumsnet: ‘I really think it exploits teenage girls. At the end there is a girl dressed in a very short skirt, over-the-knee stockings and it’s basically her school uniform.‘I just don’t see how it’s appropriate or what it has to do with a Kingsmill loaf. It’s blatantly using sex to sell an everyday product.’ Another parent noted: ‘I think it’s grim, to be honest. The same joke could’ve been made by dressing the girl in any number of other unsuitable-for-school outfits. ‘The camera lingers on her giving a twirl, and the over-the-knee socks make her look like she’s in “naughty schoolgirl” fancy dress. Yuk.’"

BeauNeidel Sun 11-Nov-12 16:24:28

I think you are missing the point of the ad tbh. It's not about her being a sexy school girl, it's about her being rebellious!

And I know SP - fruit in bread? Whatever next!

Bfing doll...

dm link

"Angry parents have hit out at the doll created by Spanish makers Berjuan Toys.The Mirror reported that one mum labelled it 'toe-curlingly gross' on Mumsnet, while another branded the toy 'disgusting'"

Mrsjay Sun 11-Nov-12 16:29:22

this is how a lot of teen girls go to school with teeny tiny skirts I am sure a lot of dads dont want their girls going out dressed like that it isnt about sex it is about a teenager in a teeny tiny skirt which alot of them wear -and look freezing--

Does anyone else find it funny that mumsnet product tested this bread...? grin didnt pick me though, bastards

GhostShip Sun 11-Nov-12 16:32:22

Oh Christ shall we just get rid of adverts entirely because they can't seem to show eff all without some chief offended busy body reporting it. What has happened to people? confused

GhostShip Sun 11-Nov-12 16:40:07

And lets make all young girls on tv wear curtains. Because god forbid, they flash a bit of leg.

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 16:53:05

Yeah, I mean, come on- it's just a laugh. You know, a laugh about how hilarious it is that yet ANOTHER generation of young girls are growing up believing that the only way to gain attention is to hoik up their skirts until old square-daddy-o puts his foot down (via his pre-pubescent son) and tells them NO the silly, silly girls HahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HA!

GhostShip Sun 11-Nov-12 16:57:07

Actually, its simulating family life. Nothing to do with sexism or whatever you're trying to insinuate there.

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 16:59:53

Family life, like most things, is affected by sexism- it's absurd to imply that it's not.

Just because it happens IRL doesn't mean it isn't sexist.

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 17:06:20

This advert for example, is no longer ok even though it's still a fact that most family cooking is done by the woman.

missymoomoomee Sun 11-Nov-12 17:08:42

I would have thought her going out wearing what she wants despite a man telling her what to do would be a good thing (if you choose to view the world as men vs women). Whats sexist about that?

Looks like the dm read this thread. <looks around suspiciously>

Oops xposted with about 10 people smile

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 17:14:16

"I would have thought her going out wearing what she wants despite a man telling her what to do would be a good thing"

Really? I'm not sure why.

SoupDragon Sun 11-Nov-12 17:28:49

You know, a laugh about how hilarious it is that yet ANOTHER generation of young girls are growing up believing that the only way to gain attention is to hoik up their skirts until old square-daddy-o puts his foot down

I agree. Far better that we make them wear something like a tent to cover themselves up.

I don't find the advert particularly offensive. But Ido think it is VERY LAZY advertising and really the best idea they could come up with was a girl ina short skirt.
Very uninspiring. A chimp would do a better job of advertising it.

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 17:37:49

Yes, soup. That's exactly what I was saying, only I used different words with a different meaning.

I'd like to see a society where girls are valued by their peers just as much for wearing a tent as for wearing a short skirt; until then, not mocking evidence of how entrenched and pervasive sexism is in our society as an inevitable fact of life would do.

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 17:38:35

I don't find it offensive.

I find it sexist and stupid.

ShellyBoobs Sun 11-Nov-12 17:59:56

I wonder if that advert is depicting the morning after the previous advert where she came home stoned and prepared to stuff herself senseless with the 'pockets'?

It's the same girl isn't it?

She looks remarkably alert and awake, if so. grin

SoupDragon Sun 11-Nov-12 18:00:00

Personally, i'd like to see a society where people can wear whatever they like without it being described in sexual terms.

LadyBeagle Sun 11-Nov-12 18:18:08

Quite SoupDragon.
Tethersend, did you never roll your skirt up at school?
The girls that do it are silly sweet teens, it's what they do and always will.
The only problem is the pervs that look at them and think it's a sexual thing.

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 18:28:51

Of course I did, ladybeagle- that doesn't mean that I can't see that girls do it (as I did) as a result of living in a patriarchal society which values women more highly the fewer clothes they wear. Of course women's fashion is a product of this, and girls see dressing in such a way as being synonymous with maturity. This is what I find sad.

SoupDragon Sun 11-Nov-12 19:07:04

Well, I see it rather differently. The problem lies with the twats that see SEX when they see a girl in a short skirt, not with the girl or the skirt.

LadyBeagle Sun 11-Nov-12 19:10:06

But you learned from that, didn't you Tethers?
So just let them, as I said above, it's a rite of passage.
If we sit and look at them with our catsbum faces we're doing exactly what our parents did to us.
They'll learn.
Having said that I only have a teenage son and the teen girls he knows do dress like that but are also lovely.
Let them be.

Mrsjay Sun 11-Nov-12 19:12:58

what soup dragon said

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 19:16:57

No lady, it was not the act of rolling up my skirt which taught me about it.

And, from looking at this thread and that advert, it would seem they don't learn- otherwise they wouldn't continue to see it as a harmless 'rite of passage'.

Girls who roll up their skirts aren't to blame, and of course they are lovely... but this does not mean that it's not sexist.

Soup, I don't think you can neatly cleave teenage girl's fashion from a male construct of sexuality. There is nothing wrong with 'SEX', but when only the heterosexual male version of it masquerades as fashion for teenage girls to follow, it makes me sad.

squeakytoy Sun 11-Nov-12 19:18:55

I was hitching my skirt up as I left the house to go to school 30 years ago..with one of my parents usually yelling at me to unroll the waistband.. the advert is true to life, and anyone who sees sexuality in it other than that of the typical teenage girl who is trying to impress her male peers has forgotten what most teenagers are like, or just like to be outraged for the bloody sake of it.

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 19:31:13

Don't you find it even a bit sad that that's how a teenage girl has to try and impress her male peers?

GhostShip Sun 11-Nov-12 19:32:31

I don't personally. Because they try to impress us back!

Its natural to want to impress the opposite sex, we're not the only animals that do it.

squeakytoy Sun 11-Nov-12 19:33:51

No I dont find it sad.. it is human nature, always has been and always will be.

Males have their own ways of behaviour when trying to attract females..

SoupDragon Sun 11-Nov-12 19:36:59

I guess that in the wild, most male animals are the flamboyant ones with the females being drab little creatures.

Is this what you think humans should revert to?

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 19:38:01

It's not the act of impressing the opposite sex which saddens me, just that the vast majority of acceptable ways for girls to impress boys involve revealing flesh as opposed to being witty, intelligent or any of the other ways in which boys impress girls.

There is a debate to be had as to the extent that girls court male approval, but that's not actually the debate that I'm having.

I'm simply saying that I find it sad, stupid and sexist that a bread manufacturer is reinforcing this.

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 19:39:20

'Is this what you think humans should revert to?'

Why would boys showing off flesh be a retrograde step?

LadyBeagle Sun 11-Nov-12 19:40:54

Well my ds does it.
With his shower every morning and his aftershave and the fuss he makes with his hair. It's just about how cool he's going to look.
Kind of what Ghostship said.
We all grew out of that shit once our hormones had died down, I'm so not going to lecture them about it.

squeakytoy Sun 11-Nov-12 19:42:00

Boys do often show off their flesh, boys aspire to have muscles, they wear clothes that show off their muscles and six packs..

The bread manufacturer was not reinforcing anything other than a typical teenage girl and a parents viewpoint.

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 11-Nov-12 19:43:39

You should see the teenage lads near me once there's a bit of sun.

Pigeon chests are out, they strut around like they are body builders when in fact they look like Pepperamis.

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 19:53:59

Look, I'm a secondary teacher- I am not ignorant of teenage behaviour, trust me grin

I'm not saying that boys never show of their flesh- just that it is one of many ways in which they can attract female attention. Save a few gay clubs, everywhere you look there is far more female flesh on display than male; this powerful message filters down to teenagers and girls are competing for male attention as if it were the only way in which to validate themselves (but that's another thread wink) by revealing flesh en masse.

LadyBeagle Sun 11-Nov-12 21:00:23

But what I'm trying to say Tethers is they grow out of it. Like you did and I did and like the majority of the posters on this thread did.
I don't think I was damaged hitching up my skirt, they'll live and learn just like we did. grin.

GhostShip Sun 11-Nov-12 21:02:59

When I was a teen (2 years ago sob) I wore revealing clothes coz I had an amazing body and I was bloody proud of it.

I felt good and wanted to show my flesh, I don't think I ever thought 'ooo the lads'll love this'.

And before someone says, it's not deeply ingrained or whatever psycobabble someone wants to come out with... we can show flesh for ourselves not just other people grin

smilingthroughgrittedteeth Sun 11-Nov-12 21:10:16

DSD who is 14 says that the reason she rolls her skirt up is because it looks good and she is young so why shouldn't she, she will soon be old like me and her mum cheeky cow I'm 29 hardly ancient and will have to wear suitable, long, boring skirts!

That sort of contradicts those saying girls do it to look mature, judging by dsd and her friends its got nothing to do with being mature.

I'm sure it is also to attract boys but its no different than any grown women dressing nicely to go to work, its just that as we grow and develop self-confidence we change our view on what looking nice is.

I still think the advert shows a typical interaction involving a teenage girl, dad and annoying younger brother.

baskingseals Sun 11-Nov-12 21:23:24

i agree with tethersend.

the image of a teenage girl in a short skirt is not one of rebelliousness. it is a male image of female sexuality. the real life teenagers who roll thier skirts up are also subscribing to a male idea of sexuality.

it is not an empowering message to give to our daughters.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 11-Nov-12 21:33:49

I used to roll mine up because it felt like being a rebel, I went to a all girls boarding school so no contact with boys or men but it felt a bit like sticking to fingers up at the system.

It's the same reason I used to spike my hair up and roll my socks down into donuts, because it was against the rules.

If our uniform was a short skirt spiked hair and donut socks I would have sowed fabric to the skirt to make it longer given myself a basin cut and worn woolly tights.

SoupDragon Sun 11-Nov-12 21:34:59

Why would boys showing off flesh be a retrograde step?

That's not what I said. Do you think females should revert to drab little creatures? Why do you think it would be acceptable for boys to show off flesh if you think girls shouldn't?

SoupDragon Sun 11-Nov-12 21:36:59

the real life teenagers who roll thier skirts up are also subscribing to a male idea of sexuality.

Perhaps it is those who make that assumption who are subscribing to a male idea of sexuality, not the teenage girls.

GhostShip Sun 11-Nov-12 21:37:10

I'm sick of other women telling me why I did something.

I'm sick of women telling me I've made decisions because of men.

You're the ones doing the disempowering.

SoupDragon Sun 11-Nov-12 21:40:32

it is not an empowering message to give to our daughters.

So, "wear what you like and do not pay attention to what others think" is not empowering, and "you can't wear this because it is perceived by some to be a male fantasy" is?

squeakytoy Sun 11-Nov-12 21:40:49

well said Ghosty.

I go out showing cleavage because I want to.. not because I am subscribing to any sort of male ideals..

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 11-Nov-12 21:42:56

The people who look at a girl in a short skirt as part of a school uniform are wrong uns

I didn't see it as sexualising girls. I saw it as something funny tbh.

But then again I find it hard to be offended by adverts and I don't go looking for sexism.

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 11-Nov-12 21:44:20

The people who look at a girl in a short skirt as part of a school uniform are wrong uns <---- not completed! Otherwise we would all be wrong uns.

If people look at that and see it sexually they are wrong uns.

baskingseals Sun 11-Nov-12 21:46:10

so why are they wearing short skirts then?

GhostShip Sun 11-Nov-12 21:47:13

I've answered that question already basking

^When I was a teen (2 years ago sob) I wore revealing clothes coz I had an amazing body and I was bloody proud of it.

I felt good and wanted to show my flesh, I don't think I ever thought 'ooo the lads'll love this^

And it looked better. Long skirts made my calfs look big. Or so I thought grin

InSPsFanjoNoOneHearsYouScream Sun 11-Nov-12 21:50:01

I have worn short skirts before. I wear short dresses when I go out. I don't go out hoping men will fall at my feet though. I wear it as it makes me feel good.

tethersend Sun 11-Nov-12 22:37:12

Well, I think I'm giving up here, TBH.

If you really, really believe that we and all other teenage girls hitched up our skirts as an act of empowerment then I'm not sure I have the energy to argue, as it will take a very, very long time.

None of us make decisions in a void. You don't need to look for sexism, it will find you. If you don't believe it's there, fair enough- but expect to be accused of naivety now and again.

But if you'll excuse me, I think I have some jelly which isn't going to nail itself to the wall grin

FWIW, I am with tethers on this one too. I am coming late to this, I know.

As a teenager some 25 years <gasp> ago, I never had the inclination to hitch up my skirt. Or the gut tbh, because I was well aware that it would attract male attention - wanted and unwanted; both of which made me equally uncomfortable at the time.

It might be a 'rite of passage' to play with ones sexual appeal as a young woman, but there is no denying that that maybe innocent trying out of different roles is exploited in that ad. It is sexist and a reflection what still is considered 'normal' for a young girl, including the males in her life 'setting her right'.

<<joins tethers with hammer and jelly>>

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 11-Nov-12 23:06:57

I must have so much catching up to do with regards to experiencing sexism. I've never had an experience which I would honestly describe as me being a victim of sexism/patriarchal society.

I've got a really really thick skin or am hideously ugly.

cantspel Sun 11-Nov-12 23:10:48

well i was a teen around 25 years ago and i hitched up my skirts and worse. i had a very fetching black bin liner that i would wear as a dress. I dont even think it covered my bum cheeks let alone reached my thighs.

ShellyBoobs Sun 11-Nov-12 23:23:15

And it looked better. Long skirts made my calfs look big. Or so I thought

Ah, but you only worried about your calves looking big because you were being disempowered/sexualised/degraded (delete as applicable) by males.

You can't possibly have had your own opinion, Ghost. Oh no.

grin

LadyBeagle Sun 11-Nov-12 23:27:53

I'm leaving this thread too Tethers.
I don't know what you want our teens to do, they're not allowed to hitch their skirts up (like you admitted you did), instead they should just do what we say.
It ain't going to happen, they'll follow the trend of their peers.
And a minority of creepy men will look at them as sexual objects, but sadly, it seems, so will some ardent feminists.
Burkhas for all I think, after reading this thread.

This is not about what teenagers will or will not grin wear. Or us or anybody else telling them what to wear.

It is about a company which is aiming to sell its product (bread) to a family market. With a bit of 'oh look how healthy this is - it's got fruit in it' thrown in hmm.
And to promote that message, apparently a teenaged girl in a Britney Spiers outfit is required.

I know fine well that teenagers will wear whatever they jolly well please, and that is how it should be, but not a single one of them decide this in a vacuum. They might think they are all rebellious, but really sadly the girls with the short skirts are just conforming to expectations sadangry.
And women in burkhas are conforming to societal pressures as well - not the same thing of course, but just sayin'...

LadyBeagle Mon 12-Nov-12 00:10:15

Again though, Pacific, did you dress to conform with your peers and piss off your folks when you were a teenager?
Because to me that's pretty much what the ad is saying.
And in ten years time we'll still see pretty much the same thing.
There will always be a battle between teens and their parents, I think the ad is sweet and funny and saw no sexual connotations at all until I came on this thread.

sashh Mon 12-Nov-12 04:01:53

mutny if the actress was short, overweight with stumpy little legs men wouldn't letch as much would they. If at all.

I was short, overweight and still have stumpy legs - pleanty of letch recieved though.

SoupDragon Mon 12-Nov-12 07:02:47

Tethers, you may do better if you didn't feel the need to insult people who don't agree with your rigid view. Just because it's what you believe doesn't make it right

SoupDragon Mon 12-Nov-12 07:16:05

This is exactly why I hid all the feminist boards. The whole I'm right and you are an ignorant fool attitude.

I maintain that if you look at that ad and see SEX then you are the one with the problem. If you see a girl dressed like that and think they should cover up to conform with your views then again, you are the one with the problem. \
As I see it, the fact that, if she wants to, a girl can wear a short skirt without being locked up/attacked/whipped by the state or whatever is a sign of freedom - they can wear what they want. That is empowerment. Not "Oh, you mustn't wear that as it is a sign of a patriarchal society"

As an aside, if they are dressing like that to attract male attention - so what? Is that not what we are meant to do as a species?

If you think Kingsmill are using some kind of male sexual fantasy to sell bread then you are rather odd.

Everlong Mon 12-Nov-12 07:23:02

I don't think anybody should cover up. Young and beautiful or otherwise.

But it doesn't stop men looking, letching, sexualising them.

That will never stop.

tethersend Mon 12-Nov-12 07:47:18

Soup, please point out where i have insulted anyone. Also, show me where I have told anyone they mustn't wear anything.

Do I believe I'm right? Of course I do. Just as you believe you're right when you cite the wearing of miniskirts as a sign of female empowerment grin

But yes, I said I was out. Jelly, wall, etc.

GhostShip Mon 12-Nov-12 07:48:22

Shelley i was waiting for that grin

lozster Mon 12-Nov-12 09:16:41

I don't have kids teenage or otherwise but I have to admit this ad leapt out at me. Whilst actually relatively mild i think it is designed to be evocative of britney. The girl looks older than a school girl too. She is actually 18 so could 'just' about be wearing uniform for school however she looks like an adult wearing uniform to me and adults normally only wear uniform to appear sexy so it does have that connotation. I think this was a very knowing choice on the part of the brand and that is why it feels a bit exploitative to me. Ok not on a par with the Taliban gunning down school girls I get that, however, I don't think the ad would stand out if the girl was 13 and very obviously a child.

Arthurfowlersallotment Mon 12-Nov-12 09:18:52

No amount of advertising will alter the fact that Kingsmill bread tastes horrible.

socharlotte Mon 12-Nov-12 09:29:02

She looks like a sixth former to me, and so could be anything under 20 (some kids need a 3rd year in the sixth form)

LadyBeagle Mon 12-Nov-12 09:39:17

This is going to be discussed on The Wright Stuff today.

qo Mon 12-Nov-12 09:45:18

I don't see any teenage girls going to school like that in my area.

And I don't really see the need for having a young girl in a sexy outfit to advertise bread. It is using sex to sell imo.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 12-Nov-12 10:25:48

This is on Wright Stuff shortly.

Complainers get your opinions in now!

Everlong Mon 12-Nov-12 10:32:45

I agree totally with you lozter you put it much better than I tried to earlier in the thread.

SoupDragon Mon 12-Nov-12 11:06:36

Just as you believe you're right when you cite the wearing of miniskirts as a sign of female empowerment

Actually I said that the right to wear whatever you like is a sign of female empowerment but feel free to twist it to fit your agenda. Historically, females have been told to cover up, now they have the freedom to wear whatever they want. If my daughter grows up with the confidence to wear whatever she wants without anyone telling her what she should be doing or trying to say they know why she is doing it then great. I will have raised a strong, empowered female.

And if you don't think that making snide comments about nailing jelly to walls and that it would take too long to explain things etc is insulting then that says a lot really.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 12-Nov-12 11:12:33

Men don't tell me what to do. Ever. Except if they happen to be my boss. They don't tend to presume to have that right.

Why is it then that uptight women feel they have the right to dictate what other women think,say,do and wear?

Is that exactly the point of feminism? I feel far more judged by women than I ever have by men.

tethersend Mon 12-Nov-12 11:30:39

Soup, thank you for conceding that I have not told anyone what to wear. I will concede that the jelly and taking too long to explain comments were a little snide, I am quite frustrated that anyone believes some of the things they profess to.

You said:

"As I see it, the fact that, if she wants to, a girl can wear a short skirt without being locked up/attacked/whipped by the state or whatever is a sign of freedom - they can wear what they want. That is empowerment."

You see, I disagree. It is not a sign of empowerment at all- please correct me if I am 'twisting things to fit my agenda'. I am only going on the points you raised; Imagine a group of schoolgirls. What they want to wear, not what anyone has told them to, not parents, not boyfriends, not magazines, not TV, not the state, is likely to be very different from one another, right? Free of all external influences?

If you take a group of 1500 teenage girls, and they all exert their free will and wear whatever they want, can you explain why they dress almost identically to one another? Fashion is powerful, and what I am saying is that fashion is tailored to the heterosexual male gaze.

This is not about anyone telling anyone what to wear- that is polarising the argument. I am telling nobody what to wear- I may even wear miniskirts myself- but I am asking us to be honest about why we wear them.

tethersend Mon 12-Nov-12 11:37:39

Alis, I have searched the thread and I really can't see any 'uptight women' dictating what other women think, say, do and wear.

You are as free to pander to the narrow patriarchal version of female worth and beauty as I am.

HeathRobinson Mon 12-Nov-12 11:41:32

This is all very well, but what's the bread like? wink

tethersend Mon 12-Nov-12 11:53:57

Oppressed grin

Woozley Mon 12-Nov-12 11:54:14

There are an awful lot of gay male fashion designers, and women, so I'm not sure I entirely take the point about it being designed for the heterosexual male gaze.

And I don't see what is wrong, per se, about wanting to be attractive to the opposite sex, or the same sex, even as a teenage girl. It's life, basically!

anklebitersmum Mon 12-Nov-12 11:54:52

bread's not all that nice by all accounts heath. Never tried it myself-I bake my own using the Kenwood Chef that doting hubby bought me grin

lozster Mon 12-Nov-12 11:56:03

See, what makes me uncomfortable about this ad is that it blurs the boundaries. The school uniform is normally a sign that the wearer is a child. When it is worn by an adult the meaning is changed. I'm probably influenced here by the fact that 6th forms near me either don't wear uniform or wear a suit. This is why, to me, the female looks far too old for the role.

The second thing that makes me uncomfortable is that I suspect that the brand/ ad people (men????) knew darn well what they were about here. It may be a bit cynical but I imagine this being discussed as 'one for the dad's.' This isn't girls making their own minds up in a truimph of feminism, it is manipulation.

As I mentioned up thread, there are bigger issues in the world, however, my visceral reaction to this was that it was a tad creepy. It stands out which is an ad job done and this makeshift suspect the motivation.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 12-Nov-12 12:01:15

tethers You are one of them.

And yes, I am. Thank you for validating my choices though. I really appreciate it.

Woozley Mon 12-Nov-12 12:02:29

Men are often aroused by pubescent girls, the vast majority are able to put it out of their minds as being inappropriate. Some will act inappropriately no matter what women or girls wear. Stop putting the responsibility on girls to dress appropriately and more on men, and teaching young lads, to act appropriately.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 12-Nov-12 12:05:22

Is it not every persons responsibly to behave/dress appropriately?

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 12-Nov-12 12:06:33

*responsibility.

And no,I do not mean act/dress appropriately with regard to rape or child molestation before anyone even goes there.

tethersend Mon 12-Nov-12 12:07:30

Fair point about gay designers, Woozley (although the miniskirt was invented by a woman wink)- although I don't think anyone would argue that gay men are the driving force behind the way women dress.

Gay designers know that women want to attract male attention, and you are right, there is nothing wrong with wanting to attract male attention at all. It is they way in which girls feel they should attract male attention which saddens me. Women and girls are rarely given the message that their sharp wit or intelligence will attract the opposite sex; at best, these qualities are seen as add-ons to the essential rules they must follow with their appearances.

Someone joked upthread that long skirts made their calves look big, and someone else joked that this couldn't possibly be their own opinion without ever questioning why big calves are less desirable than small ones.

tethersend Mon 12-Nov-12 12:08:38

"tethers You are one of them."

Again, please point out where I have dictated what anyone should wear.

Woozley Mon 12-Nov-12 12:09:49

But as teenagers they are just learning their own sense of style, how they want to come across to others - did no-one ever get it wrong, or can you not remember back that far, or did you hit 13 and suddenly dress as a 45 year old?

tethersend Mon 12-Nov-12 12:11:37

"Stop putting the responsibility on girls to dress appropriately and more on men, and teaching young lads, to act appropriately."

Yes, this. I agree completely. Which is why I am saddened by the advert which reinforces girls wearing short skirts as a cultural norm and inevitable fact of life, rather than questioning why they feel they need to.

I believe women should be able to walk around in a bikini and be treated the same as if they were wearing a boiler suit. the question I am asking is why they aren't- and this is evidenced by the number of schoolgirls wearing boiler suits.

tethersend Mon 12-Nov-12 12:21:45

As I've already said Woozeley- I hitched my skirt up with the best of them. I wear low cut tops even at the grand old age of 35 (what does a 45 year old dress like, anyway?). But I know why I'm doing it. I'm doing it because it attracts attention from men and women in our patriarchal society. After all, I don't sit around watching Eastenders in heels and make-up, even though I wear them to work. I make choices, but they are choices made knowing what societal expectations of women are. I would not call them free choices, or signs of empowerment.

It's not as simple as anyone who finds fault with this advert = joyless old harridan who wants everyone to wear dungarees.

Mrsjay Mon 12-Nov-12 12:26:39

Again, please point out where I have dictated what anyone should wear.

but you are sort of saying that this girl is dressing to please men the advertisers have got this girl dressed like this to please men this is about rebellion not a mini skirt and if you go into any high school today you will see girls dressed like this.

MY eldest daughter was 17 and wearing a school uniform infact she was 18 and wearing a school uniform as we do 6th form in high school here so she was an adult dressing in a uniform , not to please men because that is what she had to wear somedays she wore trousers somedays she wore a skirt and yes sometimes it was a bit teeny tiny like the girl in the advert not with those god awful socks though

tethersend Mon 12-Nov-12 12:32:04

"but you are sort of saying that this girl is dressing to please men"

Sort of saying? That's not the same as saying it. Girls wear short skirts for a number of complex reasons- I am arguing that the driving force behind most of these reasons is to attract male attention within the narrow constructs allowed in a patriarchal society. Not because a man told them to.

Besides which, I have told nobody what to wear, and would love to see any evidence of me doing so.

piratecat Mon 12-Nov-12 12:32:04

skirt's too short. knee socks are too like stockings.

looks cheap. i saw this for this first time this morning and raised me brows in a oh ffs manner.

hoodoo12345 Mon 12-Nov-12 14:24:45

I can't say any alarm bells rang when i watched this ad the other day, i am much more offended by Rihanna and the like.
Saying that none of the teenagers at my DD's school dress like the girl in the advert, its all trousers.

Everlong Mon 12-Nov-12 14:29:11

But Rhianna isn't portraying herself as a school girl.

Our objections are NOT about what the girl in the ad is wearing; they are about the fact that some advertising suits saw fit to to use this stereotype of adolescent 'rebellion' in some ad for bread ffs.

Just for the record: I am not in the least offended by the ad, but by the use of the 'short skirt-overknee socks combo' as a short cut for 'young woman'.
Whether she is 15 or 16 or 20 in RL doesn't come in to it IMO.
And as I said it's not very rebellious anyway as most schoolgirls I see passing our house every day dress exactly like that.

cumfy Tue 13-Nov-12 14:19:15

<Proffers Kingsmill biscuit>

YouAreAllOld Sat 17-Nov-12 14:58:15

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

cumfy Sat 17-Nov-12 22:37:57

Really ? I thought that's what my biscuit said. grin

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