to think if they are taking MY child benefit away the letter should come to ME?

(130 Posts)
PanicMode Thu 08-Nov-12 08:13:11

I don't want to start another debate about the fact CB is going - it IS going to hurt us as we have four children, but we'll have to live without it!

However, I am so cross that although the CB comes directly to me, the letter has gone to my husband. AIBU to feel as though the Govt have turned 50 years of feminism on its head and turned me back into a chattel?!

Welovecouscous Thu 08-Nov-12 08:14:02

I thought that was weird too Panic - CB in my name, but letter went to DH

cogitosum Thu 08-Nov-12 08:16:57

Is he the higher earner? If so that'll be why as it's him paying it back through tax return I think.

if my first husband (gambler, abusive) had received that letter (and therefore found out about the exsistence of child benefit) he would have been very cross. With me.
Just reminding everyone that not all marriages are equal and rosy in the garden. (Happily my second one is)

KatAndKit Thu 08-Nov-12 08:23:46

Actually they aren't taking away your child benefit. You can carry on claiming it in your name, and have it paid into your bank account.

What they are going to do if you do that (and you should, because it keeps up your state pension rights if you are not working) is to take the money back off your husband through the tax system. This is why the letter has been sent to him, as his tax affairs are his business.

bitsofmeworkjustfine Thu 08-Nov-12 08:23:58

erm... shouldnt it have come in the kids names?

Since he is the one earning the money and causing you to lose benefit, i understand why it would go to him.

I think that they assume that you do actually speak to each other

KatAndKit Thu 08-Nov-12 08:26:05

And I'll repeat my point again about "losing the benefit"

Please keep claiming it if you are not working. Claiming CB means your NI contribution for that year is covered and therefore your state pension entitlement is kept up. You get until your youngest is 12 at the moment.

Bilbobagginstummy Thu 08-Nov-12 08:30:07

What KatAndKit says.

You still get your child benefit (unless you decide to stop claiming - don't know why anyone would), but he will be taxed so that the net family outcome is to have no (or less) extra money from the fact that you claim.

unclefluffy Thu 08-Nov-12 08:31:58

You can keep an open claim, and therefore keep your NI credits, without receiving any actual money. Receiving the money will mean that your DH has to fill in a tax return.

KatAndKit Thu 08-Nov-12 08:33:58

That is interesting unclefluffy I didn't know that. Unlikely we will be so rich in the next year that I will need to know it, but hey, it might come in handy, I can dream of having 60k.

Arithmeticulous Thu 08-Nov-12 08:38:02

So the letter comes to the higher earner, in this case the DH, although the DW is the one claiming CB: can he stop claiming on her behalf? Does anyone know?

unclefluffy Thu 08-Nov-12 08:39:20

Nope. The claimant has to stop the claim. You can do it on the phone and give your NI number as ID.

kittenspjs Thu 08-Nov-12 08:48:24

Hmm, but my DH knows my NI number. Both our NI numbers are on our Child tax credit letters. Although, to be fair, he doesn't sound much like me on the phone.

unclefluffy Thu 08-Nov-12 08:48:54

grin

unclefluffy Thu 08-Nov-12 08:50:15

The whole chattel thing is incredibly irritating, though, I agree. As it happens, we do share our financial information, and our finances, but it's hardly a given.

unclefluffy Thu 08-Nov-12 08:50:56

And what notactuallyme said.

Mrsjay Thu 08-Nov-12 08:51:29

Yes My letter was for MR jay I was really confused he was waffiling on the phone to them he has to do a online form but his income depends on overtime his basic is below the threshold all really confusing , sorry i ranted then blush

Mrsjay Thu 08-Nov-12 08:53:16

but he will be taxed so that the net family outcome is to have no (or less) extra money from the fact that you claim.

OH I SEE i understand now

SufferingLampreys Thu 08-Nov-12 08:57:33

Its all very dodgy isn't it

In some ways I'm glad we're still eligible because I don't think I could cope with working it all out (explaining it to dh) on top of tax credits chaos

BlingBubbles Thu 08-Nov-12 08:58:24

When did you ladies receive your letters, we have been waiting for ours and nothing has arrived yet.... The last thing I want is to continue receiving it in error and then get asked for it back!

Mrsjay Thu 08-Nov-12 09:01:26

Just yesterday Blingbubbles

We bank with Natwest and they've always been very good, addressing the letters to Mrs Stealth and Mr Stealth (it was my account before we made it joint first therefore I assume my name's first on the account). This has been going on for the best part of a decade and yet in the last few months letters have been coming addressed to DH only telling him that he'll be getting less frequent statements.
I'd love to know why they think on;y he needs to know this.

What happens in houses that have two people earning over the threshold - do they each repay half iyswim?

Mrsjay Thu 08-Nov-12 09:07:59

the Royal Bank of Scotland sent us a letter each to say they were only going to send out 3 monthly statements as well To save paper confused

TBH i am not sure how the whole thing works I do know if both are under the threshold then they wont be taxed as much or 'something'

oh you got one each? Apparently in our house only DH needs to know that

tripsaway Thu 08-Nov-12 09:20:05

It's fairly usual for DWP and HMRC to treat all claims as joint where the claimant is in a couple though. I agree it turns women into chattels, e.g. a lone parent will stop receiving means-tested benefits if she moves in with a man earning above the threshold. He's expected to fully support her and her children and any benefits like income support are removed. It's always been that way, but only now is it becoming raised as an issue because it's affecting higher earners rather than just people on means-tested benefits.

I don't agree that it turns women into chattels at all, for precisely the reason that KatandKit has said. They aren't taking away your cb. All they are doing is netting that income off against your dh's income and taxing him more to recover it back. Why would you need a letter about that? His tax - his affair.

ceeveebee Thu 08-Nov-12 09:46:59

Both DH and I earn over the threshold and I claim CB, but neither of us has received a letter (yet). Or maybe DH has but hasn't opened it which is a distinct possibilitiy. If the letter goes to DH instead of me I will be fuming

I claim the cb and earn over the threshold ceevee. The letter came to me.

FloatyFlo Thu 08-Nov-12 09:54:46

What's all this? Didn't know CB was changing. Please someone explain? smile

ByTheWay1 Thu 08-Nov-12 10:00:55

Anyone earning over the threshold at an address where child benefit is claimed will be getting a letter. If 2 people earn over £50k, the higher earner is taxed to recover the CB....

Oh and if one of you earns over £60K and you choose to STOP getting payments rather than do a self assessment tax return, NI credits are not affected - it says so on the Information page with the letter.

lisaro Thu 08-Nov-12 10:03:49

notactuallyme you couldn't really have held HMRC accountable for your ex 'finding out' about child benefit. It's well known, widely publicised and (until now) available to all.

legoboat Thu 08-Nov-12 10:09:23

I recieved a letter yesterday (I claim CB). I earn just (about £150) over the threshold and according to their calculator thing, I will have a tax charge of £6 for the period between Jan 2013 and end of April 2013, so a charge of c.£24 for the next financial year (surely the admin in them doing this is more than £24!). I do not want to have the hassle of filling in a tax return each year so next year, I plan to raise my pension contributions by 1% or drop my hours slightly to ensure I'm under the threshold. I'm not sure if the point of this was to encourage people to work less, but that's certainly what I'm going to do. So the net effect is that I'll pay less tax overall - so the govt lose out. Madness. Scrap it altogether and make a universal credit for those on low/no incomes or limit it to 2 children.

I may be wrong ByTheWay but isn't the point about NI addressed to the tax payer and therefore pretty irrelevant as they are clearly making enough NI contributions through their income? It is the non-worker who the NI point would be applicable to.

Floaty - if anyone in a household earns above a certain threshold then they will be taxed more to recover back the amount of the cb claimed by the household. The top threshold is £60k over which they recover it all but there's then a sliding scale for those earning between £50-60k.

PanicMode Thu 08-Nov-12 12:24:47

I suppose it annoys me so much because we were both earning above the threshold until relatively recently and I feel that now that I'm no longer going to be claiming (no point - tho I will keep the open claim to protect my NI credits) - I am now invisible to the state - and in tax terms seem to 'belong' to my husband. If we weren't married, would the letter have gone to him? Plus women fought long and hard to be treated separately by HMRC and we seem to have taken a regressive step.

And yes, technically it's HIS tax position, but it's OUR money (in this marriage at least).

EssexGurl Thu 08-Nov-12 13:35:03

SHRIIIEEEK - NatWest have just written to me about the change in statements. I'm first on the account and the only one to get a letter. Works both ways!

Well that's weird. At first I thought it was a feminist issue, now I think they just hate me grin

Although...his initial is further up the alphabet than mine? does the reverse apply to you?

and if that's the case I'll let them off...though given they obviously have the system already set up to send out our statements, I don't see the logic in changing it to send out a letter about our statements

ceeveebee Thu 08-Nov-12 15:59:50

Talking of sexist banks - I am the one in charge of all our finances and so I apply for things like mortgages. I put myself as the first named applicant on our Nationwide mortgage amd DH as second. And every single piece of paper that we get from them has his name first and my name second. And his name starts with a letter lower down the alphabet so its not that.

Seabird72 Thu 08-Nov-12 17:43:47

Only complaint about this situation is that families with one wage earner on £60,000 is considered wealthier than another family who can bring in £100,000 just under and keep their benefit because they're not wealthier than the family on £60,000 ??!!! It needs to be a total household income to be fair on everyone and if the Government wish to limit it to a set number of children then that also seems fair. I have felt like a non-person ever since getting married and giving up work to raise the kids. I'm not entitled to any benefits/free education orhelp in getting back to work even though I did pay taxes up until I had children - would have continued to work except couldn't afford the childcare and no matter how well you plan you don't realise how much raising a family is truly going to cost until you actually do it.

Bilbobagginstummy Thu 08-Nov-12 18:57:00

PanicMode - "If we weren't married, would the letter have gone to him?"

As I understand it (which isn't far), yes it would because it's based on his income not your (joint) marital status.

VirginiaDare Thu 08-Nov-12 19:00:32

What's all this? Didn't know CB was changing. Please someone explain?

Have you been living under a rock for like a year? I know all about the cb changes and I don't even live in the UK and have never got it. How can anyone not know by now?

And to those complaining

VirginiaDare Thu 08-Nov-12 19:01:27

about men getting letters about changes to their taxes, cop yourself on. Sure who else would they write to?

edam Thu 08-Nov-12 19:04:37

This is one of the more worrying effects of the child benefit changes - that it reduces the independence and status of women (who are usually the lower earner). In ye olden days, politicians wanted CB to go to the woman on the grounds she'd be more likely to spend it on the kids in those relationships where the man would piss all his wages away in the pub. I know that's not the average relationship, but public policy should always be careful to avoid damaging the most vulnerable - you have to take account of them and test all policies for their effect on the vulnerable. What might seem sensible at first glance often turns out to be disastrous for those least able to handle any ill-effects.

Given that one in four women will be a victim of domestic violence at some point in her life, and two women are killed by current or former partners every week, there are a hell of a lot of women who are going to lose some vital independence...

PanicMode Thu 08-Nov-12 19:38:53

Bilbobagginstummy - so if I was still earning over the threshold (as well as him) would we both have got letters?!

I am with edam on this - it absolutely is a "huge reduction in the independence and status of women".

VirginiaDare - I have no idea what "cop yourself on" means?! Perhaps I thought that as the recipient of CB, they may have had the courtesy of writing to me to say that they are withdrawing the benefit they pay to me because they believe there is a higher rate tax payer in the household earning over the threshold. But no, apparently not.

And yes, the anomaly of a household earning more jointly than a single earner and so keeping it is grossly unfair.

JeezyOrangePips Thu 08-Nov-12 19:47:05

I suspect it goes to the one that earns above the threshold. Nothing sexist in that.

catgirl1976 Thu 08-Nov-12 19:56:50

DH claims ours and I am the high earner so I got the letter.

I am the one who will have to fill in a self assesment if he continues to claim (which he will to protect his NI contriutions) and I am the one who will have to repay the CB from my tax. I am also the one who will get fined if I do not do these things.

It makes perfect sense for the letter to come to me. It isn't sexist. Whoever is responsible for paying for the CB (in my case me, in the OPs case her DH) gets the letter.

Because it realtes to their tax.

ceeveebee Thu 08-Nov-12 20:14:25

panic, they are not withdrawing your benefit. Your DH will simply pay more tax. You keep the benefit

PanicMode Thu 08-Nov-12 20:17:40

No, we don't 'keep the benefit'. Above £60k, the tax on the benefit is equal to the benefit so there's no point claiming (aside from NI reasons - although as I understand it, you can protect your NI credits without claiming and thus avoiding self assessment hell.).

ceeveebee Thu 08-Nov-12 20:27:37

But you personally keep it and your DH pays the tax. So it's your DH that is financially losing out hence why they write to him

hang on, am I right in thinking you have to continue to claim it and complete a self assessment tax return? That's crap.

So are't they going to have to put more staff on the helplines to cope with the influx of people who won't have a clue what they're doing??

PanicMode Thu 08-Nov-12 20:45:45

It's not my DH who is losing out - it's our household. As we have four children, it's worth almost £250 a month, which is about £5k before tax - a not inconsiderable amount. It's not 'his' money or 'my' money but 'our' money - and in fact in this case it goes straight into the children - clothes, books, shoes etc.

I'm obviously in the minority of women on here who think that it's now ok that the independence that women fought so hard for, in terms of their own tax affairs, has now been lost again.....

kinkyfuckery Thu 08-Nov-12 20:50:29

Jesus fucking Christ, talk about making mountains into molehills!

presumably you prefer to not be treated as an equal partner

catgirl1976 Thu 08-Nov-12 20:56:48

But.........if you consider the CB to be "household" income and not "your" money, why start a thread stating you consider it firmly to be "yours"? confused

They wrote to me about my tax affairs. They wrote to your DH about his.

Doesn't sound sexist to me. Just sensible.

lisaro I'm not holding them accountable, I'm stating a fact. The claim pack was given to me in hospital, I never mentioned it, he never really knew about it. That's all.

sweetkitty Thu 08-Nov-12 21:22:48

Panic mode - I feel the exact same, 4 DC nearly £250 a month, 5K loss before tax, given that DH hasn't had a pay rise in 2 years, not likely to get one this year either, we will feel it too.

The whole almost 100K family income thing v 60K single income thing really annoys me plus all the self employed people who can just "hide" earnings and still get it on way above 60K.

NewRowSees Thu 08-Nov-12 21:22:58

Maybe yours is in the post? We both got one in my house, only DP got his a day before me. The CB payments currently go into my account, so I was initially a bit confused, but seems like all is well.

ceeveebee Thu 08-Nov-12 21:47:50

Exactly catgirl.
OP, which is it - your money or household money?

DH recieved his today. He doesn't understand (and neither do I)how legally that if I have claimed a benefit without his agreement or signature and only I have the power to cancel the benefit, he is taxed for it? He cannot control my finances, but my actions control his?

FourthTimeAround Thu 08-Nov-12 22:33:54

sweetkitty

I'm with you on this one. It's sh*t on stilts, it really is. What makes me laugh is the government bangs on about people living off the state and then punishes working people by increasing their tax, so disincentivising middle earners from working

FourthTimeAround Thu 08-Nov-12 22:35:00

Another good point! Think I'd better go and open that flipping brown envelope!

KatAndKit Thu 08-Nov-12 22:52:10

onelittleclara I agree with you about that. the problem with this benefit reform is that is totally erodes the principle of a couple's tax affairs being separate.

PanicMode Fri 09-Nov-12 06:03:34

Onelittleclara bangs the nail on the head.

I claim the benefit but I choose to put it straight into the household pot. I don't see that as being particularly relevant for the purposes of my rant. I am just very angry at how cack handedly this very unfair withdrawal of CB is happening and especially as the Govt made a promise not to touch it before the last election. If I thought it was going to save money I'd be more forgiving but I suspect it's going to cost far more to take it away than will be saved.

I am obviously BU/irrational though considering the responses!

3bunnies Fri 09-Nov-12 07:04:21

So are the letters coming in the brown envelopes? dh doesn't believe in opening post as most of his is junk, I deal with the finances . Not had one yet. Dh is due an increment in jan, which might put him over but depends on pension etc coming out. If it is just a few pounds over we would probably increase his pension / he'll take a week's parental leave so don't have the hassle of tax return, but how will we know this until the end of the tax year? If we are over likely to be a few pounds rather than a few thousand so easier on us and probably HMRC to reduce income than faff with forms etc. Never had to do a tax return and would rather not have the hassle for a few pounds. Different if he gets a pay rise, but not likely on the NHS.

3bunnies Fri 09-Nov-12 08:09:43

Managed to get dh's pay slip, looks as if after pension we are about 5000 under, so no brown envelopes yet!

JakeBullet Fri 09-Nov-12 08:16:14

Apologies if this had already been asked but how do they know who lives with who if you are not married for example?
Surely they can't know that Mr Jones lives with Miss Smith and they have 3 children together and as he earns £51k then Miss Smith loses all her CB.
Or can they only be sure about married couples?
Am I asking a really stupid question?

KatAndKit Fri 09-Nov-12 08:17:32

I had a baby this year and although the child benefit is claimed in my name it did ask me for my partners details including NI number on the application form. Presumably not telling the truth about this would be benefit fraud.

CarolynKnappShappey Fri 09-Nov-12 08:24:36

It is up to you to tell them Jake - but if you don't, and they find out (not too tricky since they have your addresses) then you'll get fined.

But they presumably do know, as the envelopes are coming out!
I don't understand about the self assessment stuff, will every PAYE person also have to do one now if they have to have the CB element taken back?

suchnonsense Fri 09-Nov-12 08:29:02

So, in our house I'm the higher earner and also I'm the one who claims CB, but only DH got the letter. How does that make sense?? Are they assuming that the "man of the house" must be the higher earner? Makes no practical difference as it all goes into one pot, but I'm a bit confused by the logic of this. Ironically, DH rarely opens his post so I'll end up sorting it out anyway.

Yes, that makes me angry. Why have they sent it to your DH?

ByTheWay1 Fri 09-Nov-12 08:34:37

Everyone who earns over £50k at an address where child benefit is claimed will receive the letter.

So if your childless lodger/flatmate earns over £50k and you claim CB they will get a letter even though unrelated to you/your child... they would do nothing as indicated in the letter - If later it is found that the lodger "lives" with you not merely resides there, they would be done for fraud.

ah thanks BTW
such's case makes no sense though!

and do they then have to do all the SA tax return stuff? Are they expected to know that this is necessary? Isn't it a huge pain?

suchnonsense Fri 09-Nov-12 08:39:16

No idea. He didn't even know we claimed CB.
On a separate point (which someone has made), it seems inherently wrong that I can choose to take an action (I.e continue to claim) which will impact DH's tax affairs.

I think someone else already made the point that couples are NOT financially independant at the lower end of the scale. Income support/JSA/student bursaries (grants in the old days), all of these assess the joint income even if only one person claims.

The only people who got the illusion of being financially independant were those earning a decent living. And now many of us get to be in the same boat as those other people. (Well, we don't yet, but that kind of pay rise is a vague possibility one day in the far future and a pleasant day dream in the mean time.)

MamaGeekChic Fri 09-Nov-12 08:57:29

I don't think it can be said that the letting going to OPs husband is sexist or a feminist issue unless the same process does not apply when the opposite is the case, but it does. I am the high earner (feimale) my DP is a SAHD, he claims the CB to protect his pension, I go the letter because it's me who will pay it back through additional tax. My tax affairs= letter addressed to me. We have afterall been taxed on an individual basis in this country for many years, this shouldn't be a surprise.

MamaGeekChic Fri 09-Nov-12 08:57:51

*female

VirginiaDare Fri 09-Nov-12 08:59:45

I'm obviously in the minority of women on here who think that it's now ok that the independence that women fought so hard for, in terms of their own tax affairs, has now been lost again.....

But its not your tax affairs is it? If you earned over 50k you would have got a letter. Obviously your dh does, so he has got a letter about how it will affect his taxes

What bit about that is hard to understand?

Iggly Fri 09-Nov-12 09:02:28

I earn the most in our house so let's see if I get the letter. I also claim CB.

However, my salary goes up so it's over the £50k in January. So will I get a letter then or will it be up to me to tell HMRC?

MamaGeekChic Fri 09-Nov-12 09:06:53

suchnonsense does your OH also earn around or over 50k even though you are the higher earner?

But how would that make a difference? Aparently the letter goes to the higher earning of the two

AnAirOfHopeForSnow Fri 09-Nov-12 09:14:54

wow im confused.

So if one person works and earns £12k pa and the other nothing do they still get cb and ni contradutions or do they have to do a sa form? Or are they not affected?

I believe you'll only have to do the form if you are losing it/part of it. But that is going to be a huge admin burden in itself

MamaGeekChic Fri 09-Nov-12 09:16:52

My understanding was it went to anyone in a household claiming CB earning over the threshold therefore suchnonsense would be likely to recieve another for her. Happy to be told I'm wrong if I am though.

AnAirOfHopeForSnow Fri 09-Nov-12 09:17:10

What if you have savings of a million and dont work but claim cb?

3bunnies Fri 09-Nov-12 09:21:45

Iggy as I understand it it is only when it goes over 50000 after pension, childcare vouchers etc are deducted from your salary, so it is the net taxable pay. If you are close to the limits it might be worth you paying more into pension/dropping hours/ taking a week's unpaid leave etc if possible. That way you delay the time when you have to face all the hassle of tax returns etc.

MamaGeekChic Fri 09-Nov-12 09:23:21

I thince it's taxable income rather than earnings so if interest on the savings was over the threshold they couldn't claim or would have to pay it back. Very good point though.

Iggly Fri 09-Nov-12 09:23:55

Ok thanks. DH did earn over £50k in the year gross but has gone down recently. I'm finding it confusing and I'm a bloody accountant!

MamaGeekChic Fri 09-Nov-12 09:24:27

*thince? wtf!! I meant 'think' obviously

KenDoddsDadsDog Fri 09-Nov-12 09:25:00

I earn more than DH, we are both over threshold but it still came to HIM.

Iggly Fri 09-Nov-12 09:26:36

And I'm planning to take unpaid leave later so it'll all work out thankfully!

AnAirOfHopeForSnow Fri 09-Nov-12 09:37:42

but how would they know you have savings?

Bramshott Fri 09-Nov-12 09:38:11

shock Ken - that's pretty shocking!

MamaGeekChic Fri 09-Nov-12 09:42:29

HMRC tax interest at source

suchnonsense Fri 09-Nov-12 09:58:59

Sorry - missed a bit as am at work.
In answer to questions, and similar to Ken yes, we both earn over the threshold. I am the higher earner, I claim the CB, I HAVEN'T received a letter, but DH has. This led to an extraordinary conversation with my FIL who is staying with us at the moment, who couldn't wrap his head around the fact that a wife could earn more than her husband, but that's a whole other thread...

I guess it's possible that my letter has been lost in the post.

However, even for those households with SAHMs claiming CB, I'd have thought that as a matter of courtesy it would be a good idea to let these claimants know what's going on.

catgirl1976 Fri 09-Nov-12 10:08:49

The letters should be going to anyone who earns over £50k in a household where CB is claimed

If you don't earn over £50k you won't be getting a letter because your tax is not affected.

Where people are saying they both earn over £50k yet only the DH has the letter I can only assume they have written to one person before the other and the letter for the other party will arrive

Otherwise they have royally cocked up somewhere........

KatAndKit Fri 09-Nov-12 10:26:26

Perhaps if you earn over 50k and you claim CB there is a different letter. Perhaps they send one to the non-cb claimant as they would need to declare if they live with a cb claimant? Where as if you are receiving the benefit and are a higher earner, they already know that.

The whole thing is going to be a massive shambles and will cost more to administer than they will save.

KenDoddsDadsDog Fri 09-Nov-12 10:31:23

Yeah there may be two letters. But I'm going to wait until the deadline and not let DH do the link til it arrives. Fuckers (for the shambles)

nightowlmostly Fri 09-Nov-12 11:40:40

I have a question, one of the reasons a SAHP will continue to claim is because it protects their NI contributions. I think this is to do with pensions, but if anyone can clarify that I'd be grateful.

Our situation is that I earn above the threshold, but it varies year on year. My DH will be working part time. Should he claim it still, or will his work, earning about 8K per year, be enough to cover his NI contribution? Also, because some years I may earn less, I guess I should change it to his name and let him claim, just in case I earn less some years.

It all sounds very complicated! Guaranteed this won't be saving any money, with all this admin. Stupid.

3bunnies Fri 09-Nov-12 11:57:03

I guess they are going to turn round in a few years and announce that the only solution is universal credit, combine tax credit and cb, parents who want to claim will do a joint form, those who don't can tick a box for NI contributions and get benefit on sliding scale depending on joint income and number of children. All this other messing around is just making it all so complicated on both sides.

3bunnies Fri 09-Nov-12 11:59:16

Of course after childcare costs are deducted so joint income/ lone parent families not adversely affected.

ihategeorgeosborne Fri 09-Nov-12 12:06:10

Yes 3bunnies, I think that's where they're going with this. In a couple of years they'll announce that they tried to remove child benefit from the 'rich', but that it didn't work as well as they'd hoped (no surprise to the rest of us obviously). This is just their token gesture to say 'look, we're removing benefits from the better off'. Clearly it won't work, due to all the complications everyone's pointed out. Then they will scrap it completely or limit it to numbers of children or as you say, combine it with universal credit. They should not be doing this as a political point scoring exercise, particularly if the money saved is negligible. It is a waste of time and resources in my opinion, and just makes them look incompetent.

3bunnies Fri 09-Nov-12 12:41:06

Originally they ruled out means testing cb because it would be 'too intrusive', but in reality now there must be a narrowing band of us who are not in some ways means tested, either for family tax credit, benefits or child benefit, and a lot of annomolies.

PanicMode Fri 09-Nov-12 16:32:38

So I phoned the CB people - they "can't tell you what happens to your NI credits if you stop claiming, you need to phone them". Who bets that NI people send me straight back to the CB people.

What a total and utter joke.

ihategeorgeosborne Fri 09-Nov-12 16:45:19

I can well believe it PanicMode, they are incompetent at the best of times. My dh had an issue with them the other day on the phone. The man he was talking to insisted that the cuts were based on gross income. Dh explained that it was net adjusted income and told him that he was factually incorrect and insisted on speaking to a manager. The manager confirmed that my dh was correct and so dh asked to make a formal complaint regarding mis-information. The person in question hung up!!! We all need to log every incident and error that occurs and write to our MPs. If they receive enough letters they will have to take notice.

PanicMode Fri 09-Nov-12 17:00:58

That is terrible IHGO.....yes, will log and complain.

If I ever get through to someone who has a clue that is......

katedan Fri 09-Nov-12 17:04:16

I was cross the letter was addressed to DH but as it is him that is the highertaxpayerit makes sense just another nail in the coffin of my non e
excistence.

Just a note on what is being said on here and other threads about losing NI contributions if you do not claim your CB. This is incorrect apart from not receiving the money everything else will continue you will still be on the system to receive NI contributions against your pensionand your children willstillreceive their NI number automatically whenthey turn 16. You stillhave to registerif you have any new children but for those of us who lose it from now you will not be effected in terms of your pension. HMRC have assured of this. If your dh is not self employed or complete a tax return he will needto do this ifyou continue to claim which can be a hassle and if you get it wrong can lead to fines. You are better off not claiming for it.

BlueyDragon Fri 09-Nov-12 17:12:41

I thought it was an HMRC cock up when DH got the letter, and that mine would be along in a minute...

But no, I'm the higher earner, I'm the CB claimant, surnames are the same, his employer comes after mine alphabetically, moon isn't in the fifth house, they managed to lose my details in the cock up a couple of years ago and still no letter. Maybe I can keep mine grin?

They can't organise the proverbial in a brewery, can they?

sweetkitty Fri 09-Nov-12 17:15:20

I tried to do the online "how much will I still get thing" it asks for Gift Aid donations I.e. how much you are planning to donate 2013-14, how do I know how many of our friends are going to run marathons, a 1000 maybe grin

CarolynKnappShappey Fri 09-Nov-12 17:18:56

2 HRT payers in our house - DH earns more. I come first in the alphabet and claim the CHB - I've got the letter, he hasn't.

CarolynKnappShappey Fri 09-Nov-12 17:20:01

I want to know what happens if high earning DP moves out though - when can you start reclaiming CHB?

JackThePumpkinKing Fri 09-Nov-12 17:36:09

If you earn just over £50k do you lose it all? I thought it was staggered?

At least this might mean DP sorting his pension out, hopefully it'll take him just under the threshold.

KenDoddsDadsDog Fri 09-Nov-12 18:12:45

DH has a smaller arse, maybe that's why he got the letter

3bunnies Fri 09-Nov-12 19:08:11

Jack If you are just over the 50k you don't lose it all, I think I heard that it is an extra 1 percent tax. The reason people are keen to reduce it is that firstly it may be better that you benefit than the tax man, so you might want to have childcare vouchers, more pension or an unpaid holiday than start to lose money to the government - probably more relevant for those at the lower end of the spectrum. Secondly if you are over the 50k and continue to claim then the higher earner(s) will have to complete a tax return, which if they were PAYE they would previously not have had to tackle.

PanicMode Fri 09-Nov-12 19:13:23

katedan Can you explain how that works? I thought that was the case but the person I spoke to didn't know how do do that for me.

JackThePumpkinKing Fri 09-Nov-12 19:50:32

Tax return? Seriously? Argh!

Glittertwins Fri 09-Nov-12 19:53:00

No letter has arrived here yet. Should we be contacting them or wait for it to appear?

JackThePumpkinKing Fri 09-Nov-12 21:59:21

I hope this thread is wrong. I hope that DP won't have to do a fucking tax return. I hope that he's just under. Ugh.

I'd support this (maybe) if it was a) fair and b) not going to cost more to administer than it saves.

Fucking fucking twatting tory wankers. Arrrrghhh <rage>

3bunnies Fri 09-Nov-12 23:17:03

According to all that I've read it will be a tax return from 50000 to 60000; and they are hoping that most people will think like you Jack and decide they would rather not claim than have the hassle of a tax return. In my previous post it was slightly wrong, over the threshold you pay 1 percent of cb for every 100 pounds earnt. So for a family with 3 children and a net taxable pay of 52000 you would pay 25pounds in every 100 pounds back. If however the 'high' earner took 1 weeks unpaid leave, they would lose 1000 pounds from their net taxable pay, but after tax and paying back 250 pounds cb, that would equate to a cost to the family of just 335pounds. I reckon when we do go over I'm going to be seeing more of dh!

JackThePumpkinKing Fri 09-Nov-12 23:57:05

No, I will keep exclaiming! Am angry that doing so means DP has to do a fucking tax return!

JackThePumpkinKing Fri 09-Nov-12 23:58:02

Um. *claiming. Though I will also keep exclaiming!

3bunnies Sat 10-Nov-12 00:32:05

Oh yes, I think most people will keep claiming, but they are hoping that people won't bother. I think for us we will probably avoid in the lower 50s through salary sacrifice, maybe claim in the mid 50s and if that were hassle and dh ever got that far, not bother if we were around the 58-59k as at that stage you are only getting about 300-500 pounds and might not be worth the hassle, especially as pay would be higher then anyway, and at that stage I will be working more with all the dc in school.

JackThePumpkinKing Sat 10-Nov-12 00:39:25

It's all bullshit.

I live near Cameron. WHen should I start camping/campaigning outside his house.

Ugghh... I am so fucking angry about alll of this. Like I said earlier, it would be reasonable if it saved money. There is no way on this earth that this is a good idea.

Fuck you, Ham Face Cameron. You utter TOOL.

ByTheWay1 Sat 10-Nov-12 08:14:15

If you have simple tax affairs - PAYE and a bit of savings say - it really is VERY, VERY simple to do a tax return.. the government is hoping people will just drop the CB through feeling overwhelmed, but I have done them in the past and really had no trouble at all...

Elegantlywasted Sat 10-Nov-12 08:31:27

Filled in form online to stop CB, was sent an email back saying thanks and we'll try and stop paying it from January. I've given them two months notice and they can't even be sure that they can stop it in their timescales that they have set! Shall be annoyed if have to complete SA due to them not being able to met their deadlines.

princessnumber2 Sat 10-Nov-12 08:35:30

We haven't had a letter yet. I claim cb. DH will have to pay it all back as he's over 60k. I think it's unfair that they don't assess household income but whatever.

My question is, do they take the total amount of cb off high earner's gross income? And doesn't this mean the household is better off claiming as the household isn't paying tax on that bit of income?

CarolynKnappShappey Sat 10-Nov-12 08:44:26

Agree with BTW, doing an online tax assessment is absolutely worthwhile if you're in the mid-50s - it's about an hour's work, tops, including registering and finding where you put the papers, so well worth it for a few hundred quid.
And if there is any uncertainty at all about the higher earner's job security, or health, then also best to carry on claiming and repaying in arrears rather than try and get back in the system later.

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