To be loving the Liz Jone and India Knight Feud?

(753 Posts)
Vagabond Tue 30-Oct-12 20:45:47

In which, middle class India Knight called la Liz everything under the sun on her nasty twitter diatribe of nonsense.

Schadenfreude, I know.

WelshMaenad Tue 30-Oct-12 21:02:10

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WelshMaenad Tue 30-Oct-12 21:02:30

Bear PIT, obvs.

LadyEvilBeagle Tue 30-Oct-12 21:02:40

Two hugely successful columnists resorting to teenage bitching.
If I was their respective editors I'd get rid of both, but that's how to sell papers these days.
And this is the naice middle class side of the market.

LadyEvilBeagle Tue 30-Oct-12 21:05:35

But vapid old crones Welsh confused. I agree with the vapid but I'm a similar age to them, and am most definitely not an old crone.

Get rid? That'd clear the way for The Brick.

MrsCampbellBlack Tue 30-Oct-12 21:08:09

Oh dear India. Attacking Liz Jones just feels so wrong as she so clearly has so many issues.

WelshMaenad Tue 30-Oct-12 21:08:17

My mum's 60 and not cronely. Croneliness is a state of being, not a number.

MamaMary Tue 30-Oct-12 21:11:05

India Knight has really gone down in my estimation now.

And she changed her name shock

Bessie123 Tue 30-Oct-12 21:13:50

Heh. It's funny. They are both mad. Glad I don't know them irl though

its like the two megaliths of entitlement clashing..

PoppyAmex Tue 30-Oct-12 21:16:13

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LadyEvilBeagle Tue 30-Oct-12 21:30:59

The Brick was on This Morning talking about being beautiful again with a self admitted plain Jane.
Though if the Plain Jane had dyed her hair blonde and had dressed differently they could have been sisters.
They both had the same weird mouth.
Oh, and fair point Welsh grin

litdog Tue 30-Oct-12 21:52:40

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MrsCampbellBlack Tue 30-Oct-12 22:01:26

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Devora Tue 30-Oct-12 22:05:44

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mrspumpkinpatch Tue 30-Oct-12 22:06:50

Ahh I knew nothing about this. This has made my night!

Vagabond Tue 30-Oct-12 22:08:08

OH, Please will someone tell me what India Knight's real name is? That would give me an absurd amount of pleasure.

Vagabond Tue 30-Oct-12 22:09:32

I would ask her on Twitter but she doesn't listen to the "dwiddle people".

janelikesjam Tue 30-Oct-12 22:19:37

Yes it does sound like 15 yr old catfight.

But I would still defend mosts journalists most of the time to say even unpopular things. They may miss the mark sometimes but often honest and entertaining, and occasionally insightful.

I laughed a little at Liz's barb about a "Cambridge graduate who married young, worked part-time and lives in a £3 million house". Bit catty though, yeah.

LadyEvilBeagle Tue 30-Oct-12 22:21:21

I read India Knight's first book because I quite liked her columns.
It was a witty 'romantic' novel where the heroine was a slightly larger than average but gorgeous woman (I wonder who that was based on) who won the famous actor after interviewing him and giving him headlice.
It really was the most utter shite, and I have detested her ever since.
Did anybody else read this pile of garbage and can remind me what the name of the book was?

L1zLem0n Tue 30-Oct-12 22:23:22

What are they fighting about !?did she write does my bum look big in this? or am i thinking of arabella weir?

BupcakesAndHaunting Tue 30-Oct-12 22:26:21

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MrsCampbellBlack Tue 30-Oct-12 22:27:38

My life on a plate.

L1zLem0n Tue 30-Oct-12 22:29:21

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BupcakesAndHaunting Tue 30-Oct-12 22:32:17

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mrspumpkinpatch Tue 30-Oct-12 22:32:44

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LadyEvilBeagle Tue 30-Oct-12 22:33:33

grin Bupcakes, I was being polite.
Yes that was the book MrsCB. I recommend you don't read it.
And I may be wrong here so don't quote me as I may have the wrong journalist, but I'm pretty sure she wrote a very nasty column about women being far too old to be mothers at 40, and then proceeded to have a child at the same age.

AllYoursBaBOOshkAHH Tue 30-Oct-12 22:35:40

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PoppyAmex Tue 30-Oct-12 22:36:09

Bupcakes that's really well spotted! Uncanny.

Hassled Tue 30-Oct-12 22:38:32

I can't believe I've just read a Liz Jones article and left it with a degree of empathy for Liz Jones shock. It's messing with my head.

I used to love India Knight once upon a time. She wrote a witty, insightful series of columns somewhere, I believe. I got bored when she started on the "I've lost weight! No need to ask me how - I'll tell you!" stuff.

BupcakesAndHaunting Tue 30-Oct-12 22:38:40

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AllYoursBaBOOshkAHH Tue 30-Oct-12 22:41:00

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TheCrackFox Tue 30-Oct-12 22:41:21

Does anyone actually know what India's real name is?

I do think Liz has a bit of a cheek complaining about India slagging her off as Liz has made a huge amount of money slagging off huge swathes of society. Can't have it both ways, love.

BupcakesAndHaunting Tue 30-Oct-12 22:45:08

I bet her real life name was Pamela. She looks like a Pamela.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Tue 30-Oct-12 22:45:43

Liz that was from her diet book. I quite liked "the shops" by IK but "Comfort and Joy" wasn't much fun.

Yes arabella weir wrote "does my bum look big in this?"

LittleBearPad Tue 30-Oct-12 22:45:43

IK drove me round the bend when she had her eyes lasered. It was as if no one else had ever done it. Every tweet ended #eyes. Gah

BupcakesAndHaunting Tue 30-Oct-12 22:46:49

Who remembers when she had an epic benny when after she appeared in an interiors magazine, someone revealed that she's had her interiors "done" by a professional?

AllYoursBaBOOshkAHH Tue 30-Oct-12 22:47:11

I think her real name is Skegness Day.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Tue 30-Oct-12 22:48:12

She's been using Knight as her surname since aged13 - stepfather's name.

Vagabond Tue 30-Oct-12 22:48:20

the interiors mag! gah! I remember....

PoppyAmex Tue 30-Oct-12 22:51:43

Doctrine I think LJ meant she changed her first name.

I think she's a Shirley.

TheCrackFox Tue 30-Oct-12 22:53:38

I actually bought IK's The Thrift Book from Poundland - no where in said book does she say if you are really skint shop in Lidls and Primark. She actually states that we should spend £200 on a dress as we will get far more wear out if it. I didnt even spend that on my wedding dress.

LadyEvilBeagle Tue 30-Oct-12 22:54:36

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Levantine Tue 30-Oct-12 22:55:20

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AitchTwoOhOneTwo Tue 30-Oct-12 22:55:54

oooh, i have nothing to say but i want this in my active convos.

Hassled Tue 30-Oct-12 22:57:21

LadyBeagle - here

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Tue 30-Oct-12 22:58:24

Leb I think she did lose weight, don't know if it stayed off.

Some of the ghostwritten? recipes turn up on the low carb threads.

cocolepew Tue 30-Oct-12 22:58:47

She looks like a Jean to me.

cocolepew Tue 30-Oct-12 23:00:48

I believe she was the only person, in the world, ever to have lost weight.

mrspumpkinpatch Tue 30-Oct-12 23:03:46

Her name is DEFINITELY Marjorie.

It's practically monogrammed onto her face.

TheCrackFox Tue 30-Oct-12 23:04:48

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TheCrackFox Tue 30-Oct-12 23:05:46

I think she is a Cynthia.

Valpollicella Tue 30-Oct-12 23:08:05

From what I know of her and her Twatter musings my only kind of respect was when she was on Something Special with Mr Tumble with her lovely DD

scottishmummy Tue 30-Oct-12 23:10:41

two opinionated has beens slugging it out
well they need to raise profile somehow
what next Nekkid wrestling in I'm a has been get me out of here

Vagabond Tue 30-Oct-12 23:12:16

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MooncupGoddess Tue 30-Oct-12 23:18:25

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scottishmummy Tue 30-Oct-12 23:19:53

two argumentative hasbeens
how very obvious and unbecoming
probably ploy to generate interest

UnrequitedSkink Tue 30-Oct-12 23:29:29

I was going to suggest that you were all being utter bitches, but then I remembered...good God, she deserves it.

UnrequitedSkink Tue 30-Oct-12 23:30:37

But what I don't GET, right, is why Lauren Laverne, who I think is rather lovely, is such bessie mates with India on Twitter? I think she's secretly terrified of her.

out2lunch Tue 30-Oct-12 23:41:29

just ugh


Valpollicella Tue 30-Oct-12 23:58:27

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L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 00:07:09

I like LJ. I think it's such a bandwagon to jump on. she's made good points about extreme thinness of models. I know she writes about clothes, ponies and her xh for the DM but what she writes doesn't make me want to slam the paper down and scream. Plenty of other DM contributors have that effect on me.

NotMostPeople Wed 31-Oct-12 00:12:44

Her name was Giselle rather nicer than India if you ask me. Google is your friend here ladies.

Her diet book is great, I haven't followed her much so don't know her that we'll but I do wish women wouldn't bitch about other women's size/looks (looks at some of you pointedly).

Snazzyspookyandscary Wed 31-Oct-12 00:17:31

India's reading the thread, folks: look at this tweet about it. So now the defensiveness about her original name. She really can't take any kind of criticism, which is surely odd for someone working in the cuthroat world of journalism. But presumably criticism from the 'little people' is unbearable.

cocolepew Wed 31-Oct-12 00:22:08

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WelshMaenad Wed 31-Oct-12 00:55:22

It's times like this that I'm glad I don't understand, or want to understand, Twitter. I might be tempted to get drawn in, but thankfully my life is so much bigger than hers, even without a £3million house.

L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 01:15:53

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L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 01:17:13

Gisele way too like gism for comfort.

Vagabond Wed 31-Oct-12 01:24:38

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L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 01:30:29

So who is Michaela Sheen? Why does IK tell her to go and cuddle her cat? I know LJ loves animals (caring for them, not eating them like IK).

Vagabond Wed 31-Oct-12 01:52:31

Sheen is a nobody who had the temerity to mess with India whats-her-name over this pathetic squabble. She apparently wears bad hats!

Vagabond Wed 31-Oct-12 01:54:49

Thinks....lightbulb.....that India Knight thinks that anyone who posits an opinion other than her own is masquerading as Liz Jones. Hence the cat ref. Go figure.

L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 01:56:18

unfortunately michaela sheen has gone to bed! what a shame.

MrsCampbellBlack Wed 31-Oct-12 06:39:08

India used to be a mn'er I think. I do rather like her writing but seems to be the role of female columnists to out bitch each other which is just sad and dull.

Agree though commenting on her looks and weight is not on really

gimmecakeandcandy Wed 31-Oct-12 07:00:47

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Brycie Wed 31-Oct-12 07:06:00

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MarshaBrady Wed 31-Oct-12 07:07:42

What grim tweets.

HogInABog Wed 31-Oct-12 07:43:35

Just had a nosey at her twitter account and, in a discussion about MN, she is unhappy about adult women who don't use their real names to bitch about people they don't know.

So, bitching is ok if you use your real name and only bitch about people you know.

Got it.

Also, her friend thinks some of us have childish handles which are embarrassing. So if you could all sort that out that'd be ace.

litdog Wed 31-Oct-12 08:25:52

Her comment about IP addresses is absolutely typical of her bullying manner.

Obviously I am now terrified and have sent my husband to Homebase for bundles of barbed wire to encircle the house - suggest you all do the same.

frumpet Wed 31-Oct-12 10:24:44

Has anyone else noticed that the contact liz email address has disappeared from her bit in the MOS magazine ? It used to be there and now it has gone.

gordyslovesheep Wed 31-Oct-12 10:30:36

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carabos Wed 31-Oct-12 10:47:26

I saw the tweet about IP addresses. < looks around and whispers> Do you think she thinks that an IP address is like a RL address and you can go round there to frighten people? <fears for IK's mental health>.

I started following her on twitter because I quite liked her ST articles. I stay with her on Twitter because I think she's like the little girl from the Exorcist - veers wildly from appearing to normal to head swivelling, bile spewing terror in a heartbeat.

BTW Matt Rudd, who I also like in the ST is a bit the same. He's not quite as scary as IK, but he does have a habit of calling people cunts some of her tendencies.

I have a childish name <proud>

I am so conflicted. I loved India.

MaureenLove Wed 31-Oct-12 10:53:47

Lol at a bitchy thread calling people bitches

mrsshackleton Wed 31-Oct-12 10:55:20

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MaureenLove Wed 31-Oct-12 10:56:09

None of us know these people. You can't decide you hate them you loons.

I can so too decide I hate people I don't know, course I can. In fact, I only hate people I don't know - I find it far too extreme an emotion for people I meet in 3d. Mostly rl people have something that makes you step back from full blown hatred, I've never come close to the loathing I feel for Peter Andre or Katie Hopkins.

MaureenLove Wed 31-Oct-12 10:59:38

I have never met either. Therefore cannot loathe.
* gavel ^

That's your limitation then, I am so sad for you <sincere>
I loathe without boundaries, me.

Strawhatpirate Wed 31-Oct-12 11:05:57

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Nancy66 Wed 31-Oct-12 11:07:11

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OatyBeatie Wed 31-Oct-12 11:14:16

I've never read a word of India Knight and I certainly wouldn't follow her on Twitter, but this thread is pretty abusive and also possibly libelous. Not very nice.

I guess that people like her and Liz Jones are get space in the papers largely because their ridiculousness generates online chatter which brings clicks and revenue. So threads like this are a win. Best to ignore them, even though they make that so hard.

gordyslovesheep Wed 31-Oct-12 11:17:09

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I read a v sad and fabulous book by Ruth Picardie called 'Before I say Goodbye' which features emails between Ruth and friends/family as she is dying. First time I ever heard India Knight's name was when I read her emails to Ruth, and have loved her ever since.

Haven't read Liz Jones spat yet but do follow IK on twitter and I must have missed her bullying other people??? And I do think that the tweets about her name by Michaela someone were a bit odd and unhinged.

MaureenLove Wed 31-Oct-12 11:24:26

i dont know who oaty is but i love her posts

mrsshackleton Wed 31-Oct-12 11:30:10

I know IK ANd Lj so ner, ner, ner.

Believe it or not, LJ is nicer in person.

OatyBeatie Wed 31-Oct-12 11:30:20

Thank you Maureen that's very kind. <gallops around the thread on high horse>

EldritchCleavage Wed 31-Oct-12 11:31:17

I don't understand Twitter spats at all (or as DH calls them, Twatter spits). Why bother? What is the point? Is it just a case of attention at all costs, no such thing as bad publicity? Do you keep your newspaper column by generating lots of controversial tweets (in which case, IK and LJ have probably cooked up this feud over a few drinks and are now very happy with it)?

Mind boggle.

Oh, but the diet book is actually good.

MaureenLove Wed 31-Oct-12 11:32:20

Oaty - are you in dressage gear?

L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 11:35:14

I liked Michaela's tweets. She wasn't being too nasty, she was setting the record straight (about this thread) and then after IK made the jibe about cuddling the cat she said something about nepotism, which is a fair jibe I'd say.

OatyBeatie Wed 31-Oct-12 11:37:59

I like to wear dressage gear with a Lady Godiva slant, so I am completely naked except for a top hat. Tally ho.

YesAnastasia Wed 31-Oct-12 11:38:07

I'm sure it wasn't IK's intention to have those who previously hated LJ's writing actually warm to her, thus is the unpredictability of social media.

I enjoy reading India Knight & have since I read The Dirty Bits - For Girls for my degree. And I tried the diet smile

I used to be quite appalled by LJ's column about her marriage & it's subsequent breakdown when I was young. I was amazed it was real, it should have been anonymous at least. I try to avoid her writing these days.

I echo those who have expressed distaste at those insulting their looks/size. Now that's bullying.

motherinferior Wed 31-Oct-12 11:42:33

It's not actually technically bullying because they're not (AFAIK - looks sternly round) on this thread to be bullied.

I wonder do helpful people email the threads to the person being slagged, or are they on MN so much they stumble across them?

MaureenLove Wed 31-Oct-12 11:45:44

india knight is degree level reading? shit no

YesAnastasia Wed 31-Oct-12 11:45:46

It's public, just as twitter is.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 31-Oct-12 11:46:08

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YY, what is this Dirty Bits? Is it peer reviewed? On the reading list?

motherinferior Wed 31-Oct-12 11:47:30

Yes, I know it's public.I am fully aware of the openness of the internet. All I'm saying is that it isn't technically bullying. Bullying is when people gang up on an individual who is there to be bullied. It might not be kind to slag off someone who is not around, it might be gossip or slander or suchlike, but it isn't bullying.

YesAnastasia Wed 31-Oct-12 11:48:00

Ha. No, it wasn't study material.

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Wed 31-Oct-12 11:49:21

I've never really had an opinion one way or the other about India knight, but wow those tweets about Liz Jones were vile. Calling her a cunt and saying she wanks off her cat??! No one normal, sane and nice would ever tweet something like that, I'm surprised she's happy to do things like that so publicly and be judged on them

motherinferior Wed 31-Oct-12 11:52:49

And what Aitch said.

I do think it is rather different to make your life entirely public, including your own looks, and then be a target for comment than if, for instance, someone said 'oi, MI, I read your latest feature on heart disease and boy oh boy you are a hideous gnome, aren't you'. (Although obviously you may be thinking this, I fully admit.)

I agree MI (not with the gnome bit obvs). There has to be a Fair Game level of Sleb status, surely? Samantha Brick, Peter Andre, Bruce Forsyth.
it's almost a public service in some cases.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 31-Oct-12 11:57:37

i don't get the piety, MI, when the discussion is actually about one power-crazed collumnist calling another equally-crazed but demonstrably vulnerable collumnist a cat-wanking cunt. complete loss of privileges, imo.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 31-Oct-12 11:58:38

(am also amazed that she is so happy to call people who disagree with her 'mentals'. is it satirical?)

motherinferior Wed 31-Oct-12 12:00:35

LJ wrote about having her breasts removed.

Admittedly I have only had to meet LJ for work but it was not the cosiest experience of my life.

AnnieMated Wed 31-Oct-12 12:00:42

Why, why, why did India feel the need to insult Liz so publicly and aggressively? She's actually - despite what many seem to think here - a fabulous journalist IMO, but I have no idea why she would think tweeting in this way would achieve anything other than to make her look like the vilest, nastiest type of bully there is. Picking on others worse off than you to make yourself feel or look better is never pretty, whatever the circs...

YesAnastasia Wed 31-Oct-12 12:01:17

I wasn't insinuating that you don't understand the internet MI. I was just comparing it to twitter. If it's bullying there, it's bullying here.

Nancy66 Wed 31-Oct-12 12:02:48

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AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 31-Oct-12 12:05:37

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L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 12:08:47

I felt for liz, I don't see that her column was all that different from blogging about a relationship breakdown. Her marriage broke up at the same time as my relationship did. Although, I was broke, with no career and two kids and no pot to piss in! but I still felt for her. Because the relationship before the one with my kids' dad, that breakup hit me harder and I bored all my friends and family and colleagues for years! I'd buy liz a virgin mary and we could talk shitty exes, clothes and animals!

EldritchCleavage Wed 31-Oct-12 12:10:50

It was such a weird over-reaction, too. OK, so IK thinks LJ, her ex-friend, made a catty comment about her life. Childish to do that, and a bit childish to care. But IK's reaction is to go public calling LJ a cunt who wanks off her cat. That is such a bizarre, nasty, over-the-top response. It doesn't make any sense to me except as a manifestation of psychological crisis or cynical pandering to a lowest common denominator feuding for kicks Twitter audience.

MamaMary Wed 31-Oct-12 12:11:39

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Nanny0gg Wed 31-Oct-12 12:12:58

mrsshackleton I don't have a problem with LJ, though sometimes she seems to contradict herself.
She at least knows she has ishoos.

L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 12:13:11

omg!! did she say that!? :0

Friendships evolve, and ebb and flow or wax and wane or whtaever the saying is. Tbh I've had a couple of friends stop calling me over the years and I've done the same. So that's life. I wouldn't get so huffy about being de-friended, in real life ykwim.

TheCrackFox Wed 31-Oct-12 12:14:01

I do think LJ over reacted as well as she devoted her entire MoS column to it.

L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 12:16:11

Yes MamaMary. re models. Totally agree. I have read LJ nodding thinking 'you say it, keep on saying it'.

I don't know if she's any more nuts than the rest of us.... I think I see a bit of her in Sinead O'Connor! ie, all the things sinead says, I feel, yes, I thought that too, I'll admit it, those thoughts have passed through my head. But I can rein in my private thoughts just enough to avoid being judged by people I know.

tbf TheCrackFox, she devotes the whole column to rambling nonsense from her life every week.

India is presumably doing the Ricky Gervais thing with 'mentals'. Did she answer a question about her use of 'retarded' in the webchat?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 31-Oct-12 12:18:24

meh. knight has nearly 80,000 followers. LJ doesn't tweet, she probably just wanted to set the record straight to 'her' people. and remember, she's not backwards about saying she's a bit neurotic.

Nancy66 Wed 31-Oct-12 12:18:39

LJ dishes it out enough - and has to expect to get it back but IK''s comments are just horrible.

I'm pretty sure that Jeremy Langmead and LJ are still good friends (India's first husband) maybe that's what the issue is?

L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 12:19:14

yeh, LJ's column is always her thoughts though. I think her column was all about setting the record straight. ie, they didn't 'know each other through work' as IK said. They were friends!

L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 12:20:30

Nancy66, ah, that could be it...... LJ and JL So, who is LJ's bf, I know there were threads about it ages ago. It must be common knowledge by now.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 31-Oct-12 12:21:19

an interesting piece about comedians using their twitter fans to flame arguments although i want it on the record that Simon Pegg admitted he'd been a prick the next day and apologised. grin

mignonette Wed 31-Oct-12 12:22:36

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fridgepants Wed 31-Oct-12 12:27:22

"Wouldn't have the nerve to pose like that at her size."

I'm not a fattist in the slightest - you can't be when you have a crippling houmous addiction and a prescription for Seroquel - and think you can pose as you like at any size you damn well like. But I thought her diet was suspect. I spend a LOT of time looking at diet plans/pills/remedies in my day job, and took a look as I was interested in changing my eating habits and forcing myself to cook more. Any diet which requires one to purchase £70 worth of supplements to get you through seems somewhat suspect to me.

I think The Thrift Book was good for what it was - it wasn't aimed at people who have to count pennies for the meter, but people of affluent status who now find themselves having to cut corners. I'm fortunate enough to be able to spend wisely rather than cheaply (Primark for me is a false economy, especially if you aren't 5ft 5 and built like a teenage ballerina) I haven't always been so and have grown up with bouts of thinking Farmfoods was costly, and I still took some good tips from it. I find myself wanting to like her, whilst understanding that she'd probably consider me common as muck. (But I work in da meeja so I'm used to that.)

However, her The Shops book was teeth-grindingly middle-class. I'd love to live in a world where a dinosaur egg was an appropriate present for a young relative (my GOD would I have loved this) but not as someone who refers to [[ 'the food of shame'.]]

mrsshackleton Wed 31-Oct-12 12:29:34

No, Nancy JL and LJ are no longer on speakers either. IIRC he waded in to the tweetfight and had a dig at LJ too (which was aaaages ago, so not sure why everyone's talking about it today)

fridgepants Wed 31-Oct-12 12:31:42

"india knight is degree level reading? shit no"

I wrote an essay about Morrissey for mine. Depends how much your tutors like you.

mignonette Wed 31-Oct-12 12:31:49

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Nancy66 Wed 31-Oct-12 12:32:07

ahhh ok, thanks Mrs S

fridgepants Wed 31-Oct-12 12:38:24

It's hard not to retaliate on Twitter, mind. A former acquaintance started a bitchy blog which was basically an exercise in muck-raking and bullying. This understandably pissed off a bunch of people, one of whom took the time to set up a counter-site exposing how much of an utter twunt said acquaintance is (and he is - one of the very very few people I bear a grudge against 4 LYFE). Acquaintance responded by naming me, full name, as the perpetrator (I wasn't), and then proceeded to wank himself into a virtual fury by suggesting I'd spent most of my adult life sectioned (utter bollocks), that I was a mad Irish woman (I'm not, never even been there) and finally threatening to upload compromising photographs of me to Twitter (a friend saw this and screenshotted it for me).

DP had to virtually sit on my hands to stop me going radge on him, particularly as, while I'm a nobody as far as Twitter is concerned, chances are a pissed off client might google my name and infer that I'm too mentally unwell to be able to tell them what to do. Same with some good friends of mine. If you're both in the media, and this stuff has more of a chance of going public, it's even harder to be zen and decide to publically ignore.

L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 12:42:17

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poozlepants Wed 31-Oct-12 12:45:06

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scottishmummy Wed 31-Oct-12 12:47:10

really it's funny two Cantankerous slugging it out
but ultimately both benefit column inches,internet blether
more online hits more tweets.more notoriety

L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 12:47:54

@ fridgepants, re fattism! You left the I out of what you quoted there! and i stand by that! I wouldn't have the nerve to pose like that. Put down the hummous! Shall I tell you the best diet pill IN THE WORLD? come here chicken I'm going to tell you this for free grin. All bran. There I said it. Before every meal, eat a modest but not stingy portion of all bran. if you're hungry between meals have a bowl of all bran. I went from size 12 to 10 waist 30' to waist 28' on my secret diet pills! people tune out when i try to tel them though! you can buy these secret diet pills in the cereal aisle and they cost about €2.65 for a small box.

motherinferior Wed 31-Oct-12 12:50:36

And this, my friends, is why I never mention anything to do with my work on Twitter and tweet - to my select following of about three people, obviously - pithy little observations on the day, my (unnamed) children, and the day-to-day decay of a lefty feminist who is facing 50 head-on...

Londonista1975 Wed 31-Oct-12 12:55:35

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L1zLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 12:59:39

SEriously!? IK is tracking IP addresses!! you're kidding! what's she going to do with that information?

Tell the police that people she was vile to knocked her down a peg!?

Good luck to her tracking IP addresses! i'll give her a headstart! I'm in Ireland. ;-p so I can say what I really think ha ha.

EldritchCleavage Wed 31-Oct-12 13:05:58

Tracking might be legal, but the use of them might not be. Anyone can use them to identify a person they want to sue (e.g. for libel), but publicise them (like on Twitter, for revenge reasons) and you could just as easily find yourself on the wrong end of a privacy action.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 31-Oct-12 13:24:27

must say, the first time IK hit my radar was in the Ruth Picardie excerpts in the paper, as mentioned below. she did seem like a good egg in those. and she's written well about her wee girl, iirc. twitter seems to have sent her right round the twist.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 31-Oct-12 13:27:41

mind you, i remember YONKS ago when i first joined twitter, i foolishly 'joined' in a chat between CM (who i vaguely am acquainted with) and tracey thorne (who DOES seem a good sort) and both replied to me and IK at the same time, in a lolsy sort of a way. IK took me off her tweets when she responded, which i thought was just really rude. but i now see it's the way of the twitterati, which is why i am so rarely on it. grin

YesAnastasia Wed 31-Oct-12 13:29:14

Aitch "but that's utterly bogus, anastasia. commenting on the behaviour of a bully is not bullying. that's the worst kind of circular justification for doing nothing, ever."

I know. The bullying to which I refer is the personal attacks on both of their looks & their sizes.

I wonder if anyone has considered that IK thought she was being funny with the cat wanking comment?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 31-Oct-12 13:34:08

i know you know... it's just that commenting on the weight and size of a woman who is pimping herself as a diet expert is not bullying. nor is commenting on the looks of a woman who makes her living by chronicling her own self-loathing and repeated surgeries.

Bessie123 Wed 31-Oct-12 13:38:03

I do think 'cat-wanking cunt' is a pretty good insult (but i am not ver grown up). I shall spend probably about the next 10 years trying to find an occasion to use it. Maybe I should join twitter...

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 31-Oct-12 13:40:59

arf. she didn't actually put it that pithily, afaia. wink

OatyBeatie Wed 31-Oct-12 13:42:03

Twitter seems to produce a v different effect on slebs from the one it has on most users. For ordinary twitterers, because they only tend to follow those they like and to be followed by those that like them, Twitter is an oasis of general niceness and friendly endorsement. But I suppose if you are a sleb you do get a lot of stuff thrown at you from the hostiles, so the experience takes on a much more defensive character. And since you are also getting a MASSIVE ego inflation from the hordes of followers who do like you, the defensiveness blends with narcissism and righteousness. A bit of a heady brew.

motherinferior Wed 31-Oct-12 13:45:38
OatyBeatie Wed 31-Oct-12 13:47:26

I'm sure that one of the me me me personality columnists (Dowling? Ronson? some such) wrote a funny piece once about accidentally wanking their cat to orgasm. Who was it? Surely not Dowling? He would be a dog wanker if anything.

squoosh Wed 31-Oct-12 13:55:30

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TheCrackFox Wed 31-Oct-12 14:03:51

I find that difficult to believe. Sounds like an urban myth.

LCandey Wed 31-Oct-12 14:07:58

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AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 31-Oct-12 14:18:57

but it IS acceptable to make them on twitter, IK has deemed it so. and i am much less bothered about some mn nomark yakking about someone beign a cunt than i am about someone with near enough 80,000 followers saying it about someone who is clearly bonkers as conkers, while lying about the quality of their previous friendship.

(not that i'm that bothered about either, tbh. i am just distracting self from boring real life. grin)

LCandey Wed 31-Oct-12 14:23:14

If it was acceptable then she wouldn't be getting the backlash in this thread..

I take your point though, she does have a broader audience!

The minefield of twitter.

EldritchCleavage Wed 31-Oct-12 14:23:37

What is urban myth? Cat wanking, or IK dating Eric Joyce?

PoppyAmex Wed 31-Oct-12 14:28:53

You will ALL be in trouble when Marjorie IK spots this <nods sagely>

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 31-Oct-12 14:29:46

i think it's the audience that swings it, though. although if you called me a cunt on here i wouldn't like it, because that would feel personal even if we don't know each other.

what's so weird, as Eldridge identified, is the lack of proportion of response, coupled with the fact that you're basically encouraging 80,000 people to gang up. it's crazy. i didn't know she'd broken up with O'Hagan, perhaps it's a personal crisis?

MorrisZapp Wed 31-Oct-12 14:29:49

Oh 'My Life on a Plate'. Makes 'Does My Bum..' look like The Grapes of Wrath.

She is single and gets a lodger. Then says 'don't worry, this isn't going to be one of those books where the heroine meets the love of her life under her own roof' or similar. Then that's exactly what happens.

As for the bigging up of her gay-friendly cred, it was nauseating. 'Fat bird conquers Madame Jojos and has le tout camp London dying to party with her' - barf.

TheCrackFox Wed 31-Oct-12 14:40:34

Dating Eric Joyce = urban myth, no one in their right minds would go there.

Cat wanking = plausible under the right set of circumstances (although, TBF I am struggling to think what the right set of circumstances are).

EldritchCleavage Wed 31-Oct-12 14:41:32

Ah, thank you CrackFox, most edifying.

Nancy66 Wed 31-Oct-12 14:42:37

dog wanking is another matter Debbie?

MooncupGoddess Wed 31-Oct-12 14:43:00

I read about the Eric Joyce/IK amour in Private Eye a few months (year?) ago, for what it's worth (probably not very much!).

TheCrackFox Wed 31-Oct-12 14:44:52

Wow, so it might actually be true. Mind boggles.

WelshMaenad Wed 31-Oct-12 14:45:09

Someone wanked a pig once, didn't they? dredges memory

Nancy66 Wed 31-Oct-12 14:48:14

Rebecca loos did the pig

anniewoo Wed 31-Oct-12 14:51:31

I got India Knight mixed up with India Hicks years ago when reading her column. blush
Not a fan of Liz Jones but those tweets were nasty. India Knight has gone down in my estimation.
India Knight's book Comfort and Joy was really disappointing

fridgepants Wed 31-Oct-12 14:52:03

The thing that pissed me off about MLOAP - ~I got it out of the library when I was a student - is that, from memory, she spends the book complaining about being large, then when her husband (?) suggests she goes to Evans/is a size 16 she has a go at him. You can't be hideously fat if you still fit into Topshop's size range.

The only other thing I remember, ten years on, were the character's complaints about not having spent over £100 on a dress in ages. As we hadn't then learned to say, lol.

fridgepants Wed 31-Oct-12 14:53:09

NB I also read Notting Hell, but that was in full knowledge that it would annoy me. I have low blood pressure, sometimes it's necessary to wind oneself up.

TeentheBean Wed 31-Oct-12 14:54:08

Oh by the 'eck, Liz Jones is always pouring out some bile in the Daily Fail paper, I try to avoid any of her spoutings. Having glanced over this latest spat, India Knight doesn't seem to be a very nice lady, insult to a lady to even call her one. I had the misfortune to borrow her book Comfort and Joy from the library, kept reading in the hope it would get better, sadly it didn't.

BupcakesAndHaunting Wed 31-Oct-12 15:27:03

Who is Michaela Sheen? I want to buy her a large drink.

LizLem0n Wed 31-Oct-12 15:37:36

I'[d be a bit if I were her though! she must be brave.

stclemens Wed 31-Oct-12 15:52:43

Comfort and Joy was a load of rubbish - instant remainder territory. Truly truly awful, she deserves never to get another book contract again.

hackmum Wed 31-Oct-12 17:21:41

Liz Jones is terribly self-absorbed and unlikeable, but it also seems obvious (to me at any rate) that she has some kind of mental disorder, so I do feel sorry for her, and don't think she deserves to have that kind of abuse hurled at her.

Have never been a fan of India Knight. I used to read her Observer column, and then her Sunday Times column, until I'd had enough. I was quite shocked on a couple of occasions to read articles where she'd said it was OK to smoke and drink in pregnancy - after all, our mothers did, and it didn't do their children any harm (an assertion quickly disproved if you google stats on the decline in neonatal mortality). She once said that if you smoked, it supposedly made your babies smaller, but she'd smoked and both her babies (this was before the third) had been over 8lb, so it was just as well she had smoked, otherwise they'd have been enormous. She also said that she didn't breastfeed as it made her feel like an animal.

This wouldn't have been quite so bad if she hadn't written a number of other columns attacking mothers who give their children junk food, because they were irresponsible.

I feel quite strongly that newspapers should refuse to publish articles stating things like "it's fine to smoke during pregnancy", which is so clearly untrue - as CP Scott famously said, comment is free, but facts are sacred.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 31-Oct-12 17:27:42

Oh dear.

I don't spout bitchy crap like these two even though i have my mn cloak of anonymity. Very sad, very childish.

TheBigJessie Wed 31-Oct-12 18:22:35

<From beneath tinfoik hat>

It's a conspiracy, to keep the urban myth of Liz Jones' existence going. If another well-known journalist is nasty to her on twitter, it buoys it all up.

I see an MNer has already claimed to have met LJ in this thread. That MNer is obviously a plant! No, not a herbaceous plant. She's a (fifth) columnist working in our midst!

<Wonders whether this post is funny to readers without a tinfoil hat>

In event of boredom occasioned by this post, add tinfoil flavouring to taste.

Londonista1975 Wed 31-Oct-12 19:38:52

God, yes, Comfort and Joy was a pile of crap. Most of the Amazon reviews deservedly slated it.

She was saying on Twitter earlier that she's doing a web chat here soon, which will be interesting.

Better shut up now as who knows what could happen next time I'm sauntering around Primrose Hill...

cornflowers Wed 31-Oct-12 20:08:43

IK's Wiki entry is a hoot, she's clearly composed it herself. I particularly enjoyed the biographical detail stressing presumably tenuous links to 'notable' historical figures.
"India Knight was born to Sabiha Rumani Malik (of a family related to Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, one of the foremost leaders of the Indian freedom struggle and a renowned scholar, and poet). India’s mother was 17 years old at the time of her birth and married to Michel Aertsens 20 years her senior (and the son of First World War hero Gaston Aertsens and Marie-Louise Lacroix of the family of Belgian statesman Henri Jaspar). "

cocolepew Wed 31-Oct-12 20:13:39

A web chat? Blimey she's brave.

LucyGoose Wed 31-Oct-12 20:19:51

Whoever can find out IK's real name get a star and an opened bag of halloween candy :P

squoosh Wed 31-Oct-12 20:23:09

She's obviously quick to anger, not sure if a live MN webchat is the best idea!

cocolepew Wed 31-Oct-12 20:29:02

Lucy, her name is Giselle. Like the supermodel.

She's done a webchat, maybe two. One last Christmasish.

ThePathanKhansWitch Wed 31-Oct-12 20:36:12

Didn,t IK use horrible disabilist language in one of her books? Although I understand she does great work around the syndrome her child has.

Horrible tweets though and I'm no fan of moaning Minnie Liz.

Londonista1975 Wed 31-Oct-12 20:36:25

Oh and Sali Hughes, if you're reading this, disagreeing with Miss India does not make us trolls, got that?

BupcakesAndHaunting Wed 31-Oct-12 20:42:38

"Lucy, her name is Giselle. Like the supermodel."

She has many things in common with Gisele the supermodel.

They both have arms and legs. And hair. And some eyes. And errrr....

Gisele and India can both do walking. And are ladies.
Erm......they can prolly both name all the days of the week.
Am stuck for more.

cocolepew Wed 31-Oct-12 20:48:46

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TheCrackFox Wed 31-Oct-12 20:51:17

I once read on Mumsnet (so it must be true) that the name Giselle, in France, is like being called Doreen.

BupcakesAndHaunting Wed 31-Oct-12 20:53:07

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BupcakesAndHaunting Wed 31-Oct-12 20:54:12

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squoosh Wed 31-Oct-12 20:56:43

The word troll is bandied around far too freely these days. Bloody cheek of random internet plebs disagreeing with IK. Disagreeing with someone is just so offensive. hmm

Seriously, anyone who makes people feel sorry for Liz Jones (!) needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.

fridgepants Wed 31-Oct-12 20:56:48

I tend to have a thick skin where discussion of mental illness is concerned, but the quotes about bipolar disorder really upset me. I spent my probationary period at work terrified that my employers would find out I had it, because the attitude she has is depressingly common. As it was they were and are great about it, but when you have a job that's highly dependent on judgement and consistency it doesn't help when a national newspaper columnist describes a disorder that has come close to killing me in the past as akin to a coke binge. I believe you have to take an awful lot of coke before voices start to suggest you jump in front of trains on your way home, but then I've never taken it. It might be great.

Plus, the medication one is prescribed for serious mental health conditions is astonishingly difficult to deal with day to day.

fridgepants Wed 31-Oct-12 21:01:24

Mind you, I think Liz Jones needs someone to talk to extensively, not a newspaper column.

BupcakesAndHaunting Wed 31-Oct-12 21:03:50

I just want to take Liz out for a very big glass of wine or soya froth or whatever it is she drinks. I know she is a PITA but I bet underneath it all she is quite sweet, really. Whereas IK is just a megacunt. With thigh chaffe.

fridgepants Wed 31-Oct-12 21:06:36

Yeah, trolls are people who are on the wind-up. If I were a troll, I'd start an AIBU thread asking whether all breastfeeding mothers are no better than cows, or something like that. The pedant in me does get quite annoyed with people conflating 'trolling' with 'having a strong, if unpleasantly expressed, opinion'

Londonista1975 Wed 31-Oct-12 21:06:37

Agree, squoosh. It's bloody insulting. I don't know why so many people seemingly want to keep in with India.

fridgepants Wed 31-Oct-12 21:07:21

Bups, I believe icing sugar is the thing for chub rub.

Good Lord at icing sugar on upper thigh chafe. Give you a muff like a Danish Pastry, that would.

litdog Wed 31-Oct-12 21:11:43

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I like her books <lone voice>.

cocolepew Wed 31-Oct-12 21:18:00

Litdog, are you Liz? wink

cocolepew Wed 31-Oct-12 21:19:27

Surely it is icing sugar that gives you the thigh chafe to start with?

Ooo is Litdog Liz?

Litdog, what were you thinking with those shredded jodhpurs?

fridgepants Wed 31-Oct-12 21:28:01

'Danish pastry' is, I imagine, Sandi Toksvig's euphemism for her no-no area.

BupcakesAndHaunting Wed 31-Oct-12 21:32:59

It's like Fat Knacker full circle. Ingest sugar liberally ----> sprinkle liberally on areas of flab caused by liberally ingested sugar. sad

litdog Wed 31-Oct-12 21:34:53

If only I were Liz! I would be a lot thinner and a lot richer, and my husband would no longer be a hard-working XXX but a lovely pop star.

PS I used to work on the same publication as Liz for a while and she was very rude to me, but still I am on her side after IK got so rude.

Wel,l I'm not sure your DH would be a rock star. More of a will o' the wisp if you ask me.

cocolepew Wed 31-Oct-12 21:36:13

Dig the dirt litdog, nobody will tell.

BupcakesAndHaunting Wed 31-Oct-12 21:36:55

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ROYAL icing sugar? Goodness me, a bit of post-sneeze leakage and you'll have half a fruit cake solidifying in your Womanly Area.

BupcakesAndHaunting Wed 31-Oct-12 21:51:09

I imagine IK would quite like that. She could scratch her itchy chaffage and come out with all cake down her fingernails. #sneakysnack

fridgepants Wed 31-Oct-12 21:51:43

I have to say, I've never had the chub-rub issue despite Seroquel basically being Prader-Willi Syndrome in pill form. I do, however, being a woman of height and 'fleshy' thighs, have a right old pain getting tights to stay where I put them.

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt Wed 31-Oct-12 21:51:43

Oh I don't know.

Perhaps I have missed the crux of the thread, but if someone on a mumsnet thread had called liz j a 'cat-wanking cunt' most of us would have exploded with laughter, surely.

The whole argument is so media, dahling, that I can't get worked up about it. It's like a whole load of 'she turned around and said and then I turned around and said' yet played out over twitter as opposed to over the back garden fence. Who gives a shit about all these daft women?

BupcakesAndHaunting Wed 31-Oct-12 21:57:13

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TheBigJessie Wed 31-Oct-12 22:03:02

Is this thread about her appearance or her behaviour? I can't quite tell.

cocolepew Wed 31-Oct-12 22:04:06

Both. We don't like to discriminate.

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt Wed 31-Oct-12 22:04:52

Fuck off bups, stop being an atrocious cunt.

See! All cunty affection on mumsnet.

TheBigJessie Wed 31-Oct-12 22:05:01

And who is Gorg, and what does his son look like? Is it a star trek reference?


<Is trying to be cool and down with the kids>

squoosh Wed 31-Oct-12 22:05:03

Why can't 'celebs' see that involving themselves in such public spats makes them look like complete fools. Twitter is just like the curtain in the Wizard of Oz, it shows celebrities to be just like the rest of us. Sometimes worse than us.

BupcakesAndHaunting Wed 31-Oct-12 22:05:08

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BupcakesAndHaunting Wed 31-Oct-12 22:09:05

Why don't YOU fuck off GetOrf (if that is even your real name!) coming on here and being all sensible.

Just remember, I invented atrocious cunt for YOU, babes xxx

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt Wed 31-Oct-12 22:09:36

Oh I have never done that kelly osbourne's jaw, Peter Andre's philtrum and kerry Katona's shrew eyes excepted

BupcakesAndHaunting Wed 31-Oct-12 22:12:30

Just remember, you almost broke Mumsnet with the Time Team Osbourne plough jaw post. BROKE IT.

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt Wed 31-Oct-12 22:16:51

And mnhq deleted that thread.

Sad day.

I also am sick of tosspots in the daily mail etc wailing about 'internet trolls' when they mean spiteful twats like me and bups, and NOT actual trolls who are wind up merchants and emotional vampires.

Hassled Wed 31-Oct-12 22:24:10

grin. This has cheered me right up.

I'm more than happy to wave a badly written placard forlornly in any campaign to differentiate between internet trolls and spiteful twats. Let me know if I can help grin.

Aethra Wed 31-Oct-12 22:52:27

God I used to like IK but I almost prefer LJ now, which is messing with my mind. What a pair of nutjobs!

cartblanche Wed 31-Oct-12 23:15:47

What a pity IK isn't at the Blogfest. Do you think any of you that are going might have a word with LJ? I wonder if she's looking in on this thread in preparation.

FreddieMercurysFrightfulBolero Thu 01-Nov-12 07:56:26

IK is an enormus tit. I used to like her, but she seems to have lost touch. I no longer even read her demented ramblings in the ST to snort in derision. I'd rather read Jeremy Clarkson, now that is saying something!

mignonette Thu 01-Nov-12 08:09:26

I/GK is a woman of great substance and intellect- She wrote a whole book about where she shops and what she buys.

I can imagine just how intellectually rigorous the research must have been- truly a mental challenge like no other.

I flicked through it in the Home Farm Trust bookstore yesterday as there are 2 copies of it plus that other piece of literary fiction she wrote - that's meta for you, a book about shopping unsold in a charity shop.

gettingeasier Thu 01-Nov-12 08:43:46

Not a very nice thread really , agree with those who think maybe lay off the she's so fat comments particularly as she isnt.

hackmum Thu 01-Nov-12 08:52:37

Julie Burchill has waded in on the side of Liz Jones too: "Novelist and former columnist for The Sunday Times, Julie Burchill defended Liz Jones today saying: ‘I’ve always loathed Knight - she’s completely unapologetic about the nepotism which is the sole reason she has succeeded. If she had any humility, she would go and get a non-media-related job. But she knows she’d fall flat on her face if she did - so she doesn’t. At least Liz is self-made.’"

Mind you, JB and IK had a big fight about six years ago so it's not entirely surprising.

OatyBeatie Thu 01-Nov-12 08:56:53

Blimey. It seems like the whole of columnistland has turned into a deletable thread on MN. The papers could save a lot of money by letting them just post straight onto here.

Then they could be deleted.

mignonette Thu 01-Nov-12 08:57:39

India Knight is not fit to lick Julie Burchill's.....errrr, boots.....

Oh NICE mental image mignonette grin. Yeuch.

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt Thu 01-Nov-12 10:06:26

I like Julie Burchill. If only for the affinity of someone from the west country who as a teen used to have a poster of the tube map on the wall and dream of moving to London.

All these media types seems a bit unreal don't they. I love and adore Caitlin Moran and I was sitting near her on a train a few weeks back (and that bloke from Green Wing strangely) and she was very loud and 'look at me'.

Mind you what else arew they going to be like. They do seem to live in a strange little bubble though.

I did think one of IK's books was funny (apart from very odd comments about xchildren in it) - there was a whole bit about films titles that sound like anal sex which made me roar - the Wind Jammers, Unlawful Entry, Deep Impact, the Bum Bandit etc.

And to be honest I have got a soft spot for lj - some of the articles she writes are very funny and, don't kill me, rather astute. Plus you have got to love her for dressing up as the queen and scootering in front of buck palace for the jubilee!

PoppyAmex Thu 01-Nov-12 10:39:34

It's so interesting how Twitter can be a double edge sword.

A lot of celebrities looked really pleasant until they were unleashed on Twitter without filter or the benefit of a sensible editor/PR person.

"Familiarity breeds contempt", ain't that the true

PoppyAmex Thu 01-Nov-12 10:40:04

true= truth sigh

squoosh Thu 01-Nov-12 10:41:27

Exactly Poppy, I bet loads of agents and PRs are biting their knuckles in frustration at their clients unguarded twitter diatribes.

It only takes one tweet for a carefully marketed image to disintegrate.

I love Caitlin Moran in print only, she makes me itch on the tellybox and I think in RL I'd just be hugely irritated. Same with India, it seems.

That's why I can never go to a MN meet up btw. Imagine if everyone one of you really boiled my piss in RL, after I adore you so very much on t'screen. Crushing.
Plus I know I'd irritate too grin

LizLem0n Thu 01-Nov-12 11:25:42

I met a load of people from another site on a night out. It was interesting because there was the equivalent to an online awkward pause when we got back on line grin and then I think I went back to my original picture of them. It was two years ago now and I might as well not have met them once because in my mind, they're how I first imagined them again.

BetsyBlingtastic Thu 01-Nov-12 11:40:34

I think Liz Jones is quite a talented journalist, a good writer, whether I always agree with her opinions or not.

And imo she doesn't appear to be malicious. There's a skill to expressing strong opinions without being nasty and I think she does it well others not so much

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 11:47:11

Liz Jones makes me worried. There is a car-crashy quality to her revelations which I have reluctantly realised isn't a construct - she hasn't, I think, set up a 'Liz Jones' cariacature, I think it's really 'her'.

It was quite scary to meet her.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 01-Nov-12 11:58:31

hmm... i am swithering. turns out that this is what IK responded to. it is pretty cunty.

’A newspaper columnist, writing last week about the fact that Celebrity Big Brother has failed to snare me for its new series, called me ‘self-contradictory. ... When you went to Cambridge, married young, work part-time and live in a £3&#8197;million house, you are so mightily secure that you feel it’s your right to run to fat and give up having sex with your husband.’

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 01-Nov-12 12:01:01
motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 12:06:10

Er...I thought that the no-sex bit was a bit errrr mutual?

Londonista1975 Thu 01-Nov-12 12:15:03

The Burchill/Knight email spat from 2006:

I've always liked Julie.

IfNotNowThenWhen Thu 01-Nov-12 12:18:10

I don't know why I am reading this thread, since I am only vaguely aware who any of these women are.
I agree with Get Orf. Lets ignore them, and de-follow them, or whatever you call it on Twatter.
Why can't all these ladies stop publicly slagging each other? Can't they just not like one another and avoid meeting, like what normal people do.
There are loads of people I don't like. I manage to stop myself trashing them publicly!

Cat wanking cunt is quite a good insult though.

<puts in file>

squoosh Thu 01-Nov-12 12:18:37

To: India Knight From: Julie Burchill: I wrote to the letters page, not YOU, you stalking cretin. Why dont you fuck off and turn yet another of your husbands gay?


Nancy66 Thu 01-Nov-12 12:19:25

ha ha....Julie's email's are brilliant.

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 12:22:44

Actually I agree with IK's original point. (And she does have Muslim family.)

discophile Thu 01-Nov-12 12:27:42

Could someone confirm to me that O'Hagan has left Knight? As every I'm too lazy to read the whole thread.

squoosh Thu 01-Nov-12 12:30:04

Confirmed. She is going out with Eric Joyce apparently.

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 12:30:28

Google is your friend here. A quick search will give you the answer.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 01-Nov-12 12:34:45

ah, so judging by the JB/IK exchange, IK has always been a bit chippy. while we MNers know how to respond to such emails with charming passive aggression, looks like IK prefers her aggression aggressive. that's an expensive education and mahoosive sense of entitlement for you.

i would pmsl to get an email like that from Julie B, it's not like she hasn't made a career out of ranting on the most flimsy of premises. (which is why i wuv her so).

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 12:36:48

I do rather remember JB saying, when she was going out with whichever woman it was (Charlotte Raven?) that there were very few 'cultural lesbians' around. Ooh, I thought, many of my mates will be surprised to realise that they are in fact illiterate thugs.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 01-Nov-12 12:36:53

tbf, we can all be right bitches when attacked, no?

Who is this O'Hagan?

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 12:39:14

Actually am now feeling spot of sympathetic kinship for old IK as she is clearly afflicted with Gorgeous Slender Indian Mother. Which I am myself, and it has not been easy <sobs fatly>

discophile Thu 01-Nov-12 12:42:41

Did they both turn? Bet you can't Google that! Well, just procrastinating really. Must cook some lunch, in my pink Primrose Hill home.

LizLem0n Thu 01-Nov-12 12:42:59

Aitch, that is a good point. I have spent twenty years honing my passive aggression so that the person I want to insult only realises they were in fact insulted 24 hours later. Just wouldn't have the cojones to be any less subtle than that.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 01-Nov-12 12:43:29

andrew 'o hagan, scottish writer and father of IK's dd. reportedly a nice fellow, although desperately unsexy in that student priest-y way. uses slightly too many words in his otherwise excellent books and articles grin it's a good piece, that, although on the savile thing so brace yourselves if there are any triggers for anyone.

discophile Thu 01-Nov-12 12:44:18

Andrew O'Hagan is novelist and father of IK's third child, a girl. I have to say I have read one of his books and thought it was almost unreadable. However, far be it from me to derail thread for bitching to literary criticism. That would not do.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 01-Nov-12 12:45:01

lol at us all flick-flacking gymnastically in our loyalties. they're all very naughty girls.

OatyBeatie Thu 01-Nov-12 12:46:22

They are all merging into one in my brain now.

TheBigJessie Thu 01-Nov-12 12:47:34

What's a cultural lesbian? Someone raised in a lesbian culture?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 01-Nov-12 12:47:43

re O'Hagan readability, he is very scotland and of his time. all oil-rainbowed puddles and tinseltown in the rain, however i think his instincts are great, journalistically-speaking.

OatyBeatie Thu 01-Nov-12 12:48:22

Lizindia Birchmoran, composite columnist, purveyor of nothing.

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 12:49:02

I gathered (it was a while ago now) that it meant lesbians who, you know, read/write books and go to the theatre. I imagine it came as quite a surprise to the lovely wimmin I know that this only applies to JB and, I suppose, Gertrude Stein...

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 12:49:35

O'Hagan is less irritating than Euan Ferguson <irrelevant>

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt Thu 01-Nov-12 12:59:16

I just absolutely roared at the Julie Birchill/India Knight email exchange. Thank you very much Londonista for linking to that.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 01-Nov-12 12:59:37

infinitely so

I see.
I do not see re cultural lesbian.

LizLem0n Thu 01-Nov-12 13:04:12

omg, jb hilarious!!! grin

TheBigJessie Thu 01-Nov-12 13:27:01

Then JB was being silly.

But on this tangent, I want to nominate Virginia Woolf, for Cultural Female then.

squoosh Thu 01-Nov-12 13:37:02

You can't move for cultural lesbians!

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 16:00:32

Have I said "North London Edgy Mummy Twitter Wank Circle" yet in this thread?

No, and I think it's worth repeating. Makes me think of self-conscious trendy knitting, chai lattes and slappable faces. <happy sigh>

fridgepants Thu 01-Nov-12 16:03:31

Wait - both her ex husbands are now gay? Everyone I fancied in secondary school turned out to be gay, but that;s a bit more impressive.

That Saville piece reminded me that I need to get around to reading his Personality. And I really want Julie 'Batshit' Bindel to get involved now...

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 16:03:36

I want to get that trending on Twitter. You'll hear the collective bullysniggers of Laverne/Knight/Dent/Moran from the top of Holloway Road.

fridgepants Thu 01-Nov-12 16:07:48

I think Liz Jones lives in Clerkenwell, right? That's dead near my office. I should keep an eye out. We once had Rihanna in the building opposite so maybe it's the new Miami.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 01-Nov-12 16:21:51

it certainly puts the whole thought of poor wee Lena Zavaroni singing 'ma, he's making eyes at me' on a totally different footing, doesn't it, fridgepants?

I think the Twatter has been angered. Lo! and there were many deletions upthread.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 01-Nov-12 16:34:19

HEY! i've had loads of deletions and i've only ever been totally fucking reasonable about everyfuckingthing. shock who's manning the desk today?

Hah. Therefore I AM HEAD GIRL and Aitch is demoted.

OatyBeatie Thu 01-Nov-12 16:36:12

Poor gordylovessheep was deleted for saying that I was on a high horse. Hopefully that was just a fat-finger event -- it didn't seem a deletable remark really and I wasn't offended.

But Gerrof is still an atrocious cunt grin
I like that the line in the sand is there

OatyBeatie Thu 01-Nov-12 16:37:24

If she'd said I was wanking a high horse that would have been different of course.

Hard to wank a high horse. Step ladder? Folding stool?
Would you like me to tell my picking-cornflakes-from-horses'-cocks anecdote? I share it regularly.
I could join Twatter just to share, and to get Buppers trending.

MardyBra Thu 01-Nov-12 16:39:41

Just come to this thread. More deletions than posts it seems. sorry to have missed it.

TheCrackFox Thu 01-Nov-12 16:43:01

You would need big hands to wank a horse. Probably easier to wank off a cat.

squoosh Thu 01-Nov-12 16:44:30

Ooooh one of my posts was deleted. Wonder what shocking and scandalous posting I made. Surely if it was that awful I'd remember it!

<racks brains>

Latara Thu 01-Nov-12 16:45:55

I couldnt be bothered to read all 12 pages so just read the OP and...

India Knight is that weird woman who slagged off people with depression & bipolar etc etc. Well she's a cow.

Liz Jones is neurotic & horrible to ordinary working people. Ummm...

Maybe they could get in a boxing ring for our entertainment??

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 16:48:34

What's with the deleting spree, MNHQ? Has IK been emailing you with veiled threats referring to IP addresses?

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 16:50:04

I didn't get deleted sad

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 16:52:02

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 16:52:44
cocolepew Thu 01-Nov-12 16:53:23

shock a deletions. Is it ok if we say shes a cat wanking cunt? That seems to be ok with her.

cocolepew Thu 01-Nov-12 16:54:49

Hahahahaha that's excellent!!

Latara Thu 01-Nov-12 16:55:31

Hehehehe smile love it, thanks to whoever did that!

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 16:55:40

I bet she's signed up to MN especially, just to report all of the mean posts about herself. The silly divvy.

squoosh Thu 01-Nov-12 16:55:49


Arithmeticulous Thu 01-Nov-12 16:56:15

"In her spare time, India enjoys eating children and being a massive internet bully. She excels at the latter." grin

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 16:57:33

"India Knight began to use her stepfather's surname at the age of thirteen. But don't you dare ask her about that"


Latara Thu 01-Nov-12 17:00:46

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

fridgepants Thu 01-Nov-12 17:02:54

un-MN hugs Latara, it's horrid. It took from my first doctor's appointment at 18 to a breakdown at 25 to be properly diagnosed, which is an awful lot of wasted time. Being posh and wealthy might have helped, though, temp jobs tend to fire you if you let them know you've started a new prescription and are feeling a bit ill.

Roaring at Wiki. How rude shock

CaptainHoratioWragge Thu 01-Nov-12 17:04:27

The best Wiki edit I have ever seen

Latara Thu 01-Nov-12 17:07:36

Thanks fridgepants it is shite, i'm about to lose my job now due to Bipolar etc & don't need to read hear or think about overprileged stupid women like IK.

Un-MN-hugs to you too.

PoppyAmex Thu 01-Nov-12 17:07:50

My first deletion ever! <preens>

No surprise, bullies dish it out but can't take it when someone retaliates. She is remarkably touchy for someone in the public eye, isn't she? Inferiority complex, me thinks.

Loving the Wiki entry, by the way.

BandersnatchCummerbund Thu 01-Nov-12 17:08:36

Never heard of this woman before, but if her newspaper columns are anything like her twitter posts then I'm not sure I'm missing much. Christ. Is the Times economising these days? I thought you had to have some semblance of grey matter to be a journalist, even now. Or is she one of those really tedious people who only ever writes about their own spectacularly vapid life?

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 17:08:44

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

PoppyAmex Thu 01-Nov-12 17:11:14

That truly sucks, Latara <sending positive vibes your way>
Her comments on mental health issues really made me see her in a different light.

Bander there's much talk of nepotism, which might answer your question.

jabberwooky Thu 01-Nov-12 17:16:04

That wiki entry has really made me laugh. God I am puerile.
And possibly rather bitter that my stepdad was a shopfitter rather than a well connected journalist, therefore I had so much further to go should I have wanted to be an overpaid columnist in a Murdoch rag.

FreddieMercurysFrightfulBolero Thu 01-Nov-12 17:27:29

But it's just a little old thread all about her and her real name. Not about her being a bully, oh no.

Cultural lesbian means someone who chooses to have relationships with women rather than men for political/cultural/feminist reasons.

Really? And - am I being thick - not because they fancy women?

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 17:36:09

No, that wasn't the way that JB was using it. She isn't part of that political lesbian movement.

UltraBOF Thu 01-Nov-12 17:36:25

I thought that was a political lesbian?

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 17:37:12

I've known lots and lots of political lesbians. In this particular interview, Burchill was saying that she and Raven were some of the few laydeez who were cultured.

So Vita S-W and people who wear opera cloaks then?

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 17:40:17

Actually JB was by implication rather slagging off political lesbians (which again, she really really isn't, or rather wasn't at the time) as being uncultured. Frightful hairy-legged thugs.

Oh. But it's ungrammatical <splutters>

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 17:45:16


Bessie123 Thu 01-Nov-12 17:53:38

Boo, the wiki entry has gone back to the original one. What did it say??

In the thrift book (otherwise known as oh shit I've got into tens of thousands of pounds debt buying cashmere baby blankets and dino eggs I'd better make lemonade out of that lemon by writing a book about having no money) IK wrote that she didn't like and had never understood that whole small, babyish fingernails thing that some women have. Erm, it's called genetics, love not everyone has mannish tranny nail DNA

All her writing is basically about how utterly wonderful she is. Tiresome.

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 18:02:54

What?! What was that about fingernails?! confused

The Wiki entry is still there! grin

Nancy66 Thu 01-Nov-12 18:05:35

what's with all the deletions? Has Ik complained?

I swear I'm not making it up. She said how squoval manicures were best, and was dissing people with childlike, small nails. I noticed it because I have nails like that; it got my goat a bit - like we can help it? Like saying I don't like people with big noses or piggy eyes.

Londonista1975 Thu 01-Nov-12 18:07:37

Just seen I've had my first ever deletion which is odd as I don't think I said anything offensive yesterday. Can someone from MNHQ please fill us in on the reasons for the deletes? Something to do with India's imminent web chat, perhaps?

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 18:09:41

<looks at own hands>

India would loathe my hands. They're small and dainty and so are my nails. Soz and that Indy babes. We can't all be supermodels like you.

SpringHeeledJack Thu 01-Nov-12 18:11:11

have just read WHOLE THREAD to see what the fuck was with all the deletions

still haven't a clue

I think IK and Liz are both awful tho Liz' first book was FABulous

[my-two-bob face]

SpringHeeledJack Thu 01-Nov-12 18:13:49

oh god- reading that article remember JB is worse than both of them.

Put together.

I'd forgotten about all the Islamophobic nuttiness. No wonder I never stumble across her any more

Londonista1975 Thu 01-Nov-12 18:19:20

I see the post that speculated that India threatened MNHQ with names that she's found out from IP addresses has been deleted...(yes latecomers, India tweeted that she knows who some of the 'mentals' are).

Be careful out there, darlings.

mrspumpkinpatch Thu 01-Nov-12 18:22:29

If she is searching IP addresses that is both sad and mental.

It's the internet = who cares!?

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 18:23:05

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

SpringHeeledJack Thu 01-Nov-12 18:23:31


BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 18:25:49

What?! What?!

mrspumpkinpatch Thu 01-Nov-12 18:26:59

Lmfao @ Greggs you to death.

FreddieMercurysFrightfulBolero Thu 01-Nov-12 18:29:40

<ladylike snort> @ Bupcakes.

Yes, she's going to find me using my IP and come to the wettest, windiest corner of Ireland to belt me with a sausage roll.

Londonista1975 Thu 01-Nov-12 18:30:02

Greggs?! Honey, you can at least expect to be pelted with rum and lime cupcakes from Primrose Bakery (that's in Primrose Hill, you pleb) <sarcastic face for the benefit of MNHQ>

mrspumpkinpatch Thu 01-Nov-12 18:30:44

She's free to come over bearing Greggs. Like one of the 3 wise men only not wise, a man or in a group of 3.

Also I'm not Jesus. FYI.

FreddieMercurysFrightfulBolero Thu 01-Nov-12 18:31:21

That makes a bit more sense wildstrawberry - I though it a bit odd to have a term specially for lesbians who go to the theatre <grin>

JazzyTheSnowman Thu 01-Nov-12 18:33:36

I have NEVER seen such a fucking hysterical thread.

Practically every one in 5 posts has been removed! I'm practically dying! But I think, or the record, that India Knight is an utter fuckwit. Much rather talk Liz Jones over her any day.

After IK's comments about depression, it took all my strength not to hunt her house down and beat her to death with my old supply of tablets.

Oblomov Thu 01-Nov-12 18:35:27

I too can't work out what all the deletions are for.

Londonista1975 Thu 01-Nov-12 18:39:02

I think it's got something to do with the web chat she's doing here soon.

hackmum Thu 01-Nov-12 18:40:42

Oh dear. I was a bit surprised at IK going out with Eric Joyce, but then I googled him and realised I'd got him mixed up with Eric Pickles.

Now. Is it true that both IK's exes are gay? Or one of them is? Or neither? Weighing in on O'Hagan, I don't mind his journalism, but I found Personality unreadable, and gave up after about a quarter of the way through.

SpringHeeledJack Thu 01-Nov-12 18:41:11

aaah, I see

surely she's only coming on here to flog a book, so will come on here whatevs?

JazzyTheSnowman Thu 01-Nov-12 18:43:38

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

UltraBOF Thu 01-Nov-12 18:43:43

I wonder if MNHQ are going to have to do the "live" webchat with a twenty second delay to strategically remove comments?

LineRunner Thu 01-Nov-12 18:45:26

I was going to go to the MN Blog Fest next Saturday but I won't be going now because I don't want to have to be within vomiting distance of Liz Jones for her vile, vile comparison of herself to a 15 year old Canadian teenager who is now dead.

Fucking fuck.

SpringHeeledJack Thu 01-Nov-12 18:46:04


it's because of the MH stuff, I presume- isn't it?

iirc last time she came for a webchat we were all luffly

or has she done Something Else as well?

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 18:49:06

The last time she was here for a webchat everyone was crawling into her arse.

Consils Thu 01-Nov-12 18:51:53

What were all the deletions about?

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 18:54:01

Because some people said rude things about India Knight's face/weight and it is naughty.

UltraBOF Thu 01-Nov-12 18:54:52

I might go on her webchat, and perform some working-classness for her. She seems to enjoy that.

Nancy66 Thu 01-Nov-12 18:55:17

wonder if she'll bring a team of editors along to her webchat - so they can turn her rambling bollocks into something vaguely readable?

TheCrackFox Thu 01-Nov-12 18:59:02

Does the fact I have been deleted mean that IK has my IP address?

If IK decides to sue me I will represent myself in court. I will be like Erin Brokovitch as I have the tits for it.

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 18:59:09

I do envy , madly, people who get paid masses to write drivel. I am really quite good at writing drivel but do I beat down queues of commissioning editors panting for my drivel? That would be a no. I am reduced to writing clear, incisive copy about neurological diseases instead for a pittance.

VivaLeBeaver Thu 01-Nov-12 18:59:41

I've been reading this thread wondering why on earth Princess Diana's ex bridesmaid is slajjing off Liz Jones.

I've got the wrong one haven't I?

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 19:00:03

This is an extract from a webchat she did on here is 2007:

Q:Mumto3girls: How many times did you get a manuscript returned (if ever) before someone agreed to publish you?

A: It's not happened to me. But it happens to loads of people, e.g. JK Rowling, who go on to become major successes.

LOL. Of course it's never happened to you India, babe. Definitely because your writing is like, totally bodacious. And not because of who step-pater hobnobs with.

jabberwooky Thu 01-Nov-12 19:00:56

Not well connected enough motherinferior

motherinferior Thu 01-Nov-12 19:03:06

You know, shamingly, I didn't know about step-pater till yesterday. I feel quite a lot better, I have to say.

LineRunner Thu 01-Nov-12 19:05:25

I don't want anything to do with either of them. Fucking arseholes.

jabberwooky Thu 01-Nov-12 19:05:33

I really am heartily sick of the likes of India Knight pontificating about ANYTHING.

ChuffMuffin Thu 01-Nov-12 19:05:50

"In her spare time, India enjoys eating children and being a massive internet bully. She excels at the latter."

Oh Wikipedia you card!

cocolepew Thu 01-Nov-12 19:17:30

At least it won't be a love-in like Caitlin (I'm so kooky) Morans webchat. That was a cringefest.

Nancy66 Thu 01-Nov-12 19:24:32

coco - wasn't it. Really embarrassing.

SpringHeeledJack Thu 01-Nov-12 19:26:15

ere, anyone else read her first book and think she was settling scores with fuckloads of people? Notably her ex and her step dad, but also others?

c'mon own up

I did at the time


don't know why- I didn't know anything about her. Think maybe the writing was a bit erratic, and she didn't seem much like a makey-uppy person?

SpringHeeledJack Thu 01-Nov-12 19:42:22

I didn't crawl up Caitlin Moran's arse

I did Zoe Williams though

I think I'm probs still up there

BupcakesAndHaunting Thu 01-Nov-12 19:46:18

I crawled up Moran's arse blush

squoosh Thu 01-Nov-12 19:51:07

Shame on you all.

I have never inhabited a columnists's arse.


Londonista1975 Thu 01-Nov-12 20:18:47

Just caught up with her Wiki entry. Classic.

FreddieMercurysFrightfulBolero Thu 01-Nov-12 20:30:25

Ah though, if I don't particularly like someone, I just don't go on the webchat. I wouldn't go and slag her on the webchat, twouldn't be fair on MNHQ. And it'd make us look like vipers.

LittleBearPad Thu 01-Nov-12 20:43:52

I get the feeling with her books that there's no imagination at all - just a repetition of her life. The last Christmassy one was dire.

Shelly32 Thu 01-Nov-12 20:43:54

I just looked at IK's twitter. She doesn't think much of Mumsnetters!! Last night's quote re: MN was :
'Imagine being an adult woman & not using your real name to bitch about people you don't know'

BupcakesAndCunting Thu 01-Nov-12 20:45:07

Where IS that Tweet, Shelly?! I want to bitch about her in my real name.

LittleBearPad Thu 01-Nov-12 20:45:22

Whereas she uses her real name to bitch about people she doesn't know and gets paid to do so. Not sure which is better.

cocolepew Thu 01-Nov-12 20:48:52

I'm happy for her to know my real name, it's Jean Giselle.

SrirachaGhoul Thu 01-Nov-12 20:50:43

Why are there so many deletions on this thread? Someone pm me some juicy gossip pleeeeeeeeeeeease?

BupcakesAndCunting Thu 01-Nov-12 20:53:55

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Londonista1975 Thu 01-Nov-12 20:53:56

Here buppers, two days ago:

Londonista1975 Thu 01-Nov-12 20:54:21
BupcakesAndCunting Thu 01-Nov-12 20:55:38

Ahhh thanks babba. I just founded it and asked her if I could slag her off under my real name.

<totally outs self>

Shelly32 Thu 01-Nov-12 20:55:49

She's so snidey about her upcoming MN chat too! Sounds like a right cow imo! I've never read any of her books and I'm definitely not going to now!

BupcakesAndCunting Thu 01-Nov-12 20:59:23

Who was that other pudgy doughface on IK's Twitterfeed, slagging off our childish handles?! (Handles? Who the fuck says handles anymore? Is this the internet or CB radio?)

Londonista1975 Thu 01-Nov-12 20:59:53

Shelly132, I read Comfort and Joy two years ago to get me in the Chrstmas mood and it was awful, and actually made me feel miserable. God knows what the next book's like.

Shelly32 Thu 01-Nov-12 21:00:22

Bupcakes lol!!

Londonista1975 Thu 01-Nov-12 21:00:38

You mean the ever peripheral Sali Hughes, Buppers?

BupcakesAndCunting Thu 01-Nov-12 21:02:25

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Shelly32 Thu 01-Nov-12 21:02:26

Londonista Is she quite a rated author? I read a lot but have never been tempted by anything she's written.

WelshMaenad Thu 01-Nov-12 21:05:42

I'm amused by her assertion that everyone's going to have a starter marriage. No hope of me turning my husband gay, sorry love.

Londonista1975 Thu 01-Nov-12 21:07:50

I don't think her books are rated highly, Shelley. You're not missing much. I'm frankly staggered that Penguin haven't dropped her yet, though the diet book she co-wrote was a best seller.

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BeerTricksPott3r Thu 01-Nov-12 22:51:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Devora Fri 02-Nov-12 00:02:14

There's a cultural lesbian in my family - told me she wasn't REALLY a lesbian, she just had to find someone with whom she could discuss books grin

Me, I'm a lesbian who only reads the Daily Star. When I can turn over the pages with my thick hairy knuckles.

Actually, i did read a book by IK once - can't remember which one - and seem to remember she had some rather nasty things to say about lesbians. And then I met her and thought, you're just not very NICE.

Hark at me, complaining about others' lack-of-niceness while having a bitchfest on the internet. Think I'll wander over to Property and DIY for an update on the latest F&B dilemma.

Years ago, before Twitter, IK pissed me off with a column. Think it was about the MMR although I can't really remember. I emailed her and she responded very quickly (and politely). Most hacks don't bother to reply if you disagree with them. I've always thought she was ok after that. She did write a very well timed column about Kate Winslett and natural child birth the day after my first section, which had me howling with laughter. I think it went in the birth album (PFB - ha had a birth album).

She's generally good on the subject of SN as well.

Don't really like all the comments on her size etc on this thread tbh. Why do mumsnetters do this?

If she really pisses you off with something she writes, email and tell her sensibly and you may well get a sensible reply back.

Dylanlovesbaez Fri 02-Nov-12 08:22:47

India knight is just awful! Her column is generally laughable. Why have so many posts been removed?

Yeah. Email her RIGHT NOW y'all and tell her sensibly that you don't like her.

She won't have my IP thingumy as I said I LIKE her books. And barely mentioned icing sugar.

Abra1d Fri 02-Nov-12 08:33:53

This is one of the most unpleasant threads I have read on MN.

Dylanlovesbaez Fri 02-Nov-12 08:40:20

Abra, it is pretty unpleasant but then again, the things ik wrote were disgusting.

motherinferior Fri 02-Nov-12 08:48:31

Good lord, I've seen far nastier threads. Try posting that you don't fancy doing the washing, and you'll get piled into.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 02-Nov-12 08:51:37

seriously, abraid? hmm

jimjams, the reason why it's 100% absolutely dead-on acceptable, nay possibly even essential, to mention her weight is because she is continuing to coin it in from her DIET BOOK while nevertheless steadily regaining all the weight she lost. just look at that picture of her at Christmas last year, the one in Red.

likewise, it was FINE to mention that Dr Atkins was mahoosive when he keeled over and died as well, and it's FINE to mention that the woman from Lighter Life is also ginorme.

were it not for the diet book, of course I'd agree with you. but the thing is even hubristically titled 'the idiot-proof diet'...

motherinferior Fri 02-Nov-12 08:59:58

And you should have seen the Scheherzade Goldsmith thread which was totally brilliant-

OatyBeatie Fri 02-Nov-12 09:00:44

And the Jon Ronson thread.

motherinferior Fri 02-Nov-12 09:02:13

And the omigod Rachel Cusk one, which upset RC so much she cried and cried. (Although I am still miffed that I was quoted in the LRB about that one, and the implication was that I was slagging off RC for being Unmotherly when in fact I was slagging her off for the far, far worse crime of being a terrible writer.)

WelshMaenad Fri 02-Nov-12 09:02:44

Jimjams, several years ago IK made some really vile and ill informed comments about women with fertility issues. Those comments really upset a friend of mine who was struggling with infertility. So she sensibly contacted IK and asked her to reconsider her views, and IK replied and basically told her to wise up and fuck off.

Quite where a woman who has three children gets off telling infertile women how yo feel and behave is beyond me, but the woman is a bitch and a terrible writer, and I fucking loathe her.

<awaits deletion> <hurriedly resets IP address>

And ALL the Peter Andres. And the one where Getorf said that Kelly Osbourne could plough a field with her jawbone.

<waits for the sniffy thatsnothingtobeproudof comments>

I missed Rachel Cusk. Deleted?

And the Samantha Bricks. And ALL the Jiz Loans threads.

motherinferior Fri 02-Nov-12 09:08:12

RC thread is probably around somewhere. She got all amazed and upset about how much we apparently hated her. (Repeat: it's not you, it's your prose style, babe, if you're reading this.)

I missed that AND the one where Caroline Pedlar came on to defend her fruitbasket.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 02-Nov-12 09:15:41

oh i thought that was MEAN about kelly osbourne. she can't help her desperate dan jawline... i like her.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 02-Nov-12 09:18:58

btw re 'most hacks don't bother to reply if you disagree with them'. that's never been my experience, as a matter of interest, or that of colleagues. (our ed would kill us, for starters).
personally, i think it's my job to communicate with readers, even the really nasty ones. you can't please everyone, obv, but you can re-frame the conversation in a more polite way, and go from there. what do the other 'hacks' on the thread think?

motherinferior Fri 02-Nov-12 09:23:07

I haven't actually come across disagreement. I have had a couple of nice emails/letters for things I wrote <preens>.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 02-Nov-12 09:29:32

well OBVIOUSLY i get that too. 'grin]

i've had some right old cases, where you could kinda tell (as could ed) that the people were a bit vulnerable really and needed to vent. you really wouldn't think that people (a minister's wife, no less) could get to wound up about my accidentally revealing that Ross is the father of Rachel's baby.

so - polite, prompt, conciliatory the only way to go, at which point they, without exception, fold and apologise for being a bit nobbish at the start. it's just a part of the job, i quite like the challenge of bringing people in, iykwim? (and am not afraid to make plain old hands up apology if i'd made an error).

mignonette Fri 02-Nov-12 09:29:55

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The goldsmith thread was very funny.

I don't really have an issue on comments about her opinions/nepotism/whatever - but diet book, or not comments about appearance or weight always make me cringe a little. Nothing particularly to do with IK, directed at anyone at all. Please note I spend half my waking life in wetsuits these days so it's not something that stings personally. I suppose it just seems a very last way to have a go at someone.

And tbh if I was going to buy a diet book I think I'd rather buy one from someone of typical size, rather than someone who has always run a mile after eating an avocado.

Aitch - it's not really been my experience that journo's from the nationals reply, which was why it struck me as unusual. Although admittedly I stopped caring enough about anything to write in years ago, so it may have changed.

*lazy not last

hackmum Fri 02-Nov-12 09:34:14

I've seen far nastier threads on MN than this one. This one has the merit of being nasty in a funny way, rather than nasty in a nasty way, which I think makes it OK. (Yes, possibly I do have a warped sense of morality.)

Anyway, it's given us plenty of meat for the live webchat, e.g.

Is it true you turned both your husbands gay?
How does it feel to have got where you are by nepotism rather than talent?
Why is it more acceptable to be cruel about someone under your real name on Twitter than under a pseudonym on MN?

...and so on.

BupcakesAndCunting Fri 02-Nov-12 09:37:17

What's wrong with being mean about someone in a lazy way? Peter Andre never seems to mind when we laugh about his Ready Brek glow.

Peter Andre is still spelling out some of the big words, Bups.
He'll be fuming, give him time.

I don't get why being mean on Twatter under your real name is better than being mean under a MN name. Many of us would be in hot water at work (our mundane, non slebby jobs) if we posted under our real names, slebtypes could say rather the reverse. Not exactly a level playing field, that.

BupcakesAndCunting Fri 02-Nov-12 09:41:51

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BupcakesAndCunting Fri 02-Nov-12 09:44:03

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AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 02-Nov-12 09:44:33

agreed re typical size, definitely, and having read that book myself i'd say some of the insights in IK's diary were of some value.

BUT. if you write a diet book, saying it's so easy and you can eat cream and meat and it's a life-long nutritional approach, then you do open yourself up for discussion when you then regain the weight. and as someone who makes a living both from a successful diet tome and from commenting on the behaviour of other people, i to think she has to take her turn now.

Onoes shock. So how CAN you bitch in your real name if you're blocked?
You should write to Jiz Loans

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 02-Nov-12 09:47:20

what did you say, buppers?

motherinferior Fri 02-Nov-12 09:48:10

Also, you are sort of ignoring the latest research which indicates that living on cream and meat long-term is really not very good for you and raises your risk of heart disease (who knew? Dur-urr). But ignore me. I am humble health hack who writes about this stuff for a living not best-selling diet guru (and not at all envious of those who get paid loads for airy drivel, oh no, obviously).

BupcakesAndCunting Fri 02-Nov-12 09:48:35

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BupcakesAndCunting Fri 02-Nov-12 09:49:49

Aitch, I replied to this Tweet "India Knight&#8207;@indiaknight

Is the Pippa Middleton book actually selling?"


"Plenty of shit books sell (and you should know)"

<frntically tries to change IP address>

mignonette Fri 02-Nov-12 09:49:54

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carabos Fri 02-Nov-12 09:50:18

IK is raising an eyebrow at the Pippa Middleton book on twitter this morning. We need a <pot, kettle> emoticon.

carabos Fri 02-Nov-12 09:50:57

X-post with bup

mignonette Fri 02-Nov-12 09:52:28

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BupcakesAndCunting Fri 02-Nov-12 09:52:37

India probably sees a lot of Pippa in herself... purveyor of shit books, the rampant nepotism, the being rich for doing fuck all, the lofty relatives, good looks... <ahem>

mignonette Fri 02-Nov-12 09:58:05

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BupcakesAndCunting Fri 02-Nov-12 09:58:50

grin Mignonette

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 02-Nov-12 09:59:56

gawsh re sniding Pippa Middleton. shock that does seem rather artless.

mignonette Fri 02-Nov-12 10:01:55

I actually love the Blackberry Butter idea in PM's book-worth the purchase price (although it's online so no need) and think that, at least, it is her family business to promote parties and occasions....

BupcakesAndCunting Fri 02-Nov-12 10:07:36

I actually LIKE Pippa now that IK is having a pop at her. And I LIKE Jiz Loans, now that IK has had a pop at her.

This is fucking with my head. IK if you're reading this which you totes are please don't have a pop at Peter Andre...

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 02-Nov-12 10:08:29

it's a book for the yanks, really, isn't it? if she's any good, pippa will move there and be a new, english martha stooart, and one with royal connections. basically what cherry menlove wanted to be.

See I like her and I like her books. I think she does some funny bitching and is prolly a bit spiteful and likes shops. Much like me and all my fave people in fact.

But I think with the mental health/retarded thing she's straying into Wanker Gervais/Frankie Boyle territory and she should be big <snurk> enough to acknowledge that she needs to take it if she dishes it out. And makes a tidy living from it.

Channel the white carbs, India, and Rise Above.

BupcakesAndCunting Fri 02-Nov-12 10:10:41

Sue, I don't have a problem with the comedy bitching (as if I could) I just hate, hate, hate her stinking attitude wrt MH. It just marks her out as a bit of a div, really.

DappyHays Fri 02-Nov-12 10:15:55

IK if you're reading this which you totes are please don't have a pop at Peter Andre

Arf and seconded.

mignonette Fri 02-Nov-12 10:17:12

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OatyBeatie Fri 02-Nov-12 11:02:54

Bup, but isn't it different when you block someone on Twitter, because you aren't preventing them commenting at all? It's just a hide poster option, so they can't comment directly to you, only to whoever else they want to, and whoever follows them. Which I absolutely would do if someone was being abusive and personal about me. So it isn't strictly hypocritical to tweet nastily and block another's nasty tweets. I'm a bit embarrassed at being on a thread which is so completely abusive to a named person, no matter how bad her writing might be, and how nepotistic her career.

OatyBeatie Fri 02-Nov-12 11:04:33

"Which I absolutely would do" -- I mean I absolutely would block, not that I would tweet nastily!

B1ueberryP1e Fri 02-Nov-12 11:08:33

I like Pippa. I envy her looks, her figure, her yoooof, but She's treading a fine line that girl. It would exhaust me. Even if she weren't kate's sister she certainly wouldn't be working in Barclays that's for sure. And Liz, I don't understand the vitriol towards Liz. She's just toooo toooo honest.

GrimAndHumourless Fri 02-Nov-12 11:12:34

Jazzy you said she's a parasite

I didn't know she was French

<guffaws at puerile self>

B1ueberryP1e Fri 02-Nov-12 11:13:41

ps, I think it's worse to be mean on twitter because it's so confrontational and it puts the person you're being mean about in the position of having to respond, or have all their acquaintances learn that somebody who knows them thinks x,yz about them. Some randomer beeotching about you on mumsnet is not in the same ball park at all. That's what I would think if I were in the public eye.

motherinferior Fri 02-Nov-12 11:21:55

Bad writing deserves the cosh <gavel> (Raich, that's you I'm looking at)

BupcakesAndCunting Fri 02-Nov-12 11:27:46

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cocolepew Fri 02-Nov-12 11:40:59

The thing is IK isn't bitching under her real name though. India is her middle name <awkward>. That being the case you can call me Margaret India .

TheBigJessie Fri 02-Nov-12 11:51:16

Am I Unreasonable to Think That: JB should refer to herself as a cultureD lesbian? It would've avoided all the ensuing confusion years later.

Londonista1975 Fri 02-Nov-12 12:15:46

The column about mental health went beyond bad writing.

I don't agree with disparaging comments about her appearance, but everything else? She deserves any abuse she gets.

Levantine Fri 02-Nov-12 12:38:01

Am rubbish withi twitter but just noticed lovely ed Simons of the chemical brothers re ik calling mumsnet mentals

@indiaknight "mentals" that's acceptable language is it?

Good for him

EldritchCleavage Fri 02-Nov-12 12:45:58

I don't agree with abuse at all, though a bit of snarkiness as we debate the whole thing is fine. I really despair of the barbs about appearance whenever woman are in the firing line though. I'm no supermodel, but there are plenty more cogent reasons to dislike me before you even get to considering that one. If a group of men were discussing IK and LJ in the terms that we have been on this thread, wouldn't we be up in arms about it?

And I am not currying favour with anyone who might be reading this thread in posting that. I despise the thin-skinned hypocrisy that appears to have eviscerated the thread. Pure humbug.

EldritchCleavage Fri 02-Nov-12 12:46:56

women are in the firing line. Sorry. I am catty, but not illiterate.

WelshMaenad Fri 02-Nov-12 12:46:57

MrLondonStreet really doesn't like her much either does he?

JamieandtheMagicTorch Fri 02-Nov-12 12:47:12


I totally agree.

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt Fri 02-Nov-12 12:50:45

I like Kelly Osbourne now. I made that comment re her plough jaw when she was all over the news being simply vile about people. Anyway her job is to comment about people's appearances anyway. <shrugs>

EldritchCleavage Fri 02-Nov-12 13:04:26

You agree that I'm catty but not illiterate? Thank you!

Arithmeticulous Fri 02-Nov-12 13:08:16

MrLondonStreet doesn't like anyone much grin

Strawhatpirate Fri 02-Nov-12 13:22:37

In normal circumstances I would agree but LJ is forever banging on about appearance "this is how I look in the morning" "women who have had children are jealous of how I look in a bikini" etc. IK did call LJ a cat wanker. Which I think is a lot nastier than likening her appearance to something Jim Henson made.

Calling someone a cat wanker is hilarious. We've done MUCH worse to Jiz.
I start to feel sorry for her, then I remember that article when Jo Yeates was murdered. And think, yeah, alright then. Fair enough.

Sorry Getorf btw, didn't mean to single you out. Just that that is how I remember that thread grin

Vagabond Fri 02-Nov-12 14:27:25

I think IK was harping on about IP addresses the other night (which is such a typical threat from internet bullies) is because she suspected that the person who she was having the little tweet-off with the other night was Liz Jones.

Bupcakes - being blocked by IK is a win in my book! Did she insult you before she blocked you?

Latara Fri 02-Nov-12 14:41:26

I just can't believe IK is actually using the term ''mentals'' to describe people.

I'm not going to slag off her weight or looks well i'm a bit overweight but just the fact she is nasty & prejudiced.

An actual adult using words like that... says it all i think.

And i would email IK using my real name if i had her email address or knew how Twitter worked; just to inform her of her stupidity re: MH problems & use of immature words.

But she wouldn't actually listen so it's pointless really.

Btw i have it on good authority (friend of a posh friend) that Pippa Middleton is actually a very nice person.

PoppyAmex Fri 02-Nov-12 15:01:53

I just noticed the other thread about IK's comments on Mental Health was deleted.

It's going to be an interesting web chat, that's for sure.

mignonette Fri 02-Nov-12 15:47:35

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Latara Fri 02-Nov-12 15:51:30

Hmmm, wonder why that thread was deleted? Could it be that IK wishes to clean up her image?

India Knight - why not apologise for your comments on mental illness & disgusting use of the word 'mentals'??

Then make a donation to the mental health charity MIND?

Or make a donation to any local charity that helps homeless or vulnerably housed people - sadly many of the people who attend the local CMHT Outpatients Dept are in that situation.

It's never to late to be a better person & apologise.

mignonette Fri 02-Nov-12 15:55:37

Disgustingly vile comments........And they will not be forgotten. No matter how many threads and posts are deleted.

OatyBeatie Fri 02-Nov-12 16:00:33

I love "squoval" mignonette. Never heard that before.

AllYoursBabooshka Fri 02-Nov-12 16:03:20

TBH I think it's rather shit that she is still doing the web chat considering her fucked up view on MH.

Mumsnet has an amazingly supportive section full of people suffering with depression and other MH illnesses.

I understand that everyone has the right to an opinion but it is clear that she just wanted to cause a stir and get a bit of attention.

She can harp on as much as she likes with "I only meant celebs" but it doesn't change the fact that she insulted and upset a lot of people, some of which are vulnerable and is not one bit sorry, she's quite the opposite.

That and the fact that she is a bully which we all frown upon around here last time I checked.
They should just scrap her and we could all have a little web chat with the people at HQ that day. grin

<ranty mcrant rant>

mignonette Fri 02-Nov-12 16:03:31

That's from an earlier Mner who quoted Indolent Knight's dislike of women with 'babyshaped' fingernails and that fingernails should be elegantly 'squoval'. I cannot take the credit smile....

And I'm not going to be the person who accidentally knocks Indolent Knight's books down the back of the displays in bookstores........

OatyBeatie Fri 02-Nov-12 16:10:04

Ah, right. I googled it and it seems it is an established nail terminology which I would have known about if I wasn't so poorly groomed. Though oddly the term has been trademarked by a bicycle design company.

mignonette Fri 02-Nov-12 16:11:09

Who changed Wikipaedia again? Own up?

VivaLeBeaver Fri 02-Nov-12 16:12:22

When is the bunfight web chat? I might take a day off work! grin

Arithmeticulous Fri 02-Nov-12 16:13:50

grin Subtle change, that.

mignonette Fri 02-Nov-12 16:21:37

From the interview with Indolent Knight in 'Red' -

I try to put myself in the male characters that I write, too. Both the husbands in the book have intolerances, which are very much my own.

Yeah- Intolerant towards the mentally ill and those that do not worship at squoval nailed feet.......

squoosh Fri 02-Nov-12 16:30:53

I don't normally care much for these webchats but oddly enough I have a yearning to witness this one. Will my screen actually melt with all the rage?

And the last one was so Naice <weeps>

Londonista1975 Fri 02-Nov-12 16:51:38

Well, I am utterly appalled my thread about her column on mental health has been deleted. Why do you all think it was removed? Still, at least alot of people read it who hadn't before because of the Times paywall.

Yes the webchat will be fascinating to read. I won't be able to take part because of pure hatred but the transcript will be compelling, I'm sure.

cocolepew Fri 02-Nov-12 16:53:43

Has the whole thread been deleated?! shock

That went quietly then. And they would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids.
Sure it wasn't in Chat and pfftd?

Londonista1975 Fri 02-Nov-12 16:58:06

Yeah it's gone.

I put it in AIBU. Bit of coincidence it was deleted today, no?

FreddieMercurysFrightfulBolero Fri 02-Nov-12 17:14:04

Hmm. Perhaps it was deleted because it was a paywall article?

squoosh Fri 02-Nov-12 17:20:35

Very interesting.

Secret censorship at work

MooncupGoddess Fri 02-Nov-12 17:26:30

Why is IK doing a webchat - does she have another opportunistic book out?

This thread does rather demonstrate the danger of making oneself the story... if IK makes everything she writes and does all about her (very profitably so, I imagine) she can't really complain when there's a backlash.

I think MNHQ usually email the OP of a deleted thread.

Levantine Fri 02-Nov-12 18:09:20

She will have a bad cold the day of the web chat I reckon and won't be able to make it

Londonista1975 Fri 02-Nov-12 18:26:45

I don't think it was deleted because of the paywall - I linked to Alastair Campbell's blog in which he reproduced her column. That blog with her column is still up.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 02-Nov-12 19:38:45

I am so baffled by the "people on MN not even using their real names" thing. I am not sure that @Bacon01 or @luvlybubbly are using their real names either - MN is hardly unique in having handles as user names.

B1ueberryP1e Fri 02-Nov-12 19:46:31

yeah but liz jones and india knight are not anonymous on twitter. they could both be on here for all we know though.

TheBigJessie Fri 02-Nov-12 20:06:36

<Can imagine someone accusing LJ of sexual acts with animals on MN but still wouldn't laugh then>

B1ueberryP1e Fri 02-Nov-12 23:40:33

I wouldn' t laugh at that either. LJ is known to love animals, and to suggest that a love of animals is deviant is really juvenile. Honestly it is exactly the sort of 'joke' or jibe a 13 year old boy would make to impress his gaggle of onlookers.

Londonista1975 Sat 03-Nov-12 07:46:54

I didn't think the cat thing was funny either, unlike a lot of comments on this thread.

iponder Sat 03-Nov-12 08:46:19

Tanya Gould in the Guardian today fails to list India Knight in her list of those who have made shamefully ignorant comments about mental health. Pity!

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 03-Nov-12 09:30:57

tanya gould, mind you... she is The Worst Writer.

BupcakesAndCunting Sat 03-Nov-12 09:39:22

Why has that other thread gone? I bet IK has been throwing her weight around and demanding that it goes poof before she comes on for her webchat. What an absolute lily-liver. hmm

mignonette Sat 03-Nov-12 09:47:42

Well look at the working relationships between MMHQ, where one DH works and the compromising position that must put some of them in when people like Indolent Knight/SH/Caitlin Moron start being treated as they treat others on twatter...

Needs to be pointed out, MNHQ.......Censorship not good.

mignonette Sat 03-Nov-12 09:49:56

My last post very badly written - what I meant was that when you or your partner may have close working/social relationships with so many meeja people, inappropriate requests can be made and acted threads being censored.....

UltraBOF Sat 03-Nov-12 10:31:14

I doubt it's that. I'm sure Justine has long ago handed over worrying about our sweary contempt for various media luvvies to Helen and the others, for the sake of her nerves. Why doesn't someone mail and ask them?

mignonette Sat 03-Nov-12 10:31:47

Just wondering.....

Londonista1975 Sat 03-Nov-12 10:36:48

Is it true what SuePurlybut says about MNHQ emailing the OP of a deleted thread? Because I haven't got anything yet.

UltraBOF Sat 03-Nov-12 10:41:41

I don't think it is, actually.

squoosh Sat 03-Nov-12 10:46:08


AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 03-Nov-12 10:51:05

nah, far more likely to be that one of the newer HQ mods is a bit trigger-happy than some big conspiracy. ime and imo, HQ not really uncool enough to censor just cos one of their pals asks. (if she is a pal).

Londonista1975 Sat 03-Nov-12 10:55:10

OK, just seems odd that it was deleted either on Wednesday or Thursday when this thread was bubbling away. It was there on Tuesday. Think I'll email them anyway for an explanation.

Murky, indeed.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 03-Nov-12 11:08:43

might just have been that they hadn't really noticed it before. hope so, anyway. i do think that HQ is generally on the side of our free speech, insofar as it doesn't get them sued.

Latara Sat 03-Nov-12 11:33:05

Members of the general public have been fined / imprisoned over comments made on FB / Twitter re: the Riots last Summer; Tom Daly's father; Patrick Muamba (the footballer who collapsed) etc. etc.

Yet comedians, columnists & politicians seem to get away with saying anything inc. some very nasty, offensive & prejudiced stuff in print, on Twitter, FB etc. as it's ''their job'' or ''just a joke''.

Weird. Total double standards in Real Life.

Oh my mistake. When threads have been deleted for non bunfight reasons before (a wolef one for eg) the OP was asked IIRC.

ArcticRoll Sat 03-Nov-12 22:47:43

Has MNHQ said why the AIBU re IK's disgraceful column on mental health was deleted ?

It is a bit worrying as it reeks of censorship-is it linked to her coming to here to promote her new novel and not wanting to upset her?

I know that it did get a bit personal with people laying into her looks and weight. However the bulk of the thread was posters criticising her opinions on people with mental health problems and how she used Twitter to attack anyone who questioned her views.

EnidMary Sun 04-Nov-12 01:11:38

I don't know who India Knight is but she sounds vile. Poor Liz, in this case.

Londonista1975 Sun 04-Nov-12 09:21:21

Arctic, they haven't said anything yet but will email them today. I suspect your reason is correct.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 05-Nov-12 15:02:14

Hello. So sorry not to have posted in answer to your questions till now.

Ok, so t'other thread some of you referring to was deleted because it had deteriorated into a succession of highly personal and potentially libellous comments.

That's also the reason for (most of) the deletions here.

Of course, we have have no problem with anyone criticising India Knight or Liz Jones for their actions/words but we do draw the line at nastily offensive personal comment.

To use the well-worn football-coach analogy, please can we ask you all to remember to play the ball not the (wo)man...

EldritchCleavage Mon 05-Nov-12 16:00:20

Since IK does not appear to remember to play the ball not the (wo)man, why is she bering invited for a webchat?

EldritchCleavage Mon 05-Nov-12 16:01:04

being, even.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 05-Nov-12 16:30:05


Since IK does not appear to remember to play the ball not the (wo)man, why is she bering invited for a webchat?

Erm, I'm not aware that she is being invited for a webchat, EldritchCleavage.

EldritchCleavage Mon 05-Nov-12 16:35:36

OK, fine. I stand corrected. It was the talk of the thread that she was coming on shortly for a webchat.

mignonette Mon 05-Nov-12 17:00:50

Typical hypocritical op-ed from Indolent Knight in Sunday Times snarking at Pippa Middleton for her nepotism-facilitated book deal and lack of literary merit.

Because 'The Shops' was high art, wasn't it? And Indolent Knight was plucked off the streets because of sheer raw talent wasn't she?

Helen, as an unrelated query, would that ^ account for one of the missing XF threads of Yore? The one where we decided that Michael Buble was likely to be a serial killing stalker type?
We did wonder where it went.

IndolentKnight Mon 05-Nov-12 19:34:47

Hellair everyone!

<waves regally>

...sorry, I couldn't help myself! grin

Shelly32 Mon 05-Nov-12 20:50:10

Umm.. India seems to think she's coming on. This is from her Twitter:

Still, doing Mumsnet chat next month. We can address all the exciting topics in detail, with emails. *laughs forever

Sounds charming!

Maybe she has us confussed with the Other Place?

Shelly32 Mon 05-Nov-12 20:52:41

Maybe..Now she's gone down even further in my estimation! grin

Londonista1975 Mon 05-Nov-12 21:26:05

She tweeted she was coming on here fr a webchat to someone last week.

Londonista1975 Mon 05-Nov-12 21:42:09

I think that surely it would have been better to have deleted the offensive posts rather than the thread, like you've done here? A lot of posters made excellent points about mental health, which was the subject of her column that I indirectly linked to, via Alastair Campbell's blog post. Maybe I'm reaching for the stars here, but perhaps some people would have found some posts useful.

Or maybe two 'India bashing' threads were deemed as too many?

IndolentKnight Mon 05-Nov-12 22:01:22

Perhaps she isn't now, so.

It would be funny if nobody showed up and asked a question at the webchat , if there is a webchat that is...

Londonista1975 Mon 05-Nov-12 22:04:21

I'm wondering if she was supposed to but mysteriously pulled out last week...

mignonette Tue 06-Nov-12 10:01:59


Excellent idea- spread the word. Let's turn silent and deadly.

shooz27 Thu 22-Nov-12 18:52:03

Hi, Sali Hughes here. A member of my FB group told me about this.

To be clear, I did not accuse anyone who disagrees with India of being 'a troll'. I was referring very specifically to the tweeter who made accusations that India was somehow ashamed of her Pakistani mother and that this had prompted her to change her name. There are some entries here that echo this sentiment. I considered it to be trolling because it's horribly personal and mean and completely untrue. India has spoken about her mother publicly very often and is extremely open and proud of both her family and her ethnic origin. She has also been open about the reasons for changing her name which are personal, much less sinister than some of you seem to think, and very much her own business (by the way, there's no cover up - her real name is all over the internet). I myself am from a blended family - as I'm sure are many of you - and I think it's unkind to start speculating on why someone might carry their stepfather's name.

As for Liz Jones, my feelings are irrelevant. Was India's outburst warranted, or wrong? It's completely fair game that you all have an opinion and a right to express it. But at least Liz and India have known each other for a very long time and India's outburst came after umpteen references by Liz Jones to India's personal life in her column. Whether she was right to or not to tweet it is one thing, that doesn't change the emotions behind her actions, which are in my view, completely understandable.

I find it extremely ironic that this is a thread made up of very many insulting comments towards someone whose perceived crime is being 'bitchy' on a public forum. Extraordinarily hypocritical. Insulting another mum because you think she's too heavy? REALLY? Come on. And as for hating on people for being middle class, it's just too ridiculous. Accusing her friends of being scared of her? Based on what? We are grown women for goodness' sake. It's nice to hear some support for India here, as well as some disagreement, but some of these comments are just poisonous, mean spirited and without any understanding of the situation with Liz Jones.

If you think it's unreasonable or precious of me to come on here and defend someone I love, I'm afraid I make no apologies for it. India is an extremely kind person, a loyal and caring friend and a fantastic mother (and no, not remotely snobby) who is completely unrecognisable in many of these posts. Journalist or not, I think if you read such horrible things about someone you care deeply about, then I suspect most of you would say something.

As for the insult directed at me about my job. Jesus - we're laughing at women for writing about beauty now? The commenter's shameless spite and sexism is embarrassing.


ThePathanKhansWitch Thu 22-Nov-12 19:08:53

I have no idea who you are Sally, but good for you sticking up for a pal.
I wouldn,t have thought Ms Knight needed anyone to stick up for her.
I still think the comments about L.J were purile and vicious.

shooz27 Thu 22-Nov-12 19:14:38

Thank you. I think it's a mistake to think someone is incapable of being hurt by such nastiness. Personal comments - especially when completely untrue - hurt anyone, irrespective of their profession or public profile. I also think it's a shame that even as recently as the Mumsnet conference, LJ was still making inaccurate references to India's private life on stage. It's hideous. I'm not surprised India snapped that once. I think it's a miracle it was only once.
But as I say, completely fine to think she was wrong. Less fine to pile on a load of personal (and wrong) stuff for good measure. At least those two know each other very well and have their reasons. To heap bile on someone one knows nothing about, and to speculate that they are ashamed of their own mother, is less easy to defend.
Sali x

BeerTricksPott3r Thu 22-Nov-12 19:19:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BandersnatchCummerbund Thu 22-Nov-12 19:19:34

Sali - if comments are childish, I suspect that's because the whole thing is embarrassingly childish. They are grown women - what kind of serious journalist vomits their personal life and personal feuds up all across Twitter? They're deliberately choosing to have a schoolgirl spat in as public as medium as they can possibly find - I don't think it's surprising that responses are equally immature. If you are a good friend of India's, why not suggest that she should step away the twitter and conduct her private life in private? If Liz Jones isn't able to do the same, that's a shame - but India would retain more dignity by refraining from following her example, or at the least writing something more sober and less excitable.

shooz27 Thu 22-Nov-12 19:26:26

Sorry, so your reasoning is it's perfectly fine for strangers to publicly accuse a woman of being ashamed of her family and ethnic origin, of being fat and a load of other stuff because she and a former friend have been childish and undignified? I simply don't understand your reasoning on this one at all. "They were childish and unpleasant towards each other so we'll be vile on completely unrelated topics". Just don't get it at all.
By the way, ever snapped at someone and said something you regret? I have. Thankfully I wasn't on a website when it happened, but I can understand how it could occur. It's not great and should probably be avoided, but it happens. I don't see how it declares open season for strangers to pile in and insult you in the most personal and inaccurate manner.

shooz27 Thu 22-Nov-12 19:31:56

Logging off now. I've said what I wanted - to point out that many of these comments are factually incorrect - and it's fine by me that people disagree with me. Just know that these very personal things that are said publicly on here are always heard by the people they refer to. It's not like gossiping in a friend's front room, it's far nearer to going up to a stranger in the street and calling them fat or accusing them of being ashamed of their mother. It's completely public. I'd suggest that if you wouldn't say it to someone straight, then don't say it on here and think for one minute it's any different. But if you would, then I guess that's between you and your conscience.

Pinot Thu 22-Nov-12 19:33:12

Sali Hughes?! <fan girl scream>

ThePathanKhansWitch Thu 22-Nov-12 19:45:26

I,ve just googled sali hughes. I,m no good with names and a bit dim.
Sali can you not do a cheapo column one wweek? I know you try to cover all pockets, even still.
<hijack over>.

Pinot Thu 22-Nov-12 19:49:43

Sali did, not long ago - she did Beauty Heroes for under a Tenner. It's on the Guardian website still. Essentially it was Elnett, Revlon Red nail polish, Neutrogena Body Lotion and (I think) Astral face cream.

Not that I am obsessed with her or anything <whistles>

Vagabond Thu 22-Nov-12 19:50:50

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ThePathanKhansWitch Thu 22-Nov-12 19:55:27

Ta to have a butchers.

We better stop before this is moved to s&b.grin

Vagabond Thu 22-Nov-12 19:56:38

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Nancy66 Thu 22-Nov-12 19:56:51

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BeerTricksPott3r Thu 22-Nov-12 19:58:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BupcakesAndCunting Thu 22-Nov-12 20:04:52

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Pinot Thu 22-Nov-12 20:04:54

See? This is why I fanny about on S&B and avoid AIBU.

<prannies off to discuss mascara in depth>

Pinot Thu 22-Nov-12 20:05:58

Hold the phone, IK wrote about Mental Illness? In a bad way? That's my achilles heel. angry

shooz27 Thu 22-Nov-12 20:10:39

Her book's not officially out for a week but WOW. What a bonkers statement. I really wish I could be that engaged in commerce and marketing. I might be rich.

Perhaps MN deleted a thread accusing India of saying things lifted from Alastair Campbell's blog because he quoted her column inaccurately and helped start the whole thing off. Given that it was inaccurate (always best to read the original before forming an opinion), I wouldn't be surprised if MN feared legal issues, but who knows.

I spoke at Mumsnet blogfest conference recently and found everyone I met so completely lovely and interesting and opinionated. I came away feeling so positively about the organisation. I've never read any threads before (I avoid things where someone feels the need to say "They're all slagging you off on mumsnet!", which they invariably do, because no one wants their weekend ruined by having to read nasty things about themselves), so this was my first. This thread is really depressingly unkind and unsisterly towards people you simply know nothing about. One thing for two women who know one another to be at loggerheads, another to see such personal attacks on someone who's never shown you any personal unkindness. I find it weird and disappointing.

Anyway, this has reminded me that I've got enough on my hands with Guardian commenters, and as I disagree so fundamentally with some of the points here, we could truly go on for days. So I really am leaving it now.

Take care,
Sali x

Pinot Thu 22-Nov-12 20:15:07


Sali is never gonna be my BFF now and send me freebies

<shakes fist>

BeerTricksPott3r Thu 22-Nov-12 20:15:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeerTricksPott3r Thu 22-Nov-12 20:16:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pinot Thu 22-Nov-12 20:18:13

I bought it once because Joanna Lumley <heart her> mentioned it. It really stinks sad I still love La Lumley though.

AllYoursBabooshka Thu 22-Nov-12 20:18:14

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BupcakesAndCunting Thu 22-Nov-12 20:26:19

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mantlepiece Thu 22-Nov-12 20:28:56

Yes India Knight does not help herself AT ALL.

Yes to "hoist by her own petard"!

TheCrackFox Thu 22-Nov-12 20:29:07

Astral is shit. Just wanted to put the record straight.

WelshMaenad Thu 22-Nov-12 20:31:08

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BupcakesAndCunting Thu 22-Nov-12 20:32:00

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BupcakesAndCunting Thu 22-Nov-12 20:32:37