to tell DP we are co-sleeping and if he doesn't like it he can sleep on the sofa (long)(202 Posts)
I want to co-sleep with DS 8mo DP doesn't. I want to put my foot down and tell him i'm bringing DS in with us if he doesn't like it he knows where the sofa is. I know that makes me sound like a total bitch but i can asure you i'm not, i've never put my foot down and demanded anything before i'm usually a bit of a people pleaser.
BUT DS is driving me to the point where i feel i am losing my mind. He has never been a good sleeper and has got worse as he gets older i have tried EVERYTHING to get him to sleep he just won't. A good night is 2 wakings the record for worst night (not counting teething and illness) is 9. Now that he's 8 months he's started to get seperation anxiety from me and the wakings are getting to every 1-2 hours just wanting me. He's lovely but even in the day very high needs.
I have now got to the stage i'm so tired i'm constantly upset, angry, weepy, i'm so forgetfull it becoming a problem in day to day life, i'm a shit friend constantly cancelling things (or forgetting them) because i want to try to sleep, i snap and DS and DN to much, and can't be bothered to do anything. The house is decending into a hovel but i just can't be bothered doing anything but the basics. I'm turning into this crazy woman i don't even know.
The last 2 nights i've brought DS from his cot into our bed at 11ish and have slept so much better sunday night he woke twice and needed resettled 2/3 times but i could settle him before he properly woke stopping it turning into an hour trying to get him back down, last night for the first time in his life he only woke once slept soundly until 7! I feel like i'm coming back to being a human being again i've managed to clean the house and be a fun mummy.
I want to keep going with bringing him in DP says no because then we have to try to get him to sleep alone when he's older and he knowss how tired i am but i should keep going. Well i say bullshit doing it one night a week then getting to sleep in til 12pm does not mean you know what it's like i need sleep for my sanity especially when i go back to work so DP will have to like it or lump it. I do see his point about then having to get DS back on his own at some point but to me that seems like the lesser of the 2 problems.
I'm kind of with DP on this one. Lots of people will disagree, but I think that once you start bringing the baby into your own bed on a regular basis, it's really hard to break the habit - you'll be making a rod for your own back.
I'm sorry it's not much comfort, but being extremely tired is par for the course with an 8 month old baby!
Stick at it, keep a routine, and DS will soon start sleeping better.
Sorry i should say DS has always came in with us from about 4/5am
I totally get why you want to cosleep, but you do need dp on side.
Regardless of whether co-sleeping is a good idea or not, I don't think it's a decision you can make without DH. What you can do is sit down with DH and discuss how together you will manage DS's night waking. Maybe that means DH gets up more at night, maybe it means he gets up with DS in the morning so you can lie in, maybe it means that you try some form of sleep training together.
Lola I brought DS in to cosleep at about 9 mo and I don't regret it. We set up the bed so there is a rail on one side where DS sleeps, I'm in the middle and DH on the other side. If DS is restless DH will sleep downstairs. DS sleeps much better and when he waked he is easier to settle. I feel like a new woman instead of a zombie. DS is now 16 mo and still cosleeps. We're moving soon and plan to try to get him into his own room then. DH may be worried about the intimacy . You may need to reassure him that you'll feel more if you can get some sleep.
DP doesnt want to get up at night if he's working so will only do one night and when i tried CC (which was a total failure) he moaned that DS kept him awake with all the crying and didn't want to help either. He's not usually so much of a shit but when it comes to getting up in the night he's no help even when it's his turn i have to shake and shout him awake by which point i'm so annoyed i can't get back to sleep anyway.
On this basis i feel if you don't want to help then i'll do it my way. DP has admitted he slept alot better the last 2 nights not having me constantly up and down.
I'm a believer in doing what suits. Everyone is different.
I never went in for co-sleeping, as I cannot sleep well with a child in the bed wriggling about and making me hot. I'd rather they slept in their own beds (unless ill).
I agree with your dh on this one I'm afraid. I think your time would be better spent establishing your baby's confidence in his own bed.
But I also understand you are on your knees....so it is a tricky one.
I agree with your DP but I understand how hard it is for you. x
lola i think you should do it. being tired eats into every part of you and your life - it colours everything. put the baby in with you, and tell dp what ginger said.
I would tell your Dp that if he wants DS in his own room then he has to het up in the night with him.
You could try shifts so you go to sleep with earplugs in till say 2.30am, then your Dp wakes you to deal with DS when he wakes up after that.
You can't go on as you are.
It's making you unwell and that's no good for any of you.
I'd tell your DP to sleep on the sofa.
He's also worrying needlessly, you don't see teenagers still sleeping in with their parents.
Right now your DS needs the reassurance of having you close. If having him in with you is making life easier, then do it. We coslept for a long while, and now DS sleeps in his own bed all night, no problems.
Do what it takes.
sleep deprivation is hell on earth . a year ago if somebody had told me that sleeping with DD in a coal bunker would guarantee a good night's sleep I'd have done it.
I'd do what I had to do and if that meant bringing DC into bed then so be it.
If DH doesn't want to help, he can sleep on the sofa
I understand that you must feel horrendous without proper sleep but (I should note that I am not pro-coleeping anyway) you need your DP on side to do it and it would be unfair to shove DP out of his own room. If you want it so badly you should move to DS's room.
I was told by my Outlaws that I was making a rod for my own back by co-sleeping with my children.
Weridly enough, at 15 and 13 they are no longer sleeping in my bed with me, and haven't done so since they went into their big bed (at about 3 I suppose).
They have never clambered into my bed after a nightmare, they never had trouble getting off to sleep in their own beds.
This is only my experience of co-sleeping though, and it was a wholly positive one for me.
I would usually say I agree with your DH and also that you cannot make that kind of decision unilaterally.
However, in circumstances where he is not doing his fair share or participating in finding a solution thats suits you both, YANBU in making a decision by yourself.
MsOnatopp: "If you want it so badly you should move to DS's room."
Seriously?! What, and the OP should sleep in the cot? On the floor?
If asked, I would have said that DS was, and always has been a good sleeper - yet by waking count he was worse than yours.
The difference is that we co-slept, so I almost always managed to get enough sleep, wasn't going crazy and could take the 3 or 4 feeds a night (until he was more than one!).
Sleep deprivation is torture - do what it takes to stop yourself going loopy.
DP was reluctant at first but has converted so far that he thinks we should just get another big mattress for DS's room, then sleep in whichever bed DS isn't in (DS is 2 now, and likes his space.. but also likes to snuggle to sleep).
I would co-sleep. If your dh wants him in the cot then he can get up and deal with him! As he isnt prepared to do that then you need to do what works for you and saves your sanity.
Co-sleeping does not mean you will end up with a child that wont sleep on their own and ime of four children (no 5 still co-sleeps) they have all gone into their iwn beds, in their own rooms fine, no tears etc they just made the transition as they were ready.
I would not like co-sleeping as it would keep me awake having baby right next to me.
However, we did bring DS1 into our room and have him right next to us in a cot for a whole year. Literally as if the cot was joined to our bed. It worked well because I think he knew we were there but not actually in our bed. If he woke we often found that just stretching out a hand so he could hold onto our thumb was enough to settle him. Much handier for feeding, changing, etc.
I really recommend this as a compromise.
I'm sorry you're going through it. DS has always been a bad sleeper and around 8 months it was awful. I dreaded the evenings, cried most mornings from sheer exhaustion and just wanted to curl up in bed and wake up several months later. Not helped by working full time and DH never helping in the night.
We started co-sleeping around 8 months. DS started in his cot but would come into bed with me once I started to crack in the night (that could be at 4am because I'd already gotten up 5 times or at midnight because I'd been up 30 minutes with him and he just would not go back to sleep).
DH would either sleep on the sofa or a blow-up mattress.
I was also told that I was making a rod for my own back but to be honest I was so exhausted I just did not care. It was far better to be lying down trying to comfort DS, even if I couldn't sleep, than being up and down all night with him.
So from 8 months to roughly 11 months DS would start the night in his cot but would end up spending part of the night with me.
At 11 months, when I was finally feeling more rested we gave his cot another go. We changed his bedtime routine (introduced a book between the last feed and being put in his cot) and he was put in his cot awake. First night he cried 30 minutes (but I stayed by his cot comforting him) but slept pretty well. By the third night he only whinged 10 minutes then fell asleep.
Within 2 weeks he was falling asleep in his cot with no crying and only waking once in the night (for a one minute BF then back down again no problem).
So, my experience is that co-sleeping can be a temporary solution (and one that really helped my exhaustion) and that going back into the cot afterwards needn't be a problem.
I know that we changed the bed routine etc. and DS accepted it but equally I know that at 8, 9 and 10 months it would not have worked as DS was particularly clingy at that time.
I hope you manage to get your DH on board. It's very frustrating when your DH won't help with the night wakings but also won't let you do what you feel is best (for you and your DS).
My DH wouldn't help at night (long story) and his only solution was leaving DS to cry and us moving into the lounge so we wouldn't hear him so well . Fortunately for me, he readily accepted me co-sleeping with DS and even refrained from complaining that the sofa was uncomfortable
Hmm I've never been a fan of co-sleeping, especially if it means dp has to sleep on the sofa! It's his house/bedroom too. And I wouldn't want to lose the intimacy as a couple either.
However, I have been lucky to have a good sleeper so my opinion dosent count. Do what's best for you and your family (including dp) being sleep deprived makes everything 10 x harder.
Although my ex's Dsis still has Dn in bed with her, he's 9 and she goes to bed with him at 7.30 and gets back up at 9.30pm (unless he wakes up then she has to pretend to go to sleep again) it's ridiculous!
Normally decisions shouldn't be made unilaterally. But I made every sleep decisions unilaterally with DD (after discussions with DH) because I was the one doing the bulk of the night wakings. He can't bow out and make the decisions. If he wants to be an equal partner and do half the night wakings, he can make half the decisions. At the moment he is making the decisions and you are suffering the consequences.
To me getting enough sleep is VITAL and being as tired as you describe, living in a hovel and turning into a crazy person is not at all a 'normal' part of life .
I would say if you are doing the majority of the child rearing then it's up to you. If DP is worried about losing sleep because he is not a cosleeper (how come his sleep is more important than yours???) then it's up to him to come up with a workable solution and dumping it all on you ain't it - that's just a nice solution for him. He can't even be thinking of his son, because the child obviously isnt happy, spending a lot of time waking and crying.
I co-slept with my DS and highly recommend it. My DS also had a bottle at night until he was 7. He also bathed with me until that age too.
I can assure you he doesn't still get in with me at 14
much to my upset
He is one of the most well adjusted, calm, content human beings I know.
personally if i were the only one giving care to the baby in the night, i would think i was the only one who was allowed an opinion.
i think you're totally right.
you can obviously spend some time explaining why you're doing what you're doing. but unless your DP wants to take over, he needs to leave the nighttime decisions to you.
sleep deprivation is so horrific, you need to get back to being yourself, hopefully your DP will see your happiness/togetherness increase and he will come around to the idea.
'you'll be making a rod for your own back.'
"Normally decisions shouldn't be made unilaterally. But I made every sleep decisions unilaterally with DD (after discussions with DH) because I was the one doing the bulk of the night wakings. He can't bow out and make the decisions. If he wants to be an equal partner and do half the night wakings, he can make half the decisions. At the moment he is making the decisions and you are suffering the consequences."
This. Spot on.
I co slept with my dd and she moved into a cot at about 14 months. She never gets into our bed in the night.
I would do it. Sleep deprivation is utter hell. It made me insane.
Why does the "D"H need to be onside?
It isn't him whose having to deal with sleepless nights. Unless he is willing to HELP in someway, I'd be inclined to tell him to F off.
OP just do whatever you need to get a proper nights sleep. I coslept with DD2, DH didn't care, as long as we were ALL sleeping, he was happy. And any loving patner should feel the same.
I really can't understand the kind of relationship where one is telling the other "I know co sleeping will mean you get a good nights sleep, but I don't like it, so don't do it" what kind of person does that?
I think this would be easier with your DP on board, and so I'd say YAB a little U - BUT my god you must be knackered, and at this stage anything is worth trying to get some sleep.
I second the suggestions above about getting one of the cots where you can take the side off and putting it next to your bed, so that your DS is next to you but your DP is less restricted in the bed, hopefully sleeping a bit better than if he was actually sharing the bed with the baby.
Do be careful that if you tell your DP to sleep on the sofa this might have repercussions for your relationship (only might, I don't want to sound like a harbinger of doom). But MrsPratchett is right, you do more (all?) of the night wakings so at the moment this is far more of your decision than it is your DPs.
What alternatives has your DH proposed since he doesn't want to co-sleep?
I wouldn't go so far as to say "tell your Dp that if he wants DS in his own room then he has to get up in the night with him."
even though that's what happeend in my family as I am a real bitch without enough sleep, but if he doesn't like the solution you like, he's got to come up with one you can accept and impliment as a couple.
Personally I think co-sleeping is a totally mad idea. That is my personal opinion. If it works for people and their partners then fine. It certainly wouldn't have worked for me. Couldn't you compromise and move the baby into your room but in his own cot. I think the decision about co-sleeping really does have to be a joint one.
I co sleep with mine and one of the reasons for this was that DD didn't sleep through a single night, ever, until she was 2 and I did all the night wakings.
I have never felt tiredness like it - to the point where the tiredness was damaging my relationship more than not sleeping in a bed together could and it was actually dangerous. I would nod off at random times during the day and didn't dare sit down. (Before I had DD I used to go out to work 6 days a week, leaving at 6am and not home until gone 10pm so it's not like I don't have a comparison to make, either)
I personally think you should ask your DH to take over more night time wakings - 3 days for him, 4 for you would be fairer or do it in shifts. If he says no then do whatever it takes to keep your sanity. If he isn't prepared to help you out then he doesn't deserve to have a say IMO. (I know I sound harsh!)
If its any help, DS was the opposite and slept through at 2 weeks and they both sleep soundly now unless ill or having bad dreams. Good job really as DC3 is on the way!
Cross posts about bedside cot - I have one and its a fantastic compromise.
I think it is more important for a child that its parents have a good, loving relationship than that it gets to sleep in the same bed as them.
"I think it is more important for a child that its parents have a good, loving relationship than that it gets to sleep in the same bed as them. "
I don't think the OP gives a shit about it being best for baby, she wants some sleep which she isn't getting at the moment and her husband isn't pulling his weight so IMO she gets to choose whatever helps her to sleep more.
YANBU - if DH has such a problem with cosleeping he needs to be part of the sleep solution.
We coslept - all three now sleep in their own beds quite happily ( they are 3yrs and up). There have been times when DH has lsept ont he sofa bed, in one of the older DC's beds when they are waking or when I have gone out to whichever bed. Whatever meant that we were all getting as much sleep as possible.
I'm with you, OP. That kind of tiredness is so debilitating and unless your DH is prepared to share the load at night, he needs to accept that you need to do whatever it takes to get some sleep.
If you are so tired that you cannot function, that will do your relationship no good whatsoever, especially if it's breeding resentment towards your husband for getting in the way of the one thing that would allow you to sleep.
Of course you should co-sleep
It is complete no-brainer in a situation like this when you are beginning to lose the ability to function during the day
2rebecca "I think it is more important for a child that its parents have a good, loving relationship than that it gets to sleep in the same bed as them."
They aren't going to have a "good, loving relationship" if the OP isn't getting any sleep are they? Tiredness is one of the main reasons couples don't have sex.
I started reading and thought you were being unreasonable, until I got to the part where you said your DH doesn't want to help. If he is not prepared to do anything to stop you feeling so utterly exhausted, then you need to do whatever works, and he will just have to live with it! It seems very unfair of him to expect you to struggle on like you have been, if you know there is a way you can get the sleep you need.
My sister started co sleeping with her 2nd child,.. She now has 4 children and 2 of them end up sleeping in her and her husband's bed every night.
She swore it was 'just until they didn't wake up at night'
The two who sleep in their bed are 6 years and 5 years old! I don't know how her husband puts up with it!
Whilst you are that tired I can't blame you for just taking the baby in with you. If your DH thinks its a bad idea,..he needs to pull his finger out and help you.
I have a similar issue with my 9mo and it is awful, especially now I'm back at work. I have the benefit of a supportive husband. It would give me the rage if he refused to help, moaned at attempts to improve the sleeping and tried to dictate how to do things when they have no impact on him and lots on you.
I find cosleeping helps my DD settle so I'm doing it. I'll deal with longer term consequences if there are any when I'm not so overcome by tiredness.
2rebecca - a relationship isn't going to be good if one person is so tired they can't function and the other person refuses to help in any way.
HA sex is a thing of the past now we had more when DS was a newborn i'm just to tired to waste my sleep time on that! We have a great relationship usually but it's all going down hill because i'm a grumpy moody shattered mess! Plus we have sex on the sofa anyway the walls are to think upstairs ;)
Baaartimaeus that is exactly what i was hoping to do.
I'm just going to bring him in if DP doesn't like it he can get up with DS or go downstairs to sleep though i do have the feeling when he gets the old me back and isn't woke by me getting up and down all night he might change his mind. I never wanted to co sleep but things change i didn't think 8 mo down the line i'd still be up a million times a night.
I do have to say he is a brilliant partner and father in all ways except sleep because ironicly he loves his sleep and hates to be woken so is shit with night time.
why cant you put a single bed in your childs room and co sleep in that?
That way no one needs to sleep on the sofa and hopefully everyone gets a good nights sleep in a bed.
Davsmum "I don't know how her husband puts up with it"
All these poor men having to put up with their patner's trying to get a good nights sleep!
Really, these women should know to put their Husbands needs and wishes before their need for sleep. Do women not know their place?
Quicklookbusy - did you miss the part where the children are 6 and 5..
My sisters two kids are 6 and 5!
They won't sleep in their own beds because they don't have to !
My sister isn't trying to get a good nights sleep - she wants the kids in bed with her and cannot be bothered to get them to sleep in their own bed.
Why the hell should a man have to put up with that for all these years? They are not babies.
She wants the kids in her bed - what is wrong with that? A lot of families co sleep until the kids decide they don't want to any more. If they are happy with it, then really, what's the problem.
I also did not want to co-sleep but you do what you have to to survive (literally! )
It was interesting (in hindsight) that for several months DS slept really badly and it was when he was learning to crawl and walk (walked at 10months) so would spend the entire night rolling around. In his cot he hit the bars so woke up, but in our big bed he had more space so didn't wake up so much. I just made sure he couldn't fall out by building walls around our mattress with spare duvets.
There was even a couple of "aww" moments through the mist of tiredness when Ds would roll around the bed (whilst asleep) and end up cuddling against my ankles .
meant I wouldn't move for fear of waking him though
oh and if you put a single bed in your DS' room make your DH sleep on it. You'l need more space for co-sleeping (if you have a roller like me)
She wants the kids in her bed - what is wrong with that? A lot of families co sleep until the kids decide they don't want to any more. If they are happy with it, then really, what's the problem
If my partner wanted our kids of ages 6 and 5 in bed with us everynight there would be a big problem.
Ghost but what if both parents are happy with it?
Her husband isn't happy with it.
They don't get a good nights sleep. Her 6 year old is the size of a 10 year old.
4 of them in a double bed... not ideal.
Its all about her and what she wants - so sod her husband?
I doubt there are many men who really want that situation,.. they tolerate it because they have wives who cannot move on from their children being babies.
I am not against co-sleeping - but a woman who just ignores her partner and dictates what will happen when her kids are that big is selfish.
I so sympathise and understand how crushing lack of sleep can be, but I'm afraid I agree with your DP. Remember it is his son and his bed too! Surely he gets some say in what goes on.
Davsmum ok but it he's not happy then it's a problem they need to sort out between themselves.
No point in derailing an OP who would like to co-sleep temporarily in order to starve off collapsing from exhaustion!
And it is possible to co-sleep temporarily. We did. And at no point did DS try to come into our bed once he was put back in his cot. Because he'd gotten past the clingy stage and I had found new energy to get up to him in the night.
Well Ghostship, it might be a problem to you, it isn't to other people. Every family is different.
As it happens I wouldn't want my 6 and 5 year old in bed with me, my DD went in a room with her sister at 2 and a half. However my Dsis had her dc in bed for a very long time, due to her DD1 dying during birth. Her DH was very happy with this as it happens. They liked co sleeping, they wanted to know they were ok during the night. I would never judge anyone for co sleeping. There are often very valid reasons.
I have now got to the stage i'm so tired i'm constantly upset, angry, weepy, i'm so forgetfull it becoming a problem in day to day life, i'm a shit friend constantly cancelling things (or forgetting them) because i want to try to sleep, i snap and DS and DN to much, and can't be bothered to do anything. The house is decending into a hovel but i just can't be bothered doing anything but the basics. I'm turning into this crazy woman i don't even know.
This is the kind of tiredness that kills. If co-sleeping means sleep, co-sleep.
Sometimes, you must think about your needs now and not hypothetical problems in four years' time.
So who derailed the OP ?
I said I don't blame her taking the baby in with her and that her husband needs to pull his finger out and help if he doesn't like it !!
"Remember it is his son and his bed too! "
Right so the OP has to do everything her DH says? Even though she's the one getting up every single night? She's the one crying from exhaustion but she has to do what DH says because it's his bed?
A single bed in the babys room isn't much of an option our house is tiny the 'big room can fit a double bed and set of drawers the cot won't fit unless against the cupboard (we need that is only storage apart from drawers) and if we got a single bed in the other room we would have to get rid of DS brand new cotbed and drawers to fit it in. TBH we don't have the money to buy new things/get rid of things.
I've tried to just get on with it for months but it's effecting me to the point my mum and gran sat me down to ask if i thought i had PND, i'm not doing it out of selfishness i'm doing what i think is best for myself my son and DP in the long run. Having to come home to me either upset angry or just not interested in anything can not be fun for him. DP can be very closed to new ideas a lot of the time he often needs to see results before he will accept anything new. On the note i'm off to finish cleaning and stick some slap on before he comes home
Baaartimaeus then thats brilliant, but in the case we're talking about here they both aren't happy with it.
quicklookbusy yes but it is a problem, they're both not happy with it.
At first I was going to say that YABU, but now I see that your DH does nothing to help.Sorry but there are TWO parents in this household, so therefore two should share the sleeping issue.
Tell him to Man Up and grow a pair, and state its co-sleeping or he can get up during night.
I think your DP may need a good shake.
Baaartimaeus, the OP asked for opinions. That is my opinion. I don't think she has the right to dictate what will happen if her husband is not happy with the situation. I think they have to reach some sort of compromise.
OP do what you need to do. This separation anxiety stage can last a while, but they do start sorting themselves out.
DS couldn't co-sleep with me but now co-sleeps with DH and he brings him through for feeds. He still woke 2 hours for a few weeks with feeds at 3/4 hours but has had a few nights of going 6/7 hours and normally sleeping at least 3/4 hours by himself first.
If you want a independent baby you don't do it by forcing them, you give a secure attachment and let them learn you will be there.
Sometimes sleep training and even CC/CIO can be required, but it comes with a price and there is a right time for every baby. For some it might be 8 months for others 16 months.
DD was a every 2 hour feeder, she stopped.
On the note i'm off to finish cleaning and stick some slap on before he comes home
please tell me this is because you're going out for dinner, not because you need makeup on to great him?
Finish cleaning and put make up on? Hope this is because you've got plans, not because he expects it from you.
Sorry davsmum I felt that talking about older kids wasn't helpful as this is an OP about a baby going through a clingy stage and not sleeping. Might have mis-read.
I guess it's a subject close to my heart as I've been criticised quite a lot in RL about co-sleeping with DS (being told my poor husband etc. and what about when the children are older / rod for own back ) when we've found it helped me and DS is now back in his cot all night.
Ghostship it was a wee joke since i'm feeling human again
I might smile at him tonight when he comes home if he's lucky :P
DH has already said that we are not co-sleeping, when our PFB arrives. I decided he was the one that had to be up at 6am for work, and he doesn't think he would sleep properly, out of concern he suffocates the baby. It fulls him with fear.
I think it needs to be a joint decision. Sorry.
definately smile as you offer him the choice of co sleeping or being the one to do all the nights, all the time from now on
Oohlaalaa, the baby doesn't have to be next to the H, so there is not a chance he could smother the baby.
Most babies sleep next to the mum, with the mum in the middle of the bed.
Dp wasn't against co-sleeping, but probably wouldn't have gone down that route if i hadn't wanted to. I wanted to because it was the only way I got any sleep. It was ok for the first 6 months, but as dd got bigger she disturbed dp more. He wanted to stop co-sleeping and I didn't, partially because dd was a terrible sleeper, and partially because I liked co-sleeping.
In the end we put a double futon in dd's room and I slept there with dd while dp stayed in our room. I know a lot of people would say this is bad for your relationship, but it worked for us, and now dd's 17 months we're back in together.
Oh I co-slept with all 3 of my children - worked well and they all moved into their own beds by 18 months at the very latest.
I think getting more sleep is the most important thing at the moment for you. Can't say my DH was at all impacted by babies in our bed - I did have a bedside cot though which gave the illusion of more space I guess.
I'm afraid I agree with your DH on this one. Once you start them sleeping with you, it's a very slippery slope. And, for every parent who co-slept with ease, and then 3 years later, had a 3 year old who merrily chose to suddenly sleep in their own bed...there are parents whose relationship has been severely damaged, there's loads of resentment bubbling away, and they've been trying (very unsuccessfully) to get their 3 year to sleep alone - leading to endless stress, and distrubed sleep for everyone.
Feeling exhausted, and like you're running on empty, just goes with the territory with an 8 month old baby.
My DDs were only born 53 weeks apart, so I have been there, worn the t-shirt, and dry retched at 4am through sheer exhaustion.
But, persevering with getting them to sleep alone, really is short term pain for long term gain.
I don't know anyone whose co-slept whose had long term sleep problems with their children or destroyed relationships.
My relationship has always been much happier when I'm getting some sleep.
For every person who has a damaged relationship and terrible non-sleeping 3 year olds, there's the people who it did work for.
So what's your point? That it's a crap shoot? And co-sleeping works for some families but not for others? Well, of course.
The OP is so exhausted thet her family are starting to wonder if she's suffering from PND, surely co-sleeping (even if it's temporary) will eleveate the very real possibility of the OP becoming ill?
If the OP wants to go ahead and co-sleep, then of course she should. So long as she is fully aware that it can be a very, very sharp double-edged sword - that can cure with one stroke, but also cut with the other.
So do you think the DH should be helping with nights then? Or that the OP should just run herself completely into the floor - because we all must become martyrs to motherhood!
There are some babies that just won't sleep - alone or otherwise. I tried every damned thing going with ds1, even controlled crying. Believe me, absolutely nothing worked except bringing him into bed with me.
Years later, I find out he is tongue tied and suffering from sleep apnoea. I'm very glad that I didn't leave him to sleep alone.
He finally started sleeping through when he started school.
Do what you have to do OP
Not necessarily Ffion though I took the view that whilst I was on ML, taking care of the DDs was my new job, so to speak.
DH was pretty hands on, and at crisis times it was all hands to the pumps. But, I expected to be the CEO, and didn't expect loads of help from him. Just like he didn't expect me to rock up at his offices and help him out.
I know of one relationship where the woman went against her "D"Hs "wishes" and it led to divorce.
She was better off without him, he was a selfish tosser who refused to help at all at nights, even though she was also working. He was a knob.
Surely co-sleeping isn't the only option? how long did you try CC for? sleeping on the sofa is hardly ideal for someone in the long term.
I can only tell you my own experience and that is that co-sleeping has been a godsend for me, a wholly positive experience. I had to go back to work full time quite early on and just couldnt have coped with that amount of broken sleep every night. As youve found, if they wake in the night when you co-sleep its so easy to setlle them quickly. I have to say that my DH was in agreement though, I do think you should try talking to your DH again and stressing how bad you feel
Oh and all this rod for your own back shit, god I wish Id had a pound for every time Id heard that. I think it comes from a place of ignorance and I just completely ignore. I love waking up and seeing my dd sleeping peacefully beside me, it really is priceless
And for the record, all this talk of ruining relationships, you can actually have sex in places other than your bed with the lights off
Meant to add, this man who was a friend off DH, seriously felt upset that this baby was having an effect on the amount of "quality" time he spent with his wife. Wtf did he expect, especially as he didn't ever do anything with HIS child.
Oohlaalaa, just to warn you, getting up at 6 is a serious lie in with a newborn. I remember nights with both of my DDs when they were up from 0130 or 0200 until DH got up for work. That is not a joke. Desperate times call for desperate measures OP!
I think you need to get the sleep thing sorted first. Talk to DP and get him to help you out. DS should be able to sleep more often than 1-2 hours and it is in his best interests to get this dealt with.
I would go to your GP or HV to talk to them about it - they may help you get to the bottom of what's going on - he may have a genuine medical problem. At 8 months dcs need more calories - is he getting enough during the day? Is there anything that wakes him? Noise? Could it be particularly painful teething?
Don't get grumpy with DP, he's probably as tired and drained as you are and I'm sure you can sort it out together.
Do you take turns in dealing with his wake ups? It might be easier if you take yourself to the sofa and leave DS in bed with DP.
I co-slept with all of mine too - I can't do without sleep.
I really do sympathise, a friend of mine has a 4yr old DD and a 3yr old DS and neither have slept all night in their own bed EVER! Said friend got so desperate she rang the HV and begged for help and the HV has been amazing, both children after 5 weeks are sleeping in their own beds, DS waking only once but staying in bed to wait for mummy to tuck him back in and DD sleeping right through. Is your HV approachable? Maybe it would take someone not exhausted at the end of their rope to be able to see a solution, it often helps to have an outside perspective. IMO the most important thing is for your hubby to give you some support, good luck hope you find a solution
Get a saw and cut the side off his cot and push it up to your side of the bed , find a way to wedge it in place, maybe between a wall and your bed.That way you can cuddle him when he needs it and push him back into his space once he's asleep. Tell Dh its not for always, everything passes but at the moment you need to sleep!
Some kids are more work than others , My first ds left me totally exhausted he was such high maintenance and I ended up doing this with his cot.
OP, this sounds like me and my DS to a tee!
Co-sleeping saved my sanity. No exaggeration.
You need your sleep, DP will survive. Anyone told you you're 'making a rod for your own back' yet? Don't worry, they will. Along with ''if you don't leave baby to scream himself to sleep he will never learn how to sleep blah blah.'
Ignore them. Do you know any adults who can only sleep in their parents' bed? Thought not. Just get on top of the sleep and then you will be so much better equipped to do any changes or try other arrangements when you feel it is right.
Op- if co sleeping is what you need to do in order to function then go for it. A reasonable conversation about your husbands contribution at night is best but If he's unwilling to help with his child then it's not his choice to make. As posters have said before, children grow out of co sleeping, you can manage that how you choose, you're not making this choice lightly and obviously are ill with exhaustion. An ill mum both physically and mentally won't be any use to help.
Do what you need to, as long as you're doing it safely then you'll be healthier for it.
oohlaalaa that is exactly what we said before DS was born and we have stuck to it until now. Things with babies don't always work out how you plan.
I've been to the docs and HV they don't think anything is wrong with him i have no idea why he wakes there seems to be no reason for it at all. I tried CC for 2 weeks and it just did not work for me DS screamed for hours becoming more and more upset i also found it very hard it felt wrong to me.
I feel that bringing DS in with us is the only way that will work for us
I would do whatever it takes to stay sane. I co slept with dc until they were 11 months old. If your dh cant help with night time then it is unfair of him to expect you to get no sleep at all.
Ds (20mths - also a bit pants at the sleeping game) and I sleep on a kingsize mattress on his bedroom floor - you could pick up a cheap mattress? Then avoids falling out of bed and keeps the living room free of the inevitable mess of dp living downstairs. Yes ds room is a bed but at least he Oscar getting used to that as his bedroom and will eventually turn unused cot into toddler bed and coax ds in to it.
Can't believe some posters are advocating leaving a child to cry instead of both getting a good nights sleep. God forbid a baby actually being a baby and, you know, needing their parents to look after them
I'd tell your dh to piss off to the sofa myself. I think he's totally underestimating the effect of a bad night's sleep. Mulitply that by 8 months worth of bad night's and then it's completely understandable that you would do anything to get some more sleep.
Perhaps he should do one night and see.
And anyway 8 months is too young for sleep training.
I co sleep with my very clingy 5 month old (also bad during the day) and I completely understand why you would do it. if it actually improves your nights, then it's a no-brainer as far I can see.
ScaredySquirrel he does one night at the weekend BUT then i get up in the morning, still he seems to think this makes him know how tired i must be.
He's just been told straight it's happening
Your DP either needs to come up with a better solution that allows you to get an adequate amount of sleep and doesn't result in endless crying, or he needs to accept co-sleeping.
And to those who think it's not "normal" for an 8 month old to wake every 1-2 hours - it is normal for some. It's not great from the parents' perspective, but it is normal i.e. it doesn't mean there's something wrong.
Good luck Lola, I co-sleep and it means I can survive! Tbh i'm still knackered, but much less knackered than I would be if I had to actually get up. Some babies just need their mum a lot in the night. There are several gentle methods for trying to help your baby sleep for longer once you're cosleeping, which you might want to look at when your DS is a bit older if he's still very wakeful.
8 months is the perfect age for sleep training for lots of babies.
They eat/drink enough during the day for the parent to know they do not need a night feed, after the 10/11pm one.
I am with your DH, in a way, but my sympathy is with you, if that makes sense!
The only two friends I have who co slept ended up with their 2 and 4 year olds still in the bed, and the sex life out of the window (and not just sex, but just that bit of couple time), and the husbands massively resentful, yet, I think they patched it up eventually. But it led to the husbands feeling unloved and unwanted.
FWIW, I think that your DH should help out more at night, and THEN he can have a say.
It might seem like the answer right now but what about long term?
What will you do if he doesn't want to go in his own cot/bed?
I think have to take your DP's thoughts into consideration.
I would not be able to sleep with a wriggling baby every night.
On the co-sleeping and DHs feeling unwanted - you can still snuggle with your husband in bed if the child is on one side! And many co-sleeping families start the night with the baby in a cot which may well be in a separate room, so parents have the first part of the night on their own in any case. Not trying to argue with you Chandon but saying there are various ways of doing it that can make it work for both partners.
I would give him a choice:
1 he can do the nights his way
2 you can do the nights your way
He can't force you to do all the night waking and then refuse to let you make decisions about what works best.
The only rod anyone makes for their back is having to listen to people using that bloody stupid expression just because they're choosing to give a baby what he/ she needs
Of course babies want to sleep close to their source of food, warmth and protection. Millions of years of evolution have programmed them to want that and fgs, if your dp isn't mature enough to cope with sleeping on his own how/ why does he think a defenceless baby should be able to? Babies don't know they are safe and their parents will return, how could they know that?
Am now hiding this thread. Sleep training makes me sick. Babies do not 'learn to self settle' they learn that there is no point in crying and that no one cares to comfort them. Sorry op that your dp is being selfish and immature.
mummysmells, that is not how I sleeptrained.
I guess there are many ways. For me sleeptraining involved me going in, but not feeding him (other than offering water). Just to get used to 6-8 hours of no milk/food during the night. Once I swapped milk for water at night feeds, they weren't bothered and slept through. This was around 8 months old. I would also go in and comfort, but not for hours and hours.
I think it is possible to sleeptrain gently, and bit by bit. It is not about harsh parenting.
I really can sympathise with extreme exhaustion. When the DDs used to wake in the early hours, I would have to dry retch in the loo before going to them, I was so shattered.
But, I think you need to think long and hard about co-sleeping. Don't just snatch at it, as a quick fix, no matter how desperate you might feel. It might solve the now, but end up causing you more problems in the future.
And, it's important to consider everyone's needs in the family. Babies are incredibly important, but so is everyone else in the family, too.
I think this type of 'Feck off out of it DH, if you can't see it my way', attitude can be dangerous. Months down the line, you might be getting more sleep - but at the expense of your relationship.
I did similar to Chandon. I sleep trained DD1 at 9 months, because I was already heavily pregnant with DD2 (!!) and I had to get her sleeping through 7-7 before the next baby arrived!
When she cried, I went into her, but kept it very low key, no lights on, no eye-contact, quick rub of her back and stroke her head, then straight back out. It was pretty dull for her.
Plus, I could tell the difference between genuine 'I'm really quite upset here' crying, and sleepy 'I'm almost dropping off...nearly...nearly....' type grumblings.
I really have thought about it for 8 long months i've thought about it it is not just an idea thats popped into my mind.
I've told DP i'm doing it if i need to and i must deal with todays problem before worrying about problems that might possibly come up down the line, i certainly don't have a Feck off out of it attitude with DP i've done it his way for the last month and it doesn't work. If our relationship can stand 8 months of non sleeping and me being so tired i go to bed instead of spendiing time with him then i'd hope it can stand a while of DS being in our bed.
I can't stand the thought of any more sleep training just now i'm to tired to fight with DS maybe once he's sleeping better and i don't feel so down i will have better luck with it.
The early months and years with your baby are so precious and so fleeting. You don't want them to pass you by because you were in the thick fog of sleep-deprivation. It's miserable.
Besides, if it is right for you, co-sleeping with your little one feels very special. Our DD co-slept with me until she was about 13 months old then we transitioned her into her cot by sleeping on a mattress in her room for a while. She is now 19 mths old and sleeps through the night in her own cot. I miss her in bed but have a newborn so can't co-sleep with them both at the moment as DS would wake DD too often.
During the time that she co-slept with me, DP slept on the sofa during the week and with us at weekends. When he slept on the sofa he got to stay up late watching TV knowing that he'd get a good nights sleep and that I wouldn't be such a mardy cow in the morning coz I'd have got a better nights sleep too. At weekends he would take her downstairs in the morning so I could have a lie in.
I'm sorry but I think your DP is being a bit shitty about this. Do it your way. After all, you are the main care-giver and besides the needs of your child should come first.
If you need a bit of reassurance about co-sleeping visit the Dr Sears website. It's heartwarming stuff.
From the OP "*I have now got to the stage i'm so tired i'm constantly upset, angry, weepy, i'm so forgetfull it becoming a problem in day to day life, i'm a shit friend constantly cancelling things (or forgetting them) because i want to try to sleep, i snap and DS and DN to much, and can't be bothered to do anything. The house is decending into a hovel but i just can't be bothered doing anything but the basics. I'm turning into this crazy woman i don't even know.*"
This person NEEDS to get some sleep. Ignoring that need, in favour of her Hs preferences is ridiculous.
Her H should be trying to make her life easier, either by helping at nights or agreeing with how his wife wants to do the nights. If he chooses not to support his wife in any way, he is a selfish arse and I'm afraid it is time for the OP just to get on with things.
I am a big fan of co-sleeping. I have a 2yr old and 3.11yr old.
A few points:
1. Why does your dh have to sleep on the sofa just because there is a baby in the bed? My dh has never done this in the nearly 4yrs of doing this. We have a normal double and baby sleeps between me and bed guard. I'd have thought your dh would be more disturbed with an unsettled dc waking up and crying every 2hrs than having a baby in the bed.
2. Our dcs start off in cots and come to our bed around midnight. Our sex life is great. I don't suffer from sleep deprivation even though dd still wakes up at night. If Iam tired there will be no sex.
3. They sleep on their own through the night eventually. It happened with my ds shortly after 3yrs.
4. Perhaps I biased as I absolutely love co-sleeping. Personally for me it is one oftofthe best things about being a parent . Luckily dh hasn't any complains either.
Just do it, do whatever it takes to get some sleep.
Think of it as something you are doing for a bit to get some sleep.
Present it as such to your partner.
Then get some sleep. All of you sound desperate for it.
Babies change so fast. You can have another crack at settling him in his cot in a few weeks, try again a fortnight after that if it doesn't work out.
At 8 months they are just starting to eat food but still filling up on milk.
You might find in a month's time once he's got some protein and carbs and a banana or porridge down him, pre bedtime, that he sleeps much better.
Or he might be crap like my DS who only slept through at 17 months old.
You could compromise by starting him off in his cot and then moving him in with you if and when he wakes.
Elizabeth Pantley wrote a very good book called The No Cry Sleep Slution which you might find reassuring.
Lola88, good for you, I'm sure your H will see a big difference in you, once you get a few good nights sleep and understand why you are co sleeping.
Sleep tight tonight
He doesn't need to sleep on the sofa
but he can piss of there if he doesn't want to sleep with us he can sleep with us, he's even admitted that he slept well the last 2 nights DS was in with us.
Well then he's just being a tit and will get used to it
There's a lot of negative
bollocks thought surrounded co-sleeping, but it is a life saver for a lot of people. And even when its not, a lot of families enjoy it.
Get a good nights sleep.
Please just do it. We co- slept with DS1 ( it wasn't called that in those days ). He is now 20 and absolutely fine emotionally and physically.
My advice is listen to your instincts and you won't go far wrong.
DS1 was in own bed by age 3 and has always been a great sleeper.
DS2 never wanted/ needed to co- sleep and was a happy bunny for most of his early years.
Like maddening we do the crack-den solution. mattress on the floor in DDs room. I start the night with DH, then get in with DD when she cries. That way we can get a bit amorous/have a cuddle if we fancy it, and I can also give DD what she wants. Only loser is me playing musical beds really, but like you, OP, I do every single nightwaking so it's my way or the highway.
Do whatever you need to get some sleep, tell your dp from me to do one
Whilst getting enough sleep is vital I don't think with an 8 month old baby co-sleeping is the answer.
I agree with your DP though - if you want to co-sleep go and sleep in your DS's room.
By 8 months your DS should be able to settle himself, you need to work out how to teach him to do this.
But wouldn't it be better for the op to catch up on sleep before starting sleep training?
OP, first off, my sympathies.
My DS 2 was like yours. He was like it for 18 months. I am going to tell you a horrible story about how I didn't do the co-sleeping as much as I should have done because of DH's objections.
One cold winter's night when DS 2 was about 8/9 months old, after months of broken nights, he woke me. For the ninth or tenth time that night. I sat down with him in the nursing chair (if you have one of those, burn it. Don't use it at length at night) and I shook him in my arms I was so mad.
Immediately he started laughing, like I was playing and jostling him. I stopped straight away, no harm done, before it got violent enough to cause harm. When he started laughing, I got the "What the fuck am I doing?" thing.
No harm done, but I knew how close I came. That was my darkest moment and I still remember it. I am very honest about it. DH doesn't like me to talk about it
as, understandably, it upsets him. It still upsets me thinking about it.
When things get near this point, it is safer to co-sleep OP. So if your DP won't pull his finger out at night time, co-sleep. It is tough shit. He cannot say "I won't/don't want to help at night, but you must do it my way and not co-sleep". Bollocks to that: when we we regress back to the 50's?
As for the "making a rod for your own back" crew, a 2 or three year old will be far more robust if you find you have to reaclimatise them to their own bed and you will have a clear head.
What do you do usually when he wakes up? Do you leave him to cry at all? Even for 5mins? Is he teething? Does he nap well during the day?
All of these things I think contribute to how well a baby sleeps at night.
I am not a fan of cosleeping and if your dp isn't keen I would look at alternatives.
Have you got a daytime/bedtime routine?
At this age my dd had a very set bedtime routine, was put into her cot sleepy but awake and left to self settle, if she cried I would pop back in 10 min intervals to reassure. If she then woke in the night I would leave for 5mins, offer water, change her nappy (she has always hated feeling wet!) if she still wouldn't settle I would assume her teeth were bothering her and give her some teething powder.
Obviously some nights were better than others but on the whole dd was and still is (age 6yo) a good sleeper.
Personally I can't stand co-sleeping but if it works for you and your ds and your dh isn't prepared to help with the nights then I'd say YANBU.
I'd try the cot next to you, when he's bigger he can always have a mattress on the floor.
BobblyGussets thank you so much for telling me that, i have to admit the thing thats made me give into co sleeping is havin the hurt to throw DS away on sat night actually chuck him at the wall. I am so ashamed it was a split second thing that flitted through my mind. I feel so guilty about it i didn't tell DP but have told him earlier when i explained i want DS in with me i think that swung it for him realising how bad i feel.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
My (ex)P was totally against co sleeping, he insisted ds would sleep in his own coat etc. I was breast feeding and up every hour in the night, even when ds didn't need feeding P refused to get up and do anything at all. I was exhausted, resentful, and decided that I was co sleeping and that was that - if P had made any effort to help in the night then I may have taken his opinion into account. Co sleeping for me has been wonderful, ds is 16 months now and I love snuggling up with him, he is like a baby koala bear wrapping his little arms around me and giving me kisses. Babies grow so quickly, I wanted to enjoy every second of it not resent it and be desperate for it to end.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I agree with those that have made the point that if your husband refuses to get involved at all at night, then he doesn't get to call the shots. It's all very well being on your high horse when you are getting a full night's sleep! If he wants to make decisions about how little sleep you are getting, then he needs to get off his arse.
I thought that I would say YABU, but having read that he doesnt do a damn thing, I think that YANBU, and this is as a confirmed "everyone in their own beds" mother!
If he refuses to help, refuses to support your sleep training and leaves it all to you then he has no right to impose his wants on your sleep decisions. When he steps up and is prepared to get up in the night then, and only then, can he have his opinion taken into account.
He knows where the sofa is.
Oh, I am glad it helped OP. I was expecting a flaming for being a near murderous witch, but well, safety first eh?
This is not about what you prefer/fancy. Sometimes it is about coming through unscathed. It sounds like you are doing really well at explaining to your DP and getting him on board too, which is not easy when the lack of sleep has dulled the brain. Well done Lola.
has my daughter been on this thread yet? she loves 'rod for your own back' comments.
she says 'yes, here i am, the rod my mum made for her own back!' she is my joy, and my greatest blessing.
nothing, nothing you can do to meet the needs of your baby is making a rod for your back or anyone else's.
co-sleep -with all the necessary protections like not drinking alcohol, keeping the bed safe for the baby etc. meet your baby's needs.
First off poor you. I remember the sleepless nights and frankly it wa hell, so I totally understand where you're coming from. But I do think yabu to expect DP to have a restless baby in bed all night. I also think yabu to expect this of yourself!
What worked for me was controlled crying a la Gina Ford. I went from a baby not settling to a truly contented baby. She now asks me to go to bed! It's what worked for me and so many other mums I know. I would suggest a night or 2 more of co-sleeping to get your brain rested, get reading GF's book and start as you mean to go on. Whichever route you choose, I wish you a heartfelt good luck
Baby She tried CC and her DP complained about the baby disturbing him while he was sleeping!
OP, I was going to say YABU until I actually read the thread, your DP doesn't want to help to make his life easier and doesn't want to have the baby in the bed to make his life easier.
Where do you come into all of this? You have been and gone past breaking point, if this is the only way to fix it then so be it but be prepared for some major fall outs with your DP if he is really very against it.
I'm with Bobbly Gussets, do whatever the hell you need to do to get yourself and your ds safe. My ds was such an awful sleeper (broken nights plus waking really early for the day,) that even with a very supportive dh, I nearly came to an awful end A FEW times, because I was so exhausted. I nearly crashed the car once with the kids inside and I developed severe enough PND that I two half hearted attempts to take my own life. He's 22 mos now and a much better sleeper, but I'm still suffering the effects of the PND. I'm on meds and getting counselling which is helping, but it's a long old road.
I have no time for "d"h's who don't pull their weight with the kids. Even if he works full time and you're a sahm, parenting should be 50/50 when he's home, no ifs, ands or buts about it.
I wish you the best of luck OP. I sincerely hope you get a good nights rest tonight.
Hi op, no you are unreasonable as you are totally knackered.
I was like you and would have hurt my ds1 if I hadn't done controlled crying( it only works if you are at the end if your tether as I was).so please ignore posters who say it doesn't work as it does.
Just catching up on the thread -
Oh yes, look, those 'rod for your own back' comments are flying like confetti! Yawn.
I am BOGGLING at those posters who think that the OP making her husband sleep elsewhere for part of the night is going to be a deathknell for the relationship.
Because clearly having a wife who is 'constantly upset, angry, weepy', feels like she's going crazy and snaps at partner and son must be a source of marital delight and harmony. I mean, the constant sex must be AMAZING apart from anything else.
I hope things improve for you OP, and if co-sleeping helps you mend, then great.
Oh, and if you tried CC for 2 weeks, and it didn't work and you hated it -
You've given it a go. It didn't work, so you are sensibly trying something else. I think you have a very good idea of where you are and what you need.
I found controlled comforting worked with my
pita difficult sleeper. She started crying, I would pick her up give her a cuddle, put her her back down and leave and then when she cried I would do the same again. After a while she realised that I wouldnt play, feed her or get her up, so she stopped waking.
But as I said above, if he wont do a bloody thing to help then he doesnt get to dictate how you deal with it.
would he prefer you crash the car because you are too tired to concentrate...
or get distracted and leave something on the cooker to catch fire as you are so tired?
make mistakes with ds's care and safety?
you do what you need to do to survive. if he does not like co-sleeping, he needs to share the load of getting up in the night at least twice a week and giving youlie ins/sleep time at the weekend to make up for night wakings. he also needs to take on more of the care of the house so you can catch up on sleep in the day. he can not have it all ways. you will be ill, then he will have to do everything.
the relationship is already suffering due to lack of sleep and resentment at being awake when you could have a solution will build up. ok so his resentment may build up co-sleeping but unless he can come up with an alternative to get you some more sleep then tough. it will be a lot tougher if you have an accident..
I'm with you, OP. Sleep is absolutely fundamental to everything. Some babies just DO sleep better in with someone else. Unless you dh is prepared to take on the nights, then it's your call.
I co-slept from the start with dc2, having had such a miserable time whilst trying not to co-sleep with dc1. Absolute best decision I made.
I don't buy the 'oh they'll have to sleep in their own beds at some point' argument tbh. Yes, of course they will. Either when they're ready or old enough to respond to bribery or the like . Babies learn to walk by themselves at some point, but no-one suggests that you don't carry them when they need it.
Good luck. Hope that ds carries on sleeping better and that you start feeling yourself again.
dd would wake in the night, she would co-sleep with us on top of the duvet so as not to get too hot. i got a lot more sleep that way... we had to put her in her own room at about 20 months as a new baby was on the way. (couldn't do that before as the roof leaked and we had to wait for the freeholder to fix it)
it took a while to withdraw gradually from her room. but by the time baby was here she was sleeping by herself and is now fantastic at getting to sleep and staying asleep all night despite people telling us she would neve sleep on her own and that we would have to do controlled crying at some point..
our dr was very focussed on needing to look after mum as well as baby. mums health is crucial. you dp is not taking that into account. you have to look after you too.
Either bring baby in to your bed all night or not at all. If you currently only bring baby in after 5am, then of course baby won't settle otherwise- he will want in with you. Babies can't tell the time and won't understand why sometimes when he cries he gets in with you, others not!
laqueen you say that it's important to consider the needs of the whole family, but its clear that the OP's husband isn't considering her needs at all.
I havent read the whole thread but your OP really struck a chord with me. My DD2 was exactly the same, by the time she was 9mo old she woke every 40 mins for a quick soothe or feed at night, I was beyond desperate with a DD who was 15 mo older to deal with as well so no daytime napping. I actually fell asleep driving the car when stopped at a red light, I feel so ashamed to admit that
I lost the plot completely after the car incident and told a, pretty much oblivious DH at this point, that I was going to bed and my EBF baby was his responsibility to bottle feed with BM & soothe through the night or else it was divorce courts. Amazingly enough after a night of howling from DD2 and DH, DD2 actually slept on the 2nd night for around 5 or 6 hours!
I do not recommend "mad woman losing it sleep training" but I do gently suggest trying my approach if all else fails...
huge unmumsnetty hugs, I've been there and it is awful X
should have added that i co-slept up until i put DH in charge... sometimes mum needs a break regardless of who is sleeping where
My Dsd was a bad sleeper and co slept with her mom. At 7 she still insists on sleeping with Dh and I. And she still sleeps with her mom.
I am expecting in December, and I don't see all 4 of us co-sleeping.
So my Ds will likely not be in the bed, but next to us, and Dsd WILL be in the bed. Hows that for messed up?
Actually, I'll probably send Dh and DSd to go sleep in her bed together.
I co slept with dd from younger than 8 months in and off until she was 2.5 when she went angelicly in to her own bed and hasn't been back. Rod - back - whatever!!!
If your dp is knowingly depriving you of sleep that's a much bigger issue and is downright selfish.
you're confusing that poor baby by putting it in different beds all the time, sometimes with you, sometimes without you. Sometimes coming in when he's crying, sometimes not. Whatever you choose to do, be consistent. Consistent. Consistent. Consistent. Day in, day out, same thing. No more chopping and changing. Okay.
I am all for co sleeping and it has helped me maintain sanity whilst bringing up 5 kids. I didn't do it for my first two, but my third baby was such a restless little thing and my friend suggested co sleeping. I am so glad she did, it was so much better. My DH never wanted too, but he appreciated that I needed the sleep to function, so we bought a king size bed.
When I had my fifth child we bought a double bed for his room, knowing that I would probably share with the baby and that DH would have uninterrupted nights in our bed. The baby is now four and transitioning to his own bed. It hasn't been easy, but a lot easier than settling a young baby as we are using star charts and incentives.
I don't think you are being unreasonable at all, you are being practical.
Can you get a bed for your DH, so he doesn't have to sleep on the sofa?
I,ve not read the whole thread, so sorry if I have missed something.
Some people are saying you should persevere with him in his cot and he will eventually sleep through. This might be true but at what cost to your health and sanity. My dd woke on average 5 times a night until she was 2 and half. She always slept better in bed with me but like your DH I thought I would make things worse by encouraging this. In the end I cracked as needed sleep due to being preg and having terrible ms. So I slept in with her. I just had to sleep. When morning sickness wore off after about 6 weeks, I returned to our room and the night time wakening ceased. The pattern had been broken. It may also have been to do with something developmental but I am now a firm believer of doing what you need to in order to SLEEP. I also got a lot of support from a sleep thread in here; we would all keep each other company in the middle of the night and share sleep tips.
I'm not sure how helpful the "oh, I sleep trained very gently at this age - that's what you should do" type comments are, tbh.
Just because one particular baby responded well to something or the other doesn't mean that it's a panacea for all babies. These sorts of comments often have the effect of making the mother feel like they're doing something wrong, rather than the simple fact of the situation that their baby is different.
It's hugely inaccurate and unhelpful to say to a complete stranger on an internet forum that their a 8 month old baby 'should' be able to self-settle. Where on earth does that come from?
You need to do what you need to do to sleep. My babies were completely different sleepers. When dc2 came along, I assumed that I'd do pretty much the same as with dc1 and he'd be more or less sleeping through by 6 months ....... <hollow laugh>
My least favourite parenting homily = 'rod for your own back'. Absolute bollocks. Both ds's coslept as needed til 11-14 months and moved into their own beds when they started sleeping better. Do whatever it takes to get through.
Kiwi is utterly right. Routine and consistency are your friends.
Lola since you tried it his way can you get him to agree to try co-sleeping for 2weeks or a month. Then re-assess and see. Just because you decide to cosleep for a bit doesn't mean you'll end up with your dc in bed with you forever. You're still the parent and you can decide its time for your dc to go back to his own bed whenever you want. Plus after a few nights of good sleep you may feel more up to sleep training.
I would strongly argue for being completely consistent. The current approach sounds pretty eclectic to me. And, I wonder if the OP has just tried something for a few nights, and then thought 'Nope, not working.' And, moved on to something else.
In my experience it can actually take weeks for something to really work.
I do sympathise, and I know that when you're that tired everything seems insurmountable and complicated. And, trying to be organised and objective is near impossible.
I just think the OP needs to be aware the co-sleeping can be a double edged sword, that's all. It's not necessarily the perfect solution, just because it cures the right here and now scenario.
The op says in the thread they tried cc for two weeks. If it was going to work (which it doesnt for all babies) they should have made progress in those two weeks.
8mths is still very little, most nutrition will still be coming from milk and lots if developmental change may be affecting sleep.
Some babies sleep through from a young age and some can self settle, my ds4 did but others did not. For now getting sleep is a priority or the op will find her mh suffering.
If her dh is not willing to help then she needs to do what works for now and reasses once she has more energy and strength to deal with it.
Co-sleeping does not have to lead to an older child still in your bed or a crap marriage! You get inventive with regards to sex for one thing. Some gave very negative views regarding co-sleeping, when it can and does work very well for many.
I think your child should be helping with the baby before he pronounces on how you parent over night.
and for those who are saying controlled crying, gina ford, etc etc - ha fucking ha.
we have tried every bloody method with 3 yo DS and our sleep specialist HV has even come to the conclusion that we just have to let him grow out of it. controlled crying does not work with every child (believe me, we tried it. 4 hours of screaming followed by 2 hours sleep for the first few nights, then just relentless screaming until we gave up. each time we tried.). and even now DS self settles he still wakes 2-8 times a night. and is up from 5 or 6 for a day of tantrums (and is in bed by 6 or 7).
yet for some reason this is not considered a sleep problem by doctors.
Agree with you 100% OP. It's your sleep that's getting screwed up, not his, so you get to make the decision! Bring the little one in with you and get your DP to sleep on the sofa.
I am finding this thread totally depressing tbh; lots of talk about how her husband should 'help' (Baby is his child FFS), lots of mutterings about poor husband and his feelings and wants should be taken into consideration. And even a suggestion that the OP goes off and sleeps elsewhere with her baby. To accommodate an arse hole who won't compromise on anything and wants the world to revolve around him.
Are we still in the 1950s?
Ooh I just wrote a post saying as much, 5madthings, but it disappeared.
I think the 2 weeks controlled crying has traumatised baby. It is far too harsh and I'm really quite peed off that people still advocate this as an appropriate method.
I don't agree with co-sleeping long-term either though, but controlled comforting seems to be about the right balance, when everyone is ready for it though. OP is clearly not ready and neither is baby.
Babies and adults need sleep. Their brains develop at night. I would co-sleep for a while and take baby onto the sofa and watch DP feel the shame. No decent bloke would want their wife and baby to sleep on the sofa. Call his bluff.
Kveta have you tried controlled comforting?
Controlled crying gives me the shivers.
Don't sleep on the sofa with the baby though OP, that is not safe co-sleeping practise.
I don't agree with CC either, but each to their own. My DH couldn't bear leaving a child to cry either, if often the first out of bed when DD wakes up to come to our bed and he brings her in. For me, a very responsive dad is a very attractive dad .
OP how was last night?
(Obvs only if it's a proper sofa-bed - and it's just a bluff anyway, to see if DP rises to it.)
achillea - yeah I know! But when you are so tired and your DH doesn't want baby in the bed, I bet the sofa can seem very inviting.
Kveta- Why are you putting him to bed so early when he is such a bad sleeper?
OP- is this baby your only child? If so Why don't you sleep during the day instead of arranging outings with friends, cleaning etc? It's more tricky when you have more than one child, but being at home wth one child should be easy to catch up on sleep?
My DP was actually the complete opposite to yours OP, he was always up, waking with every whimper (waking me up in the process). Cuddling to sleep every night (so if she woke again she wouldn't be able to get herself to sleep again). It made it very hard for me to get her to sleep alone.
In the end I just had to take over and put her in the other room and deal with it. Sometimes it is just better to do what you need to and expect very little from DP as his kind of help isn't always helpful.
Eg 'I'll look after the kids, you go out'. You get back and the place is wrecked, sink fully of dishes and you have twice as much work to do. Sorry, now I'm just moaning.
Am I the only one that finds the reality of Co-sleeping very disappointing? We tried it out of desperation the other night, after DAY (9 months and sleeps through in his own room normally) just would not go back down at midnight. It. Was. Hell. He wriggled and kicked and headbutted me so hard he gave me a black eye. He had to go between us, so he didn't climb out of the bed, then kept shuffling down the bed, under the duvet. Every time he woke up he tried to climb over me to get to the night stand, or pull himself up in the headboard, or lick one of our faces etc etc. I got NO sleep, I wanted to cry in the morning. Never, ever happening again. I would rather rock him in a chair all night than do that again.
The IDEA of Co-sleeping is lovely, though.
No real advice for the OP, other than to maybe just do what works for now and reassess in a couple of weeks when you are feeling a bit better.
I agree with you OP. Tell DH to like it or lump it. Its not good for you, your mental health, physical health, children etc for you to be at what sounds like breaking point.
EasilyBored - My DD does go through phases of kicking and screaming in the bed, but it's always been when she's been teething, so she was in pain. But on the whole both my DC's have just..err slept in the bed and it doesn't disturb me. Depends on the child I guess.
I feel your pain, as others have said, sleep deprivation is hell.
However, if your DP is not keen on co-sleeping, you need to find, with him, an alternative. It's no good him saying ' no I don't want to do that" but not suggest an alternative.
I think, and totally expect to be flamed, that a child should be capable of sleeping on his/her own and that co-sleeping might kill the intimacy of a couple. That's why I would not do it with a child the age of yours.
I can understand you are reluctant to go down the sleep training/CC/CIO route but some gentle sleep training might give everybody a break.
Good luck, I hope things get better for you soon.
YOU are sleep deprived. It's a crappy place to be. I agree with those who say your DP has a choice - to cover the night wakings himself, or go with your solution of co-sleeping. But clearly something has to change and there are options.
We "co-sleep" and it's great. Once the baby got mobile we did use a cot - so she goes down in a cot in the evening, and then get into bed with me when she wakes up - sometimes this is 11pm, sometimes its a blissful 5am or even 6am though this is rare (I did this with both DD's). But we all get sleep and feel great for it - well apart from those mornings when DD2 wakes at 5am and doesn't go back down but those mornings are rare. I could not be sitting up trying to settle a baby again and again in the night and still function during the day. Plus it must be very stressful.
As for a "rod for your own back" etc this has not been my experience at all. As they go down in the evening in a cot (kind of have to do this or they will wake and wander off bed), they were both used to sleeping in a cot and that just got extended as they slept longer. It all works out.
Perhaps you should sleep on the sofa for a week and let your DP deal with the night wakings. He'll have a different perspective on the issue after a week of it. And YOU also WORK during the day too and lack of sleep affects your performance and general well being.
socharlotte DS only cat naps in the day so catchin up doesn't work i'm usually so tense waiting for him to wake i can't sleep and sitting about makes me feel worse i need to keeping going to keep going.
HipHop thats was what i was thinking of doing
He slept really well last night 7-2 2-5 5-8.30!!!!!!! I feel great
I'm going to keep putting him in his cot then bringing him in later i know people are saying it's inconsitant but i wouldn't leave him alone in our bed as he can climb out of it i'd be worried he'd hurt himself.
I have tried controlled comforting and it works for the point that he will go back to sleep in his cot on his own but will wake again an hour or 2 after, when he wakes he only crys until i get to him then will fall right back asleep he doesn't want to play he just wants a cuddle. DS has no problems getting to sleep it's staying asleep the waking for an hour+ has only started with teething/seperation anxiety.
I have a friend who co slept until 2 then her DS went in his own bed no problem and my sister who co slept and her 5yr old still gets in bed with her so i know there can be problems with some kids. It's a temp solution at the moment
socharlotte because if he goes any later, he still gets up all night and then for the day at 5 or 6. believe me, we have tried later bed time and it is utterly hideous.
I also have an 8 month old. The sleep is hell.
Like most of the shit things about motherhood, people who are not going through it forget how intense and awful the bad times are.
You need to co-sleep for survival right now.
My DS is almost 10 months and we co-sleep. He likes to wake once or twice a night and I just pat his back and go sshsshshshshshs in my zombie state for about 5 minutes and he goes right back to sleep. LOVE it.
I have been semi co sleeping with 6 week old daughter. I pop her in her modes basket after each feed once she is asleep except the 5am feed as she tends to be quite unsettled after this one and cries a lot. I put her on the other side of me because dp is a big lad and heavy sleeper. I have my arm around her head and body and she has her own blanket as as to not over heat. Dp was concerned when he realised what I was doing but I pointed out I couldn't stay awake whilst bf and was scared one day I'd fall asleep and drop her. As he doesn't hear her he has no idea how often she wakes. Some nights it's 12,3,5. Which is fine. Other nights it's 12,1,3,5,6 those nights are hard going!!!
Only thing is my sleep is probably rubbish because I only doze. I have every intention of co sleeping and am looking forward to her being bigger and more robust so I can relax a bit more when she is in with us.
"I'm going to keep putting him in his cot then bringing him in later i know people are saying it's inconsitant but i wouldn't leave him alone in our bed as he can climb out of it i'd be worried he'd hurt himself."
If you do this every night it's CONSISTENT!! (not inconsistent)
You cannot continue as you are, it is not good for your health.
The current shared decision in place is no co-sleeping. The result of this decision is that you are on your knees with sleep deprivation, while he is just fine thank you very much. Until he is prepared to shoulder his share of the work created by the no co-sleeping decision, then I am sorry but he doesn't get to make the decision. Similar to 'no taxation without representation', I believe in 'no decision-making without dealing with the results of that decision'.
I think you need to get yourself 'slept up' by whatever means necessary . Then, when you are in a better place , look at a permanant solutiom that doesn't involve ousting your DH! If you really really can't do controlled crying , then minimal attention, no eye contact, lights off , ust stroking him in thecot not picking him up.
The bottom line is that at 8 months he does not have any 'need' he is waking up for , it's justhe has trained himself to do that every time he comes to the surface rather than self settling because of the good attention he is getting.
I have co-slept with 3 out of 4 of my DC (the eldest I could catch up on sleep y staying in bed til lunchtime because no other kids to worry about). They have been a complete nightmare to get to sleep in their own beds. The youngest at 7 is afraid to go to sleep on her own because I have made her that way!
Just to add , their will power gets stronger as they get older!!!
And that's the whole point about how all babies are different....
I and plenty of other people have co-slept then had no problem transferring child to their own bed when toddlers.
I don't we did anything 'magical' that you didn't - babies are all different.
Can I add my experience - slightly different to anything mentioned already I think. I have twin boys, one of whom I can't sleep with (he still ends up with his legs half way up the wall at night and rarely stops moving), so I decided not to sleep with either of them.
So they have been in their own cot/bed since birth, in their own room at 1yo. Now they are 3.6, both settle perfectly, but one of them still wakes at least once a night (not Mr Wriggly - must constantly exhaust himself with all that spinning around).
So you may struggle through years of exhaustion and STILL not end up with the perfect sleeping child.
At 8 months they wake up all the time - I think putting him to bed in his own cot will gradually lengthen the time before he first wakes and if you can resurface from that horrible fog that is sleep deprivation you can start to think properly about how you want to go about encouraging that.
If your baby is unsettled/ lonely/ scared being on his own at night to the point he is waking up regularly and crying then it seems like a no-brainer. He's so young and wants his mum. I don't think there should be such a rush to 'teach him a lesson' and force him to be on his own.
I don't want to be judgey; I know seperate bedrooms work for some people but if your baby doesn't like it, why force him. Your DP needs to understand this and put his sons welfare and your sanity first.
Never mind the rights and wrongs of it, you NEED a temporary solution at the moment. After a week of half decent sleep you can think with a clear head about what you want to do, talk to your DH
get him to help more and put a plan into action.
What you need to do is to have an other baby. Then DS will have to sleep in his own room.
Good luck when he's 6 and throwing a similar tantrum each time you don't want him to do something he doesn't want to.
WTF firemansam? Are you seriously comparing an 8 month-old to a tantrumming 6 year-old?
Err.... really, firemansam? That's an absolutely cracking idea. Plus that will give the OP another 9 months of sleep deprivation during her pregnancy, plus the first 3-4 months of sleep deprivation with a newborn. But in a year or so her DS will learn that he can't have everything his own way...
(Thanks, though - that suggestion actually made me laugh so much I snorted some of my tea)
Ok now FiremanSam, back to the asylum for you.
<jangles keys, locks FMS in padded cell>
Firemansam are you a troll or just a twat? I'm not sure which.
OP - I used to put DS to bed in his own bed, and then when he woke up, he'd come in with me. It was still consistent because it was the same thing each time It worked wonderfully for us.
A bit after the fact, but SirBoobAlot, I like your style , straight out with it.
Well "have another baby" is the most ridiculous pieces of advice I have ever heard given to a mother who is dealing with sleep isshoooos...
For the sake of your marriage as well as your sleep would you consider a sleep consultant? They might suggest solutions that could work for you, DH and DS?
A nice co-sleeping story for you.
We started off with DS in his cot, but as he got to about 8 months it was getting harder to settle him after a feed and I was so so tired (had gone back to work), so we started co-sleeping. However I did it by just bringing him into bed when he woke - he'd nearly always start off the evening in his own cot.
I could tell some of my friends thought I was a bit mad, especially when he was still doing this at 2.
BUT I will say I slept really well with him in the bed, because he'd wake less often and go back to sleep much easier. My husband stayed in bed with us.
I did worry about whether he'd ever start sleeping properly on his own and just after he was 2 he started doing it of his own accord. Now he stays in his bed most days. Very occasionally he wakes up says 'mummy daddy bed!' and even more occasionally we take him into bed with us.
I treasure it now. Love a cuddle in bed
Myterious, we did much the same thing. I agree, treasure it now as soon they won't want to co-sleep. Avoids rejection but shows them gently on their way to independence.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.