to think that sleep regression and the virgin gut are a recent phenomena

(105 Posts)
FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:02:09

they didn't exist when I had DS1 7 years ago and so I think they can't be true.

EntWife Sat 13-Oct-12 22:04:12

yanbu!

NotInMyDay Sat 13-Oct-12 22:06:01

I have a feeling this might not end well. But I do think it's a good point worth discussing. I tread the line somewhere in the middle of advances-in-science-are-wonderful-and-keep-us-alive and there-is-way-too-much-information-available-to-us-what-happened-to-nature-and-instinct?

nocake Sat 13-Oct-12 22:06:47

Just because people didn't know about something 7 years ago doesn't mean it didn't exist.

SirBoobAlot Sat 13-Oct-12 22:07:09

Not too long ago, we also used to think that smoking was good for us, that coloured people had a lower IQ, and that women didn't deserve the vote.

Just because we know different now, doesn't make those wrong.

FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:07:23

sleep regression isn't true is it? DS2 didn't have it either. Maybe put disturbed sleep down to a growth spurt but it didn't have a formal name

CakePops Sat 13-Oct-12 22:07:44

What on earth is a virgin gut?

FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:08:16

and the virgin gut thing is just bollocks

maddening Sat 13-Oct-12 22:08:41

And apparently the world is round - it's lies and poppycock I tell ya ;)

WorraLiberty Sat 13-Oct-12 22:10:12

What's a virgin gut?

One that hasn't been fucked by junk food and chocolate? grin

Aboutlastnight Sat 13-Oct-12 22:10:13

Sleep regression was just 'being a baby' when DD1 was little, eight years ago.

What the hell is ' virgin gut?'

FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:10:23

Cake it's to do with EBF and not weaning until 21. Don't know what benefits it brings though. Still some seem vair concerned to keep the ole virgin gut intact, until granny gives pub a chocolate button that is

EndoplasmicReticulum Sat 13-Oct-12 22:11:03

The virgin gut thing was around as a theory 7 years ago, my son is 7 too and I remember reading about it.

SamSmalaidh Sat 13-Oct-12 22:11:38

Virgin gut is the theory that introducing foreign (non-breastmilk) proteins into a newborn/young baby's gut damages the lining and makes it more susceptible to infection I think - I am not sure what the evidence for that is.

4 month sleep regression has surely been around forever? In the old days people took it as a sign of hunger so weaned, nowadays people are more likely to put it down to developmental changes in the brain.

Viperidae Sat 13-Oct-12 22:11:58

YANBU to the point that I don't even know what they are.

Quadrangle Sat 13-Oct-12 22:12:01

How do you know the virgin gut is bollocks? It's a strange argument that anything new we find out about the human body must be bollocks because we didn't know about it 7 years ago. Medicine would never move on if we all thought like that.

LadyWidmerpool Sat 13-Oct-12 22:12:09

Agree with SirBoob.

My parents put me in a carrycot on the back seat of their car and weaned me on egg. However they accept that best practice has changed in the past 35 years.

HoneyDragon Sat 13-Oct-12 22:12:18

I think we had the same problems, but terms change.

Like Baby Led weaning, Baby Wearing, Quality time and so forth.

I think the concept of a formal name for things is more to do with ever expanding communication, we have more use for blanket terms.

FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:12:33

see About 7 years ago twas the same. Now you have 4 month sleep regression, 9 month sleep regression and 18 month sleep regression. NO they are babies, they don't always sleep well. There is no need to label it as then you have to find a solution

Aboutlastnight Sat 13-Oct-12 22:13:44

It's like BLW - it was called 'finger food' when I was weaning DD1.

gerardbutlersthighs Sat 13-Oct-12 22:14:04

Whatever happened to baby eats milk sleeps shits and cries for approximately 6 months and you just muddle through it as best you can in a sleep deprived state?

When did parenting require a doctorate with an advanced thesis in psychobabble?

nocake Sat 13-Oct-12 22:14:05

Sleep regression is just a name for something that has always happened with many babies at about 4 months. Call it what you want but it's always existed.

gordyslovesheep Sat 13-Oct-12 22:14:10

not weaning till 21!!! holy heck - that IS extreme BF grin

EndoplasmicReticulum Sat 13-Oct-12 22:14:23

Is there proper evidence for the virgin gut theory? I remember being unconvinced seven years ago when I was reading about it.

Annunziata Sat 13-Oct-12 22:15:09

I occasionally wonder how my DC survived when I read things on here grin

FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:15:09

Quad I just have a feeling in my water that the VG thing is bollocks. Tis all. DS1 is nearly 7. Poor thing with his unvirgined gut

Aboutlastnight Sat 13-Oct-12 22:15:12

It was all one big bloody regression, from birth until about age 3 for all of mine hmm grin

BreastmilkDoesAFabLatte Sat 13-Oct-12 22:15:38

I can't comment on virgin guts but about the myth of sleep regression: could someone pleeeeeeease tell that to the previously-fantastic-at-night "D"S who will now only sleep on my right shoulder after six verses of The Wheels on the Bus sung in the key of F major?

CakePops Sat 13-Oct-12 22:15:57

Thanks Funnys.

OddBoots Sat 13-Oct-12 22:16:09

Wasn't the 4 month thing just called a growth spurt before?

I'm sure the concept behind the virgin gut was about when I had my ds (now 13).

SamSmalaidh Sat 13-Oct-12 22:16:10

Aboutlastnight - I don't think BLW was called "finger food", finger food is just a type of food isn't it confused rather than a way of feeding.

gerardbutlersthighs Sat 13-Oct-12 22:16:11

If its a male child is it technically regression as they never grow up...

gerardbutlersthighs Sat 13-Oct-12 22:16:38

And is a virgin gut sponsored by Richard Branson?

FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:17:21

ha ha About when I weaned DS2 1.5 years ago it was called finger food and not BLW. Mostly because he just ate what he was given and wouldn't be spoon fed. Plus I wasn't purist enough not to give him a spoon

Aboutlastnight Sat 13-Oct-12 22:18:59

Well you used to just put food on the tray of the high chair and the kid would eat it. We called it 'finger food'

Sometimes you would give them some mashed up food using a spoon!

livingfortoday Sat 13-Oct-12 22:19:28

Never experienced sleep regression with either.

Both slep through from 8 weeks 7 to 7.

Eldest is six and wakes to pee n has nightmares, he currently is more of a pain at night than ever.

Dd 8 mnths

SamSmalaidh Sat 13-Oct-12 22:20:00

If you sometimes give them finger food and sometimes spoon feed them then it's not BLW though is it, it's just normal weaning grin

Aboutlastnight Sat 13-Oct-12 22:20:23

And yes my middle child hated the spoon so used to eat baked beans on by one. Mealtimes took aaaages grin

livingfortoday Sat 13-Oct-12 22:20:42

Yy blw is just finger food but cooked versions.

I've done a bit of both, depends where we are n what we cooking.

ovenchips Sat 13-Oct-12 22:21:23

My DD is 7 and I was acutely aware of sleep regressions.

I thought the best thing about these hideous periods was that they did have a name and there was in fact naught to be done about it.

Isn't that the good thing about labelling them sleep regressions - that you know that's what's going on and you don't have to kill yourself trying to 'solve' the problem? That all you can do is wait for it to pass? I found it reassuring anyway.

Aboutlastnight Sat 13-Oct-12 22:21:31

Christ - it's all weaning!!!!

DuelingFanjo Sat 13-Oct-12 22:21:40

I think people call it 'sleep regression' to reassure you it's normal so you don't worry about finding a solution.

ItMustBeSaturday Sat 13-Oct-12 22:21:54

?? Both terms around when dd (nearly 10) was a baby...yabu. Look at threads on here - every time there's a mum exhaustedly posting that her previously settled baby has started behaving like a newborn again, you can guarantee said baby will be around 4m old...happens too often nit to be a 'thing'.

ItMustBeSaturday Sat 13-Oct-12 22:22:23

*not

TwickOrTweasels Sat 13-Oct-12 22:26:01

My DD is at the 18 month sleep regression. As for 18 months she HASN'T FUCKING SLEPT grin

When I was still bf, I got loads of help off here and Kellymom and started getting into all sorts of conspiracy theories as a result (not discounting the help and support, it was invaluable). However, I have since came to the conclusion that they are just babies, they are all different, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another and I have no idea how to deal with them grin

Viewofthehills Sat 13-Oct-12 22:26:24

Well my DC's 4 month sleep regression x3 was magically solved by baby rice x3.
I think sleep regression only came into being when not weaning until 6 months became an obsession.
As for Virgin gut- it may be true, but the minute you put formula in it it's not a virgin gut anymore, is it? So I think baby rice is a far less allergenic option once breastfeeding is no longer enough.
I wish people would apply a bit more logic, instead of mindlessly following the latest government advice.

MigGril Sat 13-Oct-12 22:27:45

the virgin gut doesn't have a huge amount of evidence to spur out at present mainly due to the fact we aren't allows to go around curing up a whole loss of babies digestive tracts to see what they look like. doesn't mean it's not a child theory and that they may out mayor disprove it at some point.

sleep regression, we had a discussion about this the other day on another thread. the conclusion was it's always been there just that we used to see it as a sign to wean. Now we know waking more often isn't a weaning sign it's been labelled as something else.

5madthings Sat 13-Oct-12 22:29:36

my eldest is 13 and i knew about the virgin gut and not weaning till 6mths then! i did my own research/reading and there was plenty of advice about. by the time i had ds2 in 2002 the official advice was not to wean till 6mths.

i also knew about sleep regression, part own experience and part reading. its certainly been true with my 5 (tho not so much ds4) that at certain ages/developmental stages their sleep has regressed.

Aboutlastnight Sat 13-Oct-12 22:35:37

"My DD is at the 18 month sleep regression. As for 18 months she HASN'T FUCKING SLEPT"

Yup that was my experience too..I see threads about sleep regression and I think regression?? You mean your child was sleeping????

CoteDAzur Sat 13-Oct-12 22:35:37

Quite possibly YANBU.

I haven't seen sleep regression at 4 months or at any later time with either DC. At that stage, DD was waking for a feed twice in the night. We started sleep training at 4 months and she slept through after two nights. Since then, she has always slept through, barring the occasional fever, teething, etc. She is now 7. Same story with DS, except that we sleep trained him at 5 months.

FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:37:20

but sleep regression always used to be called a growth spurt. You still knew they would get over it, but not that their sleep had regressed, which actually isn't true. Much rather have a spurt than a regression. It's just so negative

CoteDAzur Sat 13-Oct-12 22:38:02

" Now we know waking more often isn't a weaning sign it's been labelled as something else."

What is it, then? "Sleep regression" doesn't mean anything.

Sparklyboots Sat 13-Oct-12 22:41:54

As for Virgin gut- it may be true, but the minute you put formula in it it's not a virgin gut anymore, is it? So I think baby rice is a far less allergenic option once breastfeeding is no longer enough - sort of assuming there that bf is no longer enough at some point. Which you might assume if you've mistaken sleep regression for a bollocky label and are convinced it can be cured with the addition of food.

I did think all these new fangled ideas were evidence based? Would definitely need more than anecdotes to be convinced that human babies need more than bf before their spit-it-out reflex had disappeared. Just doesn't make evolutionary sense.

SirBoobAlot Sat 13-Oct-12 22:44:10

There is a lot of evidence about both. The sleep regressions especially - all you need to do is ask a group of mums who are saying their children have stopped sleeping properly, and you can guess they will be one of a few ages.

Dismissing knowing better now as bollocks is a ridiculous attitude.

FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:49:34

childrens sleep may change but it's not regression I don't think, more like growth spurts. To say a child has regressed in their sleeping patterns is worse than saying they sleep less because their minds are more active. I'm very glad I hadn't heard of regression with my two. Far more worrying I would have thought.

TwickOrTweasels Sat 13-Oct-12 22:51:26

Sirboobalot, was the 4 month sleep regression a known developmental issue before weaning advice changed to 6 months?

I don't necessarily believe that sleep habits changing are connected to weaning/not weaning. I just don't know the facts so genuine question.

HoneyDragon Sat 13-Oct-12 22:54:39

I don't like the term virgin gut. It's not a nice term for babies, who have shiny new tummies.

I like the term Exclusive Breast Feeding though. Makes my tits sound like A-List celebrities. grin

Sleep Regression, does make it seem more like a "this too shall pass" thing, which is probably good and a lot more reassuring for new parents.

Especially the new parents who really really hate the response "yeah, some babies just do that".

Viewofthehills Sat 13-Oct-12 23:04:46

Sparkly-I think you can get to a point where bf is not enough, yes.
DD1 and DS both slept through the night ( as in 10 pm- 6am say) by about 8 weeks and suddenly at about 14 weeks they woke up constantly. I had already weathered some pretty major growth spurts. Constant feeding for 3 days etc. And this was different. I had loads of milk, they spilled over. The most minute amount of baby rice settled them completely. And they absolutely did not spit the food out, because otherwise I would not have persisted.

Aboutlastnight Sat 13-Oct-12 23:09:02

"Sparkly-I think you can get to a point where bf is not enough, yes."

shock

<points> heresy, heresy!

grin

Sparklyboots Sat 13-Oct-12 23:36:32

Definitely not convinced that your experience stacks up to an argument, against the evidence based advice, or basic observation that it just doesn't make evolutionary sense that babies would need special, sterilised and not-easily-available foodstuffs prepared for them until they were able to self feed.

HoneyDragon Sat 13-Oct-12 23:43:50

But you get Sleep Regression/growth Spurt at 9 months too commonly. After weaning. So it's not simply food.

Valdeeves Sat 13-Oct-12 23:44:22

Sir Boob - nothing to do with what you've said, just to mention your use of the word "coloured" - not done these days.

thunksheadontable Sun 14-Oct-12 00:24:56

My four month old has had his virgin gut ruined. I found my hair in his nappy.

SirBoobAlot Sun 14-Oct-12 00:55:36

Valdeeves, I'll be honest - that's what my friends of different ethnic backgrounds have said they preferred. I'm sorry if I've offended you, and happy to be corrected, just doing what I was told to.

Mummiesarescary Sun 14-Oct-12 01:41:38

Don't know about sleep regression as mine didn't sleep much for years.

Ds3 didnt tolerate formula as well as he did bm though. However I think that was more to do with him being 8 weeks early. Ds1 had no problem with formula from day 1 and was weened around 18 weeks, which was the norm 17 years ago.

Enfyshedd Sun 14-Oct-12 09:38:20

My experience with DD (21wks tomorrow).

At 17 weeks, I started weaning (one meal a day so far) after EBF (apart from a few top up bottles in the first 8 weeks). Within a couple of days, she went from waking once a night which she'd managed for 3 weeks, back to waking 3 times a night. Only this week has it dropped to twice again. In the past 4 weeks, DD has done the following things:

Started crawling freakishly early.
Cut her first 2 teeth.
Put on 14oz in 14 days between 17 & 19 wks.
Started a cold a few days ago.

Put all these things together, and I don't blame the poor mite for being unsettled at night.

Have to say, I've been a bit hmm at the weaning advice from the HVs - kept being told not to wean until 6mo as babies are less likely to develop allergies. I might have been PFB and followed this advice if it wasn't that as far as I can see most people my age (30) & over don't seem to have problems with allergies, but recently we've found out that my 17yo cousin has a severe nut allergy after somehow avoiding eating nuts almost his entire life. And I'm pretty sure the freakout over PG women eating nuts started just before my DA got pg.

Viewofthehills Sun 14-Oct-12 11:45:13

Enfy- I think you're right about the nut thing.
Just as i got pg with DD1 it appeared that all the nipple creams contained groundnut oil. ie peanuts
I think that was thought to be the cause in the end rather than than pg women actually eating them. Babies were actually getting allergenic nut proteins directly into their bodies long before weaning age.

CassandraApprentice Sun 14-Oct-12 12:24:29

My eldest is 7 and I heard about these.

I also heard a lot about how the guidelines had 'recently changed' about weaning waiting till 6 month. That is something I still hear now.

I do think down I have a few DC under my belt I's worry less about things. The sleep regression was I though just a phase - sometimes a long one usually due to growth spurts plus I know that all DC were different.

CassandraApprentice Sun 14-Oct-12 12:29:35

After first DC I was told next time to use nipple cream with laloin in to avoid the problems I had with first - which in hindsight were possible due to poor latch.

Second DC comes into contact with creames or oitments with laloin in flares his excema right up.

Softlysoftly Sun 14-Oct-12 12:36:57

As I am in the midst of the 4m regression with a High Needs baby I call authority!

She has gone from sleeping 5hrs in bits at night and 1 in the day to 2 hrs at night and 2 x 10 minutes in the day.

My labels make me feel that it's short term and that she isn't broken, there's nothing I can fix, I have been through 4 months of fricking trauma to work out those labels, I'm sleep deprived, desperate and in a state of shock after non high needs perfectly sleeping DD1 so back the fuck away from my labels.

<<goes to weep in a corner>>

Ps virgin gut doesn't bother me therefore I will allow you to label it bollocks grin

LeeCoakley Sun 14-Oct-12 12:38:20

The trouble with new-fangled terms like virgin gut is that it creates elements of competitive parenting. On MN there have been wailings about MiLs letting grandchildren lick the carpet thus 'ruining' PFB's virgin gut. How can one then go to an NCT coffee morning with one's head held high? Maybe the more virgin the gut the more healthy it is, but don't let it rule your every waking moment.

FunnysInLaJardin Sun 14-Oct-12 12:44:32

there there Softly <pats arm> you keep your labels, I see you need them

<backs away cautiously>

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Sun 14-Oct-12 12:48:25

The problem with most parenting advice/ philosophies is that it's based on flaky or no evidence- it's an "apparent truth" thing like it sounds like it should be right.

e.g claims that BLW kids are less fussy eaters. There is no proof beyond anecdote that this is the case, but no-one can actually be arsed to do the research that would prove it one way or the other, because to get a meaningful conclusion about whether it has benefits, you'd have to follow the 2 groups for 18 years- i.e. to see if BLW makes a difference to your eating habits as an adult. You'd have to do a study of probably 2000 people, and adjust the results for demographic and social factors. Why bother when people will buy the book anyway?

Ditto all this 4th trimester stuff. Swaddling was "the thing" a few yrs ago- now it's "not recommended" as may be linked to cot death. Bet the Baby Whisperer is gutted.

LeeCoakley Sun 14-Oct-12 12:52:15

That's interesting. Yesterday I was talking to a pregnant friend and apparently swaddling is all the rage!

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Sun 14-Oct-12 13:02:12

Oh really? I read a thread on here recently saying that a lot of UK MWs/HVs are now saying don't do it, because of the risk of overheating. I don't live in the UK so can't comment from personal experience- I had my second baby in Asia recently and swaddling is still the done thing here but we are a bit behind in the colonies grin

PoppyAmex Sun 14-Oct-12 13:11:03

"My labels make me feel that it's short term and that she isn't broken, there's nothing I can fix, I have been through 4 months of fricking trauma to work out those labels, I'm sleep deprived, desperate and in a state of shock after non high needs perfectly sleeping DD1 so back the fuck away from my labels."

I'm with you! DD slept 12 hours a night (with dreamfeed in the middle, never woke up) until she was... you guessed it, 4 months. She's now 7 months and wakes up every SINGLE sleep cycle.

I read the "Wonder Weeks" and it's spooky just how spot on the developmental stages (growing spurts for you oldies grin) are pin pointed. Sleep regression is definitely not a myth.

Aboutlastnight Sun 14-Oct-12 13:15:45

Re: nut allergy.

A while back I was listening to Radio 4 highlighting new research which stated pregnant women should consume more nut products to help desensitise baby. But obviously thus is new research Nd not enough has been done to change current thinking.

As for Virgin gut: two of my kids are scuppered, DD1havibg been given formula in hospital while in special care and DD3 hugely enjoying orange squash at 3 months, generously provided by her sisters hmm

achillea Sun 14-Oct-12 13:16:57

If a child starts waking at 4 months it's because they're hungry or cold. That is all.

Virgin Gut is nonsense because children need to taste different foods and precisely to build up their stomach bacteria and resistance to infection. They need to chew things in order for their teeth to develop well.

Not complicated really. The bollox comes in when people think they know better than the doctors.

FredFredGeorge Sun 14-Oct-12 13:17:59

Remember advice does genuinely change because things change...

If you're obsessive about sterilization and anti-bacterial wipes endlessly, then "the virgin gut" (presumably meaning not colonized by the bacteria that have to be there before you can eat non milk foods) can last a long time, however if you're less obsessive about such things and the bacteria transfer happens earlier. And when you introduce potential allergens into the gut without the bacteria there - allergy is perhaps more likely.

So if you're very anti-bacteria/hygiene obessive delaying allergens is a possibly a good thing. That doesn't mean it's always relevant. It's similar to the advice on salt for adults, if you have high blood pressure, reducing it helps, if you don't, salt appears irrelevant. Unfortunately though simple mass health messages - particularly once percolated through groups and websites etc. etc. can't go into all the details so the advice becomes a catch all.

Without high blood pressure salt is probably irrelevant, with it reducing is probably good - so the advice can apply to all and it's a simpler message.

So the advice on all sorts of things can change because the wider society has changed rather than the science or understanding behind it. People desire to get simple messages, it's a shame, but it's almost certainly better than no advice.

Sometimes I find these labels very helpful. Last month DS had a fortnight where he woke bang on 2300 and screamed for the entire night. Every fucking night. I came online in tears at 4am one night and found loads of information about 18mo sleep regression, and stories from other parents about what they did and when I could expect it to pass. It reassured me, I stopped fearing that this was my life forever more, and it did indeed pass.

achillea Sun 14-Oct-12 13:43:12

But surely sleep regression is a term for a symptom - the cause is variable. It always existed, it's like separation anxiety. It is a symptom of poorly managed separation, the cause of which could be any number of things.

What bothers me is that some of these terms pass the buck from the parent to the child. Take self-weaning for instance. Means that the adult never needs to admit that they are in control of their childrens development.

I think that's why I term it as bollox. Ivor your late night wakings were caused by something, but not by sleep regression -you as a responsible adult found out what it was and dealt with it - even if the cause turned out to be 'getting used to being hungry at night, or needing a wee (you may never know) it's not a big deal, he'll get past it'.

beancurd Sun 14-Oct-12 14:03:41

Bf babies are much less likely to get gastro and uti probs. They recover more quickly too. This is partly because of what is often called the vg. The gut of an ebf baby is colonised with gram positive bifid bacteria...it creates an environment hostile to less friendly bacteria.

If you give ff or food but then ebf the bacteria build up again. Again this helps protect the infant gut and reduces their susceptibility to gastro probs.

Doesn't matter what it is called, it's just one of the mechanisms that gives a bf baby protection against unfriendly bacteria.

achillea Sun 14-Oct-12 14:57:18

It concerns me that people would try to somehow retain the virginity of their babies guts by avoiding weaning. That's the danger of these phrases. Unless the human body has suddenly altered, babies still need food from 4-6 months on, right?

DolomitesDonkey Sun 14-Oct-12 15:14:15

Yanbu, still I always like the crazies to identify themselves and I fear for the nutjobs who dip their nipples in boiling water to ensure they're sterile, I mean "Ouch"!?

beancurd Sun 14-Oct-12 15:18:49

Don't think many people have ever heard of the vg, can't impact on weaning...tiny percentage ebf at 6 months.

Just helps the developing immune system. I don't look at mine and remember who did and didn't have a vg.

There's a 9 month sleep regression? <faints> We haven't recovered from the 4 month one and she's 7 months now!

SamSmalaidh Sun 14-Oct-12 15:49:34

Babies "needing" food at 4 months is still a fairly new idea though achillea, and isn't even the current NHS/WHO guidance. The virgin gut theory is more about introducing unnecessary sugar water or formula into the gut of a newborn or very young baby though than introducing solid food at an appropriate point when an older baby is able to chew.

achillea Sun 14-Oct-12 15:55:26

I didn't say 4 months, I said 4-6 months. See they twist my words, they twist my numbers!

Babies "need" food at around that age because their bodies are bigger and digest quicker. Their brains are growing fast and they need longer hours of unbroken sleep because that's when their brains grow and repair, at night. So feed them good calories and they are less likely to wake up and their brain will be bigger.

Would you believe I'm not even a doctor!

Quadrangle Sun 14-Oct-12 15:56:37

Yes those breast feeding types are crazy aren't they, what with breadfeeding to 21 and dipping their nipples in boiling water to sterilise them. They all do that you know. Completely bonkers. wink

SamSmalaidh Sun 14-Oct-12 15:58:02

Funnily enough I can believe you are not a doctor hmm

achillea Sun 14-Oct-12 16:09:43

There's no such thing as a breastfeeding type but there is a type of person that thinks they can reinvent the biology of maternity and child development.

Babies wake when they're hungry or cold or there is a noise that wakes them, or they are in pain with teething. No regression at all.

Babies guts are virgin until something other than a nipple passes their lips. As it should be until their guts are ready to cope with bacteria or alternative foods.

hmm

Flimflammery Sun 14-Oct-12 16:23:32

Babies wake when they're hungry or cold or there is a noise that wakes them, or they are in pain with teething.

Actually brain research has shown that babies (in fact all humans) have natural sleep cycles consisting of different types of sleep with different brain waves. Babies naturally wake slightly about every 45 minutes in the daytime and 90 minutes or so at night. As long as they're not in some kind of discomfort, then what makes the difference to whether they go back to full sleep again rather than crying for mum is whether they've learnt to do it by themselves (or are co-sleeping so don't need to wake you).

foreverondiet Sun 14-Oct-12 16:43:47

re: virgin gut remember that for all off human evolution apart from maybe last 150 years or so babies would not have been fed anything but breast milk for first 4 months. So who are you to say its bollocks?

I mean 50 years ago people thought smoking was good for health.

EndoplasmicReticulum Sun 14-Oct-12 16:54:22

foreverondiet - how do you know what babies were fed 150 years ago? I'm sure they weren't all exclusively breastfed.

They may not have had formula, but what about food? Mush?

(goes off to Google)

Look - ancient bottles! www.babybottle-museum.co.uk/early.htm

SirBoobAlot Sun 14-Oct-12 17:14:37

Babies don't "need" food at 4-6 months, actually. They get the majority of calories from milk until around a year old.

Tailtwister Sun 14-Oct-12 17:26:35

I find that people choose to believe or not believe depending on what suits them. For example, often people who chose to wean before 6 months think the vg theory is bollocks. It validates their decision. People don't like to feel challenged by information which might suggest they didn't follow the optimum path.

Does it really matter in the great scheme of things? Probably not. In 5 years time I'm sure I'll be reading how I 'did it all wrong'!

EndoplasmicReticulum Sun 14-Oct-12 17:32:02

Tail - I'm going to disprove your theory - I am not convinced by virgin gut theory and my second son wasn't weaned before 6 months. (First one was scuppered anyway by formula in special care).

I still haven't seen any scientific evidence for it, although I haven't looked recently to be honest. If anyone has any, please post a link.

Tailtwister Sun 14-Oct-12 17:37:54

I did say 'often' endo not always. I'm just saying that it's easier to dismiss something as a load of bollocks than face the possibility you might not have chosen the best route. Happens with lots of things, but especially with parenting as it's so important to us.

lljkk Sun 14-Oct-12 17:45:32

Swaddling was a life saver with some of mine <<Old Gimmer emoticon>>.
YABU, though, it's good to evolve our understanding of things.

theodorakis Sun 14-Oct-12 17:49:00

I can't take virgin gut seriously however noble the sentiment. It just brings to mind earnest nct coffee mornings with little spaceman bubbles over babies heads in case they inhale the aroma of coffee

slatternlymother Sun 14-Oct-12 17:54:33

YABU. Sleep regression is real for those it happens to. It didn't happen to us, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all.

pointyfangs Sun 14-Oct-12 18:13:20

No sleep regressions here, but anecdotally speaking both my DDs were bf (though not ebf to 6 months) and they seemed not to catch nearly as many vomiting bugs as their ff peers - one each to date and they're 9 and 11. And the ones they did catch they recovered from in 48 hours flat, whereas their peers were laid low for 4-6 days. I do think there's something in the protective effect.

However, I read somewhere that the crucial period is the first 6 weeks???

FunnysInLaJardin Sun 14-Oct-12 21:38:46

oh dear, I swaddled both mine, only 2 and 6 years ago. It was winter though with them both so no overheating. I am sooo of the moment, yet sooo behind.

And sleep regression is the same thing as a growth spurt. All babies have them.

slatternlymother Sun 14-Oct-12 21:51:54

I swaddled mine OP! He seemed to like it.

IceBergJam Sun 14-Oct-12 22:06:13

My DD woke every one to two hours for 9 months. She never slept enough to regress. She is a baby. Thats what some babies do.

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