To wonder when equality went out of the window and to think that I AM a 'real' woman?

(68 Posts)
sillymoomoo Sat 13-Oct-12 20:31:58

Recently broke up with boyfriend, feel free to read other thread. There were loads of issues already and while I'm sad about it it's probably for the best.

But there's one thing I'm feeling particuarly wounded about and it just won't leave me, it was something that was mentioned in the past and something that has been used to attack me in text wars since.

Basically between apologies and telling me I'm missed and he knows he acts stupid. I've been told I'm not domestic enough, I didn't look after him, he needs someone who will look after him and not expect him to do washing up or help around the house, I'm not a real woman, he will find a dedicated woman. I need to learn who's boss (I think he was joking).

And although I'm sure I'm not in the wrong I find myself analysing things and even questioning friends about how much their patners do.

My now ex didn't live with me but had over the past 3.5 years been staying round my house often 4-5 times a week. The only things I ever asked him to do were, in the week either wash up after I'd cooked for us OR read ds a bedtime story. And half the time I'd say leave the washing up and do it in the morning anyway. And that's it. Weekends I might ask him to put the bins out while I bath ds or vice versa, help ds have a wash while I ironed an outfit or vice verca before going out and I honestly can't think of anything else that I asked on a regular basis. He did cook but not reguarly I'm talking every 3 weeks he might have been in charge of poaching some eggs for lunch. Actually he has hung washing on the line maybe 5-6 times in 3 years.

I keep my own house clean despite exes presence making this evermore difficult as he would open a drawer to find socks and boxers and leave drawer open and socks in a heap on the floor finding the ones he wants and other clothes spread acros the floor clean mixed with dirty. I washed all his clothes that he left and made sure he had clean stuff to wear and repeatedly folded and packed his going home bag, I offered to iron for him but he said no there's no point ironing clothes. I did other washing he'd bring stuff over for me to wash like his work overalls and even wet stuff for me to hang out.I cleaned his piss up off the toilet seat daily despite his denial that it was him and flushed the shit and piss out of the toilet that he left for me in the morning. I picked up his wet towels, cooked for him almost daily. I wouldn't have dreamed of expecting him to get a sponge and clean the bath, or get the mop or hoover out or dust anything.

On the weekends every morning I make the beds, ex would never make a bed when he got out of it, and I have a quick tidy round usually while he would switch the tv on or sit on the net.

Now thing is, I work four days a week far away and don't get in until 6 those days, I have a ds to take care of too, I try to take care of my appearance so I do like to shave my legs and do my hair and make up each day (maybe I should drop this in favour of household chores). And I also like to chill of an evening for a couple of hours too, so I'm not sure I could do anymore really.

Even my dad who my mum waits on hand and foot said that all this men and women roles is a myth and he got stuck in when us kids were little.

And worst bit is ex isn't exactly the type to get stuck in to the 'mans' jobs at the weekend either! Despite being more than capable and even if he wern't, I think to say he wasn't a 'real man' because he didn't would just be spiteful.

I'm sure he's just being an idiot about it and have told him so, but it's still dented me and made me wonder if all other women are donning their pinnys every weekend and making sure their husbands are ok.

SecretCervix Sat 13-Oct-12 20:35:10

Ignore him. Sounds like you are well shot of him. What an utter twat he is.

WorraLiberty Sat 13-Oct-12 20:36:47

Oh tell him to get back in his cave and then change your phone number.

And I'm sure if you're a MNetter then you know fine well that women aren't donning their pinnys every weekend and making sure their husbands are ok.

He's a prize tit.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sat 13-Oct-12 20:37:12

Please do not let this wound you. I read your fourth paragraph and it screamed out DICKHEAD to me.

He does not want a partner, he wants a mother. Pity the poor woman he finds next to mother him. Honestly.

lovebunny Sat 13-Oct-12 20:39:04

ignore him, he's a prat. you did well to ltb.

WofflingOn Sat 13-Oct-12 20:39:13

No, those of us with happy relationships that have lasted a while are with real men who see it as an equal partnership. Your ex is a sexist PITA who sounds as if he wants a mail-order wife who would put up with his revolting habits.
If he was a real man who wanted a little woman to take care of him, then he should go for the whole package and insist that you don't work as he will pay for everything, fix everything around the house, deal with every big problem and keep in muscular shape so he is desirable.
My parents have a relationship split on gender lines, and it works for them, but it is a respectful and loving one.
I'm amazed you lasted 3.5 years.

cheekydevil Sat 13-Oct-12 20:39:43

If my DH did half the things your DP did for you (who didn't even live with you) I would be ecsatic!
That said, he is still a jerk

sillymoomoo Sat 13-Oct-12 20:40:38

I know, I've just really let this get to me for some reason, it's like a stab in the back. Think I've come here to get some sense shaken back into me.

WofflingOn Sat 13-Oct-12 20:42:16

Really cheeky? shock
I was assuming that the OP's ex was a sex god, because I could see bugger all reason for keeping him otherwise, he seems to do nothing.

Peevish Sat 13-Oct-12 20:45:04

Ignore - your ex is a horrifying anachronism. I've yet to question my Real Woman status, have been happy with my partner for twenty years, and we share domestic tasks and childcare.

sillymoomoo Sat 13-Oct-12 20:46:19

deal with every big problem and keep in muscular shape so he is desirable

Now that made me smirk a bit, I will say this now because we have split up and I have lost all respect for him, but he is not in muscular shape and far from it, but I did and do find him desirable and lovely despite his self loathing to the point that he won't sit with his top off at times even in front of me or go swimming with us.

But he blamed me often for his weight saying it's because I 'force' feed him pudding. Despite me telling him over and over he is gorgeous and just perfect but that if he's miserable why not come swimming or to the gym with me, but he wouldn't.

GhostShip Sat 13-Oct-12 20:46:38

What the actual fuck?! He's a nob, dont you be questioning yourself!! What exactly did he bring to the relationship?!

I sometimes think to myself, do I really do enough... then I pick DP's Vans up off the stairs for the millionth time and think YES I BLOODY WELL DO.

I don't even cook im a bad girlfriend

WofflingOn Sat 13-Oct-12 20:47:39

Nope, you have a child there, not an adult male partner.
And a petulant, lazy one at that.

BertieBotts Sat 13-Oct-12 20:52:17

His idea of a "real" woman is a domestic appliance. He is utterly utterly wrong, please do NOT allow anything he has said to taint your self esteem in any way!

Of course you're a real woman. You're not made of plastic? You exist, don't you? Typing away there in your house that exists, on Earth, not in some made up dreamland grin

A real woman is someone who has interests, hobbies, dreams, thoughts, feelings, desires. Not someone whose life revolves around serving someone else and making sure their life is perfect. That sounds like a half life to me, the total opposite of being a real person in your own right.

cheekydevil Sat 13-Oct-12 20:52:35

I won't hijack but this is nothing!
Take no notice OP I am pretty sure men must have moved on since the dark ages?

GhostShip Sat 13-Oct-12 20:58:05

You think this is nothing? Do you mean compared to what you have to put up with? That is really sad sad

I think I should feel lucky, then I realise no I'm not lucky, its supposed to be this way!

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 13-Oct-12 20:59:17

sounds like a lucky escape to me.

however if anyone finds one of these ladys (or men im not sexist) who does don a pinny and sort out all domestic tasks compleatly all day every day. then let me know so i can employ them. because i currently employ 4 people to do that.

sillymoomoo Sat 13-Oct-12 21:00:34

You can hijack if you want cheeky, thing is I can put up with laziness, I know noones perfect. And you know, he did help out, not massively but plenty enough for me. And he even made me a lovely omelette once when I was sick, But it's the expectation that actually, he should do nothing and I wasn't looking after him.

And bertie you've hit the nail on the head of how it's made me feel, the way I see it I'm not here to serve anyone, in a relationship we are there to look out for eachother, and work together to get stuff (like the washing up) done so we can get on and enjoy the good stuff in life. Like my mum said if we didn't do a job each in the evening (me 3 him 1 because I'm so much quicker) I'd never sit down and then he'd be moaning that I wasn't there on the sofa with him. I only really asked him to do stuff to get it out of the way to that we could sit down or go out etc.

GhostShip Sat 13-Oct-12 21:11:00

sockreturning I wish I could copy my DP and send him out to you lovely women of mumsnet. If you could put up with his leaving of trainers EVERYWHERE, he's dead good once you get used. and he'd wear a pinny.

sillymoomoo, you aren't a silly moo, you're a normal woman who shouldn't have to be a sodding stepford wife to feel 'perfect'. and you're spot on, a relationship is about working together and it shouldnt be anybodies 'job' or 'role'. and certainly not 'serve'!

I do apologise, I've had a couple of wine and feel a bit grin

marriedinwhite Sat 13-Oct-12 21:23:29

We have a very traditional relationship and I do do most of the jobs and am in "charge" of the house and the laundry and the cooking and my dh bathed the dc very rarely when they were small even at weekends, can't cook, hates shopping, etc.. However, he was perfectly happy to pay for me to have help, has always paid every bill, has got better with the dc as they have got older, has never said any of the things your dp has said, and is generally quite appreciative. I have never minded doing it. We have been together for 23 years or so now. He also completely supported me when I went back to work and decided to take some professional qualifications.

We don't live in a show home by any standards and he has the odd moan about tidiness and I usually say - well that, that and that all belong to you so stop moaning and put it away.

AlwaysInWonder Sat 13-Oct-12 21:25:53

silly no one should ever be expected to be waited on like this. Men or women.
No woman us less of a woman if she doesn't have her pinny and a house like a showroom whilst her 'D'P does nothing at all.
No woman is less of woman if she doesn't wear make or whatever else.

However, if what he expects is a woman who will be his servant, will do all the HW, have 'perfect' appearance and be a goddess in bed, then I think you are really well rid of him. And I hope he will never find a woman like this, for her own sake

Mintyy Sat 13-Oct-12 21:29:10

Why the fuck are you even giving him a second thought or composing a whole thread on Mumsnet about him? He is an UTTER arse. You are a woman therefore you are a real woman, and don't forget it.

RubyrooUK Sat 13-Oct-12 21:35:59

No OP, you are not mad.

My DH and I do 50/50 in terms of childcare as we both work full time. He has never complained about this because he sees it as normal and right.

Even when I was on maternity leave, he did masses of housework as he thought my job was "looking after DS for us both and Christ knows how anyone can do anything around the house with a baby in their arms all day!"

Actually he does almost all dirty nappies now (blush) and gets into our two year old's bed when we wakes in the night far more than me. This is because I'm pregnant now and I breastfed DS for 16 months, getting up 8 times a night! So he thinks it's only fair that this is his turn to be woken up and kicked in the face a lot.

He's not perfect. He can be very very annoying and stubborn. I could fill a whole thread with all the small things that drive me mad. But he thinks I am equal and would never dream of making my life harder to make his easier.

So no, equality is not dead. Whether I was working, a SAHM or whatever, DH would always think I was his equal and deserved the world.

I'm not saying we don't have problems ever in our marriage but if we split up, it would not be down to him being sexist.

You won't find someone perfect, OP, but you definitely don't have to settle for someone who doesn't think you are equal.

WhenLifeGivesYouLemons Sat 13-Oct-12 22:12:41

leave the bastard

Don't let this git get in your head. You work too hard to let anyone treat you like this

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Sat 13-Oct-12 22:15:06

Tell this pillock to fuck off and stop listening to that shit

sillymoomoo Sat 13-Oct-12 22:33:34

Mintyy, here is great for me to offload and I know I'm going to get honest opinions not say what I want to hear to make me feel better.

The thing that would annoy me also is, say I was cooking something that takes time. He wouldn't even keep ds occupied for me while I got on, or even stick the tv on for ds, he'd want to sit watching sport or take himself off to bed for a couple of hours.

sillymoomoo Sat 13-Oct-12 22:36:28

And you know, if we lived together, and was bringing in an income while I stayed at home and was a take the kids to the park at the weekend while I cooked type. I'd have done ALL not just most of the house stuff.

But by his logic he didn't want to move in until I'd proved my worth and was fully trained in my 'wife duties' as he puts it.

bagofholly Sat 13-Oct-12 22:44:32

I didn't read your other thread but I can say hand on heart, you've had a lucky escape there. Honestly. I'm trying to think of ways in which such idiocy would be tolerable. Perhaps if he was a billionaire, looked like Peter Ginn and gave you full access to his finances to enable you to hire staff to attend to his every whim. Anything less than that, and he goes into the Bad Boyfriend Bin. Forever.

Pour yourself a big glass of wine and congratulate yourself that you've sidestepped a huge world of pain, and replaced it with well, whatever the hell you like!

RubyrooUK Sat 13-Oct-12 22:47:11

He's a silly shit. A grown man making his girlfriend slog for him without doing the same for her is not attractive or sexy. You are definitely the hotter prospect.

EldritchCleavage Sat 13-Oct-12 22:49:13

I think you've overlooked your most important role in that relationship. It wasn't just to be a domestic drudge. It was to be IN THE WRONG so your idle boyfriend would always have someone to blame, never have to face unpleasant truths and never feel he had to take responsibility for anything. You're well rid.

UltraBOF Sat 13-Oct-12 22:51:57

Can I be the first to say "cocklodger"?

sillymoomoo Sat 13-Oct-12 23:08:07

Cocklodger. well if nothing else ever made me want to never speak to him again googling that did. Ugh.

glastocat Sat 13-Oct-12 23:11:15

He's a twat, you are well rid. Clock lodger indeed.

glastocat Sat 13-Oct-12 23:12:57

Cocklodger Ffs!bloody ipad

Proudnscary Sat 13-Oct-12 23:14:40

What the fuckity fuck? Why are you even asking about this?? He's an arsehole. I have absolutely no time for men like this.

bragmatic Sat 13-Oct-12 23:15:04

He sounds like a prick. Tell him you can't wait to find a real man.

Viviennemary Sat 13-Oct-12 23:18:04

When I was young I had a boyfriend. When we split up he told somebody he could never have married somebody who was untidy. This really hurt me at the time. Now I think what a lucky escape. And hope the woman he married loves doing all the dusting and polishing and running around. Don't give him another thought.

bagofholly Sat 13-Oct-12 23:18:38

Is there a part of you that secretly wonders

"What if I'd just tried harder?"

steppemum Sat 13-Oct-12 23:18:54

when I married dh, one of the things that really attracted me to him was that he was totally equal in his approach to life.

We shared all the housework, and all the cooking. If something was dirty, it genuinely wouldn't occur to him to mention it, he would either live with it, or clean it himself.

That is how it is supposed to be. 2 adults equally responsible for the space they live in.

When we had kids, we share the parenting. because dh works and I am SAHM we have now shifted how we do stuff, and I do more housework. But if I go back to work we will sort it again.

Please don't let his hurtful comment stab you. He is a dinosaur.

sillymoomoo Sat 13-Oct-12 23:37:33

Is there a part of you that secretly wonders

"What if I'd just tried harder?"

No, no, I'm hurt that he's trying to insinuate I'm some sort of slob who should be looking after her man and think he needs to come into the real world and have told him so. But at the same time it has made me question myself. But I'm quite sure I'd never have won whatever I'd have done, because like a pp said I was there to be 'in the wrong'.

If you saw my other thread you would see there are various issues and it's all just dented my self esteem. He literally showered us with gifts quite willingly but then throws it back in my face saying I use him for money and listing everything he's bought. He tells me I've never bought him anything even though there's a long list of presents I've bought him and when I point this out he says "what does it matter who's bought what?".

He's basically a headfuck and it's worked on me.

sillymoomoo Sat 13-Oct-12 23:40:43

And I know he's a headfuck because despite saying all this and various other hurtful things he's text me only an hour ago asking to see me tomorrow and saying that he's sorry for being mean, I know what he's like and he needs to change but we need to talk.

I haven't replied but I know even if I did tomorrow he'd be back to being nasty again.

Viperidae Sat 13-Oct-12 23:43:42

Don't let his fuckwittery mess with your head.

Some men will always try to justify their own position, you could have waited on him hand and foot and he'd still have tried to find fault.

justmyview Sat 13-Oct-12 23:43:59

Time to move on I think. Don't dwell on it. One positive thing from this is that when you move on to a new relationship, you'll know how important it is to hold out for someone who is more respectful / treats you as an equal.

justmyview Sat 13-Oct-12 23:44:38

No No No and again No - what's to talk about? Don't get sucked in

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Sat 13-Oct-12 23:46:18

Tell him he has blown his last chance, and from now on you will not be engaging with his shit in any way

geegee888 Sat 13-Oct-12 23:50:42

I would be glad you've got rid of this one and get a better one pronto! He does sound rubbish! Its good to have a man that runs around after you a bit!

bagofholly Sat 13-Oct-12 23:51:34

He's not nasty, he's damaged. Terribly so by the sounds of it. Maya Angelou said that when you come out of a relationship like this, you need to let go and thank them from the bottom of your heart "because now, you know what crazy looks like, and when you see crazy you can walk the other way."

MadameCreeper Sat 13-Oct-12 23:52:58

He's a silly shit. You are banned from any further play dates with him.

No no no no no no no no.

bagofholly Sat 13-Oct-12 23:53:55

And I know he's a headfuck because despite saying all this and various other hurtful things he's text me only an hour ago asking to see me tomorrow and saying that he's sorry for being mean, I know what he's like and he needs to change but we need to talk.

Has he dropped the lottery? If no, get out. And stay out.

sillymoomoo Sun 14-Oct-12 00:02:42

No No No and again No - what's to talk about? Don't get sucked in

Who knows? Maybe he's got some washing to be done or he's horny. Maybe he wants to tell me I'm wonderful and buy me something then throw it back in my face next week, or maybe he wants to tell me how shit I am.

But I won't be seeing him. Thanks for all the supportive and some hilarious replies.

UltraBOF Sun 14-Oct-12 00:03:16

You don't need to talk. He needs to keep pestering and belittling you, it seems, but you certainly don't need to indulge him.

ZillionChocolate Sun 14-Oct-12 00:46:53

You can be a real woman now you've stopped being a doormat. That may sound harsh, but honestly, you need a wake up call. You're grateful that he once cooked you an omelette when you were ill? It sounds like his contribution to your life was pitiful. If he was living with you part time, he should have been contributing equally when he was there. Doesn't really matter how, as long as you're both happy.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 14-Oct-12 08:12:27

Don't talk to him. He sounds emotionally immature and inadequate. Don't let him drag you down any more

JeezyOrangePips Sun 14-Oct-12 08:22:25

I would re

JeezyOrangePips Sun 14-Oct-12 08:24:10

I would reply 'yes, I know what you are like, which is why I am not going to meet you tomorrow'

He is looking for a mother, not a wife.

WhenLifeGivesYouLemons Sun 14-Oct-12 09:59:53

I forgot to say in the previous post OP,

This is not the norm. I know of no other DP/ex-'D'P like this. Yes it's true that women do a disproportionate amount of the housework overall in society, but cleaning up piss from the toilet seat is stuff that most blokes grow out of in their toddler years.

I think when/if you find a new partner you'll quickly see how utterly unreasonable your ex-DP really is.

BertieBotts Sun 14-Oct-12 10:04:54
samandi Sun 14-Oct-12 10:04:58

I'm sure he's just being an idiot about it and have told him so, but it's still dented me and made me wonder if all other women are donning their pinnys every weekend and making sure their husbands are ok.

Erm, no.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 14-Oct-12 12:25:26

Exactly - WhenLifeGivesYouLemons

It's a sad fact that we sometimes don't see quite what a twat someone is until we meet someone who isn't a twat.

OP I wish I could introduce you to a my DDH. He's a real man - changes nappies, makes cakes, fixes thing, irons own shorts, treats women as equals etc etc. Prety basic stuff that's sadly lacking in some.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 14-Oct-12 12:26:05

Sorry, the second DH was a typo. Not Dear Dear Husband - that's just silly

WhenLifeGivesYouLemons Sun 14-Oct-12 12:48:28


I hate showing off my awesome DH, but yesterday he very nicely let himself be kicked out of the house to get me some pudding cos I'm so pissed at being a day overdue with baby grin

There are some really nice partners out there that won't treat you like shit OP

EdithWeston Sun 14-Oct-12 12:56:07

I'd simply say "lucky escape". He doesn't sound remotely good enough for you (and your domestic standards are well above mine).

sillymoomoo Mon 15-Oct-12 10:12:09

To the pp who said I'm there to be blamed I think you're right. I've been having weird dreams lately. The one I had the other night ex and I had gone to a theme park that we go to every year to see fireworks, we lost eachother somehow and my phone wouldn't work to ring him, so he just left and got the train home without me, for some reason in my dream this meant that he had to leave his car, when I eventually got hold of him he wouldn't answer the phone (he's got a thing about not answering the phone when he's got a mood on) and put the train driver on the phone instead, and blamed me for him having to get the train and how awful it was for him, despite the fact that I was now stranded at the theme park in the midde of the night!

I know that's just a dream but I think it's telling how the relationship made me feel.

I didn't see him yesterday, he text a couple of times during the day saying if he's so bad why don't I go and find someone perfect with a perfect body, I said I don't care about perfect or bodies, I just want normal, he text last night though saying 'he knows we need to talk', but that right now he doesn't want to see me as he's angry and is in his own little world. I couldn't resist texting back saying 'ok fine', then he said 'no speak to me now, I want to talk, it might be another week now before I'm in the zone again'. Wtaf does that mean?

I wish I could understand what goes on in his mind. Believe it or not, when we were physically together, he acted pretty normal. confused

EldritchCleavage Mon 15-Oct-12 11:24:51

That was me-a woman's place is in the wrong, and all that. I think that dream's pretty telling.

So, it's over, he's bogged off, but you need to talk. No, he's too angry to see you (punishment tactic), but he demands you converse with him by 'phone, whether you feel like doing it or not. Lovely. Does this give you any hope that this relationship could improve?

Are you going to get back together with him? Because unless you are, you've really got no reason to put up with his text whining.

sillymoomoo Mon 15-Oct-12 11:47:04

No, not going to get back together.

And I've been trying to not engage in any kind of discussion with him, but fall silent for a few days and he starts. I'm my own worst enemy I think as I like things to make sense, and to me, his behaviour doesn't so still driving myself a bit mad trying to figure out what's going on in his head so end up answering.

So I'll get a few texts telling me how awful I am, then he'll say something like he knows he needs to change and how about we buy a house together instead of living seperately, as this would make him happy which is what he did this morning.

HecateLarpo Mon 15-Oct-12 12:00:59

WIFE DUTIES? <faints>

Oh you are well out of that one!

you must be properly trained in order to please the lord and master of the house.

Screw that.

EldritchCleavage Mon 15-Oct-12 12:07:30

You could block his number, I suppose.

MaBaya Mon 15-Oct-12 12:08:59

He sounds like a total arsehole. Ignore him.

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