in not allowing my ex to let my 5yr old daughter talk to her death row boyfriend on the phone

(116 Posts)
munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:00:57

She's been 'involved' with death row inmates since we split 2 yaers ago. She's sent pictures of our kids to them before and I asked her not to involve them in her relationships before now but I recently found out that she was allowing our youngest daughter to talk to her latest squeeze when he calls (using his illegally held mobile phone which inadvertanly have been paying for with the money I give to her for the kids).
It creeps me out to know she's been doing this and I've asked for a signed letter to say she's not going to do it again.
She's a pretty fancy piece of work but I really don't understand how even she can possibly think that what she is doing is in any way right.

Wow. Surely you know YANBU.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Wed 10-Oct-12 22:04:19

Really munkiboy?

PickledFanjoCat Wed 10-Oct-12 22:05:41

Depends on the crime. Who is her latest squeeze?

DowagersHump Wed 10-Oct-12 22:06:00

biscuit

SoupDragon Wed 10-Oct-12 22:06:19

hmm

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:07:02

Really. I didn't make this up. I wish I had.

joanofarchitrave Wed 10-Oct-12 22:08:14

Get legal advice.

squoosh Wed 10-Oct-12 22:08:26

It depends.

Did he kill loads of people or just a few?

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:08:57

Death row murderer type.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Wed 10-Oct-12 22:09:01

Ok.

So have you applied for residency of your children as their mother doesn't sound like she's doing a great job?

aldiwhore Wed 10-Oct-12 22:09:05

I'm terribly sorry I don't really understand the phrase "she's a pretty fancy piece of work"? - like a table? Or something complex? Or fit?

Obviously children shouldn't be dragged into it.

I would seek legal advice.

YANBU for being concerned... I would be.

CrikeyOHare Wed 10-Oct-12 22:09:15

I wrote a poem once about my death row boyfriend. Want a read?

As I stand here on this magic day
My heart is all a flutter
You really are quite handsome
For such a raving nutter
I know we've never met before
Our love has been online
But one glance at your mugshot
and I had to make you mine
Perhaps you thought I'd be put off
When I found out what you'd done
But few of us are perfect
And those that are just ain't no fun
You're due to fry on Sunday
When they take you to the chair
But please don't worry, darling
You'll look great with spiky hair
I'll love you till the end of time
Dear Prisoner 467
I'll think of you, down there in Hell
Cos I doubt you'll be in Heaven.

Moving, or what?

PickledFanjoCat Wed 10-Oct-12 22:09:45

I'd be ok with it if it was less than 5 or 6.

PickledFanjoCat Wed 10-Oct-12 22:10:32

Crikey, that's beautiful, man.

ScaryBeardyCandyman Wed 10-Oct-12 22:11:11

I read this as your 5yo has a boyfriend on death row...

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:11:38

I am now crying.

OnwardBound Wed 10-Oct-12 22:12:34

hmm

If this is for real I second the posters saying you need to get legal advice.

CrikeyOHare Wed 10-Oct-12 22:13:30

See, Munki, I told you my poem would move you wink

GhostofMammaTJ Wed 10-Oct-12 22:14:14

OP, print out a copy of Crikeys poem for her to use. She would love that.

DowagersHump Wed 10-Oct-12 22:14:27

Honestly, I'm moved to tears too Crikey.

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:15:19

I have spoken to NSPCC who have said it's not a child protection issue. Does anyone know where I stand legally?

PickledFanjoCat Wed 10-Oct-12 22:15:27

Well if you want her back you know what you have to do...

IneedAgoldenNickname Wed 10-Oct-12 22:15:52

I read this as your 5yo has a boyfriend on death row..

Me too!

PickledFanjoCat Wed 10-Oct-12 22:17:53

Detention is getting well harsh these days!

There's no need to kill em!

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Wed 10-Oct-12 22:18:03

Are you in the UK? Where is your ex?

DameFannyGallopsAtaGhost Wed 10-Oct-12 22:18:10

Well you can also let the prison know he's got an illegal mobile, and that your ex isn't a trustworthy correspondent? I imagine she's made the contacts through a charity of some sort - maybe raise your concerns with them too?

BlueSuedeWitchesHat Wed 10-Oct-12 22:19:33

I read this as your 5yo has a boyfriend on death row...

Me three! It took me ages to decipher the true meaning. I think it's bedtime.

OP YABU, Death row inmates need love too. He's probably just misunderstood.

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:19:59

In hindsight that could have been worded better.............................

DameFannyGallopsAtaGhost Wed 10-Oct-12 22:20:04

To the other posters, there are a lot of people writing to death row inmates in the states, from all over the world - sometimes they even get married. Now that's bizarre...

babyfirefly1980 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:21:51

I'm going to call karl pilkington in on this one...bullshit man to the rescue.

Narked Wed 10-Oct-12 22:22:04

They are allowed to make phone calls. You didn't need the 'illegally held mobile phone.' Sloppy.

Dawndonna Wed 10-Oct-12 22:23:13

Actually, it is a child protection issue, and if the NSPCC advised otherwise, a situation I find unlikely, then they are wrong.

imperialstateknickers Wed 10-Oct-12 22:23:47

munki could you answer shotgun's questions please?

AgentZigzag Wed 10-Oct-12 22:24:38

What your ex spends her money on is her own business.

Have you ever thought about...hang on, I'm wasting my time writing out any more aren't I? <sucks teeth>

RedTuesdayGreenWednesday Wed 10-Oct-12 22:24:49

If this is real, you are all being quite callous.

PickledFanjoCat Wed 10-Oct-12 22:26:01

Unlikely, but that's a chance I'm willing to take.

birdofthenorth Wed 10-Oct-12 22:26:44

I think it says a lot about a person if they solicit romances with convicted killers who have literally no prospect of freedom! Clearly YANBU to want your 5 yo not to talk to murderers. Obviously.

How does your ex even "meet" these people? Are they allowed Internet access? Bizarrio.

Happylander Wed 10-Oct-12 22:27:13

Hmm so your ex calls a mobile from UK to the states. I am assuming they are in UK as you mentioned NSPCC. That would cost a fortune and I really doubt she is doing it.

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:27:46

My ex is in the uk as am I.

PickledFanjoCat Wed 10-Oct-12 22:27:48

It's those darned sexy orange boiler suits.

imperialstateknickers Wed 10-Oct-12 22:28:49

OP.... yoo-hoo...anyone there???

<tumbleweed blows>

imperialstateknickers Wed 10-Oct-12 22:30:15

Oh sorry x posted there munkiboy blush

Being serious, I really think you need to get legal advice.

McHappyPants2012 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:31:48

Op I wouldnt like my children speaking to a murder, I wouldn't pen-pal them either.

I can forgive most crimes, but murder is one I couldn't.

If this is true, then as a parent with PR I would be talking to a family law solicitor and getting so proper advice

numbum Wed 10-Oct-12 22:32:15

Why do people assume this is a troll? Is it because it's a man? What would the response be if it was a woman saying 'My x-DH lets our DC talk to a woman in an American prison, she's on death roll, how can I stop the DC talking to her'?

Not the same response I'm sure

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:32:20

My ex is doing it and I found out because my daughter told me her mum lets her speak to an american with the same name as a man who I know she is contacting on death row.
My ex also admitted this to me when I confronted her.

imperialstateknickers Wed 10-Oct-12 22:33:05

I've not seen any mention of where xp's boyfriend is - everyone's assumed he's in the States. In which case, the rules about mobile phones in prison, esp. prisoners sentenced to death, may be different to those here.

arthurfowlersallotment Wed 10-Oct-12 22:33:30

Women in love with death row inmates was a special feature in last week's Chat magazine.

Not that I errrr, read it or anything..

blush

squoosh Wed 10-Oct-12 22:34:34

Oh dear, of course it's not because it's a man.

imperialstateknickers Wed 10-Oct-12 22:34:43

Getting fed-up with xposting here! Munki what sort of access/parental rights agreement do you currently have with her?

Narked Wed 10-Oct-12 22:37:53

hmm

Benefit of the doubt.

Contact the prison and report it.

Ask her she thinks is happening to the pictures of her DC. In a prison. With convicted child killers. Where pictures of children are valuable currency.

Report it as a child protection issue to SS.

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:38:36

She has residency, she kept the house and the kids. I have now, finally managed to get my own place and have the kids at the weekends.

shesariver Wed 10-Oct-12 22:40:10

I can believe this, some women are just fascinated and insane interested in these type of relationships - at least they know where "their" man is at night! Kenny Richie had lots of these dafties swearing undying love to him when he was on death row.

GoldShip Wed 10-Oct-12 22:41:39

Can't believe some of the posters on here, give a little benefit of the doubt for once, wonder if this would have got the same reaction if the ex was a male...

GoldShip Wed 10-Oct-12 22:42:10

Munkiboy what have you actually said to her regarding this?

arthurfowlersallotment Wed 10-Oct-12 22:43:56

Well OP, on the one hand, there's a fair chance your child is chatting with a sociopath. On the other hand, he isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I'd knock it on the head pretty quickly if I were you. Seek legal advice.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 10-Oct-12 22:44:56

have you actually asked her not to and explained why you dont want her to?

whilst being less than ideal and something i wouldnt be happy about if it were one of my kids, im not sure why it goes as far as being a cp at risk issue, unless your saying he is saying inappropreate or abusive things to your dd.

have you spoken to a solisiter?

PickledFanjoCat Wed 10-Oct-12 22:45:36

Yes he would!

I don't just hang about looking for men to be mean to.

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:47:04

It's ok. TBH I sometimes wonder whether it's real myself. I start to wonder if I'm the baddy in all of this but then I realise that it's true and I have to be strong for my childrens' sake. Beleive me I have had some pretty tough times with this over the last couple of years, my children have been the reason I've got throught it.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Wed 10-Oct-12 22:48:16

Can't see the appeal of being mean for the sake of it - no one's even said anything particularly funny.

RedTuesdayGreenWednesday Wed 10-Oct-12 22:48:22

Perhaps I'll retract my comment...

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 10-Oct-12 22:51:27

op you do know that loads of solisiters offer free advice clinics it may be worth finding one in your area and asking about it.

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:53:05

I spoke to her about it, explained that her relationships are her business and that our children were not part of that.
She said she would write a letter stating this would not happen again but she's a pathalogical liar and has given me assurances like this before (after the photograph incident) and not stuck to them.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 10-Oct-12 22:56:01

its possible that you could apply for a prohibited steps order to prevent her doing it again.

GoldShip Wed 10-Oct-12 22:56:20

She's being a very silly woman. How old are your children if you don't mind me asking?

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 22:59:27

10, 9, 6, 5 and 4.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Wed 10-Oct-12 23:01:12

A lot of solicitors do offer a free initial half hour's advice. Might be worth ring a few to find a suitable one. Or CAB could give you a list.

FizzyLaces Wed 10-Oct-12 23:03:41

If I was you I would be getting advice about how to get residency of the children. If she is dedicating a massive amount of time to this and you are dedicating amassive amount of your time to worrying about it, I know who I think should be looking after the kids. And it's not the person who is letting her infant speak to a murderer they have never met and have no link to.

imperialstateknickers Wed 10-Oct-12 23:04:45

Is it just the five year old that has been in phone contact?

ScrambledSmegsEvilTwin Wed 10-Oct-12 23:06:21

Inmates on death row in the US are allowed mobile phones? Really?

Honestly, I thought they were shit-hot on confiscating that kind of thing. Not that I'm an expert on death row or anything. Silence of the Lambs is my main source of information.

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 23:06:57

You're right about solicitors. NSPCC told me about free legal advice for matters involving children.
My concern is the can of worms it opens when she finds out. I'm pretty worried about how she would be as up til now she's been good about me seeing the kids. She's likely to turn nasty very quickly.

ScrambledSmegsEvilTwin Wed 10-Oct-12 23:07:27

Aargh, pressed post too soon.

Could you somehow report him for having a mobile phone to the prison authorities?

PickledFanjoCat Wed 10-Oct-12 23:08:15

I think they were extra strict due to Hannibals lust for man-flesh.

imperialstateknickers Wed 10-Oct-12 23:08:29

That's why I was wondering about what sort of written agreement etc you have with her.

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 23:09:02

The eldest ones haven't but my youngest 2 have, apparently.

ScrambledSmegsEvilTwin Wed 10-Oct-12 23:09:39

National Institute of Justice site seems to say that mobile phones are definitely not allowed.

NIJ site

ScrambledSmegsEvilTwin Wed 10-Oct-12 23:11:41

Look, this is bad. You need to have it documented. And you also need to try to get residency, to protect your children. She clearly has major issues and I'm not surprised you're worried about your kids.

Flojo1979 Wed 10-Oct-12 23:11:43

5 kids, Blimey, no wonder the woman has lost her marbles and is behaving completely irrationally!

imperialstateknickers Wed 10-Oct-12 23:13:40

Absolutely everything in writing from now on, if it wasn't already.

Where do her own family stand on this? Are you in contact with them?

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Wed 10-Oct-12 23:15:26

So many comedians here. I'm sure there are lots of mothers of five who manage to keep their children away from unsuitable situations like this.

PedanticPanda Wed 10-Oct-12 23:15:53

They are allowed to make phone calls. You didn't need the 'illegally held mobile phone.' Sloppy.

Yes but you also need to pay for those phonecalls and as he's in the States he probably wouldn't be able to use the phone in the middle of the night to call her. Uk prisoners also have illegal mobile phones snuck in to use.

GoldShip Wed 10-Oct-12 23:28:35

5 kids, Blimey, no wonder the woman has lost her marbles and is behaving completely irrationally!

Lets not excuse her behaviour.

munkiboy1971 Wed 10-Oct-12 23:30:59

I'm not really in contact with her family and, if I'm honest, she's probably told them a whole host of horrible things I'm supposed to have done to her. She has the wool pulled over their eyes I'm sure.
In the early days after our split I managed to read some of the letters she'd had from these 'people' where she'd said I had beaten her up and the kids. One even offered to get me shot.
She's a pretty nasty piece of work. I really don't know what lies she's been telling about me.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 10-Oct-12 23:38:45

FFS.
Aaaaaaaaaargh.

Smeghead Wed 10-Oct-12 23:47:24

5 kids, Blimey, no wonder the woman has lost her marbles and is behaving completely irrationally!

How fucking rude!

I cope just fine with my 6 kids thank you. And that includes not making sarky comments aimed at people who can cope better then you.

Smeghead Wed 10-Oct-12 23:47:46

than

Smeghead Wed 10-Oct-12 23:50:14

OP/

If she is unhinged then you have no choice but to intervene. What is the alternative? Do nothing and possibly allow your children to suffer? Speak to a solicitor about getting emergency measures in place to protect them, do not do anything silly like not returning them after a visit as that will make you the bad guy and you will likely lose any subsequent court action.

imperialstateknickers Wed 10-Oct-12 23:52:51

Hmm.. doubt you'll get much support there then - shame.

any idea what group/charity first put her in contact with this man? They may possibly have a code of conduct about drawing unrelated minors into these relationships <clutching at straws here>

LFCisTarkaDahl Wed 10-Oct-12 23:55:33

Well it shows poor judgement but at least they're not getting out - she could be shacked up with a weirdo instead.

I'd be using that to try and get residency though - she doesn't sound like she has good judgement.

I'm surprised with all you've said you haven't tried already.

ErikNorseman Thu 11-Oct-12 06:55:04

Just to clarify for people, this is not a child protection issue. It shows poor judgement and is certainly inappropriate but social services will not be interested on the strength of this alone.

ripsishere Thu 11-Oct-12 07:16:22

If this is true, it's worrying. My SiL who has MH problems is in contact with three me. One of whom has proposed and she is seriously considering it.
I know for an absolute fact that they don't have phone access.

Boomerwang Thu 11-Oct-12 07:37:31

I'm sure it's not hard to get hold of a mobile in a prison. They can get anything they want if they have something to trade, including from prison officers.

fluffyraggies Thu 11-Oct-12 08:17:06

I'm surprised this isn't a child protection issue. It seem really obviously inappropriate to be involving children in a relationship like this. She is an adult and it's up to her who she spends her time on - the kids don't have that choice. It's very sad. And wrong.

OP - i haven't any better advice for you other than that which has been given already here. You need to get someone onside who has proper legal clout. They will advise on the abuse allegations against you as well.

Other than this issue, how is the rest of their lives with her? Is she a good mum other than this? (in other words is there any other issues you can use to get residency?)

imperialstateknickers Thu 11-Oct-12 08:37:48

OP I'm going to run your story past a friend of mine who works in the UK prison chaplaincy service. Don't expect a fast reply, but she may know a bit more about how the UK views this sort of thing. Meanwhile keep on with the stuff suggested already. ATB

LadyWidmerpool Thu 11-Oct-12 08:58:10

I think the can of worms is open and they are wriggling around all over the place TBH. Call a solicitor today.

Nancy66 Thu 11-Oct-12 09:01:31

FSG - people fall for it every time.

BigBroomstickBIWI Thu 11-Oct-12 09:08:31

Are we being invaded by F4J again? This is the second very strange OP in the same number of days.

OwlLady Thu 11-Oct-12 09:09:46

surely it's a safeguarding/child protection issue?

surely no mother in her right mind would let a vulnerable child talk to a criminal on death row??

OwlLady Thu 11-Oct-12 09:10:28

^The Children Act 1989 sets out in detail what local authorities and the courts should do to
protect the welfare of children. It charges local authorities with the “duty to investigate … if
they have reasonable cause to suspect that a child who lives, or is found, in their area is
suffering, or is likely to suffer, significant harm” (section 47). Local authorities are also
charged with a duty to provide “services for children in need, their families and others”
(section 17). It is section 31 of the Children Act 1989 that sets out the NSPCC’s “authorised
person status” which means the NSPCC has the power to apply directly for a court order if it
believes a child is suffering or likely to suffer significant harm.
The Children Act 1989 defines “harm” as ill-treatment (including sexual abuse and nonphysical forms of ill-treatment) or the impairment of health (physical or mental) or
development (physical, intellectual, emotional, social or behavioural) (section 31). “Significant”
is not defined in the Act, although it does say that the court should compare the health and
development of the child “with that which could be reasonably expected of a similar child”. So
the courts have to decide for themselves what constitutes “significant harm” by looking at
the facts of each individual case^

imperialstateknickers Thu 11-Oct-12 09:50:40

Hi OP

I've had a reply from my friend, text is below, with xxxx replacing names.

"Hi xxxxx

I appreciate your concern on this one! I don't know anything about the rules in the US but it does seem weird that these children are being expected to have contact with a person who is on death row! I would be concerned about the effect on the kids, for whom it will, to some extent be a loss when he is executed - and for her to be in a relationship that's going nowhere!
All very complicated.

In the UK prisoners can have phonecalls to their children and photos sent in, tho I'm not sure about other peoples children. The contact is only deemed inappropriate in the UK if the prisoner is a sex offender, has a history of domestic violence, or if his offence involves children.

I have talked with xxxx about it and we would suggest that you perhaps contact the Probation Service, who have all the information about offenders and links with Social Services, Child Protection agencies etc. They would probably know more than we do or have a link you could follow up.

Good luck - xxxxxx"

Lueji Thu 11-Oct-12 11:03:41

Well, the good thing is it's not likely the children will ever actually meet these men.

Do you think the conversations have been inappropriate?

If you know which prison he's in, or his name, then you could contact the US prison services about the mobile phone.

munkiboy1971 Thu 11-Oct-12 12:29:38

I know where he is, his name and even what his private parts look like(they like to share pictures of each other).
You are right that I should have thought about residency before now, I've just not been in the right place to be able to follow it through.

Sounds as though it's a legal approach I need. Thanks for the advice.

DameFannyGallopsAtaGhost Thu 11-Oct-12 12:32:58

Good luck smile

imperialstateknickers Thu 11-Oct-12 15:41:37

Same here. Keep posting.

VinegarTits Thu 11-Oct-12 15:51:13

gosh how long into your relationship did you realise she was 'a fancy piece of work'?

or did she have a personality transplant after you split up?

OhlimpPricks Thu 11-Oct-12 15:56:01

So, she has showed you a photo of his cock. You must still be fairly chatty then....

PickledFanjoCat Thu 11-Oct-12 16:20:39

Well lets keep positive. He also has a name so he wont have to walk up and down death row looking at their murderous members.

MikeOxardForHalloween Thu 11-Oct-12 16:55:12

Well I was going to say yanbu, but I take it from all the piss taking on here that everyone thinks you're a troll. I'm going to say yanbu anyway, since this thread has been pretty hilarious in parts. I liked the poem. I would like to believe the OP was not serious because that is clearly fucking terrible.

munkiboy1971 Thu 11-Oct-12 17:39:25

I really wish was a troll. As you can imagine its been very difficult for me, hence my inability to do anything about until now.
To answer your question about how long I've known what she's like I guess I'd have to say the signs were there from the start of our relationship. She said she'd been in a previously violent relationship which was probably true as the guy she was with sent her some pretty horrible texts when we were first going out (police involved). I knew she had been through a lot and was trying to show her that not all men were bad and that I loved her for her. She has always has a problem with lying, sometimes really silly little lies, sometimes whppers.
I naively thought that if I showed compassion, understanding and love that she wouln't feel the need to behave the way she did.

Eventually it wore me down though. I've had episodes of depression and been on medication for years. Only now am I able to cope with this situation without wanting to do something drastic.

I lost my job, my marriage, my house and I thought I would lose my children as they were talking about mum wanting to go and live in 'America'.

It's taken nearly two years for me to get back on my feet. I have ahouse a job and feel agreat deal better about myself in general.

As I have said, I really do wish this was all a load of bollocks. Sadly its not.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 11-Oct-12 18:58:49

im confused, she was like this from the start but you had 5 kids with her? what on earth have your kids been doing whilst shes been being a crap mother and you have been spending 2 years getting back on your feet?

munkiboy1971 Thu 11-Oct-12 19:25:02

You're right of course. I suppose I was constantly hoping she would get better, that I could somehow 'cure' her by being constant and adoring. I have obviously been very naive and have paid the price for that.

As for what has happened to the kids whilst I was getting back on my feet, as best as I could I've been their dad, I've seen them as much as I can, spoke to them on the phone as much as I can but obviously not done a particularly good job.

Don't get me wrong, I know I've made mistakes, the point is how to move forward, I've spent a great deal of time smashing myself to pieces about what has happened and that hasn't been very productive.

I don't regret, for one second, having my children, even if their mother is not ideal.

DameFannyGallopsAtaGhost Thu 11-Oct-12 20:55:42

Come on pixie - how many women on the relationship board are still waiting for their 'd' h or p to be add good as they want him to be? We're all guilty of being optimists from time to time, and every child makes it harder to draw a line and say 'enough'

munkiboy1971 Thu 11-Oct-12 21:15:07

I have no problem with people being critical of the way I've handled things, you are right, goodness knows I've been self critical enough, and continue to be. I am trying to learn from those mistakes though and I suppose that's what has really changed about me.

I just want the best for my kids, like all parents.

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 11-Oct-12 21:16:34

munkiboy thats one of the best posts ive ever seen done by a nrp,i admire that greatly.

i have a sneeking suspision your kids are going to be ok with you looking out for them

happydotcom Wed 17-Oct-12 23:42:13

Did I read that right?????? 5 yrs old ?

CaliforniaLeaving Wed 17-Oct-12 23:57:00

Well she can't move your kids to America without all appropriate visas and that means you signing paperwork to say you giver her permission to take your children.
You sound like a very caring Dad, I hope you get some answers.

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