AIBU to be concerned about this (re:DD2 and reasonable noise)??(157 Posts)
My DD2 started in Reception last month. She is really enjoying herself so far and I am really pleased.
However, in her class, there is a little girl who has a tube in her neck which is attached to a breathing machine, whihc is quite noisy (no idea why, none of my business I suppose). There are two full time members of staff who work with this child.
My DD2 has consistently complained that the noise from the breathing machine is "annoying" and she "doesn't like it". So far, I have (nicely!) told her to get over it, but I am starting to get concerned about the effect this may have on her education.
WIBU to go to the teacher about this, and ask for some kind of solution? I'm not asking for this little girl to go be educated in a shed far away from other children. I am concerned, however, about the effect of this constant low-level noise on my DD2 who does deserve to be educated too.
First post here, I'm slightly at a loss here, and could do with some MN advice!
Ooohhhh. Here's a flameproof suit and a hard hat......
This might not go well.
Short of sitting in a bubble it will be noisy.
As long as she can hear the teacher I don't know what can be done.
I think get over it is the best option.
how about teaching your child to respect those less fortunate than herself?
in a classroom full of reception aged children the noise of a breathing machine is going to be almost negligible
What kind of solution are you expecting them to come up with?
YABU. Totally U.
Have you thought about asking your dd to put herself in that girls shoes? And then how she'd feel if someone complained about the low level noise for her tp stay alive..........
Lesson in compassion and less about mememe I think.............
I imagine that actually having to rely on the breathing tube is far more annoying for the affected child, than the noise is for your daughter. Your child won't be able to work in a bubble of silence for the rest of her life, the sooner she learns how to tune out background noise and focus on her tasks, the better.
How about you send your DD with earplugs and get her to lipread the teacher?
I've never known a silent Reception class.
If your dd is being irritated by the sound, then I would think having a descreet word about the 'noise' would be reasonable... if for example, they have set seats/places and she is always next to the machine, maybe a different approach to seating is required. YANBU to mention it.
However, I am afraid I suspect you're talking shite. My experience of Reception class has never been silent, there has usually been a quiet corner, for reading, but it's usually organised chaos.
I think YABU completely U... Other people are annoying. Breathing machine or otherwise, other people make noises... I think you should try to teach your DD some strategies for being able to concentrate when silence isn't an option. Her classmate doesn't have an option, she has a right to an education. Just like your dd... the difference is though, that your dd has choice at how she manages this annoyance, her classmate has fuck all choice.
I'm not disrespecting a genuine concern, like I say, you could speak to the teacher to make sure your dd has some quite time, but if you go in expecting something to 'happen' to the other girl to make life easier for your dd, then you're approaching it the wrong way.
a reception classroom is a noisy place by it's very nature
the noise of a breathing machine is not going to affect your daughters education. I am imopressed that she can hear it over the noise of all the other kids tbh
Gosh, where to start... You need to tell your DD (and yourself, it would seem) how lucky she is to be able to breathe all by herself, and think how it would feel to be actually attached to such a machine 24 hours a day in order just to survive. At least your DD can move away to another part of the classroom, unlike the little girl in question.
At 4, I can understand that your DD needs help in realising that some people are less fortunate than her. I'm less understanding of a full-grown adult needing the same lesson taught.
Unless she has sensory issues then yes, she needs to get over it.
Oh don't be so harsh to the OP. some people can tolerate low level constant noise and some can't. It sounds like its bothering your dd. I'd talk to the teacher and see if sitting dd further away would mean she could get away from the noise.
But it's a reception classroom - the children hardly have assigned seats, surely. The DD can move away of her own accord. But really, she needs to be told that sometimes in life you have to tolerate minor annoyances for the sake of others, and start to learn to put herself in someone else's shoes.
What do you think they should do? Turn it off?
And its reception. If it was quiet and you DD not allowed to move around I'd be worried
How do other children cope?
Reception-age children aren't exactly renowned for their selflessness and worldliness, so it is quite understandable that your DD has made this comment.
But I am gobsmacked that you are even contemplating asking the school to do something about it. This is a child with serious disabilities, not a nuisance that your daughter needs to be moved away from. I would suggest a discussion about diversity and disability.
Unless your daughter has some sort of particular noise sensitivity then her education is hardly at risk. Certainly not in reception.
I can't think what you expect the teacher to do?? Chuck the child out of the class? Teach her in a cupboard?
I would explain again to dd about why the little girl has this equipment and how important it is. If this girl follows her up the school years then maybe it would become a concern but right now i think its best left alone, theres no way you are going to come out of this looking like your making a reasonable request. Put yourself in the place of the other parents whos been told that her daughters breathing tube makes too much noise and distracts the class. Yab totally unreasonable sorry.
Firstly reception children are anything but quiet.
Secondly, a Tracheo (breathing machine) are not really that noisy. Well until they start bleeping because there is a blockage. We have 2 students in my class with the machines.
Thirdly, what do you expect the school to do about it? Seriously. Do you really think that the students can cope without the machine switched on? Talk to your child about people being diverse.
Sorry Tracheo, part of a breathing machine.. Its that bit that's usually noisy unless the machine bleeps.
Over time your dd will not notice the noise, and she will switch off to it.
Like when we turn our alarm clocks off without noticing.
I can see why your DD has raised it - she finds it annoying, fair enough. It may well be. But you are concerned about the effect it may have on your DD's education? In Reception, where they should be doing colouring, sticking, drawing and a bit of Jolly Phonics? And you are thinking of complaining to the school? I think that is pretty precious, entitled and shameful. Poor girl .
How awful you need to seriously educate your daughter about accommodating people less fortunate than herself!!
have name changed for obvious reasons.
my dd has a "hole in her neck" (tracheostomy) and a "breathing machine" (ventilator) which is probably what this little girl has.
I am thrilled and delighted to hear this little girl is in mainstream education, as my daughter is. My dd additionally is in an electric wheelchair and has been since she was in reception. She is now 14.
OP, you are blessed beyond belief to have a little girl who is well. What the parents of the ventilated child will have got through to get to this point would make your hair curl. The care the child will no doubt have at home, as well as at school (my dd also has two people with her all the time), is virtually a full time job in itself. She will have had weeks and weeks in hospital, probably on various occasions. You should pray daily your child will never go through what this little girl does, every day.
And then you should get yourself into school and ask her round to tea. Her mother will love you for it.
Your dd cannot learn too soon how fortunate she is to be healthy, and to respect the sheer bravery of children like the one in her class. That should be your message to her, and any moans about the noise should be knocked on the head by you, the adult, at every opportunity.
I agree with the other posters saying talk with her about diversity, putting herself in the other girl's shoes etc.
However, if she is sensitive to this sort of noise, it very well might affect her learning. Repetitive noises are the worst if she has a processing disorder, I am unable to function with that sort of low-level repetition in the background. It becomes all I can hear and think about, and even when I can't hear it, I imagine I'm hearing it. I wonder if there was another source of white noise (fan, radio static etc) would your DD be able to tune it out?
If she does have some processing difficulties, best to find out now so she can learn to cope.
I was going to type a reasoned sensible response.
I decided no to bother.
OP your post is a pile of intolerrant, shit stirring twatwankery.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
It's not as easy as saying that child is unfortunate so you can't complain, some people are very sensitive to certain sounds and it's not the young childs fault for being agitated by it. She may have sensory issues that haven't been diagnosed yet for all anyone knows. You could ask for them to be on opposite sides of the classroom.
OP, are you taking the piss?
Why not ask the carers to turn it off, that'll shut her up.
What ventilatormum said far more eloquently than I could have done.
Just to reiterate - what the f* do you think the teacher will say?
I can see why the noise might be "annoying", but really??? You and yoir daughter need to appreciate you are fit and healthy.
Please dont say anything - you will come across to the teacher the way you are on here!
And they mostly play and learn that way- its not like it will impact on her a level exam - now that may be worthy of a comment - but reception? Really?
because this can't be serious. Well done for trying OP but not nearly subtle enough.
<goes and stands with hobnobs>
I should imagine that having to have to rely on a tracheostomy and an ventilator to stay alive is 'annoying' too. I know I 'wouldn't like' it - would you?
Oh I agree OP, I think the teacher should ask the child to stop breathing when the class are learning
I helped out in Reception last year doing reading. I had to sit in the corridor with the children I was reading with as the classroom was so noisy. I doubt very much this "low level" noise is affecting your dc as much as she is claiming...
YABsoooooU. I was going to have a rant, but there's no need. VentilatorMum put it so much better than I could have (& bought a tear to my eye as her daughter is so lucky to have such a calm, reasoned mum). Grow up OP.
Not sure if you live under a bridge or just horrible. Not sure which is worse. Actually, I am.
No reception class is quite, nor do they usually have assigned rigid seating. In a reception class i would be surprised any 'low level' noise could be heard.
But you know, how rude of the girls parents to want their child to have a main stream education when she dare have noisy equipment to keep her alive.
My DD1 also started in Reception last month. While she is loving it in general, so far she has told me that [child A] has a grumpy voice which is annoying and she doesn't like it and that she can see [child B]'s pants when they are sitting on the floor and that that's also annoying and she doesn't like it. It hasn't occurred to me to go to the teacher about either of these and ask for a solution, or to fret about the impact on her education; partly because she is a typical four-year-old being over-dramatic but also because learning to rub along in a community of disparate individuals is a big part of what school is about at this stage. Also, I would sound faintly unhinged.
I'm assuming here that your DD doesn't have a processibg disorder or other sensory issues that make this noise a legitimate concern; if she does then obviously getting a diagnosus will help in getting her needs met.
Have you ever been in a reception class OP?
It's like pre school but with uniforms. No sitting quietly - lots of colouring and running around and shouting with the odd bit of counting and Phonics.
If your DD can pick out the sound of a ventilator over that lot she is trying too hard. Even if she does have some sort of processing disorder, I should think the noise of 1 ventilator would be the least of her worries in a room full of excited 4 and 5 year olds. Wait until the inevitable screaming/squealing phase starts!
If it is still bothering her next year then maybe, just maybe you might be able to get away with asking for your DD to sit away from the noise but while she's still doing EYFS, there is no chance that this could be doing any damage to her education at all.
That poor child has overcome so much to be in that classroom and now she faces this
Being charitable here, perhaps your DD is struggling to express what she really feels about the ventilator? Perhaps she says its annoying and she doesn't like it when what she means is she's unsure and anxious? Perhaps she needs reassurance that the machine isn't hurting her classmate and that it isn't going to hurt DD. Perhaps she thinks that she will have to use a machine too?
Perhaps you, as her parent, should investigate what she's really feeling and help her get over it before you dump the monkey on the teacher's desk. As ventilatormum said, ask the classmate on a play date so that DD can familiarise herself with both the machine and the person behind it.
Jesus - how about teaching your dc some empathy. This would be a good time I feel.
Why on earth can't people ask what to do if their child is having trouble coping in class.... what level of problem does the OP have to have before it is valid to ask for something to change - perhaps the noise is unbearable to the OP's child -
I find repetitive noise to be so unbearable I have to leave a room - as it gives me palpitations - sorry, I guess I am lucky to be able to get up and leave - but I just DO NOT get that anyone with ANY sort of "problem"/disability/condition/illness cannot be "annoying" to someone else.....
If the OP's child has trouble coping with the noise, then her concerns are valid and need to be addressed - ok - there may be nothing that can be done, (as if ANYONE would suggest turning off the machine...) but at least an assessment of the classroom conditions would be done .... and it could be something simple like making sure the op's child is closer to the teacher than the machine.....
Sorry, don't believe this post.
sue me delete me
I can understand a reception child making a comment. They don't tend to know any better.
But I actually can't believe as the mother of a child and a presumably grown up woman that you would think this, let alone post it.
I hope this is not real. I really do.
Think Carabos makes good points. But I would add to say that I'm not surprised your DD has issues with the noise if she has been brought up by a mother who honestly thinks it's ok to complain about the detrimental effect on her child's education of another very young child's ventilator. FFS take a fucking look at yourself and sort yourself out so your daughter doesn't grow up like you.
ByTheWay - the OP's DD finds the noise "annoying" and says she "doesn't like it" but is otherwise happy and enjoying school, so it hardly sounds as if the noise is "unbearable" to her .
Bloody hell there's some officious, self-righteous, pity-party whinyarsery on this thread. The OP's child is 4 and distressed. The OP is asking what can be done. Maybe this DD does have some sort of sensory/processing issue, maybe she's frightened of the machine, she is 4 years old. Just telling her to 'learn some empathy' is not going to ease her distress. As BTW says, it's surely worth having a word with the teacher and seeing if perhaps the DD can move seats or something.
Other than that, I'm at a loss as to what to say, I'm so utterly gobsmacked at you unreasonableness.
Hello op, I think this is a classic example of how your dd reacts to something in life, or has a viewpoint, has a relation to the way in which you react to it.
The same scenario with my dc
You might not like it dc but just imagine not being able to breathe unless you have a machine. Imagine how hard it must be for the little girl to live with that noise all the time, day or night. Just imagine having to sleep with the noise of the machine.
From the sounds of your post, I just have this hunch you might be just absorbing her naive reception class aged comments rather than challenging them or getting her to be a more considerate person in the process?
I think your little girl might be bothered by the machine itself, you need to address that. It may be unusual and frightening to a 4 year old. "teach her some diversity" is the right approach but you would be more reasonable if you came on here and asked for help how to do that with a 4 year old, rather than address with the teacher - as everyone else has said, WFT is the teacher meant to do about it.
She's in reception FFS. Not doing her finals at Oxbridge. Have a good root around and try to find a) common sense and b) compassion. An accident of genetics or illness and that little girl could be your daughter.
Wow, as a teacher I have to say if a parent complained about the noise from a piece of equipment that was keeping a child alive I think I would stand there .
I'm afraid your DD will have to learn to cope with background noise. Even when my classroom is silent there is noise from PE outside, the grass being cut, the dance studio, DVD next door, someone kicking off on the corridor etc.
This is reminding me of a dc who kept telling my 4 year old to take her glasses off as they "made her look so stupid" but which she was unable to see without.
They are not too young to have these things explained to them.
I presume from your title that you realise this is "reasonable noise", so all you can do is explain why it's there and teach her some empathy for the other child. I can't see that it is likely to affect her education- reception classes are noisy anyway- so there's not much to say to the teacher.
In my albeit limited experience, having a child with obvious additional needs in a classroom, over time, can teach the other children something very valuable about sensitivity and understanding, and I have noticed that the year groups teachers in secondary schools tend to really enjoy are the ones who have learned these things through primary: I've heard staff comment on it quite a few times.
So I think you are worrying unnecessarily, really.
Matchpoint - have you considered a private school? This would give you more control of the enviroment and also smaller (quieter) classes.
I do have a degree of sympathy with you. My DS has ASD (but no statement, so no extra support) and I know he is disruptive in class. I am sure you aren't the only parent on the face of the planet who has asked a similar question... I am sure several parents in my DS's class have questioned his behaviour / noise levels / ability to concentrate etc)
The classes are manic. 30 kids. One teacher. One TA. Mental.
I chose to send my DD to a private prep where there is more support and fewer pupils (they currently won't take my DS)
Just an idea.
Yabvu what do you expect the school do about it, have her in a separate room because your precious dd does not like the noise, really op don't be silly. In time your dd will get used to it
I think this is an ideal opportunity to teach your dd about. Being tolerant and compassionate in the way that other posters have suggested. Yes she finds it annoying because she is 4 and has lots of social and emotional skills to develop. You as an adult can help her by explaining that the machine is very important for the little girl and that she needs to accept that some children need more help than others. My dd who has ASD and is obviously quite different is in mainstream school. Many parents have told me how they think my daughters presence has helped their dc to develop their social and emotional skills as they have learnt to accept her differences and have been happy to help her fit in. Please accept tis as a golden opportunity for your dd.
Cansu, yy, that's what I meant.
I didn't get "distressed" from the OP, sgb. I did get that the DD was "really enjoying herself" but complaining, but it's a bit of a reach from that to "distressed", especially as OP doesn't say "I am concerned that she is really very unhappy" or "I'm concerned that she really isn't coping well emotionally" or anything else that would indicate actual distress in the 4yo. Instead she says "I am starting to get concerned about the effect this may have on her education." If the DD were as distressed as you are painting her that would be a bloody odd thing for a parent to specify as her chief concern.
I agree - sounds more like "peeved" than "distressed". The main crux for the OP doesn't seem to be her DD's emotional wellbeing, but her own (baffling) concerns about a possible effect on her DD's education.
I personally would have responded very differently to an OP that said "My 4 year-old is irrationally distressed by the sound of another child's ventilator. What do I do to help her?"
But what I was actually responding to was an OP that said "My 4 year-old is annoyed by the sound of another child's ventilator and I am concerned about her education."
And in either scenario I would expect an acknowledgement from the parent that the child will need to be helped to reach an understanding of the other child's right to be in that classroom, rather than a question about whether she should approach the school.
I really hope there isn't someone reading this thread and thinking "I wonder if that is my 4 year-old? I wonder if all the other children hate her?"
A reasonable OP, to which I will give a reasonable answer.
My friends DD has a feeding tube and some of the children find that disturbing. That is not to say the children are wrong, or that my friend is wrong to allow her to go school with it. It is to say the children need educating and supporting to get through it.
Your DC needs help and suport to get though a similar issue. Ask the school for this, they should provide it, if asked for in a reasonable manner. If your DC needs this help, then so do others probably.
kung fu i agree, I do hope not. we have bent over backwards to explain dd's condition to her classmates, going in, explaining the equipment, when she was little letting every one practise on a teddy bear with a hole in its neck, and so on. All the kids get it so quickly, but probably there are parents who don't like the fuss; all i can say is, with a statement, as my dd has and the little girl OP refers to, I hope no extra teacher time is taken up by my dd, so everyone can learn. tbh the only time I even notice the vent is at the theatre when I try to get us put a long way from the other punters.
once the tube popped out from the machine at the cinema and one bloke rushed up holding his mobile so I could see to put it back. i have met no one who has not been fantastic to my dd so i fervently hope op will think again.
once the tube popped out from the machine at the cinema and one bloke rushed up holding his mobile so I could see to put it back
That bit made SadPanda cry. Don't know why.
don't cry sad panda, or I will too and that will never do. Must admit I now leave my mobile on, on silent, at the cinema just in case.
OP why don't you and your 4 year old watch the paralympics (on you tube or catch up tv)
You could use it as an example to explain how people that are disabled in one way are very strong in another way and the girl who has the ventilator needs to go to school to learn, the same as everyone else in the classroom does, so she can have the chance to achieve great things when she is older.
Don't have this girl moved away or pushed into a corner.
I also don't understand how this classroom seems to be full of quiet children, quiet enough to hear the ventilator? I have had four 4 year old children and not one of them was quiet at that age!
Do you think your dd might be a bit hypersensitive to this noise? It can't be that loud as the people who use the equipment have to live with it 24/7
Also - of your dd sits next to the little girl could they just pop your dd on another table?
I really don't think the OP was saying the child should be moved from the class or the ventilator turned off! I do find that people with no experience of sensory issues simply can't understand how disruptive some noises can be. I could easily hear a low, repetitive noise over the chaos of a reception class room. Mixed with the classroom noise, it would send me over the edge and leave me biting my nails and obsessively playing chuzzle on my phone. It wouldn't matter if it was a ventilator or a metronome or ambient music, it is impossible to tune out and I would not get used to it. Other white noise or ear defenders would help, or listening to my own music on headphones.
OP, talk to your DD, find out what the root of the issue is--is she scared as others have suggested or is she unable to tune it out as the other children do?
Even if the noise is bothering the op daughter. It is a vital machine and there is no alternative. children move around in a reception class and make loads of noise. the Op daughter will have to get used to it. It would be easier for her to get used to if the op helps her daughter understand the other little girls needs, rather than pondering on the possible long term implications of being bothered by the noise.
Wow, good thing I put on my flame proof clothing.
To those who wrote the rude, unhelpful posts, I sincerely hope hiding behind a computer screen and spewing vitriol at a stranger gave you the excitement that you are clearly missing in your life.
Thank you to those who wrote the reasoned, well thought-out responses. Your input was appreciated. It has certainly given me a lot to think about and mull over tonight-although having read every post, I am leaning towards the "DD2 needs to get over it" side of things!
Noticed you came back. Brave.
It's not that "DD2 needs to get over it", children at that age need to learn about differences and how we all have to give and take in life so that everyone can enjoy the same things. Children can be crass and at times seem rude about people's differences, that's normal.
Adult's not understanding about respect towards others and give and take isn't. Going to the teacher and presenting it as a problem would be beyond crass IMHO and show little empathy or understanding on your part.
Don't tell her to get over it, help her understand it, if you don't know what it does, ask! A polite question to the child's parent might be the best way here, "My DD is confused about your DD's equipment, could we ask what it does and how it works so she can understand it doesn't hurt your DD and is there to help her?" I'd look to ventilatormum for advice on that though. Play dates and familiarisation would be my choice of the way forward. Not only to help your DD in the classroom but for life in general.
Definitely try to speak to her Mum... a Mum in our reception playground recently organised a get together for the DC and Mums in the local soft play over the half term...it's a good way of all getting a chat and to know one another.
You could do that...and then see how the Mum is getting on with it all and mainly just give your DD the chance to get to know her.
It's really important that DC of all abilities get to mix...for both. My DDs get a lot out of all their friendships and smetimes, the parents of children with real difficulties can be very estranged from the others....people are afraid to mix with them...afraid to ask their DC on playdates...don't be afraid to get to know the child.
Really though, the teacher should help the other DC to understand about the ventillator as well.
Exactly what Kungfu said. I absolutely understand a 4 yo could find a breathing tube distressing, but that's not what the OP asked for help with, is it?
And ventilatormum. I actually don't have words for you. You rock.
I am going to wade in a bit here.
first I agree with ventilator mum, and thought that was an amazing very thoughtfully worded response.
BUT I think there maybe an issue here, and i am not talking about op's dc having sensory issues.
My dd2 has a problem with her throat which means she sometimes gets food stuck and then retches till she is sick. My dd1 and ds have seen it for years, but I rememeber one occasion when dd1 (about 5 at the time) got really distressed by her being sick. Shouting out horrible things 'it's disgusting, she shouldn't do that at the table, yuck yuck yuck' and so on. It turned out that she was very worried about 'catching' what dd2 had. Although she had seen it for about 2 years at the time, something in her had just worked out (wrongly) that illness is catching. We had to work with dd1 explaining what was wrong and give her the information to understand.
I do think that disability can be confusing for children, and it can generate fears and strange ideas. It is then our job as adults to ask what they are thinking, listen and explain to our children what is going on. They have genuine questions and we need to hear them and take them seriously.
OF COURSE the point is that we help our kids to understand, and help normalise the situation so that they can them become friends with the child in question, and it becomes part of everyday life.
and that may be not true at all and it is at the level of 'I don't like x because they are coughing' and she needs to get over it.
and my I also remember my friend being moved to tears the first time her ds was asked to a party. He has asd.
Firstly I thought Ventilatormum has written some fantastic posts.
Hats off to you for what you have managed to achieve for your DD.
I actually logged on to say what Stepmum has said - that your DD might not like the noise because she is scared. If the importance of the machine has been explained in terms of it being needed to keep this little girl alive then she might actually be worried it will stop...
When I practiced as a midwife I did have, on a couple of occasions have women who asked me to turn the sound off the heartbeat monitors as they couldnt bear it... and without fail when you delved they knew someone close who had had a stillbirth or had had a pregnancy loss themselves.
One thing you could try if it is really getting to her are ear plugs / ear defenders - these do not merely shut out noise anymore but rather you can get ones which filter out background noise.
With some gentle understanding support alongside 'you need to live with it' I am sure she'll be ok and she'll not even notice it soon.
I would suggest you 'keep leaning'.
Most of what I would want to say has been more than adequately covered by ventilatormum but there's one thing I wanted to add about your comment on the effect on your daughter's education. I was at secondary school with a quadriplegic girl in my class from year 7 onwards (so we shared classes for 7 years, up to and including a-levels) who needed carers to write for her, so when we had quiet lessons where everyone had to sit and get on with something there was always the sound of my friend dictating and her carer possibly asking questions. BUT, we all got on with our own work and learnt to tune it out and to deal with it because that is what you do in an environment where people's different needs have to be accommodated. This was a highly academic school and an environment where the noise could legitimately have been said to have possibly affected our education, but it would not have occurred to any of us for a second to have complained about it. We were obviously much older than your daughter but we understood perfectly that sometimes things cannot be exactly as we would, in a perfect world, want them to be, because we share this world with other people. This is a lesson that I don't think is too early to teach at age 4 and a lesson that is as important to learn in reception as anything else that is being covered in class.
For one thing it's a Reception classroom, she's not sitting an exam, and I seriously doubt it is ever quiet, she needs to get over it.
You need to teach her some consideration for others and perhaps learn some yourself while you're on.
OP, I think you are a very poor example of parenting.
However, has anyone considered that the OP's daughter may be saying that she finds the noise annoying and that she 'doesn't like it ' not because of the sound but because of the idea of having a tube stuck in your neck to breath with? That she is using the wrong words to describe her feelings of discomfort at seeing something she is shocked and surprised by? She may need support with that, rather than ear defenders.
Yes, she will have to overcome those feelings, and in no way should the child in question be tidied away so that the noise doesn't bother the OP's daughter.
I just wonder if the problem isn't as it first appears.
Or exactly what steppemum and DSD posted.
<applauds ventilator mum>
OP, your post made me angry (and no it's not whiny arse to feel fucked off with this kind of attitude, SGB).
What a fantastic opportunity to talk to your dd about disability, differences and why she's so lucky - that having a bit of a noisy machine in the classroom is nothing compared to what this child will have had to endure. Four is WAY old enough to understand empathy and to take on board all of the above. Talk to the teacher about talking to the kids about this little girl (with her parents' blessing).
To say 'I don't know why she has a breathing machine'...totally lame and a missed opportunity.
Talk about a situation where you really need to put yourself in someone else's shoes and think about it from the opposite way round.
I'm not often speechless OP but I am now. Your poor DD deserves a parent who will teach her some vital skills to get by in life. Pull your socks up. Forget talking about the teacher. Educate yourself and your child.
WHAT THE FLYING FUCK
you are moaning about a childs breathing tube
this must be the sickest thread ever.
What threesocks said
DS2 has a child on his table at school who has autism, he plays up every day and they get held behind (comp). It's especially difficult as ds3 also ahs 3 siblings with autism who basically rule our lives.
It's still get over it.
Well, I guess feel free to complain but expect to be mocked in the staff room.
Starting reception is a difficult time and full of nerves, ds4 started this year as well so I know this. If you run in every time something small comes up, you will end up with a breakdown. School teaches acceptance and tolerance, and indeed that other's needs can take preference sometimes
I agree with the posters who say that this is a good opportunity for your child to learn about disability and those who say that her concern may be about catching the disability or something bad happening to the child. These are things you need to look into carefully and see if you can inform your DD enough that her worries go away and she is able to 'tune out' the sounds and concentrate.
However, children in reception are playing and it is noisy but they are still learning which, to be effective, requires them to concentrate. It is possible that the low level noise from the ventilator is consistently disrupting your child's concentration. If it is, and it continues, it could very well have a long term effect on her education. Learning through play is just as important as learning through lectures.
Last night my DD1 who has AS and Sensory Processing Disorder could not concentrate on the tv or a conversation because of the very, very low level noise being made by a light bulb. Most people could tune that out very easily but it destroyed my DD's ability to concentrate and it made her anxious and angry. If this noise had been in a classroom she would not have learned a thing.
The fact that the noise in question is linked to supporting another child with a serious disability is very unfortunate as this thread demonstrates but it doesn't negate the problems it could cause for a child with sensory processing difficulties.
If I were you I'd Google sensory processing and hypersensitivity to sound and see if this could be the issue. If it is then your DD has a need which is also valid and the teacher should be expected to find a way to help her manage it.
Some possibilities would be ear defenders, giving her a space away from the sound to work in when she is finding it hard to concentrate, using some headphones with music or white noise to disrupt the sound, teaching her some relaxation techniques to help her accustom herself to the sound.
It is hard to tell from your post how severe this problem is for your DD but you can make that judgement and ask the teacher to observe your DD in the classroom to see if there is any evidence of it disrupting her concentration.
Firstly OP I am impressed you came back.
I don't think I've got anything more helpful to add except to reiterate what more wise posters above have said: talk to her about what is actually going on, teach her about disability and diversity and encourage her to talk to the little girl.
Now you've had heaps of advice from people like ventilatormum. what are you going to actually do about it?
wow you would really aske the teacher if someone breathing is affecting a child??
it is breathing.....
I think your comment about this child's life saving medical equipment possibly affecting your daughters education utterly disgusting.
You should be ashamed op.
I am leaning towards the "DD2 needs to get over it" side of things!
Only leaning?? Seriously OP, you need to get over yourself and thank your lucky stars you have a healthy DD!
I am literally at this and a bit as well that someone would even think like this.
What exactly do you expect them to do? Turn the machine off?
I'm afraid that your daughter is just going to have to put up with the noise, just like the child concerned has to 'put up with' the fact she's attached to this machine 24/7.
Maybe she could sit closer to the teacher if she's having trouble hearing them? Otherwise, this could be a useful lesson for her to learn some tolerance.
Surely, surely this is a reverse AIBU? I cannot believe anyone would seriously ask this question.
So, OP are you going to take her advice?
Glad you're leaning towards DD getting over it . Meantime you can try some attitude adjusting yourself.
Good luck to the wee girl on a ventilator. Classmates are probably a lot less problem than the parents of the classmates to children who need extra care.
This girl is likely to go through the school years with your dd. Can't you encourage a friendship? Invite her round to play?
Maybe your dd is a little fearful and it's coming across to you as she's 'annoyed' by it.
I know my own dc would be a little scared. But 5 mins spent with the person or a quick explanation, fears allayed, and it's on with playing.
From your OP My DD2 has consistently complained that the noise from the breathing machine is "annoying" and she "doesn't like it". So far, I have (nicely!) told her to get over it, but I am starting to get concerned about the effect this may have on her education.
I would have been gentle the first time she mentioned it, and explained why she uses it and that DD has to accept that there will always be distractions, and that the only thinng she can control is how she reacts to things, but the 2nd time- there would be no 'nicely'. You're not doing your daughter ant favours indulging her here.
I don't really get the level of vitriol being aimed at the OP for this.
DO all of you really think she is the only mother who has said something like this? She's not.
Shit happens. If the OP can't / doesn't want to deal with it, then that's the way it is. Life's not perfect. It could be that her DD does have some sensory processing issues which are making this a much bigger deal than we see it to be. Here's one: My DS finds it physically painful to have his hair cut... We all know that it doesn't hurt him, but he actually screams in pain when made to have a hair cut... I don't think he does it purposely. And yes, my DS lacks empathy. It's not something I'm going to 'teach' him anytime soon.
Fair enough, I progressed a DX for my DS to try and ensure that he wasn't simply labelled as some sort of naughty / horrid boy at school, but I am sure there are parents at that school that wish he wasn't there. In fact, I am damn full SURE of it.
It's perfectly within the remit of the OP to take her DD out of an environment in which her DD is struggling. Obviously, it is not acceptable (nor would it ever happen, BTW) to expect another child to be withdrawn because your child wasn't happy with them. But, as I said, that would never happen.
OP - You do need to look at WHY your DD finds this so difficult and also look at other options for her schooling / education.
MNHQ does not tolerate disablist views.....
And yet this disgusting thread is still here?
You are a disgrace.
I can't believe its still here either. Reported last night told that MNHQ are "keeping an eye",
I can't believe you were considering going into school. What solution??!!
My dd has a similar child at school, my dd has sensory issues and so the noise is very loud to her and "hurts" her ears.
But tough crap, she knows that the child needs the equipment to live.
Its not disruptive to her education, you cut the noise out after a while.
I'm baffled as to what solution you could possibly think of.
Dear oh dear me! you need to get a grip on reality OP you are a total disgrace!
Fucking disgusting that MNHQ will let this thread stay!......because its educational for other!!! get it deleted! its vile and stands to benefit NOBODY!
If after all the avice on here you are still concerned about the effect your DD education you can alway home ed then will be no have noise to complain about
OP, I don't actually think telling your DD to "get over it" is any more appropriate than raising it as an issue with the school.
You are her parent. For whatever reason she has a difficulty/lack of understanding about something she is going to encounter throughout her life, ie disability.
Why would you not talk this through with her, and perhaps take some of Ventilatormum's advice about how to help her understand better?
It seems like one extreme to another - either talk to the school because it is such a big issue, or tell herto get over it. There is a middle ground.
If I could 'like' your post Kungfu, I would
Sometimes get over it is the best advice.
Obviously for a 5yo, you phrase it differently. 'You're struggling to concentrate because of this noise, the noise isn't going to stop, so you need to ignore it'
But, Helpyourself - if the child has SPD (which I feel must play a part in this), then that is not the case. There are things my DS just cannot cope with.
Buzzing lightbulbs or air in raditors are two that freak him out completely.
There may be a reason that this frequency is so upsetting.
But at no point does it become anyone's problem other than the OP / OP's DD.
I can't imagine what kind of 'solution' you expect the school to provide. And it seems unlikely the noise is so loud that, for example, she can't listen to the teacher.
Move your daughter to another school if it's that much of a problem.
And as it happens I have what you'd probably call 'sensory issues' and always did as a child - I don't expect the world to be arranged for my convenience though, and I can't imagine a scenario where I'd expect someone to provide a 'solution' to a disabled child annoying me by breathing.
Just think for a moment about what you're actually saying here.
why is this thread still here?
It is vile and disgusting and very disablist.
If this child has SPD all the more reason to instil resiliance. Life is going to be unbearable otherwise. If you can't carpet the world, wear slippers.
Somewhere in that OP was a reasonable question ... (how do I help my DD adjust to a new situation that she is finding difficult).
But it was phrased in a manner that showed a complete lack of empathy for either the little girl involved or the people on these boards who deal with disabilities and their consequences on a daily manner.
Would the OP have phrased her question like this to a person with a disability who was standing right in front of her? Probably not. And yet she thought it an appropriate way to write on a public forum.
I find this very sad.
I find it even more sad that she can't see that she has done anything wrong.
matchpoint I think looking at your OP this comment is your biggest obstacle to finding a 'solution' (no idea why, none of my business I suppose) - your daughter has articulated her feelings about the noise as annoying because she doesn't understand it, and she is no doubt more worried about it than actually irritated. I doubt this is the most distracting noise in a reception classroom.
By telling her to get over it you have shown her that you too don't really understand it either which hasn't helped her feelings of discomfort about it, - and I'm sorry but you've had a thrashing here because you have come across with the attitude 'don't know why she's like that but it's not my problem, and it's causing my child distress', and have shown no compassion for the child herself.
You need to help your daughter understand it in simple terms, and that it's necessary for her classmate to function and be able to go to school like she can. She can breathe in and out without even thinking, she needs to know her classmate can't and needs help from this machine.
"If you can't carpet the world, wear slippers"
I thinks that's what the OP was asking. How does she help her DD to create these slippers and should she enlist the help of the class teacher?
The advice to instil resilience would be more akin to "If you can't carpet the world, go barefoot and put up with it."
There are strategies which help children with SPD. Telling them to just live with it because someone else is worse off is not one of them.
You can't make hypersensitivity go away. You can, however help children learn to create their own 'slippers' by finding ways to manage the stimulus and their responses to it. A reception child needs a teacher to help them develop these strategies.
If this is SPD, the child can't just ignore the noise because it is not socially acceptable to find it irritating due to the fact that it is there to help a child with a severe disability, nor is it a reflection of her attitude to the child.
If a problem like this is ignored and the child becomes conditioned to feeling stressed around her classmate it could affect how she views this child and others with disabilities in the future.
If the OP's child is seriously finding this noise a problem it is in everyone's interests to find a way to solve the problem. Clearly this solution must not involve imposing changes of any sort on the child with the ventilator. It is about helping the OP's child to find a way to manage her responses to the noise.
Op I am glad that you are taking this on board, people are a bit sensitive because this is a sensitive area, a few people on here inc myself have a child with disabilities. Now is a good time to educate your dd bout people in the world. That poor little girl has no choice but to have that ventilator that keeps her alive, it's not like she can switch it off or she will die. I don't blame your dd she is only 4, but you should know better. Put yourself in tat little girl parent shoes, a bit of empathy op
I am sure the op has disappeared now
The thing is, just because one person has a problem, it doesn't mean that everyone else just has to 'get over it', end of story. If a child has SN to the extent that s/he bites, kicks or thumps other DC, would you all be screaming and ranting at the parents of NT kids who wanted something done so their own DC weren't coming home scratched and bruised?
The OP's asking for ways to help her DD cope with a situation the DD is troubled by. She seems to be getting a mugging on here for not having remembered to apologise for having a healthy child when other children have physical or mental longterm issues.
She is getting a mugging on her because she is showing no consideration of the little girl with the breathing tube, she is just concerned about her little girl being bothered by it. Like someone else said, if she had posted the same OP but with a different title and a bit more understanding people would react differently.
You see I see 'wear slippers' as quite an encouragement! It's empowering the subject- in this case the OP's daughter, to see that she can't change what's going on around her, but that she can manage her own reactions to it and cushion the impact.
I am also impressed that you came back too OP. Kudos to you.
I do share Kungfupandas train of thought though-
" I personally would have responded very differently to an OP that said " My 4 year-old is irrationally distressed by the sound of another child's ventilator. What do I do to help her?"
But what I was actually responding to was an OP that said "My 4 year-old is annoyed by the sound of another child's ventilator and I am concerned about her education.""
This is why you have needed the flame proof clothing.
Also a few people seem to be misreading the OP. The OP says her child 'is really enjoying herself'. She is not distressed, she is not unhappy, she is not struggling. She's just irritated by something she doesn't like which doesn't impact on her happiness at school. Yet she still wants to complain about another child's breathing
Move your daughter to a new school/class and have a
Use this as an opportunity to teach your dd about disability and tolerance.
This is a lesson for her.
Please, please don't talk to the class teacher about this. It won't end well.
My son has SPD as part of his dx (in fact 2 of them do and one will probably get it sooner or later!)
But they need to learn that their needs are less than someone elses's sometimes
Now, that's variable: when the two older asd ones were in MS they had the most sever needs; in their Base placements it varies. Day to day, in fact. But whilst I can't stop them being bothered I can teach them how to handle it- acceptance of hierarchy of need is one (not an easy one mind!), appropriate ways to manage it as another.
So ds4 is in a MS reception class, and has a PECs card with 'sssh' on and another with 'help'; his verbal level drops right off under pressure (and talking to an adult is pressure for him) so we are using techniques such as this.
But- SPD is not merely being annoyed. It might indicate that, or a specific sensory issue (such as auditory difficulty) as part of a package but I suspect this is down to lack of exposure to people with additional needs, and the only way to address it is with exposure, discussion and example.
Your child is part of the reception year play curriculum: it's noisy there. If it's her only annoyance, it's not noise but inexperience. YOU are the person best placed to manage this.
" The OP says her child 'is really enjoying herself'. She is not distressed, she is not unhappy, she is not struggling. "
Yes but is she learning?
She's four years old and she's expressed in an appropriately immature way that she has a problem with something. She may not have used the exact language required to prove that it is affecting her education but it is still the responsibility of the adults concerned to look into what the problem is and determine whether or not she needs support.
If it just a minor irritation or worry about the complex equipment she can see the OP can make sure she understands as much as is appropriate for a child of her age and hopefully the problem will be resolved.
If this is SPD it could well be affecting and continue to affect her ability to learn so the OP probably needs to find more effective ways to help her.
Hully, you are so bad, you're good.
Solid that is a totally different situation, the girl is not hurting any children or harming them, she is oing what we all have to do to stay alive, breath
I can't believe the frothing outrage this thread has caused. I can't see anything here as disablist. I think all the OP is suggesting is should she ask if her dd can be moved, not lets bring in euthanasia.
I have tinnitus and misophonia and regardless of what causes the noise the effect is the same on my brain whether it is someone tapping their foot, loudly chewing or it was a machine supporting life. It is awful, i could never concentrate with this kind of noise, in fact it would make me want to climb out of a window just to get away from it. However, if someone had asked me to articulate how i felt at 4 yo i probably would have said it was annoying . And it wasn't diagnosed in me till my 20's (along with other conditions) so before then i just thought that's how everyone felt inside abut noise.
It is very hard to express (like migraines compared to headaches) to people because everyone says 'oh yes, it irritates me too'. But it just isn't the same at all.
I have been in tears when in a situation like an exam or on a train, and there is a noise like this. I hear it over everything else and, as another poster has said, you still hear it once it has gone, or it triggers ringing for hours. I have asked to move from being near photocopiers and things which make noise at work. AND NO i am not comparing something trivial to the importance of a breathing machine - but as i said earlier, my response would not differentiate from what the intention of the noise was.
Anyway OP, if you are still there, how does your dd respond to other repetitive noises? Have you tried desensitising her while she does other things at home? There are various web sites you could look at techniques to do this.
Despite what i have said, if she is like me, (and even if she isn') then she will have to try to learn coping mechanisms and it is very much her problem (just as mine is), you can't expect others to fit around you regardless of your reasons.
I hope this post makes sense, apologies if not, i have had 3 hours sleep in the last 28 hours and have a fractious baby on my lap!
Spuddy I have Asperger's so perhaps do have some idea what you mean, once something starts to break my sensory limits I break into fight or flight mode.
But we have no evidence here to suggest SPD except a child who finds one particular noise annoying. If there were I'd be first to be in here- my studies and research are in ASD, and SPD is very strongly linked.
But how do we know if a child has a sensory disorder without first trying to teach them to adapt to differences in society and observing whether they can? It's fairly integral. If all those failed there might be cause to check for SPD but at this stage it''s more likely child needs reassurance and experience to understand.
I agree about the coping mechanisms: they are everything aren't they? Even if it's quietly excuse myself or learn what to avoid.
Child needs her concerns addressed most likely due to the unknown. Tell her what is wrong and why the other child needs it. Tell her we are not all built the same and she is lucky And can breathe in her own but this other child can't and would be really poorly without it.
Alternatively if she complains of anything else noise wise disturbing her perhaps she has an auditory sensory issue and may benefit from ear defenders?
The OP's DD find the noise annoying and doesn't like it - it comes across as she is simply intolerant and OP didn't mention any other issues.
Strangely enough though, she hasn't been back in a while
was really moved by all the people who said such nice things about me and my dd. thank you.
won't add any more as steppemum expressed it all so well.
but do, do ask the little girl round and do ask the parents as much as you possibly can about the equipment and why it is there - i am very happy to explain anything to anyone who asks and I'd bet they will be too.
how quiet is a class full off reception children?
I am still at the op on this thread as she seems to have vanished without any apologies for disablist op
threesocks the noise level is often irrelevant. It is the type of noise which causes the problem.
Apologies for those I upset with my original OP. It was certainly not my intention to come off as 'disablist', and I do feel empathy for the little girl. Clearly, that did not come across, and for that I am sorry. I will take more time to write my posts in the future.
As several have asked, I can't say I have noticed DD2 being exceptionally oversensitive to repetitive noise-she wasn't very impressed by the loud building work next door earlier this year, but who would be? I'm fairly sure she doesn't have any kind of sensory processing disorder, but I will keep an open mind.
Thank you those who have managed to buck the trend of knee-jerk overreaction (it is quite clearly stated in my OP that I did not wish the child to be taken far away from other children; so to shriek that I must 'unplug the child' is unhelpful, to say the least), and respond with a reasoned and well thought out post is massively appreciated. It is very helpful-as you can tell, I am in unfamiliar territory here. Thanks again.
As an aside, can we maybe leave it a day before triumphantly declaring that I have scuttled off with my tail between my legs? I have neither the time nor inclination to check and respond to this thread on a hourly basis.
I am genuinely curious about what response you expected to get matchpoint.
Thanks for coming back.
I don't think you should be given a hard time for posting here; certainly better to gauge opinions online rather than talking to other parents or school. Also, and don't patronised by this, but many of the answers you're getting could be from people 20 years older than you and with specific experience.
I dread to think what I might have posted if Mumsnet was around
during the war a while ago.
OP you could also do with a little more empathy to those of us you upset with your thread.
I for one imagined another parent hotfooting it down to school to complain that my ds's clumping around in his walking frame or his broken speech 'would have a negative effect on their dc's education'.
Our disabled kids get quite enough shit on their plates generally.
Stating you 'don't wish the child to be taken away' doesn't mean you're empathetic. If you don't want harsh responses, don't post harshly. And most of the people who have 'overreacted' are people who have to deal with this shit every day of their lives. You just might want to think about these things instead of biting back.
I was so hoping this was a reverse AIBU.
Maybe your dd and other kids need the teacher to explain about the machine, with the help of the little girl. Bit like ashow and tell or something?
Matchpoint asked for advice but she was attacked with venom from many, which was not fair. The advice given by ventilatormum was ,however, kindly, helpful and very moving.
i am with Madmouse,
and how sad that the op still lacks any empathy
good for you coming back OP.
I know you have been blasted out of the water here, and as it is your first post, you are probably wondering what happened.
Firstly, the AIBU topic tends to encourage posters to express opinions strongly, and so I tend not to post in this topic about an issue I want advice with., just stuff I would like to debate.
Second, people are very, very sensitive to the wording of posts. Even if your intention is good, your wording will get you a blasting. It is at times very frustrating, as reasonable doubt doesn't come in to it. But the other side of it is that I have become much more aware of how my words and comments can be interpreted. (in RL as well)
I hope you won't be put off posting again.
So horribly entitled.
Wanting to BREATHE ffs.
What will these horrible disabled children want next?
(oh and it's not wanting an apology for having a healthy child - what a horrible assumption - it's the way the OP was phrased)
Sure talk to the teacher and let her see how unreasonable/selfish you are
no the op got blasted because she posted a vile post.....about a childs breathing
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