To have told my cousin to get a job rather than just living off the tax payer?

(66 Posts)
CrapBag Sat 06-Oct-12 08:13:06

My cousin is a bit of a layabout. She is 18. She did go to college but got kicked off the course after many many opportunites because she simply could not be bothered. She is the laziest person I know. She has never had a part time job because she never bothered and her mum didn't push her to get one ("whats she suppose to do" was her mums attitude yet her DS had to do paper rounds and get a job at 18 so he could pay rent hmm).

Now she was 18 a few months ago and was kicked off her course a couple of months before that. She hasn't been looking for a job, despite what she tells me. Her mum has the attitude of "I don't see why she should do that if she doesn't want to", which seems to be to any job but this was in response to my other aunt suggesting that my cousin try in a supermarket. She gives her money each week for doing bits of housework which she has raised as her DD doesn't have enough money apparently. Her mum has just taken her to the job centre to sign on. Her FB status said something about signing on so she "now has money lol" (her words). I said fine but I hoped she was looking for a job as living off the taxpayer was not a lifestyle choice. Ok, maybe patronising but as her own mother doesn't seem to give a shit if she lives off benefits, it bugs me when hard working people lounge about because jobs are not what the want to do, when they don't even know what the want to do. This is NOT benefit bashing at all. I only read in the paper yesterday about a man had applied for 900 jobs to try and support his GF and son but couldn't get anything but my cousin has applied for nothing.

She commented that she has to keep going to the job centre to sign on and do forms and she is looking so I shouldn't "piss her off". I suspect I hit a nerve because she isn't doing all she can and no one else seems to say it to her. She lays in bed until god knows what time then gets her mum to drop her over to her latest lad that she is obsessed with (and I do mean obsessed). Her looking would involve her looking at what is available and saying "I don't want to do that/I can't do that/I can't get there with her mum agreeing with al that she said.

I do know that it is nothing to do with me but when everyone else in the family just says things but no one will actually say it to her, I am the only person who will speak up. Her own mother is no help at all and has always 'let' her be lazy and totally bone idle.

catgirl1976 Sat 06-Oct-12 08:15:38

I think it's her DM you want a word with. She seems to have created this girls lack of ambition / work ethic.

altinkum Sat 06-Oct-12 08:17:49

It's nothing to do with you, I dislike the culture of the "lifestyle benefits" however she is only just turned 18, she has plenty of time to decide what is suitable for her...

CrapBag Sat 06-Oct-12 08:23:25

My other aunt has said it to her and her attitude is to get all snippy and just respond with "why should she". She doesn't listen and is the type of person who if you say something to, she will do the complete opposite (yes this is a woman in her 50's I am talking about, not a teenager).

CrapBag Sat 06-Oct-12 08:24:45

altinkum, she decided she wanted to do beauty, thats what she wants but she couldn't even be bothered to go to the course or do the work. If that was her attitude to something she actually wanted to do, then her attitude to something she doesn't is even worse.

mellowcat Sat 06-Oct-12 08:28:23

I wonder whether she has really low confidence and self esteem and perhaps it is all a front because underneath she doesn't feel she is worth employing.

WofflingOn Sat 06-Oct-12 08:28:29

It isn't your business.
If her mother wants to keep her and support her, then that is a choice that every parent has. If she's signing on, then she will have to attend job interviews and if she continuously gets sacked, then the benefits will stop.
She's 18 and been in education for 13 or 14 years, maybe she just wants to do nothing for a while until she finds something she feels interested in.
I don't understand why you are outraged at an unmotivated teenager that isn't yours, how old are your children?

Whitecherry Sat 06-Oct-12 08:33:37

What a family eh?

What with your husband ( just read op of other thread you just started) and this aunt and cousin.......

CrapBag Sat 06-Oct-12 08:34:13

My children are 4 and 1.

I guess I was brought up with the idea that not working was not an option. I had to get a really shitty job when I was 15 and I hated it, they were horrible to me and I got paid cash in hand, £2 an hour. After I got a decent part time job, I worked from then on. At one point I was doing 3 jobs to save some money.

I don't work now due to health reasons unfortunately so I do get annoyed when able people just refuse to.

I know my cousin well. She isn't taking time out to figure out what she wants to do after years of working hard at school or college, she just can't be bothered. That is her whole attitude. She isn't depressed or anything like that. A job would mean less time to chase around the latest lad on the scene.

I understand that some 18 year olds take some time out to enjoy themselves before deciding what to do with their lives but this is not my cousin. I do know her.

And I also said in the OP that I know it isn't anything to do with me, but it doesn't stop me getting annoyed by it.

CrapBag Sat 06-Oct-12 08:35:47

Whitecherry I also have a thread in relationships if you want to look at that too wink.

We could be on JK, with me cringing in the corner. Not all of my family though. I do have some decent members, some, well we really can't help who we are related to!

WofflingOn Sat 06-Oct-12 08:36:27

You've got one DS who is 5 and presumably still enthusiastic and keen to go to school. Let's hope he is still as shiny and positive when he's climbed the GCSE mountain and faces another ascent after that.
It is a decision that the teenager has to make, and it is between her and her parents.

WofflingOn Sat 06-Oct-12 08:38:36

I read the thread about your abandonment by your mother and I'm truly sorry that happened to you. However, your life experiences cannot dictate how other people choose to manage their families. You can be judgy, who on MN is not?
But IRL it is unlikely that your criticisms will change anything.

CrapBag Sat 06-Oct-12 08:40:28

Thats a good point Woffling.

Brycie Sat 06-Oct-12 08:42:46

I think you're right, definitely. No, I don't think you were being unreasonable to say that, it's free country.

newmum001 Sat 06-Oct-12 08:43:32

At 18 years old her mun can't force her to do anything. She won't get jsa for an unlimited amount of time. I think its 6 months now and during that time she will be sent on courses to gain skills and will be expected to go to interviews. If she fails to do any of that the money will stop. If it bothers you i'd delete her off fb and keep your distance tbh cause nothing you say will make a difference.

BigFatLegsInWoolyTIghts Sat 06-Oct-12 08:44:58

I'm just shock at the Mother "taking her to the job centre"

Why can't she go on her own ffs?!

Brycie Sat 06-Oct-12 08:47:07

By the way, re none of your business; it's not only your business, it's everybody's business who is a taxpayer, unless she stops claiming completely and lives off her mum.

WofflingOn Sat 06-Oct-12 08:47:51

Some mothers find it very hard to allow their children to grow up, as a primary school teacher I see a lot of mothers unwilling to let their children develop the appropriate level of independence, and there have been numerous threads about babied undergraduates with excessive parental input into their lives.

CrapBag Sat 06-Oct-12 08:48:12

BigFat exactly!! Part of the reasons why she may not be able to get to places is because she "can't get there". No they don't live in the back of beyond but a busy town with <shock horror> buses. God forbid she should need to take a bus.

WofflingOn Sat 06-Oct-12 08:48:38

'By the way, re none of your business; it's not only your business, it's everybody's business who is a taxpayer'

Then you change the rules rather than targeting on individual.

bangersmashandbeans Sat 06-Oct-12 08:55:13

Outraged at "she has plenty of time to decide what's suitable" and "maybe she just wants to do nothing for a while"...those attitudes are fine when her mother is supporting her but benefits are not there so 18 year olds can have a break after education. I say she needs to get her head down and start grafting and stop thinking the world owes her a living.

OneHandFlapping Sat 06-Oct-12 08:58:53

Of course this is CrapBag's business. This is her cousin, not some random acquaintance. Who wants to see a young woman, who should be at the most exciting point in her life, beginning to sink into a slough of dependency/boredom/depression?

Brycie Sat 06-Oct-12 08:59:31

Woffling; that's only if you believe in abdicating personal responsibility until someone tells you what to do or what not to do. I don't believe in that.

CecilyP Sat 06-Oct-12 09:17:27

It's not really any of your business and nothing you say is likely to make a difference. Yes, she does have it easy because her mum is supporting her, and the benefits she will now receive will really just be pocket money. She is not unusual; loads of young people have a break between college and finding a job - it certainly doesn't mean that she will never work for the rest of her lives. Now she is signing on and in the system, there will be a bit more pressure to actually look for a job.

dysfunctionalme Sat 06-Oct-12 09:19:00

From your description of your cousin, you could lecture her till you're blue in the face and it would make not one jot of difference.

So I think you are wasting your time, and infact being quite unpleasant.

Your cousin's attitude has a lot to do with the way she has been raised. You cannot change this. You can however try to be supportive of any efforts she does make. At the moment you sound like a bit of a nightmare.

Soditall Sat 06-Oct-12 09:25:22

I know how you feel.I have an 18 year old niece who decided to not bother at school,didn't stay on for six form.

My poor brother(he's really ill and still working even though he shouldn't be)supported her when she said she wanted to go to college and study hair and beauty.He spent a small fortune buying all the bits she needed.She lasted a few months and then quit.

Since she was 16 she's flitted through a few months at college,a few jobs she's lasted at for a couple of days to a few weeks.

It really worry's me an annoys me,this has been going on for 2 years now.

I'm disabled now and seriously ill,I'd love to be able to work.

Your aunt really needs to give her daughter a push in the right direction because there's no saying this will be short lived.My brother was sure when they gave my niece all they're support for college and she was so keen that it would last,2 years later and nothing has stuck.

My 16 year old is in 6 form now studying and helping teach another girl in his year English(not her first language) and he's going on a course to help the community in the holidays and looking for a job.So it's not all young people.

Whitecherry Sat 06-Oct-12 09:26:42

Anyway, the jobcentre will sort her out.... She will be forced onto courses and to apply for jobs..... Or her miney ( which she will now start to rely on) will be stopped

Whitecherry Sat 06-Oct-12 09:27:02

*money!

Brycie Sat 06-Oct-12 09:27:24

It's your business. If you're working, your'e paying what Cecily calls pockt moneyt. It IS your business.

littlemisssarcastic Sat 06-Oct-12 09:33:56

How does your aunt find the time to drive your cousin around, if your cousin refuses to get a bus?

fuckadoodlepoopoo Sat 06-Oct-12 09:34:47

The main thing that pops out at me is that the son and daughter are treated differently which i find disgusting.

OhDearSpareHeadTwo Sat 06-Oct-12 09:41:36

she is only just turned 18, she has plenty of time to decide what is suitable for her...

I went and got a waitressing job at 18 when I dropped out of university. My Mum & Dad made it very clear that they expected me to contribute to the household and pay my own way in life. It wasn't what I wanted to do (in fact I had no idea what I wanted to do). It turned into a career that lasted for 10 years and still brings me in £150 a week for a "weekend job".

If you can't be arsed to get a job how will you find what you want to do ? And if she is 18, lazy, has no qualifications and no experience she's not exactly going to be embarking on some glittering career, is she ?

FunnysInLaJardin Sat 06-Oct-12 09:42:49

I think that you should let her get on with her life and you get on with yours. It really isn't anything to do with you

I'm a bit gobsmacked that people think its normal for teenagers to take a bit of time doing nothing while they decide what they want to do. Is that really commonplace? Genuine question btw, never heard that before. Nobody I know signed on after school or college so they could have a break. A lot of people took a while deciding what they wanted to do but took jobs in bars or wherever in the meantime. I worked in an egg factory and a chinese takeaway while I decided what to do.

Its a difficult one. I understand that she doesn't want to do a job she isn't interested in but sometimes you have no choice. Exdbil always felt that it was beneath him to work in a low paid job and kept applying for 'good' jobs even though he has no experience. He's 28 now and has never worked, doesn't understand that there are people with 10 years more experience applying for the same jobs and is living with his parents. He gets no benefits now and is completely dependent on family. At this stage he will struggle to get even a minimum wage job. I really think that the only person who can change it is your cousins mum. As long as she gives her money she has no incentive to earn her own.

OhDearSpareHeadTwo Sat 06-Oct-12 09:49:46

It's everything to do with all of us that pay tax, Funnys. It really pisses me off that I pay a fortune in tax to support people that, for want of a better word, can't be fucked to even try and get a job. DH work all hours under the sun to try and improve our lot in life, I work 24 hours in a just-above minimum wage job on top of my normal job so that we can do more than just pay the bills. So I know what it is like to work in a physically hard, shittily paid job - in fact I did it all my life until I joined the police. It really grates on me than 20% of that extra income I work had to earn goes in tax to support people like the OP's cousin

People with disabled children are having their benefits and amenities cut all over the place while workshy "youth" who can't be bothered to get up in the morning get given money for doing absolutely fuck all.

BigFatLegsInWoolyTIghts Sat 06-Oct-12 09:49:53

My nephew is 23 and has a job in a pub...but his Mother does his shopping and takes it to his house on the bus! I expressed some shock and my Mum defended it to the hilt.

my Mum never did MY shopping when I was bloody 23! I was on my own in London, going to Uni and working in a terrible nightclub in Covent Garden!

Soditall Sat 06-Oct-12 09:53:43

legsinwoolytights do you think it's because he's a boy!

When I was 16 I worked full time and gave my parents nearly all my wages mean parents!I also did jobs round the house and did the shopping,guys the same age I worked with gave they're mum's about £20 a week and were waited on by they're mums.I was paying £150 a week

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Sat 06-Oct-12 09:55:12

I have a couple of cousins like this, it is actually embarrassing to be related to them. They had babies deliberately to avoid having to get a job, as did many of the friends in the area they live in.

Their Mum, my Aunt, is as hard working as it gets, but I blame her entirely. I think she always worked so hard doing shitty jobs to the point that it is actually bad for her health, that she never wanted her children to have to live like that and has passed on an attitude that they are too good for cleaning work or shelve stacking at Tesco.

There is nothing anyone else can do about the choices that adults make. I just hope the current benefit reforms go far enough that people who are simply lazy don't get given that option any more.

Timetoask Sat 06-Oct-12 10:03:14

she is only just turned 18, she has plenty of time to decide what is suitable for her...
Surely not the right attitude to have when you have no experience.

So according to you, whilst lying on the sofa she will suddenly get a message from heaven telling her what to do? You don't just find your interests by doing nothing. Shame her mother is not encouraging her more.

BigFatLegsInWoolyTIghts Sat 06-Oct-12 10:06:10

sodit it could be! If I moan about DH not doing things or doing them badly, she says "Well he's a MAN.....they just don't KNOW about certain things."

angry

Whitecherry Sat 06-Oct-12 10:07:41

She has been kicked off numerous courses......she needs a shortt,sharp,shock.....she is after all,an adult!

YouMayLogOut Sat 06-Oct-12 10:15:49

> I think that you should let her get on with her life and you get on with yours. It really isn't anything to do with you

^ This.

Brycie Sat 06-Oct-12 10:17:19

I don't mind people getting on with their life in a lazy way so long as my children aren't paying for it! As they are, I do, and it most definitely is to do with all of us.

marriedinwhite Sat 06-Oct-12 10:18:19

It is the business of every taxpayer in the country. The girl is 18; she is fit and well; she is not working. It is her choice not to work but having made that choice she should not be receiving benefits. She has put nothing in; she has a home; she has parents on whom to depend. If the parents don't want to afford her the luxury of deciding and having a little break then I don't see why the taxpayer should.

BTW I have an 17 year old (almost 18). He is at school. He has an allowance. He is able to earn about £50pcm to top up his allowance by doing a bit of babysitting. In the holidays he can pull down £50.00 a morning by caddying - because he got himself on the list; is reliable and prepared to turn up at 7.30.

sashh Sat 06-Oct-12 10:18:54

YANBU

Print of a screen shot and send it to the job centre. If she is not ill then it is a condition of her benefits that she is seeking work.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Sat 06-Oct-12 10:20:41

soditall 150 a week! I think that's extortionate. You could have got a mortgage for that!

TakeMyEyesButNotTheGoat Sat 06-Oct-12 10:23:35

My step sister is just like your cousin OP.
She's 22, never had a job and quit her college course after 2 months. Now she's pregnant after TTC with her boyfriend who also has never worked (he's 23).

She keeps banging on about why she hasn't been given a house (but she has been given a flat) and why should she have to climb 2 flights of stairs at 30 weeks pg.

Very entitled girl. But I blame my father and step mother. They are life long benefit claimants who actively encourage their children to try and get everything for nothing.

I'm so thankful I was brought up by my DM, a single working parent to 4 children. My brothers and I have a strong work ethic.

My other step sister has 5 kids, never worked or been to college but the job centre has just made her boyfriend get a job! grin

fuckadoodlepoopoo Sat 06-Oct-12 10:25:33

If I moan about DH not doing things or doing them badly, she says "Well he's a MAN.....they just don't KNOW about certain things."

Uergh . . . I had a friend recently being shocked when she asked if i raise my boy differently to my girl and i said no of course i bloody don't! It started as a conversation about who does the housework where it became cleared that she thinks women should do it all even if they work full time. I was so shocked because even though i knew she was a little old fashioned i didn't realise it was that extreme. So she is raising her children to believe that women wait on men. confused

RobynRidingHood Sat 06-Oct-12 10:25:54

This is why they should stop benefits to under 25's that live at home and have never worked. Go the whole hog and stop them for those who are quite capable but have never worked. popping babies out and giving them the same level of disaffected, disengaged me-me-me attitude isn't a job, although I know a few who think it is.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Sat 06-Oct-12 10:30:26

My son hase been raised by two parents who have worked since their teens. His dad works despite having a serious disbility. The only time he has seen me not working was when I was caring for his sister and in the aftermath of her death.

We have a very strong work ethic.

He however is a lazy arsed teen who thinks the world owes him a living. He is almost 19. He thinks it is fine to be on benefits for a while and finds all kinds of excuses as to why he can't get a job just yet.

We shot oursef in the foot somewt as we have bought him up not o expect expensive clothes and gadgets etc. so he doesn't miss tem now he as to ay for them himself hmm

So don't put he ame on the arenas. It's not always the case. Lots of more affluent teens are any, entitled feckers but the get away with it because they are at uni or being ailed out by their indulgent parents.

My son is a lovy lad and I am hopeful that our influence and my motherly advice of 'get a job you freeloading slacker' everytime I see him will kick in soon.

( he has just started a bit of bar work so - yay!)

BigFatLegsInWoolyTIghts Sat 06-Oct-12 10:35:24

MrsDevere I went through a lazy phase...I had a Sunday job at 17 and dropped out of college....the tenner I earned as enough to go out on Friday night to the pub (can you imagine!)

And that was all I did! I did get it together and get a proper job and then onto Uni in the end.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Sat 06-Oct-12 10:38:56

Well done for deciphering that post bigfat grin

I am off to find a bloody laptop!

BigFatLegsInWoolyTIghts Sat 06-Oct-12 10:41:58

He'll pull it together...like you, my Mum and Dad both worked and didn't spoil me. It takes some kids a while to get there I think.

TidyGOLDDancer Sat 06-Oct-12 10:48:20

This absolutely is your business, she is a family member, and clearly it needed saying. If this kind of behaviour goes unchallenged, overtime it becomes more accepted and seemingly okay. It's really not.

Soditall Sat 06-Oct-12 10:55:00

doodlepoo so do I but sadly I was very much a do as I'm told by my parents even though what they asked for was ridiculous.They had more of my wages than I did.

My children are thankful that I'm not like my parents were.smile

CecilyP Sat 06-Oct-12 10:55:05

Honestly, MrsDeVere, it won't last forever. Now he has a bit of work, he will probably find some more - or decide that is not for him and want to go to college. Having long spaces between school/college and work is a sort of prolonging of childhood; you don't have much money when you are at school, so you still don't need much when you are older and could be earning.

Regarding OP's cousin, everyone is saying that it is their business as taxpayers, but from what has been has posted, it doesn't look like she will have received her first payment yet. Of course, her mum will be prolonging the situation by allowing her to keep the money, rather than taking most of it off her to pay for her keep.

I hate "benefit bashing" on here. And I opened this thread with the intention of rolling my eyes and then hiding it.

But I agree with the OP. It is people like her cousin who give the genuine hard working people who find themselves on benefits a bad name.

I got a shitty weekend job when I was 14 getting paid £2 an hour for back breaking work. I worked until I had my DD. I was then forced out of work due to childcare issues. My DP has worked on farms and doing odd jobs since the same age. He went and got plenty of qualifications while working.

Being young is no excuse. At 18 people should be out doing any job so that they can find out what they want to do and what their skills are.

And the difference between girls and boys that some people were saying about, that was the same in my house. My brother didnt work until he was 19 and even now pays a tiny amount of rent while my mum waits on him hand and foot.

Its not always down to the parents. But if they encourage laziness at 18 then they have to be held accoutable.

lilyliz Sat 06-Oct-12 11:15:13

just wait ,if your job centre is like ours it won't be long before they have her so busy going on courses to find employment she may decide work would be better.

mrsminerva Sat 06-Oct-12 11:17:58

CrapBag YANBU. There seems to be no shame in some people.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Sat 06-Oct-12 11:22:27

Well he just walked in and told me he got the sack last night and didn't get paid for last week hmm
So he is applying for full time jobs today.

Good job they are online, he needs a wash.

BoffinMum Sat 06-Oct-12 11:32:11

When my DD had a go at doing this loafing about thing, I made her go to the local library, develop and print out a CV on their computers, and then I marched her along the high street leaving copies of it at cafes and restaurants. After half an hour of doing this, she had her first interview, and they offered her some part time work on the spot, offering to give her training as well. I then gave her a small amount of money to pay her fares and lunches during her first week, bought her some trousers for work, and put £10 on her mobile phone, and then told her the finance tap was now turned off. Concentrates the mind wonderfully, having no money. She did pretty well in that job and they promoted her. She has had two promotions since and now has an excellent job, two years down the line.

That's what parents should be doing for their kids, if they love them, IMO.

littlemisssarcastic Sat 06-Oct-12 11:35:27

BoffinMum Totally agree!!

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Sat 06-Oct-12 11:41:22

Mine doesn't live at home and I do not give him money.

YerMaw1989 Sat 06-Oct-12 11:47:43

Although I can understand your frustration at her lack of ambition.

I think you know ,You were totally out of line to post something like that on her FB .
I'd have torn you a new one and told you jump off the far end of fuck, and quite rightly.
FB is not where you get to have snide digs at people publicly, if the expectation is for her to behave like an adult then you must do the same I'm afraid.

but not much you can do.

Brycie Sat 06-Oct-12 12:00:58

Some people live their lives on facebook though don't they.

WofflingOn Sat 06-Oct-12 15:04:02

' I just hope the current benefit reforms go far enough that people who are simply lazy don't get given that option any more.'

Exactly that. Until the rules change, there will continue to be a huge number of people thinking they are too good to do menial and unskilled jobs, and parents willing to indulge that arrogance. The claimants are not doing anything illegal.
I still don't think it is the concern of the OP.

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