To think if you dated someone whilst they smoked you can't give ultimatums based on it?(long).

(54 Posts)
YerMaw1989 Fri 05-Oct-12 15:45:09

okay I started from being a very young teen (12ish) (not uncommon when& where I grew up so I;m not trolling/shock factor etc).

I met my DP at 18 , still smoked not heavily I add and I was courteous to not smoke a lot around him. I fell pregnant not long after I quit smoking cold turkey at 19.

its been 3 years now with the odd lapse fag I have never bought a packet etc , because I was told 'if you ever smoke again its over!' it sort of scared me (not sure if its the right word) into not smoking again but tbh (controversial) I wish I had on some level.
I was very ill for the first few years of my DC's life PND, Faulty contraception made me bleed constantly to the point of anaemia, I have anxiety due to a v. volatile childhood. plus contending with a SN toddler alone mostly. I wish I could go back and give myself permission to 'have a fag woman give yourself some sanity' I know its v. unhealthy I'm not negating that.
I'm not smoking/drinking atm (prego)
But I made it very clear the other day that,
a) If I have a bad day and I want a fag, I will have one.
b) if you dated me whilst smoking then you can't really hoik your bosom about it.
To add I would never smoke in the house/inflict it on my kids in that way I feel quite strongly about that.

WIBU?AIBU?

Bunbaker Fri 05-Oct-12 15:53:25

It's a difficult one. I'm afraid that smoking is a deal breaker for me. I don't think you realise just how unpleasant is is for your partner - the smell is utterly repulsive to non smokers. I have only ever had one boyfriend who smoked. At first I could get past that, but eventually the smell just got to me and he went.

Sorry, not what you want to hear, but fag ash breath is a passion killer.

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Fri 05-Oct-12 15:54:28

Well I do agree with you to an extent, but on the other hand surely anyone has a right to end a relationship if they are not happy with the other persons behaviour

So if it really bothers him that much then he would be within his rights to end things, but you are also well within your rights to smoke if you want to

He doesn't have the right to nag you and control you though so I suppose it depends how serious he is about leaving you if you smoke

well it's a bit different isnt it....dating someone when you are young, you fall in love warts and all and for the first part think the sun shines out of their arse!!

Fast forward into a settled relationship, trials and tribulations of everyday life, kids etc and health problems - of course your partner is entitled to not want you to smoke and carry on about it - they have a deep love for you now, know smoking is ultimately harmful and therefore would like you to stop.

Dating/meaningful relationship totally different.

However, I am a bit biased really since watching my non smoking mum die of lung cancer. I dont get why anyone smokes knowing it will probably kill them!

Caerlaverock Fri 05-Oct-12 15:56:34

Presumably he really cares about you as his partner and mother of this children and does not want you to die of cancer or watch you drown to death with emphysema. What a cunt leave him

Smeghead Fri 05-Oct-12 15:59:51

YANBU

Would he accept you telling him that if he ever has another alcoholic drink then its over? Alcohol is incredibly damaging to physical and mental health, so by his standards YWBU to say that.

And you might want to remind him that if he is chucking ultimatums around, then one day you may well take him up on it and tell him to sling his hook!

Smeghead Fri 05-Oct-12 16:01:03

I should add that I dont think this is about his reason for not wanting her to smoke, but about the fact that he thinks he has the right to forbid her to do something under threat of leaving her.

Whether it is smoking, drinking, shopping, farting, whatever, no one has the right to tell someone else what they are and are not allowed to do.

LilyCocoplatt Fri 05-Oct-12 16:01:14

I think YANBU, if he was happy to get into a relationship with you knowing you were a smoker he doesn't have the right to be making ultimatums to you about it now, it does sound like he is controlling. I understand that he dislikes smoking for very good reasons but it can be a sanity saver in stressful situations like yours sounds.

TheOldestCat Fri 05-Oct-12 16:01:46

Really tricky one for me. I agree it's up to you and it feels wrong for your partner to issue an ultimatum about something that is up to you.

And yet. I'd be furious if DH started smoking again. He was a smoker when we met and despite finding it revolting, I never nagged him. Not once (took considerable and uncharacteristic will power).

He gave up when his sister died (seeing people smoke outside the hospice shocked him), but has had the odd sneaky one over the years. I do believe he's finally kicked it, but if I found out he was lying about it again - or simply doing it and being honest - I'd be really annoyed.

LittleBairn Fri 05-Oct-12 16:04:30

YANBU
1. You were a smoker when you both met.
2. He's emotionally blackmailing you, sounds like he is very manupitive to me.

I'd be telling him of you continue to treat me like this I will pack your bags for you.

Smeghead Fri 05-Oct-12 16:04:31

Oh and nicotine is known to have anti depressant properties btw.

Treblesallround Fri 05-Oct-12 16:06:29

Have a fag woman, give yourself some sanity grin

Dh gave up 10 years ago. I didn't. We still love each

<lurks round bikeshed with fags and lighter>

FredFredGeorge Fri 05-Oct-12 16:10:46

Everyone does have the right to leave if there's something they don't like about a relationship. It's the only right you have over someone elses behaviour surely?

So spelling it out, I'll leave if you continue ... is reasonable. Not allowing for lapses, alternative means of achieving (never in same location, clothes cleaned seperately, mints used etc. etc.) is not that nice, but it's still the right.

Forcing people to live with everything they decided when first dating is not reasonable I'm afraid - if you cooked your DH breakfast every morning he stayed while you dated doesn't mean you have to cook him breakfast every morning now you're married.

DontmindifIdo Fri 05-Oct-12 16:13:25

Well, I am now married to a non-smoker who was a smoker when I met him, however he'd quit before we moved in together. If he suddenly now started smoking again I'd be most pissed off, firstly I hated how it made me smell when I was round him (he quit jsut as the bans came in so suddenly I could have nights out without having stinky hair hte next day), and we have a DS who I'd hate to see his Daddy smoking and give him the impression it's an acceptable thing to do.

Plus, now, it kind of looks cheap and tacky, because so few people smoke anymore. I think I'd be embarrassed to be seen with him smoking.

Now, for you, I could be missing something, but surely the reason smoking calmed you down before was that you were addicted to nicotine, and each fag gave you a hit of that which would calm you down because you were slightly withdrawing from it. As you are no longer addicted to nicotine, you'd have to smoke enough to get addicted again in order for the act of having one fag to give you that feeling.

So unless you want to be a smoker again, smoking regularly, I can't see that there's much point in having one or two fags on odd occasions. It's not like they will help you, plus your DCs will then have those chemicals on them when you hold them.

Fishwife1949 Fri 05-Oct-12 16:15:15

I do agree i hate smokers i will never date somone who smokes also i wont have it in my house garden or back garden

I have lost friends over it but i am happy with my choice

Smoking is vile is harmful espically to children start up again your right but

I wouldnt want to tell my kids i wanted to smoke more than you have a dad around

I would not stay with somone who smoked and i would be vary warey of somone even who had stopped

ClippedPhoenix Fri 05-Oct-12 16:15:25

I'm a smoker and if anyone gave me an ultimatum like that I'd pack their bags for them.

Yanbu I wouldn't be happy with the ultimatum, maybe give him a few and see how he likes it.

Smeghead Fri 05-Oct-12 16:17:47

There is a difference between saying "I dont want to live with a smoker so if you are considering starting again, please consider that it could mean the end of our relationship" and "If you ever smoke again its over!"

For a start, it doesnt allow for any slip ups at all, and everyone slips up sometimes. dieters scoff a bar of chocolate sometimes, ex smokers have the odd fag sometimes. Its also quite an aggressive way to put something, it is a threat not a discussion of how someone else feels. To threaten to end a relationship over one cigarette is controlling and OTT imo.

Petsinmyputridpudenda Fri 05-Oct-12 16:17:49

Yanbu
I quit but dh still smokes, it's his choice.

halloweeneyqueeney Fri 05-Oct-12 16:19:02

I think YABU, DH and I met when we were uni students, both of our behaviour was normal for young uni students, but a few years down the line, a kid and a bun in the oven later, a shared home and shared bills now, no it would not be appropriate for either of us to do some of the things we used to do when we first met! we met as kids with no kids and no big responsibilites and now we're adults with a home to run and kids to raise so the boundaries of course change!

Onemoreforgoodmeasure Fri 05-Oct-12 16:21:29

You both have a right to ask for what you want. You both have a right to draw lines where they matter to each of you. So it's for you each to decide. If you could really seperate over this then it certainly sends a very powerful message back to each of you.

maddening Fri 05-Oct-12 16:22:21

Do you think you feel this way so that whenever you choose not to have a cigarette it is your choice and not because you have been banned by someone else -if so then you should say this to dh.

DontmindifIdo Fri 05-Oct-12 16:31:55

Quick question, you started smoking at 12, did you grow up in a house with smokers? the only people I knew who started that young had parents who also smoked so they could steal fags from them and their parents couldn't smell it as DC of smokers always smell a bit smoky even if their parents think they are being careful to smoke away from them do you want your DCs to smoke when they are 12?

Lambzig Fri 05-Oct-12 16:33:14

I am not sure. When I first dated DH he smoked - a lot, 20-30 a day. I always said I didnt like it, but liked him and it was up to him. When we were getting serious and thinking about moving in together, I said I didnt want to live with a smoker and didnt think I could live with smoking in my home, but it was OK if he wanted to smoke outside/socially etc. He decided to give up instead, but it had to be his decision.

YerMaw1989 Fri 05-Oct-12 16:51:29

Thanks for the replies I've thought about them all. I can see his point. He Dont like smoking. and he grew up in a very smoky environment , strange enough nobody in my House smoked.plus I quit but spent every day longing for a fag. Kimono the complete ban did more harm than good plus I'm more pleasant to be around and less constantly stressed. I used to be much heavier smoker but cut down when I met him. I'm a smoke when I need it kind of person but when I need it I really do. Like the back of my neck tenses up etc even nearly 4yrs down the line I still get it.

L

GoldenSeptember Fri 05-Oct-12 16:57:28

I love how everyone on this thread is accusing the OP's DP is being controlling and unreasonable to say it's over if she takes up smoking again, whereas there's a thread in relationships where a woman is being totally supported in issuing the same ultimatum to her DH about his drinking! Double standards much?

If you have given up smoking, don't smoke. It's as simple as that. Having an occasional fag won't relax you because you aren't currently addicted to nicotine. It will make you feel spinny, jittery and a bit shit, which will take your mind off whatever you were angry/upset about for a little while. You could achieve the same effect by spinning round and round after drinking some very strong coffee, then rubbing your fingers in something that smells disgusting. wink If you want to have a cigarette that makes you feel better, then you need to become a nicotine addict again. Don't worry, that's easy to achieve if you start having the odd fag - very soon you'll be smoking all the time again. I know; I did that whole routine hundreds of times over. smile

I bet what you really want is a little break - removing yourself from the stressful situation/your toddler, getting a breath of fresh air (assuming you go outside or lean out of the window to smoke) and a change of scene for a minute, and having a briefly pleasurable sensation. You don't need a fag to do those things - just make a cup of tea, stick your head out the window/door and take a few deep breaths and have a square of chocolate. You won't feel full of disgust and self-loathing afterwards either (or maybe that was just me grin).

I don't blame your DP for his ultimatum. Smoking is incredibly expensive, dangerously bad for you, affects your child and partner, is repulsive to everyone else and is utterly, utterly pointless. Haven't you got better things to spend that money on?

Smeghead Fri 05-Oct-12 16:58:08

Allen Carrs "Easyway to stop smoking" is good at helping you lose that feeling that you are missing out when you cant have a fag. I am sure there is another one too called "Easyway to stay stopped" or something! Possibly that is aimed at people who are like you, occasional smokers.

He says that people who are strict with themselves and rarely smoke are often the ones that find it hardest to quit, as they have awarded such high importance on the odd the ciggie they do have.

I am sure I still have my copy of the first book (and might have a copy of the second, I seem to recall buying it when I had a major wobble and fell off the wagon! If I did, then I didnt read it!) and you are welcome to them if you would like them smile

Smeghead Fri 05-Oct-12 17:01:34

a woman is being totally supported in issuing the same ultimatum to her DH about his drinking! Double standards much?

I dont think it is double standards, as a drunk person affects everyone around them. They can be violent, aggressive, loud, sick....etc. But the OP doesnt smoke in the house, doesnt smoke around anyone and is aware of the fact that if she did, then it would affect other people. She cares about that but the drinker you refer to doesnt care, so imo there is a big difference.

And btw telling someone that they stink, that they are killing themselves and others, its expensive etc has never worked at getting someone to quit. If it did then there would be no smokers left in the world. Smokers know all that, and its patronizing to tell them what they already know and has clearly made no difference to their decision to smoke.

expatinscotland Fri 05-Oct-12 17:04:59

' whereas there's a thread in relationships where a woman is being totally supported in issuing the same ultimatum to her DH about his drinking! Double standards much? '

Because his drinking turns him into an aggressive, dangerous person. Never heard of anyone say, 'I smoked too much to drive tonight!' or 'I get extremely violent when I smoke.'

GoldenSeptember Fri 05-Oct-12 17:12:10

How exactly do you know that drinking turns him into an aggressive, dangerous person expat? (assuming that we're talking about the same thread) His drinking may have no influence on his levels of aggression.

When I was a smoker and trying not to smoke, I was utterly foul tempered and full of rage. Far more so than after I've had a drink, frankly.

DoubleMum Fri 05-Oct-12 17:14:25

Well, my DH smoked when I met him, and I hated it. We moved in together and he only ever smoked outside. He got through his stressful finals and then he gave up. He has occasionally slipped up, but if he started again it might very well end our relationship. He won't. But even the odd 'slip up' has consequences if you have something like life insurance and are down as a non-smoker.
So I guess that my view is, YABU to smoke, but he is BU to be issuing such black and white ultimatums.

halloweeneyqueeney Fri 05-Oct-12 17:14:58

Because his drinking turns him into an aggressive, dangerous person. Never heard of anyone say, 'I smoked too much to drive tonight!' or 'I get extremely violent when I smoke.'

I don't think its double standards. For partners of people addicted to anything (cigarettes, alcohol, gambling etc) one of the most heartbreaking things to watch is your partner prioritising their addiction over your life/future together, this can include spending money that you need for rent/bills on the addiction, or limiting the length of time you'll have alive together etc
There are common threads with any addiction

expatinscotland Fri 05-Oct-12 17:15:06

'How exactly do you know that drinking turns him into an aggressive, dangerous person expat? (assuming that we're talking about the same thread) His drinking may have no influence on his levels of aggression.'

Because I'm thinking of a thread in which this is the case. Among the hundreds I've seen over the past 8 years on here.

GoldenSeptember Fri 05-Oct-12 17:18:07

"Smokers know all that, and its patronizing to tell them what they already know and has clearly made no difference to their decision to smoke."

But their partner is perfectly within their rights to decide that those factors mean that they don't want to be in a relationship with the person any more. Same as the partner of a drinker is entitled to do the same. The smoker/drinker/whatever is equally entitled to choose their habit over their relationship. But labelling the DP in this case as controlling... I don't think that's very reasonable.

sookiesookie Fri 05-Oct-12 17:22:59

I can see both sides. I see you point, op, however if you continue to smoke you will die. Your dh will have to nurse you and then pick up the pieces with your dc. So I see his point.

Drinking (unless you are a alcoholic or aggressive when drunk etc) occasionally is not as high risk.

However your do should kick off at occasional lapses etc.
Both me and dh are ex smokers and tbh I would be pissed off if dh was risking his life doing something, especially when there is no real reason to.

sookiesookie Fri 05-Oct-12 17:25:48

Also your dp has the right to choose not to be with someone, because of behaviour he finds unacceptable.

Yanbu

atacareercrossroads Fri 05-Oct-12 17:44:54

Yanbu if he would leave you over the occasional bifta then he's got his priorities way off balance and you'd be better off without him imo. What a buttmunch!

YerMaw1989 Fri 05-Oct-12 19:08:08

Lots of good points here, now all I want is a fag grin I wouldn't though atm definitely.

the smell is utterly repulsive to non smokers

Not necessarily. I loved the smell as a kid and that's why I started really. Now I like other things about it, but especially the smell.

Bunbaker Fri 05-Oct-12 20:49:33

"the smell is utterly repulsive to non smokers

Not necessarily. I loved the smell as a kid and that's why I started really. Now I like other things about it, but especially the smell."

I think you are unusual. I loathe the smell of cigarette smoke. Apart from hating the smell I have to live with the fact that smoking killed my mother. Her lungs were absolutely shot - she used to spit into ashtrays and she gurgled every time she drew breath, and walking up a flight of stairs made her sound like she has just run a marathon.

Oh I loved the smell of a freshly lit cigarette when I was a child!

I have a friend who stopped smoking some 10 yrs ago, and still loves the smell!

bellabreeze Sat 06-Oct-12 03:52:25

Yanbu, it's pretty controlling in my opinion and obviously you're your own person, you can actually do anything that you want to do. You are an adult and you have the right to make your own choices

YerMaw1989 Sat 06-Oct-12 05:15:41

in his defence its not something he says a lot only a few times amongst the years but seemed a but perturbed when I pointed out I was a smoker when we first met, so its 'in me'.
He said sort of jokingly 'was hoping to change you' which I think is a mistake lots of people make.
Maybes its my hormones going 'arrgghhh' that makes me dream of having a fag.

dysfunctionalme Sat 06-Oct-12 05:46:11

I get what you're saying OP but I do think that if he hates smoking then he will continue to object to you smoking.

Equally if you love to smoke and want to continue to do so, then you can object to his take on it.

You need to ask yourselves whether it's a deal breaker. Do you want to be together more than you want to smoke? Does he want to be with you more than he dislikes smoking?

PoppyWearer Sat 06-Oct-12 07:03:46

When I started going out with my DH he smoked.

When we got serious, I told him that as I am asthmatic, he would need to quit before we moved in together. It was a deal breaker for me.

He loved me so he quit.

That was 12 years ago. He is pleased he quit when he did.

If he hadn't respected my wishes, I would have questioned how much he cared for me.

OldCatLady Sat 06-Oct-12 07:21:02

When I met my partner he smoked, which when dating wasn't much of an issue, but as things got serious and I'd stay over, we'd go out for dinner a lot I started to start to notice it a lot more. I'd be left while he went to have a fag and he'd stink of smoke for the rest of the night, which when on 1st/2nd date etc he didn't do. So I told him its me or the fags and he gave up there and then. He has the odd one when stressed or drunk with friends, but I'd say that's only about once a month and I'm ok with that.

GragPop Sat 06-Oct-12 07:48:05

When me and dp first started dating he said he would never quit, I respected his choice. If its a deal breaker surely you would bring it up near the start of the relationship, not a year or two down the line.

I think he is being unreasonable in the way he has given you an ultimatum.

geegee888 Sat 06-Oct-12 08:29:42

YABU. Everyone has a right to find something they cannot deal with in a relationship, and to end it. Doubly YABU because you gave up smoking at least partly to keep him interested in you. Now it is you who is wanting to change the goalposts back. And you seem to have no concept of what its like to date a smoker, when you yourself are a non-smoker.

Bunbaker Sat 06-Oct-12 10:27:21

"And you seem to have no concept of what its like to date a smoker, when you yourself are a non-smoker."

I agree. Would you date someone whose breath stinks of digested garlic or some other unpleasant smell all the time?

YerMaw1989 Sat 06-Oct-12 11:32:23

I quit because I fell pregnant, that's when I got the ultimatum and that was 3 years ago. But I feel I made too much of a black and white thing , like another poster said people lapse, and he knows I've had odd relapses and has never gone crazy etc just more of a 'When was this?'
I can understand him having a 'Where has this come from' thought, I've having more of a backbone recently in many ways.

I would never smoke in the home etc I wonder if that makes any difference? he knows this too.

GoldenSeptember Sat 06-Oct-12 17:05:22

"I would never smoke in the home etc I wonder if that makes any difference? he knows this too."

It doesn't make much difference - you'll still reek of it. I have a dear friend who gave up smoking then started again, but didn't tell his wife. When they come to stay we have a running joke about what excuse he's going to dream up to get out of the house so he can have a fag - it's amazing how he always manages to forget something so he 'has to go to the co-op'. When he comes back he stinks of fags and chewing gum. hmm grin Either his DW has no sense of smell (or suspicion) at all, or she is ignoring the elephant in the room. Even if you smoke outside, your clothes and hair stink of it.

Bunbaker Sat 06-Oct-12 18:07:39

"I would never smoke in the home etc I wonder if that makes any difference? he knows this too."

The thing is that smokers aren't aware of how much they stink of cigarettes. A non smoker can smell a smoker even if it is quite a while since they last had a cigarette. You are kidding yourself if you think your partner can't smell it.

YerMaw1989 Sat 06-Oct-12 22:17:35

I'm not saying he won't smell it but at least I wouldn't inflict him with a smoky home etc.

I dunno, I'll just have to see how it pans out.

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