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to not send my boy to nursery because of the little girl's abduction all over the news.

(231 Posts)
YesAnastasia Thu 04-Oct-12 10:42:00

It's not that I think it will happen to him but it's on my mind, on all the news and everyone's taking about it and it makes me want to have him sat on my lap 24/7. You can't help but imagine what if it were you, can you?

Nursery seems disorganised at best at the moment and I just want to keep him at home for the rest of the week. Is that bad?

Ragwort Thu 04-Oct-12 10:43:17

I think you need to separate the two issues - if the nursery does seem disorganised then obviously you won't have much confidence in it. What sort of nursery is it? Who runs it? Can you have a word with the manager/person in charge?

Grot Thu 04-Oct-12 10:43:50

Yes, I think you're being slightly unreasonable and need to get a bit of a grip.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Thu 04-Oct-12 10:44:52

Yabu.

In what way does the nursery seem disorganised? You might have a valid point, you might not.

ellargh Thu 04-Oct-12 10:45:30

It's not bad but YAB(a little)U if your son likes nursery. There's always a what if, whether you're with your son or not but wrapping him up in cotton wool is no good for anyone. Teach him not to talk to people he doesn't know unless you're with him etc.

The rest of the week won't hurt as it's not compulsary.

sugarice Thu 04-Oct-12 10:45:37

Yes get a grip! It's dreadful for her family but you need to get on with your own life.

Yes, the little girl may have been snatched by a member of her extended family in the evening.

If your nursery is disorganised then you have a problem, but it's not related to the girl being abducted in Wales - she wasn't abducted from childcare. Go in to nursery and talk to them about your issues with them - are you saying that their security is lax and another parent or adult could remove your child?

Your child is most at risk from people within your family, not from some stranger outside, so YWBU to keep him at home with you.

newmum001 Thu 04-Oct-12 10:47:48

Yanbu to be concearned if the nursery is badly run but yabu to keep him at home because of whats on the news. Whats happened to that little girl is incredibly sad but the circumstances of her abduction are very different. If she'd been snached from a nursery then fair enough but she wasn't.

crosscupcake Thu 04-Oct-12 10:48:03

Sort out the nursery issues and disorganisation that you percieve.

But seriously, i wouldnt go that far to keep my child off nursery.

MadgeHarvey Thu 04-Oct-12 10:48:57

YABU. The small risk of something awful happening to a child will not diminish however long you keep your child home for. And you can't do that till he's 21 can you. I'm in the get a grip camp here.

boredandrestless Thu 04-Oct-12 10:51:10

You can't keep him off nursery, do try to get him back there tomorrow. You have changed his routine and he will not get to play with his friends.

It is scary but you need to put it into perspective.

In what ways is the nursery disorganised? Maybe you could speak to the manager if there's things you have noticed and they might be able to put your mind at ease a little.

Sirzy Thu 04-Oct-12 10:53:27

As this event had no relation to a nursey at all you are being very unreasonable. Even if it had been linked to a nursery it would have still been unreasonable really.

If you have issues with the nursery that is seperate to worrying because of what has happened to April.

needanswers Thu 04-Oct-12 10:53:30

Yabu - but I understand.

I sobbed my eyes out when ds went to school - from fear of him being harmed by an older child (have reasons for my fears), but I realise - he has to be allowed to live a normal life - regardless of my insecurities - because if I didnt let him - that's when the bastards have really won.

Whoknowswhocares Thu 04-Oct-12 10:56:46

The nursery is no less organised than it was last week! Yabu and completely overprotective

If you are unhappy with the nursery then by all means deal with that as an issue. But to make it anything to do with that poor little girl is ludicrous

dysfunctionalme Thu 04-Oct-12 10:56:58

I think you are being a bit silly.

Staying at home sobbing helps no one.

Do your best for your child by letting them lead a normal life with sensible safety precautions.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 10:58:50

I don't understand the way people take on these things as if they were happening to them
I am sorry if that upsets anyone (genuinely) but I find it distasteful.

The horror of this poor child going missing belongs to her family and friends.
The rest of us must get on with our lives.

If you are unhappy with the nursery that is a different issue.

CrikeyOHare Thu 04-Oct-12 10:59:37

Do you think that what's happening in the news as brought to the surface concerns you already had about the nursery?

If so, this needs to be addressed. You should be comfortable leaving your DS there - and if you're not, then perhaps you need to ask yourself whether it's the right place for him.

But, if it's ONLY about the sad, worrying events in Wales, then you are being a bit unreasonable. It's understandable - but things like this are mercifully very rare indeed, and you won't do your DS any favours by wrapping him up in cotton wool in the absence of any real danger.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 11:00:00

YABU.

In what way is your son's nursery disorganised?

Why is your son's disorganised nursery mean someone is more likely to try and abduct him?

It is scary. It is every parents nightmare. But it's no more likely to happen to my daughter than it was before April was abducted.

If we followed your thinking to the nth degree, I'd never leave the house in case I got raped, my teenage son would never leave the house in case he got mugged, my husband would never go to work in case the train he travels on got derailed/bombed, we'd never buy a loaf of bread in case it had a mouse baked into it...

When terrible things happen it always causes us to re-evaluate our own practices/decisions because it remind us of what can happen. But it's really important to keep it into perspective.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 11:01:20

Absolutely, MrsDeVere

dysfunctionalme Thu 04-Oct-12 11:02:56

I so agree mrsdevere

It's like emotional vomit and it is totally unhelpful.

JustFabulous Thu 04-Oct-12 11:02:59

YANBU.

DH was off yesterday and let my 7 and 9 year olds play out the front on their own. I made him go outside and watch them and then one came in I said either the other had too or my 11 year old had to go out too so there was at least 2 of them out there. I know whoever has taken April is not going to take any of the FABChildren but I feel I need to protect them more atm.

Sort of a little bit, but I understand where you are coming from. Whenever I hear about something awful happening to a child, I just want to spend the day cuddling my daughter. But life has to carry on, and though I would love to be spending today and tomorrow cuddling my daughter, the truth is that she has to go to nursery, I have to go to work hundreds of miles away and we are apart.

But yes, I can understand you wanting to hold your son close at times when we are reminded of the vulnerability of life.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 11:04:59

Tbf though, Fabulous, the OP isn't asking about keeping an extra eye on them when playing out, she's asking about sending her son to nursery.

Which is completely different.

Whoknowswhocares Thu 04-Oct-12 11:05:15

The truth is that as a parent you have to let your child live a normal life. It is your duty to let them do this

Will they be 100% safe all the time for ever more? No. But the risk is so tiny with sensible precautions and the alternative of oversmothering them and stunting their development is harmful too

RabidCarrot Thu 04-Oct-12 11:10:56

A child in a nursery is not a 5 year old allowed to play out on a bike at dusk without adult supervision.
Your son will be fine.

catwomanlikesmeatballs Thu 04-Oct-12 11:16:16

The nursery isn't going to be any safer next week so if it's not safe enough for him today you need to find a new one.

Keeping your child home because something horrible happened to another child when there is no more risk of it happening to your own is a major overreaction. If you do this every time something bad happens, your child will grow up locked in his bedroom until something happens to another child in their bedroom and then what will you do? Surgically attach him to you? That's no life.

It's cruel to teach a child that the world is a terrifying place to be afraid of and they should hide away in their home to be safe. It debilitates them. Get a grip.

YABVU.

To me its the same as someone has a horrific car accident miles away so you don't use the car.

While I completely understand how horrific the April case is and I feel devastated for her parents I can't understand this mass hysteria. She is 1 child out of the hundreds of thousands in the UK, that doesn't mean that all children are suddenly at risk.

Are you local to her? Maybe thats what influencing you? I haven't noticed anyone really talking about it much, obviously its been in the media but I'm not feeling as if its everywhere yet.

CaptainVonTrapp Thu 04-Oct-12 11:17:29

OP YANBU to feel extra protective.

MrsDevere I know I'm not alone in feeling utterly appalled and actually upset by what has happened to April this isn't a choice to take on these things as if they were happening to them. I am 'getting on with my life' of course. In fact I would like to feel more like you sound - quite pragmatic.

Of course its nothing to what her family is going through, I wouldn't even try to imagine.

However to describe someones response to the abduction of a 5 year old girl as emotional vomit dysfunctionalme I really do find distasteful. You sound very cold.

YouOldSlag Thu 04-Oct-12 11:17:46

YABU. As tragic as it is for her family, this is not your tragedy and life must go on. Whenever a parent hears of an awful news story like this, they will want to hug their child a little more appreciatively, of course, but life goes and interrupting his routine because of a news story is an over reaction.

When you read of a car crash do you decide never to get in a car again? Perspective!

lljkk Thu 04-Oct-12 11:18:06

I imagine Your child is more likely to get struck by lightening at some point in their life, than to attract the attentions of a would-be child snatcher.

OhSoSimple Thu 04-Oct-12 11:18:30

YABU to not send your child to nursery because of the little girl going missing. That's very dramatic on your part and frankly, ridiculous. I would be more concerned by the tragedy of the little girl who became entangled in the play equipment and died.

However, if you are unhappy with the nursery itself than you are right to not send him and look for an alternative.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Thu 04-Oct-12 11:21:40

I think people are being way harsh to the OP. Can anyone honestly say they didn't feel the twist of anxiety in their gut when they heard this news, the desire to have their children right by their side at that very instant? I know I did.
You need to separate out your anxiety response to this story - which I share - from your concerns about the nursery. you can't deal with the former, but you can and should address the latter.

dysfunctionalme Thu 04-Oct-12 11:22:48

CaptainVonTrapp not cold at all. But sensible. Getting yourself into a tizz over someone else's tragedy is a bit lot sick. It is not in the least bit helpful. Infact it is just being troublesome and faintly ridiculous. There are so many better ways to expend your energy than making yourself ill with worry over something that is absolutely nothing to do with you.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Thu 04-Oct-12 11:25:26

I'm sorry I think that's an awful thing to say, dysfunctional. If the OP's anxious reaction is over the top and unbalanced surely she deserves sympathy, not to be stigmatised as a sicko. Wwould you say that to a friend who was suffering from excessive anxiety? I sincerely hope not.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Thu 04-Oct-12 11:26:30

And by the way, if people telling themselves there are better things to do than worry actually worked, there'd be no-one suffering from anxiety disorders. What an ignorant remark.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 11:27:06

Captain I don't want to speak for MrsDeVere or DysfunctionalMe because I know that they are both quite capable of speaking for themselves, but I took their posts to refer to the public outpourings of grief that has become increasingly popular in recent years.

Ever since then members of the public have responded disproportionately to any tragedy reported in the news.

Of course we are all horrified and saddened by this, and other similar, incidences, but it is distasteful for people to take it on as though it belongs to them.

It doesn't.

FreudianLisp Thu 04-Oct-12 11:27:29

YABU.

The reason it's all over the news - other than because it's such an awful situation for the family - is because it's thankfully very very rare for this sort of thing to happen. Any child is far more likely to be killed in a car accident than abducted - are you going to ban your child from travelling in cars?

There are millions and millions of children in this country who will go to nursery/school/playground/etc today and who will come home safe and well.

CaptainVonTrapp Thu 04-Oct-12 11:28:30

Who is ill with worry? You are the only one to mention vomit and label someone 'sick'.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 11:29:30

The OP hasn't made any reference to having an anxiety disorder.

I don't think it can be assumed that she does.

I don't think anyone is mocking the OP, just trying to put things into perspective for her. And she has posted on AIBU which isn't really known for it's softly softly catchy monkey approach, is it now?

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 11:29:36

captain you ate entitiled to your opinion and I to mine.
My opinion is that it is self indulgent and I dislike it intensly.
It is worse now than it has ever been. People are no longer content with feeling for a family in a terrible situation.
They have to tell the world how awful they feel and how it is affecting them.

It isn't affecting them. Their children are safe and they no nothing of the pain and horror the family are feeling. They cannot and should not imagine what it's like.

I despise it. I have been on the receiving end of it and I can tell you it doesn't help one tiny bit.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 11:30:33

My opinion is that it is self indulgent and I dislike it intensly.
It is worse now than it has ever been. People are no longer content with feeling for a family in a terrible situation.
They have to tell the world how awful they feel and how it is affecting them.

YES!!!

TigerFeet Thu 04-Oct-12 11:30:41

The reason that April's disappearance has been all over the news is that such things happen so very rarely.

Is there any particular reason you feel that he's not safe at nursery? If so, you need to address that.

I must admit I've been feeling a bit unsure about letting my 8yo play out, she's been allowed out on our cul-de-sac on her own for a couple of years as long as I can see her from the front door (I don't watch her, just stick my head out every now and again) and this summer she was allowed to walk round the corner to the park as long as she had her friend with her. I have questioned whether I've been too lax but I don't think I have. I'm not going to stop her life because of a million to one chance.

So, YANBU to feel empathy for the family but YABU to react by clinging to your own child.

DuelingFanjo Thu 04-Oct-12 11:31:20

YABU and a bit weird.

PostBellumBugsy Thu 04-Oct-12 11:32:06

YABU - keeping your DS home from nursery because of a 5 year old being abducted in the semi-darkness when out of sight of her home is crazy.

It is every parents' nightmare to have their child abducted & I am keeping every finger & toe crossed that little April is found safe & well.

I will be checking my own decisions about when & for how long my DCs are allowed to play outside & I will certainly be reminding them that they never get in a car with anyone - because those are sensible parenting decisions to take in light of something like this.

If your nursery is disorganised, then have a chat to them about that. If you have any reservations at all about their policies around who can pick up your son, then you should raise that with them very strongly.

Tee2072 Thu 04-Oct-12 11:34:06

YABVVVVVVVVVVVVVVU

If you're not happy with the nursery, change nurseries.

OhSoSimple Thu 04-Oct-12 11:34:40

I agree entirely with orangeandgoldmrsdevere and folkgirl . My friend went through an awful tragedy and she found these types of "sympathy" hard to stomach. What she wanted was support not people transferring her tragedy ino their drama.

I think it is quite attention seeking and disrespectful.

Of course if the OP is suffering from anxiety that is now having an effect on her being able to rationalise things like this then she must urgently seek medical help.

EverybodysCryEyed Thu 04-Oct-12 11:34:49

Folk girl

Seconded!

Ephiny Thu 04-Oct-12 11:35:35

YABU and a bit silly.

If there are issues with the nursery then that's another matter, but it has nothing to do with what happened to this little girl.

I agree with MrsDeVere actually. Maybe I am 'cold' (though I'd rather that than be hysterical and sentimental) but I find some people's reactions to this a bit distasteful and self-indulgent.

Someone had written on a friend's facebook yesterday that she wouldn't be letting her children play outside after school in case. We live a 100 miles from Machynlleth in a large city. I mean WTAF did she think could happen to her child in connection with this incident.

wigglesrock Thu 04-Oct-12 11:42:13

I agree if you're not happy with the nursery, thats a completely different issue.

I know that while I was up with my 19 month old in the middle of the night, I watched the news, kissed her and said a quick "please keep my children safe" to whatever God was still up at 3am. But there was a heartbreaking car accident involving a baby nearish wherer I live last week, I still put my 3 children in the car just after it happened and drove.

Terrible, horrible, ugly, fucking unfair things happen to people every day.

TigerFeet Thu 04-Oct-12 11:42:37

I agree wholeheartedly with everyone who finds this sort of over the top reaction a bit distateful.

I'm not cold, far from it, I cry and laugh and cuddle my girls close all the time.

I just don't think that an appropriate response to someone else's tragedy is to assume that it's going to happen to you as well.

DuelingFanjo Thu 04-Oct-12 11:43:40

"They have to tell the world how awful they feel and how it is affecting them.

It isn't affecting them. Their children are safe and they no nothing of the pain and horror the family are feeling. They cannot and should not imagine what it's like"

I so so agreee. .

Last night, on here, I read someone saying that they keep thinking, hourly, about the poor girl being locked up somewhere!! Why? Why did they feel the need to type that out let alone think like that every hour of the day. It's just awful. So many people I know who have connections to Machynlleth have felt the need to post about it on Facebook, as if this is somehow happening to them because they went there one on holiday or know the village. Urrgghh.

I so agree with MrsDV, Folkgirl and others.

Every time there is a tragedy it seems that people can't wait to share how its affecting them. I don't understand why anyone would want to turn a families pain into their own drama.

WorraLiberty Thu 04-Oct-12 11:57:52

Fanjo I was just thinking this morning that the more 'attention hungry' posters I see on Facebook seem to be using this awful abduction to gain attention for themselves.

It's a fucking disgrace seeing all the competitive comments about how one person is more affected by it than another.

Yet not one of them knows April or her family hmm

porcamiseria Thu 04-Oct-12 11:59:04

what grot said, maybe a bit gentler he he

porcamiseria Thu 04-Oct-12 11:59:38

worra you need to DELETE those twatty facebook friends, please!

WorraLiberty Thu 04-Oct-12 12:03:28

porc not one of them are on my friend list.

In true attention seeky style, they have their accounts set to public.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Thu 04-Oct-12 12:04:14

The OP is not participating in any attention seeking competitive empathy fest, which I have no doubt is going on elsewhere. (And frankly, if you don't like those, then one really has to wonder what you're doing here, because this site is fucking full of them.) She is suffering anxiety about her own child as a result of hearing about these events. If her anxiety is excessive, as i think we all agree it is, then she deserves some sympathy, not being labelled a "sicko" or "weird".

AnOldieButNotSoGoody Thu 04-Oct-12 12:05:28

Hmm.

Yabu but I'm sure you know that. If you're happy with his nursery just keeping him off for one week isn't going to help much is it?

Maybe you need to look at a different nursery.

I've been reading a thread on mn regarding the disappearance of April and have had to zip it.

I do not understand how and why people take the story to their heart.

Yes I'm a mother and yes I've lost a child, my child and I certainly feel for her parents and hope she's found alive but I don't think she will be.

But certain people on that thread take it personally if anybody dare suggest anything controversial, so much wringing of hands and pearl clutching.

Quite alarming actually.

BigFatLegsInWoolyTIghts Thu 04-Oct-12 12:09:54

I had this OP....I felt afraid. I made myself send both DDs to school. It's a natural reaction an you need to just remember that we're all extra vigilant now.

Pandemoniaa Thu 04-Oct-12 12:11:05

*My opinion is that it is self indulgent and I dislike it intensly.
It is worse now than it has ever been. People are no longer content with feeling for a family in a terrible situation.
They have to tell the world how awful they feel and how it is affecting them.*

Absolutely yes.

Compassion should never be confused with the sort of over-indulgent and, quite frankly, crass tragedy transference that seems to manifest itself every time a genuinely awful thing happens to others.

SlightlySuperiorPeasant Thu 04-Oct-12 12:11:50

What MrsDeVere said. Giving your child an extra hug and feeling a bit more grateful to have them safe and sound: normal. Feeling very sorry for the missing girl's family and praying that she will be found today: normal. Turning it into something that's all about you: weird and attention-seeking behaviour.

If you're unhappy with your child's nursery then take steps to sort it out or withdraw them and send them somewhere else.

Why do we all need to be extra vigilant now? Our DC's are no more at risk of stranger abduction today than they were yesterday or last week or next year. FFS. Children are most likely to be harmed by someone they know. Oh and unles you live in Machynlleth and the perpetrator has yet to be caught what exactly are you going to be vigillant for?

AnastasiaSteele Thu 04-Oct-12 12:14:02

You would be unreasonable yes. Are you an anxious person generally? It seems so if it's affecting you to this degree.

BigFatLegsInWoolyTIghts Thu 04-Oct-12 12:15:05

hobnobs WHERE did I say we NEEDED to be extra vigilant?? I said "We're all extra vigilant"

Which most parents ARE because this kind of thing is firghtening.

No, I am generally vigilant with my children. Current circumstances do not require extra vigilance.

"We're all extra vigilant" Why? and no we aren't all, I am not.

merlincat Thu 04-Oct-12 12:17:44

See a doctor OP, you need help. All this emotional incontinence over someone elses life is just crass and inappropriate. If you want public recognition for your levels of sensitivity and concern for children then do some voluntary work and put it to actual use.

PostBellumBugsy Thu 04-Oct-12 12:17:46

hobnob, I agree we don't have to be extra vigilent - but it has made me think about how late the DCs can play outside, how far away from the house they can play & I will definitely be re-iterating the "don't get into anyone's car" message.
I don't think measured reflection is a bad thing - just shouldn't become panicy scare-mongering. Sadly, the press has alot to answer for, as they are always looking to sensationalize these kind of stories and that scares the life out of alot of people and they then panic & think that their child is no longer safe at nursery - IFYSWIM.

Stranger abduction is rare beyond belief.

Chubfuddler Thu 04-Oct-12 12:22:09

Why does everyone suffer from an "anxiety disorder" these days? Some people are just OTT. It's not a disorder (unless of course some contributors to this thread have met the op in person and are psychiatrists qualified to make such an assessment).

And what mrsdv said.

dolcegusto123 Thu 04-Oct-12 12:22:31

I do understand but I think that yabu.

Saying that I do however sometimes have
irrational thoughts that my dc will manage to 'escape' from school and will go missing

MadameCupcake Thu 04-Oct-12 12:24:48

If you are remotely worried about his safety at nursery then you should serously think about moving him - I don't really think this has any relevance with a child being abducted when playing outside alone. I would not have had ANY issues leaving DCs at nursery or school in any circumstances.

What I wouldn't do is let my 5 year old out without adult supervision.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 12:27:48

The OP is asking should she keep her child off nursery because she is thinking about this child.
So I would pretty much lump that in with the whole sob feat thing.and as for this site being full of 'them', you are unlikely to see me on a dedicated thread unless it is to express a brief message of support or to offer practical advice.
Any over emotional utterances from me will be regarding just one more person wailing 'my OH is really worried about ME, it's like losing one of my OWN, I can't stop torturing MYSELF'

Yes yes because you care so much more than the rest of us. You care so much that you have to spend every waking minute thinking about how this is making YOU feel ffs.

But as you put it captain I am probably just one of those cold types

MadameCupcake Thu 04-Oct-12 12:28:06

I do think it is normal for people to feel sad for the families going through these awful things, I can't understand how you wouldn't really especially if you have children yourself - I find some of the comments on here a bit odd.

For "cold" MrsD read "sensible".

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Thu 04-Oct-12 12:28:42

No-one is saying the Op has a disorder. I cited anxiety disorders as evidence of the blatant absurdity of telling someone plainly expereincing excessive anxiety to "stop worrying". this advice is not helpful, or likely to be effective. It is, however, spectacularly irritating.

As irritating as people who think that other people's tragedies belong to them in some way.

MadameCupcake Thu 04-Oct-12 12:29:48

MrsDeVere - that is the extreme and quite ridiculous of course if people are actually saying stuff like that but hoping for the safe return and feeling sad for them would be fairly usual I imagine.

I feel sad for the family, I'm sure we all do. Thats different to becoming emotionally involved and letting it affect your life.

Grot Thu 04-Oct-12 12:32:10

MrsDV speaks perfect sense and has said what I pretty much think, but far better articulated.

To keep your child off school/nursery because of this is ridiculous.

I said it earlier but this is ridiculous mass hysteria. However reading this thread what I now feel most aggrieved about is that there is this inference that if you are not getting emotional about it all you are heaven forbid, the ultimate sin a woman can commit, not maternal.

Even worse you're cold.

Bollocks. Not cold just realistic.

Mrsjay Thu 04-Oct-12 12:35:10

This is somebody elses child who is missing not yours you can't keep your son home because you are sad and upset, I am sorry if i sound harsh I am not uncaring you can be upset and sad for somebody and carry on with your own life,

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Thu 04-Oct-12 12:37:39

Who the hell is saying anything about not being maternal???
I think the cold remark was made to the person who called the OP sick. i don;t think that's cold, actually. I think it's downright nasty.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 12:37:56

I'm no more vigilant than I was before either.

I feel sad for the family, I'm sure we all do. Thats different to becoming emotionally involved and letting it affect your life. Exactly.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 12:39:08

Of course it is sad. Actually it is beyond sad. None of us can imagine how awful it is.
I feel for this family and wish their little girl home safe.

I do not think about it 24/7
I am not glued to sky news watching them rehash and speculate.

Because this is not a spectator sport it is a private tragedy.
I do not want to be involved in it.
I do not want to think about it.

I just want her to be ok.

Mrsjay Thu 04-Oct-12 12:40:24

I suspect a friend of my sisters has kept her child from nursery today and they were all going to have a snuggle day because her little girl was sick during the night , I think this affects people in different ways it is horrible but we can't stop what we do because of it .

Mrsjay Thu 04-Oct-12 12:40:57

Because this is not a spectator sport it is a private tragedy.
I do not want to be involved in it.
I do not want to think about it.

I just want her to be ok.

^ ^ this

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 12:41:32

MrsDeVere That is absolutely it. You have articulated that perfectly.

Particularly the line about it not being a spectator sport.

TheCountessOlenska Thu 04-Oct-12 12:42:01

Agree with Folkgirl Mrs DV etc.

Weirdly OTT response imo. Well the OP did ask!

Chubfuddler Thu 04-Oct-12 12:43:09

It doesn't affect us in any way though, not if the individuals are not connected to us.

BegoniaBampot Thu 04-Oct-12 12:44:10

Maybe this is a trigger for the OP for something else that's going on in her life. Are you usually like this OP, do you usually react to other people's sad stories like this? I hate all the grief and public outpouring etc that happened for Diana and similar, the competitive grieving and so on and I too avoid all the support threads or sad story threads. Then I got caught up in tragic events of a friend's friends. Never met the family but I became unexplainable obsessed and depressed by what this family was going through. Was scared shitless and angry at myself for being so pathetic. It really took over my life for a few months and I considered going to the doctor as I was so worried I was sinking into depression.I would normally scoff at this kind of thing and think you weak bint and then I was that weak bint. I think it might have been a trigger to grieving for a close family member who had died not long before in similar circumstances.

Mrsjay Thu 04-Oct-12 12:44:26

It doesn't affect us in any way though, not if the individuals are not connected to us.

well it certainly had a negative effect on the OP

Chubfuddler Thu 04-Oct-12 12:47:16

No, the op has hitched her wagon onto someone else's tragedy. It's a bit weird frankly.

seeker Thu 04-Oct-12 12:57:16

Somebody on another thread said something like "this can't go on- I just want it to be over, one way or the other".

It was all I could do to stop myself laying into her. How dare anyone even begin to think they have a stake in this particular private tragedy? Ghouls, the lot of them. Being titillated by the experience emotion at one remove.

OP- how you feel is perfectly normal- but you really must, for your own sake and the sake of your child, fight against it. Your child is as safe as he ever was.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 13:00:34

That's shocking seeker.

Anyone who knows the family will also want it to be over. But certainly not "one way or the other".

What a spectacularly stupid and insensitive thing to say!

AnOldieButNotSoGoody Thu 04-Oct-12 13:01:38

seeker I've seen that shite too.

Makes me cringe actually.

Mrsjay Thu 04-Oct-12 13:02:37

No, the op has hitched her wagon onto someone else's tragedy. It's a bit weird frankly.

well I was trying to be tactful but yes i agree with you I don't think it is weird to be saddened by this some people just take it too personally and need to clutch their children closer to them but we need to carry on as normal ,

sugarice Thu 04-Oct-12 13:02:53

That other thread is mawkish.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 13:03:10

All people expressing that sentiment really mean is that the effect of the initial news is wearing off and they need a new 'fix'.

MadameCupcake Thu 04-Oct-12 13:04:42

There is a lot of sense being spoken on here - especially MrsDevere and responses to her.

There has been a lot of FB status' relating to this and I find it all a bit odd - nothing over the top but just saying how they are hoping she is found etc.

I do not need to change anything about how I deal with my DCs, they are 4 and 6 and are not allowed out without an adult. An older child does not count as a responsible person as they are often not responsible in all situations.

I know that the abductors are the evil party in this but I don't think this should make us change how we treat our children - I don't believe we should be putting pur children in vulnerable situations as it is so something like this shouldn't change anything. Time and time again these things are happening in small communities NOT big cities and these families are paying huge prices. It is incredibly sad but will continue to happen!

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 13:05:04

Jesus seeker shock

That sort of thing is why I stay off those threads.

I remember a lot,of that when the very high profile missing child case was all over the news.
Lots,of people saying things like 'it's worse for the family than her being dead!'
Hoe the fuck would they know? How dare they say things like that.

DontmindifIdo Thu 04-Oct-12 13:05:23

OP - if your DS's nursery is so disorganised on security that anyone can get in and take DCs away without having to pass through several gates/secuity checks, you need a new nursery. I'd be genuinely surprised if any nursery can get thorugh ofsted without security measures in place - at DS's I have to know the code for the main gate, or be buzzed in, then be buzzed into the main building, I'm always asked if there's anyone behind me and they have to state their name too. DS can only be handed over to me or DH, if for any reason we need to have someone else pick him up, they need our code word.

That's normal levels of security for a nursery. If yours is lax on secuirty, I'd move your DC straight away.

CaptainVonTrapp Thu 04-Oct-12 13:08:52

I agree with much of what you see MrsDV as I said much earlier your response sounds pragmatic. This is meant in a good way.

'cold' was my description of whatisme who labelled the OP 'sick'. The OP cannot help what she is feeling none of us (I don't think) can turn off emotions like fear, anxiety, sadness. Even though sometimes these feelings may seem like irrational reactions. Of course deliberately posting a self-indulgent facebook status I would agree leaves a bad taste - but this is totally different.

Ephiny Thu 04-Oct-12 13:10:28

That's awful seeker shock

Here's an idea, the 'spectators' who 'just want it to be over' can always switch off their televisions, put down their newspaper, get off the internet - then, for them, it's gone. Unlike the actual family who don't have that option!

DuelingFanjo Thu 04-Oct-12 13:12:00

yes, Mawkish is the word I wanted to use. and voyeuristic.

Do I feel for this family - sure do. Do I hope she is found - yes I do. Siince I had a baby of my own I definitely feel more empathy than I might have done in the past.

But it's not changed my life or the way I look after my son. I also think it's very cruel to make comments about how you wouldn't personally let your child play out at that age. It's like people are saying the parents are to blame. In the threads about this abduction there is blame being thrown about willy-nilly, trying to solve a crime that not even the police are able to. It's awful.

I presume people are referring to the thread in Chat. I just had a look. It's vile.

DontmindifIdo Thu 04-Oct-12 13:15:27

BTW - I agree with MrsDV - if you are just making someone else's horror about you, you are rather self indulgent. It's not about you or your family, so stop trying to make it your drama rather than someone else's.

But - if what you are doing is more, this terrible story has made you think about your own security/ways you can stop if happening, that's a different issue and makes more sense. The horrible case of the family dying on holiday from CO2 posioning was enough to shock me into getting our boiler serviced, recently a family near us lost everything in a house fire and it made me think about our level of insurance (and stopped us leaving the tumble dryer going overnight as that's what started their fire).

It's perfectly reasonable to have something like this shock you into realising you aren't being secure enough if you were taking risks before - the shock that actually, sometimes it does go wrong if you take risks, is reasonable - it will depend on the security arrangements at your DS's nursery as to if you are being reasonable (actually, that's not a safe environment even if it's easy/cheap so change care providers) or unreasonable (that it's fine, however manic it looks, noone could logically get in and take your DS without staff noticing and you're just being a drama queen)

porcamiseria Thu 04-Oct-12 13:16:09

every few years something HORRIBLE occurs, James Bulger, Madelaine, Sarah Payne

yes, let us not forget that every week in the UK a child dies of child abuse, the stats are horrendous

I suppose this upsets us more, but I cant quite discern why

CaptainVonTrapp Thu 04-Oct-12 13:18:27

I think porc because we perceive that we can stop abuse happening to our children but not perhaps a random abduction.

Bumblequeen Thu 04-Oct-12 13:18:30

I can understand your anxiety. My heart truly goes out to her family. How on earth are they functioning knowing their dd is out there somewhere? It is awful.

I look at dd asleep and thank God for her life. She is so precious to me just as is every child to their parent (well most).

My dd is confident and friendly. She has no qualms in speaking to people she hardly knows. We are teaching her to have boundaries. I do not allow dd to sit on any mens' laps apart from close family.

In the early 80's I used to play outside from the age of 7 with a group of friends. My mum had no need to see or check on us. I doubt I will allow dd to play out. She can visit friends whose parents I know and we will take her to the park/day trips.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Thu 04-Oct-12 13:19:04

The OP is not trying to "own" someone else's tragedy. She has been frightened out of her wits by it. Anyway you lot of self-righteous so-and-so's seem to have scared her off; well done you.
OP, if you are still reading, and if this sort of OTT anxiety is something you suffer from frequently, there are techniques you can learn to deal with it, if you get the right help which is probably not, on current evidence, to be found here.

wigglesrock Thu 04-Oct-12 13:19:24

The thread in Chat is worse than vile - the discussing of the childs parentage, second guessing the police, wondering about the suspects wife, its, its like a bad episode of CSI.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 13:22:06

Well pragmatic I can deal with captain smile

I am not sure this is completely different though. We don't know because I doubt the op will be back, but maybe the purpose of the thread was to have a platform for this sort of over indulgent tosh?

If could only have taken a couple of 'I know how you feel Hun, I have been sobbing for days' type replies for it to have taken off.

Perhaps my opinions are coloured by being a member of another forum for years and being on there when the BAby Peter case was big news. It was appalling. Utterly sick making.

Women were vying to show how mentally ill the case of this child was making them. How they couldn't get out of bed, how they felt as if their own child had been murdered.. It went on for days.

I got stupidly caught up in it, such was my disbelief. I was flamed to hell and back for being an uncaring bitch. By people who days before were complaining that their children had to go to nursery with scruffy, smelly children. Children like the boy they were now claiming as their own.

I know full well my opinions are strongly influenced by the fact I have lost a child after a long and deeply traumatic illness.

So I am intolerant of these fancies. I am generally a very tolerant and (I hope) caring sort.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 13:22:36

I do not allow dd to sit on any mens' laps apart from close family.

Why?

Clearly no one on the hread in chat learnt anything from the Jo yeates threads on here a couple of years ago. Oand karlos do get over yourself.

Folk I am really struggling with a lot of the "logic" on here today.

seeker Thu 04-Oct-12 13:24:07

"My dd is confident and friendly. She has no qualms in speaking to people she hardly knows. We are teaching her to have boundaries. I do not allow dd to sit on any mens' laps apart from close family.

In the early 80's I used to play outside from the age of 7 with a group of friends. My mum had no need to see or check on us. I doubt I will allow dd to play out. She can visit friends whose parents I know and we will take her to the park/day trips."

So long as the boundaries do not include instilling undue suspicion- the sitting on laps thing is undue suspicion. And you have no more need to check non children playing out than your mother did- the risks- or lack of them- is exactly the same as it was then.

porcamiseria Thu 04-Oct-12 13:24:20

captain

you are right, this story has really upset me so I am thinking of stuff that equally bad, if not worse to make myself feel less upset confused

well said seeker

sugarice Thu 04-Oct-12 13:24:43

Rolling 24 hour news means that we 'live' every moment I suppose, we see the neighbours, relatives, news conferences. There's no stone left unturned with the media wanting to fill airtime.

Some people get sucked in by the constant news and terrible trauma but it's soon forgotten. Who thinks about Tia Sharpe now? sad

Child Abuse we only hear about when it's too late and the inquests are heard about 'lessons will be learned'

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Thu 04-Oct-12 13:24:53

if getting over myself means developing some of the attitudes I see here, I'll respectfully decline, if it's all the same to you.
And while we're giving out orders, you learn some manners.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 13:24:59

You don't know anything of the sort KK

You have no idea why the OP posted. You are guessing.

My manners are fine thanks.

MadameCupcake Thu 04-Oct-12 13:26:12

DuelingFanjo I was not being cruel - what I was saying is that I do not think it is appropriate to be changing how we deal with our children and that surely we should all be aware of these things anyway.

It is of course the abductors fault not the parents but we all are allowed our own opinions of what we think is and isn't appropriate for our infant school age children - that is not pointing blame. I do not let my young children out alone and will continue in that way, my friends who live in quieter streets let their children out and will continue in that way. Not blaming people just a statement!

maillotjaune Thu 04-Oct-12 13:26:35

MrsDeVere has said it perfectly.

I would understand if you were thinking twice about letting your child play outside (and btw I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with doing that at all) but if you are seriously worried about nursery security then you should have been worrying about that before anyway.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Thu 04-Oct-12 13:26:55

No, I'm basing what I say on what she actually wrote, rather than leaping on the condemnatory bandwagon.

PostBellumBugsy Thu 04-Oct-12 13:27:43

For heaven's sake, most abuse & most abductions happens within families or circles of friends.

All this stuff about not letting your kids play out or not letting them sit on anyones lap, apart from family - doesn't make sense.

It is one of the last taboos and the NSPCC has a devil of a job knowing how best to deal with it and politicians don't want to touch it with a barge pole - but you are more at risk from almost any crime from your own family, than a stranger!!!!!

Well said post

DuelingFanjo Thu 04-Oct-12 13:30:21

there was a VERY good blog linked to last night about how it is much better to teach your children to ask permission from their parents before going anywhere with anyone than to tell them not to go with strangers. It made some very good points about why 'stranger danger' is a very bad thing to teach children.
I'll see if I can find it.

Pagwatch Thu 04-Oct-12 13:30:52

I am perfectly capable of being moved to tears by the sadness and tragedy afflicting others. I think most of us can. I remember Dunblane and the tragedy of James Bulger as being particularly hard to process.

But what I don't I understand is posting something entirely from the position of how it affects you. It's like the appearance of empathy with actually no empathy at all.

My dd lost a friend when she was at nursery. Poor boy was diagnosed with a brain tumour and didn't survive more than a few weeks. In the middle of his treatment, actually the day of his main operation a mother from nursery rang the mother on her mobile to weep. The mother ended up having to comfort a relative stranger on the day that her son had an operation that seemed likely to signal the end of his life.

I don't get it at all.

BegoniaBampot Thu 04-Oct-12 13:31:34

Had a look at the thread in chat, it's a bloody car crash. Think they think this is an episode of Midsummer Murders.

sugarice Thu 04-Oct-12 13:31:46

Duelling, it was called dealing with Tricky people iirc, very good advice.

Chubfuddler Thu 04-Oct-12 13:32:45

Indeed. Compassion and empathy are one thing. That thread in chat is downright ghoulish. I'm not sure who are worse - the amateur sleuths or the misery vampires. They're all having a lovely time by the looks of it anyway.

sugarice Thu 04-Oct-12 13:32:56

Begonia it's awful , one Poster in particular is living on that thread, barely pausing for breath.

DuelingFanjo Thu 04-Oct-12 13:34:09
Pagwatch Thu 04-Oct-12 13:35:45

Having posted I have re read the thread and MrsDeve said all of that better.

Hopeforever Thu 04-Oct-12 13:36:22

I read the post by porcamiseria Thu 04-Oct-12 13:16:09
every few years something HORRIBLE occurs, James Bulger, Madelaine, Sarah Payne

yes, let us not forget that every week in the UK a child dies of child abuse, the stats are horrendous

And thought she must be making it up. Sadly she is not and pocamiseria I'm sorry for doubting you

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/massive-fall-in-child-abuse-deaths-linked-to-new-protection-policies-2278997.html

needanswers Thu 04-Oct-12 13:37:20

duelling I'd be really interested in that link - that's exacty what I was trying to explain to my 4 year old yesterday - they must never go anywhere with anyone, even Aunty X, without telling the grown up who is looking after them first.

FWIW stranger danger doesn't worry me - plus it does appear she didn't go with a stranger.

It's a very difficult world when you have to be more worried about your nearest and dearest.

Hopeforever Thu 04-Oct-12 13:40:45

Great link thank you duelling

PostBellumBugsy Thu 04-Oct-12 13:41:08
OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 13:41:56

pag I have had to do that dozens of times.
You walk away bemused 'what the hell just happened?'

It's hard enough having to tell each new person what has happened but for them to break down on you, to sob and wail and tell you how terrible it has made them feel...it's just horrible.

I have had reactions ranging from 'aww you have made me feel all sad now' to people literally collapsing.

The collapsing people are not relatives or even close friends. And I have never forgiven them.

Imagine having a child in such a high profile case. Half the population blaming you and the rest trying to take ownership of your child.

That poor family

Viviennemary Thu 04-Oct-12 13:42:18

At first I thought YABU. As the two have no connection. But on the other hand if you are worried about laxness at the nursery and level of care then YANBU to be concerned if you think your child is not being properly looked after.

PostBellumBugsy Thu 04-Oct-12 13:42:25

oops sorry - I'm a bit slow, duellingfanjo's already done it (and better too!) grin

MadameCupcake Thu 04-Oct-12 13:43:38

I agree that we cannot wrap our children up in cotton wool - I will still deal with my children in the way I see fit (we live in a busy street so in fact traffic is my main worry not abduction) but I would welcome proper information being taught to children both at school and home about not going off with ANYONE, I am still not sure a child as young as 5 would remember that if they knew someone well., especially a family member or close friend

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Thu 04-Oct-12 13:43:58

"My dd lost a friend when she was at nursery. Poor boy was diagnosed with a brain tumour and didn't survive more than a few weeks. In the middle of his treatment, actually the day of his main operation a mother from nursery rang the mother on her mobile to weep. The mother ended up having to comfort a relative stranger on the day that her son had an operation that seemed likely to signal the end of his life."
You aren't seriously likening the OP's posts to this sort of behaviour, are you?
I think the OP has been vilified as a result of rightful disgust at the ghouls operating elsewhere. Which is an example of the mob mentality at least as unattractive as the threads being criticised, frankly.

InvisibleHotPinkWeasel Thu 04-Oct-12 13:47:23

Empathy is only a wonderful thing if you use it.

Feeling empathy can't be helped, but outpouring, handwringing and sharing do fuck all.

I'm off to donate my quarterly pint of blood this afternoon. I do it because that good lady up thread Mrs DV told me too wink I don't MrsDV, I can't comprehend what her life must be like. Nor to I have the right to try. But because of empathy I can damn well spit in a bottle and pop it in the post and go to the blood bank 4 times a year.

Tragic things happen to people every day, and your life poodles along fine.

Take your son to Nursey tomorrow. Then drop something off at a local food bank, donate money to the nspcc or something.

You can't help that little girl, but you can help someone.

Pagwatch Thu 04-Oct-12 13:47:41

Err, no.

I posted as the thread evolved commenting upon people who personalise other peoples tragedy.

If I had been comparing the op with the woman in my story I would have said so.

I think you might want to throw your accusations of mob mentality at people who are saying things to the op to commenting on her behaviour.

InvisibleHotPinkWeasel Thu 04-Oct-12 13:48:09

I don't know mrs dv, sorry

PostBellumBugsy Thu 04-Oct-12 13:49:57

KarlosKK, I agree that some of the suggestions that the OP has an anxiety disorder or should take herself off to her GP are unnecessary - but there is bucket loads of common sense being talked on here, as well as reasoned discussion about how to view risk in a measured fashion & not have the wits scared out of you by sensationalist jouralism. Your comments about mob mentality are unfair, IMO.

Pagwatch Thu 04-Oct-12 13:51:43

MrsDevere
It is awful. I am sorry you have experienced it.

The sad thing is that I think it is becoming a kind of model for how grief should be expressed. It is not questioned really and being as affected as possible by an event on the news is becoming a sign of caring.
It's odd.

Ephiny Thu 04-Oct-12 13:54:29

Oh wow that thread in Chat is seriously odd. Some people really need a job/hobby, or is being professionally horrified a full-time job these days?

maillotjaune Thu 04-Oct-12 13:54:36

Pagwatch your comment about this kind of reaction becoming normal reminds me of what happened at work when Princess Diana died. Two colleagues practically set up shrines to her, went to lay flowers in whatever park it was, went to the funeral (well, stood in the crowds) and thought the rest of us were heartless bitches.

The thing is, I think it's actually only a minority of people but they are the ones you see and hear. Most of us shuffle off embarrassed rather than call them on it.

YesAnastasia Thu 04-Oct-12 13:56:17

How very angry some people are, just because I had urge to have my son stay at home with me today. And I'm over reacting?

I have absolutely no desire to OWN this tragedy, be connected to it or show how I feel about it in any way. I don't even know that much about it. Just that it's happened & it's horrifying.

I read a book called 'A crime in the neighbourhood' a few months ago, subsequently I was very insecure when I wasn't with them. That was fiction. I didn't have a sick need to make it all about myself...I should have referred to that instead.

I had to check the nursery playground for loose cords/rope on his first day too. If you think any of that's sick, self indulgent, attention seeking or whatever hideous labels that have been attached to me in the last few hours, I'd rather not know. That kind of behaviour appals me just as much as some of you, but that isn't this.

A few of you understood where I was coming from - that hearing dreadful things (even having a nightmare the night before or being pre-menstrual) sometimes makes me feel a little bit clingy, over-protective and a bit anxious. Not because I feel it might happen to me, just an insecure feeling.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim had my back. A voice of impartial reason. Thank you.

PostBellumBugsy Thu 04-Oct-12 13:57:25

I think this faux caring stuff is yet another symptom of our "its all about me" culture. Its all over the place and shows like X-factor are the worst for it. Tulissa crying because it is so hard to tell people that they won't get through to the live shows. FGS!!!!! It is so phoney but we are surrounded by that kind of crap all the time & it rubs off. Doesn't mean anything & won't change anything, but hey we're all supposed to feel better disposed to Tulissa because she had a blub about other people's misfortune.

YesAnastasia Thu 04-Oct-12 13:58:39

Oh, by the way. He went to nursery. He wanted to.

I posted because I know I need to get a grip some days.

Hopeforever Thu 04-Oct-12 13:58:46

maillotjaune, I agree that the reaction to Diana's death seemed very the top but afterwards it was discovered the rate of admission to psychiatric care was greatly reduced and the number of suicides decreased as well

Out poring if grief is not something we do well as a country, we bottle it up. People used Diana's death to grieve their own loved ones even if they didn't now that is what they were doing

Pagwatch Thu 04-Oct-12 14:00:32

Op
I think you to lots of posts understanding the impulse to be more protective but encouraging you to be rational.
If you have concerns about the nursery then that is completely rational and you should act upon. But distant effects don't change the reality of risk, just your perception of it.

The discussion has included comments about the other threads in chat. I wouldn't assume that they are aimed at you.
Discussions move on and expand around the subject.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 14:01:17

I'm not angry. confused

I have an opinion. But I'm not angry.

If you weren't engaging in that behaviour, it probably wasn't wise to start yet another thread on the subject.

Your question was to ask if you were being unreasonable in not sending your child to nursery because of what happened to someone else, somewhere else. And the general feeling was that it was an unreasonable response. Natural to focus your attention and re-evaluate. But unreasonable to let it stop you doing something as normal as letting your child go to nursery.

Chubfuddler Thu 04-Oct-12 14:03:25

If a fictional book can make you that anxious about your children then I'd say you do need help with anxiety, because it really isn't normal to react on such a personal way to external events.

BegoniaBampot Thu 04-Oct-12 14:03:53

I tried to have the conversation with my kids last night about strangers and for the first time also about going off with people they know because I know most children obviously come to harm at the hands of someone that they know. Just hate that I've had to have these talks, it's so hard to explain to them without scaring them and being OTT.

Pagwatch Thu 04-Oct-12 14:03:59

Yy Hopeforever.
The Diana effect was a good thing in some ways as it was acceptable to show grief and be open about loss. The withdrawal from the notion of 'stiff upper lip' was a good thing.

I think it has just evolved a bit now and sometimes people are forgetting that to grieve you must personally have suffered loss and grieving for a stranger is in danger of diminishing the loss of those people actually involved

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 14:04:35

People used Diana's death to grieve their own loved ones even if they didn't now that is what they were doing That's interesting. I hadn't thought about it like that.

I was embarrassed, frankly, about the way the 'public' responded to Diana's death. Her children were composed and were filmed comforting strange adults over in their reaction (wailing in the street) to their mother's death.

I hadn't really considered that they might have been doing what you suggested.

YesAnastasia Thu 04-Oct-12 14:07:24

FolkGirl Yep. I was. So I took him to nursery.

Some of the contributors here are angry. Disproportionately so.

InvisibleHotPinkWeasel Thu 04-Oct-12 14:07:53

It's grossly unfair to assume others don't get it. They do. It is an almost biological reaction, that when another mother suffers, you feel a basic need to mother your own.

It's when people over react that's the problem. It's something you just do quietly without your dcs realising at all.

maillotjaune Thu 04-Oct-12 14:11:24

HopeForever that is interesting, had no idea, it just seemed odd to me but thinking about the people I knew who reacted to Diana in this way, what you said makes sense (generally very reserved etc). I learn something useful every day on mn!

PostBellumBugsy Thu 04-Oct-12 14:12:25

Hmmmm, I really do wonder about people using Diana's death to grieve for their own losses.

I think the most telling thing about Diana's death is the response you get from so many people:
"Oh, it was awful I had to lay flowers outside Kensington Palace"
"I was beside myself with upset, couldn't stop crying all weekend"
"So sad, I just couldn't stop thinking about those poor boys"

This happens so often about so many events these days. People are more concerned about their reaction, than what is actually happening - because it has to be all about me & my feelings!

Lueji Thu 04-Oct-12 14:13:45

Coming late, but I do think that keeping a child out of nursery because a child is missing is an hysterical response.

Children go missing all the time.
Around the world lots of children suffer, disappear, die of hunger, are murdered and tortured.

While I feel very sorry for all cases, including this, it really doesn't take over my life and doesn't prevent me or my son from going about our normal lives.

even if I am actually under the more real threat of him being at some point abducted by his father

fedupofnamechanging Thu 04-Oct-12 14:17:45

I think the OP has been treated a little unfairly. She has concerns about her child's nursery and this little girl's abduction has made her focus on the possibility of such a thing happening to her own child. I don't think she is unusual in that. If she didn't have underlying concerns about the nursery, she probably wouldn't be thinking this way (keeping her child home).

I wouldn't put her in the same league as the people who are on that other thread.

Because losing a child is everyone's worst nightmare, it's quite hard not to imagine yourself in the other parents position. However vigilant you are, as a parent, something bad could still happen to your child and that is a very scary thought and the news just reminds us of that fact.

I do agree that people should stay off fb and those ghoulish threads.

Ephiny Thu 04-Oct-12 14:20:07

People should go to see tear-jerkers or horror films if they want titillation or an outlet for their emotions. That's what they're for, right?

Hijacking someone's actual real life troubles to feed your own emotional needs is a bit...weird and distasteful.

PostBellumBugsy Thu 04-Oct-12 14:20:33

karma - which is exactly why you need to come on here & be reminded of the fact that the liklihood of something bad happening to your child is extremely small - particularly if you are already being sensible about how you look after them.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 14:20:57

Perhaps the OP should have made herself a little clearer then, Karma.

Because what she actually asked was should she keep her child away from nursery because of what is currently in the news.

The answer to that is "no".

If she has concerns about the nursery then they would exist whether a child had been abducted or not.

fedupofnamechanging Thu 04-Oct-12 14:22:03

The Diana thing is interesting, because it was the start of this sort of behaviour.

I think in her case, it was shock, because it was so unexpected. I also think that part of it was a way to show disapproval towards the royal family. There was a perception that her treatment had been unfair and the public outpouring was redressing the balance, in a way.

It has started off though, this over sentimentalised behaviour by people who never knew the victims of the tragedies they are publicly crying over.

Lueji Thu 04-Oct-12 14:22:34

Karma, that's the point. No place is 100% secure.
A determined criminal will get there if he/she really wants to. No matter how secure a nursery is.

Even if a child is at home it could be at risk.

fedupofnamechanging Thu 04-Oct-12 14:24:35

It is a very small chance, I agree. But the fact is, these things do happen to some people and when they do, it is an uncomfortable reminder that you cannot legislate for everything.

Agree that you still need to get on with your own business and just do the best you can, for your own dc.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 14:25:07

Lueji - you only have to look at the child protection register to see that there are a very many children at risk in their own homes.

One of the first things I was told on my very first child protection/safeguarding training is that it is dangerous and misleading to teach children stranger danger because sometimes a stranger can be the safest person.

pigletmania Thu 04-Oct-12 14:25:31

Yabvu two different scenarios

BegoniaBampot Thu 04-Oct-12 14:26:39

Funny, I'm not a royalist but the Diana thing and the way the RF were bullied by the public into showing their grief to the people probably made me support them form the first time ever.

AnOldieButNotSoGoody Thu 04-Oct-12 14:31:43

Thank Christ I'm not on Facebook anymore, I can just imagine the anguish from some people regarding the missing little girl.

YesAnastasia Thu 04-Oct-12 14:31:46

Ephiny I'm not hijacking anything. I felt insecure & clingy (for whatever reason...) and I needed a tough mumsnetter to tell me to get a grip. They did. Some went way over the top attributing thoughts and feelings to me that are completely and utterly wrong.

And Diana has nothing to do with it. It's like going into a random thread and saying 'from what you've said I can see that you're one of those hideous people who pulls the wings off live flies, yes you do & it's disgusting, isn't it everyone?'

THERhubarb Thu 04-Oct-12 14:33:21

FolkGirl - it is still advisable to teach Stranger Danger and it is certainly NOT dangerous to do so.

What I think you mean is that it is dangerous to only teach Stranger Danger and not talk to kids about keeping themselves safe in ANY situation.

I have told my kids about their 'sixth sense'. That it doesn't matter who they are with, if they feel uncomfortable being around someone, for whatever reason, they must tell me. Even if that means that we get a phone call at 2am asking to be picked up from their grandma's then that is what we would do.
And no-one is ever to touch them in the places that is covered by a bikini or swimming trunks. Those are their private areas and if anyone touches them, even if it is someone they know, they must tell me.

There are still a lot of sickos out there, including strangers, who will stare at children's playgrounds, who will flash young girls, who will offer children lifts, who will follow children. Not teaching them stranger danger would be quite irresponsible imo.

Oh and as for OP, I agree with MrsDeVere's first post. This tragic event does not impact on you personally so don't try and jump in on someone else's grief and pain. It will not do you or your son any good whatsoever.

THERhubarb Thu 04-Oct-12 14:34:33

I see the OP has already taken that advice on board. Good for you.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 14:34:47

I don't think anyone's attributing your feelings to the Diana thing.

Although when you've started a thread and then it takes off a bit it becomes a bit difficult to detach yourself from it and every comment becomes about you personally (been there!). Because you were gone for a while, the conversation/debate continued and moved away from your initial question quite quickly because you weren't here to respond. smile

I'm glad you decided to take him to nursery.

What are the things you're concerned about there? Are they things that you can address with them?

YesAnastasia Thu 04-Oct-12 14:35:24

"No place is 100% secure.
A determined criminal will get there if he/she really wants to. No matter how secure a nursery is."

Lueji Yeah, thanks for that.

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 14:35:33

Yes Rhubarb, what you said. I didn't make that clear.

Lueji Thu 04-Oct-12 14:41:25

I hope you were not being sarcastic.

The fact is that we can't protect our children from everything.

And, unfortunately, bad things happen to us and to them.

The good thing is that it's very rare for really bad things to happen.

THERhubarb Thu 04-Oct-12 14:43:36

Ha Lueji that's what my dh says when he leaves all the gardening tools in the garden and forgets to lock the back door. I have to remind him that there is no need to actually make it easy for the criminal and that a burglar is far more likely to attack a less secure house with all the right break-in tools at his disposal in the garden, than the locked and secure house up the road.

Same probably goes for nurseries. An unattended child on the street is obviously an easier target than one who is in a locked building with numerous other children and staff members.

YesAnastasia Thu 04-Oct-12 14:45:14

It's disorganised because they are in the process of changing nursery teacher. It's been something different everyday, his behaviour (but I found later they hadn't listened to him) he managed to escape the nursery building into the main school & I wasn't told, they hadn't put on his wellies & he was completely soaking through his shoes & socks, one day he had a half hour tantrum & I wasn't contacted. Loads of things that make me worry. I'm hoping it will even out once the teacher settles in.

There are no other school nursery places in my area so if I stop him going, he misses nursery altogether.

Whitecherry Thu 04-Oct-12 14:46:32

Oh dear!

TroublesomeEx Thu 04-Oct-12 14:48:21

I'd keep an eye on that then.

The wellies and behaviour thing are just unfortunate/oversights/happen occasionally.

The getting into the main school is a bit of a safeguarding issue. When you found out about it, did you speak to the nursery staff about it? I'd have wanted to know how it had happened and what they had put in place to stop it from happening again.

Although I appreciate that if it was a while ago it would make it difficult to bring it up again now.

If it was quite recently, you could say that you've been thinking about it (don't mention the news though) and still ask the questions.

YesAnastasia Thu 04-Oct-12 14:51:45

Ha, yes I won't be mentioning the news again to anyone any time soon.

I can address it all with the new teacher as none of this happened 'on her watch' so I can just express my concerns.

Lueji Thu 04-Oct-12 15:04:57

Yes, Rhubarb, but we can only make the criminal's life more difficult. There are only so many precautions we can take.
That's my point.

Anastasia, your concerns about nursery are valid, but they should be independent of what happened to this girl.

SusanneLinder Thu 04-Oct-12 15:12:24

Oh I so agree with Mrs Devere.Not talking about the OP here, but I just don't get the mass hysteria and stuff that is going on around this case. It is all very sad and worrying, and I do listen with interest to see if there are updates, but facebook is imploding so much that I have logged myself out.

We have the Find April Jones fb page that everyone seems to have subscribed to that is coming up on MY newsfeed, full of "share her picture on your status-don't get why myself, everyone in the country knows what she fecking looks like hmm. Then people driving from MILES around to go and "search" for her, when the police have specifically said that they have people to do it.Local people I get, they know the area etc, but people have driven from London,Scotland etc etc.It's just ghoulish IMO.

And then we have the "perfect" bloody parents-who are repeatedly and smugly, blaming the parents, cos THEIR child would be tucked up in bed at that time, and even one person went as far as to say, that if the parents had looked after her properly, she wouldnt have been taken angry.

I really hope that she is found safe and well, but some people really need to get some perspective.

THERhubarb Thu 04-Oct-12 15:46:42

I think social media in this case is a good thing. It's the fastest way to get the message across to a wide section of people and imo the police have done well to embrace it.

I have not liked the facebook page nor looked at any tweets, but I have posted a description of the Land Rover Discovery that the suspect was driving along with the police appeal for information on tracing his movements and have asked friends to re-post it on their own Facebook walls and tweet it. I may not know anyone in that part of Wales, but if enough people pass the message on then it may reach someone who can help.

Luckily you can always opt out of mass hysteria of this kind. You can unlike Facebook pages, you don't have to look at tweets and you can hide Mumsnet threads.

The only news source I trust is the BBC and I don't get these people who post Sky updates as fact. On the only April thread I've contributed to someone posted that the police had found something because Sky said so. That turned out to be false. In the end I stopped contributing because it did actually feel wrong once everything had turned into a game of whodunnit with posters analysing the mother's appeal.

That's human nature though isn't it? And perhaps a way of dealing with the shocking and horrific, by turning it into some kind of game that isn't real. Same with blaming the parents, because somehow people find it easier to digest news of parental neglect and abuse than abduction by strangers. Considering the possibility of evil strangers willing to abduct children would make reality far too scary for them. That's why there are still people who suspect Madeleine McCann's parents of killing her. Because that thought, no matter how horrific, is easier for them to comprehend rather than the terror of someone actually breaking into an apartment to steal a child.

I'm sure psychologists have a field day with all this reaction.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 15:47:27

Funny how thse shy and nervy posters....
Suddenly aren't .

As it happens I do severe from an anxiety disorder. A diagnosed one.
So I know about that stuff.

Yes I am angry too. It's perfectly proportional smile

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Thu 04-Oct-12 15:55:45

What's your point? Suffering from an anxiety disorder entitles you to give someone else suffering from irrational panic a good handbagging? Care to explain the logic there?

JugglingWithPossibilities Thu 04-Oct-12 16:06:11

I think keeping him off nursery all week shows a slight lack of proportion - a day would be more understandable. I just wonder what messages he will pick up from it ? If he's settled and benefiting from the experience then he should usually go IMHO (and as someone who works in early years) If you're not going this week I hope you have lots of other fun and interesting things lined up to do instead ! Hope you both have a good week smile

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 16:07:47

Well I would if that was my point.
But it isn't
Whsts yours?

TandB Thu 04-Oct-12 16:21:35

I'm afraid I'm with MrsdeV and others on this one.

People do seem to get much more invested in news stories these days - probably because there is so much info and comment available on the Internet, so people feel much closer to it.

But I think we do need to remember that it is happening to someone else, not to us, and that it is much more sensitive to simply say 'I'm thinking of those poor people' rather than almost trying to share in their emotions by saying 'I'm devestated' or 'I'm terrified for my children'. I've seen people say they have spent all day crying over stories of missing children or accidents or illness, and I do generally think 'Really? All day? Did you really?" I get a lump in my throat sometimes, or a bit wet-eyed but I can't imagine crying all day over anything that wasn't much closer to home, to be honest.

JugglingWithPossibilities Thu 04-Oct-12 16:36:59

I'm completely with you there kungfupanda ... Yes, especially since having the DC's a lot of things will bring a brief tear to the eye. DS is always laughing at me smile - when I cry at Tracey Beaker or Horrible Histories or something ...

... But we also have our own lives ... and as parents we have the job of raising our children. Crying all day about something in the news or keeping your child off nursery for a week all seem a bit OTT to me smile

JugglingWithPossibilities Thu 04-Oct-12 16:40:00

Having said that I am very sorry and concerned to hear of this abduction, especially as we have friends who used to live in M ( I won't attempt spelling !) and so have been there several times. I know it's an exceptionally lovely and close-knit community - hopefully all that support will be there to help and comfort this family x

SusanneLinder Thu 04-Oct-12 16:47:37

Luckily you can always opt out of mass hysteria of this kind. You can unlike Facebook pages, you don't have to look at tweets and you can hide Mumsnet threads.

I have done of all of these, but my fb friends are commenting on it, which is why I have logged out smile. I am sticking to watching the news. I cannae bear all the armchair Miss Marple's and Hercule Poirots who apparently know more than the police.

I have no problem with the helpful parts eg twitter and facebook were the first to announce the news, which means people were on the lookout quicker. It was the ones that just come on to slag the parents, people saying they can't sleep thinking about it, how devastated they are etc etc.

I do agree with you Rhubarb, about how it is easier to blame the parents than deal with the shock that someone could abduct a child.Kind of gives value and reassures people that it could NEVER happen to them, because "they" would never let their child out to play at dark o'clock/till they are 30.

Yup the psychologists would have a field day. grin

JugglingWithPossibilities Thu 04-Oct-12 16:53:12

Yes, that happened a lot with Madeleine McCann too didn't it ? Everyone saying they'd never leave their DC's asleep in a hotel room to have a drink/ meal whatever with friends outside. I'm just sure there are plenty who have/ would ... though obviously less so now (easy to be wise after the event)

cansu Thu 04-Oct-12 17:13:56

Yabu the terrible situation has no bearing on whether your ds will be safe in a building supervised by play workers. There are no similarities whatsoever. If you want to cuddle your ds do so but I don't see why you wouldnt send him to nursery. If there is a problem with the nursery deal with that but don't try and mix it up with a totally separate issue.

SusanneLinder Thu 04-Oct-12 17:15:30

Sad though this case is-it IS an isolated incident, and contrary to what the media would have us believe, there aren't child abductors/paedos etc round every corner. But every time something like this happens, parents become even more fearful of stuff happening to their kids. And has others have said,something is more likely to happen in their own home (statistically). Nor has it changed since the 50's/60's, we just talk about it more.

But we keep them in, lock them up, let them play upstairs on games consoles and hover round every activity, instead of teaching our kids how to stay safe and be streetsmart. This is why some kids are not getting the exercise they need/becoming obese/socially awkward, cos people are too scared to let them out on their own.

I grew up in the 70's and I remember there was a flasher in the woods. We always played in groups.We ran home and told our mums and the police were called.

In fact I remember my mum telling me that there was a flasher hanging about when she was a child (this would have been during the war), and her granny ran downstairs with a kitchen knife, ready to cut it off the dirty bugger grin

scampadoodle Thu 04-Oct-12 17:18:01

Oh I'm so relieved to read the posts of MrsDV et al as that's exactly how I feel and I was worrying that I was just a grumpy old cow. Someone mentioned people travelling miles to help search: I heard a bloke interviewed who'd come 100s of miles to do this, only to be told that it was police only. And he sounded really put out! Like he'd been deprived of his moment. I half expected him to say he was going to report it to the PCC.
Re Diana: we were invited to a wedding the day of her funeral. People were 'shocked' that a) we went to it, & b) that the couple hadn't cancelled the wedding!

CrikeyOHare Thu 04-Oct-12 17:37:21

I caught a bit of Sky News earlier and that awful Kay Burley was asking someone or other how the police could go about conducting their search at the same time as making all the volunteer searchers "feel included".

FFS. Why should the police, who have rather better things to do, give a flying fuck about making anyone feel "included"? It's almost as if some people are just determined to "show they care" even when they've been asked not to come.

No disrespect at all to everyone local who was out on the first night - but people who come from far and wide are a hindrance not a help.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 18:04:57

It was obvious from the police forces's later statements that the hangers on were causing a nuisance.
They were tactful but it was clear these people who just wanted to be a part of history were getting in the way.

AnOldieButNotSoGoody Thu 04-Oct-12 18:10:30

I had sky news on earlier and behind the reporter was a young blonde woman on her phone smiling and chatting and looking over to the camera.

Sickening really.

YesAnastasia Thu 04-Oct-12 18:14:12

I'm not shy or nervy. I never said I was. I worry and am anxious where my loved ones are concerned. I am not diagnosed.

YesAnastasia Thu 04-Oct-12 18:16:55

Gosh, are you all watching it 24/7? If there were no audience, no one would play up to it.

scampadoodle Thu 04-Oct-12 18:21:25

Um, no, I'm not watching it at all. The man I referred to was on the R4 Today prog, which I have on when getting ready in the morning.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 18:23:10

Sky news keeps rolling whether I deign to view or not.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Thu 04-Oct-12 18:34:12

It's on the news now. I am not going to turn it off.
Well I might if they carry on in this style.

The pink ribbons are nice. Something the family have asked for.

I didn't mean to include the community and those with local knowledge in my earlier post btw.
It's the tourists I am talking about.

jamdonut Thu 04-Oct-12 19:59:15

If you are like this when he's just going to nursery,I feel sorry for the school that he will eventually go to. Will you be one of the parents who will make their child stay in school while the rest of his class/year go on a school outing, because you will not be able to police everything? Sounds like you don't trust anyone .
No matter how safe you think something is,there is always the chance of something freakish occuring. It is life. Horrendous if it happens to you, but it is not something you can necessarily have control over.
Children are growing up with no common sense, because adults are thinking of and attempting to eliminate all the "dangers", so that there is no need to think about those dangers themselves.

Agnesinroom25 Thu 04-Oct-12 20:34:59

Kay Burley is an arse she was talking about April in past tense today sad.
I think I know what you mean op sometimes I get a little anxious and want us all to stay home and have a duvet day.

brandysoakedbitch Thu 04-Oct-12 20:36:28

get a grip

perfectstorm Thu 04-Oct-12 22:42:27

This kind of thing is, thankfully, incredibly, incredibly rare.

On average, 11 children (under 16) a year are abducted and killed by someone other than a family member. There are 12 million children. Your child therefore has less than a 1 in a million chance of being taken and harmed in this way - you're almost as likely to win the national lottery main jackpot, in fact.

I know it's terrifying, but given 126 under-fives died last year from being scalded by the hot tap in their own homes, I think a sense of proportion is essential.

YesAnastasia Thu 04-Oct-12 22:44:01

Now that jamdonut I might agree with. I am (and probably will be) 'one of those' parents. I think I am a bit of a control freak with my children.

Don't need to control or 'police' any other area of my life though.

You feel sorry for a school?

perfectstorm Thu 04-Oct-12 22:45:20

I hasten to add that I very much hope it goes without saying that I am also praying April Jones is found safe and well. But the OP is fairly plainly scared that her child won't. That's the fear I am addressing.

And you can IMO harm a child a lot by not allowing them to take slow, incremental steps towards independence, which at this early age means time away from you. I saw some very vulnerable, reckless, dangerously innocent kids at university, whose parents had smothered them all their lives before releasing them, completely unprepared, into independent existences.

SusanneLinder Fri 05-Oct-12 10:07:14

And you can IMO harm a child a lot by not allowing them to take slow, incremental steps towards independence, which at this early age means time away from you. I saw some very vulnerable, reckless, dangerously innocent kids at university, whose parents had smothered them all their lives before releasing them, completely unprepared, into independent existences.

Woohooo. Another sensible person. Yep, I am fed up of reading about all those helicopter parents that don't allow their kids out at 10/11. I mean REALLY.No wonder we have a bunch of socially inept kids.

One graduate recruitment company was interviewing for graduate postions in London, and he had 3 refusals to attend the interview, cos the interviewees had no idea how to get there......

I rest my case.

halcyondays Fri 05-Oct-12 10:20:48

Whatever does the abduction of that poor little girl have to do with disorganisation at your son's nursery? confused April wasn't at a nursery. If you're not happy with his nursery, then speak to them about it.

DialMforMummy Fri 05-Oct-12 10:27:08

YABVU for all the reasons above.

RubixCube Fri 05-Oct-12 11:06:20

YABU.Yes its upsetting but nothing will happen to your son in nursery as they are very strict and don't let randoms take children out.This is why they have passwords.

sosos Fri 05-Oct-12 13:02:21

Firstly those who are saying "get a grip" why dont you take your own advice. theres no need to be horrible is there? Try be adult?
I have worked in nurseries for 8 years, all different ones and i can tell you i will NEVER send my child to one! Thats a different matter. op i understand where you are coming from, times like this you want your loved ones close by. i dont think this is the op's way to turn the attention on herself and views like that are the views that are actually quite disturbing. i know some SICKOS do try and turn it on themselves but i think this was general concern. I really pray this little girl gets found and none of us ever ever have to experience anything like what her parents are going through :-(

DialMforMummy Fri 05-Oct-12 13:25:53

Firstly those who are saying "get a grip" why dont you take your own advice. I do. DS is at nursery, hopefully not where you work.

sosos Fri 05-Oct-12 13:33:03

Luckily the nursery i am at is safe for the children but the workers (apart from me) only bother with ther children when the parents can see. otherwise they are mainly just sitting there chatting about eastenders etc. ive only worked at one nursery out of 6 that was great with the children x

JugglingWithPossibilities Sun 07-Oct-12 08:44:39

Well, you must have worked in some pretty bad nurseries sosos
I'm sorry that's been your experience.
I've worked in lots of great nurseries, where everyone does their best for the children. That's not easy when you're working 8-4 or 10-6, and some weeks when I was asked to do 8-6pm years ago. That's a long day with children - as we all know !
Sometimes staff have been stretched in terms of ratios, especially in early morning, end of the day, and lunch-time (due to obvious staffing challenges, with shifts and lunch-hours) but honestly I've always been impressed by the dedication of the staff (They/we all deserve a pay rise and better recognition of their skills BTW)

cory Sun 07-Oct-12 10:31:12

"times like this" implies that something new has happened that has changed the world

the truth is that children die every day of the year- and have done throughout history

just as many children were abducted and/or murdered 80 years ago (my MIL was nearly one of them), the month that doesn't see a child abduction in this country probably sees one in France or Spain or Scandinavia, these things happen at about the same rate all the time

the only thing that differs is the press coverage- and press coverage doesn't make any difference to the safety of our children

we can never keep our children 100% safe - but by dealing with our fears bravely and cheerfully we can refrain from making their lives one perpetual worry about all the bad things that might happen

sosos Mon 08-Oct-12 11:35:48

@jugglingwithpossibilities.... yeah the nurseries have been really poor and the worst thing is they have all been large chain private nurseries where you think the stuff would be great. i have had to leave so many places cause i couldnt cope with being the only one that actually worked and yes the pay we get is a shocker. you want your children to be safe when you are made to believe they are being well looked after. x

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