AIBU to not get how Infacol get away with it?

(126 Posts)
ICBINEG Mon 01-Oct-12 15:50:56

I mean compare this

with this

confused

RaisinDEtre Mon 01-Oct-12 15:54:30

Infacol was rubbish for my kid but dentinox was brill*

go figure

*nb I know anecdote does not = data

monkeysbignuts Mon 01-Oct-12 15:55:19

so it doesn't work! I thought it was just me, I tried everything from infacol to those lactase drops and it didn't work. My baby just got through it on his own around 10 weeks old.

McPhee Mon 01-Oct-12 15:56:49

Oh shut up

My Dd has suffered with reflux

It's been a lifeline.

Not in the mood for this crap.

noblegiraffe Mon 01-Oct-12 15:58:36

No better than placebo doesn't mean the same as 'doesn't work' necessarily as the placebo effect can actually be quite strong.

Viperidae Mon 01-Oct-12 15:59:12

Often children's medicines do more to reassure parents that they are doing something to help than to cure symptoms in the child.

Many medicines for both adults and children are more "kidology" than science.

ICBINEG Mon 01-Oct-12 15:59:26

hmmm well we only looked into it as HV kept going on about it...but the more you look...well...

ICBINEG Mon 01-Oct-12 16:00:14

yeah but it seems a shame when there are things that DO work beyond placebo that you should end up well...conned!

duletty Mon 01-Oct-12 16:00:45

i found it helpful with mine and would recommend it all on the basis that it did work

produced lovely orangey burps

ICBINEG Mon 01-Oct-12 16:01:28

McPhee replux =/= colic.....not a damn reason why it wouldn't help with reflux....so erm good luck and go to it....

ICBINEG Mon 01-Oct-12 16:01:38

reflux even...

Mintyy Mon 01-Oct-12 16:01:49

Go on then, ICBINEG, what does work for colic?

ICBINEG Mon 01-Oct-12 16:02:28

duletty ohhh well I would get onto the NHS clinical evidence team...clearly they have made a huge mistake and will change their page the moment they hear of your orangey burps....

ICBINEG Mon 01-Oct-12 16:04:03

range of things...

mostly things that reduce sensory overload.

Also for babies that are lactose intolerant, a bunch of things aimed either at replacing missing enzymes or removing lactose (although of course the vast majority of colicky babies aren't lactose intolerant...)

RaisinDEtre Mon 01-Oct-12 16:04:56

what does =/= mean? [scratches head]

monkeysbignuts Mon 01-Oct-12 16:04:56

I am not sure how a baby would benefit from placebo effect? surly they are too young?

RaisinDEtre Mon 01-Oct-12 16:05:50

sensory overload makes a baby have colic? confused

noblegiraffe Mon 01-Oct-12 16:05:54

Because things that work beyond placebo (such as?) might be more expensive, more harmful, less easy to get hold of?

If the placebo works, why knock it?

Viperidae Mon 01-Oct-12 16:07:13

Placebo might work on a baby if parent feels they have given baby something to make them better so relaxes and baby picks up on parent being less stressed.

ShobGiteTheKnid Mon 01-Oct-12 16:07:27

=/= does not equal

monkeysbignuts Mon 01-Oct-12 16:07:35

But for a placebo to work the person getting it would have to have an understanding that the drug could help a problem they are having?
A baby 2/3 weeks old has no understanding what medicine is?

DesperatelySeekingPomBears Mon 01-Oct-12 16:08:31

I was prescribed it by my GP, so clearly the NHS must think it has some value or they wouldn't waste money prescribing it. Tbd, DS didn't have colic, he just wouldn't burp, however the infacol did produce nice, satisfying belches the second I sat him upright.

RaisinDEtre Mon 01-Oct-12 16:08:34

Shob, thank you, it's obvious isn't it [smacks forehead]

BackforGood Mon 01-Oct-12 16:08:42

Well, it worked wonders when mine were little - tbh, I don't really care how, that screaming was hard to cope with.

Raspberryandorangesorbet Mon 01-Oct-12 16:09:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

susiegrapevine Mon 01-Oct-12 16:10:00

Hmm well its seems to be working for my lo so will carry on.

MrSunshine Mon 01-Oct-12 16:10:04

Placebo effect is for the parents, not the baby.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 01-Oct-12 16:11:11

placebos can work if the parent changes their behaviour or feelings as result of the treatment, and the child reacts to that

HandHolding Mon 01-Oct-12 16:11:54

Placebo though is a big bag to put all the different things that actually DO make a difference but we haven't a clue what they are.
It can be talking, the colour of the drug, the nice reassuring pharmacist, knowing you ARE doing something.

It's not because we don't actually now which one of these it is or because it's not a molecule of some sort that it doesn't make a difference.
The problem, on a research pov, is that you can't replicate it easily so it doesn't fit studies.

Personally, I would choose a good dose of positive placebo effect over any drug (Really less risk tbh)

RaisinDEtre Mon 01-Oct-12 16:11:57

And thank you too Raspberry

RaisinDEtre Mon 01-Oct-12 16:12:34

Jamie makes a good point

MrSunshine Mon 01-Oct-12 16:13:03

You know colic doesn't describe anything but the pattern of crying? Nobody knows the reason for it, there is no description of colic that diagnoses anything.

Infacol and the like relieve gas. Colic doesn't mean gas. So gas relieving = reduction in colic doesn't mean much.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 01-Oct-12 16:13:58

Good point Mr Sunshine. That was my understanding of colic

susiegrapevine Mon 01-Oct-12 16:14:02

Plus no one really knows what colic is so if it helps them burp all the better!

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 01-Oct-12 16:14:28

Xpostarama

weegiemum Mon 01-Oct-12 16:14:40

Placebo can work on animals too.

HandHolding Mon 01-Oct-12 16:14:59

In this case, it could the loving parent, very reassuring, not stressed that is helping. And they can do that because they are DOING something so feel more in control, relaxed etc...

TBH, a friend of mine used lots of different therapies when she had cancer, some of which, she has been told, were just 'placebo'. She has a really good answer to that.
'It worked for me and it made a difference. How and why I don't care.'

susiegrapevine Mon 01-Oct-12 16:15:12

Sorry xpost

ouryve Mon 01-Oct-12 16:15:16

It worked wonders with DS1, who was very colicky and gassy. DS2 had quite bad reflux, but was never uncomfortable enough to try it with him. He just covered me with half digested milk, then went back to feeding. I just burped him lots.

duletty Mon 01-Oct-12 16:16:31

ICBINEG you are charm personified aren't you

good luck with your ranting

Infacol didn't work for my colicky son. He screamed harder.

Gripe water worked well.

monkeysbignuts Mon 01-Oct-12 16:21:04

thanks for that, having a dumb moment lol.
My son would not part with his wind no matter what I tried sad

The colic was horrendous wind with my son. So I suppose I could just say awful wind. But the crying began at 5pm and escalated until about 10pm, with his knees up to his chin with the agony.

<shudders at the memory>

The farts were rather amazing when it all finally came out the other end though wink

realises she's bringing the tone of the thread down, and gets coat

McPhee Mon 01-Oct-12 16:23:28

Threads like this piss me off

Parenting is hard enough without randoms adding more to the pile

It's not damaging, so why does it matter so....

CandiStaton Mon 01-Oct-12 16:29:16

my 2 screamed and wouldnt settle
i gave them infacol; it made them burp
they stopped screaming and went to sleep

it does help them to bring up gas...and so is useful in some cases

like others have said, colic just describes a pattern of crying

InvisibleHotPinkWeasel Mon 01-Oct-12 16:32:31

So two trials on an average of 55 children each 12 years ago far outweighs generations of successful users on a condition that no one knows the actual causes of, so therefore not what a surefire definitive treatment would be?

Based on this you expect everyone to go "Gosh, thoses studies are definitive? hmm

OP. Time to step away from google.

SofaKing Mon 01-Oct-12 16:33:41

Was told to use Infacol by HV, who said I would need to use it for at least three months to get any benefit. Funnily enough three months is the age most colicky babies get better hmm.

I would never object to anyone buying and using it, I have heard many people who say it has been of genuine help with their babies, but I think a HCP pretending a placebo drug has some health benefits and encouraging extended use in small babies is just wrong.

Ds2 did not have any of the infacol or gripe water foisted upon us but did stop crying eventually. I think he just didn't like planet earth very much at first!

Asmywhimsytakesme Mon 01-Oct-12 16:35:13

YANBU - couldn't agree more!

YANBU

FairyDairyLand Mon 01-Oct-12 16:43:54

Infacol was a life saver for us with my sons very bad reflux..

As taught to us by a SCBU nurse, sucking a dummy is very good for reflux in babies due to the swallowing action it causes. And dipping the teat of a dummy in infacol made my son suck it when he was in pain (the strong taste shocked him slightly to stop him screaming, and then the sweetness made him suck suck suck) :D

jamdonut Mon 01-Oct-12 17:04:24

I would have gone insane without Infacol being available!
Benefits outweigh the problems in my opinion.

ICBINEG Tue 02-Oct-12 00:26:06

As I said earlier, it works wonders for wind and possibly even reflux (although I haven't seen or looked for evidence on that as my baby burped/farted like a dream and had no reflux but still had the colic).

So why not simply market it as helping with wind?

There is a ton of evidence that the colic crying business is not usually connected to wind, both from trials but also from direct experimental evidence measuring the gas fraction in babies guts.

I just don't get why they are claiming it does a thing that it doesn't....

I mean ibuprofen is a fab drug and works well beyond placebo but it doesn't cure cancer....

SuperB0F Tue 02-Oct-12 01:00:26

I used to call it DoesFuCall. Just sayin'.

SoggySummer Tue 02-Oct-12 01:04:53

If nothing else its something to try when all else has failed and you as a parent are feeling wretched with your crying baby.

Its hope in a bottle at the very least!

AhsokaTano Tue 02-Oct-12 01:09:14

We use Infacol for adult patients having gastroscopies and colonoscopies. It helps them release the wind caused by the procedures.

It also seems to help my 3 week old release her wind, so I'm happy to part with my £4 and keep the faith.

VforViennetta Tue 02-Oct-12 01:33:17

So it doesn't help with colic, which probably is silent reflux in quite a few cases, which is never diagnosed and resolves itself when the baby is older.

For us, it did actually seem to make winding easier and quicker, dd did seem to scream a lot more than the other two children, we did use infacol which helped a little. In her case, she was the only child, and sometimes was overstimulated. I used to rock and cuddle her to sleep, she used to fight this like a gooddun. One day I got fed up of this struggling and popped her in her cot, she went off to sleep on her own, it was a revelation.

Ds1 was a very calm baby and would get himself off to sleep every time, was just the wind stopping him, infacol certainly helped with the endless winding process.

BeeWi Tue 02-Oct-12 01:33:47

YANBU. Those in the thread being unnecessarily aggressive, saying 'shut up' and the like ABU.

Neither infacol or gripe water worked for us with colic but going to a cranial osteopath did. As for LO's reflux, only me cutting out all dairy seemed to make a bit of difference.

katykuns Tue 02-Oct-12 01:40:00

Worked for my DD1 to bring up wind. I didn't buy it thinking it would solve all our problems, I bought it because I just wanted something to ease her discomfort.
It worked for us, and I will continue to recommend it to others who are struggling.

It helped DD2, but not as successfully as DD1... we know now that a lot of her distress was overtiredness and sensory overload. Also, moving on to hungry baby milk helped.

CandiStaton Tue 02-Oct-12 07:05:40

because ICB colic just describes the pattern of crying. My dd1 'had colic' in that she screamed/raised knees to chest early evening...like i said previously this apeared to be caused by trapped window. Infacol helped to relieve the trapped window and ease the crying

therefore the manufacturers are not incorrect in saying that Infacol helps relieve wind are they

there website said 'it is clinically proven'. Presumably, as is nearly always the case with everything, there is lots of conflicting research?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Tue 02-Oct-12 07:13:08

Eh, what? I'm pretty sure that I knew Infacol helped with wind, colic has complex causes, one of which can be wind, therefore Infacol might help with colic by helping with wind, but helping with wind was a fair goal in itself.

Boggler Tue 02-Oct-12 07:15:43

Infacol definitely helped my dc's with wind, they were both very windy babies and it made burping them much easier. As for colic I think that covers such a range of symptoms and causes I don't think there is anything that cures it fully - the person who discovers a cure for colic will become very very rich.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Tue 02-Oct-12 07:20:39

Infacol's marketing message and text on the box will be very heavily regulated by the way.

Jelly15 Tue 02-Oct-12 09:14:08

I am shocked as it worked for my DS. He suffered awfully from colic and within a week of using Infacol he had no problems at all.

CandiStaton Tue 02-Oct-12 09:23:49

therefore the manufacturers are not incorrect in saying that Infacol helps relieve wind are they

sorry, i meant colic

DesperatelySeekingPomBears Tue 02-Oct-12 09:28:04

At least its a fairly cheap thing to try. Colief, I've been told, also does bugger all for general colic but they charge nearly £15 a pop.

Bluegingham Tue 02-Oct-12 09:38:31

I'd like to add that if infacol was a lifesaver with "very bad reflux" then the baby didn't have "very bad reflux." For FUCKS SAKE. I'm hiding this thread, it's making me stabby.

ICBINEG Tue 02-Oct-12 14:34:40

candi

they are specifically incorrect in saying "Clinically proven to significantly reduce the frequency and severity of crying attacks associated with colic." because the balance of clinical evidence says otherwise.

It doesn't make any odds that colic is a symptom definition, the trials measured the symptom and Infacol does not help beyond placebo while other treatments do.

They can say it helps bring up wind etc. because the balance of clinical evidence is that it does indeed do this beyond placebo.

People on this thread are assuming a link between having wind problems and colic which simply isn't true in the majority of cases. If it were true that colic was caused by wind then curing wind would be the same as curing colic, but as the majority of true colic suffering parent and baby teams will tell you (and also the research literature), it really isn't true.

ICBINEG Tue 02-Oct-12 14:38:57

blue I think it helps if you discount the comments of anyone who has said "we did X and it helped with behaviour Y".

IF they were worth listening to they would say "we did X and behaviour Y changed, but of course we have no evidence that X was in fact the cause of the change in behaviour Y".

Seriously if you remove all the comments from people who have proved themselves incapable of getting this concept then the thread reads like a dream...

But colic is a catch-all term for babies screaming. It's as likely to be wind as anything else!

Infacol contains a surfactant. It makes little bubbles into one big bubble, which makes babies easier to wind.

I think colic doesnt exist. Before anyone shoots me, DS1 had colic. But if so many babies get it, maybe its just babies being babies, IYSWIM?

ICBINEG Tue 02-Oct-12 14:46:47

long that just isn't true. If a baby screams for 45 minutes and then fart like a trouper and settles then it does not fall into the definition of colic at all.

If you (and people have) take a group of babies that scream for at least 3 hours a day at least 3 days a week and give them infacol or a placebo, the infacol group does NO BETTER than the placebo group.

If you give babies that have trouble bringing up wind and scream a bit after meals infacol or a placebo the infacol group does better.

Hence infacol may claim to treat wind but not colic.

Surely that is simple enough?

Ahh, youve also just reminded me that last weeks stupid health visitor told the group to give Colicky BF babies water (luckily none of them were BFers except me)

ICBINEG Tue 02-Oct-12 14:48:32

Colic is a behavioural pattern. It exists as a behavioural pattern. Some therapies have been demonstrated as effective in reducing the time spent in the colic behavioural pattern and other havent.

ICBINEG Tue 02-Oct-12 14:52:02

beyond well in her defence it won't be worse than giving them infacol. Assuming we are talking a sip rather than a drink.

Where do these random memes come from? There is no evidence that giving water to BF babies is a good idea so how exactly did the idea arrive in the HV's head?

GreyGardens Tue 02-Oct-12 14:54:07

I thought colic WAS wind?
Behavioural pattern? That sounds like utter bollocks to me.

noblegiraffe Tue 02-Oct-12 14:57:25

One of the studies I was looking at the other day (so haven't got link) said that in the placebo group 29% of respondents reported an improvement in colic symptoms. That's nearly 1 in 3 parents satisfied from giving a placebo. Even if infacol is no better than placebo, I'd take those odds.

ICBINEG Tue 02-Oct-12 15:01:41

noble hmmm well one possibility is that people simply under-reported crying more after giving the treatment. Which might be nice for the parents but isn't really that much help to the screaming baby....

also if there are treatments that do EVEN BETTER than the placebo, wouldn't you rather spend your money (or given that the most effective treatment is free - not spend your money) on them?

ICBINEG Tue 02-Oct-12 15:02:16

grey sorry that the medical definition of colic doesn't meet with your approval...

BeattieBow Tue 02-Oct-12 15:03:02

I don't see why you are bothered tbh - if it helps stop the whole evenings of crying that I have gone through, then so what? I'm willing to do practically anything not to be walking my screaming baby around until 2am night after night.

Most of us aren't stupid we do go into this with our eyes open.

noblegiraffe Tue 02-Oct-12 15:16:03

hmmm well one possibility is that people simply under-reported crying more after giving the treatment.

That is a possibility, although you'd hope that a well-designed trial would make that less likely.

From my own experience, I know that we had some dreadful evenings before giving infacol, then some peaceful ones. Then we stopped the infacol and the crying started again, only to improve once infacol recommenced. I know I wasn't personally under-reporting, I was acutely aware of the difference!

Placebo or otherwise, you'd have found it quite difficult to prise it from my hands in the early days.

ICBINEG Tue 02-Oct-12 15:32:58

noble on the topic of well designed trials I thought you would like to know that the original 'clinical trial' to which infacol's advertising refers shows no placebo effect whatsoever (ie. the control group saw no improvement in crying at all). The mind boggles. I mean I actually don't know how you could screw up a trial that badly....

All the trials I have found involve asking people to rate the level and frequency of crying. Some are at the time and some are after the fact unbelievably.....

Ben Goldache would cry....

noblegiraffe Tue 02-Oct-12 15:37:06

All the trials I have found involve asking people to rate the level and frequency of crying.

But how else could you do it? Obviously this should be rated at the time rather than after the fact, but sometimes clinical trials just have to work with this sort of qualitative data and treat it with caution in the analysis.

ICBINEG Tue 02-Oct-12 15:38:50

beattie I care about this because the medicine market is flooded with products that claim to treat without any evidence of efficacy. Okay when it is colic and it will pass with little in the way of lasting harm then maybe it doesn't matter so much, but in general the world would be a much better place if you were not allowed to sell as medicines, substances that had not been shown to work against the things you claim that they had.

I mean it's just lying to get money....or erm fraud as it is also known.

I have no problem with buying bottled hope when there are no real alternatives...but in this case there are. To take money from hassled parents for a remedy that works less well than one they could have for free seems morally dubious...

ICBINEG Tue 02-Oct-12 15:39:49

Well you could use a tape recorder....that would seem to remove at least some subjectivity...

He probably wouldn't - and neither would Ben Goldacre.

Where is this "medical definition of colic", then? Because I'm working from a book written by an obstetrician.

MrsKeithRichards Tue 02-Oct-12 15:53:13

<head explodes>

To summarize, it's the name you have issue with?

It helps with wind, wind makes babies cry, colic is a term used to describe extensive crying in babies, infacol might stop that crying.

Here's a thought, don't use it.

CandiStaton Tue 02-Oct-12 16:04:39

I believe, the medical definition of colic, is a baby that shows intense crying/fussing for more than 3 hours a day, at least 3 days a week for at least 3 weeks

there is no one cause, and often a cause cant be identified i.e. NO ONE KNOWS

sometimes trapped wind does cause colic (as defined above) and infacol relieves the symptoms

CandiStaton Tue 02-Oct-12 16:07:24

as for random memes there are many many cultures where this is the only way that health information gets passed; and many are age old and very valid, even without clinical trials to back them up

CandiStaton Tue 02-Oct-12 16:08:21

i would get your point, if the manufacturers were claiming that all colic is caused by trapped wind/ infacol cures all cases of colic....but they arent

Hmmm

My dd is nearly 7 years old and suffers with trapped wind....I give her a high dose of infacol because she is too young for windeeze and it does seem to work after about 10 minutes...

Interesting evidence though.

noblegiraffe Tue 02-Oct-12 16:36:35

ICB apart from tape recorders not all recording at the same volume, the necessity of using them consistently and presumably hiring one person to listen to all of them, how many parents do you think would sign up for a trial which involved them being recorded hour after hour, night after night while they dealt with their screaming baby?

Exactly.

Yes, that's exactly what I believe Candi

ICBINEG Tue 02-Oct-12 19:28:19

long well you need a better book if it doesn't have an up to date definition of colic....

you are probably right about BG not giving a crap...he already wrote all about how trials done the way the infacol trial was done are flawed and give nonsensical data....so no need to go there again. It's just depressing.

MKR I have a problem with them stating it is clinically proven effective against colic when it has in fact been clinically proven to be ineffective against colic.

goosegooseduck Tue 02-Oct-12 19:44:53

why dont you cite an up to date definition?

With the best will in the world, ICB, you're talking nonsense. You're acting like colic is a well-understood complaint whereas the point is it's not understood, and is a vague term with a number of possible resolutions. It could, in fact, be reflux or wind or over-stimulation. A lot of doctors think it is over-stimulation.

It's not a matter of BG not caring about Infacol. But were he in general practice, he may well suggest a surfactant - at least to try to eliminate wind as a potential solution. A lot of medicine and science is a process of elimination. Things frequently are not black and white.

MrSunshine Tue 02-Oct-12 20:16:29

There is no up to date definition of colic. It still means crying periods of defined duration, thats all.

ICBINEG Wed 03-Oct-12 13:47:46

Have I gone insane? The definition is long repeated periods of inconsolable crying in an otherwise healthy infant.

How is that not a definition? It doesn't give a cause...but that doesn't stop it being a definition. I mean isn't that the same as say 'meningitis'? It has a symptom based definition that doesn't specify the cause....that doesn't mean there is no definition surely?

If you claim to treat colic then you are claiming to reduce the duration or frequency of long repeated periods of inconsolable crying. If the clinical data says that your product does not in fact do this any better than placebo then you should not be able to claim that it does.

Honest to god this isn't rocket science....

ICBINEG Wed 03-Oct-12 13:51:53

long it simply doesn't matter if colic is complex or if it's causes are fully understood....either infacol reduces colic in babies more than a placebo or it doesn't. And it doesn't. So how come they claim it does?

The evidence that infacol helps with wind is just another nail in coffin of the idea that wind is in any major way associated with colic. Because if infacol does help with wind but doesnt help with colic then how the hell CAN wind be a major factor in colic?

MrSunshine Wed 03-Oct-12 14:06:40

you said up to date definition of colic, your implication being it had somehow changed. It hasn't. Try reading the posts, both your own and others.

ICBINEG Thu 04-Oct-12 10:13:17

well people had been saying they thought colic was wind....

I mentioned there was in fact a medical definition and it wasn't to do with wind...

long said "Where is this "medical definition of colic", then? Because I'm working from a book written by an obstetrician."

hence I replied that s/he might need a better book if it didn't have and up to date definition.

In context of the thread I think it is clear that 'up to date' meant moving on from the whole windy/colicky interchangeable mess.

Is that okay with you?

BeattieBow Thu 04-Oct-12 13:53:25

ICBINEG - have your children had colic? It doesn't seem to me that yours have - if they did, you would understand why people do give infacol to their babies.

Mine have had something that has caused them to scream for hours on end at night. I don't know what it is because they can't tell me. For my own sanity (because I have recently spent many days rocking a screaming baby until 3am and I have other children, a life and my health to think about and because I can't sleep all day) , and because I will do anything that may stop my child being in pain/discomfort, I have given infacol. it doesn't harm, so what's the problem with it? and possibly coincidentally it appeared to have a positive affect.

I do not think I have been conned. I don't know if it works. I don't' think it harms, and no one has told me of a better solution.

ICBINEG Thu 04-Oct-12 17:18:06

beattie my dd had classic colic, the late in the day inconsolable screaming for hours with the back arching and knee drawing up business. But on the basis that she always burped like a dream and never sickied up at all, we never considered that wind/reflux was an issue. Our HV suggested infacol and I was all set to run out and buy some till my husband got 15 mins on the internet and pointed out the NHS page showing it does nothing beyond placebo.

15 more minutes and he found the current state of play on colic (that in the majority of cases it is caused by over-stimulation - hence it builds during the day and recovers over night) and that there are a range of behavioural treatments that work beyond placebo. We also learned that our DD not napping at all during the day is not normal and leads to vast over-stimulation and that DD had several other indicators, including not playing with toys, screaming if she saw a person that wasn't me or dh, refusing to let anyone touch her hands etc.

So we changed everything around....we just said no to visits or leaving the house, we took away everything from her cot, DH and I had to avoid wearing bright colours or stripes etc, gave her her own space in a darkened room and spent hours and hours everyday trying to get her to settle and nap. Reducing the stimulation level to the point where napping happened coincided with the colic behaviour disappearing altogether, overnight.

Now of course not every baby exhibiting colic behaviour is over stimulated, and not every baby that is over stimulated could be treated successfully by the same intervention, but at least the behavioural approach HAS been demonstrated more effective than placebo.....and if I had followed the HV's advice I would have been trying infacol for 'a few weeks' (the period my HV suggested it might take to work - yeah - that would be because it doesn't actually work..and you have to wait for a random fluctuation to occur before declaring victory) before looking onwards for a real solution. If we had suffered another 3 weeks of that before finding out we had been conned we would have been seriously distressed.

BeattieBow Fri 05-Oct-12 07:15:29

(I was slightly playing devil's advocate because I don't think my dd4 does have wind and I don't give her infacol as it seems clear to me now she has reflux as my other children did.)

I find your post interesting though ICBINEG because I had reached the conclusion that for my dd too it's over tiredness that causes her issues. Like yours, she doesn't sleep during the day and now, at 5 months, it doesn't happen every evening. Unfortunately because I have 5 other children and a busy life, it isn't possible to remove all stimulation from her life.

But at the same time, I'm not sure why you're so angry about infacol use - but if you are, this thread would have been better used as an advice thread to parents with colic-sufferers, sharing your experience.

ICBINEG Fri 05-Oct-12 14:09:10

Yes I can see that it is a very different thing dealing with colic in a pfb than a sixth child (my god I can not even imagine it!).

I think it makes me angry because while I have no problem providing hope when hope is the best known remedy, I have a big problem in making a profit selling something that doesn't work when there are things that do. IT just seems immoral....

But yes I should probably get over it one day soon...smile

charlienash25 Fri 05-Oct-12 15:18:50

Each baby is different. Infacol worked on my daughter a treat for her colic! I used to dip her dummy or bottle teat (water/juice) into some gripe water too.

ICBINEG Fri 05-Oct-12 15:25:53

charlie how do you know it worked?

charlienash25 Fri 05-Oct-12 15:43:30

Well when she didnt have infacol she would scream for hours, scrunching herself up into a ball.
Give her a dose of infacol and she was asleep within half hour or laughing her head off

atacareercrossroads Fri 05-Oct-12 15:49:44

Infacol also worked a treat for DS1, was so glad when I found something that worked. He used to be doubled over in pain, poor little thing sad

DilysPrice Fri 05-Oct-12 16:20:58

I agree that they are being disingenuous in selling a product which probably works well for a very specific condition for a much wider range of conditions for which it doesn't work any better than Smarties. Some babies have trapped wind and can genuinely be helped by Infacol but they'll make more money by flogging it to everybody with a crying baby.

I gave it to DD who went through a very grumpy trapped wind phase and it seemed to help. An acquaintance of mine saw me giving her drops and said "Oh that's rubbish, it didn't help my DS's colic at all" so I asked "Did your DS have trapped wind then?" "No confused" she said. She'd clearly been missold an entirely inappropriate product (and totally failed to inform herself about the nature of the products she was squirting down her baby's throat <hoists judgy pants>).

OTOH it's very safe and relatively cheap, so it's not the worst case of misselling I've seen and it's low down on my list of stuff to get cross about.

ICBINEG Fri 05-Oct-12 16:51:38

dilys heh...don't worry I am EVEN more angry about lots of other things....still it more worthwhile being angry about then homeopathy as it does actually have an active ingredient and hence presumably the risk of side effects is higher...

charlie and you evidence that the infacol was responsible for the change is?

DilysPrice Fri 05-Oct-12 17:12:59

It's very slightly more risky than sugar pills I gues, but as I understand it the effects are physical/inorganic rather than the sorts of organic chemistry that will interact with your body chemistry - hence should be intrinsically safe. Caveat - I am not a biochemist (as you can tell from the flaky way I'm explaining it), anyone who is can feel free to overrule me.

charlienash25 Fri 05-Oct-12 17:29:10

icbineg if you had a headache, were to take a paracetomol and go to sleep then wake up with no headache, would you say the paracetomol worked? or would you say the sleep helped? confused

Bit of a stupid question imho.

When DD had infacol, she was fine. If she was without it she was clearly in pain with trapped wind. Thats enough evidence for me to say it worked a treat for her. hmm

Like i did state though in my first post, everyone is different.

atacareercrossroads Fri 05-Oct-12 17:48:18

Yes Charlie, apart from the fact that it worked, what evidence do you have that it worked? grin

charlienash25 Fri 05-Oct-12 17:51:17

Dont even think i should put any words here
clearly, lol. hmm

Boggler Fri 05-Oct-12 18:23:50

Lol icbineg so desperately doesn't want to believe any of us that think Infacol is beneficial.

My dr and HV both say that colic is a catch all description of a multitude of symptoms that cause young babies to cry inconsolably for hours, therefore if there are many causes could it equally not be the case that many things can help relieve the problem? I think it does, Inacol helps my dd and quiet time helps the op's lo. I'm sure that just as many will swear by gripe water, boiled water, tummy massage, bicycle legs etc etc. colic is awful and any parent with a colicky baby will try anything until they find something - anything that helps. But different things work for different babes - fact.

ICBINEG Sun 07-Oct-12 20:49:09

charlie My Aunt smoked a lot...she then gave up smoking and got diagnosed with cancer...at some point she got told there was no point treating and took up smoking again...after a period of apparent remission she decided to pack in the fags again and went rapidly downhill...

If anything my Aunt has more evidence that stopping smoking causes cancer than you have that infacol worked for your baby.

But it would be stupid to make such a sweeping statement based on the subjective personal evidence of one persons experience wouldn't it.....

Just because things happen after each other doesn't mean that the first thing caused the second.

ICBINEG Sun 07-Oct-12 20:52:53

boggler ha...I have no problem whatsoever believing you think that infacol treats colic....but have I no more respect for your 'view point' than the millions that also think homeopathy worked for them....or anything else that the balance of clinical evidence simply doesn't support.

Although...it must be said that all the people on here saying it worked actually seem to be talking about wind...which, as I have said a million times, is not a problem....they can say clinically proven to treat wind....just not colic.

Iggly Sun 07-Oct-12 20:53:00

YANBU OP.

My two have has awful reflux. And colic from overtiredness.
When my GP offered infacol I was hmm because I had read it can be a bad move for reflux type babies especially silent reflux and I knew it was not proven to work. I got proper meds instead. Worked a treat.

JollyJack Sun 07-Oct-12 20:55:53

Haven't read the rest of this thread.

There was one day DS cried all day. And I mean ALL day. He was a few weeks old. He slept briefly then cried again. I though I was going to have to send him back. I thought I was going to have to kill DH. That evening I gave DS infacol. He burped hugely. Then he stopped crying and went to sleep.

There were no other times it worked that well, but that day it may have saved my sanity or at least our marriage.

I find it very very difficult to burp. I think DS may have inherited this and the infacol helped.

AnnaLiza Sun 07-Oct-12 21:27:30

YANBU
I share your pragmatism. If there's no evidence it works, it shouldn't be prescribed or recommended by HCPs. End of.
Don't understand why some posters are vein defensive hmm

Scheherezade Sun 07-Oct-12 22:19:00

Agree with op my baby would scream in the evening, once we started a strict early, quiet calm bedtime it stopped.

Shagmundfreud Sun 07-Oct-12 22:28:00

Wind is not colic.

Smethicone may help with wind.

From NHS Choices: here

"Colic is the medical term for excessive, frequent crying in a baby who appears to be otherwise healthy and well fed. It is a poorly understood yet common condition, and affects around one in five babies.
If your baby has colic, they may appear to be in distress. However, the condition is not harmful, and your baby will continue to feed and gain weight normally. There is no evidence that colic has any long-term effects on a baby’s health.
A baby with colic may have several crying outbursts a day, a few times a week. The crying pattern usually begins within the first few weeks of life but often stops by the time the baby is four months old, and by six months at the latest."

Bloody advertising authority should take all these fucking snake oil salesmen to task for selling products on the basis that they are colic cures.

here

here here

Shagmundfreud Sun 07-Oct-12 22:29:46

"Don't understand why some posters are vein defensive"

This thread has made me laugh.

You might as well give your baby homeopathic remedies.

lovebunny Sun 07-Oct-12 23:22:27

i give the rabbits infacol when they have tummy ache. it works on them.

AnnaLiza Mon 08-Oct-12 07:50:05

shagmun you've misunderstood my post!
I totally agree with OP. I wonder why people are defensive of Infacol not the other way round!

ICBINEG Mon 08-Oct-12 09:40:26

bloody hell....now my husband is on the infacol....okay so he has some sort of explosive wind issue post gastroenteritis....but still....for the look of the thing...he could have found a different simeticone product smile

shag thanks for the cool calm reason...it sometimes feels like we are truly post rational as a society....

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