to have been infuriated by this driver?

(235 Posts)
Gentleness Mon 01-Oct-12 01:22:04

Part of the route we were taking tonight was closed for roadworks and there was a long diversion. In the end it added 30 miles to the journey on winding single carriageway roads, almost all clearly marked as national speed limit. We soon ended up 3 cars behind a little car being driven at a steady 40 despite all the signs. 1 car managed to overtake quite early on on a rare straight stretch but it was rainy, dark, hilly and winding so much that there just weren't other opportunities. 20 miles we were stuck behind this fool who either didn't notice the long stretch of diverted cars stuck behind her, didn't notice the many places she could have pulled in, didn't know what the national speed limit sign meant or was too anxious to take it all in and respond appropriately to the situation. Or just didn't care. Who knows?

Eventually I managed to overtake ( which is how I know she was female) but I was so cross at her incompetence that I honked the horn at her as I did. Ok, I know that bit was unreasonable, but dh thinks it was unreasonable to be cross with her at all. I don't - pointless maybe, but justified given that however nervous, she could have pulled over rather than hold everyone up for so long. So, your opinions please - worthwhile anger or not, do you think her driving was enough to anger?

ripsishere Mon 01-Oct-12 01:31:50

YABU. Some people (looking at you ILs) are incapable of driving anywhere near the speed limit. Nervousness, tiredness choose of one those.
Honking the horn was unnecessary, although I'd probably have done the same thing.

kdiddy Mon 01-Oct-12 01:35:44

People driving so far under the limit annoy and worry me. It makes me question their driving competence and general awareness. Having said that if it was dark and rainy, and she was on a strange road, I can see how a less than confident driver could panic and slow down. Would have been good for her to stop to let others past though, if for no other reason than she was causing a situation where cars were overtaking in those conditions. I'd have been annoyed and wanted to honk but don't think I would have done that, just seethed inwardly.

ErrorError Mon 01-Oct-12 01:38:03

Winding single carriage roads, rainy, dark, hilly.. There could be a number of things going on here. Driver being nervous/tired as rip says. Driver may have not been familiar with the road. Just because the speed limit says 60, doesn't always mean it's safe to do so. Sorry but YABU.

Gentleness Mon 01-Oct-12 01:42:39

If someone is incapable of driving anywhere near the speed limit, or can't respond to their nerves or tiredness by taking themselves off the road for a quiet sit, I question whether they are competent enough to be driving in the first place. That's the root of my anger really.

ripsishere Mon 01-Oct-12 01:46:41

I agree with you. I often question whether either Fil or SiL are competent drivers. I do know that DD is not allowed in the car with them.
I do still think YWBU though.

ErrorError Mon 01-Oct-12 01:47:47

I suppose, but you don't know which it was in her case. She could have pulled in yes, but if she wasn't familiar with the road then she may not have known where was safe to, in which case safer to keep going. If people want to overtake they do so at their own risk. Speaking from experience because I live in a very rural area where sometimes you have to go as low as 30 in a marked national speed limit zone... otherwise you'd end up in a gorge round the next bend. I don't enjoy going that slowly or do it to piss other drivers off, I do it to be safe.

Charleymouse Mon 01-Oct-12 01:54:56

She's probably driving even slower now due to someone pipping her! Ha ha.

Unfortunately there are a lot of incompetent drivers out there.

CaliforniaLeaving Mon 01-Oct-12 02:01:21

YABU I agree with one of the other posters, Dark, unknown roads, rain, and hills. Chances are you were probably close wanting to pass, and so didn't give her space to slow and pull over for you.
You are supposed to drive at a speed that is safe for the conditions, for her that was 40, annoying? Maybe, but not illegal surely.

musicmadness Mon 01-Oct-12 02:09:51

YABU, just because it was national speed limit doesn't mean it's safe to drive at 60. There are roads near me that are 60 which are extremely unsafe to drive at speed over if you are in a small car due to the state of the road, and that is in the day.

A dark, hilly, winding and wet road doesn't sound particularly safe to do 60 on to me. She could of pulled over I guess but if she didn't know the road well I doubt trying to find a safe place to stop was the first thing on her mind.

LST Mon 01-Oct-12 04:35:42


My dad only drives over 40 on the motorway. And so would I.

LST Mon 01-Oct-12 04:37:58

Oh and there's nothing wrong with my dads awareness. He still goes on bike rally's. He just doesn't like driving fast.

AngryBeaver Mon 01-Oct-12 04:39:34

Oh god, don't drive at 40 on the motorway, that is SO dangerous!

complexnumber Mon 01-Oct-12 05:04:36

Rainy, dark, hilly, windy? 40 mph sounds quite appropriate to me.

Incidently,travelling 20 miles at 40 mph would take 30 mins. The same distance at 60 mph would take 20 mins. So you got all hot, bothered and aggresive over a 10 minute difference.


startwig1982 Mon 01-Oct-12 05:24:34

Yabu. I live near no real major roads and all the roads are windy and bendy. Although the limit is 60 I go below that due to the nature of the roads. Ywbvvvu to beep your horn. Poor woman in the other car, how horrid for her.

sashh Mon 01-Oct-12 05:25:52

In my family drivers like this are known as 'collectors', as in, "I saw a collector with 5" for a car with 5 behind.

TheMonster Mon 01-Oct-12 06:51:47

She would probably have been sworn at by me as I went by. I'm an angry driver.

Familyguyfan Mon 01-Oct-12 06:55:10

I'm not commenting on the specifics of this, as I wasn't there and therefore don't know. However, driving much slower than the speed limit can be extremely dangerous. A relative of mine failed his rest for driving too slowly and being too cautious.

Familyguyfan Mon 01-Oct-12 06:55:31

Not his rest, his test! His driving test!

Bluegingham Mon 01-Oct-12 07:01:01

YANBU. Behaviour which puts other drivers in a prolonged state of agitation is dangerous and makes them take risks they might not otherwise bother with. Anyone causing a tailback Shoujd pull over.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 01-Oct-12 07:02:09

40mph on the motorway is slow enough to get you pulled over by the police. Its dangerous as other cars aren't expecting you to be going this slow. My mum was pulled over once for doing 40mph as she was "bedding a new car in". She's convinced you shouldn't go over 40mph for the first 1000 miles.

CailinDana Mon 01-Oct-12 07:07:13

Were you tailgating her?

HecateHarshPants Mon 01-Oct-12 07:08:21

So, the conditions were these

winding roads
bad weather

and you were cross that she stuck to 40?

I'd have stuck to 40 on a rainy night round windy roads!

Add in your circumstance of roads you are unfamiliar with

Do you have any idea how dangerous little winding roads can be? I live in a rural area. The little roads are often national speed limit. If you do anywhere close to it, you'll cross onto the other side of the road on a bend - or be unable to stop to avoid someone in the other direction who has! Or you'll rear end a tractor, or you'll do an emergency stop for hikers or horses, or run over a sheep.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that because a sign tells you the maximum speed you are allowed to go - that it is safe to go at that speed.

Can you imagine the carnage of a load of diverted cars going 60 down a winding road in the dark?

She probably did you all a favour.

ZonkedOut Mon 01-Oct-12 07:09:02

AngryBeaver, I think you misread. I read it
as they go over 40 on motorways, 40 or less everywhere else.

Admittedly, 40 on a dual carriageway or a lovely single carriageway is still inconsiderate and could be dangerous.

I think 40 in the conditions described in the OP isn't outrageously low though. I can imagine the driver was not very confident at night in poor conditions on strange roads. I just hope she shrugged of the beep as an impatient nutter and didn't let it dent her confidence further.

HecateHarshPants Mon 01-Oct-12 07:10:07

meant to add - a speed limit is that - a limit, not a target. You must assess the road and the conditions. If that means going much slower, then you have to. You don't blindly follow the signs. that will kill you!

InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers Mon 01-Oct-12 07:13:46

Reverse aibu?

Mrscog Mon 01-Oct-12 07:22:38

Exactly what Hectate said. It is NOT appropriate to drive at 60 on a windy, hilly, single carriageway road in the dark. Instead of being angry, consider that this person may have saved you from a nasty accident.

You know when you hear of carloads of people being killed on country roads? They are the ones who either haven't adjusted their driving or are victims of someone else's unadjusted driving.

Reconsider you driving style in the countryside before you have an accident.

I would agree though that it is considerate to pull over in these circumstances and let maniacs pass.

noblegiraffe Mon 01-Oct-12 07:22:44

National speed limit, not target. There are national speed limits near me where you'd have to be an idiot to drive down them at 60.

And a rainy, windy road on a dark night sounds like one of them YABU.

twofalls Mon 01-Oct-12 07:27:42

So it was rainy, dark, windy and hilly and you think 60 would have been safe? It probably wouldn't have been. As my speed awareness leader said @the speed limit is a limit. Not a target".


mynameis Mon 01-Oct-12 07:28:35

Sorry but YABU that would have been the speed I would have been driving in those conditions too.

I won't risk mine or my families lives to please other drivers

60 was the limit, not the speed everyone has to travel at!

I get annoyed at people regularly doing 40 in a 60 limit on a particular road, but that's because its a long, straight, wide road with good visibility. You can very safely do 60mph there.

I'm a fast driver, and confident driving on winding country roads, but I would do 40mph in the situation you describe. 60 would be too fast.

AnitaBlake Mon 01-Oct-12 07:43:22

I drive fast and confidently - on roads I know well in perfect conditions. I have driven at 20 and less on the same roads depending on the conditions. I was taught to ignore traffic behind me, give extra space and time (by reducing speed) if I felt drivers behind were too close and use my own judgement to determine my speed within the speed limit of the road. YABVVU. I would only pull over to allow people to pass if there was a mechanical fault on my car which meant I was causing an obstruction, not if I felt I was driving appropriately for the conditions.

AnneTwacky Mon 01-Oct-12 07:45:40

If is was a hilly, winding single carriageway road and raining then maybe the driver felt 40 was the safest speed especially if she was unfamiliar with the road.

The speed limit is a maximum not a target and taking into account the conditions you describe I can understand why someone would not be doing 60. To be honest I don't think I would have been either.

Chandon Mon 01-Oct-12 07:49:57


those roads account for 70% of all accidents, and if you have not driven on them before, so don't kniow where the curves are, and it is dark and and rainy?

I would not go faster than 40 then.

What was such a life-and-death matter for you to be in such a hurry by the way?

yabu for honking.

The road belongs to everyone, not just people who drive the speed limit. there is no obligation to drive the speed limit in adverse weather conditions.

bigsnugglebunny Mon 01-Oct-12 07:51:24

YABU - everyone else pretty much said it, but you're supposed to slow down in the rain anyway, because of the impact on your stopping distance.

OTheHugeManatee Mon 01-Oct-12 07:54:09

YANBU to get annoyed but U to beep at her.

Chandon Mon 01-Oct-12 07:54:22

....guess it must have been a reverse aibu, with hindsight and considering the OP's name!

PurplePidjin Mon 01-Oct-12 07:57:20

A wiggly rural road in adverse weather conditions? I live near plenty of those, and been driving them regularly for 10, and 40 is a nice safe speed. I would not expect to go faster, and I know the route (in some cases from years of daily commuting)

Yabu and driving pretty recklessly.

Bunbaker Mon 01-Oct-12 08:04:56

"My dad only drives over 40 on the motorway. And so would I."

Even on a straight road during daylight and in good weather conditions? If you are too scared to drive at 45/50/55 under those circumstances I hope you are considerate enough to pull over and let other vehicles past.

OP - if this road you were on was a diversion I expect the driver was unsure of herself. That said, does she never use her rear view mirror? Was she unaware that there was a huge tailback behind her?

Incidentally the police are just as likely to pull someone over if they were driving significantly under the speed limit (in good driving conditions) because they would suspect that the driver might be unwell or under the influence of drugs or alcohol. In good driving conditions it is inconsiderate and can be dangerous to drive too slowly because other drivers take risks to overtake. You can fail your driving test if you "fail to make sufficient progress" as well.

YABU. Dark, rainy, windy, and a hilly road with lots of bends that she possibly didn't know well as it were a diversion route- she was the one driving at the correct speed.

HiHowAreYou Mon 01-Oct-12 08:16:24

I think YABU too. 40 sounds reasonable in those conditions!

If it took you so long to overtake then it was clearly a very windy road. In wet conditions she was doing a safe speed and you were driving like a git. If I were your dh I would refuse to get in the car with you again till you've addressed your anger issues.

RuleBritannia Mon 01-Oct-12 08:25:50

Well, Gentleness. You have been told advised.

noblegiraffe Mon 01-Oct-12 08:28:37

I was driving on a nice straight road in clear conditions at 60 yesterday. The guy behind me was right up my arse, weaving from side to side clearly wanting to get past. At the first break in oncoming traffic he overtook, only to have to pull in directly in front of me as there was a long line of traffic all doing 60. His stupid, aggressive driving achieved the square root of fuck all as he had to stay there the rest of the way.

Sometimes it's not the person in front who drives like an arsehole.

MrsAceRimmer Mon 01-Oct-12 08:32:18

YABU - dark wet windy roads? Going at 60 could have killed you! Poor woman. I live in the middle of Aberdeenshire, and see countless cars in fields because drivers do not adjust their speed to the road - one sharp bend and your car flips into the fields. It makes me angry and sad to see this.

Tuttutitlookslikerain Mon 01-Oct-12 08:33:26

YABU, for all the reasons every one else has said. I always think it is better to arrive 10 minutes later, than not arrive at all!

Sirzy Mon 01-Oct-12 08:33:31

I agree with the majority.

Some roads which are marked a national speed limit even in good conditions you would have to have a death wish to drive at 60. Given the conditions 40 doesn't seem at all unreasonable, actually it sounds pretty sensible

SammyTheSwedishSquirrel Mon 01-Oct-12 08:36:02

There's only one thing more annoying than needlessly slow drivers (and in this case it sounds like that wasn't the case anyway) and that's angry and aggressive drivers.



40 sounds like a perfectly appropriate speed for the conditions. I live on a national speed limit road that is hilly and windy, and tbh I rarely go much above 40 on it even in the daylight, never mind at night in the rain. Its not safe to go at 60 - there are sharp bends with no real warning that have a massive drop on one side into a river, and a sheer rockface on the other side.

And I bet if you'd been taking a driving test under the conditions you describe, you'd have been well and truly failed for overtaking and beeping so you could go at an inappropriate speed.

abitcoldupnorth Mon 01-Oct-12 08:42:57


Every time I get tailgated by an Audi and then overtaken on the windy country road we live on, I know that 2 miles down the road I will come straight up behind the same driver now stuck behind a tractor/rubbish truck/3 small cars.

It's such a risk to drive at that speed for no advantage whatsoever.

Pagwatch Mon 01-Oct-12 08:44:08


It is just dickish really and I've noticed its often Audis too

But then I didn't learn to drive until I was 30 and so after all those years on the bus I'm just grateful to be going anywhere above 25 mph grin

VinegarTits Mon 01-Oct-12 08:45:19

YABU the speed limit is there to stop you driving over that limit, that doesnt mean you have to drive at the speed limit, especially on a dark, rainy, hilly (possibly unfamiliar to her) road, i would say 40 was quite a reasonable speed to drive in those conditions

its impatient drivers like you that are likely to cause accidents in the conditions like you describe, and getting road rage with someone because they are not as fast or confident as you would like them to be is totally unreasonable

OldCatLady Mon 01-Oct-12 08:47:06

As my dad is always telling me, it's a speed limit , you can drive up to it. dads one of those twatish drivers, I'd have done the same as you!! Though I probably would have added some flashing lights when I was behind them too!

DebbieTitsMcGee Mon 01-Oct-12 08:50:19

The road to my mum and dad's is like that. I know every twist and dip and do 50 on a dry day and 40 or even 35 if conditions are bad. If I drove a newer better car perhaps I'd go 5mph faster.
There are loads of bad accidents due to unimaginative wankers who think they must drive at the speed limit minimum or tailgate sensible people.

What makes anyone so arrogant that they think their desire to arrive somewhere ten minutes earlier trumps my right to stay alive and uninjured?

DebbieTitsMcGee Mon 01-Oct-12 08:52:02

Oh yeah YABVU and may you get stuck behind a tractor every time you have an appointment smile

PurplePidjin Mon 01-Oct-12 08:52:28

OldCatLady, that would make me slow down. I would want to piss you off further would find your tail-gating and flashing extremely distracting in already dangerous conditions angry

VinegarTits Mon 01-Oct-12 08:52:42

god i cant stand twats who flash you to get out of the way, i always think that maybe they are in such a rush because they have the shits, or at least i hope that they will get the shits for driving like a cunt

There was a thread a while ago about tailgaiting on the motorway/dual carriageway.
The general advice was to ignore them, not to antagonise them by braking or touching the brake pedal to give them a 'red light' .

So, this driver should have pulled over TBH.

But yes, 40 mph in these conditions sounds a good enough speed.
And you don't know what's in front of that driver.
(As I said to the prat who was up my arse tailgaiting me last week when I moved lanes to avoid a piece on plastic guttering on the road and he, erm, didn't) hmm

freddiefrog Mon 01-Oct-12 08:53:36

I do get annoyed at people driving massively under the limit, but if it's dark/windy road/raining/etc then I'd drive at a speed safe for the road and conditions.

I live rurally with no motorways or dual carriageways and I'm always stuck behind someone doing wildly under the limit (27mph all the way home in a clear, straight 40-50 limit last night) and it drives me mad.

nightowlmostly Mon 01-Oct-12 08:54:40

People going 40 on a clear national speed limit road get my goat OP, sometimes one of the routes I travel frequently seems to always have someone on it going too slow. It's really annoying.

In the situation you describe, I would probably be the one at the front tbh! I hate driving on unfamiliar country roads when I have to go a bit under the limit because I don't know where the bends are. Mainly because there always seems to be a driver who knows the road well behind me who tailgates because they want to go faster!

OP YABU, sorry. Next time take a deep breath and stay calm. A few more minutes won't kill you, just be patient!

Sirzy Mon 01-Oct-12 08:55:36

I don't think she should have pulled over. She wasnt crawling along she was driving at what sounds like a safe speed for the conditions

squeakytoy Mon 01-Oct-12 08:58:10

40mph is plenty fast enough on long dark unfamiliar winding roads. As others have said, just because you can go as fast as 60, it doesnt mean you have to if the conditions are not suited to it.

MummysHappyPills Mon 01-Oct-12 09:02:07

God how horrible. Poor woman. How aggressive to beep at her. I personally think that inconsiderate drivers like you shoukdn't be allowed on the road. 40 mph is not that slow anyway, especially on a winding country road, that she probably doesn't know. I live in the country, and most roads are not safe to go 60 on, especially round bends. If you don't know the bends and turns coming up it foolish to drive at the speed limit. It is no coincidence that most deaths occur on such roads, often young drivers going too fast.

So what, you got home 10 minutes later? Better late than dead. Shame you had to bully and intimidate another road user into the bargain. Yabu and I agree with your husband. At least he sounds like an intelligent man with a bit of patience and tolerance.

"What makes anyone so arrogant that they think their desire to arrive somewhere ten minutes earlier trumps my right to stay alive and uninjured?"


MummysHappyPills Mon 01-Oct-12 09:03:53

If you keep your speedometer at 60 and went round a sharp bend without slowing down, you would leave the road and go off into a hedge. How is that good driving?!

AngryBeaver Mon 01-Oct-12 09:05:51

Right sorry, misread. Although, I still think 40 mph on a dual carriage way is too slow if conditions are fine.
op Yup, I know you wanted to get home quicker, I understand that,but I think she was very sensible going at the right speed for those conditions. I would do exactly the same thing. You were intolerant...and mean

MorrisZapp Mon 01-Oct-12 09:08:04

Glad to see the sensibles are winning this one. Op and her ilk make a mockery of the likes of Jezza Clarkson et al who argue that motorists don't need to be 'nannied' by speed limits and cameras, and that they are perfectly capable of driving appropriately for the conditions.

The reality is that most motorists think it's a huge inconvenience to have to drive under the posted limit, regardless of conditions.

Fog, snow, heavy rain. Ime motorists do not adjust their speed for these unless made to, with the threat of cameras etc.

Britain is not, and never will be, able to sensibly police it's own driving speed.

TandB Mon 01-Oct-12 09:10:08

Excessively slow drivers drive me insane. I sat behind someone on a main-ish road the other day, doing 20 mph for several miles.

But 40mph in those conditions wouldn't get me wound up. Yes, I might go a bit faster myself, but I wouldn't think someone else was unreasonable for doing 40mph which isn't really that slow. We live down some lanes where you are technically allowed to do 60mph but in reality 30mph would be too fast.

You were extremely unreasonable to beep at her and could easily have caused a nervous driver to brake hard, not realising what you were beeping about.

janey68 Mon 01-Oct-12 09:10:34

I am shocked at people trying to defend this driver by saying maybe she was tired. There is no 'safe' speed if you're tired- you pull in, take a rest and let other drivers past.
If there were legitimate reasons such as weather for her driving so slowly then that's different.

TandB Mon 01-Oct-12 09:12:09

I meant to say that it is also easier to be the car behind in some conditions and on some roads. Down our country lanes I quite often get tailgated by people who are effectively being protected by my car. If I wasn't there they wouldn't be able to go any faster because of all the blind bends.

steppemum Mon 01-Oct-12 09:18:14

Are you my Mother?
She can't bear to be stuck behind someone driving slowly, and gets wound up.

I don't like it, but given dark wet hilly conditions, she was driving at her safe limit.

I am not prepared to waste emotional energy being cross with drivers. It probably took you 5 minutes longer. All this anger for 5 minutes? There are more important things in life

TerracottaPie Mon 01-Oct-12 09:21:41

Also agree with the majority.

In addition to the driving conditions which means YABU you need to remember it's always easier to see when you are the one behind the car rather than the one in front.

You have their movements and brake lights to guide you when you need to turn or brake and by how much. They just have their headlights and judgement. And when cars are coming in the opposite direction you don't even get to use your headlights. Add in unfamiliar roads, rain and winding hills it's not really surprising she was doing a safe 40mph.

TerracottaPie Mon 01-Oct-12 09:23:16

X post with kungfupanda. God I type slow grin

LonelyCloud Mon 01-Oct-12 09:25:27


In the conditions you describe, 40mph doesn't sound unreasonably slow. And the presence of national speed limit signs doesn't necessarily mean everyone should be trying to do 60mph. There's plenty of national speed limit country roads where I live where it would be insanely dangerous to even attempt to drive at 60mph.

And if she was unfamiliar with the road, given it was a diversion, she may not have known where was safe to stop until she was too close to the lay-by or whatever to pull in safely.

fluffyraggies Mon 01-Oct-12 09:39:09

I meant to say that it is also easier to be the car behind in some conditions and on some roads. Down our country lanes I quite often get tailgated by people who are effectively being protected by my car. If I wasn't there they wouldn't be able to go any faster because of all the blind bends.

Kungfu DH calls that a 'meat shield' grin blush ugh

BlueberryHill Mon 01-Oct-12 09:41:32

"What makes anyone so arrogant that they think their desire to arrive somewhere ten minutes earlier trumps my right to stay alive and uninjured?"

Agree also, YABVVVU

I also live in a rural area, very windy and if it is dark, as Kungfupanda said, you are following someones tail lights, which is a lot easier than if you are at the front and trying to drive.

Also for everyone saying she should pull over, if its dark and you don't know the route, you cannot see where to pull over until you are on it / past it. So to pull in you need to slam the breaks on, which is dangerous, especially if some arsehole is tailgating you. Unless you go at 20 mph, so annoying everyone else even more.

BlueberryHill Mon 01-Oct-12 09:42:51

X-post with Terracotta and Lonely.

Does anyone think the OP is coming back?

LonelyCloud Mon 01-Oct-12 09:44:43

The OP was at 1:22am. Maybe the OP is still in bed, or having breakfast?

fluffyraggies Mon 01-Oct-12 09:46:16

Y'know i've just thought - although i'm a pretty speedy driver (rural area) i DO slow down more than is strictly necessary if i've got some twat behind me with their brights on or a 4x4 with lights set badly dazzling me to buggery!

Perhaps that was happening to the woman in front of the OP?

OhSoSimple Mon 01-Oct-12 09:47:58

YANBU to expect someone to pull over and let a stack of cars past if they were doing a speed not appropriate to the road conditions. 40 mph seems quite low an I live in a very rural area. Obviously if there was a queue of cars behind her she probably was going unreasonably slowly.

Thingiebob Mon 01-Oct-12 09:57:27

I'm with hecate earlier up the thread.
Unfamiliar road.
Idiots tailgating her...

40 sounds sensible.

Blu Mon 01-Oct-12 10:05:42

and impatient
and rude
and aggressive.

Things which can add up to 'dangerous'.

It can be frustrating when someone is going slower than you would like to but the road belongs equally to them as to you. Calm down.

LilyCocoplatt Mon 01-Oct-12 10:06:11

Also going to add to the chorus of YABUs, in those circumstances of darkness and bad weather on rural roads I would have driven below the limit too, and anyone beeping or flashing me would have probably resulted in me driving slower because it would stress me out more.

MrsGWay Mon 01-Oct-12 10:07:10

YANBU the conditions are irrelevant. If anybody wants to drive slower than the speed limit they can do. However if they see a great big queue of traffic behind them they should pull over. It is in the highway code - show some consideration!
Also 10 minutes can make a big difference to someone going home from work if the have children. They might not see them before they are asleep for the night.

evilgiraffe Mon 01-Oct-12 10:08:12

If you're in a queue of traffic at night you have much better visibility of the road ahead due to the headlights/taillights of those in front of you. The person in front has a much more restricted view as they've only got their own lights and oncoming traffic to provide clues about corners etc.

Having said that, if the person was driving at a flat 40 for twenty miles regardless of cornering, puddles and the like I would be a bit suspicious of their ability to judge the road. It would not be unreasonable to expect them to speed up a bit for straight stretches, and not doing so is unsettling and irritating.

It is weird how easy it is to collect a queue even when you ARE doing the speed limit, mind you. If I get wankers tailgating I just flip the rear view mirror so I'm not blinded and carry on. I'm a pretty quick driver too, so have no sympathy with dickheads behind me desperate to overtake when I'm already going at the speed limit.

PurplePidjin Mon 01-Oct-12 10:10:08

Actually, the time difference is likely to be less than 2 minutes over that distance.

Dp and a mate delivered a car - dp in nice modern company car, mate in 20yo van. Distance of 70-80 miles. Dp zips off up the motorway, mate arrives less than 10 minutes later despite dp doing 70+ and mate 55...

And that was clear, daylit roads.

rogersmellyonthetelly Mon 01-Oct-12 10:11:04

Yabu. Speed limits are a maximum not a target! You mention dark, hilly, winding roads in the rain. What part of those makes you think that 60moh would be a better speed than 40mph?
Sounds like the driver annoying you was driving at a sensible and safe speed for the conditions and the road, and the idiots in the tailback behind were the ones in error.
I've lost count of the fuckmuppets I've almost run into who insist on driving at 60mph down the narrow twisty windy road near our house in the dark and rain, despite the fact that it's only wide enough for 2 cars if one is up on the verge. I even had one bloke doing 40mph in the snow last year, with packed snow and ice on the road and near zero visibility. Thankfully I ran into the hedge to avoid him rather than the tree 6ft from my bonnet.

geegee888 Mon 01-Oct-12 10:12:59

YANBU. Theres too much emphasis on speed in this country as the cause of accidents, and the quality of driving is ignored. If someone is only capable of driving at 40mph because its dark and wet, doesn't know the roads, and is unaware of long tailbacks behind, IMHO that is an usafe driver. She could have managed 50mph, or pulled over to let cars past.

Abra1d Mon 01-Oct-12 10:19:41

I have some sympathy with the OP.

We often get stuck behind people driving, even in broad daylight, in good conditions, at 30mph on a national speed limits road we rely on to get into school/commute, etc. That is, they're driving at half the speed limit on the road.

They do not check mirrors at all so have no idea that they are keeping a queue of traffic waiting. It is selfish--on a road and in conditions where they could pull over. And yes, after years of patiently sitting behind them, I do now flash them when we come to places I know they could pull in.

Some people do not understand the different speed limits.

tiggytape Mon 01-Oct-12 10:21:57

YANBU the conditions are irrelevant. If anybody wants to drive slower than the speed limit they can do. However if they see a great big queue of traffic behind them they should pull over.

The speed limit is just that though - the absolute maximum for the road assuming good visibility, dry road surface and safe conditions. It isn't the minimum speed or the ideal speed or the safe speed and in such poor conditions (dark, rain, hills, single winding road with no way to see what's up ahead) going below the speed limit is no only reasonable but the safest thing to do.

We travelled down to the south coast over the Summer and got up really early to set off (still dark and thick fog rolling in off the fields around Stone Henge reducing visbility less than 10m - it is the first time I have ever used the fog lights on my car) and guess what - people were still travelling at 80!!
They aren't super human. They can't see through fog any better than I can.

They are just complete idiots who decide the speed limit (or 10MPH above it) is totally appropriate for every journey no matter how little of the road they can see ahead and think anyone who doesn't agree must be a nervous driver unfit for the roads!

HmmThinkingAboutIt Mon 01-Oct-12 10:25:35

Just because the speed limit is 60, doesn't mean you have to drive at that speed. People who think you should make me want to beep at them for being dangerous twats. As half the thread has said 40mph in rainy, windy, hilly conditions on a country road after dark, is completely fine. Lets not forget that a lot of cars drive different and have better road handling than others. I noted the fact it was a 'little car' - which makes more likely that its road handling isn't the best. I've noted in the past that the fuckwits who beep at others like this, have a tendency to drive particular types of powerful cars - they are therefore just ignorant pricks who have an attitude that they own the road and how dare little cars share it with them.

If you want to drive like a maniac fine and end up upside down in a drystone wall, but don't be abusive to others for driving with a brain cell.

P.S. What time of night were you beeping her at? It was after 11pm wasn't it?

P.P.S. Why the emphasis twice on the fact she was female?

P.P.P.S. I'd love to know what car you drive.

P.P.P.P.S. Whats more dangerous - driving slowly in bad conditions or overtaking in anger in bad conditions?

Gentleness Mon 01-Oct-12 10:29:31

Hmm, phone post from earlier this morning didn't seem to make it! I was amused at those who thought it was a reverse aibu! My name is aspirational rather than reflective sadly.

I completely agree with all those saying respond to the road conditions but this driver wasn't. As I said, she was at a steady 40 ALL the time - wide bends, tight bends, rain stopped, rain pelting it down, uphill or down. Those of us stuck behind her were varying our speed and braking distances but even where it was perfectly safe to do so ( though not necessarily safe enough to pull out, gain speed and overtake) she went no faster. And even when 30 would have been safer age stuck to 40! That to me speaks of someone without a lot of road- sense or the sense to recognise it's time to stop. There were well signed parking lay-bys! Panic is not a good excuse.

Scares me that there are drivers out there who just carry on regardless. I agree I was unreasonable to be angry with her - pretty pointless - and definitely to have beeped. blush But I still think she was a prime example of drivers who can't be trusted to be safe. To those who think you should just drive at the speed you feel is safe for you, at what point do you say it is time to stop altogether?

In my defense for the anger, we were 20 miles off on a diversion and I knew we were nowhere near the main route yet, and at least 200 miles to travel once we rejoined it. For all I knew, I'd be stuck behind her for another 20!

Startailoforangeandgold Mon 01-Oct-12 10:31:52

Dropping to 50 in some places for safety on an unfamiliar road, in the rain, I can understand.

40, on a decent two lane road is just down right rude and dangerous.

People will get fed up and over take in stupid places, they shouldn't, but they do.

We have a lot of, unnecessary, 50 limits.
Good 60 capable roads crippled by our stupid council.

People do 40 on them too!

Drives me absolutely nuts!

SonOfAradia Mon 01-Oct-12 10:36:01


60 is a limit, not an instruction. If she was unfamiliar with that windy road on a dark, wet night, it seems fairly reasonable to me.

Pendeen Mon 01-Oct-12 10:38:14

Agree with all the above regarding assessing the conditions and driving accrdingly. Sounds like you (OP) were BU.

However if the driver in front was one of these idiots...

" My dad only drives over 40 on the motorway. And so would I. "

then perhaps your irritation had some foundation!

evilgiraffe Mon 01-Oct-12 10:40:08

Oh yes, Startail, fecking fifty-fairies ruining good roads. Oxfordshire has been particularly afflicted by pointless 50 limits, it does my head in when we visit the ILs. And to think my driving instructor used to tell me to speed up from 50 on THOSE SAME ROADS before the limits came in... And then the "slow" paint that people brake for, even though that was there before the limit changed and is largely unnecessary now people are already going 10mph slower...

BlueberryHill Mon 01-Oct-12 10:42:23

In that case, well sign posted lay-bys and 40 mph regardless, YANBU.

MrsBethel Mon 01-Oct-12 10:50:23

The driver would almost certainly have failed a driving test for persistently driving at an inappropriate speed, so YANBU.

If you're not capable of driving above 40, you shoudn't be on the road at all.

Erm, I have a bit of sympathy for slow drivers (and I'm a speedy one). I KNOW it's dangerous to hold up and exasperate people, but having aquaplaned and written off my car some months ago I understand why some people get nervous on wet roads and go slower than might be necessary.

Being very, VERY rural, we have a lot of elderly people still driving as well. Personally I think it's better they still have some mobility and independence, even if that means I have to crawl along behind them for 5 miles or so. My 'right' to drive at the limit versus their 'right' not to live in sheltered accommodation is a somewhat larger moral question than the Highway Code can answer.

margerykemp Mon 01-Oct-12 11:00:08

She was probably driving at that speed cos you were stuck up her bum.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

suburbandream Mon 01-Oct-12 11:20:08

rainy, dark, hilly and winding... if I was on an unfamiliardiversion I would probably have been doing 40 as well, but I would try to pull in and let the tailgaters overtake. Having witnessed two accidents last week where drivers were not being careful despite the terrible driving conditions I am inclined to be overcautious I'm afraid.

tiggytape Mon 01-Oct-12 11:39:14

The highway code gives 4 reasons when you should drive below the speed limit:
125 The speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions. Driving at speeds too fast for the road and traffic conditions is dangerous. You should always reduce your speed when:
i. the road layout or condition presents hazards, such as bends
ii. sharing the road with pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders, particularly children, and motorcyclists
iii. weather conditions make it safer to do so
iv. driving at night as it is more difficult to see other road users

So she was still doing the right thing by going more slowly than the speed limit. Three out of four main hazards that necessitate reducing your speed existed so there is no way she should be attempting 60MPH in those conditions (even on long straight bits because at night, and in the rain, a corner is harder to spot as you approach and harder to react to on a wet surface)

The fact she drove at a constant 40MPH though isn't good and indicates she was probably going slightly too slow at times and slightly too fast at others. But then being tail-gated can be hugely offputting and maybe, instead of slowing down even further for the very tight bends that you think were safest at 30, she was too scared to do this because of the aggressive vibes from the driver behind her.

Whatever you think about her driving style or nervous state - YABVU to expect someone to drive at 60MPH on that road in those conditions no matter what the maximum speed limit for the road is so whilst she shoudl have been varying her speed according to each stretch, she still was doing the right thing to be well below the whole way.

ivykaty44 Mon 01-Oct-12 11:46:55

YABU there is no lower limit to driving speed and if she wants to drive at 40mph then she or he can.

It is up to you to overtake safely. The other drive does not have to pull over to let other drivers pass because they want to drive slower or faster etc. This in itself would be dangerous for all manner of reasons.

It added a whopping 10 minutes to your drive if she drove at 40mph instead of driving at 60mph - but at least you are here today able to post this post and not dead through a car crash

ShellyBoobs Mon 01-Oct-12 11:47:11


There's driving cautiously and then there's driving at a speed where you could be going 50% faster and still not be speeding!

I'd have been fuming following someone doing 40mph when the national speed limit applied.

I'd hazard a guess that she had no idea there was anyone behind her; the sort of people who drive so slowly as to be causing a hazard generally have no awareness of what's going on around them.

If I was a traffic officer I'd have pulled her over and made her walk as she'd probably have got where she was going quicker than driving.

ShellyBoobs Mon 01-Oct-12 11:53:29

YABU there is no lower limit to driving speed...

There are minimum speed limits. They're indicated by blue circular signs with an mph figure on them.

The other drive does not have to pull over to let other drivers pass because they want to drive slower or faster etc.

See highway code rule 169.

tiggytape Mon 01-Oct-12 11:56:51

ShellyBoobs - really?
See I just don't understand that at all. She obviously does have good awareness. She is aware the limit is 60 but it also ware it is raining, it is dark, it is a single carriageway road and there are steep and sudden bends and hills.

If she was in the middle lane of a motorway on a clear summer's day doing 40MPH then she is obviously unsafe, inconsiderate and shouldn't be on the roads. She is in fact a huge danger to everyone around her.
But on a dark night in terrible weather on a bendy, hilly road with minimal visability.... you really think driving on the limit of 60MPH would be the mark of a good driver??

tiggytape Mon 01-Oct-12 11:58:46

See highway code 125 that tells you to drive below the limit if it is raining or dark or on a winding road.

Since all three applied here, she was doing the right thing to drive quite a bit below the limit (although I do agree with OP that she should have been a little faster on long straight bits and even slower than 40 on tight bends)

ShellyBoobs Mon 01-Oct-12 12:01:45

She is aware the limit is 60...

But we don't know that, tiggy.

I recently followed an elderly gentleman who was doing (according to my speedometer) 38mph in a 60mph. He proceeded to carry on through the 30mph limit we entered at the same speed - he was pulling away from me as a I slowed for the new limit. I don't think he had any idea of the speed limits and just drove at a constant speed everywhere.

Maybe the lady in OPs post did the same thing?

HmmThinkingAboutIt Mon 01-Oct-12 12:03:06

Anyone going to look up the highway code on beeping aggressively?

ivykaty44 Mon 01-Oct-12 12:06:05

Shelly the woman wasn't driving a large or slow moving vehicle - this would refer to a tractor driving slowly. If you have a car behind you that is wanting to drive 10-15mph faster , then how would you actually know this? it is possible that there was a long queue of traffic as there was to much traffic on the divertion route

As for minimum speed limit it is rare - but when used it is usually 40mph which was the speed the lady was driving - though it is very doubtful on a country lan there would be a minimum speed limit as tractors would use country lanes and struggle at times to get to 40mph depending on load

ShellyBoobs Mon 01-Oct-12 12:08:13

ivy, the rule says 'especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle'; not exclusively.

ivykaty44 Mon 01-Oct-12 12:08:34

hmm - your hooter is for warning other traffic not for aggression, not for picking up a lift, not for seeing a friend and attracting their attention,

ivykaty44 Mon 01-Oct-12 12:09:20

the rule say slowly - 40mph is not slow - otherwise why would there be 20mph max limits and 30 max in towns

HecateHarshPants Mon 01-Oct-12 12:10:37

You didn't say any of that in your first post. In fact, you were quite clear.

" but it was rainy, dark, hilly and winding so much that there just weren't other opportunities."

now you say it wasn't rainy, hilly or winding? just sometimes? But it was also dry and straight and she didn't speed up then.

If you'd said that, then I am sure you'd have got a resounding YANBU

But you painted a picture of adverse weather conditions and winding roads and so you got the response you did.

ineedamiracle Mon 01-Oct-12 12:10:41

The speed limit is just that - a limit, not a number to be achieved wink

Very annoying for other drivers but better than her (or anyone else) ending up in a ditch.

tiggytape Mon 01-Oct-12 12:12:44

Shelly - no we don't know that. But even assuming she was totally unaware of what the limit was (but why would she be?), by happy accident she was doing the right sort of speed for the road and the conditions.

Don't get me wrong, I have been huffing and puffing at times when I'm stuck behind someone on a clear, dry road in broad daylight who for some unknown reason has taken it upon themselves to drive at 23MPH.
I try to be charitable and think maybe they're lost or their exhaust is about to drop off but it is hugely irritating. I don't beep or tailgate them though, I just wait until I can get past safely.

OPs situation is different from this and from your oblivious old man who drives at 38MPH everywhere. This was a genuine case of a time when the only safe thing to do is to deliberately drive quite a bit below the speed limit. No doubt on a fine, clear day, you could sail down that road at 60MPH (apart from the bends!) and be totally safe. But not at night and not in the rain.
Just because the national speed limit applies and is 60MPH doesn't mean you should be doing 60MPH in all weathers and at all times of day - far from it. There will be weather conditions where even 40MPH wouldn't be safe ton that same stretch of road. Drivers are supposed to note the speed limit and drive at it unless conditions are poor in which case they are supposed to drive at less than it.


I live in the country, National Speed Limit appears on many winding country roads where you would have to be a total nutter to drive anywhere near 60MPH. Often these are single track roads with high hedges where you cannot see anything coming until you are almost upon it.

The national speed limit is applied to roads where no other speed limit has been set, usually because there are no houses/domestic areas where speed limits are required. It is not applied because someone has officially deemed 60mph as a 'safe' speed for the road.

There is nothing wrong with driving at 40mph on a narrow winding country road if that is the speed you deem safe. There is everything wrong with hitting your horn as you overtake someone because YOU have decided you don't care for their safety choices.

WanderingWhistle Mon 01-Oct-12 12:52:56

Also 10 minutes can make a big difference to someone going home from work if the have children. They might not see them before they are asleep for the night.

So this is worth driving round someone on a bendy wet road just so you don't miss your kids for one night. Or going to fast on a wet road just bacuse the limit is higher and you have stuff to do.

Hmm 1 night of no goodnight versus all lives on the road.

This is the kind of selfish attitude from the ME ME ME drivers out there that forget what mirrors are for. All thats in your head is what I want to do ti and not the road is filled with other people who have life agendas too.


1-2. whatever, lives versus hundreds of others

Startailoforangeandgold Mon 01-Oct-12 13:17:01


Slowing for slow paint that was done before the 50 limit was put in place, why???

Why can't people drive according to the road?

And yes that also means not doing 60 on narrow lanes.

Trouble is lots of the high speeds on the back roads probably wouldn't happen of everyone wasn't running late due to numpyties doing 40 on the A roads.

Unfortunately allowing 30% more time if you live in the middle of nowhere adds up to a lot of frustration. Sometimes it just isn't possible.

In many cases on rural roads, all the national speed limit means is that the road has not been assessed (I was told on the advanced driving course work send us on to bring down their insurance bill).

There's certainly a single track road near us (with passing places) that you'd be mad to do more than 30 on. Blind bends every couple of minutes...

tiggytape Mon 01-Oct-12 13:58:23

It is true that limits on country roads often far exceed the safe speed for the road.

The London 2012 cycle race, held on Box Hill, for example was discussed at the time because it is has a zig zag, winding road (with some high hedges preventing visibility and near 180 degree turns). It is also single carriageway. The limit there was 50MPH.

It was only set at 50MPH as it is classed as rural and has no street lights. It didn't have a 50 limit because anyone thinks it is a good idea to take hairpin bends faster than you'd drive down an average dual carriageway. It was 50 by default.

Obviously you'd have to be a complete maniac to take a zig zag path at 50MPH especially as dozens of cyclists were on that road even before the Olympic fame and actually people didn't. I've just looked it up (out of curiosity) and the police are going to lower the limit to 30MPH in January 2013 but even now, when the limit is still 50MPH, the average speed on that road is only (according to all the surveys) only 33 - 38MPH so obviously most people do use common sense and don't sit on the limit oblivious to conditions.

Pendeen Mon 01-Oct-12 13:59:52

" ...20 miles we were stuck behind this fool who either didn't notice the long stretch of diverted cars stuck behind her... "

Either the driver was unaware of, or unconcerned by the queue she had created.

Such a person needs further training.

tiggytape Mon 01-Oct-12 14:09:37

Pendeen - further training to do what exactly? To drive far in excess of a safe speed in poor conditions with limited visibility?

Or further training to realise quickly a queue is forming behind her of idiots who think 60MPH on a country lane in the pitch black and pouring rain is a good idea and training to ignore her own common sense and do what they want her to do instead?

It is perfectly possible to be at the head of a long queue of traffic (traffic was on diversion in this case hence there was a lot of it) and not be at fault. If you cannot go any faster because it wouldn't be safe to do so and if it is a narrow winding road, someone has to be at the front.

What an unpleasant thing to do. However annoyed you were. Your horn is for warning other drivers not admonishing them.
I haven't been driving very long and I feel very intimidated in situations like this. Unfamiliar road, dark, a small older car. I may well have driven exactly the same. And someone tooting at me could easily have damaged my confidence.
My engine is tiny, so when I hit a particular hill on my way to work I have to drop to third and floor it to get it up the hill anywhere close to the speed limit of 50. There's no way that I could overtake on this hill if there's a tractor in front, my engine doesn't have the poke. I am nearly ALWAYS tailgated by someone, (often an Audi!) even in fog, rain, ice. The thing is the limit drops to 40 the minute you get to the top, so even if I could speed up, I would have to brake with seconds anyway. Someone hooted and flashed and waved their arms at me last week (I was only a couple of miles below the speed limit) I slowed and rolled down the window and pointed at the 40 speed limit sign. Amazingly, he backed off.

quoteunquote Mon 01-Oct-12 14:41:58


I agree with all said by,HecateHarshPants

and if the driver behind her was closer than the space required to have a safe stopping distance, she would be doing the right thing to slow down,

I did a police driving course for advanced driving thing, and the officers advised that if someone is tailgating to slow to a speed that the gap becomes safe,

dark windy unfamiliar road, it would of been hard to pull over, especially being dazzled from behind,

Every year in this popular south west holiday destination, we have hundreds of accidents by visitors, who don't understand that 60mph on rural road is a limit not a target, there are very few places where it would be safe to drive at that speed.

WithoutCaution Mon 01-Oct-12 14:56:04

almost all clearly marked as national speed limit. We soon ended up 3 cars behind a little car being driven at a steady 40 despite all the signs. 1 car managed to overtake quite early on on a rare straight stretch but it was rainy, dark, hilly and winding so much that there just weren't other opportunities. 20 miles we were stuck behind this fool who either didn't notice the long stretch of diverted cars stuck behind her, didn't notice the many places she could have pulled in, didn't know what the national speed limit sign meant or was too anxious to take it all in and respond appropriately to the situation. Or just didn't care. Who knows?

So the driver of the small car (size of the car is irrelevant as is the sex of the driver) was driving at the right speed for the conditions/ type of road causing you to honk your horn at her?!

It's hardly her fault you were diverted. Did you know what would be around each bend in the road? No you didn't

If you want to drive faster than appropriate for the conditions then so be it but do not get upity when other drivers take a more sensible approach. I never do more than 40mph on one of the 60mph country roads near me as I know that I'm likely to meet a tractor/horse rider/ pedestrian/ cyclist on the road, people who don't know the road do slightly over the limit and end up doing an emergency stop to try avoiding hitting something/someone.

WithoutCaution Mon 01-Oct-12 14:56:39

Well that was a complete fail at underlining blush

Pendeen Mon 01-Oct-12 15:02:07

" Pendeen - further training to do what exactly? "

I would have thought that was obvious. How does a queue form?

Or is it your contention that she decided that her speed was correct and everyone else was wrong?

amicissimma Mon 01-Oct-12 15:03:38

It looks as if the DfT agrees with the driver in front.

Empusa Mon 01-Oct-12 15:06:29

I wonder if that was my MIL, she refuses to do over 40 unless it is a motorway (regardless of conditions) and on a motorway she only makes it up to 55mph.

She freaks out if DH or I drive any faster with her in the car.

VinegarTits Mon 01-Oct-12 15:14:20

have we had the bit were the op comes back to say 'it wasnt that dark/windy/rainy..' because she cant admit she was BU? even thought the majority vote is SWBU

Zalen Mon 01-Oct-12 15:23:45

it was rainy, dark, hilly and winding

Given the above I think YWBVU to expect to travel at anywhere near the National Speed Limit, cliche but remember, it's a MAXIMUM not a MINIMUM.

Gigondas Mon 01-Oct-12 15:25:50

Yes vinegartits (great name )- it wasn't raining, bendy etc all the time so she should have speeded up, drivers like her shouldn't be on the road.

DappyHays Mon 01-Oct-12 15:26:15


You should only honk your horn in an emergency. You were the one in the wrong. If you get that infuriated by other drivers, maybe you shouldn't drive or take some anger management sessions?

ErrorError Mon 01-Oct-12 15:28:14

Yes VinegarTits - "As I said, she was at a steady 40 ALL the time - wide bends, tight bends, rain stopped, rain pelting it down, uphill or down."

I never honk at anyone because you never know if they are a knobhead or if they have made a genuine mistake, and if it's the latter, making them panic could be worse for everyone's safety. I agree with the poster who said she was probably doing you all a favour by keeping you all behind at a reasonable speed.

Whoever said this:
"Also 10 minutes can make a big difference to someone going home from work if they have children. They might not see them before they are asleep for the night."

Surely you'd rather get home alive and safe to a sleeping child than not at all because of some reckless idiots!? This was a diversion and was hardly going to be a permanent issue, so for the sake of a 10 minute delay, I say deal with it.

VinegarTits Mon 01-Oct-12 15:34:00

haha i thought so, always happens on these freds

Zalen Mon 01-Oct-12 15:44:31

I am shocked at people trying to defend this driver by saying maybe she was tired.

Me too! I can see absolutely no reason why she needs any defending, she was driving at a safe speed for the circumstances. Trying to justify it by saying she was probably tired sounds very condescending to me.

ErrorError Mon 01-Oct-12 15:57:35

Deliberate condescension was not meant, especially not by me. It wasn't a justification of the way she was driving, because as you say, and I agree, she was driving suitably for the conditions anyway. We were just pointing out to the OP that there could have been a number of factors contributing to the way she was driving that the OP could not possibly have been aware of. OP was implying that the woman was just incompetent, which most of the rest of us have interpreted as 'sensible'.

VinegarTits Mon 01-Oct-12 16:08:58

does anyone else have catatonia's 'road rage' song in their head while readint this thread? (well you do now wink)

SoleSource Mon 01-Oct-12 16:54:46

agree with Hecate

MrsBethel Mon 01-Oct-12 17:02:57

To all these people saying "well, I drive at 40 on some roads near me" - that is almost certainly a different road to the one the OP was on.

There are some windy roads near me that I wouldn't go above 30 on. There are some other's where you could corner safely at 60 in the rain in a Citroen 2CV.

It all rather depends on the road.

On your road 40 may be appropriate. Here's a clue: if a massive queue of cars is backing up behind you, chances are you're going too slowly. If it's just a single Audi behind you with it's lights on full beam, chances are you're going at a sensible pace.

I agree with Hecate - Gentleness - you were very unreasonable, and it sounds as if you were driving aggressively, which is NOT safe, whereas the other driver was driving sensibly given the conditions.

Pendeen - I also am failing to understand what you would want further training for the other driver to achieve. The drivers behind her, who wanted her to get out of their way so they could blast along a dark, windy, hilly road, in the wet, at 60mph are the ones who need retraining, because that would be dangerous, given the conditions.

I work on this principle - I would rather be 10 minutes late in this life than 1 minute early in the next.

HmmThinkingAboutIt Mon 01-Oct-12 17:08:08

What if its a queue of Audis and BMWs...

ErrorError Mon 01-Oct-12 17:08:19

But as this was a diversion, it wasn't the regular route, therefore would no doubt be busier with backed-up traffic. In normal circumstances, this particular road may not be as frequently used, but the people who do would already know what speed is safe. Chances are most of the drivers using this diversion will not be regular users of this road, so not familiar with it, hence possibly in the case of lady driver in question.

ErrorError Mon 01-Oct-12 17:12:28

My post was for MrsBethel suggesting that a line of cars behind you means the car in front is too slow. Not necessarily - car in front may be a reasonable speed, others behind are just being impatient clearly. If I am going at a speed I believe is safe and other cars get up my jacksy, I let them pass but I don't compromise my own driving or pander to suit angry drivers.

bureni Mon 01-Oct-12 17:14:15

Perhaps the 40 mph driver was not familiar with this road as it was a diversion, imo she was driving at a perfectly safe speed considering the weather conditions and the terrain. Was the driver an R driver by any chance?

OTheHugeManatee Mon 01-Oct-12 17:18:40

I think I'm with MrsBethel. If you're just being tailgated by a single Audi, then that single Audi is being a twat behaving like an Audi and your pace is probably perfectly sensible. But if you've got a huge long queue of cars behind you, you're driving significantly more slowly than the average and should pull in.

It sounds as though the OP was stuck behind one of those car drivers who do 40mph everywhere, whether it's a 30mph through a village or a straight 60mph stretch of open road. IMO such drivers are a menace, as far from being cautious in the interests of safety they show absolutely no awareness of changing road conditions whatsoever. This driver quite possibly didn't check the rear view mirror at all and was completely unaware of the umpteen frustrated cars queueing behind.

That said, as the OP has already acknowledged, beeping the car as you overtake is a bit Audi-ish not really on.

spoonsspoonsspoons Mon 01-Oct-12 17:18:50

I think you were doing quite well if she stayed at 40mph all the time. IME some of these 40 mph drivers like to brake as soon as anyone comes in the opposite direction (two lane roads!)

tiggytape Mon 01-Oct-12 17:25:19

A line of cars behind you doesn't mean you are going too slow anyway so why should this lady's reaction on seeing cars behind her be to put her foot down or pullover?

I am often driving number 3 or 4 out of 10 cars all in a line. It doesn't mean I am secretly seething at car number 1 and willing them to hurry up. It just means a lot of us are all travelling on the same stretch of road, at the same time at the same speed. If I am car number 1 there are 9 cars behind me I don't start speeding up or think I should pull over and let them all go past. Someone has to be the first car and on a busy road / diverted route there is bound to be a snaking queue of traffic all following one after the other.

This lady was doing a totally appropriate speed for the type of road, time of day and weather conditions so upon seeing all the cars behind her, why should she assume they are all willing her to either drive dangerously fast or get out the way? And why should she risk pulling in and out of the traffic on a road that others are going to take at 60MPH on a dark and rainy night?

ShellyBoobs Mon 01-Oct-12 17:36:22

This lady was doing a totally appropriate speed for the type of road, time of day and weather conditions...

No she wasn't.

What speed would you recommend for a dark, rainy, hilly, winding road in the country then, Shelly?

VinegarTits Mon 01-Oct-12 18:21:33

'This lady was doing a totally appropriate speed for the type of road, time of day and weather conditions...'

Yup she was

bumperella Mon 01-Oct-12 18:35:48

Anyone who is either (a) oblivious to other road users, or (b) in unable to pull into parking spaces is a bad driver.
Driving at a speed that causes a huge que to build up behind you and doing nothing to let other vehicles past you is inconsiderate and downright rude, regardless.
Plenty of people on roads are very familiar with the route so will be perfectly able to judge what is a safe speed FOR THEM to travel at. It does sound like just one of those things that happens all the time on rural roads (which are the most dangerous roads to drive on according to fatal-to-vehicle-occupiers accident statistics) though, so getting overly worked up is pointless.

Kerryblue Mon 01-Oct-12 18:41:21

Not read whole thread but YUNBU - AT ALL!!!!!

I can't stand slow drivers like this. They make everyone else behind them cross. She should have pulled over.

Under-confident springs to mind.

Sirzy Mon 01-Oct-12 18:42:17

Or sensible perhaps Kerry? You do realise that drivers are supposed to react to the conditions and not just drive at the speed limit no matter what?

bureni Mon 01-Oct-12 19:06:14

assuming this incident happened in the U.K, what part of the U.K did it happen in as this might explain the 40 mph speed?

missmalteser Mon 01-Oct-12 19:07:16

Op you do seem to have completely contradicted yourself, in your op you said there was a 'rare' stretch to allow 1 car to overtake, but the conditions were so bad the rest of the road there wasn't another opportunity, you then take this back in your second post by saying the conditions where variable, these are 2 completely different sets of conditions which would require completely different handling.

VinegarTits Mon 01-Oct-12 19:20:18

its called backtracking

Gentleness Mon 01-Oct-12 19:21:48

Interesting how assumptions gather momentum. No tail-gating, in fact if you'd read carefully it would be clear there was another car inbetween me and the slow driver. Also the only reason for mentioning her gender was because I didn't want to call her 'it' and wanted to be clear that saying 'she' wasn't an assumption.

The road was winding but not always, it was raining but not always, it was hilly but not always. We're talking about 30 miles of road in total, over 30+ mins. It varies. I didn't think it necessary to be that precise - my mistake. It was sod's law that at any point where it might have been sensible to overtake 2 cars, at least one of those conditions made it unwise. It wasn't a narrow road - another assumption.

And we drive a small car ourselves, not a high-powered one in any way. Once I got past her my speed varied between 30 and 55 depending on the stretch of road - no different variation of conditions, just responsive, responsible, aware driving. Perhaps those people who are insisting her speed was appropriate are missing the point that she wasn't responding to varying conditions.

I'd still like to know whether advocates of driving as slowly as makes you feel safe think there is a time to just stop, and how they think that decision should be reached.

Sirzy Mon 01-Oct-12 19:24:17

So you overtook 2 cars on a country lane and your trying to make out other people are bad drivers?

I would start by looking a bit closer for home for the dangerous driver!

bureni Mon 01-Oct-12 19:24:51

where did this happen?

Gentleness Mon 01-Oct-12 19:26:58

Where did I say it was a country lane? Please, do try to read accurately.

YANBU to have found it irritating, I would.
You were however, an absolute prat and BVU to have beeped at her.

VinegarTits Mon 01-Oct-12 19:28:50

OP nothing you have said in your last post has made me change my mind, i still think you were unreasonably infuriated by this driver, even your own dh thinks you were unreasonable, just accept that this is the majority vote and move on, try to be a little more patient next time smile

Sirzy Mon 01-Oct-12 19:29:45

Ok "winding single carriage roads"

Either way overtaking 2 cars is down right stupid.

Gentleness Mon 01-Oct-12 19:30:28

I know sauvignon. Very blush about having beeped at her.

bureni Mon 01-Oct-12 19:31:31

Op, was she an R driver by any chance?

HmmThinkingAboutIt Mon 01-Oct-12 19:36:20

it might have been sensible to overtake 2 cars

If it was impossible to overtake in the conditions due to the nature of the road then the driver was driving at an appropriate speed. Over taking 2 cars at a time is a grey area in general even in good conditions and is dangerous. ESPECIALLY if like you admit you do drive a small not very powerful car.

You do realise that in addition to beeping someone in an aggressive fashion being against the highway code at the very least you could potentially fall foul of being guilty of 'Furious Driving' with what you did.

Have a biscuit for being a complete hypocrite who could do with a few lessons in driving herself before attacking others for their ability.

gordyslovesheep Mon 01-Oct-12 19:43:23


she was following a diversion, unfamiliar roads, worried about getting lost/missing signs...poor weather conditions, dark ...

HmmThinkingAboutIt Mon 01-Oct-12 19:44:00

And as for saying none of us knew what the conditions were like... I'd like to point out your OWN comment about your attitude from the one person who WAS there and witnessed everything:

but dh thinks it was unreasonable to be cross with her at all

Kind of says something doesn't it. You are just trying to back track and make out you are a great driver when just about everything says to the contrary.

bumperella Mon 01-Oct-12 20:07:31

There are typically plenty of stretches on the roads round here where you can overtake perfectly safley,but sods law states that these are thre stretches when there's something else coming. Hence you get stuck behind someone for 30 miles because whilst some stretches you'd drive at 40 or 35 or whatever, other stretches you can safely do at nearer 55 or 60.
As none of us were there it's impossible to say if the OP was driving recklessly or the car in front was overly-hesitant. BUT if the driver in front was not proficient enough to pull in to let others past OR not aware of other road traffic stuck behind then it does suggest she wasn't driving well.

We don't know she was not sufficiently proficient to pull in, or that she was unaware of the cars behind her. All we know for sure is that she drove at a steady speed, and didn't pull in to let the cars pass her. Maybe she thought she was driving safely for the road conditions, and felt that made it reasonable to carry on at that pace.

With regard to the suggestion that she was driving in a way that might make other drivers cross - surely each individual driver is responsible for their own behaviour whilst driving, and if they are going to drive badly if they are cross, maybe they should learn to control their emotions while driving, rather than blaming others for their (possible) bad driving.

tiggytape Mon 01-Oct-12 22:15:02

advocates of driving as slowly

It isn't about fast drivers versus slow drivers. Most people are just drivers. They drive fast when it suits the road, when the weather is good and they can see what's up ahead
And they drive below 60MPH when it is dark and raining and they're on an unfamiliar road with sudden bends and hills. Even on familar roads though, you should take it more slowly the dark and the rain because, whilst a sudden bend may not take you by surprise, a cyclist or pedestrian still could.

There are a few under confident/oblivious drivers who drive everywhere at 38MPH regardless of conditions and are a danger.
And there are a few nutters who think the speed limit is the absolute minimum required and anyone who dares to duck below it just because its pitch black should get off the roads and leave driving to the experts such as themselves.

But most people just drive as well as they can in the conditions they're in. If she'd been doing this on a motorway at 2pm on a sunny day, we'd all be agreeing with you OP (apart from beeping her) but despite the queue of traffic behind her, it was not actually safe enough to go any faster (as your DH pointed out) and therefore whilst it is annoying to be stuck on a road where conditions are so bad they force your journey time to increase, I don't actually see what you think she should have done.

YouMayLogOut Mon 01-Oct-12 23:32:23


Tobagostreet Mon 01-Oct-12 23:38:49


Dark, rainy, country roads, front driver perhaps unfamiliar with the road PLUS an aggressive driver (you sounding horn when overtakingangry) can all too often end up in an accident being caused!!

Tobagostreet Mon 01-Oct-12 23:43:34

Obviously that was meant to say YABVVUblush

kekouan Mon 01-Oct-12 23:53:20

To the person who said they never drive over 40mph unless on a motorway. I seriously hope you're fucking joking?

I'm not sure it's that easy to just pull in, on a dark, windy, hilly, rainy road if the laybys aren't signposted well in advance. Spotting one when you're only twenty yards from it, doing 40 in the wet, with a queue of cars behind you is not a good time to slam on the brakes and veer into it. Especially if the dark means you can't see if it's only a short one or has potholes in it.

MummysHappyPills Tue 02-Oct-12 09:55:37

I think the "dangers" of slow cautious drivers are being overemphasised here, I am pretty sure that the vast majority of accidents are caused by fast aggressive drivers whose confidence in their "superior" driving skills is often misplaced.

The "slow drivers are just as dangerous as fast drivers" line is just used to justify their arrogance, agression and impatience imo.

mynameis Tue 02-Oct-12 11:00:47

Couldn't agree more MummysHappyPills

Kekouan - I would agree that it is bad driving to never drive over 40mph except on the motorway. There are plenty of roads, and road conditions in which it is safe to drive at up to the national speed limit (where this applies, or a speed limit above 40mph, where that applies).

Do you know, driving under the speed limit now will get you an instant fail on a driving test. It happened to my DH because he went 3mph under the speed on the road he was travelling on. He was not a happy bunny, but they see it as a safety issue.

It is annoying, but then I'd much rather have a slow and steady driver than some of the utter twats we have where I live, the amount of times we've been in near misses due to inconsiderate over the speed limit drivers is ridiculous. Perhaps she was driving at that speed due to the weather conditions, and the road being windy? Using common sense? I doubt beeping at her helped the woman!
It is annoying OP but it does sound as if YWBU as you were miffed at the road closures. Sorry!

bureni Tue 02-Oct-12 15:15:39

Kekouan what if the driver was an R driver? then it is illegal to drive at more than 45 mph even on a motorway.

SammyTheSwedishSquirrel Tue 02-Oct-12 15:17:59

What's an R driver? confused

Is that the new driver sign?

bureni Tue 02-Oct-12 15:28:56

An R driver is a driver who has just passed their driving test and is restricted to 45 mph for a year.

kekouan Tue 02-Oct-12 15:34:12

Yes, but I'm not in Northern Ireland.

Startailoforangeandgold Tue 02-Oct-12 15:34:18

* mummyhappypills* You are of course right, but in an area with miles of pointless 50 limits on good roads and lots of agricultural traffic that clearly has to go slowly, crawling cars for no apparent reason are the last straw.

Especially as the tractors are generally very polite and pull over when they can.

SammyTheSwedishSquirrel Tue 02-Oct-12 15:39:25

An R driver is a driver who has just passed their driving test and is restricted to 45 mph for a year.

Where's this then? Is it a new thing? They didn't do that when I passed my test. You had to drive according to the speed limit and road condtions just like everyone else.

bureni Tue 02-Oct-12 15:39:31

kekuan, maybe thats where this incident occurred which is why I asked the OP 3 times was the driver an R driver and where the incident occurred, I never got a reply. If the driver was indeed an R driver it would explain a lot.

bureni Tue 02-Oct-12 15:41:11

Sammy, its the law in N.I(U.K) and I.O.M. Both learner drivers and newly passed drivers are restricted to 45 mph on all roads unless the posted speed is lower.

SammyTheSwedishSquirrel Tue 02-Oct-12 15:43:20

Oh right. I learnt something new today. I shall use this as evidence to my husband that my time spent on this forum is not wasted grin

kekouan Tue 02-Oct-12 15:44:27

I missed it too bureni, and to be fair I'd never heard of an R driver until I read your last post - had to google it.

I stand by it though (assuming the poster wasn't in NI).

ErrorError Tue 02-Oct-12 15:45:48

fair point bureni, I didn't know what an R driver was either. That would explain a lot, but wouldn't the car also have to have an 'R' plate or something? Which may or may not have been visible in the conditions described.

Tiredmumno1 Tue 02-Oct-12 15:47:10

The R plates don't apply in the UK

bureni Tue 02-Oct-12 15:51:22

The highway code is the same in N.I but the driving test restrictions /mot testing are different, the "R" plates are due to be replaced in January with "N" plates but must be displayed for a full 2 years after passing the test instead of 1. Further restrictions include the passenger age limit for younger drivers, anyone under 24 years of age cannot carry a passenger under 21 years old for a year after passing the test unless immediate family. We also have to display an MOT disc in the car window and the MOT test is carried out at a government test centre not the local garage, it is very strict.

JustinBoobie Tue 02-Oct-12 15:52:05

Under the conditions you describe - YABU.

FWIW - I'll tell you what pisses me off. Drivers who tear arse round the place, trying to make up minutes becuase they have to reach the speed limit with no thought to the person in front! And then BEEEEEEPING on the way past??? GRRRRRRR.

bureni Tue 02-Oct-12 15:52:24

Tiredmum, they do since N.I is U.K.

lionheart Tue 02-Oct-12 15:59:20

Windy and rain, winding unfamiliar road ... don't really see the problem with someone driving at 40.

LonelyCloud Tue 02-Oct-12 16:50:41

TheLazyGirlBlog - "driving under the speed limit now will get you an instant fail on a driving test"

Surely that's only the case where the road and prevailing conditions mean it's safe to drive at the posted speed limit? i.e. if you're in a 30mph zone, with lots of junctions around, cars & vans parked on either side of the road, buses in lay-bys, pedestrians all over the place and so on, it might well be appropriate to drive at 27mph or less.

(Not disputing that you can fail for driving too slowly, mind - I failed my first driving test for 'hesitation' because I was in an unfamiliar part of town, and didn't notice the speed limit changing from 30mph to 40mph. But in that case, it would have been safe for me to be driving at 40mph.)

tiggytape Tue 02-Oct-12 16:58:09

Yes of course that's the case LonelyCloud. Even on a clear day with good visibility you wouldn't drive down a narrow road with double parked cars on both sides, or with children playing on the edge of the pavement with a football, at bang on 30MPH

If you're in your test and you creep along at 20MPH on a clear stretch of road for no good reason, of course you will fail but generally the speed limit is just the absolute maximum allowed and it is understood there are numerous situations that will force you to go slower than that or ones where it is advisable to go slower than that.

MrsBethel Tue 02-Oct-12 16:59:07

You'll always tend to get small lines of traffic in the dark because it's harder for the driver at the front to see the road - that's why you get the phenomenon of the full-beam-dickhead-Audi-driver right up your arse following your tail-lights.

But if it's a really big queue, chances are it's because you're driving at a speed that would see you fail your driving test for accumulating three minors under 'Progress - appropriate speed'. In which case, you'd be best served to pull over and let someone who knows the road light the way for timid people like you.

LonelyCloud tiggytape nope, nothing like that, he was a tad under and failed. He was very, very angry.

What makes it worse, he retested and passed, even though he'd been slightly over the speed limit on the same road. And a mate who did a test at the same place in the same month had an examiner who simply pointed out when he needed to up his speed a bit.

ShellyBoobs Tue 02-Oct-12 19:05:39

Do people think it's always unsafe to do more than 60mph when the speed limit is 60mph?

Of course not - but equally it is not always safe to drive at the speed limit, whatever that may be.

kekouan Tue 02-Oct-12 19:56:25

I actually failed my driving test for doing just under 40mph in a national speed limit zone. It was a duel carriage way and the bit I'd been on HAD been 40mph, but I hadn't seen the sign and thought it best to err on the side of caution. Got a fair bollocking for that actually confused

ShellyBoobs Tue 02-Oct-12 19:56:58

My point is that speed limits are often arbitrary.

Case in point: a road I regularly use changes from a single carriageway to a dual carriageway for a few miles and then back to a single carriageway.

Until very recently the dual carriageway was a deristricted road, so 70mph limit. Now, it's been changed to a 40mph limit. Nothing else has changed; there are no new developments, there are still no pavements on this road (and no pedestrians) and it's definitely not a built up area.

So where a few months ago it was perfectly legal to travel at 70mph on that piece of road, now you would be banned if caught doing that speed.

I'm not arguing that the limit should still be 70mph or indeed that it shouldn't have been 40mph all along. The point is that someone has decided now that 70mph would be an appallingly high speed for that piece of tarmac and doing that speed would have you hauled through the courts, whereas it was absolutely fine not so long ago. Hence I have very little respect for speed limits, per se.

That's not to say I don't obey limits, though. Indeed I quite often travel at less than 30mph in a 30 limit if there are children and/or other pedestrians around. I also think there should be far more 20mph limits in villages and towns so that the authorities can enforce a safe speed for those who can't judge it themselves.

Personal judgement and awareness of what's happening around you are much more important in being safe than posted limits but for some people limits are the only way to protect others.

In general, if you're doing 20mph below the posted limit with a queue of other vehicles trying to pass you, chances are you're unaware of what's happening and displaying poor judgement.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 02-Oct-12 20:21:20

Re the driving at constant speed.

I am a slow cautious driver. If I am driving a windy road I don't know and a queue builds up behind me I would feel intimidated and drive too fast around the corners, I also would not speed up on the straight bits, because that stops people overtaking.

sunshine401 Tue 02-Oct-12 20:31:14

Just because the max speed was national limit does not mean the poor thing had to do that speed and anyway it should be judged on weather conditions.
Sounding your horn at her is totally not on you could tell she was abit unsure of the darkness or weather thats why she was taking it slow.
Road rage causes 65% of crashes you know lets hope you never cause one which you could of done tonight sad How horrid!

WanderingWhistle Tue 02-Oct-12 20:35:07

TheLazyGirlBlog - "driving under the speed limit now will get you an instant fail on a driving test"
Not true.

My test was this year and I remember doing 25 in a 30 and worried I'd fail on it.
I passed, it was urban back streets and I went between 25 and 30 on these roads on thA part of the test.

I passed so t not a given. The things you do add up, hesitant once does not a hesitant driver make, etc

ShellyBoobs Tue 02-Oct-12 20:39:29

Road rage causes 65% of crashes you know...

Yuu've made that up.

sunshine401 Tue 02-Oct-12 20:42:57

Really? Check a copy of 2012 highway code then smile

sunshine401 Tue 02-Oct-12 20:43:52

Its under the figures for last year.

Shenanagins Tue 02-Oct-12 20:49:14

Yanbu. There was a line of traffic so she should have slowed down to let you pass. i used to stay in very rural place and twunts like this, usually in tourist season would do my nut in.

WMittens Tue 02-Oct-12 21:57:02

Rainy, dark, hilly, windy? 40 mph sounds quite appropriate to me.

Incidently,travelling 20 miles at 40 mph would take 30 mins. The same distance at 60 mph would take 20 mins. So you got all hot, bothered and aggresive over a 10 minute difference.

This. In addition, it would be unlikely you would average 60mph over that distance, so unless you would have exceeded the limit, it would have been less than 10 minutes difference.

Don't get me wrong, I hate being stuck behind these drivers, but given these conditions and the possibility they don't know the road, 40 would be acceptable.

My dad only drives over 40 on the motorway. And so would I.

Are you one of the people suckered into the "Speed Kills" mentality? Speed does not kill; speed differential kills - 40mph on a 70mph road is dangerous, and anyone incapable or unwilling to drive at an appropriate limit for the road and conditions should not have a licence (you can fail a driving test for driving too slowly).

WMittens Tue 02-Oct-12 22:04:53

Until very recently the dual carriageway was a deristricted road, so 70mph limit. Now, it's been changed to a 40mph limit. Nothing else has changed; there are no new developments, there are still no pavements on this road (and no pedestrians) and it's definitely not a built up area.

Roads degrade; it's cheaper for councils to re-sign the road than to perform proper repairs, so we get left with unsafe road surfaces and lowered speed limits.

ShellyBoobs Tue 02-Oct-12 22:16:05

The road was in a worse state when it was a 70mph, Mittens.

Without wishing to drip-feeding or add something spurious just to reinforce my point, the road was resurfaced about 2 years before the lower limit was introduced. I honestly don't think it's anything to do with the surface.

lostpigeon Wed 03-Oct-12 00:12:25


WanderingWhistle its exactly what happened. Perhaps you were lucky and had a reasonable examiner. Sadly, that would account for the nature of certain idiot drivers on the road.

He was told it "angers drivers on the road" as the reason he failed. He made no other errors. I wanted to complain but DP was so angry (and upset) that he wouldn't let me. Using that as an excuse is disgusting, frankly if someone going a slight bit under a speed limit, who is less likely to hurt someone, makes you angry, you shouldn't be on the road as you clearly have issues.

The next examiner he had was much nicer, more reasonable and realised my partner was a safe enough driver to pass him, not like the twat above that used such a crap excuse for failing him.

Pendeen Fri 05-Oct-12 14:01:09


From your post at Mon 01-Oct-12 19:21:48 it does now sound as if YWNBU at all (apart from your irritated toot at the other driver).

Avuncular Thu 03-Jan-13 11:29:36

What a wonderful thread!

schoolgovernor Thu 03-Jan-13 11:32:46

Yes, a Zombie Thread.

Avuncular Thu 03-Jan-13 16:47:39

Yes but better work out the frustration on MN than on the road << see link

Chunkymumma Thu 03-Jan-13 16:50:47

YANBU people who drive like that are total twats and often the cause of more accidents. Someone should've run the bitch off the road!

Avuncular Thu 03-Jan-13 21:46:29

Unless it was your mum or grandma?

SlowlorisIncognito Fri 04-Jan-13 03:50:14

Lazy Girl Blog That can't have been his only mistake, as he would not have got a major for it. It was either one in a long list of minors, or he was driving drastically under the posted speed limit. I think he may have made a really stupid error, and not wanted to tell you, but perhaps he just misunderstood.

Avuncular Sun 06-Jan-13 00:23:37

A trainee Driving Instructor is expected on his/her 'Part 2' [advanced driving test] to drive in a 'brisk and businesslike manner'.

That's perhaps a bit too much to expect of a learner driver on test, but that's what I aim for when presenting candidates for test.

I agree this business of what is too slow can be a bit subjective (I've seen it first hand while sitting in the back on tests), but the learner is expected to make 'reasonable progress'.

So, for instance (as I understand it: I'm not an Examiner and it's not easy to get them to commit themselves anyway), driving at 50 on a dual carriageway with a 70 limit, just because the car in front is only doing 50, could well attract at least a 'driving fault'. The learner would be expected to demonstrate a safe overtake if circumstances allow.

Driving so slowly that most other drivers (i.e. you and me probably) would be a bit put out would be likely to result in a major fault.

If there is no-one else about to be inconvenienced then I think the situation is less certain, but I advise my pupils to at least show they know what the speed limit is (e.g. in a 40, do noticeably over 30, or even comment 'I know it's a 40, but I'm driving more cautiously because ...... <insert valid reason>'. (Driving noticeably over 30 in a 30 limit is not a good idea .....)

Any DSA driving examiners out there prepared to illuminate the debate?

Mspontipine Sun 06-Jan-13 00:32:51

"it was rainy, dark, hilly and winding"

all good reasons to slow down

Not meaning to be nasty, or anything, but avuncular, by my memory this is the second zombie thread about driving you've bumped in a few days - what's the appeal?! confused

FreudiansSlipper Sun 06-Jan-13 00:56:26

I feel pissed off for your op

unless it was exceptionally windy with heavy rain why was she driving so slowly if she is not confident driving on roads you are not used to in the dark then you should not be driving

Avuncular Sun 06-Jan-13 04:52:04

Still got MN 'L' plates on - sorry to be ignorant - what does 'bumped' mean please?

trixymalixy Sun 06-Jan-13 05:16:26

One of my friends at school failed her driving test for driving to far under the speed limit.

trixymalixy Sun 06-Jan-13 05:17:09


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