PFB first day at school parents ignoring the schools request to NOT accompany their PFB into the cloak room.

(266 Posts)
D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 09:18:49

If you are one of these parents FUCKING STOP IT! FFS!

The cloakroom is built to comfortably hold 60 children, 2 teachers and 4 TAs. Not 60 children, 2 teachers, 4 TAs, 30 mummies, 20 daddies, 10 sets of grandparents, 6 toddling siblings and 3 babes in buggies.

20 fucking minutes it took me to convince my yr1 child to go into her cloakroom because she didn't dare push past all the fecking imbecile parents. Do you realise how daunting it is for a 3ft something child to have to force her way through that lot!?!

And to the mummy who shoved past dd2 to get to her whimpering child - shame on you angry You'd better hope you don't me in small, crowded space. You'll be the one going face first into the fucking wall. I can guarantee you that.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 09:21:15

Mine are older but I know exactly what you mean. angry

If the school say not to accompany them that's what they mean. And why the whole family need to go in I will never know. confused

Good morning smile

poachedeggs Tue 04-Sep-12 09:24:02

The head teacher here congratulated us all on our restraint grin

We were spoiled though because the staff from the school nursery who had been caring for our DC the previous year spent the first fortnight of term helping out with the cloakroom stuff and cuddling weeping DC and their parents so it was easy to dump and run!

MangoHedgehog Tue 04-Sep-12 09:24:32

sorry but YABU - it's not only your child who needs emotional support on 1st day of school you know

ReallyTired Tue 04-Sep-12 09:24:55

I suppose that why many schools stagger the intake of new children and have the first day of the reception and nursery children start half an hour after the rest of the school.

DD starts nursery next week and ds is ten years old.

You have my sympathy

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 09:26:16

There should be staff on the door to take the children in and not allow the parents in.

WhatYouLookingAt Tue 04-Sep-12 09:26:39

Get mad at the school for letting them, and tone down the anger a bit?

YANBU! Things like that make me so angry. Especially as DH and I really try and respect the school when they have rules/requests like that.

GWenlockMaryLacey Tue 04-Sep-12 09:27:39

Nice hmm

crashdollGOLD Tue 04-Sep-12 09:28:35

It's the school's fault for not stopping the parents.

parachutesarefab Tue 04-Sep-12 09:29:16

School should enforce the rule and not let other family members in. Once one goes in, others think it's okay too...

At our school I think you could take them into the playground on the first morning, then drop them at the gate.

CailinDana Tue 04-Sep-12 09:29:28

Yanbu. As a teacher i was still chasing parents out if the y1 cloakroom abd the bloody classroom in december. Luckily by y2 most parents have seen sense. But there will always be a few who just don't listen.

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 09:29:37

Mango, it would not be so daunting to any of the children if the rules were obeyed and the cloakroom was kept calm and quiet.

They had several visits at the end of last term where they were shown where their peg was and where their classroom was and where they met their teachers.

There is absolutely no reason for parents to be in the cloakroom. None. At all. And there is no reason for grandparents to be anywhere near the school, unless it is because the parents are absent due to work.

poachedeggs Tue 04-Sep-12 09:29:44

It's impossible to give emotional support to a child in a press of snivelling mums, second cousins and half uncles. If you've explained to the child in advance, drilled them on changing their own shoes and shown them how to hang up a coat then you can have a nice cuddle in the playground. You have to hand them over somewhere, what's the difference between the playground and the classroom doorway (other than the latter inconveniences everyone else)?

BadRoly Tue 04-Sep-12 09:30:09

I can accept it for the first day, perhaps even the first week. But after that, is it really necessary for the little darlings to have an adult hang up their coat/swap their book/put their lunch box on the trolley?

I'm a huge fan of the children lining up in the playground and being taken in by the teacher/TA.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 09:30:30

I always feel like I am the bonkers one for actually doing as the school asked. It's like the rules were just for me. sad

I think D0oin is just having a vent on here.

Callisto Tue 04-Sep-12 09:30:32

Gosh, you sound really lovely and understanding Dooin hmm.

There's always the parents that think the rules don't apply to them and their child is more important than everyone else's.

They will be the ones blocking your view at the Christmas play because they want to film the whole thing, even though they were asked not to.

exactly, the child may be brave but it is the parents who are crying.

my dd started at one school in september where we were encouraged to drop them at the door, immediatley.
changed schools, in january the parents were still going in to a miniscule cloakroom and into the classroom shock
i felt bad when i waltzed of blush

valiumredhead Tue 04-Sep-12 09:32:11

The school should've stopped it if it was such a problem.

CailinDana Tue 04-Sep-12 09:35:09

There were times when i had to say "you need to leave NOW" to parents who were actually wandering around the classroom!

THERhubarb Tue 04-Sep-12 09:35:24

Whilst your anger is understandable, it is not the fault of the parents but the school. Many schools anticipate this crowd and put measures in place like staggered school times for the first week or teachers meeting pupils at the door and allowing parents to say goodbye before the child goes in.

My ds is 8 and has separation anxiety, so I often accompany him into school where he is met by his teacher and is peeled off me. He can be very bad for the first week but will calm down eventually. I can hardly ask the teacher to desert the rest of the class just to give my boy special attention.

Year 1 children are still very small and vulnerable and it's little wonder that parents want to ensure that they are ok, that they can find their hanger, that they get into the classroom ok, etc. Your anger is misdirected at a group of parents who quite rightly care a lot about their children and the first day back at school. There will be a lot of tears and it's bloody hard being a parent and seeing your child collapse in tears and plead with you not to go.

The school is at fault here. You can't just ask parents not to accompany tiny Year 1 children into the hall, you need to cater for upset children and equally upset parents.

So yes, you are being unreasonable and unsympathetic. I'm sorry your own child finds it frightening and I don't blame her, but it's the school you should be ranting at.

Besides, I feel sorrier for those kids whose parents don't give a toss and can hardly be arsed to drag themselves out of bed to take their kids to school. At least these parents show that they DO care. Now the school just needs to take those concerns into consideration and plan around this first week, which in your case they are clearly failing to do.

LtEveDallas Tue 04-Sep-12 09:35:35

If someone had pushed my 6 year old DD face first into the wall I'd be pretty fucking angry as well angry.

Hope she is OK Doin, lets hope things calm down tomorrow. DD's school has a totally different entrance and cloakroom for the Reception kids. A much better idea. It's annoying that your DD still has to run that gauntlet now she's a 'big year 1 girl'.

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 09:36:03

I am very understanding of the fact that once I did convince her to try and force her way into her own cloakroom she was shoved face first into a wall by a PFB mummy who had to run full pelt to get to her son who stood whining in the doorway, even though he was already being attended to by a TA. There is no excuse for that behaviour.

My child is important too. Maybe not to that mum, but she is to me. I would have been understanding of her reaction were her child stood there spurting blood everywhere, but he wasn't.

It should not take me 20 minutes to drop my children at school. The rules are in place for a reason and that reason is that the cloakrooms are too small for all of those parents. It is upsetting for the children to be that hemmed in.

CwtchesAndCuddles Tue 04-Sep-12 09:36:32

At dd / ds schools parents never make it over the threshold - you say goodbye at the door at that is it!

Weeping parents are left outside and the children adapt quickly to saying bye at the door.

NameChangeGalore Tue 04-Sep-12 09:37:22

You might want to take some anger management classes.

And there is no reason for grandparents to be anywhere near the school,

I agreed until you came out with this line.

Wtf has it got to do with you how involved other family members are withthe child?

If someone said that to my face, they best do it where they've got a witness and i don't care how lovely that makes me sound.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 09:38:16

I would email the school about it. From a safety point of view it's not great, and there shouldn't be buggies in there. Plus the school have no idea who is in their building. confused

The school shouldn't have to do anything after the initial request. You shouldn't have to police grown adults who have been asked not to do something.

It doesn't bode well if they can't respect the schools wishes on the first day.

I am another one like sparkling who feels as if she is the only parent that abides by the rules sometimes.

I would be livid too if my child had been bashed out of the way, my dd1 was pushed over on a stairway once by a father so desperate to catch up with his child who was quite happily rushing off ahead.

FushiaFernica Tue 04-Sep-12 09:42:50

Urg your OP is so aggressive, putting me right off the school gate malarky that starts again for me tomorrow.

LtEveDallas Tue 04-Sep-12 09:43:55

At the very least, those families that thought it would be a good idea for mum, dad, gran and grandad all to be there for PFB's first day (which I personally think puts too much pressure on the child and makes it worse), they should leave all but one family member in the playground. If PFB has to have you there (against the school's wishes) then fine, but it only takes one person.

Doin, that sounds terrible, and actually my DD would find that a chore even now. She (and I) hates being hemmed in by too many people. Not exactly claustraphobic, but too many people and too much noise makes her agitated.

THERhubarb Tue 04-Sep-12 09:44:21

DoOin, I suggest you have a word with the school and voice your concerns with them and not us.
Everyone on Mumsnet has had a different experience of first days back and whilst I fully sympathise with your predicament and think that mother was out of order, you have no idea of the history there or the story. Venting your anger on a load of upset parents of Year 1 children on their first day back at school will do you no favours.

If they are still crowding around the classroom in a few weeks time then by all means have a rant and a go at them, but not on the first day back.

The school should have seen this coming and should be making provisions for those children, some of which are only 5 years old still.

If the school will not do anything about it then explain to the teacher that you will be arriving 10 mins late after the crowd has gone so that your dd can enter school in peace. If you talk to other disgruntled mums and all agree on that as a plan then the school might sit up and take notice.

You really should not be slagging off the Year 1 parents on here after a traumatic first day back at school. It's one of those bite your lip times and perhaps a harsh word with the Head.

rezzle Tue 04-Sep-12 09:44:26

Were you in the building OP?

I second the emailing idea - how can the school keep the students safe with so many strangers milling around.

I hope your daughter is ok, Dooin, and that she has a nice first day back. I think you were pretty restrained actually.

heather1980 Tue 04-Sep-12 09:45:05

our school have a separate reception entrance and the older one have to line up outside till the bell goes.
I used to leave the buggy outside if i had to go inside to help DD last yr when she was in reception but the school discouraged parents coming inside after the october half term and the little ones had to line up like everyone else.

I would speak to the school though if i were you

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 09:45:18

If the school say don't go in I don't go in Tough. Not a great message to the children if their parents can't abide by the school rules is it?

'Yes DS I know they say I can't come in but I am coming in anyway, they can't tell me what to do' confused

rezzle Tue 04-Sep-12 09:46:01

Just re-read the OP, ignore my post!

Aboutlastnight Tue 04-Sep-12 09:46:22

I fon't remember parents being this emotionally incontinent when I started a school in the 70's.

At our school there is a virtual scrum at the doors, one teacher had to physically put herself between a man with a buggy and her class so they could file in without being knocked over.

BlackberryIce Tue 04-Sep-12 09:46:44

Ha ha where were YOU op whilst all this was going on? Sounds like you were in the thick of it yourself to give such accurate descriptions if who was doing what!

Or were you outside, on your own? hmm

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 09:49:29

I'm taking her in through reception if it is like that tomorrow. It was dangerous.

And yes, I know the school should have better measures in place, but it shouldn't be necessary to have to explain to adults why it is not a good idea to try and squeeze so many people into a space designed for small children.

Dd2 was fine, physically. She had a tiny graze on the end of her nose and bumped her hand a bit, but nothing worse than she gets playing silly buggers at the park. Had it been inflicted by an over excited child I wouldn't have batted an eyelid. It was the fact that it was fellow parent who did that has wound me up so much.

THERhubarb Tue 04-Sep-12 09:50:53

Sparkling, as I said everyone has a story. Not every child is as good or brave as yours and it's nothing to do with parenting.

I have been on the other end of this judging malarky. I have had ds dragged off me, with him screaming my name, in front of all the other kids and parents whilst he was in Yr2 and Yr3 and I could see the judgement written all over some of their faces.

I have been told he is autistic, spoilt, that we need to practise tough love, that we must have problems at home, that he went through a traumatic episode as a baby or that we aren't giving him enough attention. I have seen the way parents have looked at me, especially when their own children become upset because of the way my ds is dragged kicking and screaming into school, disrupting the entire class.

So judge away, but just remember that these are human beings, parents and you have no idea of the stories.

I repeat, the school is at fault for not implementing some kind of system to deal with this. They are Year 1 children, not Yr6. Your stories of parents doing this in later years does not reflect on the parents of Year1 children on their first day back at school.

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 09:51:15

Blackberry I was at the back of the crowd outside the cloakroom. I get claustrophobic when I am crowded spaces. I watched what happened from the playground.

Rosebud05 Tue 04-Sep-12 09:51:57

Lovely. So glad that I've never encountered anyone as hostile as you at the school gates.

Agree that it's the school's responsibility to manage things on their premises. It's not about PFB quite often - it's actually that parents don't know what's expected of them and it's hard to make 'rules' that meet the needs of all children.

A staggered start for reception children seems eminently sensible to me.

THERhubarb Tue 04-Sep-12 09:53:28

No DoOin it should not be necessary to have to explain to the school that both parents and Year 1 children will find it tough on their first day back so some provision needs to be made for them as it will be dangerous to have so many comforting their kids in such a confined space.

I still don't see why you are directing your anger at emotional parents rather than a school who have a responsibility to ensure the safety of children entering the classroom.

Rosebud05 Tue 04-Sep-12 09:54:01

I think OP is talking about children on their first day at school, not back at school. You know, those 4 year olds who should be just expected to walk into a cloakroom of over 60 people they don't know.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 09:54:34

But these are Yr1 children so they have already done a year of this. confused

I don't think my DSs were brave. Perhaps the parents who feel the need to go in (having asked the staff's permission) should be the ones that hang back and go in a bit late?

rockandahardplace2012 Tue 04-Sep-12 09:54:40

I do understand from a safety point of view, but having grandparents there has got nothing to do with you. I think i would like to go in with my dd on her first day instead of just dumping her there with a teacher she doesnt even know angry

poachedeggs Tue 04-Sep-12 09:55:07

Totally agree re parents ignoring the school's perfectly reasonable request. I feel sorry for these poor teachers whose job is clearly hard enough without a rammy of fussing parents at the start of the day.

And while I have every sympathy with parents whose children are upset, it's got to be handled with firm, kind positivity. I have no sympathy for upset parents who let their DC see it. It's hard for us all but it's selfish to be anything other than cheerful and encouraging. Some mums at our school were visibly upsetting their own DC when the bell rang - I felt like shaking them!

Gigondas Tue 04-Sep-12 09:55:26

Sorry you would do violence to someone who was trying to get to their upset child? Ok shouldn't have Pushed your dd but I don't see how your response is proportionate.

Yes it's annoying people ignore rules but school should police it so get angry with them.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 09:55:57

Is it a shared cloakroom with Reception? DSs primary had a seperate cloakroom for Reception.

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 09:56:45

But they do know the teachers. They do several school visits in the end of the term last year.

You'd have to "dump" your child at some point. Why not in the yard, where there is enough space for everyone to say goodbye without risking squashing someone else's child? confused

Well, I reckon I can top that.

I do not normally take ds2 to school, he goes to breakfast club but I had a late start today so braved the school gate horror.

Ds2 is in year 4. We get to the playground. The bell goes. Ds2 teacher opens the cloakroom door. I say "bye ds2" other parents say "bye"

1 family consisting of mother, father, baby in pushchair, teenager and 3 other adults push past the children going into the classroom, knock over my ds2 with the pushchair and proclaim loudly that they are going in to look at where their DCs peg is,what table they are sitting at and whether they can see the board.

And let's bear in mind this is year fucking 4.
The child had been at the school since nursery. It's not their first day.

And if that pushchair touches my child again there going to be a problem.

<breathes>

This is why I don't do the school gate sad

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 09:58:03

Yes it's a shared cloakroom. Yr1 and reception.

Noqontrol Tue 04-Sep-12 09:59:35

Why didn't you wait with your child until the scrum had died down? I wouldn't send my child in by herself to deal with that anyway. Im sorry your child got bumped, but you dont sound much better the the other parents tbh.

I took my pfb into the cloakroom yesterday and today. As did the other parents. I expect I will do it for the rest of the week. Maybe more if I feel like it. Although it was crowded, everyone managed to be quite respectful and polite to each other. No aggression towards each other whatsoever. And everyone waited in line until there was enough room to get in the cloak room.

Go and talk to your child's school about it if you have a problem.

rockandahardplace2012 Tue 04-Sep-12 10:00:19

I understand they have visits but after 6 weeks they may not be so confident with them. I totally get the safety issue but the school should police it so that so many children can go in with parents take their coats of comfortably and then sit down, parents then leave. Its the first day they should allow enough time for parents to say goodbye in a safe environment they know how anxious children can be on their first day.

grinyou see doin, it's actually your fault for not joining in.

poachedeggs Tue 04-Sep-12 10:00:52

And as for blaming the school, if the school have already communicated to parents that they are not to enter the cloakroom then yes, I would be angry with the parents. The school shouldn't have to police this. Why must people be spoon fed and shepherded?

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 10:01:29

Oh right sorry D0oin. So presumably it was a mix of two years of parents.

Are you looking forward to pick up? sad

"I'm taking her in through reception if it is like that tomorrow."

So rather than speak to the school about this and see what they say, you are just going to do whatever you feel like, but other people are the problem, especially GP's who take an active role in their GC life? confused

LtEveDallas Tue 04-Sep-12 10:02:35

Rosebud, Gigondas et al. Are you seriously saying that you would not be FURIOUS if your DD was hurt, by another adult, whilst simply trying to get into school? Really? Crikey, that surprises me.

Doin has also said that the TA was already dealing with the upset child. So the mothers reaction was over the top, unecssessary and as a result Doin's child was injured.

Making school a dangerous place to go to is defeating the object of mum needing to be there somewhat huh?

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 10:02:45

I did wait. I waited until after the bell went and everyone started coming out. Then this woman ran back in because she saw her child crying.

I will have a phonecall later asking me to explain why dd2 was late. They're supposed to be in their classroom and in their seats before the bell goes. The cloakroom is open for 15 minutes.

THERhubarb Tue 04-Sep-12 10:03:00

Yr 1 kids are often put in with the whole school so it's a new classroom with a new teacher and part of the school rather than a separate part to themselves. And yes they would have been shown around before the holidays but let's face it, secondary school kids are upset at having to back to school so how much more so will a 5 year old be who has only had 1 year at school? Some of them may not have even started in Reception so this could be their very first day at school ever.

It's so heartening to read all these harsh replies you know. I wonder if a similar thread will be started tomorrow about ds and me?

Once again, these children are 5 YEARS OLD. Very very young still. It is NOT ON for the school to just expect them all to leave them at the school gates. That is not going to happen. The school have failed here and need to reassess the situation.

I note that the OP has not said that she will contact the school about this, so they are let off the hook whilst the parents - people you don't know - are being torn apart and judged. Nice.

It's parents like this that really makes others feel good about themselves.

rockandahardplace2012 Tue 04-Sep-12 10:03:34

They're just dont want the hassle, they should understand that parents probably will want to come into the cloakroom with there dcs. I know I would.

IDontDoIroning Tue 04-Sep-12 10:04:12

Op you are so NBU.
My dc have left primary now but the primary had a policy where children were left at the door /gate from the first day. The school was not unfriendly and the HT and staff had pretty much an open door policy outside of lesson time. So it's not like parents weren't welcome.

Obviously everyone wants to witness their dc first day in school but if everyone is dropping at the door having a hug and walking away ( crying - mums not dc), then everyone else does the same. The moment one parent steps over the threshold they all will want to and naturally in some cases they will have relatives or siblings and before you know it it's an unmanageable scrum. This is also dangerous to the other children and probably unsettling for the pupils.

there are some parents who would trample another child underfoot gently push another child out if the way it meant they could have a better view/ more time etc with their dc, and as you have personally witnessed its dangerous

OP you must bring this up with the school and request that they enforce this policy. I'm sure they would prefer a few miffed parents to an injured child and having to do accident reports etc no win no fee lawyers anyone ?

booomy Tue 04-Sep-12 10:05:27

You sound really lovely OP hmm
It the kids first day! It's a massive moment for parents. Maybe grandparents is excessive but when it's my DS's first day, I'm sure me and DP will both be there to send him in!

She's a year 1, it's not like she's missing some important dissertation research information by taking an extra five minutes to hang her coat up, and the fact that you've got time to come on mumsnet and rant about it, suggests you weren't in a massive rush either. If they're still there in a week then you can moan. In the mean time, remember when you were first sending your little ones off!

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 10:06:13

I just want parents to follow the rules Rhubarb. If they have been told not to go in, then that is what the school want. I really don't understand it when parents ignore the rules.

DairyNips Tue 04-Sep-12 10:08:00

To a certain extent I agree that that many people in such a small space is dangerous.

However, the people who said 'just brief them on what to do then drop them off'.. This wouldn't work with my son, he is really distractible and would probably just go in, see a friend and hang his coat on any hook he saw or chuck it on the bench then run off in! I would be stood shouting to him from the door to get his attention. He's just not that good at concentrating on the task in handhmm

So, not sure what the solution is, maybe if the parents took their kids in quickly in 3 seperate groups? My ds starts school tomorrow, I have a 2.5 year old and a 11 week old. Not sure how I can just leave them in the playground to help him and if I send him in alone he won't have a clue what to doconfused Not sure what the rules are at his school, they aren't that great on communicating these things so will find out in the morning I guess!

booomy Tue 04-Sep-12 10:08:02

They're not doing it to be deliberate dicks though are they? They just care about their children.

IceBergJam Tue 04-Sep-12 10:08:12

Why do you use the term PFB? Do you know they were all only children ? You make mothers with just a 'PFB' sound like idiots . Do you mean to ?

RabidAnchovy Tue 04-Sep-12 10:08:16

I agree with you OP it is maddening, mine are both much older now, DS1 went in to sixth form today and DS2 goes in to year 8 tomorrow but I remember the first day madness at primary school. There was one mother who was really bad and it never ended as even when her children were year 5 and 6 she was still walking them to the front of the lines (even when everyone else was already lining up) she would place her child at the front of the line (neither of her children were SN or needing any help) the rest of the parents just thought she was an idiot.
I know first days are hard on everyone but Helicopter parents make it far far worse

YANBU, some people are utter tools.

Fair enough if the extended family want to accompany but why can't they remain in the playground whilst one person takes the child into school?

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 10:08:52

So most people on here would be understanding if their 5yo was shoved into a wall by an adult for no good reason? hmm

You wouldn't be angry?

Noqontrol Tue 04-Sep-12 10:08:55

You can't blame everyone for one parent pushing your child. Yes she shouldn't have pushed your child out of the way, but not everyone is that disrespectful.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 10:09:39

It's not the end of the world if a coat ends up on the wrong peg is it?

Rosebud05 Tue 04-Sep-12 10:10:03

Of course I'd be angry if my children were hurt by an adult in these circumstances. Tbh, I wouldn't take them into a crowded situation with adults behaving like this.

Badvoc Tue 04-Sep-12 10:10:06

Perhaps the mother was anxious and upset?
I dont condone what she did to your dd but it was an accident and I am sure she wouldn't have meant to do it.
On my sons first day I was so distressed and so was he...I couldn't see for tears so perhaps cut her some slack for today?
If she does it again then gloves off?

At our school there are hatchings drawn on the floor outside the classroom doors for reception just to avoid this problem. I have now seen 3 dc into school for their first day and ds is next year. I have never gone into the classroom, I cuddle them in the playground and send them to the teacher. There have been tears to begin with but I feel a big part of reception is learning to adapt to a new environment. Have these kids never been to nursery or preschool?

Aboutlastnight Tue 04-Sep-12 10:11:43

I think first day at school is harder on the parents in some respects - worrying about where they put their coat or whether they'll eat their dinner is normal - but it's up to the teachers to deal with it not the parents!

I think that shoving parents are quite common actually having put 3dc through this stage.

LtEveDallas Tue 04-Sep-12 10:11:57

I wonder if a similar thread will be started tomorrow about ds and me

That depends Rhubarb - are you likely to be the parent that pushes another small child into a wall to get to your whimpering (note, not crying, not suffering seperation anxiety, just whimpering) child. Now you don't seem like that to me, so I doubt it.

Doin's child was hurt, was bleeding, and she's pissed off. I can completely understand that, and I can completely understand being angry at the parents breaking the rules that were complicit in causing the injury, rather than the school.

Tomorrow Doin has the opportunity to say "No, I'm not letting DD go through this again" and taking her child through the Reception. At that point, when challenged, she has the perfect opportunity to complain to the school and insist they do something about it.

But right now - Doin is pissed off and venting.

pinkbraces Tue 04-Sep-12 10:12:46

"it's actually that parents don't know what's expected of them and it's hard to make 'rules' that meet the needs of all children."

Its the above comment which sums its up really, I was always of the understanding the rules were made and the children (and parents) followed them.

How are we ever to teach our children that they are not the centre of the universe if we as parents dont follow the rules, which are there for a reason.

I find it astounding how some parents actually believe the requests and rules are not meant for them.

Dooin, you are most definitely not Unreasonable.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Tue 04-Sep-12 10:14:20

I can't believe D0oin is getting a hard time! An adult pushed past her child and actually hurt her, for no good reason! There is no excuse for that, no matter how hard you are finding your PFBs first day at school. Her child is of equal importance to everyone else's child.

There is no need for more than one adult to go any further than the playground, and families that do invite grandparents and bring buggies etc are incredibly selfish. They give no thought to all the other children who presumably they want their child to make friends with, they make it all about themselves and their wants, not their child's needs. Children do not need to be accompanied by any more than one parent.

This is one reason why small schools and staggered starts are wonderful.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 10:14:54

Exactly pink. The parents did know what was expected-they were told not to go in.

Gumby Tue 04-Sep-12 10:15:20

I agree with op

I'm sick to death of parents standing in the doorway when my 5 year old is trying to get through
It's just rude

Rosebud05 Tue 04-Sep-12 10:15:32

Yes, I would be angry if my 5 year old was hurt by an adult but I wouldn't threaten violence, and I might even try to have a little bit of empathy for new reception starters.

Does that clarify my position?

Meglet Tue 04-Sep-12 10:16:11

I asked the teacher before I took Y1 DS into the cloakroom as I expected Y1 parents to be banned this year. But as we all had so may PE kits, football kits, wellies, reading bags and summer projects they let us all go through. I tried to get DS to carry it all on his own but his little arms weren't big enough.

Tomorrow he will get dropped at the door but the reception parents will still be able to go in with their DC's which makes it more civilised.

TBH the school could have staggered it a bit and let maybe just 5 parents in at a time.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 10:16:41

I don't think D0in had any intention of carrying out said violence. Hence a thread on MN to vent.

Have to admit i was a bit shock dropping dd off to Year 2 today today to find about 8 sets of grandparents as well as the usual (very nice on the whole..) parents, most of whom no-nonsensely just dropped and went. They've been at the school three years!!

Cromwell44 Tue 04-Sep-12 10:17:18

YANBU it's school not WW1 battlefields. The way some parents behave you'd think they were sending their child off to war! No wonder children get clingy if such a huge fuss us made, it's too much pressure on the child. It's very annoying for families whose approach is to keep things calm and low key to have to deal with the starting school hysterics. We all care about our chikdren we just decide not to porject our concerns onto our children and be the adult. It would be helpful if parents could remember to show a bit of responsibilty in these situations. Sorry to the poster who thinks schools should plan for upset parents! Personally, I'd rather they were focusing on the children.

WhatYouLookingAt Tue 04-Sep-12 10:17:20

Why can't they line up outside and be led in by the teacher, like a normal school?

Gilberte Tue 04-Sep-12 10:18:31

Actually I went in with my PFB today and I couldn't believe the noise. I thought my DD would be upset and clingy but she was fine ( I think like me she was totally dumbstruck). The noise, screaming, wailing and shouting was overwhelming. How the teachers can stand it I don't know. I assume it must calm down pretty quickly or it must be hell to work there.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Tue 04-Sep-12 10:18:32

Yanbu.

My first dc started school 15 years ago, my 4th starts on Monday.

You got a few parents 15 years ago who tried to make it all about their child them
Now you get half a class full pushing and standing around, fussing and getting in the way.

What about the children who genuinely need that extra support? They don't stand a chance of getting it because the teacher and TAs are too busy dealing with these parents who don't seem to have grown up themselves.

I hate the school gates and the class door. People behave like arses at the very time they should be behaving like adults

tiggytape Tue 04-Sep-12 10:18:45

Some parents really do not think.
They'd happily agree that all the 29 other parents should be excluded from the cloakroom in order not to create a daunting environment in there for their child.

But equally they think their child is more anxious, more shy, more nervous, more sensitive than all the others so deserves the special treatment of having Mummy and Daddy and Granny and baby sister in her buggy all going into the classroom!

My friend (a Year 1 teacher) has had to physically block the classroom doorway in the past to keep parents out whilst they try to struggle passed her. Almost a full on tussle to keep them away! And this was in December not September. It is so disruptive to have so many adults in there and of no use in settling a child at all because at some point the parents must leave so it is best to do goodbyes where you won't get a face full of someone else's elbow.

I agree though it is the school that needs to be strict about this even if it means having the Head on hanmd to literally shepherd people out by force!

THERhubarb Tue 04-Sep-12 10:18:50

Yes D0oin we have all expressed sympathy with you and I get the feeling that people are now ignoring the reasonable posts and just going off on a vent. I haven't read one single post that has said that you had no right to be angry about what happened to your dd.

At the risk of merely repeating my previous posts, what we are saying (and I say "we" but actually a LOT of posts are supporting the OPs position) is that the school should take responsibility for what happened this morning.

I'm not sure you can apportion entire blame to emotional parents, parents who you don't know of children you don't know who may have stories and history that you don't know.

Myself and a few other posters have explained why some children, even older than Year 1 will need accompanying to the classroom, yet these posts have been largely ignored by the braying mob who have deemed ALL parents as irresponsible and highly strung. How on earth do you think that makes us feel when we have calmly and reasonably shared our own experiences with you and have gone into full explanations?

Sparkling asks me why parents can't just follow the rules. I say she hasn't bothered to read my posts because I've explained why some can't.

I think a lot of posters are being spectacularly unsympathetic and are apportioning blame only onto the parents. The OP has not once said a word about it being the fault of the school, not even partly. Yet it would be reasonable to assume that the school does have some part to play in this scenario, after all they must have witnessed this a hundred times and yet they still have nothing in place to prevent this from happening?

I get the feeling that to blame the school would be too reasonable. It's much more fun to have a go at the parents of these very young children instead and recount stories of how OUR own children are little angels and how WE are so much better than those plebs sobbing at the school gates.

Oh yes, lets have a few more stories about how wonderful WE all are whilst looking down our noses at THEM.

I hate these fucking threads.

IDontDoIroning Tue 04-Sep-12 10:19:04

You see all the posters above saying " well I'm doing it"" and I'm going to do it" and so on,
Surely it's better for settling in to have a process from day one. Drop at the door and leave, and that's how it's going to be. 4 year olds are remarkably resilient and surely it's best to start as you mean to go on rather than make them think that mummy will be going in with them each day and then getting upset when suddenly she can't.

diddl Tue 04-Sep-12 10:19:25

Is this for children whose first day it is?

They should do what we do here.

It´s a big thing, starting school & is celebrated here (Germany)

There´s a church service first for those who want, then onto the school & there´s entertainment by the children who started last year.

Then the children are called by their class teachers & go off to their classroom for an hour or so.

Parents & siblings "mingle", chat, drink tea/coffee, & eat cake/snacks.

The next day children are left at the school door by any accompanying parents.

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 10:21:51

I wish they would do that WhatYouLookingAt, they used to but the Head is very hot on lateness and this keeping the cloakrooms open for 15 minutes and expecting children to be seated and ready to learn at 9am exactly is supposed to help that confused

Why they can't just let all of the children in at 8:50am like they used to I have no idea confused. It must work at reducing lateness because they've been doing it since dd1 started there four years ago. The day she started was the day the new rules came in on a trail basis at first.

chandellina Tue 04-Sep-12 10:22:25

My son starts reception tomorrow and I don't even know where the cloakroom is. He's only ever seen the classroom once and there is no staggering, and also no instructions were sent home on any first day or cloakroom protocol. Should be fun!

blisterpack Tue 04-Sep-12 10:22:46

It is the school who is at fault. There are bound to be parents who want to go in with their small children on the first day.

DD2 started Year 1 today and the teacher handled it admirably. Everyone was standing outside with the children and she chatted to some of them while wandering through the crowd. But when it was time to go in she went to the front and said "That's it, time to say goodbye to the mummies and daddies. Please stand back so that the children can make their way inside".

And that was it.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 10:22:54

If you have a special reason for needing to go in you should ask the school for permission Rhubarb. I have read your posts, and I am aware there are exceptions as with anything.

therhubarb you are assuming that none of the 'braying mob' have dc with special needs aren't you?

That's interesting in itself and you don't seem to be able to see beyond your child's needs.

My dd2 has ASD, she finds crowds frightening and upsetting . No special allowances are made for her at school, but they should be because your child is anxious?

Gumby Tue 04-Sep-12 10:24:33

Our kids don't line up in the playground
We have to drop them at the classroom door

I agree though that a member of staff should be standing there saying 'I'll take it from here' and passing child & bags to a ta to lead them to the cloakroom

It's the endless questions too - we've been told the morning rush is not the time to vent concerns that x doesn't drink his water but parents still monopolise the teacher, who then can't welcome the children as they come in

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 10:25:22

Rhubarb, the school has a system in place for children who genuinely need extra support.

They are met at reception the SENCO and taken directly to their classrooms. The SENCO then collects their coats and bags and hangs them on the correct pegs.

These were all NT children with no extra needs having been identified yet.

It's actually the top mainstream school in our town for children with extra needs.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Tue 04-Sep-12 10:25:53

Rhubarb, you are missing the point. The school has taken responsibility by asking parents not to crowd into the cloakroom. It is then the parents responsibility to follow the rule. If they don't, then it's the parents fault that a problem occurs.

These are teachers that are expected to deal with this, not riot police. They shouldn't have to do any more than ask the parents to follow a rule.

tiggytape Tue 04-Sep-12 10:25:59

And in addition, now a child has actually been hurt in the crush, I'd tell the school on the phone this morning so they can put a note in bookbags tonight expressly telling parents they they must not come in tomorrow at all. They can say if any of the parents have grave concerns about this, they can talk to the teacher and maybe drop off 15 minutes later than everyone else (that should sort out the drama queens from the genuine concerns). It just isn't safe or acceptable to let that happen again.

It is worrying for parents but you can't have a situation where 4 year olds are virtually trampled underfoot or pushed into walls just to reassure over anxious parents whose children would otherwise be fine (there are genuine cases of additional needs but these are hardly catered for if you allow upto 60 additional adults in every day!)

Your poor DD, that sounds awful. I am always petrified walking in amongst small children because of how unsteady I am on my feet that I might hurt one of them, I can't believe how unaware of her surroundings the other parent was.

My mum is taking time off to come to my DD's first day at school though, I didn't realise this was frowned upon.

Our times are staggered and the majority of the children have their classrooms in a sectioned off area shared by the nursery, so parents here are expected to go in I think. I am going to call up and find out today so I can sort it in my head.

blisterpack Tue 04-Sep-12 10:27:09

Even if the school allows children to be accompanied inside I think it's bloody stupid for the whole extended family to tramp in. Fine if every living relative wants to come, but please, make a fuss, take photos and do all that nonsense in the playground but just one parent go into the class for settling in for heaven's sake.

Hang on a minute, I certainly didn't say I wasn't upset, all 3 times I sobbed all the way home from school. I just held it together (mostly) until I was out of sight of the dc so they weren't upset.

I really object to posters who suggest that because some parents wrren't sobbing over their dc that they dont care hmm

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 10:28:24

It isn't frowned upon Rabbits. Grandparents, Aunties, Uncles etc, they just need to stay outside in the playground.

doublechocchip Tue 04-Sep-12 10:29:14

yanbu op it does my head in! In our school they state the children should line up independently taking their bags with them but no still we have droves of parents who push through the lines of children with their big pushchairs to drape school bags over their kids. Drives me mad. Dd was so excited to start year 1 this morning, but I could see her little face getting more and more worried as she was pushed and pulled about by parents physically steering their children around, why? They line up right in front of us with their teachers, you can see their every move!

blisterpack Tue 04-Sep-12 10:29:32

Ooh, looks like my post is in response to Rabbits mentioning her mother. It is not RabbitsMakeBrownEggs!

THERhubarb Tue 04-Sep-12 10:29:59

Special allowances SHOULD be made which is EXACTLY why I am saying that the school is at fault and NOT the parents.

The OP says that the children come in at 8.45 and have to be seated in class at 9am. Does that sould reasonable to you?

So the Year 1s share a cloakroom with Reception - again, is this a good idea?
Therefore many of the parents who were there, were parents of Reception children?

FYI our school has no cloakroom, the children go straight through a door into the classroom and through there into the cloakroom. I have liaised with the school as to the best way to deal with ds and so far they say to just lead him through with the other children. I have gone in early to avoid upsetting the other kids but the school discouraged this and if I go in late then they are all sat there whilst he is dragged off me.

If the school do not provide adequate facilities or have enough room to cope then they need to assess that properly and come up with a sensible solution and it doesn't sound as though the OPs school is being particularly sensible. But then if parents don't complain and merely come on here to vent at parents then why should they change?

I wonder if the OP will tell the school about what happened this morning?

Gumby Tue 04-Sep-12 10:30:01

I don't understand taking grandparents
It just hypes up the whole thing
Take photos at home & leave the children be on their first day

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 10:30:09

I think the best thing is to drop them at the door and run on the first day in Reception so you can go home and be sad. sad

THERhubarb Tue 04-Sep-12 10:31:53

I'm just going to leave you all to it.

Vent away. I'm obviously on the wrong thread.

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 10:32:32

My mum would love to come but I won't let her because she would be one of the ones crying and sobbing. She'd also be first into the cloakroom to see her PFGC's coat peg. Luckily she works FT and was strongly discouraged from taking the day off when her grandchildren started school.

I am feeling much calmer now. Calm enough to calmly explain why dd2 was late, when the school phone and calm enough to ask what they intend to do to make sure it does not happen again tomorrow, so I can switch my phone back on now, knowing I am in the right frame of mind to not swear at the school receptionist when she phones grin

Gumby Tue 04-Sep-12 10:32:34

Agree sparkling
Not fair on the kids to see wailing parents

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Tue 04-Sep-12 10:34:01

Schools often just have to make the best of it when it comes to space inside their buildings. More often that not there simply isn't enough space, and there is only so much that can be done about that.

A sensible solution includes asking parents to not crowd the cloakroom, but it is up to parents to abide by that. If a few parents ignore the rule, then it encourages others to, because they won't want their child to be the only one that hasn't got a parent going in with them.

Schnarkle Tue 04-Sep-12 10:37:13

Why do people on these types of threads deliberately misunderstand the information given.

The school asked parents not to enter the cloakroom.
Parents decided to ignore this and brought the entire family and their dogs to wave pfb off.
OP is annoyed her child got caught up in the melee.

It's a pain in the ass OP, the rules it seems are for everyone else. And when you do follow the rules as asked, you look like the uncaring one just shoving the child in on their own. A royal pita.

RuleBritannia Tue 04-Sep-12 10:37:43

There's more room in the playground. Why can't drop-off be in the playground, all the children line up in twos and, when the time comes, they are led in by a teacher or TA?

This used to happen and was so much easier than the portrayal I've read her of what happens now. Oh dear! Will it be raining? Poor little mites. Get them used to a bit of hard life for a change. They'll learn to cope.

By saying that, I do not mean they should accept being hurt in the cloakroom. The parents and others should not be there if they were asked not to be. As another poster suggested, someone at the door could take in the child, pass it backwards to someone else and say, "Have a Nice Day!" to the parent and allow the child to start a new life.

tiggytape Tue 04-Sep-12 10:39:56

I didn't let MIL come either. I told her it was forbidden in the school rules. She'd have wept and wailed with the best of them and I was trying to be as nonchalant about the whole thing. I hugged DS at the door and sent him in through the scramble of other parents and then went to the nearest coffee shop with some other mums and sobbed into my coffee and cake for two hours until it was time to pick him up again

DS starts secondary school tomorrow. It is not yet 11am and MIL has already phoned in floods of tears 3 times today to ask about arrangements for tomorrow. The news I was sending him on his own met with a particularly long burst of sobbing! She wants to know if she can come round to see him off and see his new uniform. Again she has been told no. I am worried of course I am but poor DS is nervous enough without his Grandma crying as if she'll never lay eyes on him again!

THERhubarb Tue 04-Sep-12 10:40:24

Actually there are plenty of options:

Staggering school times for the first week.
Being met by teacher outside the cloakroom and having children led in by TAs.
Allowing children and parents to enter in small groups, letting parents see the peg and the classroom before being ushered out by TA for the next group.
Having an assembly line outside the classroom so that goodbyes are said before children go in.

Not having enough space is not a good enough excuse.

Safire Tue 04-Sep-12 10:47:15

If some parents decide that they "can't" follow the rules then surely it is their responsibility to contact the school and get a dispensation or whatever? I'm quite shock at any parent justifying their disregard of the school's rules on the basis that they can't obey them!

iggi777 Tue 04-Sep-12 10:47:54

TheRhubarb my ds's school did all that! Staggered start for first three days, allowed to go in to find peg with them on day one, and then lines in playground with teachers while we wave goodbye from a slight distance. We've also been invited in for lunch with them one day prior to them starting full days.

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 10:48:19

Another option would be to send parents several letters asking them not to enter the cloakroom and outlining the reasons why i.e the cloakroom is too small, it is unsafe etc.

They could also have an open night where parents are invited in small groups to visit the school with their child and see the cloakrooms, meet the teachers and help their child make their coat peg sign. They could if they really wanted to give the contact details of the SENCO and the school liaison officer and ask parents who have genuine concerns regarding their child's first day to contact them to discuss this. They could then expect grown adults to read and process this information and follow the rules accordingly.

Oh hang on, that's what they already do.

But yes I agree the school is also at fault for not enforcing their own rules, but really what chance have 2 teachers and 4 TAs against that many parents and children and grandparents? It's a school, not a nightclub, they shouldn't have to hire bouncers to guard the doors.

WelshMaenad Tue 04-Sep-12 10:50:28

Totally, totally NBU. What a bunch of plonkers.

It was DD's first day back today, into yr 2. Like last year, I took her into the yard, gave her a kiss, handed her to the teacher and LSA scooping all their kids together, and left. Terrific.

Rosebud05 Tue 04-Sep-12 10:51:37

If the lack of space is the reason for not letting parents in the cloakroom then, yes, the school should be ensuring that their requests are adhered to.

Teachers and TAs standing at the cloakroom doors and taking children through without parents would be the obvious solution.

LtEveDallas Tue 04-Sep-12 10:51:52

DD's school was quite good at this.

Reception is a completely different entrance, and difference gated playground.

Parents are encouraged into the playground, but not the classroom. Children line up with mum and dad, but are handed over to teacher/TA at the door. If children are visibly distressed (not actually that many, thankfully) then teacher/TA allows one parent in to hang up coat, bag, change shoes etc, but it's one at a time.

I'm not sure what they'd do if the child didn't calm down though. I've never seen it, but would assume it would be a nightmare with the other kids wanting to get in. I suppose first day madness helps pinpoint kids who may have issues later on.

IIRC (DD is Year3 this year) the Reception kids started a day later than the rest of the school. Have a feeling DD started on a Thursday?

wanttomakeadifference Tue 04-Sep-12 10:52:52

I totally understand the OP- my experience last year was similar. The chaos created by so many parents in the tiny cloakroom and classroom entrance made the school drop off tense, stressful and a bit of a bunfight.

Many parents were considerate and tried to minimise the chaos but a few seemed completely unaware of anyone but their own DC.

It was really unsettling for the children, even those like mine who were luckily feeling quite confident were pretty freaked out by the chaos.

The situation was vastly improved after the first week when a TA stood at the door and welcomed the children in without their parents. The children who were struggling to seperate from their parent didn't seem to find saying goodbye at the door any more stressful than in the classroom....

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Tue 04-Sep-12 10:53:49

Staggering start times doesn't work well ime. You just get one group of kids settled and then you have to deal with another lot that are hyped up and distract the ones already there. Much better to have them all come in in a controlled way at the same time.

Why do parents need to see their child's peg? confused

They might want to, but that doesn't mean they need to, not on day one. They wll have seen the cloakroom when they visited.

The small group thing would have problems as well, the TA needs to be available to help children that do need extra support, they shouldn't have to be parent crowd control. It's also disruptive for the children that have gone in first. They will end up bored and fidgety by the time the last group has gone in, and it is very hard for a teacher to engage them when there are new propel to see every two minutes. If they go straight in to play, then the TA will be needed in the classroom not the cloakroom as small children don't always just walk in to a bust classroom and find something they want to play with.

An assembly line would work, but no more so than having a time slot where children can come in at their own pace. Schools shouldn't have to legislate for parents that can't control themselves or their emotions.

The trouble is, you only have to have one or two Performance Parents barging their way in to emote in front of everyone and, and before you know it, everyone else feels they look uncaring if they don't, until, Ta Da, you have a cloakroom full of grizzling parents all trying to out out-wobbly-lip each other.

RevDebeezWoodall Tue 04-Sep-12 10:54:54

I'm with Sparkling, Outraged and Schnarkle. The rules were there for everyone's safety. OP has noted there are special measures in place for those with extra needs.

I've also felt like the only parent that followed the rules. Felt like I dumped DS and ran on his first day. Tried not to make a big deal, "In you go, Mrs X will be waiting for you in the classroom, have fun and I'll see you at 3!".

The school has met it's responsibilities, they asked parents not to come in. I don't see how it is unreasonable to expect parents to follow a polite request. Making a big song and dance about the first day can't help with the anxiety of the children.

Why not have the extended family come to pick up instead? Coming out to see everyone in the playground waiting to hear all about your first day?

wanttomakeadifference Tue 04-Sep-12 11:02:23

At the first PTA meeting I went to our HT claimed that when making rules, she has to consider parents who think "they and their DC are the only people in the world who matter".

I was a bit hmm at this, and thought it sounded harsh. However, as the year went on I quickly realised that unfortunately people like this exist. They are in the minority but cause major issues.

It's also really tricky when you insist to DC that they follow school rules, then they see others blatantly ignoring the same rules. What to say when DC asks why "xyz doesn't have to have a healthy snack, water in drinks bottle, not take toys to school, be in time, go into classroom unaccompanied".

I realise some cases are for good reasons, where a child is excepted for a particular reason- but there are a handful to whom none of the rules seem to apply.

I guess this is a matter of scale. In DC's school nursery - Y3 arrive between 8:15 and 8:30 (I think registration is actually at 8:45). One class (<20 DC) per year, and entrances/cloakrooms shared between 2 classes at most. I have never seen any hard and fast rules on whether parents can go in or not, but common sense is largely exercised and there are no major crushes. I will definitely be going in with DD (Y1) as she will have too much stuff (wellies, overtrousers, PE kit) to carry alone. Y4 and above get dumped at the door (I don't even park, normally - DS just hops out) - but even then, on day 1, they have so much clobber to carry that it means multiple trips for them or a parent going as far as the classroom.

OP - YANBU, and I hope the school does call so that you get a chance to explain what happened.

WerthersUnOriginal Tue 04-Sep-12 11:04:49

'all trying to out out-wobbly-lip each other.' grin Lol

Gumby Tue 04-Sep-12 11:04:54

I wouldn't be taking wellies on first day unless it's torrential rain

WerthersUnOriginal Tue 04-Sep-12 11:06:04

Will they be doing the flappy hand face fanning thingy too??

CrunchyFrog Tue 04-Sep-12 11:07:55

Totally NBU.

A situation like that would have prevented DS1 from going in, he has ASD but manages in mainstream without support at the moment. The cloakroom is a huge issue for him anyway. I've never gone in, as going in on the first day would have set the "rules" if you know what I mean, so he copes alone.

I genuinely don't understand why starting school is such a big deal. Why the sobbing from parents efc. Just fail to get it, school is a good thing. Anecdotally, the sobbiest parents were those who also gave me the "rod for your own back/ spoiled/ dependent" schtick about EBF sling-carried DS2. Just saying.

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 11:08:33

The school liaison officer rang about dd2 being late, rather than the receptionist who normally phones. Dd2 has already told them that she was hurt on her way in and that is why she was late. She made sure the whole class knew exactly what happened -probably in the hope that someone would give her a biscuit-

Apparently the school have a policy of being 'understanding' towards the parents of new starters but another newsletter will be sent out again tonight asking that parents do not come into the cloak rooms. After day 3 all parents will be expected to drop off outside the cloakroom and leave. They will not be allowed into the school.

Dd2 can go in via reception with the SENCO if it is too much for her tomorrow or she can go in through the yr2/3/4 cloakroom with dd1 and hang her coat on dd1's peg and a TA will go and get it and put back into the right cloakroom after the chaos has subsided. It is up to dd2 what she feels more comfortable with.

She was not given a late mark this morning.

threesocksmorgan Tue 04-Sep-12 11:09:05

yanbu and I understand your anger as it sounds like your dd's first morning was marred by this, hope it got better for her

WerthersUnOriginal Tue 04-Sep-12 11:11:53

Public sobbing is tres naff for such occasions. Go home, stiff upper lip, stiff gin then revel in 6 hours of lovely peace wink

Otoh sobbing openly when they break up for 6 weeks: totally forgivable.(Joke)

Quip Tue 04-Sep-12 11:13:09

yanbu. Kids at our school line up at 8.45 and take themselves in, and deal with their own coats and bags, with teachers and TAs to help if necessary. If 4yo in our county can do it, I don't know why they have to have their Mum's in to help them elsewhere. On the first day, the parents stay in the playground at the end where the reception line up, but once the bell goes, the teacher and the TA get the kids to line up and go in. I'm glad I don't have to wade through cloakroom madness of a morning, or even go into the classroom with mine. After the first week or so, parents tend to drop the kids in the playground and not hang around for the bell to go unless they want to gossip with friends, even at reception age.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Tue 04-Sep-12 11:14:11

The schools reaction sonds good to me D0oin. Are you happy with it? Or at least as happy as you can be given what already happened.

Schnarkle Tue 04-Sep-12 11:14:49

all trying to out out-wobbly-lip each other

That's exactly it, out performing each other. They can then pat themselves on the back for being such good parents as they obviously care far more for their pfb than the rest of us do for our own.

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 11:19:46

Well I am happy with it for dd2's sake but I did mention that I was a bit concerned that they are allowing it happen again tomorrow even after a child was hurt, albeit not seriously. Fine for dd2, but it's not going to help all the other yr1s is it?

Oooh wait til the first day of secondary.
That's what you call over competitive wobbly lip parents

I did not take my dd on her first day, she wanted to go with her friends. But apparently there were a good number of parents going into the hall with their DCs, waiting next to them crying and looking through their bags, wanting to wait until they got their form classes to make sure they were with their friends.

The deputy head had to stand by the hall door in the end reminding parents that we had all been instructed by letter, text and email that if we bought our DCs to school, we were to drop them outside and not to accompany them to the hall.

WerthersUnOriginal Tue 04-Sep-12 11:31:27

Parents go in on the first day of secondaryshock. Dd was having none of that malarky. She went off on her own while I wobbly lipped at home on my own. All her friends did the same as far as I can recall.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Tue 04-Sep-12 11:36:35

Yes, I suppose you're right, it won't help any of the others. Maybe it will e calmer tomorrow anyway as parents often take the first day off work but then leave them to it, and maybe they will have a staff member more on the lookout.

shock at parents going in for first day of secondary! My ds would have been mortified if I'd have tried to do that! They have older ones there to make sure the year 7's know where to go.

PedanticPanda Tue 04-Sep-12 11:40:11

On the big first day our school took parents and children in small groups at a time so there wasn't a huge flock of parents in the cloakroom at once.

manicbmc Tue 04-Sep-12 11:43:12

We stagger intake in reception over the first half term so that children get the chance to settle in smaller groups first.

Whyriskit Tue 04-Sep-12 11:45:19

In scotland so been back for 2 weeks now. DS1 in P1 - he's 4.
They had an induction day in June and while they were meeting their teacher etc, the parents were told: staggered starts for first 3 days, parents allowed to take in on day one (but we all had to line up), after that they had to line up and be called in by teacher class by class. It seems to have worked really well, both parents and teachers know what is expected.
This is a big school too, 3 P1 classes of 25.

AlwaysHoldingOnToStars Tue 04-Sep-12 11:50:45

Parents going to secondary first day! shock ds1 would not have been amused. Luckily for him I had others to take to school do he had to go on his own.

Ds5 is going into year 1. For the first 2 weeks parents are allowed into the classroom for 20 minutes in the morning to settle them in!! 20 minutes for 2 weeks! I'm doing it in the first day and that is it as I have to get ds2 to his school (he starts a day later)

Do they not think parents have anything else to do, like work? I don't, but I know some who do. I also know ds5 is a drama queen so there will probably be scenes when I have to leave and other parents are staying. Ds3 & 4 were dropped off in the cloakroom when they started year 1 and they coped fine (and they hadn't even done reception as I delayed starting them)

Tanith Tue 04-Sep-12 11:51:11

I don't remember this fuss when I started school in the 70s. We lined up in the playground and went in with everyone else.
I remember 2 children, just 2, being upset in two years, and the teacher comforted them while the rest of us stared and wondered what on earth was the matter.

Of course, the big difference is that we were 5. There was no YR in those days, so most children were ready for school. YR aged children were still at nursery, where a bit more coddling was acceptable.

BadEducation Tue 04-Sep-12 11:52:21

I think on the first day of term, for reception children, most schools are mindful of the fact that parents will want to go in with their child, and vice versa. They will clamp down on it by half term, and it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

As has been suggested, it would be better if the school had staggered the new starters over several days to avoid this kind of thing.

<chortle> at parents going in on the first day of secondary school.

Mine were dumped off up the road and told to 'follow the signs'. They were lucky they got a lift.

They would have died of shame if I'd actually got out of the car.

elizaregina Tue 04-Sep-12 11:54:45

totally agree on the judging and not knowing back stories, slightly different but my disabled dad who we see about twice a year for a few weeks came to school with car and DISABLED badges to pick up DD1 with the idea he would go into get her....as a nice surpise....seeing as she is his ONLY GRANDCHILD, he lives 300 miles away ALONE, and is 75 years old.

the problem is until you get into the car park you dont know if there will be a space or not., on this occasion there wasnt - and two grand parents with two children who had to wait a milli second for my dad to drive past - starting moaning - " ooh they shouldnt be in here with a car - what are they doing, its agaisnt the RULES"

THEY WENT ON AND ON AND ON.

So I got out the car and said " do you mind he has a disabled badge he is allowed in actually" they snapped back...

" YES BUT YOU DONT NEED ONE!"

and walked off.

Do you know I see them every Fucking day collecting thier two grandchildren - isnt that nice for them.

After that I couldnt be bothered to face them again so my dad has never gone in to pick up DD1 from nursery now, as its too far for him to walk from other areas where you can park outside the shcool gates!

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 11:54:56

Bet you can't wait for the Nativity play-you can be the only one not filming it. angry

OnlyNiceSwearing Tue 04-Sep-12 11:54:57

Is it really that bad? In our fairly large school we were all allowed to accompany our first years in to the classroom each morning for the entire first year if we wanted to. Buggies has to be left outside and people were generally polite to one another whilst going into the class. Where on earth do you live??

sparkling that is one of my pet hates

"please do not film the play or take pictures"

Cue 25 parents getting their cameras out.

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 04-Sep-12 11:59:52

I don't know if they have staggered YR starting. I have no reception aged children this year. I know when dd2 first started they had a week where half of the class went on a morning and the other half on the afternoon. Dd2 was in the afternoon group, so I didn't see any of this chaos of people trying to get their Y1 children in with the YR children. There were only 15 or so YR children and the accompanying extended family (which I thought was slightly odd, but each to their own I guess), but it was calmer as there was less people, so more space.

I have no idea if the morning starters had to go through what we did this morning.

Dd1 was when she started more confident and more agile than dd2 is now. She was in the morning group but just ducked under people/through their legs like a tiny, wee whippet, without any fuss. She didn't want me to come in with her.

elizaregina Tue 04-Sep-12 12:00:12

YABU by the way I agree that its the schools mismanagement not the parents fault.

Our reception class has a seperate enterance to the rest of the year groups. Reception class has an open door policy wherby all parents are allowed to go in and out pretty freely to settle their DC's in on any morning. I have never seen any sort of ruck and the DC's all seem pretty settled. All other year groups file in through one entrance in turn, no parents allowed. All seems to work fine.

WelshMaenad Tue 04-Sep-12 12:13:31

We have special dispensation to drive up to school (on a hill) and park near the doors, because DD is disabled (she has blue badge). We even have the Holy Grail, which is the little coded blipper that opens the automatic gates. Despite the fact that on a bad morning she can barely walk at all, let alone up a hill, we've been subjected to some pretty disgusting stage whispers about me being LAZY and thinking I am SPECIAL.

So I feel your pain Laura!

sugarice Tue 04-Sep-12 12:25:01

Tantrums Parents accompanying their kids into Secondary School shock. All 3 of mine would have pulled their own teeth out with pliers rather than me set foot within a foot of the perimeter of the school on their first day. It's very uncool and a potential source for teasing if a Parent is seen anywhere close other than driving the car for drop offs. I have never heard of that happening before.

My DC school solved this problem last year by making ALL classes line up by their teacher in the playground so no parents get into the school.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 12:28:44

Oh yes Tantrums, that used to make me so angry. Plus if the doors don't open until 6pm how come the first two rows are always full of the same parents. confused

We had instructions not to drive up the very narrow lane morning or afternoon and that was ignored. Or park in the teacher's car park-ditto.

It was in the news letter every single week. angry

Now DS1 get the bus to secondary school and DS2 bikes to Middle School. I don't miss the nonsense of First school one bit.

Oh but they did. And collected them from inside the school afterwards.
And in my sons year, year 9, they still stand by the gates to collect them.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 12:33:27

Do you think I should get on the bus with DS1 tomorrow Tantrums? Just to be sure? He's 13 and may not be able to find his locker. <stresses>

Yes, definitley sparkling. He might get lost

When I give my DCs a lift to school, I am not allowed to drive down the road the school is on, in case someone sees them.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 12:44:43

It's 12 miles away so I may as well hover around til hometime Tantrums. Check he eats his lunch and catches the right coach home. grin

blisterpack Tue 04-Sep-12 12:45:41

Why is it so ridiculous if parents accompany their children on the first day of secondary school? Not to go and find the child's peg or wipe their tears off obviously grin, but lots of children go into selective schooling where they are the only child from their primary and they know no one at the school. Surely you'd take your child and see them off then?

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Tue 04-Sep-12 12:47:33

No.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 12:47:57

On DS's first day at Secondary I accompanied him in the car to the school then kicked him out. blush

He's at a new one now on the coach.

into the school blister
Really?

My DCs would have refused to go in with me!

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 04-Sep-12 12:49:52

YANBU OP. YANBU at all other than with the PFB bit. IME this kind of thing is not restricted to the parents of PFBs.

blisterpack Tue 04-Sep-12 12:52:33

I suppose so Tantrums. Not into the class but wouldn't you get out of the car and see him/her off if it's their first day and they were the only one from their primary?

(Mine are still at primary)

THERhubarb Tue 04-Sep-12 12:54:13

Well don't we have some perfect parents on here today?

I would hate to think that when ds finally goes in tomorrow and I can sob without him seeing me that other parents would think I was in some kind of wobbly lip competition.

Oh to have the luxury of being able to observe other parents and judge their behaviour!

OP, I'm glad the school phoned and you were able to voice your concerns. I do think that a newsletter is a pathetic way of trying to diffuse the situation and really that is the LEAST they can do. If space is such an issue and children are getting hurt then they should come up with another solution. As a parent I would be angry at the disruption yes, but I would insist that the school actively DO something about it rather than just write a note in the school newsletter. That seems to be their answer for every parent complaint, to write about it in a newsletter that hardly anyone reads instead of actually tackling the issue themselves.

"I have been on the other end of this judging malarky. I have had ds dragged off me, with him screaming my name, in front of all the other kids and parents whilst he was in Yr2 and Yr3 and I could see the judgement written all over some of their faces."

rhubarb - been there, done that! Grim beyond words - for nearly 3 years with DS1 sad But that happened in the playground as the bell went not in the cloakroom. It was not a reason to clog up a limited space with me and DD in her buggy as well. I have every sympathy with parents of distressed children but I think that's a different issue.

skateboarder Tue 04-Sep-12 12:54:58

Exactly! What gets me about this kind of thing is that the children cannot see their pegs cos there are too many adults (2 parents, 1 or 2 grandparents, a sibling and a dog grin for each new starter)
I actually asked some to move out of the way so my son could find HIS peg in HIS classroom.
Passive aggressive perhaps, but they got my point.

goldenlula Tue 04-Sep-12 12:55:16

At ds1's school, the reception class is open 15 mins before the bell and parents are encouraged to go in and stay until the bell, then leave. All the other classes, Year 1 up, line up in the playground when the bell goes and the teacher comes and collects them and they all, in theory, go in in a nice line. Unfortunately for me, ds1 needed to be handed to his teacher each morning or I would have to walk him in and throw him at a TA. I did notice that for the last 2 weeks of the term before the holidays that the reception children were lining up outside with everyone else, which came from complaints from us parents of the year before that the children found the first day back in year one very daunting as it was so different and they had no idea what they should be doing, and neither did us parents!
If the school policy is no parents in the school then that is how it should be, but maybe a later start on the very first day for the reception children would be a good idea.

No, both my DCs went to their first day at secondary on the bus with their friends. That's what they preferred.
I didn't feel the need to stand at the school gate waving them off tbh.

sugarice Tue 04-Sep-12 12:58:22

Once they hit Secondary they change within the first week sad and suddenly become more independent, us Oldies become embarrassing. Any contact with Parents on a school day is usually restricted to Progress Review Day or when they're sick and need to be picked up from reception.grin.

VivaLeBeaver Tue 04-Sep-12 12:59:22

If felt good to shove my Yr7 child out the house this morning to walk to the bus stop on her own. grin

No more school gate malarky!

blisterpack Tue 04-Sep-12 13:05:33

That's just it. You say "went to their first day at secondary on the bus *with their friends*". Which means they were moving up with their friends from primary or those they knew from clubs etc. Maybe the people you saw were parents of those coming up alone from their primary.

They were in my DDs primary class.

blisterpack Tue 04-Sep-12 13:09:09

Ok then I give up.
grin

RabidAnchovy Tue 04-Sep-12 13:25:53

My 16 year old started sixth form today, Am I a bad mother for not holding his hand and taking him to his class grin

archilles Tue 04-Sep-12 13:32:18

Personally I think parents accompanying kids into the cloakroom makes them worse. Say goodbye in the playground ffs.

I have never followed my ds into school, god forbid.

Sorry about your dd doin.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 13:34:31

Rabid ring the college and check he's ok. He may still be stood outside. shock

DD1 and DD2s primary had a nice system for starting reception. Both were january starts, so don't know how it worked in September, but each child was given a start time for their first day, staggered by 20 or 30 minutes. Parents accompanied their DC to the classroom, were met by the teacher, coats, bags hung up, all trooped into the class, DC was sat down at a painting/cutting and sticking activity, fabulous old school reception teacher said "right then DC, say bye bye to Mummy, off you go now, [big wink to child] we do't need mummies cluttering up the classroom when we're having fun, do we?", and sent paretns down to the headteacher for handholding, snivelling, and a bit of not-really-needed admin. Each DC got a personalised start, teacher wasn't overwhelmed with 30 new pupils all at once, and the perfomance mummies found it a bit harder to perform just for the head wink.

Re secondary - DD2 gained massive cool points because her big sister in sixth form took her in on her first day, rather than being dropped off by me grin. I was busy snivelling after dropping DD3 off at her first school aged 7 (she was mostly HE till then) where there is no option for parents to get in and cause chaos thankfully. Parent wouldnt make it onto the secondary school site actually, as the gates are manned by a rota of teachers doing crowd control and nagging about untucked shirts and too short skirts. Parents would never get past some of the scarier teachers.

rabid you mean you didn't take him in, look at his timetable, make sure he was in the class with all his friends and knew where to put his coat??

Tut tut tut

BetsyBoop Tue 04-Sep-12 14:09:37

My DC school have a similar system to IShallWearMidnight's school on the first day, works very well (DS's first day tomorrow, gulp...)

They also have bouncers two TAs blocking on the door to stop parents getting in the cloakroom. We had the same helicopter parents every morning in DD's reception year, pushing and trying to reach past the TAs as if they were trying to hang up their DCs coat for them, no matter how many times they were asked to give ALL the kids some space. Step away for heavens sake....

Blister my dd was an 'only' child when she started secondary. She would no more have had me drop her at school than go in wearing only her undercrackers grin The high school seemed to have systems for kids moving up without their old classmates iirc.

I worried a lot last year when she was starting, but she was fine! I was allowed to drop her at the corner of the street-next-but-one and that was the closest I got until parents evening months later

tiggytape Tue 04-Sep-12 14:16:59

DS doesn't know a soul at his new school tomorrow (well he knows some in the older year groups but nobody who lives near us and nobody he can travel with).

He also has a physical impairment that makes him quite vulnerable in a lot of ways.

But he will still be going to school on his own tomorrow.

We have practiced the route. We have discussed which roads are busy and dodgy and what to look out for (one junction where cars jump the lights). He has a phone. He has emergency money. He knows how to get help and what to do in an emergency.
That's as much as I can do to prepare him. It would be social suicide to turn up with his Mum at the school gates especially as the other boys who do know each other will be arriving in groups to see such a spectacle!

Goldenbear Tue 04-Sep-12 14:34:48

YANBU to expect your DD to not be pushed into a wall by an overzealous parent but YABU to underestimate the big deal it is for a lot of parents. When my DS was in reception (last year) it was the school rule to bring them into the classroom, hang their coat up, refill their water bottle for the day, indicate on a chart whether they were having packed lunch or a school dinner and also write any names on boards of people who were picking them up if different from yourself! This was expected for the whole of the Autumn term- it took at least 20 mins every day for a term!

It was a bit chaotic sometimes and 3 children's parents would stay longer to deal with settling in problems. One dad stood outside the classroom for 15 minutes after registration to reassure his daughter who was allowed to come out for incremental hugs in that time. Another mum would sit with her daughter to help her with the first activity they had chosen to do themselves. My DS would barely bat in eyelid, TA would remind him to say goodbye to me. However, I would often chat to the Dad who was a very nice man, he wasn't obsessive or anything. They are very young, some much younger than others- my DS being one. I think parents are rightly concerned for their children who find this all a bit overwhelming.

LittleMissFlustered Tue 04-Sep-12 15:13:02

There's a gate between the playground melee and the year 1 classrooms at my kids' school. Nobody gets pastgrin It's fun watching them try thoughwink

My middle one starts year one tomorrow, I'll be waving from a distance, like I did for 90% of his reception year too. Can't be dealing with the weeping and woe. I might call a whaaaaaambulance if it's bad in morninggrin

Before anyone asks, children who need to meet their 1-to-1 or have a major problem that day go through the office. It's a good systemsmile

KitchenandJumble Tue 04-Sep-12 15:47:26

YANBU. What a nightmare. I agree that the school should be firm about the rules, but I can also see that a couple of teachers are probably no match for the hordes of parents and assorted others.

I do wonder when all this intense involvement began. My mother never set foot in our school in the mornings, even when I began school in the U.K., having just moved from another country. I was 5 years old at the time.

Sparklingbrook Tue 04-Sep-12 16:27:06

Not only the parental involvement Kitchen, the parental defiance. sad

McHappyPants2012 Tue 04-Sep-12 16:29:17

It creates more problem than it solves, stay out side and let the teacher settle the class down.

I dropped off my pfb son for his first ever day at reception and the mood amongst most parents was generally carnival light.

But I watched with astonishment through the window as some parents milled around the classroom for ages after their children had gone in. Even those I know to have additional needs were pretty much dumped.

But then we were shown the classroom and cloakroom at the parents' meeting in July where there was lots of wine so maybe we weren't as intimidated.

Eggrules Tue 04-Sep-12 16:58:24

D0oinMeCleanin I agree with you whole heartedly. 'mummy who shoved past dd2 to get to her whimpering child - shame on you'

DS starts Y1 this week. Last year his class entered through a door straight into the classroom. Parents/ carers were asked not to go into the classroom after the first week. We had at least six reminders and some people never did listen. Every morning without fail, he couldn't get in past dadzillas and momsters.

It isn't always obvious if children or parents have special needs. Anyone that needs extra support should get it. The DC are in Y1 and most will have spent a year at school so that probably isn't what happened here.

I was thinking about this. When I started secondary, I rode my bike to the station, caught a train, then caught a bus at the far end. Now I can't say for sure that I did all that on the first day (might have been taken in by car, possibly), but I know neither parent ever did it with me. I also remember that when I was knocked off my bike by a car I got up, carried on, and it was my form teacher who sent me to the nurse to have half the road gravel picked out of my knee - and that must have been in my first year there, because I was only at that school for a year before we moved and I had to do the whole first day thing all over again sad.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea Tue 04-Sep-12 17:17:20

Thanks for this thread D0oin, my PFB starts school tomorrow so I now have a list of what not to do.

I totally agree that parents should abide by the rules. If they don't like them, they need to address it with the HT, not just do their own thing.

I hope it gets better at your school as the year goes on.

DonnaDoon Tue 04-Sep-12 17:25:49

OP I couldn't agree with you more. YANBU.

Hulababy Tue 04-Sep-12 17:38:48

At school I work at parents in infants DO come into cloakrooms and classrooms. It is encouraged. Infact they HAVE to. Parents have to at least bring the child into the cloakroom. There is then a 10 minute period of time between doors opening and the bell going - parents can come at any time. They can come into class and begin a task with their child or they can leave straight away. They can also see the teacher and TA at this time.

It works fine. The 10 minute time period allows for people to come a little staggered. despite a smallish area there is no unpleasantness, no pushing and shoving, no upset children....it just is a pleasant time of the day infact.

If school is going to have a stay out policy though then there should be staff out there to monitor it and not allowing parents to enter the school.

BonnyDay Tue 04-Sep-12 17:40:14

i think fuck off parents tbh- they make other kdis way more angsty in an effort to calm their own

OP YANBU, why do they do it? I don't believe that all the children there needed sooo much support. The mother was bang out of order.

I can see TheRhubarbs point of view, if a child needs more support then parents should work with the school to get it and balance everyones needs, children settling in well is important.

I've got DS1 in Year 1, I'll have to see how the others work out but DS's school split the class, half come in, in the morning, half in the afternoon. They gradually increase the time to include lunches and from the third week they are in full time. Seemed to work well with all the children, some still have their parents helping them in later, but only a couple so didn't seem to cause any problems.

Oakmaiden Tue 04-Sep-12 17:47:18

This is why I love my children's school.

Because we are welcomed into the school building and are expected to accompany our child to their classroom until at least year 2.

It makes for such a different environment than the headteacher stood at the main door of the school making sure parents don't go into the building without a good reason.

However, the mother rushing to her precious whimpering child sound slightly irrational...

MrsRigby Tue 04-Sep-12 17:48:15

I have nothing really to add to this thread other than to state clearly that I hate the term PFB.

This is a really nasty and offensive term for a mother who simply cares for her child and may go that extra mile where other parents just cannot be arsed.

Oakmaiden, genuine question, how does it work if you have smaller children? I have twins who are two and I would have to leave them outside for that time, I really couldn't do that. DS1 lines up at a gate with the other children, I say goodbye and he goes in with the others.

Oakmaiden Tue 04-Sep-12 17:51:19

Just read Hula's post - I think that makes a difference, Hula. Our children are welcome in the classroom any time from 8:30 (for a 8:45 start) and many go to breakfast club before that, so are dropped off any time from 8am. Which means there are not many children arriving at one time.

Thanks

Oakmaiden Tue 04-Sep-12 17:55:03

tryingnoto - parents take smaller ones in with them. It is strange
I can see it would be tight with a double buggy though... so I am not sure how you would manage two children who didn't walk.

Although in reality I the school entrance hall is a sort of open office with the secretary sat there, and I suspect most parents in that situation would park their smaller offspring with her for a few minutes.

Oakmaiden Tue 04-Sep-12 17:56:23

the "it is strange" part of my post is not supposed to be there. It was a random thought about how "family" focused the school is, and I was going to delete it, but forgot...

Oakmaiden, they can walk which is the problem, whenever (rarely thank god)I take them in the classroom, I have to leave the buggy outside, they leg it in opposite directions and start playing with everything, love paints and scissors.

Hulababy Tue 04-Sep-12 18:01:38

tryingtonotfeckup - at our school the siblings come in too. If they are also school age but a lower class parents here tend to drop the older one off first, quite quickly, and then take the younger child to their class after that.

The only thing we say is that pushchairs have to stay outside the building - so parents just carry babies, and toddlers just toddler around in the class.

One thing it does mean is that for many younger siblings - school classrooms are very familiar to them and so are many of the teachers.

Hulababy Tue 04-Sep-12 18:03:54

Last year the little one's loved our Y1 classroom as I used to make a big role play area in one corner, one where they could get right inside - the little ones always wanted to go and have a look smile The little ones were very excited at the end of term as I was making a dark dinosaur cave!

Yes mrsrigby they go that extra mile whilst pushing other children out of the way hmm

Bosgrove Tue 04-Sep-12 18:11:24

I have been through both the drop and runs system and the softly softly approach at our school, it changed between my Ds and DD starting.

I much prefer the drop and run approach, I used to take DS to the playground, the bell went and they lined up in classes and were talking in my the Teacher and TA, yes some cried (DS cried for weeks), but they were comforted by the TA at the back of the row and they stop quite quickly once they were in the class. Mums, Dad, siblings, Grandparents, Uncle Tom Cobley and All waved goodbye to their precious child fromn the safety of the playground.

With the Softly softly approach, they open their doors at 8.50 (for a 9am start) and it seemed that each child had at least three people with them trying to put their bottles, coats, bags etc away. The classroom isn't huge and there are 60 kids in the class (two teachers and two TA's) so there are between 150 - 200 people plus the child trying to do the drop in that 10 minutes, the number did drop down after the first week, but still there were around 100 people doing the drop off, once you had the carer and siblings for each child. It was madness. The number of people upset my DD more that the drop and run would have, I was so glad when they said after Christmas we had to leave them at the door.

Parents are welcome in the school, there are at least 2 parents helping in the classes each morning and afternoon, but even if you are helping you are ex-pected to leave at the door and then go to the office to sign in.

And if you need to talk to the teachers for any reason you have one Teacher and TA in the playground every morning to answer questions and help.

madwomanintheattic Tue 04-Sep-12 18:13:39

grin

I had to bribe dd2 to let me go to the bus stop with her this morning (there are no other kids that use the same stop). There was no way on this earth she was letting me anywhere near the school. She's 8 with cerebral palsy and attends mainstream with no support. The biggest risk to her safety (and indeed her peers lol) is that she gets jostled or bumped, as she will fall and take out anyone who's in the way. (ask the TA who was behind her on the stairs).

She has no clue who her teacher is this year, they don't do the 'move up day' thing. Kids (and parents) turn up to school on the first day of term and there are class lists pinned on the walls of the school, so you have to go and find your name, and then find the classroom.

She's nails, my kid. grin

<chews own nails, and frets slightly>

mummytime Tue 04-Sep-12 18:15:16

Sorry haven't read the whole thread. BUT some kids do need more personal attention at 4 not everyone is ready to skip into school happily and leave Mummy and everyone familiar outside, regardless of how many visits have been made. Actually some kids are still struggling in year 2.
My kids school has reception kids starting 1/2 hours later, one adult per kid max, and encouraged no to go into the cloakroom etc. after the first week.
BUT some kids need a differently arranged drop off, my eldest wasn't even scared but would hold onto me so hard I would have to prise his fingers off to get away. Some kids will just shout and scream, and then set everyone else off, if you can even get them from the playground to the door.
Another advantage my kids school had was that every class room had a back door so parents could take their kids into the classroom then sneak out if necessary. It also has TAs who are very good at separating parents and kids.

madwomanintheattic Tue 04-Sep-12 18:15:56

<tries to ignore the fact that dd2 can barely manage the zip on her bag, let alone get her stuff organized. And that she has a retained reflex that means she still does a Moro startle (with occasional drop to the floor) at unexpected loud noises. Please Gawd let no one screech in the excitement of the class lists>

Not long until three o clock...

Hulababy, sounds lovely and a good way of getting children used to the school before they start.

From lots of the posts, lots of schools seem to manage the start of school well, the different methods vary depending on personalities plus the layout of the school. DS1's school seem to manage it well, it goes smoothly and I've always felt welcome and able to talk the teacher / TA whenever I have felt that I needed / wanted to. Shame it didn't happen for the OP today.

lurkerspeaks Tue 04-Sep-12 18:25:46

Couldn't agree with OP more. Why can parents not abide by rules that were made to ensure every childs safety. Instead they are obsessed with making THEIR childs experience better often to the detriment of others.

Life just doesn't work like that everyone has to do difficult things occasionally. Starting school working out how the classroom /cloakroom functions is one of those things. Much better to learn in reception than discover in yr 3 that your kid has no concept of removing outdoor clothing and putting on their indoor shoes because you've been helicoptering for the past 3 years.

nokidshere Tue 04-Sep-12 18:28:56

our primary school doesn't have cloakrooms and positively encourages parents into the classroom so its not really an issue.

Why did you not just see the teacher and ask her to get everyone to leave? Or at least send a note home asking that they don't do it again tomorrow!

avivabeaver Tue 04-Sep-12 18:29:03

at dd3's new school the teacher stands at the door of the classroom (which is an external door) and greets each child. There is no question of a parent going into the classroom. The teacher firmly but kindly lets the child in and they go the cloakroom where the TA helps them find their peg and stashes lunch box etc.

layout of school helps but everyone is treated the same throughout the school.

IneedAgoldenNickname Tue 04-Sep-12 18:31:13

I start college tomorrow, I wonder if I can persuade my Mum to drop me off grin

MollyMurphy Tue 04-Sep-12 18:32:16

That sounds lovely diddl - I can understand parents wanting to be present and support their little one on their first day of school ever....too bad the school hasn't set it up in such a way that it can be positive and interactive for everyone.

AmberLeaf Tue 04-Sep-12 18:33:02

Drop and run is the best approach IMO.

Hanging around just prolongs the agony!

I'll never forget one mum who carried her DD into reception class on the first day! then wondered why she clung onto her when she tried to leave.

Lara2 Tue 04-Sep-12 18:53:03

I couldn't bear to read all this thread. So many posters come across as completely uncaring and judgey. I teach Year R and I'm quite happy for parents to come in, help their child and settle them. After all they're leaving their child with someone who is basically a stranger, which can also be scary for a child. Why should they just be left because it's 'easier in the long run'? Not for all children it isn't. A bit of time invested in the beginning can make all the difference to some children and you don't end up with a long term problem.
They are small children who deserve care and consideration in a new, big maybe scary place. And why should parents be left outside? Is school not a partnership with parents? Why should I expect you to support me and my job if I have so little respect for you - stay outside like a dog tied up outside a shop?!!

And not a mention of the injured child in your post lara....

tiggytape Tue 04-Sep-12 18:58:53

Lara - But not if a child is actually injured in the crush because the school simply doesn't have space for all those adults, it is kinder not to allow parents in. Starting school on your first day with a bleeding wound having been shoved face first into a wall by a parent isn't in anyone's best interest longterm or short term.

Posts here suggest some school buildings are designed (either on purpose or by happy accident) to have a large entrance into Reception, a separate entrance for Reception, large classroom space or other features that make parents coming inside feasible.

Not all schools have this and those schools tend to ask parents please not to come in at all (as OP's school did numerous times in introduction days and letters home). Special arrangements are offered for those who know their child will need extra support but otherwise safety has to come above the needs of parents or children to say a more gradual good bye.

Hulababy Tue 04-Sep-12 19:03:58

Bosgrove - why so many people with each child though? We rarely have more than one adult bring a child in and only about 1/3 class even have siblings too. In the school you talk about it definitely wouldn't be sustainable. In our school though it is nothing like that and works really well.

BellaVita Tue 04-Sep-12 19:08:24

And these parents will turn into the same bloody annoying parents who insist on bringing in their new Yr7 child into reception when it isn't even time to start and the staff will actually be filtering the children in from outside into the hall via the fire exit.

These are the same parents who have been told the arrangements on the meet the tutor days...

Sheesh angry

I have already sussed the needy parents out...

Bosgrove Tue 04-Sep-12 19:15:23

I have three children, it seems to be the most popular number at our school, a lots of the parents have three children, some four and a few more. Reception starts 10 minutes before year 1 and 2, as their entrance is at the front of the school and the other years at the back.

So I have my YR child, my Y2 child and my preschooler. The school is on a busy main road with an open gate ( it gets locked at 9am), so I have to take the other two children into the Reception class with me. I leave the pram parked in the playground.

On the first morning, most of the children have Mum, Dad, Grandparent and siblings, after the first week you just need each child to have 1 parent (extra 60 people) and 1 or 2 siblings (60 - 120ish people), plus the 60 in the class and the school staff, it soon adds up.

I am not looking forward to next year when I have to do it all again with DD2 - the teachers did suggest that we complain to the school about it, they changed it from drop and run because of something in the schools ofsed report.

Eggrules Tue 04-Sep-12 19:15:32

My DS(5) was convinced he was to walk to school on his own - the teacher meant go into the classroom but he was fully prepared to go it alone on day 2 of Reception.

His friend from nursery was very upset until after Christmas (at least). Her lovely mum didn't shove other children out of the way or block the door . She arranged for her to go in a bit later and she was allowed to go into the classroom. She made sensible arrangements with the school.

I have an only and don't mind the term pfb. I thank feck that people have psb, ptb, etc. so they can share the madness around the school a bit.

Hulababy Tue 04-Sep-12 19:17:04

Bosgrove - sounds very much like my school in the description, just without quite so many people milling around.

manicinsomniac Tue 04-Sep-12 19:24:13

YANBU, that must have been so infuriating.

I work in a school with a totally open door policy. There are parents everywhere, well past the bell and it's so annoying. We don't even have an infants, we start at Y3!

Every Y3 classroom is full of parents every morning and parents are a very definite presence in all the higher years too. I have Y6 and fully expect to be talking to parents for a good 15 minutes past 8.30 on Thursday morning before I can even begin to welcome the actual members of my class hmm

A couple of years ago I had a Y7 class and a mum put her head round the door at 8.55 (25 minutes after the day had begun!), completely ignored me and said 'X darling, you forgot your jumper, come and get it'. Child wasn't even embarrassed, it is normal to them! Another Y7 child used to be regularly seen crying outside her classroom and clinging to her mum in the mornings. Perfectly nice, normal child, just ever so overprotected! Sobbing Y3 and 4s aren't unusual at all and I swear it's only because the parents are there. If it was drop and go, they would be fine.

Personally, I'm a firm believer in wave, smile and go from the outset. Plus, surely not every child has someone able to hang about at 9am. My youngest was walked down the drive to our connecting infant school on her first day in Reception by a helpful Y8 because I got stuck in a meeting with another parent. Having to be at work well before 8.30 or 9 can't be unusual.

DS has just started Yr4. At 8:45 door to cloakroom opens, kids line up and walk in. No parents allowed in as the cloackroom is too small. Same as for Yrs 1-3 previously and Yr 5&6 as with his older sister.

Reception has separate entrance and small separate playground, although when the kids get more confident they can join rest of Key Stage 1 in the wider playground. The Reception kids can have parents going in for up to 10 mins in the morning (although I rarely did, I had to be at work by 8am). Buggies not permitted in the building, and numbers of parents allowed in was limited to 2 per child due to space.

As for secondary school, DD walked there with friends last year for the start of Yr7. No parents, they already knew which form they'd be in. They had already had two days of acclimatisation at their new school at the end of Yr6, so they had already met their new form mates. One of her new friends was the only one attending from her small village school, but she was already known to DD and a couple of others as they are in the same Guides pack.

If I'd offered to accompany her, to go in, even, and see where everything was, I think DD would have died on the spot rather than take me up on the offer. It's sooo not cool to have parents doing anything other than the taxi run at this school.

GlassofRose Tue 04-Sep-12 19:33:07

Lara - As a reception teacher surely you know like the rest of us that have worked in education that it tends to be the parents rather than the children who are upset by the whole first day. Obviously you have the odd child who will cling but not a class of 30 (in my experience).

In the schools I've worked in the children entering reception make a few visits to spend time in their new classroom and meeting their new teacher (whilst still at nursery) so that first day of school is not actually dumping your child with a stranger.

I don't think some of the people on here are coming across as uncaring at all. In fact I think they care about their children having the ability to go enjoy the first day of school without inflicting their own worries onto them. Most of the children who get anxious are the ones with the parents flaunting their anxiety.

maytheoddsbeeverinyourfavour Tue 04-Sep-12 21:23:57

YANBU

I think it's lovely when parents can go in with the little ones to settle them in, but wether they can or they can't it's up to the school and I have no respect for anyone who ignores the rules and think they and their child are above them. If a child needs extra help then the schools are usually more than happy to help so there should be no excuses for just deciding to break the rules and making things harder for everyone else

marb2309 Tue 04-Sep-12 21:24:31

Lara - totally agree with you.

And op - IMV YABU and totally self centred.

Why does such a small thing bother you so much?

NoLogo Tue 04-Sep-12 21:54:35

Marb, it was not a small thing: OP's child was hurt by a thick as fuck adult parent. It was that parent who was being VU and self centered.

I wouldn't just be bothered, I would have been fuming and would have told that parent there and then.

Ah fuck, just had a lovely year off the school run because my eldest (PFB) started taking himself. Now I have to start it all again with DS2.

OP YANBU, I hate the school run.

LtEveDallas Tue 04-Sep-12 21:56:01

Marb, small thing? What?

Did you actually read the thread?

OPs daughter was shoved, face first, into a wall. She was injured, bleeding and shocked.

You think that is a 'small thing'?

Words fail me.

Rollmops Tue 04-Sep-12 22:02:08

DooinCleanin..., I sincerely hope you do not work in a school (apart from dooin some cleanin) as one would be rather opposed to having you, based on your wonderfulhmm way of expressing your kind thoughts etc on this forum, anywhere near say, under 18s.

rosyposyandc Tue 04-Sep-12 22:08:49

OP sorry your dc got hurt and that is not acceptable but you come across very badly in your post. Different children require different handling especially on the first day of something so huge and being so young. A bit of understanding and help all round is best, now isn't it?

NoLogo Tue 04-Sep-12 22:12:29

Rollmops, who cares about a bit of swearing and venting on an adult internet forum? In fact, who gives a flying fuck? wink

Her child has been hurt today by some arsehole parent. I would far rather OP was in the vicinity of my child swearing under her breath, than some Mummy twat shoving my DS 2 out of the way when he starts school on Thursday.

Eggrules Tue 04-Sep-12 22:15:58

The worst thing the OP did was rant here. hmm

I normally can roll my eyes at the special snowflake squad. If someone had pushed my DC into a wall, I would have been upset in the same situation.

The OP has made it clear that any special needs or additional concerns can be dealt with sympathetically.

NoLogo Tue 04-Sep-12 22:22:04

I know Egg. There a people on here doing the "You sound lovely hmm", are more concerned about the angry (justifiably) tone and swearing, but not one of those types has asked the OP about her DD or said it is awful that she was hurt. They are the ones who will be bustling around the cloakroom and class room for weeks on end bothering the kids and teachers and they are the reason I mainly dislike the school run.

The more I know of people, the more I like books......

I am dreading all this again. Can you tell, I go down like a fart in a spacesuit in the school yard? grin

LtEveDallas Tue 04-Sep-12 22:24:35

grin I hate the school run too, so I don't do it

(I get DH to do it...)

HumphreyCobbler Tue 04-Sep-12 22:26:42

tbh I think the OP was having a justifiable rant. I am sorry her child got hurt. I find it amazing that parents do not think that their children will be safe with the staff of the school, that they think the child will be left to flounder in the cloakroom with no assistance or help. If a school has asked parents not to come in they will have made arrangements to steer the children towards the correct peg etc.

I think those who are getting in a twist over the tone of the OP are the people that went into the cloakroom with their dc when they started school. The thing is, it may be appropriate to do so in a different school with a different amount of space available, but clearly not in the school mentioned here.

NoLogo Tue 04-Sep-12 22:27:34

Aww LtEve, can your DH drop off my DS too please?

Oh well.......

Eggrules Tue 04-Sep-12 22:29:06

D0oinMeCleanin didn't 'do her in' ffs.

She let off steam (with swear words) on an internet forum.

I upgrade upset to fucking fuming.

NoLogo Tue 04-Sep-12 22:29:31

I rather regret that my DS won't be in Doin's DD's class. We could get together and form a covern an alliance.

Leena49 Wed 05-Sep-12 06:24:41

Her first day in year 2 today . She never got to meet her new teacher last year so today will be the first day. She was upset and anxious last night about meeting her. I'm gonna be in that cloakroom today unless that teacher is standing at the door and greeting her with a smile.

D0oinMeCleanin Wed 05-Sep-12 09:25:27

Well she got in okay today. We got there very early and she waited right by the door until it opened so she was one of the first in. She told her teacher she was going to take her coat off really quickly and run to the classroom before all the mummies and daddies came.

Her nose is okay. There is a tiny scratch on the end of it, but it's not that noticeable unless you know it's there.

Yes I got very pissed off. I don't deal with crowded spaces well myself and I couldn't help to think that if I felt that uncomfortable and I am 5ft9, then how bad does a tiny 5yo feel, who is swamped by people three times their size? It's quite shocking to see your child just shoved out of the way by another parent. I think anyone one on here would have felt just as pissed off about it all as I did.

The school did seem to be dealing with it better today. I saw one mum being turned away when she tried to get in with her child.

Wrt other schools welcoming parents in, well that's great. I'd have no problem with parents going into the school if they'd been asked/encouraged to and the set up was made safe to do so, but the fact is our school has explicitly asked parents to stay out, several million times over in fact. There is simply not enough space for all of those people. It is not safe to cram all of those adults into a space that small when there are small children here, there and everywhere.

The school do work well with parents, but in different ways. At the end of last term all parents, not just those of new starters were invited to "wine and nibbles" night to meet their child's new teacher and see where/what they were learning.

Parents and new starters are invited to opening evenings to meet the teacher and see the class and to be shown where to go.

All pupils including new starters spend a day with their new teacher making an "all about me" booklet and meeting their peers. New starters are invited in for lunch with their parents.

They do lots throughout the year that include parents. There are some weeks I feel like I spend more time at that bloody school than I do at work. The HT has an open door policy between 9am and 10am for any parents who have concerns as does the school liaison officer. The SENCO makes herself available for an hour after school time.

The school deal with new starters and moving up into the next year very very well imo. There really is no need to ignore the rules. The children already know where to go. They've already made friends. They already know their teacher, as do the parents. Children with extra needs are accomadated for.

Is this the wrong time and place to mention that for the first time ever I don't have to go into the primary school in the mornings. DD and DS1 are in secondary now and DS2 has just started to let me drop him at the school gate in the car! Yay! Hurrah! Break open the champagne...... I can't tell you what a relief it is after 11 years.

<smug>

As you were wink.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Wed 05-Sep-12 10:03:32

We were 5 minutes late every morning, with the teacher's blessing, in order to avoid the kind of ruck the OP describes, as were a couple of other children.

This was until the school changed their open door policy (or rather implemented it more sensibly). Every report time (when we gave feedback to the school about them, as well as they to us about the children) I brought this up and I know I wasn't alone.

It is far, far kinder to allow children (small and not so small) to enter a calm environment. Kiss and hug in the playground, then send them in to a welcoming, comfortable classroom/cloakroom. The teacher-mobbing must have been insufferable for them too; I get the impression they were grateful for mine and others' pleading to keep parents, for the most part, out, and let them get on with their jobs.

ChazsGoldAttitude Wed 05-Sep-12 10:20:56

My DS's school brings the reception children in a day earlier just for a few hours. That way the YR parents can have their first day at school emotional moments (that was me last year with DS2) but it doesn't disrupt anyone and the YR get a chance to find their feet.

We were all allowed to pop into the classrooms today to say hello to the teachers but from what I saw of the Yr1 parents, none of us lingered.

ChazsGoldAttitude Wed 05-Sep-12 10:21:34

Orm
envy

Sparklingbrook Wed 05-Sep-12 10:52:31

That was me last year Orm. Back home in double quick time. grin

Glad it was better today D0oin. I understand your point totally. Parents need to abide by the rules too.

Eggrules Wed 05-Sep-12 12:20:36

Glad your DD was ok today.

Growlithe Wed 05-Sep-12 12:32:29

My DD was in nursery last year. There was a mum who used to volunteer to help at the school whenever she could and even when there was nothing going on she would engineer a way to get into the school . Great, you may think, but the only reason she did it was to be able to go and collect her DS from his class instead of queuing in the playground with the other parents, because 'it made her child feel special'. hmm What about our children, are they not special? One of the other boys would often be crying when he came out whenever this happened, because his mum didn't ever collect him early from class.

Luckily, her child is not starting reception on the same day as mine. I think there will be a real scene when she has to leave him all day, and I'd rather not witness it.

YANBU. I'd have kicked off there and then and demanded an explanation.

And this is why DDs Dad will be taking her to school when she starts.

MimiSam Wed 05-Sep-12 12:57:02

I read this thread yesterday and remembered it this morning, as I dropped my DD off for her first day in Y1 - yes, there was an almightly scrum in the cloakroom (which is in fact a rather narrow corridor), yes, there were whole families, including grandparents, and blow me down if several parents were not also carrying bloody scooters, instead of leaving them outside - this is not a school were scooters are likely to be stolen and even if people were worried about that, you would have thought that one of the entourage could have stayed outside with the scooter, while the others accompanied the child inside....

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