vegan mum at kids party was rude?

(400 Posts)
DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 20:42:24

Took DS to a young child's birthday party at soft play today, and there was a vegan mum with her DC there. When it came to cake time, there was no vegan cake, so the mum gave her DC a chocolate lollipop out of her bag.

OK, her DC seemed happy with the situation and asked to hosts to check what was and wasn't vegan. So no problem there I don't think (although I'll bet my bottom dollar they'll rebel and live on bacon sandwiches when they're old enough to ignore their mum!) grin

BUT AIBU to think that taking separate treats to a party is A) rude to the hosts and B) unfair to the other children at the party who might prefer what the vegan DC are eating?

TheHonMrsP Sun 15-Apr-12 20:43:28

yabvvvu

I do this all the time - I have no idea why you might think it was a problem.

HexagonalQueenOfTheSummer Sun 15-Apr-12 20:43:39

YABU, I don't see a problem with it. would you prefer that the vegan child sat there with nothing whilst the others tucked into cake?

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 20:44:17

YABU, Would you rather the child got nothing and just sat and watch the other children eat cake?

sausagesandmarmelade Sun 15-Apr-12 20:44:33

Seems that parents can prove more of a problem than kids. Ban the parents....let them take their kids to the party...drop them off and collect them when it's over.

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 20:44:48

X post with Hex grin

fivegomadindorset Sun 15-Apr-12 20:45:01

YABU, so it would be OK for the child to sit and watch the other children eating treats which they cant have?

Procrastinating Sun 15-Apr-12 20:45:07

YABU. Not rude at all.

TiggyD Sun 15-Apr-12 20:45:12

YABU.

D0oinMeCleanin Sun 15-Apr-12 20:45:18

YABU. Surely it would have been more rude for her to expect the party hosts to cater special foods just for her? And unfair to stop her ds going because of her lifestyle?

And how do you know she didn't have extra lollies incase anyone wanted one? Did anyone ask for one?

MagsAloof Sun 15-Apr-12 20:45:19

I think if you have quite a limited diet like a vegan / Kosher etc do it is fair enough.

Otherwise, rude.

FashionEaster Sun 15-Apr-12 20:45:25

Sounds totally practical and a good way of ensuring her dcs don't miss out. If the other kids want what her kids are having, hard cheese or rather a slice of birthday cake.

YABU smile

DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 20:45:32

I suppose because the vegan diet has been 'inflicted' on the DC, I also feel sorry for them having to ask what's vegan and what isn't. One day mum won't be there with her bag of lollies, then what will they do?!

Morph2 Sun 15-Apr-12 20:45:41

i think YABU if her child can't eat the vegan treats then whats the problem with her providing her own. I think she would be unreasonale if she expected the host to provide or made the child go without

WorraLiberty Sun 15-Apr-12 20:45:46

YABU

So what if some kids might 'prefer' what the vegan child was eating?

You can't have everything you want.

It sounds sensible to me. I would think a child with a restricted diet probably quite often fancies what the other children are eating, too ... I quite often fancy what the lady at the next table is eating, and the cat quite often fancies what I am eating.

Is it the end of the world?

SuePurblyBusinesslike Sun 15-Apr-12 20:46:28

Indeed, what would have worked for you OP even though it was nowt to do with you? The child getting nothing? The mother taking him home? Them saying 'Oh, it was a silly idea anyway, this Veganism shizzle' and handing him a hot dog?

rhondajean Sun 15-Apr-12 20:46:29

Really?

I thought this was going to be about a mum throwing a fit as there was no vegan food for her child.

So she came prepared to avoid a scene, and then when her child couldn't have cake just gave him an alternative rather than making hte host feel bad?

Yabvvvvvu.
The other kids were provided with cake, it would have been them being rude if they had asked for something else.

I also have a vegan friend and I don't think you appreciate how difficult it can be for them to find suitable food out and about.

Harecare Sun 15-Apr-12 20:46:36

YABU. Would you want her kid to sit there with no cake and no treat at all?

Proudnscary Sun 15-Apr-12 20:46:36

Bloody hell I thought you were going to say she made a scene about there being non-vegan food there, not considerately and sensibly giving her dc a lolly!

YABU!!!!

Are you for reals?

EllenJaneisnotmyname Sun 15-Apr-12 20:46:47

Surely you know yabvu? It sounds eminently sensible to me. Otherwise her child would have had no treat at all? It would have been even better had the party hosts known the child was vegan and provided something, but in case they didn't how can this have been at all rude?

parakeet Sun 15-Apr-12 20:46:57

YABU.

Butt out, there's a dear.

When I had parties for my eldest I always made sure I catered for all dietary needs, be it vegetarian, vegan or halal. If i hadn't I wouldn't have been offended if the mum had sorted their own child out, I wouldn't want to see a child go hungry. So I don't think the mum was unreasonable at all.

hermioneweasley Sun 15-Apr-12 20:47:32

No problem with taking something suitable fr her DS - unlikely to be vegan cake at a kids birthday party. Nowhere near unreasonable as the mum of a girl WHO DID NOT RSVP to DS's birthday party who coukdn't have nuts or milk. Her mother proceeded to grab every packet saying "Ooo, DD can't have that". If she had said 1. she was coming and 2. had allergies WE WOULD HAVE CATERED FOR THEM!! <and breathe>

Seona1973 Sun 15-Apr-12 20:47:32

it was probably a soya chocolate lollipop and would taste minging anyway - I think it is fine to take treats for your child so they dont miss out if nothing has been provided that they can eat e.g. at ds's party there was a girl who has cannot have gluten so we provided gluten free cake for her. At ds's party a boy couldnt have dairy or egg so I bought dairy free chocolate buttons for him and sweets/crisps that he could eat

StrandedBear Sun 15-Apr-12 20:47:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 20:47:56

You could say that about any diet.

Obviously veganism is normal for this child so I'm sure he would know exactly what to do in that situation.

lolajane2009 Sun 15-Apr-12 20:48:39

yabu, would you feel the same if the child had an allergy?

everlong Sun 15-Apr-12 20:49:11

Yabu.

Ds has a little boy in his class who is a vegan and at every party just before the dc eat the party food the mum whisks him home.

holidaywoe Sun 15-Apr-12 20:49:15

I think the parent was BU at having a vegan child but if they must then I think it was good of them to take their own things to a party as its less for the host to have to think about.

cansu Sun 15-Apr-12 20:49:33

You are being ridiculous. she is being thoughtful by not expecting hosts to provide vegan alternative. I have a very fussy dd (ASD) who refuses most food. If we are going somewhere I take along what she will eat so there are no issues when out and about or at parties etc.

Fedupateaster Sun 15-Apr-12 20:49:50

One of my DC has severe allergies and we always bring our own treats to parties. Would have no food if we didn't. YABU.

mynewpassion Sun 15-Apr-12 20:50:10

YABU! So what if the child later decides that he/she will not be a vegan. Until then, the parents will make the decision and they want their child to eat vegan food only.

The mother caused no scene and everyone was happy. She seemed like a great mother instead of a judgey one.

TheAvocadoOfWisdom Sun 15-Apr-12 20:50:31

yabu. I usually have a lolly or two in my handbag in case the children are given haribo.

Calamityboo Sun 15-Apr-12 20:50:37

I don't really get what the issue is, she provided suitable food for her DC, DC was happy with this as he was able to attend the party with his friends, would you have preffered the DC to stay away so the other kids didn't have to see him have something different? I am sure any other parent their would have explained to their child if they asked for a chocolate lolly, that the DC was having a lolly and not cake as he was not allowed any cake, but they had cake as the lolly was just for the DC. hmm

madmouse Sun 15-Apr-12 20:50:40

That mum was very sensible - making sure her kid had treats without inconveniencing an already busy/stressed hostess.

StrandedBear Sun 15-Apr-12 20:50:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fivegomadindorset Sun 15-Apr-12 20:50:48

Why on earth is the parent BU for having a vegan child?

lockets Sun 15-Apr-12 20:50:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MerryMarigold Sun 15-Apr-12 20:51:06

Tbh, it is rare in this day and age that the kids get to eat the cake at the party! Good on them. So often these days, the cake is just slipped into the party bag. So maybe the Mum was taken off guard with that, and was planning to quietly bin the cake after the party! Just as well she came prepared.

DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 20:51:17

No, she didn't make a scene, admittedly, and she had told the hosts in advance because they were discussing it with her. However, it still seems really odd to me.

CremeEggThief Sun 15-Apr-12 20:51:22

YABU and you have a very strange idea of what is rude!

You are the rude one for judging someone who came prepared and organised so harshly.

SeaHouses Sun 15-Apr-12 20:51:51

Why is it odd?

TheThingUpstairs Sun 15-Apr-12 20:52:35

YABU, seems like a sensible solution.

holidaywoe Sun 15-Apr-12 20:53:28

Just a personal opinion but I dont agree with children being brought up on a vegetarian/vegan diet if they choose later then so be it.

Procrastinating Sun 15-Apr-12 20:53:39

OP, we all 'inflict' our beliefs on our children. I'm guessing you 'inflict' meat eating on yours.

lolajane2009 Sun 15-Apr-12 20:54:54

tbh your response sounds odd imo

BornToFolk Sun 15-Apr-12 20:55:26

Why is it odd Doozer?

DS is vegetarian and, at 4.5 years old, is more than capable of asking what does or doesn't contain meat. He's better than me actually, at the last party we went to, I put a ham sandwich on his plate and he pointed it out to me! grin

MightyNice Sun 15-Apr-12 20:56:03

thank you for making me feel mentally normal OP

why did you think it was 'rude'?

mamalovesmojitos Sun 15-Apr-12 20:56:34

YABVU. The mum was organised and prepared- I fail to see the problem confused.

You sound incredibly judgy and seem to be gleeful at the thought of her dc 'rebelling' and almost getting their own back by eating bacon sandwiches in the future. Well those children may never eat meat and so what? It's probably not that healthy for them anyway (and I say this as a happy carnivore). their parent is not punishing them.

Metabilis3 Sun 15-Apr-12 20:56:34

@dozer YABVVVVVVVVU

BornToFolk Sun 15-Apr-12 20:57:06

Oh, and we all make choices about what we feed our children. My choice is that I won't feed DS meat and will ask others to do the same. If he decides to eat meat when he's older, of course he can. I won't buy or cook it though! He doesn't want to yet though.

Metabilis3 Sun 15-Apr-12 20:57:26

@Dozer ah, I see. You don't like Vegans.

lockets Sun 15-Apr-12 20:57:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 20:59:42

Yes, I know we all inflict our beliefs. I suppose I just think being vegan is really extreme and giving her DC different food instead of the party cake is just mean to everyone. I asked her what she eats for cake at home and she said she can make a sponge cake. How? Without eggs?

Pippinintherain Sun 15-Apr-12 21:00:06

They are no more forcing being a vegetarian on the child than I am forcing meat eating on my child.

YABU, she was perfectley sensible.

sixlostmonkeys Sun 15-Apr-12 21:00:45

So it's ok to 'inflict' meat-eating on children but not to 'inflict' non-meat-eating??

To say you don't agree with children being brought up vegetarian or vegan is crackers. OK, we can all have an opinion, but please think this through. How would you react if I was to say it's my opinion that children shouldn't be brought up eating meat.

oh and Op yes, yabu

lockets Sun 15-Apr-12 21:01:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PickleSarnie Sun 15-Apr-12 21:01:19

Yabu. Why on earth would anyone actually prefer vegan food to non-vegan food?!

Pippinintherain Sun 15-Apr-12 21:01:43

She probably thinks meat eating is extreme.

LydiaWickham Sun 15-Apr-12 21:02:06

Sooo, she knew in advance that there would be food her DCs couldn't have, had discussed with the host in advance to make it clear that she didn't expect the host to pay for alternatives and would bring her own - I think she handled that increadibly well, she made sure her DCs didn't go without treats, she avoided the host feeling like she had to provide vegan foods, she explained what she would do in advance so the host didn't feel 'on the spot' when she realised what she was providing couldn't be eaten by the vegan DCs (I'd have panicked at that point if I didn't know what the mum was planning on doing!), no one felt left out or embarrassed.

The only way she could avoided taking separate treats as far as I can see is to either make the host feed all the guests vegan food (now that would have been proper rude), or to tell her DCs they could stop being vegans for the day (bit insulting to her beliefs to think you can just give up for the day because it's someone's party), or she should stop her DCs going to parties. Which would you think would be best?

BornToFolk Sun 15-Apr-12 21:02:17
D0oinMeCleanin Sun 15-Apr-12 21:03:03

Why is mean to everyone? How? confused

MN is odd today.

Veganism is thought to be healthier than meat eating, no? Less saturated fat and by default more fruit and veg and more variety of fruit and veg, pulses etc. How awful that much is to inflict a healthy diet on her child.

Metabilis3 Sun 15-Apr-12 21:03:22

@Dozer better vegan than intolerant or ignorant though, eh? I don't do baking myself but I have recipe books with scores of vegan cake recipes. Just because you don't know how to do it, just because I don't know how to do it, doesn't mean it can't be done.

thenightsky Sun 15-Apr-12 21:03:38

Why you take such pleasure from thinking her kid will rebel and eat bacon sandwiches is beyond me. DS has been vegetarian all his life and wouldn't touch meat even now, at the age of 20 years. In fact he has become stricter as he's got older and informed himself.

You sound really rather sheltered tbh, I'm not saying that in a shitty way. It's just quite funny, to think that the idea of a cake without egg is so hard to imagine.

YABU but I guess you know that now... I'm sure her DC will get over it, as will the rest of them deprived of vegan goodies.

lockets Sun 15-Apr-12 21:04:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

holidaywoe Sun 15-Apr-12 21:04:36

Of course they are inforcing being a vegetarian as they are not giving the option of eating meat and other animal products. At a young age children should have the opportunity to experience a variety of different tastes and textures(unless there is an allergy) This however is off topic from the original thread

Fedupateaster Sun 15-Apr-12 21:04:51

You can buy vegan egg replacer and with practice it makes lovely sponge cake. My eldest DC is allergic to egg, so I know how much practice you need

DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 21:04:59

OK, I sent a Facebook message to the hostess earlier thanking her for inviting DS to the party. I said I thought the vegan thing was odd. I've now received a reply and apparently she knew the DC were vegan and put vegan sweets in their party bags and the vegan mum did bring enough lollies to share if anyone else wanted one. To be fair, she (the hostess) doesn't seem bothered by it. I think they've known each other for a while.

OK, SO IABU.

I would still be annoyed if it happened at a party I was hosting though. I can see I'm clearly in the minority!

rainbowinthesky Sun 15-Apr-12 21:05:35

Yabu. I take dd food to parties and often the other children look with envy to what she is eating but she would much prefer to be able to eat the food they eat. She accepts she can't though just like to other children accept they arent going to get to eat her food.

Lostinroseland Sun 15-Apr-12 21:05:38

My dc is dairy intolerant. I take sandwiches/a little cake to most parties as I don't expect the hosts to cater for him.

I think you are being very unreasonable

libelulle Sun 15-Apr-12 21:05:43

Of course you're being unreasonable, and yes you can make a rather good cake without eggs or dairy, my dm made one for my dd for her birthday because she forgot that she was only allergic to dairy and not eggssmile I had a second helping.

Can I hijack for a moment? In response to previous comments re warning party organisers of dietary issues. I usually don't mention that my dd has a dairy allergy in advance of parties where I don't know the parents, because I don't want them to feel that they should go to any special trouble. I quietly bring alternative treats on the assumption that dd won't be able to eat the cake and some of the party foods. It's always seemed to me that it would be ruder to say 'dd is allergic to dairy, so cater for her please or why else would I be mentioning it' than just to make our own food arrangements, without fuss. AIBU?!

SuePurblyBusinesslike Sun 15-Apr-12 21:05:44

Mean to everyone <larfs> So you do want the inflicted vegan-tainted food then?
Carob for all! <scatters lollies>

lockets Sun 15-Apr-12 21:06:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

D0oinMeCleanin Sun 15-Apr-12 21:06:31

My children are deprived of offal products because I cannot stand to touch or smell them. They appear happy enough.

megapixels Sun 15-Apr-12 21:06:38

YABU of course. And please do stop all this guff about feeling sorry for the child. It's not strengthening your case in any way.

rainbowinthesky Sun 15-Apr-12 21:06:48

You actually sent a message to the party mother saying you thought the other mother was odd?? FB really does seem to be pretty dire.

Judd Sun 15-Apr-12 21:07:20

I've just dug out my vegan cake recipe to check what is instead of eggs. There is a bit of vinegar, some water and some olive oil. It is lovely ! HTH.

lockets Sun 15-Apr-12 21:07:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

upahill Sun 15-Apr-12 21:08:05

I just don't get WHY you would be annoyed though? confused

MightyNice Sun 15-Apr-12 21:08:09

hmm

is it me or are there multiple weird threads everywhere at the moment?

D0oinMeCleanin Sun 15-Apr-12 21:08:29

You sent a message stating you thought the hosts friend was odd? shock

Do you have many friends, OP?

StrandedBear Sun 15-Apr-12 21:08:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LydiaWickham Sun 15-Apr-12 21:08:37

Dozer - how '1950s' is the place you live that just being a vegan is seen as 'really extreme'???

mynewpassion Sun 15-Apr-12 21:08:37

I guess then that you will not be inviting this child to your DC's birthday parties because of your intolerance.

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 21:09:19

I cannot believe how cheeky you were OP, Sending that FB message.

I think you're the odd one.

DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 21:09:36

No, the DC won't be invited to my DS's parties because we don't know each other.

DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 21:10:39

That was just a tiny bit of the Facebook message. I just said that I hadn't come across it before and thought it was odd. I asked if it had put her (the hostess out). She said it hadn't. We chatted about other things too!

lockets Sun 15-Apr-12 21:10:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

startail Sun 15-Apr-12 21:10:55

YABU
Allergic DCs, diabetic DCs and Veggi DCs are going to be given things out of their Mums pockets, because it would be far ruder to expect the host to buy expensive alternative treats for all the guests.

mynewpassion Sun 15-Apr-12 21:10:58

Thank the good Lord! They are spared from your intolerance.

LydiaWickham Sun 15-Apr-12 21:11:01

Sorry, just seen, you sent a message to the host slagging off another parent? Really, that was so rude.

lockets Sun 15-Apr-12 21:11:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

upahill Sun 15-Apr-12 21:11:42

So mum and child have no connection to you but you slag her off and then FB a message to her friend slagging her?
even more confused and a lot hmm

DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 21:12:07

I didn't slag her off. I'm paraphrasing massively, to get to the point.

rainbowinthesky Sun 15-Apr-12 21:12:26

How on earth could it have possible put the host out?? You were trying to get her to join in with you to slag her off.

5madthings Sun 15-Apr-12 21:13:06

yabu unreasonable i have plenty of friends that do this as they are vegetarian or their kids have allergies, at ds4' party recently i checked with a friend as i know her ds is allergic and made sure the biscuits i got where ones he could eat and she provided a little cake to go in his party bag as he couldnt eat the birthday cake, it didnt bother me at all, why on earth should it!

KatieMiddleton Sun 15-Apr-12 21:13:36

Wow. You're odd. Do you get out much? Or do you only know people exactly like you? I cannot imagine another reason why you would think being a vegan is strange. It's not like the kids only allowed to eat white food that's greater than 6cm in diameter is it?

Sounds like the vegan DM did absolutely everything she possibly could to make her choices painless for others. She brought spare snacks, warned the hosts etc. Should your AIBU really read, "AIBU for thinking vegans are weird and not liking them?"?

Newsflash: Mum brings own treat to party so host doesn't have to go to trouble to find something suitable for restricted diet.

It's none of your fucking business whether it put the host out, or not. Butt out!

LydiaWickham Sun 15-Apr-12 21:15:23

Libelulle - if I'm honest, I'd prefer to know in advance that your dd is dairy intolerant but that you'll be bringing your own food, I might find out from someone else and then cater dairy free, or then feel bad that I should have known (silly if you didn't say, but I have that fear of not being a good hostess).

MightyNice Sun 15-Apr-12 21:16:23

still don't understand how it was rude though

how was it rude OP, in your mind?

Helltotheno Sun 15-Apr-12 21:16:49

OP you need to get out and about more. Seriously, broaden your horizons.. hmm

Tiptoptoe Sun 15-Apr-12 21:16:56

Wow Doozer, I have seen some odd threads today but yours and your self-righteous, judgemental attitude really does take the cake. Then just to round off your wonderful ways, you slag off chat about another Mum to the host? You like conflict and drama by chance?

LydiaWickham Sun 15-Apr-12 21:17:26

How could it put the host out? The host didn't have to bring other food, she knew this so didn't worry and cater, and if anyone else wanted the vegan food, there was spares to stop tantrums. Seems the host couldn't be put out in any possible way, unless she feels strongly that all DCs should eat meat.

wigglesrock Sun 15-Apr-12 21:17:41

YABVU - when dd1 had her first and only party at soft play. A mum did exactly as the other Mum did. I was aware that he had a restricted diet so before the party I asked her if I could do anything to make it "easier" for him and she said it was fine, she always brought some special treats with her for him. I didn't even bat an eyelid.

I had a special party bag for him but it really really wouldn't bother me, and I can be a bit narky sometimes.

I'm not even going to mention the Facebook comment because I find you commenting on another parents behaviour on FB really rude.

5madthings Sun 15-Apr-12 21:18:24

bloody hell just read the thread and realised you messaged the party host and mentioned the vegan thing and said it was odd!

and the vegan mum brought enouhg lollies for everyone, which she didnt have to do and was very kind of her!!!

you are sooo sooo being unreasonable!

Shakirasma Sun 15-Apr-12 21:18:47

No matter how hard I try, I just cannot see why anyone would think it odd.

As a burger loving meat eater with omnivore kids, I simply cannot understand why this is an issue worthy of note or headspace.

MissFenella Sun 15-Apr-12 21:19:15

I agree with Upahill - why do you even care? May I suggest you find a healthy pastime to stop you fretting over other people's dietary choices.

usualsuspect Sun 15-Apr-12 21:19:33

Nice first post

Proudnscary Sun 15-Apr-12 21:21:43

OP, you fool, you should have embellished the truth and said:

'So this vegan mother pulled out a chocolate vegan lollipop and said loudly, with a face like thunder: "Here you are dc, since THE HORRIBLE LADY HASN'T CATERED FOR YOU I GUESS YOU'LL HAVE TO EAT THIS". Then she marched her dc out of the party.'

That's what everyone else does with these threads. It's Mumsnet 101...

DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 21:21:45

It's not my first post. It just is under the name.

Terry Wogan's cock, Pombears, MN scarf etc, etc.

D0oinMeCleanin Sun 15-Apr-12 21:23:31

So you NC for this thread? Is that because you knew you were BU but fancied some drama?

upahill Sun 15-Apr-12 21:23:34

I find it really odd when people seen to take a rather strange almost unhealthy interest as to why I am a vegetarian- as if I am wrong and they want to prove that point and they go on and on asking questions and making out I'm weird.
My usual answer now is 'I just am and it suits me'
OP you sound like one of these people that gets on my tits.

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 21:23:34

May I suggest you find a healthy pastime to stop you fretting over other people's dietary choices.

Yes OP, You could take up Vegan baking. smile

MissBetsyTrotwood Sun 15-Apr-12 21:23:46

ROFL @ vegans being 'extreme'.

I am currently finding and enjoying the last crumbs of a delicious Orange and Cinnamon Cake we bought today. It was... VEGAN! Made... WITHOUT EGGS! Look at this OP - I've tried some of the recipes here for a vegan friend and they've all worked beautifully.

(Yabvu btw.)

KatieMiddleton Sun 15-Apr-12 21:24:33

Actually YANBU. Apparently vegans are on the Watch List with the other extremists #trufact

Tiptoptoe Sun 15-Apr-12 21:24:46

I just want to say that you said you didnt slag the vegan Mum off but your intention was to mention it in the hopes the host Mum would say "oh yes, how strange was she". If you thought for one minute the host Mum would say "uuuuh no, I find it strange that you find it strange and you are judgemental" - you would not have mentioned it.

That is attempting to slag off the other mother - no matter how you put it. You were just not successful at it.

QuacksForDoughnuts Sun 15-Apr-12 21:25:22

My favourite cake recipe. My other favourite (the one that pretends to be healthy!) Incidentally I've made these several times as birthday cakes and the like for people who aren't vegan. My cheese-loving OH and carnivorous family eat it quite happily without screwing up their faces in disgust, which rather disproves the idea that veganism confers an automatic yucky taste. wink

YABU. She wasn't making any demands on anyone, she wasn't making a scene, she was making sure her kid/s got something and weren't let out. I dread to think how you'd deal with actual rudeness, OP! I would rather host someone who can communicate with me and sort certain things out for themselves if necessary than someone who will stand around making cats bum faces at the other guests and message me to say my friends are weirdos...

DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 21:25:56

D0oin, no I don't fancy drama. I was interested to know other people's opinions on this. I namechanged for no reason, other than I fancied a change.

nizlopi Sun 15-Apr-12 21:26:06

I bet the host and her friend are having a right laugh about you right now. You quiz the vegan lady at the party and then quiz the host later on? You sound demented.

Otoh at a party ds went to recently, the lovely mum did pass the parcel with gelatine free sweets and a little plate of veggie sausages for him. I have lovely openminded friends. Tbh I thinks its yuk to just feed one's dcs meat and not actually consider the alternatives. Can't see why in this modern age anyone thinks tucking into a plate of flesh is better. I have never ever said that outloud before, just feeling a bit provoked.

lockets Sun 15-Apr-12 21:27:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

upahill Sun 15-Apr-12 21:28:56

Yeah but you still haven't said why you would be annoyed if it happened to be at a party you host.

Is it odd that I take my own burgers to a BBQ save the host catering for my needs/wants?

Is odd that I take a vegetarian wine to a party?

DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 21:29:25

lockets I'd rather see the DC tucking into the same cakes as every other child there!

shesparkles Sun 15-Apr-12 21:29:46

Doozer, out of interest, how do you think veganmum should have dealt with the matter?

mynewpassion Sun 15-Apr-12 21:30:37

I wonder if the OP will do an extensive background check on all the children before inviting them to her DC's parties. They can't have allergies; they can't be lactose intolerant; they can't be vegans or vegetarians; they have to like what she is providing for food, drinks, snacks, and party favors.

Its her way or the highway, meaning no invite.

shesparkles Sun 15-Apr-12 21:30:59

.... Given that non vegan cake wasn't an option

PatriciaHolm Sun 15-Apr-12 21:31:08

Have you seriously never met a vegan before? Where do you live - Daily Mail Island?!!

DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 21:31:11

upahill, I said I think it's rude because it's rejecting the food that the host had paid for and the softplay place had provided for no good reason IMO. Also the other DC at the party might have prefered what the vegan DC had. It could have caused a problem. You don't risk causing a problem at someone's party.

EllenJaneisnotmyname Sun 15-Apr-12 21:31:16

Are you just anti - vegan then?

upahill Sun 15-Apr-12 21:31:21

But what if the child was Muslim and mum took some halal stuff for him so he could eat at the same time as the rest of his mates if the rest of them were eating non halal stuff?
Would you critize her as well?

KatieMiddleton Sun 15-Apr-12 21:31:55

Yes Op. You are quite right. We should all be Exactly The Same.

Same colour, same clothes, same hair, same religion, same politics, same morals, same ideologies, same car...

CremeEggThief Sun 15-Apr-12 21:32:26

I already said I thought you are the rude one, OP. Your subsequent posts have just reinforced my original opinion.

Here, have a nice, vegan biscuit.

rhondajean Sun 15-Apr-12 21:32:51

Yes woe betide anyone should be - hushed tones now - different!

lockets Sun 15-Apr-12 21:33:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Calamityboo Sun 15-Apr-12 21:33:15

not surprised notactually did you not realise that in RL narrow minded judgy pants people were not only judging you but were (unsucessfully) inviting others to judge you on FB. We are meat eaters, and we also know vegetarians too, (no vegan though) and I always make sure there is food for them when i do a party (and would try to do it for vegan or other dietry requirements if I could) cos I am a suck up

upahill Sun 15-Apr-12 21:33:15

It is a good reason though.
They are vegan so not in a position to eat everything that was there.
It was of no consequence to the soft play or the host so what is the problem.

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 21:33:47

For no good reason?

I despair, I really do.

LydiaWickham Sun 15-Apr-12 21:33:52

Oh I see, you don't have a problem with the way she handled it, you have a problem with a vegan parent not compromising their beliefs in order to fit in with everyone else.

She's vegan, her DCs are vegan, the food wasn't vegan so they couldn't eat it, why isn't that an acceptable reason to reject it? confused

SuePurblyBusinesslike Sun 15-Apr-12 21:33:58

HAhahahahhahaha at 'rejecting the host and soft play's food'. You never seen the table after a children's party then? Ground in sandwiches, crisps and Iced Gems as far as the eye can see - all rejected. Some chewed then rejected.

But you're right. She should have put aside her moral/health/whatever choice and fitted in, in case some other child wanted a suck of a carob lolly and - HEAVENS - had to be told no.

mynewpassion Sun 15-Apr-12 21:34:31

Well, I am pretty sure that the hostess didn't just provide food for the vegan child while your child and the rest of the other children had to pay for your own. I am sure that the kids ate enough to cover the cost of the vegan child not eating the cake.

PatriciaHolm Sun 15-Apr-12 21:34:41

"I'd rather see the DC tucking into the same cakes as every other child there!"

but that never happens anyway! There is always a child who doesn't like chocolate cake/prefers biscuits/is too full/only eats icing....etc, so you never get an entire parties' worth of children all peacefully eating the same thing, and they certainly don't care. Several of DD's classmates can't have Haribo; at parties, if Haribo is given out, they are given something different, no children comment or even care that they have something different. Fortunately, the average 5/6/7 yr old is far more tolerant that you are, OP!

EllenJaneisnotmyname Sun 15-Apr-12 21:34:56

So, when I brought my own gluten free cake for my DS to a party for him, was I being rude? He was on a strict gluten free diet as a trial, he needed to be GF for 6 months. Should I just have abandoned it in case his GF cake looked nicer than the birthday cake? You are beyond belief.

Oooh calamity I shall pay more attentiom to the whispers when I enter a room with my party going child!

KatieMiddleton Sun 15-Apr-12 21:35:16

The more I think about this the more I agree with the Op. That child should have been punished. Fancy being something as exotic as a vegan and then being out in public rubbing people's faces in it.

Metabilis3 Sun 15-Apr-12 21:35:34

@Doozer it's not no good reason

You really are a ridiculous stereotype.

Jinsei Sun 15-Apr-12 21:36:30

Of course they are inforcing being a vegetarian as they are not giving the option of eating meat and other animal products. At a young age children should have the opportunity to experience a variety of different tastes and textures(unless there is an allergy)

I don't feed my daughter meat, as I don't eat it or cook it myself, and neither does DH. We both used to be vegetarian but have eaten fish since before dd was born, so she eats fish too. I don't regard meat as being particularly healthy, so why would I rush out and buy it for dd?

I have always told her that she is free to eat meat outside the home ie in school or at friends' houses if she so chooses. I don't have strong feelings about it and wouldn't really mind if she chose to eat meat when she is older or not. So far, however, she prefers to stay "pescatarian".

Am I inflicting this diet on her? To an extent, yes, but it is her choice too. And we all inflict our own dietary choices on our children, don't we? I don't feed dd beetroot, for example, because I can't stand the sight of it. I am guessing that you probably don't feed your child dog meat, because you wouldn't eat it yourself. That isn't denying your child the opportunity to try something different, it's just common sense.

If I were still a vegetarian, I would feed vegetarian food to my child. If I was a meat-eater, I would feed her meat. If I were a vegan, I'd feed her vegan food. It's very simple. BTW, DH was brought up as a vegetarian and is the only one of his siblings who eats fish, let alone meat. So veggie kids don't always rebel when they are older. And although my eating habits are different from those of my carnivorous parents, I don't regard that as a rebellion either. grin

OP, well done for admitting that you were BU, but I do find it very weird that you commented on such a non-issue on FB. confused

Tiptoptoe Sun 15-Apr-12 21:37:13

No good reason? As decided by who? You do realise that there are many different diets out there of which vegans are very normal. In some parts of the world, dog and rat could have been served? Would it be rude to reject this if the host had paid for it? Sorry Doozer but I find you very narrow minded.

LibrarianByDay Sun 15-Apr-12 21:37:54

YABVU and I would suggest you are the rude mother here. Fancy asking the party host whether she was put out by another mum's choices. What could you have done if she was other than gossiped about the vegan mum?

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 21:38:00

Yes Katie, He should be normal.

5madthings Sun 15-Apr-12 21:38:15

but you said the the vegan mum brought with her enough lollies for everyone so the other children werent left out, and they had all the regular party food anyway and its not like its a bloody gourmet meal, its normal jam sandwiches, crips, biscuits and a few vegetable sticks at those soft play places!

get a grip, party mum didnt mind and probably now thinks YOU are RUDE and ODD for mentioning it in a message to her when its NONE of your business!

my first ever biscuit

piratecat Sun 15-Apr-12 21:38:43

hahaha @ lockets suggestion of playing the lollies like the spoons. grin

perplexedpirate Sun 15-Apr-12 21:38:55

Another vegan/vegetarian bashing thread, yawn yawn.
Tell you what OP, why don't you write a nice long essay all about why you don't think I should be bringing DS up vegetarian, print it out, fold it up small and then pop it up your bottom. wink

wigglesrock Sun 15-Apr-12 21:39:14

But it didn't cause a problem at the party! The mum whose childs birthday party it was has no problem with it. You do - another childs Mum - I find that a bit over-invested.

My dd1 has been to loads of birthday parties (she's in her third year of Primary School) and she doesn't like cake - well she doesn't like jam and sponge, do you feel sorry for her?, have I made a social faux pas by letting her go to parties where she doesn't eat a lot of the food? - she's not a fan of pizza, iced buns etc.

In answer to someone else's question, I think the OP is anti-vegan, yes.

Hilarious thread, btw, OP. grin Particularly enjoyed the 'Terry Wogan's cock, pombears, etc'.

GrahamTribe Sun 15-Apr-12 21:39:34

No good reason? hmm

Would you say the same if the child didn't eat pork because he was Jewish?

MightyNice Sun 15-Apr-12 21:40:16

STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW IT WAS RUDE THOUGH?

is it rude for people to follow the dietary rules of their religion?

DoozerDrift Sun 15-Apr-12 21:40:58

5madthings, I didn't realise the vegan mum had brought more lollies when I started the thread. I read the hostess's message afterwards.

OK, as I said, I see that IABU. OK!

LydiaWickham Sun 15-Apr-12 21:41:22

MightNice - it seems it is. sad

MightyNice Sun 15-Apr-12 21:41:23

are allergies ok or are they rude too?

TeacupTempest Sun 15-Apr-12 21:41:40

Hilarious! You can not be serious?

LibrarianByDay Sun 15-Apr-12 21:41:47

Also the other DC at the party might have prefered what the vegan DC had. It could have caused a problem. You don't risk causing a problem at someone's party.

Children have to learn to get over such things or, dare I say it, they end up intolerant of other people's choices.

D0oinMeCleanin Sun 15-Apr-12 21:43:00

Dd1 is a weird pain in the arse at parties. She won't eat: Cake, pizza, chips, most sandwhiches, a large variety of crisps. Mainly nothing 'unhealthy' no-one has ever told her she is rude for saying "No, thank you, I don't like that. I'm okay with just the grapes/cheese cubes/apple slices etc"

WorraLiberty Sun 15-Apr-12 21:43:09

Terry Wogan's cock is vegan? shock

Hulababy Sun 15-Apr-12 21:44:16

Can't see a problem tbh.

Happens with children for allergies and intolerances too, again no problem.

I work in a school and we do this also. Children who are veggie/vegan/allergies have special treats brought in and stored at school. Then on an occasion at school when treats are given out (if another child's brought in buns on a bday for ex) we give said child their specific treat.

IME, esp once at school, children are aware of this and aren't bothered.

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 21:44:36

grin Worra.

He likes a bit of quorn porn. wink

Calamityboo Sun 15-Apr-12 21:44:48

You should notactuallyme I bet on the production of a Carob lolly the air is physically sucked out the room with all the judgey pants teeth drying!

lockets Sun 15-Apr-12 21:45:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pigletmania Sun 15-Apr-12 21:45:49

Yabvvvu she was not rude at all. By the sounds of your title I thought tat the mum would be rude to the arty parents about the food, and demand there be vegan cake. What would you prefer, that the vegan boy sat there with nothing whilst the others tucked into treats. I am sure the party arents did to mind one bit

Calamityboo Sun 15-Apr-12 21:45:52

I missed TWC and pombears sad Must read more carefully!

How could it have 'caused a problem'?

Are you always this intolerant of anyone who does anything differently to you?

mynewpassion Sun 15-Apr-12 21:46:48

Oh, now we know what's at the crux of the OP's problem. She wanted a chocolate lolly and was upset that she didn't get one.

Now that takes the cake.

WorraLiberty Sun 15-Apr-12 21:47:15

Lol @ quorn porn grin

I can never work anyone out from their references on here to things like Pom Bears, Wogan's cock or any other bloody thing.

<Thick>

pigletmania Sun 15-Apr-12 21:47:25

By that time the child will be able to choose for themselves wether to be vegan or not op

Metabilis3 Sun 15-Apr-12 21:47:26

@purple Quorn isn't vegan grin

Jinsei Sun 15-Apr-12 21:47:51

season, was that a vegan biscuit?

rhondajean Sun 15-Apr-12 21:48:07

Isn't it meta?

It's at 21.21, Calamity. When the OP is asserting her MN kosherability.

quorn contains egg, so no, it isn't vegan

Metabilis3 Sun 15-Apr-12 21:49:39

@rhondajean nope. Eggs are involved.

exoticfruits Sun 15-Apr-12 21:50:11

I don't see a problem. It only happens when they are small-later on the mother won't be around and the DC can choose for themselves whether they want to be vegan.

GrahamTribe Sun 15-Apr-12 21:50:14

Quorn contains egg, which is why it's not vegan.

rhondajean Sun 15-Apr-12 21:50:59

I didn't realise. So gla I didnt try to serve it to my friend...

I found in my veggie years it gave me a hippy tummy. And tofu sometimes.

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 21:51:53

blush How ignorant of me. Of course Terry cock doesn't contain eggs.

OP I actually completely understand how upsetting it must have been for you.

This one time, I was at a Mother & Toddler Group and I pulled out a bottle for my three week old baby. Of course, the mother sat next to me pulled out her tits and started to breastfeed her baby!! How dare she be so selfish? My darling-child started screeeeeeeaming because, of course, she now wanted the tit too! Luckily, she'd come prepared, and had two so shared them about with all the other poor kids who didn't have any.

Was your darling-child perhaps the one who threw a hissyfit at not having the lollipop?

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 21:52:22

Terrys

Kewcumber Sun 15-Apr-12 21:53:06

I wish all party guests brought all their own food. Would make tedious catering of parties so much easier.

I think your OP is phrased worngly - what you meant was "AIBU to think childrne should not be vegan and should eat whatever they are given and lump it"

to answet the OP.

Yabvvvvvvvu!!!

we are vegetarian, and 2 of my kids can't eat egg/dairy so are basically on a vegan diet.
I often take extra treatrs to parties because it's fucking SHIT for my kids to be invited to parties where there is nothing they can eat.

I've sat and watch my 4 year old hold back tears when I've told him that actually, no, he can't have ANY of the treats on offer

What I do find incredibly rude is people who invite you to their party and make absolutely no effort at all to make sure all their guests have something they can eat.

and unfair to the kids who might prefer what the vegan kids are eating? are you having a fucking laugh? my kids go day in day out being told "no, you can't have that"
and you're worried that one or 2 children might have to be told one time that they can't have what someone else is having? even though they have the pick of all the other food?

snooter Sun 15-Apr-12 21:53:50

Poor kid. At least it got a (probably nasty) lollipop.

rhondajean Sun 15-Apr-12 21:53:56

Is Terry's Cock similar to Terry's Chocolate Orange?

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 21:55:33

It's not Terrys, It's mine...

TiggyD Sun 15-Apr-12 21:55:52

I've been here ages too:

Pass passes for hedgehogs, Des O'Conner's secret ear, Stabbed by a pointy giraffe, Oral sex ruined my carpet, etc.

Metabilis3 Sun 15-Apr-12 21:56:52

@rhonda well, that's not vegan either, so......grin

oh and yes, i make delicious vegan cakes thanks!

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 21:58:53

Des O'Conner's secret ear?

Tiggy I beg of you, Explain this!

TiggyD Sun 15-Apr-12 22:02:43

You must have missed that thread Purple.

Pixel Sun 15-Apr-12 22:09:12

At least she took alternative food. At dd's 5th birthday party I had no idea that one of the little guests was vegan until her parents dropped her off and casually mentioned it before they legged it. Luckily it was a supervised party at a soft play centre so I was able to nip out and try and find --anything at all- something nice for her to eat. We were in a shopping mall so the only likely place I could find was Boots the chemist. Poor kid had very strange assortment of snacks!

WorraLiberty Sun 15-Apr-12 22:11:37

Is Terry's Cock similar to Terry's Chocolate Orange?

I'd tap it and unwrap it

But to be honest, I don't want to find out shock

Metabilis3 Sun 15-Apr-12 22:13:25

@pixel I find that.......odd. Every vegan I know (and obviously, as a vegan myself I do know quite a few others. We seek each other out. Like the freaks of nature we are) is VERY careful to make sure that party hosts know their children are vegan, so as to avoid the children being given wrong food. I find it very difficult to believe any vegan parent would not tell a par host this pretty vital information until drop off and then 'leg it's immediately.

MightyNice Sun 15-Apr-12 22:13:34

I would rather have a mouthful of Wogan's cock than any orangey chocolate thing, yuk.

Pixel Sun 15-Apr-12 22:16:11

Well I'm not making it up hmm.

TiggyD Sun 15-Apr-12 22:17:00

Terry Wogan's cock. Not suitable for vegans.

azzae Sun 15-Apr-12 22:17:55

YABQU - often I find the hosts are grateful for an alternative rather than a child being left out - I often take a few vegan cupcakes to parties as my son has a dairy and egg allergy. Often I dont want to inconvenience a host by demanding vega / allergy appropriate treats so will usually mention that I'll bring cupcakes....

squeakytoy Sun 15-Apr-12 22:26:20

I am going to disagree with the vast majority here, and say that the child should be allowed to eat whatever the heck they like at a party.

Veganism is not a choice that the child has actively made, nor is it a dietary requirement that is to safeguard their health, nor is it a relgious issue, so whilst it is fair enough that the mother enforces a vegan diet in her own home, why on earth should the child have to miss out and feel different though no choice of their own.

SodoffBaldrick Sun 15-Apr-12 22:28:44

Wow. Just wow.

I could never be a vegan in a million years, but you are being so unreasonable it's untrue. confused

First of all, I know someone who has two girls who are hyper-allergic to eggs. Amazingly, she is able to bake all manner of yummy things without eggs.

And, no good reason? I actually have way more respect for vegans than I do for most vegetarians, when they take their position against animal cruelty issues to the logical extreme and cut ALL animal products out of their diet. Do you have any idea of the cruelty involved in the diary industry, and what happens to male calves - you know, the useless ones, who can't produce milk? And battery farming for eggs?

You basically just don't agree with someone living their life a certain way and are looking for a reason to be all cat's-bum-mouth about this. The vegan Mum could not have been less rude if she tried.

The only way this whole issue could have been resolved to your satisfaction was if that family had stopped being vegan...! Admit it!!

YABU. I take sachets of salad cream stolen from other restaurants for my DS who's ketchup allergic.

Why is it OK for the children who doesn't eat a food for a certain reason be be 'left out' but they can't have an alternative for fear of upsetting another child.

Madness.

SodoffBaldrick Sun 15-Apr-12 22:34:12

Squeakytoy, maybe it's a moral issue?

Who is anyone else to say someone else's decision about the way their raise their children is OK or not?

kipperandtiger Sun 15-Apr-12 22:35:06

I think it's totally ok for children on different diets to have different things brought along for them. We have friends and classmates at parties all the time who are allergic to different things. In fact, I would think it was an inconvenience for the child's parents and try to help where possible. I do always try to provide for a good friend's DC who is allergic to dairy and egg, though the bill can get a bit expensive sometimes - but for a good friend I'm happy to do this. I would be equally happy for kids on kosher/halal diets to bring their own, if what was on offer might break any religious rules. Likewise for vegan diets.

SodoffBaldrick Sun 15-Apr-12 22:35:56

Wow - can't believe I am sticking up for veganism. grin

smokinaces Sun 15-Apr-12 22:36:35

Yabu. Ds2 is lactose intollerant so I always have a stash of sweets etc for parties to swap party bag treats or instead of ice cream. Would never want to inconviencee anyone, but he can't have the stuff on offer.

exoticfruits Sun 15-Apr-12 22:37:00

Had she actually said that she was bringing her up as a vegan? I would have produced food for her-if not an alternative seems sensible.

squeakytoy Sun 15-Apr-12 22:37:36

Nobody can say, but I do feel that it is very unfair to force your ethical beliefs on a child that is too young to understand why they cant join in with everyone else.

Fine, at home, eat vegan food that the parents have cooked, but allow the child to make their own mind up about being a vegan when they are old enough to, and let them eat the same food as everyone else outside of the house, if that is what they want to try.

I think it is unfair that a child has to miss out on things for no reason other than the personal ethics of their parents.

SuePurblyBusinesslike Sun 15-Apr-12 22:39:56

My child has to miss out on bullfighting and the products of Nestle because of my beliefs. But I should prolly let them join in with everyone else - that's the best way. They can choose not to go bullfighting when they're 18. Until then, let the crowd of random strangers guide their choices - much better.

SodoffBaldrick Sun 15-Apr-12 22:40:12

Oh yeah, the personal ethics of the parents, that old piffle... grin

The kid had a chocolate lollipop. I don't think that quite comes under the deprivation umbrella.

kipperandtiger Sun 15-Apr-12 22:42:57

I think the main thing is that the poor child doesn't go hungry! I don't think other kids care for a minute what someone else is eating - parties generally have plenty of food and treats on offer for everyone. Have never ever witnessed any child asking if they can have what X is eating instead of all the goodies on offer. And have been at plenty of parties! And most hosts don't really care what kids eat or don't eat, as long as everyone is more or less having a good time, didn't injure themselves, break any furniture, fight or get taken ill..... and nobody throwing up is also a bonus.

squeakytoy Sun 15-Apr-12 22:43:18

It is singling the child out amongst their peers though. It is forcing the child to be different.

LibrarianByDay Sun 15-Apr-12 22:45:02

Squeakytoy - and that is bad because ... ?

squeakytoy Sun 15-Apr-12 22:45:46

Because the child appears to have no choice of their own.

rhondajean Sun 15-Apr-12 22:46:44

Surely one of the duties of a parent is to instil a moral compass in your children, ie to teach them your ethical beliefs?

yy, i baked it myself without actual eggs, extremist that i am jisei grin

is it just me waiting for said vegan mother to turn up on this thread, playing the spoons with said lollies? <doffs cap to lockets>

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 22:47:23

I believe parents do it because like all parents they feel it is best for their children squeaky.

As I said up thread being vegan is the norm for these children so I doubt they feel they are missing out.

my children are not old enough to make their own choices. ergo, i make them for them.
i am sure you do the same squeakytoy?

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 22:49:26

I'm sure my sons peers will choose to do things I will not allow my son to do if I don't think it's best for him.

Vegans are passing their morals onto their children. We all do!

smokinaces Sun 15-Apr-12 22:49:51

But why is making a child eat meat until they can make a decision for themselves better than making them not eat it until they make their own decision? Who made the nonvegan way the way a toddler "should" eat? (Very much a non vegan myself)

ErikNorseman Sun 15-Apr-12 22:50:50

This thread is fantastic! I have never seen the like on MN before!

I have nothing more to add as it has all been said so well. YABU.

LibrarianByDay Sun 15-Apr-12 22:51:54

If I gave my child a free choice, she would eat chocolate all day and nothing else. Obviously I am a terrible mother for insisting she eat some fruit and vegetables - forcing my view that such things are healthy on her.

squeakytoy so you think its cool for parents to decide what a child does or doesn't eat if it's down to a 'religious issue'? i'm genuinely unclear how that differs from making an ethical choice about not want their family's lifestyle/diet to harm fluffy animals.

ErikNorseman Sun 15-Apr-12 22:54:36

It's only carnivores who ever think that bringing children up veggie/vegan is inflicting dietary choices on them and completely fail to see that bringing them up carnivore is also inflicting dietary. Choices on them...

I am so grateful I was raised vegetarian. 31 years and never (knowingly or intentionally) eaten meat. Nor have any of my 4 brothers and we all feel the same- relieved we were raised this way. Not deprived and certainly not rebelliously shovelling in bacon sarnies <Vom>

erik 40 years without a bacon sarnie rebellion here too grin

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 22:57:12

Oi Erik! There are actually some carnivores sticking up for you leaf eaters here! grin

kipperandtiger Sun 15-Apr-12 22:58:37

What about the parents who choose to have foie gras / sharksfin / endangered cod /rare beef or steak tartare / veal on the menu for their kids eg at dinner parties or restaurants..... that's not vegan but any of those options could equally be contentious. Parents are making choices on behalf of their kids all the time. We once discussed (among a few mums) whether it was "wrong" for children's dinner to consist of just sausage rolls or baked beans on toast (not just for a party but once a fortnight or something fairly regularly). If a vegan diet is balanced, it's no worse than the above meal, in fact, better. I don't really care if parents are vegan or not - I think there's a big difference between kids who eat restricted but balanced/nutritious diets versus kids who are subjected to takeaway burger meals every night. Or children who are living in conditions of poverty.

kipperandtiger Sun 15-Apr-12 22:59:35

Ditto PurpleRomanesco's 22:57:12 post, lol.

GrahamTribe Sun 15-Apr-12 22:59:57

Apply that to other issues squeaky, like, for example, an ethical decision to send a child to a church school (and I mean ethical, not necessarily religious) or to an independent one. Or not to give your child sweets or Nestle products. What I'm saying is we all make choices for and on the behalf of our DC, some of them ethical. Should we not be doing that because it's "unfair"?

ErikNorseman Sun 15-Apr-12 23:00:19

I know purple smile (very veggie friendly name!) that's why I was so blown away by the thread! There is only in fact one carnie saying that old 'inflicting your habits' argument which is who I was referring to.

purple all you carnivores have actually made me a bit moist-eyed with your defence of the vegan! i can't work out if this is a typical view or just because the MN mean IQ is higher than the average Joe's tho.

maddening Sun 15-Apr-12 23:03:45

yab ridiculous

YABU - she didnt make a big deal out of it and the child had an alternitive so i dont see a problem.

kipperandtiger Sun 15-Apr-12 23:06:32

SeasonOfTheWitch - probably just the ones who are logged on to this thread because we found the question compelling to discuss. Speaking as someone who is an omnivore - but who has often pored for hours over menus and shopping for parties, trying to provide for adults and kids alike who are vegetarian, allergic and occasionally halal or kosher. If I was offered a vegan meal that was really delicious, balanced and nutritiously prepared, I'd be more than happy to scoff that down and reject the greasy burgers or roasts on offer. Sadly, many restaurants' vegetarian options are often just carnivore meals with the meat taken out, which is not the same thing at all.

I think I get what squeaky means though. If a child goes to a church school or independent school because of the parent's ethical beliefs those children are not deprived of setting foot in any other school as a one off occasion, say a school production at another school or something. A meat eating child doesn't have to eat meat all the time, and can tuck into a vegetarian or vegan meal at someone else's house, a child who's parents don't have a tv can still watch the odd bit of tv at a friend's house, a child who's parents don't buy barbies or guns or soemthing can still play with these toys at a friend's house.

A child can live a vegan lifestyle at home but have the occasional piece of birthday cake, they won't explode or cease to be able to be vegan at home any more will they? They don't need to be so strict about it that the food becomes something akin to bacon to a muslim, something impure.

Having said all of that, the OP is VVU, the vegan mum didn't do anything odd.

and I have nothing against vegans or veggies and fully respect them. I just wanted to say I understand where squeaky is coming from.

same question that i asked squeaky to you overmydeadbody how does an ethical choice differ from a religious belief?

TryingNotToLoseMyTemper Sun 15-Apr-12 23:10:52

Great thread grin

OP. We all know that it has fuck all to do with you. And what's even funnier, is that you have no idea why you think it was rude, or why it's annoyed you. I know why though...... because it's all utter bobbins and you just wanted to look down your nose at the funny vegan, for some strange reason.

Lol.

rhondajean Sun 15-Apr-12 23:12:10

Nah sorry over, if your belief system is tht vegan ism is the correct way to eat, as far as I am aware the evidence is that a vegan diet can be just as balanced and possibly healthier than an omnivore diet, so why should the family compromise their beliefs basically jsut to make you/ other people feel better?

upahill Sun 15-Apr-12 23:13:07

The thing is the whole post maybe a wind up or it may not - who knows but one thing is for sure there are people who do have the same mindset as the OP when it has got sod all to do with them.
The eating choices of other people do not affect them, in this case she doesn't even know the people involved.

It's like I said before about people quizzing me about being a veggie, sometimes it may be people who I may never meet again. I don't actively go round telling people that I am but if, say on a works training course I have ordered the veggie option people will start talking about it. One thing though, it has always been blokes that have got more and aggressive about why I am and start giving me examples or why I shouldn't be <sigh> Some women just say 'Oh I could never be a veggie' Fair enough! others just say 'Oh how long have you been?' and that is about it.

What I put in my mouth to eat has zero affect on their lives so I don't get why they think they can ram their opinion down my throat (so to speak!!)

SuePurblyBusinesslike Sun 15-Apr-12 23:13:41

But that's the most bonkers reason for a decision ever grin. I'll make a moral choice, but it doesn't matter much if we stick to it. In fact, we prolly shouldn't when we're out or with other people.

What on earth would that teach the child - what we believe is important is only important unless someone else feels differently? In which case, you may as well do as they do - we can do our moral thing at home.

skybluepearl Sun 15-Apr-12 23:15:49

YAB daft

<swoons at sue's way with logic> grin

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 23:18:11

smile

I have a soft spot for veggies and vegans, My best friend growing up turned veggie when she was 11. Trouble is she didn't like any vegetables apart from potatoes and kiwi fruits at a push (I know, I know...) So rather than try to convince her to eat meat like her family tried to do, I spent much of my teens eating veggie foods trying to trying to coax her to eat them as I was convinced she would develop scurvy! grin

Thankfully she loves all sorts of healthy foods now.

Kaekae Sun 15-Apr-12 23:18:58

I think you are being YABU. At my childs party one of the children had a bit of an issue with food, I knew about it as their parent had told me and asked whether it was ok for her to bring along some food she knew her child could eat. In the end I made a platter of various foods and just added some things the child could eat. I don't see why it would bother you really you weren't even the host.

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 23:20:40

Woah, Lot's of X posts!

Sorry.

kipperandtiger Sun 15-Apr-12 23:22:36

V difficult (and brave!) to be a non meat eater if one doesn't like most vegetables/nuts/fruit, but well done to Purple and friend for their efforts!

PurpleRomanesco Sun 15-Apr-12 23:27:18

She was brave! She has come a long way from "Ergh, I'm not eating lettuce. It tastes like crunchy water!" (Me trying to get her to try some iceberg lettuce)

She loves veg now. smile

kipperandtiger Sun 15-Apr-12 23:27:40

I think parents are generally very tolerant about kids' parties, because well, kids are kids, you just want them to have a good time. One mum once brought raisins because her DS liked to snack on them sometimes - that's totally fine, didn't even think about that until now. Might be different if you pulled out a chocolate lollipop out of your handbag/pocket in a Michelin starred restaurant in front of your boss and several important business clients, maybe.....but that's a totally different context.

kipperandtiger Sun 15-Apr-12 23:30:09

Purple - lol! (yes, some of them taste like crunchy water..... esp if intensively farmed?) Excuse me, got to log off now....

Whatmeworry Sun 15-Apr-12 23:32:32

YANBU to be annoyead about peplebringing their own food,YABUtothink anyone else will want to eat the food these sort of people bringgrin

But how is a child vegan.Its the parents' foisting their own beliefs surely?

Metabilis3 Sun 15-Apr-12 23:36:02

@upahill this is my life experience too sad. I have to travel for work, a LOT, and the amount of just plain rude grief I get from some people (work colleagues) overseas is just incredible. And yet some people, from incredibly meaty cultures, are completely lovely about it. And yes, as someone remarked unthread, there is a definite correlation between the intelligence of the person involved and their attitude towards me being a vegan.

we've kind of already had this discussion upthread whatmeworry as others have said: don't nearly all parents 'foist their own beliefs' on their children?

and i'm guessing you've never witnessed non-vegans hoovering up vegan cakes.

they aren't sawdust and cardboard you know, they're usually more like this: www.mscupcake.co.uk/

Of course OP is BU but those who are being anti-vegan/veggie are BU too.

I'd actually like to know what is the age a child is deemed old enough to make these decisions about meat etc

I'm a veggie but I prefer to use soy substitutes and my personal tastes mean I eat a mainly vegan diet. However DH is an ardent carnivore. He pretty much eats meat or fish with every meal. The DCs have always had the option to have meat. Although should add nobody eats pork in our house.

DD1 now eats meat quite regularly, DS will occasionally but only if he's at a friends house etc, DD2 (5) is quite the vegan. As far as I'm concerned this is all her choice. She says no to meat and when she found out why i don't eat certain sweets she said she didn't want them.

I know from other posts I've made on mn others feel I'm inflicting my beliefs on my child, although usually its only the one who choses not to eat meat that I'm supposedly indoctrinating. So when is it that DD decides for herself?

Aribura Mon 16-Apr-12 01:05:09

ffs meat-eaters stop inflicting meat on your children, they should have a choice even though they're like 5 years old. Also stop trying to make them be "healthy" sometimes it should be the child's choice if they just eat pizza all the time. Also if you never feed your child pomegranate YOU ARE DEPRIVING YOUR CHILD OF EXPERIENCING THE TASTE AND TEXTURE OF EVERY FOOD IN THE WORLD STOP FORCING YOUR POMEGRANATE-HATING BELIEFS ON YOUR CHILD.

I knew twats would be along eventually. Well done the first 90% of the thread very proud of you. OP is being insane, especially about the Facebook thing.

mathanxiety Mon 16-Apr-12 01:13:20

I have to force my DCs to eat pretty much everything as they are insanely picky.

SodoffBaldrick Mon 16-Apr-12 01:13:27

It's only 'foisting' when it's other people doing other things, that the person using a loaded word like 'foisting' doesn't agree with, or understand (invariably ignorant about). grin

Under any other circumstances, it's just known as 'raising your children as you see fit'.

sashh Mon 16-Apr-12 05:41:45

I suppose because the vegan diet has been 'inflicted' on the DC, I also feel sorry for them having to ask what's vegan and what isn't. One day mum won't be there with her bag of lollies, then what will they do?!

the same as
Jewish
Hindy
Muslim
Diabetic
Kidney diseased
lots of other dietry restrictions

children do

GeorgiaMay Mon 16-Apr-12 06:01:51

Wouldn't bother me in the least if a parent brought different food for their child, for whatever reason.

Someone asked what happens when the parent is no longer around to make sure the child eats the right food - we had that at DS's 7th birthday party. He has a friend who is Hindu and the whole family are vegan. The boy turned up with his own snacks - fine - ate them then started on the party food. He had pizza, sausages, meringues, everything. I mentioned to him at one point that the pizza had cheese on (in case he didn't realise - ha!) and I didn't think he was supposed to eat it, and he looked me straight in the eye and told me it was fine. I just had to hope he wasn't going to throw up from all the different food!

DS said the boy always swaps his food at school as well - I wonder if the parents know or if I should have said something? (I didn't).

exoticfruits Mon 16-Apr-12 06:39:41

It seems a lot of fuss about something very trivial. The mother thought that cake would have dairy products and so brought an alternative. It is hardly a big problem-the DC will soon be choosing for themselves and if they want to be vegan they will have to do it for themselves in social situations-if they don't want to be vegan they won't need to. Vegans generally manage in an unobtrusive way.

catsrus Mon 16-Apr-12 07:04:08

As for the 'what age do you let your children choose?' question - i was veggie for 23 yrs so mine were brought up veggie but could eat meat as soon as they could make the link between the live animal and what they were eating. I.e. that ham was dead pig. Totally their choice. They all chose to try meat, stayed veggie, then gradually became meat eaters. Because I only cooked veggie at home they tended to eat meat out - as they got older and started to cook they cooked meat. All 3 now eat meat (teens and 20's) but are equally happy with veggie food. They don't think a meal without meat is somehow lacking and they know how to balance food to get the healthiest result.

Two of them keep trying to return to vegetarianism but love the taste of meat so much that they never last long. I now have meat/fish maybe once a week -usually when im out and the fish/meat option is healthier than the veggie. I would love to be able to be vegan but I've never found a good milk substitute for my morning cuppa smile

exoticfruits Mon 16-Apr-12 07:08:47

It isn't a question of 'letting them choose' -they will choose-once they are not with you 100%. Give them what you consider a good start-after that you have no control.

Tee2072 Mon 16-Apr-12 07:15:04

Have I wandered into an alternate reality?

OP: AIBU?
Everyone else: Hell Yes YABU
OP: Ok

::faints::

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Mon 16-Apr-12 07:17:14

YABU. The mum didnt make a big deal out of it- "Oh no Tarquin, we don't eat that cake. That cake is made with the by-products of animals. It's yukky" grin She just gave her child an alternative and everyone was happy.

AutumnSummers Mon 16-Apr-12 07:28:28

You have no right WHATsOEVER to be offended by someone else's Parenting sytles. I think that YOU are rude. And very, very U.

HappyJustToBe Mon 16-Apr-12 07:48:47

YABU.

My parents inflicted meat eating on me and I rebelled at 10. 16 years later I'm still rebelling. Take that, Mum and Dad. Luckily they have three normal children who didn't rebel. I stay the only freak of the family.

People may think she is being a mean mum and making the child, horror of horrors, different but have you considered she may be making the right choice and the masses are wrong? I'm not saying that is the case but the arrogance of your position being the correct one is ridiculous.

halcyondays Mon 16-Apr-12 08:02:10

Yabu

TandB Mon 16-Apr-12 08:45:16

Oh come on, OP. Say what you really mean. You didn't think this woman was rude - you are really scrabbling about for arguments to support that. What you actually wanted to say was "I don't think people should be vegan" and the party "rudeness" was just a vessel for that.

The mum did everything right in terms of avoiding putting anyone to any extra trouble. I am gobsmacked that you actually thought it appropriate to send a message to the host criticising her behaviour. Firstly, it's none of your business and secondly, it puts the host in an awkward position - although it sounds like she handed it well - her reply makes it clear that she has no interest in engaging in gossip about vegan mum. It is a little ironic that you self-righteously assert that vegan mum could have caused difficulties for the host when actually you are the one who did that with your message.

I am vegetarian. DP is not. One of our diets has to be "inflicted" on the DSs. We chose a non-vegetarian diet, so I suppose I could say that DP is inflicting his beliefs on DS1, but it is just a choice, like any other. If the DSs decide to be vegetarian when they are older, that is their choice when they are old enough to make it. I doubt they will as my vegetarianism is not a particularly ethical decision, just a not liking or being able to digest meat decision.

Whatmeworry Mon 16-Apr-12 08:49:11

and i'm guessing you've never witnessed non-vegans hoovering up vegan cakes

That's the Elysian dream, in my experience the norm is more the desperately miserable vegan/veggie/etc kid wanting what all the others are having (and scarfing sweets etc as much as they can once Mummie is out the picture grin )

halcyondays Mon 16-Apr-12 08:55:50

Everyone "foists" a certain kind of diet on their children, as babies and very young dc aren't old enough to decide for themselves what they should eat the whole time, it would be impossible not to. If we didn't they would probably exist on a diet of Haribo and bananas.smile

The mum did nothing wrong, she just brought along an alternative treat for her dc, knowing the birthday cake was unlikely to be vegan and gave it to him/her without any fuss. She didn't make a big song and dance and start lecturing everyone abou vegan ism. What else was she supposed to do, if she has chosen to feed her dc a vegan diet? Totally non issue as far as I can see.

Yellowtip Mon 16-Apr-12 08:59:25

My children choose whether or not to be vegetarian; I don't foist. I cook meat for them when they're little and for as long as they want it and those who opt for vegetarian have a different meal.

I don't eat meat, but what they eat is their choice, not mine.

Being vegan is an ethical issue and yabu to expect them to give up their beliefs just to suit a few mums at parties. I'd be quite happy to have some one bring their own stuff and would feel really bad if they had to sit there with nothing. Didn't harm u in any way so y worry about it? You woulda thought she was rude or mean if she just sat there and got the kids to sit there eating nothing!

issimma Mon 16-Apr-12 09:04:21

I'd much rather the child with dietary needs brought their own treat than having to make a vegan and a non-vegan cake!

Metabilis3 Mon 16-Apr-12 09:04:58

@what sorry, that's the world you'd like to exist, not the actual real world. Veggie and vegan kids are normally more frum than their parents!

Noqontrol Mon 16-Apr-12 09:09:42

Yabu. Why shouldn't the mum bring something different for a child if he's on a particular type of diet. I'd rather do that then try and make all the food vegan. What a bizarre thread.

Metabilis3 Mon 16-Apr-12 09:10:01

There is a difference between being a vegetarian and being someone who doesn't eat meat. Vegetarians don't support the meat industry. Vegetarians don't feed their kids meat.

exoticfruits Mon 16-Apr-12 09:21:25

Being vegan is an ethical issue

Not necessarily. People jump to conclusions based on what they think. My brother is a vegan for health reasons-nothing whatever to do with ethics.

Metabilis3 Mon 16-Apr-12 09:24:12

@exoticfruits does your brother wear leather? If he does then he isn't a vegan, he's a person who doesn't eat animal products.

Whatmeworry Mon 16-Apr-12 09:28:29

@what sorry, that's the world you'd like to exist, not the actual real world. Veggie and vegan kids are normally more frum than their parents!

If you say so...not in my experience though.

exoticfruits Mon 16-Apr-12 09:40:02

He does wear leather-it doesn't effect his health! I agree he isn't a vegan-but it is a term he has to use if he goes to someone's house for a meal etc.

exoticfruits Mon 16-Apr-12 09:41:35

He buys the cat tins of meat too-I assume that even ethical vegans do.

Cheerstothefrickenweekend Mon 16-Apr-12 09:45:18

Speaking as a committed carnivore I think you are being totally unreasonable.

PrincessOfPatna Mon 16-Apr-12 09:53:08

I really can't see how you could think that lady was rude! YABVVU and making me wonder about converting my meat eating household to veganism just to annoy you smile

NoFoodwithaFace Mon 16-Apr-12 09:56:04

I'm pretty upset about what some people (particuarly OP) have said. I''m bringing my son up veggie, i'm veggie, DP isn't.
I don't understand the whole 'inflicting your views' argument. Everything you do as a parent is a choice for your child. If I were to let him get his ears pierced, send him to private school, give him music lessons, would that be inflicting something on him too? Yes, because thats what being a parent is!
I chose to bring him up this way because I think it is the healthiest and most ethical way. If he were to decide later that he wanted to eat like his dad then thats fine.

And FYI exoticfruits my cat eats whiskas. Although he does also like mash potato... grin

Lueji Mon 16-Apr-12 10:00:12

From the title I thought she had thrown a wobbly because the cake was not vegan.

YABU

Metabilis3 Mon 16-Apr-12 10:04:59

@exotic fruits yeah, unlike dogs, cats physically can't not eat meat, they die. Actually most really hardline vegans wouldn't own pets for that reason.

I suspect that some of the antipathy towards vegan and vegetarianism is from people who feel a bit threatened and are trying to justify their choice to unquestioningly serve up crappy gristle sausages and hideous haribo to their kids. Not all meat eaters, obv. Just those pretending its unreasonable to be veggie. Personally, I think it shows a bit more thought going into dietary needs - most veggies we know are very healthy. Btw, piss off with your gleeful. 'all those kids scoff meat when you aren't there.' Wishful thinking much?

Mrsjay Mon 16-Apr-12 10:17:12

why is it a problem infact i think its great that the mum took something for her child at cake time saves any tears and awkwardness , would you rather the child had nothing , the rest of the kids had cake , vegan chocolate is rank imo ,

Whatmeworry Mon 16-Apr-12 10:18:01

I don't understand the whole 'inflicting your views' argument. Everything you do as a parent is a choice for your child. If I were to let him get his ears pierced, send him to private school, give him music lessons, would that be inflicting something on him too? Yes, because thats what being a parent is!

But some choices have bigger consequences....Humans aren't designed to be vegan, but they are designed to play violins.

I think veganism is a sensible thing for adults to decide on later, but IMO why take all the potential health risks with kids?

Yellowtip Mon 16-Apr-12 10:21:13

I think there are many shades of vegetarian, as exotic says. I'm not sure it's a necessary part of being a vegetarian that one has to proselytise. I've given my children (decent) meat from the start because I have a vague notion that it's better for them when they're young, even though I strongly dislike cooking it.

Two (girls) are now committed vegetarians for themselves though never push their views on their meat eating friends; two (boys) are very, very keen on meat; four can take it or leave it.

Stokey38 Mon 16-Apr-12 10:21:22

I do this for my DS because he is allergic to dairy and vegetarian. I wouldn't consider it / myself rude in the slightest. YABU.

whatmeworry it ain't a dream, believe me - I'd rather meat-eaters left the vegan goodies for us vegans grin i've been at three birthday parties where there were all-vegan cakes with the meat-eaters cage fighting good-naturedly squabbling over who got the last few cakes.

and i don;t think i've ever met a miserable veggie child - tho I'm sure they must exist.

perhaps you're going to the wrong parties or mixing with the wrong veggies? wink

BoffinMum Mon 16-Apr-12 10:24:04

I can't see how this could be construed as rude. It would surely only have been rude if she told the host off.

and i can i just clear up this 'vegan chocolate is disgusting' thing. it's starting to bug me.

it's generally just dark chocolate. yep, that's right - divine, lindt, green & black - all rank? hmm

UsedtobeYummy Mon 16-Apr-12 10:26:11

I would love to have raised my dcs vegan, but I love meat!!

Mrsjay Mon 16-Apr-12 10:28:43

sorry i was guilty of a vile comment didnt mean to offend but i really dont like it hmm we use alot of vegan chocolate where i work well the cook does as its dairy free , the children like it the adults not so much i guess its what you are used to ,

Stokey38 Mon 16-Apr-12 10:32:10

Both my DC are vegetarian as am I and have been for over 25 years. I don't feel my children are missing out on anything and actually my DD loves (4) telling people in a slightly precoious way that she is a vegetarian. As soon as they are old enough to make their own food choices they are welcome to eat meat but I won't cook it as I have no idea how to and their diets aren't lacking in any way.

Metabilis3 Mon 16-Apr-12 10:42:36

@season actually, Green and Black isn't 'safe' any more. They have moved to a mixed production line. sad But there is plenty of plain chocolate that is still vegan. Just less than there used to be (cheers, Kraft foods)

sixlostmonkeys Mon 16-Apr-12 10:43:53

whatmeworry - in my experience the norm is more the desperately miserable vegan/veggie/etc kid wanting what all the others are having (and scarfing sweets etc as much as they can once Mummie is out the picture

I find it very hard to believe that this is your experience at all hmm

Actually, when it come to food (unlike toys, trends, clothes etc) kids prefer to eat what they actually like eating rather than what others are having.

My son has been vegetarian all his life and has never once complained. I have been surrounded by children over the years with various food preferences/ restrictions/ choices and can honestly say I have never seen any child become upset because they are not eating the meat option. (do some people here beleive it is only meat that tastes nice?) I have however witnessed quite the reverse when I have taken veggie food to bbqs etc and the children (and adults for that matter) become rather enthusiastic about trying the veggie burger/sausage etc.

If you do actually believe that it is your experience that these kids are miserable then I can only assume you are believing so because you are uncertain or even have worries about your own choice of food.

I believe that people who claim to be anti-veggie/vegan are so because they feel threatened that others are actually making a more informed choice and also through ignorance of what actually makes a balanced diet.
Meat is not essential for a balanced diet. We don't need to eat it.

yeah you're right about bleddy G&B now Metabilis.

thank you for the gracious apology MrsJay smile of course it's cool for you or anyone else to say they don't like something - i just wanted to point out that generally vegan chocolate=dark chocolate which isn't normally considered disgusting!

Losingitall Mon 16-Apr-12 13:21:50

I suppose because the vegan diet has been 'inflicted' on the DC

Inflicted?? In the same way I suppose you inflict a dead animal diet on your DC?

I just don't understand y it's such a big deal sad there is nothing u can get from meat or dairy that u can't get elsewhere in their diet. It's a perfectly heAlthy way to live and it is not cruel bu any means to raise your children on a vegan diet. I would put money on vegan children being healthier than those on a so called "normal" diet. And when they r old enough they can decide fir themselves without the risk if becoming mortified at what they have eaten before hand.

PurpleRomanesco Mon 16-Apr-12 14:11:58

Exactly Wheresmycaffinedrip.

The whole "Humans are designed to eat meat ^blah blah^" is nonsense. Humans are designed to get much needed protein and nutrients from meat and at some in evolution meat was the easiest way to get it. Vegans have designed their diet so they get everything they need without the need for meat or diary.

On the other hand humans are not designed to eat most additives you would find at the food typically served at a childrens birthday party.

Dairy isn't even meant for humans. My dairy free ( milk intolerance ) dd is ill far less often than my other dd. And given her start in life she technically should be the one who gets ill more. Some might say that proves nothing but it's enough to make me start limiting her intake a bit. there are many alternatives out there that have all the vitamins and minerals of milk but none of the crap. smile

UsedtobeYummy Mon 16-Apr-12 14:41:22

Bowel cancer is the biggie if you eat meat isn't it? And it's much easier to start eating something as an adult as opposed to giving it up!

Three of my four don't like meat as much as fish (yep I know we're talking about vegans).

TandB Mon 16-Apr-12 15:38:47

Vegetarians don't feed their children meat?

Utter rubbish.

A vegetarian is anyone who does not eat animal products. It is a factual description. There are various ethical and moral stances attached to the word, but the term itself isn't defined by those.

I have been informed before that I am not a "real vegetarian" because it is because of preference, not ethics, but that was when I was about 13 and half my class were going through a "poor little fluffy animals" phase.

Language evolves, obviously, but this particular word hasn't evolved into a moral/ethical description - it is still an accepted description of a non meat-eater. I would be looked at like I was quite bonkers if someone in a restaurant asked me if I was a vegetarian and I said "No, I don't eat meat or fish".

You can't project your own beliefs onto a word in common parlance and insist that everyone else abide by them. Well, you can, actually, but you probably won't be taken seriously.

TheSockPuppet Mon 16-Apr-12 15:56:27

Yabu, but I'm pretty sure that has already been established as this thread is over 300 posts. My friends 6 year old is veggie (she chose to, her parents are veggie but never stopped her eating meat until she decided after reading a book about farm animals), and I've never heard her making a fuss. I would never be offended if her parents brought separate food for her.

My DS has a gluten intolerance and so I bring separate sweets and stuff for him if we're going out as eating gluten affects his behaviour, AIBU?

This thread has all got very silly.
The op was being unreasonable as the childs mother bought alternitives to the party.
People should be allowed to feed their children what they like without judgement, i couldn't have milk products as a child as it made me hyperactive and i never missed out on anythingsmile, they do lovely carob chocolate, soya icecream, soya milk etc and i even got a carob choco bunny every easter.
I feed my children a varied meat, vege, milk diet but if i wanted to feed them a vegan diet then why cant i?
We seem to live in a society these days where people are judged on everything and we are expected to all be the same almost like clones!angry
The lady gave her vegan child a choc lolly-vegans can be versatile like the rest of us-obviously if the child had wanted the cake then things would be different but she was happy with her lolly.
A child can be fed whatever the parent believes is good for their child as long as the child is not witheld from having what he/she wants when old enough to decide , say about 6 then i cannot see a problem tbh

TinkerSailerSoldierSpy Mon 16-Apr-12 16:27:49

But... Chocolate has milk in it... :S How is the lollipop vegan?

Metabilis3 Mon 16-Apr-12 16:31:14

Mainstream plain chocolate does not necessarily contain milk (although sometimes it does, in an annoyingly infinitesimal way). Specialist vegan plain chocolate certainly doesn't contain milk. Vegan 'milk' chocolate contains soya milk (I suppose - I've never tried it).

TinkerSailerSoldierSpy Mon 16-Apr-12 16:36:52

Ah ok. I had a vegan friend once, only she ate haribo and LOVED cheese sauce. She claimed they didn't count grin

Seona1973 Mon 16-Apr-12 16:37:33

You get dairy free chocolate e.g soya carob, dark chocolate, etc

Carob is vegan and dairy free

Metabilis3 Mon 16-Apr-12 16:58:35

Carob is a different thing though. Carob is more on the 'healthy' spectrum of things. When I was a kid, vegans could have either carob or mainstream plain chocolate that didn't contain dairy (so, mainly, the very dark stuff, though there were some interesting exceptions). These days, veganism and vegetarianism are much more mainstream and therefore carob has less of an all pervasive presence. It's still very there in some health food shops, but not all. And of course you can be a vegan without going near a health food shop, these days. It's a completely different world than the 80s. grin And actually, carob isn't exclusively vegan either for example you can get bags of mixed carob and yoghurt coated raisins. which are obviously not aimed at vegans (unless people are chucking them at us!) grin

MrsShortfuse Mon 16-Apr-12 17:25:37

OP I will stick my neck out and agree with you, I do think it's rude to bring different food to a party unless for a medical reason, so sockpuppet for example, YANBU.

But, I have a short fuse, and I come from a family where there are so many fads that Christmas dinner is about 27 different meals.

kipperandtiger Mon 16-Apr-12 17:36:46

Tinkertailor - you can buy non dairy chocolate at Waitrose and some other retailers. The milk substitute is soya. A few lactose/milk-intolerant kids I know eat it.

SoupDragon Mon 16-Apr-12 17:38:50

You really think it is rude to bring a substitute food in case something you/your child can not eat is served??

Has anyone answered whether you expect the child to watch everyone else eating, in this case, cake and have nothing?

kipperandtiger Mon 16-Apr-12 17:41:06

Actually, most kids bring their slice of birthday cake home..........don't see what the problem is. It's a kids' party - other kids will be bringing other snacks in case they feel peckish when the food's been cleared away - raisins, dried fruit, water bottle etc. Some siblings who are babies/toddlers will come with milk or purees. It's different if it's a grownups' dinner party - eg your boss throwing a farewell dinner at a elegant restaurant maybe.

SoupDragon Mon 16-Apr-12 17:42:05

"I would still be annoyed if it happened at a party I was hosting though."

Perhaps if you didn't want to be a "rude" host you would have provided an alternative for the child you knew was vegan. Personally I would have bought an appropriate small cake.

TidyDancer Mon 16-Apr-12 17:45:08

Considered not answering this, because of the obvious provocation, but OP, YABVVVVVVVVU. And clearly have started this thread as an anti-vegan tirade. This was none of your business, you had no right to start sending pointed emails to the party host, you should've kept your nose out of it. As for the 'no good reason' shit you alluded to up thread as to why the DCs of the vegan mum didn't have the cake, how is that your place to decide it's no good reason?!

The vegan mum did absolutely the right thing.

LesAnimaux Mon 16-Apr-12 17:48:27

YABU.

MrsShortfuse Mon 16-Apr-12 17:49:06

Soup, it's not that the child 'cannot eat it' in the case of veganism is it, it is that the mother thinks he shouldn't.

Whatmeworry Mon 16-Apr-12 17:52:53

Perhaps if you didn't want to be a "rude" host you would have provided an alternative for the child you knew was vegan. Personally I would have bought an appropriate small cake

This amuses me - not one week ago there was a thread where the debate was, what the right thing to do was if it was a veggie party and meat eaters wanted to bring stuff, and that was (of course) considered VVVVU and rude by the MN veggies.

And now, the reverse. I think non veggies are damned whether they do or don't grin

SoupDragon Mon 16-Apr-12 17:56:07

And the difference is, Mrsshortfuse...?

Whatmeworry Mon 16-Apr-12 18:00:44

I believe that people who claim to be anti-veggie/vegan are so because they feel threatened that others are actually making a more informed choice and also through ignorance of what actually makes a balanced diet

If by "more informed" you mean deliberately excluding huge amounts of data on balanced nutrition, and turning your back on humanity's evolution as an omnivorous species as it out-competed vegeterian ones, then yes you are more informed.

And no doubt blissful too....

PurpleRomanesco Mon 16-Apr-12 18:01:13

Did/would you you choose for your children to eat meat MrsShortfuse?

SoupDragon Mon 16-Apr-12 18:01:36

Whatmeworry, that's not the same thing at all really is it? The meat eaters can all eat every single item of the vegetarian food. The vegan child can not eat non-vegan food.

I'm not even a vegetarian and I can see the difference.

When veggie people visit, I cater for them as well. When children with dietary requirements visit, I cater for them be it vegetarian, dairy intolerant, coeliac or anything else. If I can not, I ask the parent/guest whether they would mind bringing an appropriate alternative (their preferred gluten free bread for example). If I couldn't be arsed to provide an alternative I really have no call to think it rude of someone to have an alternative with them.

kipperandtiger Mon 16-Apr-12 18:10:35

I've provided for kids who can't eat egg, dairy as well as both at kids' parties. Have to check the goody bags don't contain sweets or chocolate with those ingredients too! Have managed vegan dishes, egg free snacks, diary free dishes (you don't want the child to be able to only eat carrot sticks and nothing else) but I have to admit defeat at providing a cake that was egg and dairy free - in this instance am actually relieved if the parent will bring some cake substitute. But as the children usually don't eat the cake after the candles are blown (always ends up going into the goody bags) most of them are happy with fruit or jelly (as are the omnivorous guests). The sweets and chocolate also tend to end up in the children's goody bags rather than being eaten there.

Whatmeworry Mon 16-Apr-12 18:15:23

Whatmeworry, that's not the same thing at all really is it? The meat eaters can all eat every single item of the vegetarian food. The vegan child can not eat non-vegan food.

With a few excepetions (allergies) they can eat non vegan food, its just their parents don't want them to.

BTW I think the mother did the right thing in the circumstance here, I just think double standards exist in veggiedom.

TheSockPuppet Mon 16-Apr-12 18:16:07

My son CAN eat gluten, but he'll be climbing the walls so I choose to not give him it, I don't really see that much difference tbh?

I happen to think it's lovely that people agree to come to a kids party and make the effort to get there and make my child happy to celebrate the birthday with them. Couldn't give a crap even if they couldn't afford a present or brought their own vegan food or fruit snacks rather than eat sweets. What matters is whether the child had a nice time and was happy to see their friends on their birthday. And the idea that a child would be excluded purely cos no one could provide a suitable alternative , or bitched about their beliefs is disgusting. What harm was it doing to anyone and fwiw a few cold sausages crisps and sweets is not exactly something to worry about missing. All that happens when my dd eats that stuff is she feels sick and goes loopy on the sweets.

SoupDragon Mon 16-Apr-12 18:36:49

"With a few excepetions (allergies) they can eat non vegan food, its just their parents don't want them to. "

Are you being deliberately ignorant?

TheSockPuppet Mon 16-Apr-12 18:37:15

If the guest was fine bringing alternatives for her child and hostess was fine with her bringing it too then what is the problem? confused

SoupDragon Mon 16-Apr-12 18:38:53

Whatmeworry, by your argument you would happily feed a vegetarian adult bacon because, after all, it's not that they can't eat it, just that they choose not to. hmm. I guess you apply this to any religion with dietary requirements too.

SoupDragon Mon 16-Apr-12 18:39:47

Anyway, I don't actually care to listen to more intolerant claptrap so am clicking hide.

Mrsjay Mon 16-Apr-12 18:47:16

they can eat non vegan food well no they cant really because they are vegan hmm

QuickLookBusy Mon 16-Apr-12 18:53:32

whatmeworry the thread you refer to from last week concerned a BBQ. The veggie host was being told her bil was going to bring a load of meat to cook on her BBQ.

Not quite the same as meat eaters bringing along a few meaty nibbles. They were going to be cooking flash on her NEW BBQ.

I'm not a veggie by the way.

MrsShortfuse Mon 16-Apr-12 19:11:42

It seems to me there are several distinct, if interrelated debates here e.g.

1. Whether vegetarianism/veganism are reasonable lifestyle choices
2. Whether such a lifestyle choice is comparable with a health issue such as a peanut allergy, or a religious belief, in terms of hosts providing different options
3. Whether it is rude to bring your own items to a party because you have made a lifestyle choice like veganism or have a health issue.

In my (clearly unreasonable) opinion, if you have made a lifestyle choice like being a vegan, good manners means that when you are an invited guest somewhere you either accept what's on offer or you politely decline.

MrsShortfuse Mon 16-Apr-12 19:14:02

Purple, yes my children eat meat. There are things I would prefer them not to eat, but when at a party they can have whatever they like.

TheSockPuppet Mon 16-Apr-12 19:41:19

MrsShortFuse, if the host has no problem with you bringing your own food then why should you have to politely decline?

Vickles Mon 16-Apr-12 19:44:06

You're opinion is very out-dated... It's something my Mum, infact, Gran would've said! Get with it OP!

Ticktock1 Mon 16-Apr-12 19:46:58

I plan on raising my DC as vegan as I am vegan. I am happy for them to make their own choice when they are old enough to know what meat is. I may well be 'inflicting' my views but how many children really know what they are eating?

I want my child to know that the cute cow in the field is beef and that what they eat has a chain of events, meat causes pain and suffering, that is a choice they can make when they want to, until then vegan it is.

sixlostmonkeys Mon 16-Apr-12 20:51:23

if you have made a lifestyle choice like being a vegan, good manners means that when you are an invited guest somewhere you either accept what's on offer or you politely decline.

So, if you make a lifestyle choice not to drink alcohol and you get invited to a party and there are no soft drinks on offer do you a. politely decline and stay thristy all evening b. accept what's on offer even though it would mean you are no longer sober? or c. take along your own bottle of pop?

Whatmeworry Tue 17-Apr-12 07:27:34

by your argument you would happily feed a vegetarian adult bacon because, after all, it's not that they can't eat it, just that they choose not to

My argument is very simple - treat others as you would be treated. If you expect others to make allowances for you, then you need to make allowances for them.

Cheerstothefrickenweekend Tue 17-Apr-12 08:22:42

I have just read the OP again.

It really is unbelievably precious. 'unfair' on the other children'? WTF
Life is going to be hard for your DS with this attitude. You really need to think it through.

exoticfruits Tue 17-Apr-12 08:49:15

It is so trivial it doesn't even need thinking about.
I agree with sixlostmonkeys, even as an adult if you know that you are not being catered for you quietly take your own-it is ridiculous that you decline and have to do without.

trixymalixy Tue 17-Apr-12 09:09:07

My kids are allergic to eggs and dairy, so can never eat the cake at parties. I quite often make enough vegan cupcakes for everyone depending on how well I know the host. They are always hoovered up.

DS is old enough to understand he cant always have the same as everyone else, but DD got very upset when she fancied one of the normal cupcakes, but of course I couldn't let her eat it.

Op you are being vvvvvvv unreasonable, odd and rude.

wolvesarejustoldendaydogs Tue 17-Apr-12 09:09:15

I take gluten-free treats to kids parties (and anywhere else we go) for my 4yo coeliac son.

If another child 'envies' them, they will just have had a brief, fleeting moment of empathy since my son has to see treats he can't have every day of his life!

Gubbins Tue 17-Apr-12 11:33:56

I feel the same way as you, Wolves. My daughter has a dairy allergy, so ever since she was tiny I have taken her to parties with a couple of fairy cakes for her to eat when the other children are tucking into the birthday cake. I have only once had another child ask for one, so pointed out to her all the other lovely crips, cakes and biscuits that A hadn't been able to have and she was fine with that. If a 3 year old can get her head round it I'm suprised the OP couldn't.

"if you have made a lifestyle choice like being a vegan, good manners means that when you are an invited guest somewhere you either accept what's on offer or you politely decline"

good manners also means that if you invite people somewhere you ensure there is something they can eat and drink.

exoticfruits Tue 17-Apr-12 14:22:16

You do however have to be told of their needs in advance.

OrmIrian Tue 17-Apr-12 14:25:19

It would have been rude if she had made a big fuss, picked over all the food to makes sure it was Ok and then delivered a lecture. She didn't. She provided an acceptable alternative. What else could she do?

yes of course you need to know in advance. I would generally ask guests if they had any special dietary requirements.
but if i had forgotten i'd be grateful if they reminded me.

MummyPocPoc Tue 17-Apr-12 14:40:03

Terry Wogan's cock is Pure Pork boak

exoticfruits Tue 17-Apr-12 16:39:10

Maybe the one in OP didn't want to be difficult and she just did an alternative-not everyone wants to make work for the hostess.

as you can see from my post i was replying to someone further up the thread who said that good manners dictates that you should eat what you are given

it was not a direct answer to the OP... I've already done that further down!
In her case the vegan mum had spoken to the host, and they'd come to a mutually agreeable solution. which is great smile

exoticfruits Tue 17-Apr-12 17:28:42

I have lost track of who said what! I can't think why I am bothering to reply-it is so trivial. OP is being unreasonable-if her DC thinks it unfair just stick to my general saying 'life is never fair'! You are not doing your DC any favours to think it is-merely explain why vegans can't eat the cake.

valiumredhead Tue 17-Apr-12 17:42:39

I have read the first page only - YABU and quite bonkers!

upahill Tue 17-Apr-12 20:33:21

Blimey what a load of fuss about a kids party!!!
Anyone would thing a head of state was being entertained with all the talk about etiquette!

RevoltingPeasant Tue 17-Apr-12 20:37:27

MummyP envy thanks for that. Thanks very much.

I am kind of in awe that this is still going on. Do you think if you just put 'vegan' in a thread title it is automatically good for at least 250 posts? Vegetarian, maybe 175?

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

TheSmallClanger Sat 23-Mar-13 17:20:49

She was trying not to impose on the hostess, by the sounds of it. She WNBU.

ZOMBIE THREAD

TheSmallClanger Sat 23-Mar-13 17:36:24

Spammer. I didn't notice.

Megatron Sat 23-Mar-13 17:45:39

YABU. Do you think its 'odd' because she has chosen a different diet for her child than you? I'm not sure what difference it makes to you at all.

TiggyD Sat 23-Mar-13 18:19:47

Not a zombie thread. It's just that vegans tend to look a bit like zombies.

LastTangoInDevonshire Sat 23-Mar-13 18:29:38

THIS THREAD WAS STARTED A YEAR AGO !!

fuzzypicklehead Sat 23-Mar-13 19:45:22

Dammit, I read the whole thing before I realized it was an old thread. Grrrrrr!

YABU! She was being polite. She didn't expect you to have provided "special" food, but also didn't want her child to miss out, so brought her own.

Floggingmolly Sat 23-Mar-13 20:29:44

It would have better if she could have replaced like with like; rather than having kids wondering why they couldn't have a lollipop? She must have known the cake would be a problem.

Floggingmolly Sat 23-Mar-13 20:30:46

Oh God, it's a zombie blush

Maryz Sat 23-Mar-13 20:43:30

O Fuckit.

I thought Sue was back angry

tigerdriverII Sat 23-Mar-13 21:02:14

Bugger. Just read pretty much all of it and then saw how old it was. Anyway, YABU fwiw. Half an hour of my life I won't get back.

jellybeans Sat 23-Mar-13 22:04:50

YABU what about coeliac kids, nut allergy kids etc too?

OHforDUCKScake Sat 23-Mar-13 22:23:25

I actually thought this thread happened just here and now. Saw a post by Strandedbear and thought oh strandedbear is back!

Then saw the date.

LilQueenie Sun 24-Mar-13 00:30:04

YABU and 'inflicting' veganism on a chlid...hmm

My child is vegetarian. She doesnt go without I just supply an alternative. Its also healthier when taught to read the labels. I dont want my kid putting crap into her body just because "everyone else does it"

theodorakisses Sun 24-Mar-13 06:33:00

At least she took something for them. It is so hard, I want to scream "just give them the fucking cake" but it's none of my business how other people choose to bring up their child. I wouldn't feel the same if were a Muslim and pork so keep my trap shut and try to make it as unimportant as possible.

chocoholic73 Fri 10-May-13 13:19:40

LilQueenie, well put.

My little one is vegan; he has a fabulous diet, is not a fussy eater, simply adores food and I know his diet comprises good quality and highly nutritious food. What's more, I am not feeding him some poor animal that has been raised in horrific conditions and then killed for its flesh. For me, the matters, to other parents it doesn't. We have different views.

Any one who sees veggie or vegan kids as being somehow oppressed by their parents needs to acquire a decent, tolerant and inclusive attitude to life. To put meat, fish, eggs and milk in a babies bowl is also 'imposing' should we go down that line of argument.

Any decent parent who has a child with a 'different' diet will take, food or snacks to a party. I always take food out with me...even if we're just out and about in town, catching up with friends for a coffee, and the lovely thing is my son always shares his vegan food with his friends.

This might be an old thread, but I nevertheless feel like commenting smile

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes Fri 10-May-13 13:24:33

zombie thread <yawn>

TheSlug Fri 10-May-13 16:44:18

me too, fuzzy Grr

chocoholic73 Fri 10-May-13 17:52:41

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes, some of us may still feel like commenting, if that isn't your thing then fine, let the rest of us comment without facing rude comments like 'yawn' !

gordyslovesheep Fri 10-May-13 17:54:48

people who search for threads that they can be professionally offended by ...that

Dancergirl Fri 10-May-13 18:03:07

I know it's an old thread but chocoholic why would eggs laid by free range chickens be unacceptable to you? I hope you don't mind me asking, I am genuinely interested.

TheSlug Mon 13-May-13 14:31:32

dancer I'm not a Vegan but a veggie, I believe that most vegans' argument against eggs is similar to the argument against milk, male chicks are killed (often put through a mincing machine, horrific) because they are of no value. x

MammaTJ Mon 13-May-13 14:53:52

I do not understand why you would have thought it rude. They have a diet they are happy with, whether the child rebels and eats bacon butties later on or not. hmm

They did not inconvience the hostess at all by demanding special food.

They did not have an upset child because everyone else had cake and they had nothing.

Mum had thoughtfully dealt with what could have been a difficult situation.

Why on earth would you think that rude?

IrritatingInfinity Mon 13-May-13 15:10:27

Fair Play, the OP has acknowledged that she was BU. smile

Which is good because she was being massively U grin and decidedly 'odder' than vegan Mum.

IrritatingInfinity Mon 13-May-13 15:12:03

Oh, BUGGER, the ZOMBIE got me.

Gggrrrrrr I must, must read threads properly. angry (with myslf$

Tau Mon 13-May-13 16:01:07

YABVU.
This mum gives her child a treat that she can eat if there are no vegan options.
She could also have demanded that the party organizers provide vegan food.
She could also have just left her child with no treats at the party, while others were munching away.
She could have kept her child away from a party where there are no treats that she can eat.

Would you have approved of any of those options? I guess not. My guess is that you reckon the mum should have followed this option: Forget all about being vegan and let the child eat everything at the party. If that is what you think she should have done, then you are suggesting that this mother and her child can only be polite if they live according to YOUR world views. How dare they have different ideas from you?

Seems to me that you are the one being rude!

Zalen Mon 13-May-13 16:20:17

Just seen how old this thread is but since I've read the whole thing I'm going to have my say anyway.

All those saying that 'It's not that they can't eat meat, it's that their parents choose not to eat meat'

In that case I assume that if you see a child whose families religious beliefs do not allow the eating of certain meats etc you would still expect them to eat whatever they were given at a party. After all it's not that they can't eat meat, their bodies are perfectly capable of metabolising meat, their parents simply choose not to because of their religious beliefs.

I fail to see how ethical beliefs are in any way less worthy of respect than religious ones.

Tau Mon 13-May-13 16:20:29

And about 'inflicting' veganism on a child:

With just as much validity you can claim you are inflicting meat and dairy foods upon your child. Or are they fully aware of the moral implications, like the horrendous suffering that the cute piggies and cows and calves and baby lambs go through to provide your meat and milk?

When your child is very young, you decide what they eat.
My view is that if a child wishes to eat meat, they can choose to do so when they are old enough to understand where it comes from and how it is produced, so they can make an informed choice.

loofet Mon 13-May-13 16:42:29

I know it's a 'zombie thread', just wanted to answer q about why vegans don't eat 'free range' eggs.

Free range doesn't actually mean free range. Free range to me is running around a field, truly free. But what they mean by free range is cramming hundreds into a big shed instead of seperating them into little cages. They have to trample all over one another and their own feces, urine and worst still dead chickens. Chickens are usually very clean creatures so this goes against their nature. Disease is rife because of the conditions they live in and they often die agonising deaths. Also they are killed when their egg production declines and yes as theslug said male chicks are violently killed, some are suffocated in a bag because they're deemed useless. Hth smile

OP was bu aswell but I think that was gathered a year ago wink

Tau Mon 13-May-13 18:23:02

Ahhh, so a zombie thread is a very old thread that has been brought back. I see. Learning something new every day.

And Loofet, true about the eggs. I do eat the occasional egg though. They are goose eggs from geese who are kept as cherished spoiled pets by someone who lives near us. ;-) I have no moral issues with that.
VERY large eggs though!

Joiningthegang Mon 13-May-13 18:46:26

Yabu
My son was dairy intolerant so would take him alternatives as he usually couldn't eat much - much more rude to make a fuss and demand food for my child's intolerances

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