Help with MIL problem....

(229 Posts)
ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 21:20:00

Christmas 2010 we went to the PIL a 5 hour drive away. This way my idea. Things have often been fraught between me and MIL but I was trying to please.

So we arrived to find them out. We had travelled 5 hours in a car with lots of luggage/presents a 3 and 4 year old. NIGHTMARE.

They were busy so we settled ourselves in our hotel. Hotel was necessary - as staying at theirs was too much trouble. Their words.

We let the kids run riot and burn off some energy. Much needed and then we make our way to PIL home.

Was nice. OK.

Then back to hotel to get ready for Christmas day. I decorated the soulless hotel room with a tree and stockings (for Santa to find) and more... then we went to bed.

Of course, sleep, stockings prepared and delivered and then at the usual 5.30am kids awake and of we go......

We had been told the the day before that we couldn't arrive to PIL until after 11.30am. So we made the first 6 hours in a hotel room as fun as possible with the kids.... they are still 3 and 4 years old.... It was pretty shitty really.....

We arrive at PIL and have a jolly enough time of it. We are all making an effort. Its ok. Christmas dinner is late IMO for small kids as it always is. It was 4.30pm before we ate. The boys were over it by then. One ate a bit the other didnt. The littler one was already showing worrying signs of over tiredness.

I have to say they behaved beautifully up until this point. I was very proud.

We (me and hub) ate (in a hurry) and then little one (aged 3) started shouting. I couldn't placate him and I tried every trick in the book. We eventually had to leave. Bath, bed, story etc was much needed.....

He had been up for over 12 hours and was hot tired. Something, I didnt know what, was wrong with him and I knew we had to get him to bed. Routine etc.

It was a 15 min walk to the hotel room in the snow.

We started to leave. Coat alll the rest etc.... while PIL etc were still eating cheese and drinking coffee after Crimbo dinner.

MIL came in and I was on my knees trying to get coat on 3 year old... She just kept repeating (bearing down over me) that we couldnt leave and had to stay as there were more presents to unwrap. I said that we had to go (coudnt she SEE?) and that she wouldn have to be up all night with little one?

We had to 'just leave' my boy was screaming.....

She told me that I just had to leave him to cry....? We dont do that in my house. My children are 11 months apart and when they cry - we go to them....!

We left. It was awful. Little one up all night with a fever... no calpol, no thermoter, no hotel staff just me and my hand on forehead and no sleep....

We went back Boxing Day. SCREAMING ABUSE. CHILDREN SCARED SHITLESS, SO WAS I. SCREAMING, SPITTING, OBSENITIES. Awful.

It took me six months to stop my 4 year old from asking why Daddy is a BLOODY SHIT!!!!

We had upset her because we left early. No consideration for her efforts over Christmas etc etc. FYI. Christmas dinner was reheated and not cooked. Pre preared roast potatoes (the best kind not Aunt Bessies) and all the rest pre prepared too....Not that much effort IMO.

Hub is really upset that they have behaved this way but undersatnds that this is normal behaviour for her.

I am expecect to brush under the carpet.

I was badly absused by MIL 40 hours after giving birth and cant brush this under the carpet again.

Kind of feel like we should split up.... Me and hub.

Sad. :O( Confused....

Thanks for listening. Any help/advice gratefully received. I want to leave Hub even tho I love him so I can be free of the last 18 months of hell Ive been in...... sad

x

lechatnoir Thu 05-Apr-12 21:33:42

If you're at the stage of leaving your OH purely because of your in-laws then surely you need to give your OH the chance to sever ties with them for the sake of his family. Of have I missed the point?

rhondajean Thu 05-Apr-12 21:36:50

Im probably being dim, but has more happened since then or are you still rankling over the events of 18 months ago?

She behaved appallingly, but if thats been it, maybe you need to try to figure out how you move on and not let it ruin your life?

IwishIwasmoreorganised Thu 05-Apr-12 21:37:21

Why is this bothering you so much now - it was Christmas 2010.

Have you not spoken to your DH about this since then?

everlong Thu 05-Apr-12 21:37:40

Leaving your dh won't get rid of what's happened.

You need to leave your mil.

It sounds like you have had a really awful time. I know this might sound obvious but have you sat down with him (just him when child free) and explained how you feel?

LydiaWickham Thu 05-Apr-12 21:39:04

Draw a line - ask him if he thinks their behaviour was acceptable, if he agrees it was unacceptable, then how will he garentee you and the DCs won't have to experience that again. Your plan is to not see them again, if he can find a way to see them while be certain this won't happen, you're happy to hear it. You do'nt think she is more important than your DCs. Does he think she is?

holyShmoley Thu 05-Apr-12 21:39:16

Agree with that. You live five hours away from them, that should be manageable. "I try to please" is setting yourself up, and is a very foolish life strategy. Have you considered some kind of assertiveness training.

DairyNips Thu 05-Apr-12 21:39:56

They sound toxic and lacking in empathy and understanding. Sorry you had to go through that, awful.

I wouldn't let them split you up.

You and dh need to be a united front to them always. If you choose to stay in contact with them that is, I wouldn't.

cookcleanerchaufferetc Thu 05-Apr-12 21:39:58

Do you see them often? It can't be that much if they are 5 hours away and you have LOs. Can you let your DH see pil and you stay away?

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 21:40:06

Its been 18 months and things have been difficult. He has finally understood that just because HE is used to that kind of behaviour - that me and his boys shouldnt have to put up with the abuse she freely dishes out.

His family want him to do the usual of put up and shut up....

I cant let her continue to treat me, my kids and my hub the way she does....

She is I see troubled.

Today - he tells me that he had a nice little chit chat. After 18 months of prettly much hell on my party - he is brushing under the carpet.

MIL has made it clear she WILL NOT APOLOGISE as she was a bit upset.

Thanks for reading lechatnoir much appreciated...

marriedinwhite Thu 05-Apr-12 21:40:18

Why has something that happened at Christmas reached such a head at Easter?

LydiaWickham Thu 05-Apr-12 21:42:31

Well, then tell him until she apologises and promises she won't do this again, you can't trust her round the DCs so she won't be seeing them again, and you won't have anything to do with her either. It's her choice, he's to tell her. Don't back down on this. If he doesn't want to tell her, then he can make excuses for your absence, but she isn't welcome in your home and you won't go to hers.

Salmotrutta Thu 05-Apr-12 21:43:34

How old are your PIL?

What do you mean about your MIL abusing you 40 hrs after you gave birth?

What has happened in the interim? Something must have for you to be posting this now - 16 months later.

everlong Thu 05-Apr-12 21:44:04

Christmas 2010 married

amothersplaceisinthewrong Thu 05-Apr-12 21:44:17

Surely all the 18 months of hell is not down to MIL, given they live 5 hours away you can't see them enough for it to get that bad

You just need to agree that NEVER again will you go away to a Travellodge for Xmas whilst the kids are small - not if your in-laws won't really welcome you into their house. Your in-laws sound rather old and unable to cope with small children - better that they come to you and stay in a b&b, then on your own turf you are in control!

And your OH needs to deal with his in-laws.

xxmush1983xx Thu 05-Apr-12 21:45:32

Give your DH a chance, please!!

I'll quickly go into my story - MIL was (is) a horrible, interfering, jealous poisonous, manipulative witch who tried to interfere with everything between me and my DP. DP at the time would not stand up to her, and I always ended up being the bad one. I started to stand up to her and she hated it.

This all came to a head last year when my mum and DP fell out. Between them - two adults. At DD1's 5th birthday party last year MIL assaulted my DM because of this. AT MY 5 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER'S BIRTHDAY PARTY. DP was still totally blind to his mum by this point, and it ended up with us splitting up for 6 weeks because he backed her up. Eventually he realised what a twat he was being and what a manipulative cow she is and came back. None of us have had any contact with her for nearly a year. DD1 refuses to have contact with her, because (in her words, I have put nothing in her head!!) "My granny a did a horrible thing, she hurt my granny b and ruined my party".

This is the last thing I wanted, at the end of the day it is caused a huge family divide, if DP ever wants to speak to her he has been told not to involve me and the children (unless they want to see her).

I know this is how you are feeling, but I chucked DP out on his arse due to all the high emotions running - give it time, he will come to his senses. His wife and children should come first. I regret the way I handled things now, it made me no better than her. Do your children say anything about that day?

Hope things work out and if you need to rant, PM me xx

lechatnoir Thu 05-Apr-12 21:46:21

Totally agree with what Lydia said. Absolutely no compromise because you can guarantee even a slight shift & you'll be back to square one. Good luck op & stay strong if not for your own sanity then for your DC.

Calamityboo Thu 05-Apr-12 21:46:28

Oh that is an awful situation, a little similar to my mil who is vicious and nasty to me but sweetness and light for DH, he knows she is like this and he shrugs it off as he is used to it, I have however made it very very clear to him that she will not treat me like that, I will not put up with it. Please don't leave your DH over this nasty piece of work but make sure he knows you will not tolerate this, it is not normal and will not be accepted! Ooh all angry for you.

skateboarder Thu 05-Apr-12 21:47:50

What happened xmas 2011? Did you see the pil?

xxmush1983xx Thu 05-Apr-12 21:49:28

When I say give it time, I mean of course tell him exactly how you are feeling and that you will not bow down to her - and give it time to sink in x

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 21:49:57

Oh gosh. Thank you for even reading!!!! Thank you. smile

Hub and I have been in therapy since in happened.

He understands his parents are damaged but he by default is damaged too. Hubs life as always been to please/do as told and so saying he is not happy with her behaviour is MONUMENTAL. Not that I knew this when I married him.

We have not had them in our home since that Christmas.

SIL lives near us and MIL visits every 6 weeks. She wants to visit us too but we haven't extended the invitation/allowed. She is pissed off and makes it clear to all the family that she is the victim of our being distant.

Hub gets regular calls from Father and Sister telling him that his Dad could die (he has a small/minor stoke 2 years ago) and he should make things better.... The emotional blackmail and pressure on our marriage is IMMENSE.

Its been 18 months of hell. My trying to find forgiveness (Ive found understanding but I cant seem to forgive someone who isnt asking for forgiveness)....?

Hub casually told me tonight that he rang his Mum and had a nice little chat with her. Just catching up.

She will see this has him brushing the past 18 months under the carpet. Its rewarding her bad behaviour and I dont trust myself to even speak to my Hub Im so angry....

sad

Eglu Thu 05-Apr-12 21:50:32

I think you need to tell your DH that if he wishes to have a relationship with his parents that is his choice, but that you and your children will not be part of that abusive cycle.

marriedinwhite Thu 05-Apr-12 21:50:34

point taken. My mil is a manipulative cow. I should have put my foot down years ago but I think she manipulated me in the first 10 years shock. You need to lay down the law. Nothing to stop DH seeing his parents but everything to stop you and the dc seeing them until she apologises and meets on your terms.

xxmush1983xx Thu 05-Apr-12 21:51:56

YES YES YES, it's about HER being the bloody VICTIM!!!! Bloody martyr!! Don't give in x

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Thu 05-Apr-12 21:52:16

So don't see her again. Tell your dh you won't brush it under the carpet, and you can't forgive what she did without an apology. Then refuse to see her. Let him go whenhe wants to, and when the dc are old enough he can take them with him on his own, as long as you can trust him notto allow any bad mouthing of you.

There is no law that says you have to see your in laws. All you have to do is let your dh go with your blessing, and your children go if you know they will be safe, emotionally as well as physically.

I don't see my MIL anymore. I haven't seen her for nearly three years because I just couldn't tolerate being around her any longer. My dh had no choice but to respect the descison I made.

Eglu Thu 05-Apr-12 21:54:19

X-posted. He will find this difficult he has been brought up with it, but my above post stands. Tell him quite clearly that you will not brush it under the carpet, and you will not have her in your home.

cookcleanerchaufferetc Thu 05-Apr-12 21:54:37

Sorry but you have been in therapy over the Christmas 2010? That sounds very extreme. I don't understand why your won't allow your SIL over. You seem to be taking it to the extreme. Yes, your mil seems like a psycho bitch but you don't see or talk to her so .... Should you not get over it and tell your DH that you won't be seeing mil but understand he might want to. If SIL goes every 6 weeks let him go once......

Calamityboo Thu 05-Apr-12 21:55:18

Exactly what Eglu said, he can speak to her if he wants, but you and your dcs do not deserve to be treated that way by them and it is best if they are kept away from you. I would say though, if DH is back in touch with them, be wary of a relapse of his acceptance of their behaviour!

xxmush1983xx Thu 05-Apr-12 21:56:39

I don't think it's about her DH seeing MIL, it's about him taking a stand for his wife and kids.

DairyNips Thu 05-Apr-12 21:57:37

Cook - its not extreme, I have been in a similar situation and people like this can cause emotional devastation and untold stresssad

Eglu Thu 05-Apr-12 22:04:26

Mush I agree that in a perfect world that the DH would take a stand for his DW and DC, but we have to recognise that it is difficult for him to do that as he has grown up accepting awful behaviour and sweeping it all under the carpet.

Hopefully dome counselling or something in the future could help him to do that.

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 22:06:06

Oh My. So much to take in. smile
I AM SO HAPPY THAT YOU SEE WHAT IM SAYING.
If not for my therapist I would have gone mad.
I love my Hub. Is a good man.
He sees her faults but has been conditioned over 40 years to behave in such a way.
Hub gets blackmailed by his Dad and Sister and the rest of his family hasnt spoken to him in 18 months.
I see and feel his pain.
MIL is the victim but we were abused by her. My babies too.
The children dont really remember her.
We used to have her visit (her INSISTENCE) evey 6 weeks. No matter how tired I was with a new born and a 1 year old....

When I gave birth I asked for a 'babymoon'. It was my first baby. I didnt know the rules. I just knew I want to be in bed with my Hub and Baby. MIL said and I quote - Im not prepared to wait....

So she showed up and never left. Didnt once ask me how I was or hug me. Just looked shitty at me and down her nose at me....

I wanted to be alone. Hub said hed manage that but didnt. MIL SCREAMED AND SHOUTED AND SCREAMED AND SHOUTED ON MY DOORSTEP WHEN AFTER 2 DAYS HUB FINALLY SAID I NEEDED TO BE LEFT ALONE WITH BABY.

I was bleeding so bad. I had forceps, ventouse and and episiotomy . I had a 3 day labour and gave birth (without drugs) to a 9lb 8oz beautiful baby boy who came out with his arm and head at the same time. She made the first six months with him HELL. Hub had his whole family telling him how shit I was because I wanted some privacy....

:O(

I had better stop.... I have 7 years of this crap to share with you....

bibbitybobbitybunny Thu 05-Apr-12 22:06:42

In effect you want your dh to make a choice between you and his mother?

xxmush1983xx Thu 05-Apr-12 22:09:50

Eglu - that's exactly what I went through with my DP, he wouldn't back me up when I stood up for myself to her, just told me not to speak to his mum like that angry. DP had counselling and it really helped smile

Completely understand your situation as my pil are like this.
Its always their way or the highway-they will never changeangry
Fil ruined my mothers day by turning up at my house shouting obscenties at my H because he assumed we hadnt got mil a present.(we had got one)
He swore, shouted, spat moaned flowers and chocs wont cut it and said my H treats his mother badly which is not true, then he went on to say he doesnt care if he ever sees his grandkids again !-the thing was the whole time he was ranting my H was standing with the present ready to take to her which was a ds game!!
He promptly sped of after scaring all my dcs half to death with his lunacy.
He has still not apolgised and my pil are expecting us round their house saturday for an easter egg hunt with dcs, cousins and various other family inlaw! -im goin for my H but im dreading it as mil will prob stick up for fil if he rants again.
Considering fil said he never wants to see his grankids again i dont see why we have to go but H has been nagged and guiltripped into going by mil & sil

xxmush1983xx Thu 05-Apr-12 22:12:17

blanket - haha, I've got 7 years worth as well!!

Wine??? wine

Its like pil's cant let go of their little boys and want to keep as obedient children forever

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 22:15:31

bibbity. i guess i do.... sad
is that awful.

what i really want is to NOT FEEL CRAP that i am angry that my MIL abuses me and my kids on a regular basis.

if i say no to her (which i never have) but if i dont let her visit she abuses me...

if the kids are around she will abuse them too.

to see a 4 year old form the words BLOODY SHIT every now and again and ask why Daddy is one is too much for me...... My 4 year old SCREAMED IT each time too - mimicing her....

I see that its hard for DH. I get that.

I get that she is damanged and cant behave any other way.

I get that I can and have (to hub) said taht i wont see them again.

BUT THE PRESSURE I/we are constantly put under to perform i.e. see her every 4-6 weeks is immence.... Hub is hassled badly (blackmailed) every time we dont see her.

I can take it but after hearing that Hub had a nice fucking chat with her (her rang her) on the phone - Im wondering what Ive been doing for the past 18 months.....

Sorry about all this chaps... I wish Id posted years ago....

Thank you muchly for listening and replying.... Sorry to not name check. I will but bashing it out for now....

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Thu 05-Apr-12 22:16:38

If sharing seven years of crap will help you, then do it. It might be cathartic.

But at some point you need to let go. You need to make a conscious descison not to allow this woman to damage your marriage any more, and you need to stop allowing what she has done in the past make you so unhappy today. Because at the moment, you are allowing it.

Maybe therapy on your own would help you. Maybe some kind of ritual that ends with her being cut out of your life will do it.

It can happen, I am proof of it. There are still times when MIL's actions upset me, or I get upset about what she has done in the past, but it is so much easier to get over it when you are sticking to a promise you have made to yourself to not let her have control of your emotions any more. You are giving this horrible woman so much of your energy, and you just don't have to. It's ok to allow her to be a part of your DHs life without allowing her to be a part of yours.

lechatnoir Thu 05-Apr-12 22:18:22

Easy to say when you're looking from the outside in, but I simply cannot understand why you or your DH would want any of his family in your lives? Your DH has been conditioned over the years you absolutely MUST sever ties now before you go the same way & your DC continue living with this sorry cycle of abuse sad

fedupofnamechanging Thu 05-Apr-12 22:21:50

Don't leave your husband - you love him and he is damaged by his parents. He can't help that and I think the therapy will improve how he deals with them in the long run. Don't let this deranged bitch of a mil ruin your marriage any more. apart form anything else, if you separate, he will have access and will take them to visit her - you need to be with your dc to protect them from her.

My strategy for dealing with her would be to tell dh that if he wants to see/speak to her then that it up to him, although you personally, would prefer that he cut ties, following her abusive behaviour. However, you and the dc will not have her in your home or have any contact with her ever again.

If dh decides to maintain contact, then you do not wish to discuss it or her at all.

Basically, cut her off from your life and that of the dc. I also think your husband should tell his dad and sister that he does not wish to discuss his mum with them and if they insist on guilt tripping him, he will end the conversation. i doubt he'll do this, but they cannot make you have any contact or the children.

Eglu Thu 05-Apr-12 22:22:53

Pumpkin I can't believe either you or your DH are having anything to do with your ILs after your thread.

Ilove I can understand that you feel let down after he just phoned his Mother after all this time and accted like nothing happened. He really needs some counselling. Perhaps a reminder of what his DC experienced needs to be reiterated to him.

Hownoobrooncoo Thu 05-Apr-12 22:24:03

Why can't Dh call or see his mother if he wants and op stays clear of MIL so doesn't have to deal with her? Obviously he has to understand and agree to keep you out of it all.

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 22:24:03

Outraged....
I am in therapy. And Hub is in therapy. Its separate.
I agree. So much effort, stress and energy.
I thought we were on the same page.....but he rings her for a chat a fecking chat???? today???
So 18 months of working through therapy to not blame myself (Im like that) and for what??? To let time diminish what actually happened and have it brushed under the carpet.
I have read all posts and I can see that I need to make MY OWN decision and stick to it. As in - I wont see her again.
As it stands Hub has been written out of the will as punishment for him now seeing MIL (no guil there then).....
SIL is coming this weekend as Hubs insistence (quite understandably he feels so alone and so inviting his sister over and her coming is quite a big thing) but I dont see how I can sit and cook/entertain his sister and family without tripping over the elephant in the room....

xxmush1983xx Thu 05-Apr-12 22:24:09

That's the ultimatum I gave to DP, and I feel so shitty for it now BUT I was driven to it, and (not that it's tit for tat) she had said this to him previously. I think you're totally feeling like you're not being backed up or like your feelings even count. Have you thought about counselling on your own?

Men are so fucking infuriating with their mums sometimes, honestly, it's like the umbilical cord is made of some invisible, impossible to sever material

xxmush1983xx Thu 05-Apr-12 22:24:30

Sorry x-post re counselling

I feel as though i have a duty to my H to atleast try but if saturday ends badly i think that will be it the last straw.
Has anyone managed to break away from their pil without any trouble from your H's?

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 22:29:13

Hownoobrooncoo (great name by the way - I did the accent).

He can see them. Honest. But I cant seem to let go enough to let him let them with the children. I feel like I am being excluded when I havent done anything wrong...
What do you think? Too needy? But its how I feel..
No matter what I feel anyway. MIL wants to be invited to our home every 6 weeks, be entertained, have grandchildren, be fed watererd on her time schale etc etc etc until she goes when she is ready.

Its too hard... too much.

He can go to them. But its a 5 hour drive and he seems to not want to go....

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Thu 05-Apr-12 22:29:15

Your dh didn't call his mum because he brushed your feelings under the carpet, he called her because no matter what, he will always love her. There will always be part of him that hopes she will be the Mum he deserves her to be. When you are able to separate the way he feels about her with the way he feels about you, it will be much easier fir you to support the man you love in the crap he has to deal with in having her for a mother.

fedupofnamechanging Thu 05-Apr-12 22:29:17

. She is a guest and should respect your boundariesilove, remember that his sister is a product of her upbringing too. You are well within your rights to say to her that you are very happy to see her, love that she is visiting but you won't discuss her mother at all. It's your house - no one has the right to guilt trip you or browbeat you

OAM2009 Thu 05-Apr-12 22:29:35

I'm so sorry to hear your story. My PILs don't sound as bad as yours but I understand how PIL can put pressure on your marriage. DH and I lived in Australia for 17 months. As he is close to his family and an only child, he would ring them every week and EVERY WEEK for 17 months, they asked when he was coming home. And then his mum got cancer but they wouldn't tell us even tho we could tell from their voices and behaviour that something was wrong. 17 months into a 4 year visa, we were back in the UK. So I understand completely.

My advice is to focus on your DH and your family. Don't let your PIL ruin your wonderful, loving family. Your DH can't help it - he's not trying to upset you but for him, the ties are very, very strong. Think of your love for him and try to forgive him for his blind spot where they're concerned. Don't discard your marriage and your children's father over their stupidity - your family deserve better.

When you can speak to him, you need to tell him how you feel and try to agree some rules. Perhaps that he is welcome to see them but you and your children will not see her until she understands what she did, why you're upset and apologises. Perhaps you could pass on to your SIL what you've written down here (maybe edit a bit wink) so she could understand your POV and curb her phone calls.

Hope this is of some help xxx

skybluepearl Thu 05-Apr-12 22:29:51

what happened 40 hours post birth?

my MIL was a nightmare one xmas too (think toddler like tantrums) - although she is genrally anyway. she wrote and said sorry thankfully but I am still very reserved with her these days.

she was also awful 8 weeks post birth. really nasty.

i used to be effected by i/her and it used to really deeply upset me for years. them living at a distance has really helped though as it means minimal contact. minimal contact is ideal! oddly enough I manage to see the funny side of MIL these days. I have to update my friends about any additions to the MIL saga and while any dramas unfold i always make mental notes of what to tell my friends. it's great therapy for me and really helps me get though any horrible time with MIL.

your MIL's behaviour is unacceptable and will not be tollerated by you. that is the main thing your DH and MIL need to know. In your shoes I would allow kids to see MIL at SIL's house or locally but nothing else. Last thing you want is to spend hours in a hotel room or be at the mercy of one of her fowl mouthed tantrums in your own home. You need to make clear to your DH that she is not welcolme in your home unless MIL apologises and agrees to behave.

fedupofnamechanging Thu 05-Apr-12 22:30:09

Don't know what happened with the bold and spacing there

Calamityboo Thu 05-Apr-12 22:31:01

Was it maybe his counsellors idea to make contact? Part of his therapy? <Clutching a big bunch of straws>

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 22:33:00

Oh Outraged you said it perfectly.
Ive tried to convey this too. I do understand.
She is his Mum and he quite rightly loves her no matter how fucked up she is...
I get that. So thats how I have staggered through 18 months....
But to phone her for a chit chat and then come home and tell me alll about it????
WTF?
So we havent spoken all evening. Its the start of the bank holiday weekend and we are not speaking.
Im properly angry.
Again.
I so get he must and will love her.....
But I want to draw a line...? Or something?

Sigh. sad

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Thu 05-Apr-12 22:38:36

Mil will just have to be told that she is not welcome in your home. It's your home, if she doesn't like it she will have to lump it.

Pumpkin, I have broken away from my PIL with the least amount of trouble possible I think. It's not trouble free, but I don't think it ever can be completely. Dh is lovely and completely understands why I don't want to see his Mum, so he doesn't pressure me. I ask him how she is and stuff like that, he tells me the basics. He visits on his own every few months, but he speaks to her a couple of times a week. The only problem I ever get is when he says 'she is sorry for what she did', but if she was that sorry she would tell me that herself. It's much harder now for poor dh than it is for me, and that makes me sad. I wish he could have the happy family he wants, but it just isn't going to happen. Now that I dont have to see her any more, I feel I am much better placed to support dh in what would be a difficult situation whether I saw his mum or not.

skybluepearl Thu 05-Apr-12 22:39:04

Gosh sorry just read that she is abusive on an ongoing basis. Yes I agree. Make a decision and stick to it. She is not to be apart of you or your kids lives full stop. What is SIL like? Maybe you can just be honest but in a gentle way while explaining that your kids have to be your priority. You cannot accept them or yourself being abused in any shape or form.

Hownoobrooncoo Thu 05-Apr-12 22:40:10

I get the impression that nothing less than erasing her from his and your life will be acceptable. I really dread what the future brings being the Mother of only boys. These situations really sadden me, not that I'm planning on being a horrible MIL.

Hownoobrooncoo Thu 05-Apr-12 22:44:11

OAM2009. - sorry but reading your post, what do you understand completely? Your PIL's don't sound bad at all. You sound pissed off your MIL dared get cancer which cut short your time in OZ. Am I missing something?

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Thu 05-Apr-12 22:44:41

Lots of cross posts!

It is really hard, I do get that. You need to try not to be angry with your dh. All he wanted to do was to talk to his Mum and then tell his wife about it, which in the grand scheme of things, isn't a bad thing for him to want to do.

It feels like that means he is disregarding your feelings, but he isn't. When he's thinking about your feelings it sounds like he completely understands them. But at times, he will be consumed by his own feelings, and it's only natural that he will wish for a 'normal' happy family. When he's feeling his own feelings about his mum, it's not about you and you need to try and keep it not about you. You both need to try to understand each others perspective, because it doesn't sound like either of you are doing anything wrong.

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 22:44:53

Thats not what I mean HowNoo at all?. And yes I am a Mother of 2 beautiful boys but you dont need to be sad for them as I could never be as abusive or selfish as my MIL is.
I guess when you ask for it enough - you get a slap.
Im going to go now as its late and I guess I have to deal with this myself.
Thanks to everyone. Pumpkin. If its ok - Ill pm you? x

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 22:48:03

Outraged. You are wonderfully articulate and generous and you make much sense....
I will be reading and re reading all of this tomrrow again and again.
Really. I do thank you all for the support.
Its been a long and often frightening 18 months.
x

Madinitials Thu 05-Apr-12 22:49:36

OP I don't know if her apologising will be enough. Either she needs totally change her behaviour or you need to completely cut her off.

My toxic FIL has been trying his hardest to split DH & me up and him saying sorry would mean nothing to me now, it's much too late. He's a really nasty bully and DH is only just finding this out (it has been the norm for him since he was a child) but DH loves him because, naturally, he is his father. I hope we as a family come to completely cut him out of our lives soon but it's down to DH. It would be such a relief.

fedupofnamechanging Thu 05-Apr-12 22:50:55

OP, if it's any consolation, I think it's better that he told you he'd spoken to his mother, rather than just do it and not say. Better that he is honest with you and doesn't hide things.

But yes, make your decision and stick to it.

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 23:00:03

Madinitials - her saying some kind of sorry or making some kind of amend will mean much to me. I know that the past 18 months has changed us. Hub/Me forever. We wil never be as submissive as we have been and so much will never be at steak so therefore so much less to be angry about.

But if she is sorry - she will never say it. Its something I have come to terms with but Hub is trapped in his own trauma of it all....

Its bloody hard.

Karma. Yes. I think I need to make my own decision. My voice has not been heard since I said 18 months ago that I will be 'up all night with little one' . There is a massive elephant in the room and I dont much want to dance around with with SIL.
SIL wont get off the fence. Too much at stake. While Hub is in trouble she is in the will and in favour..... Its quite understandably a nice place to be...

IYKWIM

I dont blame anyone for anything. I get Hub is in an impossible place.

I think what Id like to say to MIL is what I have said to all of you lovely ones...

I think I would like to say MY piece..... But am aware that I will only make things worse.

x

Shelby2010 Thu 05-Apr-12 23:01:49

I'm a bit confused. Is this the first time DH has had contact in the last 18 months? Is MIL phoning your house and abusing you, or is it pressure via FIL & SIL?

This is a horrible situation for you but I do feel for your DH as its harder for him to admit that his own mother can't be trusted around his children. You see it as the thin end of the wedge, but when all is said and done, all he did was speak to her on the phone. That doesn't mean he has chosen her over you and your children, so don't judge him for something he hasn't done yet. If you don't want to see her then you don't have to, and if you think it would be damaging for you DC then be firm about that too. However if you think it would ease the pressure to have limited contact then I still wouldn't let her in the house. Instead arrange to meet for lunch with the DC at a local pub/restaurant, she may be more restrained in public and if she isn't then it's easier for you to walk out rather than getting her out of your house.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Thu 05-Apr-12 23:04:08

Say your piece if you want to. But say it in a letter, adressed directly to her. Then put it in an envelope, and worry about what to do with it after its written.

Oh, and thank you for your kind compliment smile

DairyNips Thu 05-Apr-12 23:10:26

Sleep wellsmile Stick together with your dh, he didn't mean to hurt you. It's so hard when you have toxic parents. He is clearly a decent person and his kind cant understand why his mother isn't. Therefore he probably thought he'd give her a chance to be the decent person he hopes she can be (she can't!) because, admitting to himself his mother is awful is painful.

I had an image in my head of the mother I wanted, the mother I deserved and unkept hoping my mother would be that mother and giving her more chances. Took a long time to realise she won't ever be and I just got a 'broken' one instead.

Hope you get this all sorted so you're not as stressed x

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 23:11:45

Shelby - there has been contact over the last 18 months. LOTS of pressure from SIL and FIL and MIL to MAKE FUCKING NICE. 'Just play the game' is what they tell Hub to do and then he has to tell me to do.

We have 'played the game' for our entire marriage until Christmas 2010 when it went to a place we couldnt contine. Well. I coulnd contine for the safety of our children.

So constant pressure to pretent it never happend. Constant.

So after 18 months of being strong and the only contact has been to say firmly but farily that if MIL wants to be in our life then she needs to make some kind of apology/accept that it is NOT ok to abuse us in such a way and/or frighten our kids....

he rings her for a fecking chat?

I guess thats what Im asking for. To make some sense of that.

I know and understand that he will always love her. Quite rightly too. She is is mother no matter how damanged.

I have decided that if DH wants to entertain SIL then he can do it on his own. Im not tripping of the massive elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about any more.

fedupofnamechanging Thu 05-Apr-12 23:12:35

There is nothing stopping you from writing a letter to your mil and telling her how you feel and why you won't be having contact in the future. You are an independent person with every right to express your feelings.

That said, you will utterly remove her power by cutting her off and refusing to discuss her at all. With people like her, you can't make them see reason, so I wouldn't bother wasting my energy on trying. I would just make the decision to get on with my life and focus on having a happy marriage and family and take her out of the equation totally. If you refuse to discuss her with your dh, then she cannot get to you, through him.

Just make it clear that the dc are not to be taken anywhere near her.

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 23:15:58

Dairy - yes. You got it. And I get it. smile
Outranged. I want to write. But Im properly scared.... Quite ridiculous as Im 41. sad
Karma - yes. Your right. He had no clue Id react badly. He didnt think there was anything wrong. And ultimately - there isnt.... he had a chat with his Mum. But it feels very wrong - because after 18 months of abuse/blackmail and estrangement.... it is!

I thank you all so much for listening. Really. Thank you.
x

Hownoobrooncoo Thu 05-Apr-12 23:26:02

Don't think anything she does will change anything for you, doubt you will ever be able to have an kind of relationship with her feeling the way you'd and if she thinks she is right and is unprepared to compromise or admit any fault. Just cut yourself off and your children if you think they could be harmed by her spite and temper. Let your husband have a relationship with his mother as long as he supports your position and understands you want nothing to with it.

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 05-Apr-12 23:48:42

A simple apology or acceptance at least of her appaling behaviour will change everything.
But that I know wont happen. She wont. She has said.
So what next? I find the strength to try to forgive or brush under carpet and have it happen again.

Shelby2010 Thu 05-Apr-12 23:52:01

Thanks for the clarification OP, everything you say makes it sound worse. I hope you and DH can find a way through this together.

Of course you can pm me op.
Please don't break up with your H over this as he has been conditioned by your pil and to leave him would probably make your pils jump for joy as then they get him to themselves-sounds crazy but im sure thats what my pil are intending to make happen.
He is your H and a father to your dcs don't split because of this, a happy family teared apart all because of mil, its not worth it.
I dont know how you have put up with how your pils have been towards you especially after giving birth it must have been truely awful.
It sounds as though your H is in the same boat as my H-guiltripped consantly, made to say 'yes' to all their demands or is hassled furthermore until they get their own way. My mil crys on the phone to pull at my Hs heartstrings and she gets sil to put pressure on him to by getting her to phone about random meetings they should have or diy she wants doing.
One day they even reduced my H to tears, i feel so sorry for him as he gets it of all 3 of them fil, mil & sil.
I try to be friendly with sil & we are having her round tomorrow, but because she is involved in all this im starting to despice her too as i dont see why she has to pressure him also.
The thing is our Hs love their mum's & will want to see them but when you have dcs involved it makes it all the more harder.
My H has been told by his mother that she wont be able to live if she dont see her grankids again!confused then started wailing on the phone considering ive invited her round fri i dont see how this is trueconfused & she only saw them 2 wks ago-its all because we didnt want to go to saturdays easter hunt!!(hardly surprising), so after hearing this ive been guiltripped into going too. I would have got him to go without me with dcs but to be honest he gets so bored whilst there he falls asleep( not allowed to watch tv, no music) that he dont watch dcs properly so i have to go to as last time he took them my youngest dc fell down mil disabilty ramp into conservetry and my 5 yr old dc went into garden and was caught playing with a saw!!! Without being nasty on this note mil is disabled so isnt capable of checking where dcs are so of course if dcs wander of while H is napping on sofa i dread to think what they'll get hold of next time angry
If anyones wondering where fil was when all this happened he was in bed having an afternoon viestaangry-considering he had guests very rude behaviour & my sil was playing on her ipod whilst all her kids were egging my 5 year old on to play a saw fight!!!

DairyNips Fri 06-Apr-12 09:42:15

I understand why you feel scared. It depends why you want to write. I have written to my parents many times explaining why their behaviour is unacceptable and how thy have hurt us. It didn't change anything, they just acted super insulted and played the victim again and again and claimed I was making up lies about them etc.

However, if it would make you feel better to get it off your chest then by all means write to them. I'm just saying don't expect any revelations about what an idiot she is on her partgrin

Another option would be to write a letter with no intention of sending it. Just to offload so it's not all in your head anymore?

Hownoobrooncoo Fri 06-Apr-12 09:59:05

Pumpkinsweetie. - not saying your PIL's aren't a nightmare but why are you blaming them for lack of supervision when it's your own husband who fell asleep and left them to it. It's statements like this that make me wonder where the real problem is. On these boards we only hear one side and there seem to be so many evil MILS and PILS out there.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Fri 06-Apr-12 10:10:23

Electric Blanket, what you said about trying to find the strength to forgive or brush it under the carpet really struck a chord with me. That's how I felt for a long time, and still do to some extent.

Forgiveness is hard, and I have been trying to find it for years. I can't. I don't feel it's brushed under the carpet as much as its more that its in a box that is tucked away at the back of my mind. Forgetting is also very hard, especially when you have to live with the consequences of what was done. We have to live with the consequences of what was done on a daily basis and it's heartbreaking.

There is a Buddhist quote that I try to remember regularly, it goes something like

'Holding on to anger is like holding onto a hot coal with the intention of throwing it at someone. You are the one who gets burned'

It's so true.

gettinghappy Fri 06-Apr-12 10:11:10

Op, I think you need to decide if you want to save your marriage. If the answer is yes, then what others have suggested sounds sensible to me.

You and the childrne have nothing at all to do with her. Acknowledge that your husband will chat/call her if he chooses, tell him you respect his decision for himself, but ask him please not to talk to you about it as it is emotionally just to difficult for you. Make it clear to him that it's ok for him to dothat but that neither you nor your children will ever be in a positon where she can verbally/emotionally abuse you again.

What an awful position. Yes she is damaged, but that does not give her the right to damage anyone else - particularly you or your children. If she ever makes such an awful display of behaviour on your doorstep again - call the police.

Hope you can work things out with your husband. he sounds like he's caught between a rock and a hard place. It might help him to know that because you are related to someone does not mean you HAVE to love them..........but I'm sure his therapist has told him this already and he is trying to work it through in his own way. x

Xales Fri 06-Apr-12 10:18:57

This will stuff pisses me off.

My mum was treated like fucking shit by her family all her life. She was conditioned to be the black sheep.

The last few years of an elderly relative's life she came to live with us apart from the last few months when mum said she needed a break and they went to another relative. This elderly relative said my mum would have something in their will for looking after them. She got sweet fuck all. It all got left to others. If my mum had not taken this relative in no other fucker in the family wanted them and they would have had to go into care spending what money they had left.

Her parents were able to buy their house with their share and when my mum mentioned she had been told she would be left something was told she would get her fair share when her parents died. When her last parent died this year she was left 5% of their estate while the other kids divvied up the remaining 95% between them.

I have had as little to do with them as possible over the last 20 years (basically going to their funerals) and I only did that for my mum. She is heart broken that even in their dying they have treated her like shit and tries not to show it.

Now my mum would have done the caring all over again as that is the sort of person she is. It wasn't about the money.

I am stubborn and pig headed. If someone ever said they were cutting me out unless I bent down and kissed their arse I would tell them to get fucked. Much as I could do with the money I will never be blackmailed like that.

OK that was a little off the track.

You have no reason to think that even if you and your family bend and scrape to every one of this selfish bitch's whims from now to the day she dies that she will leave you so much as a dirty look. If she is as spiteful as she sounds I wouldn't hold my breath. So in my opinion that is no reason to make nice with her.

I would sit and be very clear with your DH that you love him and that you want to be with him.

Then tell him clearly it is his family. If he wants to have contact with them he is welcome to. You don't want to hear about it and you and your children will not be going there as it is not an environment which is good for them.

They are not welcome in your house and you will not be the one cooking, cleaning or entertaining his sister.

If he loves you as much as you love him can you both agree to this compromise?

Spuddybean Fri 06-Apr-12 10:48:05

Hi OP. I read your thread last night but was too tired to answer. I thought i would say something this morning. My pils are a nightmare too. Not in the same way as yours tho. No shouting. For the first year DP and i were together i thought they were fine. A bit eccentric (mil neurotic and paranoid/obsessed with money. dad rude and selfish) but okay. DP had told me stories of things they had done, and that not one family member or friend spoke to them as they had all been banned from the house. He told me how mil had blackmailed him into splitting up with a girlfriend (he was young and at uni and reliant on them).

Anyway, out of the blue, his mum called him to say i was banned from the house due to a series of things i had said that they had basically been drawing out of me over the year. (nothing personal, opinions on eggs, carpets and xmas trees etc).

So, altho at first it was hard. DP and i agreed it wouldn't split us up. He still went to see them once a month and we didn't discuss them. That was 3 years ago now and altho people think it odd - it really is the best solution.

I know it isn't the same, but could you and DH come to an understanding like that?

I agree hownoo my H should have took responsibilty and i dont blame my pil for not watching children as he was there but to leave sharp knifes on kitchen top & a saw on picnic table when they knew we were coming was very irresponsible also. In my home all knifes and saws etc are out of reach or locked away.
I was just pointing out why i cannot let him attend these gatherings with my dcs alone but i understand where ur coming from.
I hope things get better op & u and your H work things out

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 12:38:37

For the past 18 months we have been of the agreement that I wont have them in the house etc etc etc until she can accept her behaviour is unacceptable. And or an apology. It took me 6 months to reach this position. I have always been fair. As in I waited 6 long painful months for her to see that she hurt me and my family.

So thats how its been played for the past year and its not easy but its whats been done.

The DP wants me to have SIL over. Essentially SIL has done nothing wrong. She has occassionally called DH to tell him that their Father could die and that he should stop this nonsense etc etc etc and let MIL see the children.

Emotional blackmail at its best...

But I dont restpect, like or appreciate have to watch my husband be ostracised from his family by his immediate family because MIL has somehow made herself the victim?

I have not spoken to any of my Inlawas for 18 months.

As for teh Will we both can see that his FIL is desperately unhappy with this woman and has stuck around because there is money in it and he doesnt know how else to be without her.

We both very early on agreed that we cannnot spend a lifetime waiting for her to die for their money. We do need money but never enough to prostitute ourselves like that. Im proud of that decision. I cant be a slave to MILs whims and screaming for any potential money in the pot. Xales I feel your pain and the betrayal on your Mums behalf. What shits..... ! angry

Spuddy so we seem to have that understanding and tho its not easy to live that life - we both manage. Im not sure why I have gone off the rails. ???

Im trying to find out what it is thats wrankled me.

DH rang his Mum yesterday from work to see how she was???? To have a chat and they had a FUCKING CHAT???? FFS? He said he didnt want to NOT ring her because he is aware that she is playing the victim card and he didnt want to look like a bully?

Im just really upset. Somewhere inside me feels betrayed? Confused?

Im NOT saying Im right here. Im just upset and I spend the first 8 months in therapy blaming myself for the fallout. MIL says its my fault.

DH is outside now tidying the shed with the kids.... A job he is only doing because he knows Im upset.... You know. Tidying the shed has been on his list of things to do for years and so today of all days he is doing it. He is trying to make amends.

We havent fought. I just cant bring myself to brush this under the carpet.

And now Im confused about SIL visit next week. I agreed to it only because I wanted to try to support DH re: his estranngment from his family. So I said yes and he knows it was hard for me. It will be hard for me as we will have to conduct the entire day with A MASSIVE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.

I have never had a voice. Hence the letter which your right DairyNips will only do more damage. I wont send a letter. But I would love to say something/scream something about how this has hurt me, my kids and is damanging our marriage.

They all think (I think) that they just need to get DH to play teh game again and all will be well. Like I dont have a say in this.....

I dont know..... I do know that I wish I spoken to you all about this years ago...

Thank you again for listening and replying. Its bluddy lovely of you all...

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 13:52:02

So weve had a chat and he tells me he rang her becuase he was aware that he was looking like the bully. So he made nice to make everyone happy.

I get that it doesnt matter if he has a relatinoship with her. I get that she is his Mother and he should and does love her.

But I (we) have been though 18 months of hell. Utter hell.... and then he decides to call her for a chat. To make nice.

So I have been supporting him all this time for him to just do what they want him to do all along.

Ive told him the she is never going to welcome in our home, near me or the kids again. Unless she can apologise.

And Ive asked him to make that clear to all.

He wont tho.

And Ive said that he can do what he wants with his family - as he should do. But I need to make my own decisions and I decide to NOT be a part of any of it. And that includes the constant support and sharing of the agony he is in that they put him though.

I cant support him and then have him making nicey nicey just becuse thats what they want him to do?

Does any of this make sense? confused

Xales Fri 06-Apr-12 14:03:04

It makes total sense.

You just have to be strong enough to stop him if he starts and remind him that you do not want to know.

Good luck.

fedupofnamechanging Fri 06-Apr-12 14:06:27

What you say makes complete sense to me.

I would be feeling betrayed too - they have treated you like shit and you feel, deep down on some level, that it shouldn't be such a struggle for your dh to chose you and put you first, above the nasty, manipulative bitch that is his mother.

The thing is, though - he is damaged by her. He's had years of this and so can't think about it like someone who hasn't been damaged. Because of this, it wouldn't be right to view him as being disloyal to you and I can see you are really struggling to not view him in this way.

I think you are right to tell him that you and kids will not see or speak to her again - if he won't communicate that to his family, then you can. Sil will be visiting and that's a golden opportunity to send the message loud and clear.

Get him to keep on with the counselling (and you too). Eventually he may well come to the same conclusion as you, and cut her off himself. Might take a long time though, because she is his mother.

In life, you can't control other people's actions, only your own. You have decided you want no part of this any more and I think you are right to do so.

Your husband cannot reasonably expect you to listen to him and support him, when he is enabling this to go on. You've drawn your line in the sand - now don't let any of them step over it.

He had every right to ring his mother.
His big mistake was doing what obviously he and his entire family have been conditioned into doing for so long, in ignoring her horrific, unhinged behaviour and pretending all was fine on the phone. I would be angry too.

You have every right not to want this woman near you or in your home - any comeback, keep it simple. After the events of Christmas 2010 you do not want to see her. You are still really upset . What isn't there to understand about that?

Your DH should take the opportunity of his sister's visit to explain that to her and why you can not move on without an apology beacsue your family does not behave in this abusive way.

If he wants to see his mother let him make the arrangements away from you. I hope you can work things out between you.

IloveJudgeJudy Fri 06-Apr-12 15:13:54

I think you really have to learn to live with the fact that your DH has telephoned his mother. You can't change it. It's happened. You can only change your reaction to it.

It sounds as though you have a pretty good relationship with your DH. He hasn't had such a good homelife as you when he was a child. MIL will always be his mother. Perhaps you could just agree that he doesn't discuss with you any of his conversation with his mother unless he has persuaded her to apologise to you?

The person/people you are hurting most atm are you and then your DH. I know that it is hard. My MIL has been very hurtful to me in the past (nowhere on your MIL's level, though) and now DH does her shopping on Saturdays and takes one of the DC. I haven't seen her for absolutely ages. I'm not bothered as she used to think I'd taken him away from her. She can think what she likes. I won't stop DH from seeing her. I've said he can invite her whenever he wants, but he never has. In the past it was I who pushed him to invite her here. I don't do that any more at all.

Please try and reconcile yourself to the fact that he's going to ring her on occasion and just try not to get worked up about it, but don't discuss it with him, either.

gettinghappy Fri 06-Apr-12 15:30:51

I agree with IloveJudgeJudy and the only onther thing I would add is that even if MIL does apologise, from what you say about her history, it's not likely to be genuine, so if it wa me then I would not be having anything to do with her, apology or not and accept your husband will speak to her. As other posters have said, if he starts to tell you about his chats with his mum, just remind him that it's too painful and you agreed not to talk about it.

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 15:39:53

I think I do get that now Judge Judy smile Its been a long journey...!

I get that he of course can ring his mother as I do understand (as does he) that he is damaged by years of brainwashing/conditioning to allow her appalling behaviour.

And I truly do get that pretty much no matter what - you will always love your Mum no matter how fucked up they are. I understand it and have always acknowledged it....

I was shocked by the call because in her eyes - she has now had a lovely little chat with DS and thinks that she has been forgiven.

Nobody has asked my thoughts or feelings and DH will probably if Im honest not have the courage to tell them of the line I personaly have drawn in the sand. And when push comes to shove and they start hassling for an invite over and he finally has to tell them that I wont have them in the house - it will kick off all over again.

Ive drawn a line in the sand that noone knows about.

Re: lunch with SIL. There is no way - she will talk about it.
I will have to make dinner and polite chit chat until they go.

Im not sure Im brave enough to launch into it all. I wish I were more confident....

Do you think that I will come across as antagonistic to raise the subject and then tell them of MY line in the sand?

IYKWIM?

SIL wants nothing to do with it and just wants DH to behave as it makes her life harder. E.g - we turned down an invitation celebrate neices first birthday as PIL were there too.... SIL not happy.

None of that is my problem.

I just wonder if its a step too far expecting me to host a dinner for SiL and family when all this is going on?

karma your last sentance made a lot of sense. He is expecting me to support him while he does his own thing. I dont think I want to do it anymore.... Walking out seems the easist option but I know that that is rubbish. I love him. And I cant leave him because it means I wont have to deal with MIL anymore... Utter rubbish on my behalf...

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 15:40:37

Thank you Xales

smile

fedupofnamechanging Fri 06-Apr-12 15:48:10

leaving him wouldn't help - she would just have access to your children on your husband's contact days.

The best way to thwart her is to stay put and just not allow her anywhere near you and the kids.

Even if she mistakenly thinks that all is forgiven, she will soon get the message when she never sees you and the kids again. Your husband can say what he likes to her, but he won't be able to hide your stance forever.

If it all kicks off again, so be it. You know you are doing the right thing - for your children and for your own sanity. Don't let mil or dh tell you otherwise.

Refuse to engage and instead focus on all the good things that you and dh share.

Let him phone mil but tell him you dont want to know about it future.
He's free to decide when he can see/phone her so why should you have to support him she hasnt apologised & even when/if she does will she mean it??
Im still waiting for apology of fil too, but it looks as if he thinks he's done nothing wrong confused!
Sheduled to see pil tomorrow dreading it sad, didnt see my sil in the end as H is ill hmm, he seems to always get ill when his family are due round-to be honest i think the stress makes him ill & maybe he wants to see them but feels nervous of the hassle he encounters. Op does your H get mood swings when he's heard from or seen his parents ?- as my H gets very moody when hes been phoned or seen them

WinkyWinkola Fri 06-Apr-12 15:50:59

Gosh.

Someone - anyone - treats my dh and dcs like this mil and they refuse to apologise and make good then they never hear from me again.

Even if it were my mother. It would be a bye bye. And I would broadcast the truth very loudly to the rest of the family.

Nobody would fe allowed to treat my spouse and family that way.

Op, your dh needs to explain why he thinks it's ok for his mother to treat you and his dcs this way. Because by maintaining contact as if nothing has happened, he is condoning her behaviour.

It will happen again. Luckily you are not going to let it. He might though. I would never let the vicious old hag see your dcs with just your dh in charge.

Is he this lame with other people or merely his parents?

And be strong for your H, it must be hard with her as a mum

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 16:25:45

DH has been ostracised by his entire family for 18 months now. Everybody condones MIL behaviour.
Nobody likes this woman and MIL doesnt much like anyone either.
She is incredibly powerful and dramatic. Seeing a 63 year old fit, strong and healthy woman have a tantrum of the worst kind you see in 3 year olds.... is shockign to say the least.
He has always understood that I and kids wont see her again. But now he is wavering on the making nice because he misses all the rest of his family he is finding that fact difficult. IMO.
He doesnt get why I have changed my mind about entertaining SIL.
I dont get it either - I just know I could really do without the stress and fakness of it all... Its a day long charade that I could do without.
Do you think I am punishing DH for phoning his Mum? I dont. I think Im allowed to be shocked and upset. But Im not fully sure of my reactions and keep second guessing myself.
DH has just said that he thinks I want to control the whole thing.

I DONT. I have said consistently that he must do what he wants to do. Brush under carpet, be strong, line in the sand - whatever HE wants! I have supported and comforted him as best I can for 18 months.

But I wont see her again and she wont be seeing the DCs as I dont trust her.

And now he is making signs of brushign under the carpet he is upset that I am upset about it?

Gruuuuuuuurrrrrr

Do stop me if I get to bloody boring.... Im so sorry about all this. blush

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 16:26:29

Ive often liked the horrid bitch to a hand grenade.... She goes off without warning at the slightest thing and causes so much hurt and pain....

sad

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 16:27:47

winky - he thinks the call doesnt mean anything. Because he didnt mean that all is well as its not all good in his head. But I say that she will see it in a different way and think that she is being or is forgiven.

She really is like that.

Nanny0gg Fri 06-Apr-12 16:38:21

OP - you can't control what she or anyone else in the family thinks, only how you react to them.

Let your DH do what he needs to do as far as his family is concerned, but keep you and your DCs well away and tell him you don't want to hear anything about them.

And be ready to help him when he realises that he cannot deal with them any more.

As far as your SiL is concerned, if she didn't mention your MiL or the situation, would you like her? Would you want to see her? If you would, lay down ground rules about the situation and enforce them.
But if you don't want to see her, make sure your DH understands this and he can meet up with her elsewhere.

eggkr Fri 06-Apr-12 16:39:04

I can understand why its still bothering you tbh.My pil behaved so badly aftter the birth of dd 14 months ago that it made me ill and i also considered splitting up with dh as an option.
I still get anxious and angry when they are coming here (this weekend) but I am able to swallow it for dh.
I found having several open conversations about how they had made me feel and how i feel now that really helped.
Some things just arent worth it.
I keep a low profile when they are about now and often take myself off to see friends for an hour or have my hair done just to water it down a bit.
I take comfort from the fact that they have paid for their bad behaviour by not having the warm welcome they used to before,and they know why too.

StrawberryMojito Fri 06-Apr-12 16:39:19

Yes, I think you're punishing your DH for phoning his mum. He accepts that neither you or your dc will have contact with her again but he misses his family. MIL sounds like a tyrant and a bully and the rest of the family also suffer the effects of that. As long as he doesn't try and force you or the kids into seeing her then let him get on with building bridges with his family. His sister didn't ruin your Xmas and if she doesn't want to bring the subject up then be grateful for that. It will bother you MIL more to know that you are getting on fine with other members of the family but still wont see her. I sympathise with you but you are starting to sound a little controlling yourself. Be careful of that.

bamboobutton Fri 06-Apr-12 16:44:26

i can understand why you are so angry why your dh phoned his mum.

something similar happened with us. short story is: after years of snide remarks from fil i finaly had enough and told him so, he flips his lid, starts screaming, shouting, smashing furniture, threatening me, all in front of our 3yo ds.
all contact severed, fil never seeing me or kids again.

find out dh has been phoning fil like everything is hunky-dory and fil never threatened me.

feels like a huge huge betrayal. fil is NPD, a wife beater, generally abusive man but has family looking up to him like he is a god on Mt olympusangry
can't get dh to see how much it upsets me.

popsypie Fri 06-Apr-12 16:49:08

Don't leave him because of her. It almost sounds like she is being 'the other woman'. Why should you be on your own whilst she has access to your boys and proves her point about you? Don't let her take your lovely family away from you - then she really would 'win'.

Just really focus on what you have NOW. You have two lovely children who are growing each day - don't let her rob you of that time by thinking constantly about her.

Is it possible for you to go away - just the four of you? Try and reconnect as a family - switch off the mobile and keep the location a secret.

It sounds like you want to do the right thing all the time, but you have put in the effort now and got nothing back. Cut her from your life - ignore her calls, block her number and don't answer the door. This is your DH's problem to resolve. Support him as he finds the strength to either break free or encourage her to find some help, but remember you have your own family and she is not a part of it.

Good luck - I really feel for you. xx

DairyNips Fri 06-Apr-12 16:51:50

It's really hard and I understand your need to protect yourself emotionally.
When I went through similar my dh stood by me and didn't really make me choose in any way. When I needed to call my parents he was there to be a shoulder to cry on afterwards. If I had to visit them he came with me and presented a united front to them. When they shouted at me and were abusive he stuck up for me at the same time as me standing up for myself.

I needed that and appreciated it. We have now gone no contact and he supports me through that. If I felt the need to contact them again at any point in the future he would be by my side.

The only difference I would say between my situation and yours however was that I fully understood they were awful to me and my dh. I always tried to stick up for myself and dh to the point of having screaming matches. Your dh doesn't seem to be in that place yet, he is still giving in to the guilt trips and blackmail. It's hard not to, no one wants to look like the baddy and I'm sure your mil does a very good job of making everyone believe he is the baddy.

I'm just saying, he probably wishes they'd all just disappear tbh but is caught in this fear, obligation, guilt cycle. He is a victim in all this as are you.

What made us go no contact in the end was my ds1 being born. It's all very well having screaming matches when you disagree with them but when the dc are there to witness it it's just not right. I couldn't expose my kids to that or the lies and manipulation.

Hope you find a way to deal with this together. Maybe get him to read Toxic Parents.

Spuddybean Fri 06-Apr-12 16:52:15

OP - she may well do. But does it really matter? she is unhinged. She would make everything out to be in her favour anyway wouldn't she. So ignoring her would make her the victim and speaking to her makes her forgiven.

This is how my PIL's are. And at the beginning i was cutting off my nose to spite my face. I was determined 'they' wouldn't win. But it was at the detriment of myself and my beloved DP (who is conditioned and damaged by them too).

I adjusted my view and stopped making it all about their feelings and made it about ours. As long as i didn't have to see them or hear about them why did it matter really what they felt. They are bonkers! If you don't play the game then they can't win.

Just draw the line where your boundaries are and try to get over the bitterness. Don't see them and tell your DH you don't want to be part of their drama's. He is not to tell you about them and you will not ask.

It's hard at first and i used to try to listen when DP was on the phone but now i just don't give a shit!

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 16:55:37

nanny - he has been to see SIL many time with kids... its been how it is and is becuase its how I prefer it.

I hate the pretence of it all...

Then he wants to invite her over for family lunch. I didnt like the idea but agreed as want to support DH as much as I can.

Now I hate the idea. I just feel intimidated by his family and I dont need the extra stress.

He can go and see her but he wants ME to be with him. It feels fake to me.

Now he has to tell her that lunch is off and I feel guilty that Im not going the extra mile.

I feel fecking awful.

Weve now had the biggest of rows. He is full of self pity (no body likes me and I cant do anything right) and Im just angry that I have to be involved in all of this.

MIL abused me and my kids very badly on numerous occasions. Im sick of it all. sad

Spuddybean Fri 06-Apr-12 17:00:46

OP it sounds very raw still. I think if you can you should try to see SIL but make it clear PIL's are off the menu for conversation.

Could you meet out for lunch somewhere? You may have built seeing SIL up in your head, and seeing her for an hour may prove things can be okay. Of course it may not and she may make barbed comments in which case you know you did the right thing and you can leave at any time. Really what is the worst that can happen?

I agree with popsypie, dont let her win.
It would be the ultimate winning situation for mil if u were to split.

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 17:06:41

Also not in it to win it. This is a loose loose scenario.
MIL will never apologise.
Hub has to deal with the pain of that.
He is confused and hurt.
I am angry and tired.

I could see SIL and have a relationship but she is a product of this woman too and you can imagine what she is like. She is like her mother. Quite selfish IMO.

So so I have her for lunch and make nice or do I retreat and feel like Im a bad wife for not support hub?

spuddy you sound very well adjusted.... I like the re adjusting your mindset. Im close to it but every time I try to be strong and say fuck it - DH pops up with a guilt trip.

Im sorry other people here have PIL from hell too. Im so glad to feel like Im not on my own.....

Id never treat my kids like this.

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 17:08:35

spuddy genius idea. meet at a pub.
SIL is pregnant so wants it all nice and cosy at our house.... but it means I have to cook, clean, prepare etc etc etc only to be ignored or patronised.

At least lunch out means I can eat and run if I hate it.

The reason I have agnoised over this is that I feel I should give her a chance... IYKWIM.

Genius. THANK YOU. XXXXX

deste Fri 06-Apr-12 17:24:50

Your MIL is a nightmare there is no doubt about that but you are putting your DH in an impossible situation. You say he can see his mother if he wants but you are punishing him for it. Why not see the SIL, as you say she has done nothing wrong. It would make your DH happy or does his happiness not come into it. I have not spoken to my MIL for about 7 years but there is no problem, my DH visits her every week. He never mentions anything because I'm not interested. I do ask how she is as I might get a clue to when I might expect to get my house back, (she lives in it rent free). We just get on with our lives and it never even entered my head that I would split from him because of her. It seems that it is your way or the highway. You didn't marry her so she doesnt need to be in your life.

Jux Fri 06-Apr-12 17:26:16

Have SIL over.

Open the conversation with her by saying how sorry you were to miss the nieces party and then say what your MIL said and did that your ds has repeated it many times, is confused about it etc and explain that you are never going to be put in that situation again and nor are your children.

It might help to write down the salient points and learn them off by heart. Don't let anyone interrupt you; as soon as someone opens their mouth hold up your hand and say "I haven't finished", until you have.

That way your line in the sand is pubic.

You never know, your SIL might be delighted and become an ally.

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 17:27:37

Ok. Yet more discussions with DH.
Ive said that he can do as he pleases.... Ive always said that.
Ive said that Im not ready to hang out with his sister ---- yet.
Im just not ready.
He said that he wont see her then.
So I said thats bloody blackmail.
Go. Have a nice time with your fucking family but leave me OUT OF IT.
They scare me, they intimidate me and they abuse me.

Fair enuff?

I think he gets it.

And I think this is right.

If things change or improve then maybe I can see them. But as it stands. Im not comfortable.

This all feels good. The only bad is that I think I might be a bad wife... and not support Hub in what is a really horrible situation.

Thanks for listening guys.

x

HoudiniHissy Fri 06-Apr-12 17:48:44

yep, do the pub thing... she wouldn't DARE humiliate you in public...

and then you are not waiting on her hand and foot, and as soon as you are finished eating you can leave!

Give her the chance on neutral ground. Don't let someone into your home that may humiliate you for fun...

If the subject of MIL comes up, say that you are NOT prepared to have that conversation and that if that is what her visit is all about, best pay the bill there and then...

Be THAT firm!

You can do it!

DairyNips Fri 06-Apr-12 17:57:13

You're not a bad wife. No one should have to put up with this shit!

Hownoobrooncoo Fri 06-Apr-12 18:01:37

Well nothing you said until the last few posts made it sound like the SIL was unreasonable and like the mother. I don't see why it has to be so hard. You no longer have contact with PILS. If SIL is reasonable and not out to get at you then I don't see why you can't meet up with her. If it gets nasty then don't contact her agin. You have made your call and are calling the shots, what more do you want unless you want your husband to completely drop his entire family. You stay clear of those who misbehave and let him do what he pleases. Honestly, what do you really, really want?

MigratingCoconuts Fri 06-Apr-12 18:06:42

you're not a bad wife! i think you're brilliant!

I guess the tough thing is that you are never going to have that light bulb moment when mil suddenly goes 'oh, I see! I'm so sorry'. You will always be cast as the bully..

and you are way ahead of you dh and sil who haven't yet worked out that she is playing on making you all feel bad. He rings for a chat because he can't shake the behaviour yet.

The only thing you can control is you dcs experiences and you are being brilliant in keeping them away!

MigratingCoconuts Fri 06-Apr-12 18:09:48

sil is just usd to keeping things easy. It must be tough for her if she's pregnant.

Is there any way you can chat with her on the phone and set your ground rules?

If no, then stick to you line of not seeing any of them. It is totally reasonable of you!

I really do think that you and your dc come first for you in all of this

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 18:24:33

hownoo thats a good question.
I think I want not to feel or be made to feel bad for not accepting MIL awful behaviour.
SIL hasnt given ME a hard time. Cold distance (we were reasonably close before) but I hate seeing her blackmail hub with risk of FIL dying (he had a mild stroke years ago). It makes me not like her.

I think I should see her and do this thing at the pub. DEFO not at my home. But SIL will be arsey about that. I really do have to jump through hoops for them and if i dont we are punished.

As in she is pregnant and has a 1 year old. I remember those days of exhaustion and nap times etc so she wants to come to our home. So little one can sleep. Its not an unreasonable request.... I AM JUST NOT COMFORTABLE AROUND THESE PEOPLE.....

I could say brunch/lunch bloody breakfast even. Meet them half way. Whatever works best for them with a 1 year old in tow. But not at my home....

But I think SIL will be arsey about that.

I guess I could try and see how it goes.

None of my inlaws have spoken to me since Dec 2010. I am not to be spoken to - so my nerves have got the better of me. My SIL would be hofrrified if I rang her.... and I dont have the courage after all this time....

I need to man up. And I will. Thank you lovely people. Cant belive how much effort youve all made. I AM SO PLEASED THAT YOU SEE IT AND GET IT.
THANK YOU.
X

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 18:26:06

When I say try - what I actually mean is that Hub will aks if thats ok.
And he will ask.
All communication goes through him.

Its the rules...

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 18:28:39

FYI. FIL SIL AND BIL are all lawyers.
Subtle and smart....
I used to be fine but this has knocked my confidence...

MigratingCoconuts Fri 06-Apr-12 18:32:08

you are the sane one, though!

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 19:09:23

Thanks MC smile Much appreciated.

WinkyWinkola Fri 06-Apr-12 19:43:28

But your dh isn't sticking up for you. He hasn't said your mil's behaviour towards his wife and children was unacceptable.

That's what the big problem is IMO. It's all very well the op just getting on with her life and avoiding her in laws but her dh has let her down massively. Where is his loyalty to his wife and children?

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 06-Apr-12 20:04:02

winky he has said al of that. he has said its not ok to treat me, him the DCs like that and has said it consistently for 18 months.
i think thats why the phone call was such a shock.
he still maintains that he behaviour isnt ok and will protect us but its hard for him.
i ricochet between supporting the fact that he is in agony choosing me over them and what is right.

sigh!

WinkyWinkola Fri 06-Apr-12 20:10:51

But he hasn't said it to his mother or family? Or has he? I'd be so indignant is all.

Groovee Fri 06-Apr-12 20:14:07

Do what I do with BIL and his family (his wife screamed at my dd because she was angry at my dh, so she took it out on a 9 year old), I leave them downstairs with dh dealing with them. I normally get a good movie and chocolates. Until that thing apologises to dd I won't ever speak to her again. We're now 3 years down the line, so I have nothing to do with them.

HoudiniHissy Fri 06-Apr-12 20:19:07

perhaps he is giving them a chance to get it right.... he, as their son/bro needs not to give up on them...

Sadly he has yet to learn that they WON'T ever get it right, because they don't want to.

There are motions he has to go through as the son/bro that you don't have to. I know you don't understand it and find it hurtful, incomprehensible, but he has a big wake up call yet to come, he still can't quite believe that they really don't give a shit enough to be nice to him and to his family.

he's not choosing them over you, he's trying not to lose his parents. He wants them to be nice, to be normal, to be OK, loving and nurturing. That's not going to happen, but for him to give up hope of that is excruciating. he's not there yet.

He needs to be on the stately homes threads.

he needs to talk with his counsellor about why he called them, what he expected/hoped from it.

Hownoobrooncoo Fri 06-Apr-12 20:55:32

I think the husband is actually doing the best he can in a very difficult position. If he feels he needs contact with his family, just let him get on with it.

OAM2009 Fri 06-Apr-12 23:26:50

Sorry to hijack the thread for a minute but Hownoobrooncoo, to answer your question (on page 3), I understand completely how events with PILs can put pressure on your marriage, to the extent that you want to split up.

You sound pissed off your MIL dared get cancer which cut short your time in OZ Didn't quite mean it like that but now you've pointed it out, it's one for me and Freud to think about.

I am pissed off but not because she had cancer but more that her illness became another way to put pressure on us to return to the UK. They didn't even tell us she had cancer until we came home for a 4 week visit. And then what do you do? Oh, you've got cancer, OK, well bye then mum, see you in another 18 months?

OP, I'm afraid I haven't read all the posts yet but I hope that the sheer amount of support you're receiving from MN will help you, as well as all the advice and suggestions xxx

ilikecandyandrunning Fri 06-Apr-12 23:57:39

Yanbu at ALL op! Don't let her anywhere near you or your kids. She has got away with acting like a spooky shit for far too long so good on you for saying 'no more' and for keeping your kids away from her toxic shit. Stand firm and just remember YANBU AT ALL!

ilikecandyandrunning Sat 07-Apr-12 07:00:08

Stupid not spooky! iPhone!

WinkyWinkola Sat 07-Apr-12 07:12:22

Although she does sound spooky and scary!

ilovemyelectricblanket Sat 07-Apr-12 07:44:38

hownoo - I agree. DH is doing the best he can do in what is for us a really REALLY difficult situation.

It is awful. And the pressure we are under to perform our son and DIL duties is immence.

He rang her for a chat and that changes IMO the dynamics. I think (Ireally do think) that she thinks she is forgiven and we will be resuming our duties asap.

I dont think Im wrong.

DH sees 'my point'. I can only leave it at that.

I just now have to think hard about SIL visit (which Im fecking dreading) and go from there.

I DO SINCERELY THANK YOU ALL. What an amazing bunch and thank you so much for the time and effot you have put into my cry for help. I feel better and its thanks to the honesty and wisdom of you all and for sharing.

I left DH up with the pages of Stately Homes last night. I didnt know it existed but I do now. Thank you again Houdini smile

Pumkin - I will be thinking of you. Please let me know how it goes. Be strong and sure of what is and isnt acceptable to you and discuss with DH. x

StrawberryMojito - thank you. SIL wont want to bring up the subject. And for some reason that has offended me. But I think youre right that I should be grateful for that. I will chug on with the lunch and hope to minimise the stress of it all....

bamboo - its AWFUL that DH cant get his head around the situation. do you think you could get him to counselling? the best and biggest thing to come out of all of this is that DH now fully understands that his mother is damaged and her behaviour isnt normal. these kids grow up with behaviour and they think its normal but constant fear and veral abuse isnt normal. Have you asked him if he would like to raise his kids the way he was raise... might be a starting block. I wish you luck....

Take care wonderful people thank you for your help and enjoy your holidays....!

Hownoobrooncoo Sat 07-Apr-12 08:58:33

My father is toxic, you'd be surprised how many us are dealing with this in one way or another, I have taken away his power to emotionally and verbally abuse me any longer and he is just a sad and bitter old man who is not loved but just tolerated by all his children. He also thinks he can control us with his money. My sister isn't faring do well though.

Today wasn't too bad, was bought a bottle of drink from fil to say sorry, the only bad bit about today was mil & H's aunt moaning about how none of us (sil, sil2& me) havent provided her any grandsons yet, moaning how theres too many grandaughters!! Me & sil obviously told them both theres no chance of that as bil has just had snip & i use contraception & we already have four girls each so that should make them happy that shut them up. Hopefully sil2 will give them want soon as weve had to hear about their prefrences since each girl has been born.
At my last scan at 21weeks the 1st thing they did was moan once we revealed the sex!
Considering sil had a miscarriage 1yr 1/2 ago and her last dc was a premmie and nearly died you would think they would be grateful for what grankids they do have but hey ho

ilovemyelectricblanket Tue 12-Mar-13 20:08:35

Hey. Its been nearly a year. Will anyone see this if I add a post? Are any of you there? Not sure how this works a year later...

x

We can see you. How are you? x

Magimedi Tue 12-Mar-13 20:21:12

It's a bit Zombie.

Maybe start a new thread?

Hobbes8 Tue 12-Mar-13 20:21:59

Yes we can see you, and I remember your post. Hope things have improved for you?

The only thing about adding to an old thread like this is that some people will read your first post and answer it without realising it's old.

yes - all going ok?

ilovemyelectricblanket Tue 12-Mar-13 20:25:09

Im good. I just wanted to bring you all up to date and thank you all for saving me from myself.
I didnt split with DH. And Im so glad.
Things are still estranged between me and PIL but me and hub and found our way and are stronger for it.
Far enough to start considering ourselves strong enough to allow MIL back into our life.
Its a MASSIVE step but the point being that no matter how horrible and vile she is - we dont need to let her hurt us.
DH is in a MUCH better place. Im so relieved.
I really was consdiering leaving him but we made it though the fog.
I was just re reading this post and so many people said so many amazing and insightful things - that I wanted to say thank you and you were all so right. Even the posts that (at the time) made me question myself and my behaviour.
SO THANK YOU.
xxxx

PortHills Tue 12-Mar-13 20:38:46

Great work, lovely change to start reading a thread and wonder how it's going to end up, and then hear a happy-so-far ending :-)

Congratulations to you and DH for being a strong couple.

PortHills Tue 12-Mar-13 20:39:29

oh - happy-so-far sounds awful!! I didn't want to put happy-ever-after because it sounds a bit dappy :-)

ilovemyelectricblanket Tue 12-Mar-13 20:42:14

Yes. I agree. I really was a year ago thinking that I have no choice but to divorce. I got A LOT of support (and it really was supportive) from mumsnet and I didnt. I got on with it. We got on with it. And a year later - we find ourslves STRONG and happy. And thank goodness for that.
Its been a bloody bloody long slog and not without pain. But I think we are going to be able to try and re introduce MIL and whether it is successful or not (Im not niave) - it WONT impinge on our marriage.
THAT is to be celebrated.

Brilliant news, hope it goes well when you reintroduce her :-)

ilovemyelectricblanket Tue 12-Mar-13 20:56:47

Thanks! Whatever happens - I will try to find some humour in it.
There wont be an apology. She isnt sorry and never will be.
Im over the shock and horror of it all.
It still stands that if she ever behaves like that again. Then its over.
No drama. No nothing. We wont let her abuse us our children like that again.
Sounds so simple now.
Has taken us 2.5 years to reach this point.
Funny old business isnt it.
Most important of all. Me and Mr Blanket are good.
Thats the best bit of all.
grin)

that's really great news smile

ProphetOfDoom Tue 12-Mar-13 21:01:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ilovemyelectricblanket Tue 12-Mar-13 21:13:12

Oof! Never again.
We had Christmas in our home in our new kitchen/diner with all of my family (who are lovely and appalled at my PIL behaviour).
It was wonderful.
Ive learned so much from this.
I will never again do things to an extreem (driving 6 hours with 2 small children to stay in a hotel over christmas) that I know are wrong to please the needs of others.
See how far weve come!???
Delighted I am.

The thing is - nothing has changed. Still the blackmail. Still no apology. Spiteful recorded delivery letters sent from her to me telling me how shit I am. Noting has changed.

But WE have changed and it just sort of happened one day.

I think we woke up and realised that WE have the power to stop being hurt and abused by others and THAT made the difference.

You can talk the talk and give the adivce but until the lightbulb goes off and the inner strength grows - youre at the mercy of nutters!

Scary isnt it. If your PIL are nutters. ;/

ilovemyelectricblanket Tue 12-Mar-13 21:16:04

If MIL goes tonto again. Its over.
We walk away. Quietly and with as much strengh as we can.
We both anticpiate it (MIL is terribly damaged) but we are prepared to give her one more chance.
For the sake of our marriage and DH emotional well being.
If that makes sense?
Watch this space.
She hates me and I find it hard to like her. I will do my best not to antagonise her but if she loses it and behves like taht again then we go.

ilovemyelectricblanket Tue 12-Mar-13 21:17:11

HoudiniHissy got it right. He needs to give them one more chance. And Im able and ready to support him on that.

Smartiepants79 Tue 12-Mar-13 21:28:26

I agree with Eglu if HE wants to continue his relationship with HIS mother then that is his choice.
That does not mean you and your children need to be part of this.
Insisting he doesn't see her could put even more strain on your marriage.

ilovemyelectricblanket Tue 12-Mar-13 21:32:51

Id never insist that.
But my and the boys not being a part of his family is what has been so hard for him to come to terms with.
He wants it all nice but it isnt nice.
We found a path but its taken 2.5 years!

LemonBreeland Tue 12-Mar-13 21:48:04

Great to hear an update on this. I used to be Eglu.

I'm glad that you feel strong enough to try with MIL. I can understand your Dhs need to give his Mother one more chance. He has to be certain that it's not him being an awful son cutting her out.

Sadly I think it won't be that long beofre she kicks off again by th sounds of things.

Have you been completely no contact since the incident?

Hissy Tue 12-Mar-13 21:49:33

You need him to understand too, that when they fail, as indeed they will (although perhaps you ought to say 'if'), that you will be there for him.

He really does need Stately Homes, that and/or Toxic Parents book.

Have you had any more recorded delivery letters? Refuse them in future.

Well done the pair of you getting through this!

ilovemyelectricblanket Tue 12-Mar-13 22:21:49

No contact at all in 2.5 years bar her horrid letter to me which I will refuse if she tries that again and I wrote her an email back. Just restating what actually happened not her new victim made up version.
Mr B has had the entire family pressure blackmail to behave appropriately (pretend it never happened) which he has resisted. It went down like a sack of shit.
It's been horrible living under the pressure and coming to terms but we've both sort of seen the light - so to speak. I think DH understands its not him it really is them and I feel the same way. It's too easy to blame yourself and believe others when they point the finger.
We really have done nothing wrong. His patents/family are just really really fucked up!
If it goes wrong again - there you go.
We can then try to move on easier than now and betterprepared and with tools to cope.
The way it is now doesn't work so we will try this avenue with caution!

ProphetOfDoom Tue 12-Mar-13 22:33:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Inertia Tue 12-Mar-13 23:13:06

Glad to hear your marriage survived ; sounds as though you have both worked very hard.

I think you do need to tread very carefully here - you are still subjected to blackmail and abuse, and now you have agreed to let them back in to the lives . IMO, this sends the message to MIL and the rest of their family that you will buckle as long as the pressure and blackmail is sustained and severe enough.

You might want to consider keeping yourself and the children out of the reconciliation until MIL has proved that she can be trusted not to scream abuse and threats at you.

Hoofhearted69 Wed 13-Mar-13 11:54:21

Blimey love, big hugs! Have had MIL issues in the past too, but actually have come to realise that I shouldn't take it personally...I know this sounds a bit simplistic, but think about it like this...she would behave like this no matter who your DH was with, it's not about you at all really, her behaviour is HER responsibility, not your and not your DH's, and you are allowed to do whatever you think necessary to protect your children from anyone who has so little respect for other people's feelings, no matter who they are.

Please please try to re route how you go forward now, you can have your happy home with DH and kids, without all the grief from your in laws if you want, but you need to accept that this is how they are, they won't change, and you have every right to just crack on with your life if you can decide to let go of all the previous shit ( not easy, but if you can imagine it, all the hurt, as a bunch of balloons and just let go, visualise it all just flying away leaving you free and peaceful) then I think you can leave hubby to do what he feels he needs to do as you will also. ( by that I mean these toxic people cease to exist for you, and you have no contact and no guilt!)

Sorry if it sounds a bit happy clappy, but you are the one who has to change your thinking here, accept that they chose how they behave, and you are entitled to live a life free from toxic pointless manipulation.

You can do it! X

Hoofhearted69 Wed 13-Mar-13 12:02:00

Sorry, x posted, just seen last page, sounds like you've done bloody well, that great, keep it up. X

ilovemyelectricblanket Wed 13-Mar-13 17:25:45

Yep. matilda and inertia youre both completely right. And I agree with you both.

Having said that - I cant achieve any of what you suggest. It WILL NOT HAPPEN. This I have learned in 2.5 years. She literally will cut off her nose despite her face!

Sad isnt it.

She WILL stay the same and she WILL try to blackmail and destroy our marriage she CANNOT EVER be trusted not to scream abuse at me DH or our children. She will abuse us again and youre right matilda when we cut them off - we have been made to look petty and unreasonable and will again.

However, this time with wisdom/hindsight and the new strength DH has found and my new position of feeling I can trust him to stand up for himself (and us) - we can have another go and see what happens.

We all realistically know what will happen but this time it will be calmer and the rest of the family might be able to understand us. MIL wont be able to play the victim card to the strength she currently is.

All we have in 'our corner' is the power of 'we forgave' with one condition of it never happending again.

Despite the entire family condoning her behaviour - they do all realise (I think) that she is a fucked up bitch who has really done a number on us. Nobody will ever say that to me or DH but we believe it to be true. So if we allow her back in our lives on those terms then we have the upper hand?? What do you think?

hoof - I would and I could do that. But I cant becuase DH is so sad that he has lost his entire family on the back of this. He is totally ostracised. Thats something I could cope with ... now after 2.5 years of grief but HE cant. So for his sake - I have to do this one more time.... Do you see?

ilovemyelectricblanket Wed 13-Mar-13 17:27:16

hoof youre right. totally right. MIL is vile to her MIL (really really vile) and vile to her brothers sister and her husbands sister. OF COURSE she is going to be vile to me. Took me YEARS to figure this out. Years! smile

utterlyscared1 Wed 13-Mar-13 17:41:47

I'm glad you've sorted things with DH, but please never let MIL back into your lives....... it will start all over again.

I have a MIL like yours (probably worse - counsellor said MIL more than a narc). My MIL has literally destroyed our lives. THe abuse that she subjected my children to was utterly horrific - no one will act as they need "hard evidence". DS in therapy.

I have spent 3 years fighting on behalf of DS with DH wavering between denial and acceptance and 18 months fighting for help for DD. (With no help from DH - whilst he believed it was his mother and he wanted me to report her and get help from various sources, but at no time helped me.) Save to say I am now seen by these people as loony mum who doesn't like her MIL.

My DH gets the texts/e-mails from various family sources (and others we don't even know) saying PIL might die and not see us. After horrendous text of last week, DH has finally and completely accepted MIL's NPD/narc sociopath and is now seeking therapy. But I'm so angry.

Even after finding out what had happened we resumed contact (she had cancer supposedly - but doubt this for a number of reasons that I won't go into). We felt duty bound and who wouldn't visit someone going through this, but others have been told that we never visited, that I never called etc (all lies).

Brushing under the carpet merely reinforces that she's won - she hasn't had to apologise (not that she would she's rewritten the event in her head and others so that it's your fault).

For your sake, your dh's and your DC stay well away - the games will start again.

Yes I feel sorry for your DH immensely as I do mine and to write off his family must be an incredibly hard thing to do. Keep refreshing him with the stately homes thread and other sources of literature on NPD. For my DH it's not cutting off MIL that he's upset about but rather BIL and FIL. However, they are so controlled by her and collude in her actions that they will never see DH without her. DH has finally agreed to see someone, but for me I'm not sure whether it's too late for "us". I feel completely let down as I have fought for DC, not been supported and now have a loony mum tag. I can't change this and I will never get over what happened to DC.

Hugs.

Bunraku Wed 13-Mar-13 17:53:24

Won't go into it but my MIL and SIL are these kinds of people and I'm only 24 so I have many years of gritting my teeth left. Luckily I am relentless and confident enough to tell them when I don't agree. Just remember you married your husband not your MIL.

My best advice is to sit down with your husband and explain the negative effect his parents' behaviour is having on you and the children and the consequence that it could have if things do not switch up.

Your husband is probably just doing his best to avoid conflict after all she is his mother and you are his partner and it is a very awkward position for a man but he must understand that he has committed to you and the children and his mother needs to take a step back, or you and him must take a step back as a family unit but please just talk to him, with no other distractions, just you and him. Talking can solve so much. Make it clear that if he wants to see her, he goes alone.

Ps: ignore the whole "poor me I am the victim" from MIL. It's a cheap tactic that some desperate people are known to use and is quite frankly just pathetic. YOU decide when (or if) you make contact with her. It's YOUR choice not hers. Don't let her dictate to you. Stand up for your family, it's difficult at first but once you've done it you will feel empowered. Don't let her get her foot in the door as such.

candyandyoga Wed 13-Mar-13 18:03:54

I love to when people let us know what has happened! I remember your thread.

Sadly she will do something again. Please keep your children away from her. She sounds awful and will affect them.

Good look and let us know!

utterlyscared1 Wed 13-Mar-13 18:31:45

OP - maybe our respective DH's should chat!!!!!

ilovemyelectricblanket Wed 13-Mar-13 18:37:39

I cant.
We (DH) has to give her one more chance.
I will be vigilant.
utterly - exactly the same. EXACTLY. You poor thing. I can belive how your DH behaviour. Mine was the same. Exactly the same. God. Do you live near me? We should hug!
But my DH has had therapy for past 2 years and is not in denial any more. He gets it now and has taken this long to come to terms with it all.
My DH just like yours feels nothing for his mother but loves his father and misses him. Despite knowing and understanding that his Father emotially blackmails him (weve had the death threats from SIL and FIL and MIL too) and condones MIL behaviour by never standing up to her. MIL makes FIL life a living hell if he says anything to support DH. FIL has made it clear that he will reject DH and grandchildren if DH doesnt allow MIL back in our lives.

Still. Having said all that. DH GETS IT. He has spent this long coming to terms with the fuckuppery of it all and still for the sake of realtionship with his father - wants to give it one more try.

I will support that. One whiff of abuse from PIL and we are all out the door.

Do you all think Im mad?

ProphetOfDoom Wed 13-Mar-13 19:13:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Inertia Wed 13-Mar-13 23:17:51

I think you need to protect your children - regardless of whether you believe the death threats to be serious, it'd be a terrifying thing for children to hear. And I do understand where your DH is coming from about not wanting to be ostracised by the rest of his family- but to be honest I really don't agree that his right to be accepted by a bunch of abusers (because that's what they are if SIl and FIL are making death threats too) trumps the need for his children to be protected.

Did it not occur to DH that one of the reasons (alongside therapy) that you've managed to make things work over the last couple of years is because you've had no contact with his family?

Over and over again his family have proved that they will abuse you, and that they will never change. So you give them once last chance, and they threaten you, and terrify the DCs - and you'll still be in exactly the position you are now, where there's no contact because they refuse to behave like rational human beings. Doesn't matter whether everyone else thinks you're justified in cutting contact- they clearly never will think you are justified, so why put yourselves through the charade and risk unsettling the children?

If I've understood correctly, you're doing this because DH feels that he has to have one last chance at salvaging the relationship. The problem is that this isn't just a question of affecting how he copes- there are ramifications and consequences for you and the DC too.

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 14-Mar-13 11:17:29

Death threats meaning that FIL could die and it would be our fault because of all the stress we are casuing him.
Good point inertia about us doing so well because they are not in our world. Bloody good point.
What a mess.
They wont change.
I dont know what to do.
If we dont do anything. We carry on living under the stress of them thinking we are shits and telling us so for the rest of their lives.
Its not a comfortable place to be.
DH misses his father and wants our DCs to have a relationship with him.
FIL has made it clear he wont have nothing to do with any of us DH included unless we allow MIL back.
Total blackmail.
Im so confused.

Inertia Thu 14-Mar-13 13:40:28

I just don't see what you as a family can hope to gain. Because there will always be something else that MIL goes nuclear over, and they will all take her side. And you'll always, always be treading on eggshells.

"If we don't do anything. We carry on living under the stress of them thinking we are shits and telling us so for the rest of their lives."

And if you instigate more contact with them they'll just have more opportunities to tell you this. It won't make them think any differently about you. They'll still blame you for everything- probably more so because their perception will be that you can't or won't stand up for yourselves as a family unit, that you're pushovers and they'll just push more grief your way because it's worked so well already in getting you to do what they want.

DH wants a happy family. His family will never be the loving caring support he hopes for. He can never bend enough to accommodate them- the stress will just break him.

But the two of you have the opportunity to start a new chapter in family life. You are the mother and the father. You can make your own family the way you want it to be.

Miggsie Thu 14-Mar-13 13:54:01

Why does your DH want a relationship with his father? His father stands by and watches him being abused and does nothing to stop his mental suffering, and he'll do the same to your kids.

Has your DH worked out what it is htat makes him want a relationship here? It suggests that he still has a need to see his abuser - although in a watered down version - so he really needs to continue the therapy.
FIL seems to revolve around placating MIL - to that end, he is no father, he is the sidekick of a total bully and he won't ever be a decent father, or even person, as he just takes instructions from the head bully. Your MIL is the head bully in a gang, your FIL is her second in command, who joins in the bullying in order to avoid being the victim and the rest of the family fall into line due to fear - and not wanting to be the victim.

Your DH must stop being their victim- he is an easy target. If you cut them out they will simply move to another victim, and as long as your DH remains in contact HE is the easy easy easy target for MIL. I bet FIL is just wanting your DH to be the victim so he isn't. The power dynamics of such a bullying gang are very complex and keeping your victim on a string is the option they will go for over all others - grooming a new victim could take years.

Your DH must somehow realise his father is just as bad as his mother - he just isn't in charge of the gang, but he makes sure it runs fine.

diddl Thu 14-Mar-13 13:57:32

"FIL has made it clear that he will reject DH and grandchildren if DH doesnt allow MIL back in our lives."shock

Don't let them back in-they are as bad as each other!

BegoniaBampot Thu 14-Mar-13 14:04:06

Glad for the update, I posted on the original thread. I understand your husband feels he needs to do this, unfortunately from what you have said it all sounds doomed. I doubt you all make it through the first meeting as feelings will be running so high and sounds like your MIL just can't help herself and with all the lack mail and ultimatums, nothing has changed. Sooner she goes batshit the better TBH, then you can withdraw and enjoy your life again.

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 14-Mar-13 14:06:10

I know. Its so sad.
My husband has done so well in coming to terms with this and accepting it.
Its so much harder to walk away that it sounds.

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 14-Mar-13 14:24:35

inertia - youre right. dh has worked so hard accepting this fact. the fact they they are abusers (all dressed up in upper middle class darling). he is in therapy and he does get it. its been so sad watching him come to terms with all this. its been so hard for me to watch. the last 2.5 years have been hell and I was feeling strong enough to try again. probably opening up the hell of the last 2.5 years all over again - which this time - I fear we wont survive.

its all so shocking.

miggsie - YES YES YES. I still cant quite believe ive managed to explain all this and people get it. youve got it exactly right. mil total ringleader and the rest of the family are secretly delighted that while we are getting her venom - they arent. noone has ever said that screaming abuse at me, my children and my husband on Christmas day 2.5 years ago is unacceptable behaviour.

dh can see his father as an abuser now - as an adult but as a child he saw him as his hero. sometimes protecting him from her and sometimes not. FIL basically taught DH to do exactly what MIL tells him to do for DH own safety. My husband doesnt even know how to pick a restaurant on a night out - he has been denied his own opinion for so long. sad

ive considered professional mediation. i would just love someone to tell me that it is officially hopeless and we can move on.

i would love to salvage some relationships with other members of his family.

i just dont want to have to think about this any more.

how can i get this fucking well over with?

I want dh to either reconcile and we go though (or we dont??) go through the whole hideous experience all over again.

or i want dh to tell them ITS OVER and we start the business of healing.

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 14-Mar-13 14:28:49

bergonia - i can only dream....

IloveJudgeJudy Thu 14-Mar-13 14:48:12

Forgive me if this is the wrong question, but why do you/DH actually have to speak to them and tell them it's all over? Can't you ignore any overtures from them? I do understand as I have an abusive father whom DM protected for a long time and wouldn't come and visit anyone without him, but finally she has realised that we can't put up with it. I have three siblings and we were the black sheep, even though we were the ones who had the most sh*t and tried to be the most reconciling. We shouldn't have tried to placate anybody at all, we should have just stood up for ourselves. We fell for the "I'm so sorry" line a couple of times, but life is much better now without him in it. He's not well at all at the moment, but I try not to think about him at all. It's hard as he wasn't 100% bad when I was small, but he did make life hell at times and has got worse as he's got older.

I wish you luck in whatever you choose. I sympathise completely as I know it's so hard.

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 14-Mar-13 15:02:15

I think DH can do that. For me - I need some kind of closure.
Some sort of This Is It moment.
I dont know why?
Im sorry youve had to go through the same sort of thing. Its utterly ghastly and Im sure makes me (and indeed you) a better person/parent for it.

Inertia Thu 14-Mar-13 15:02:47

I think Judge Judy is right- you don't have to tell them anything. Whenever you and DH have moved on and reconciled for yourselves, then you can just ignore and block contact. Don't give them the power to argue or respond, just disappear from their lives.

I think you might be right to say that DH needs "permission" from somebody professional to close the door on this. And Miggsie is very astute- everyone else needs him and you to carry on being the victims, because you can bet your bottom dollar that somebody else is copping all of MIL's anger while you are out of the picture.

ilovemyelectricblanket Thu 14-Mar-13 19:32:48

Well. Ive done a complete u turn since logging on to tell you how pleased we are with ourselves.... Im glad I did tho.
DH is with his therapist toinght - so will wait and see what he has to day. But yesterday he told me that this has reminded him of how awful it all was 2.5 years ago and that we will be mad to let her back in.
I think all I want is to know what we are doing. I hate all this will we/wont we stuff.
Ill report back once he has got back.
x

Inertia Thu 14-Mar-13 19:54:23

Glad to hear he's willing to consider all your options. Good luck x

utterlyscared1 Fri 15-Mar-13 08:07:55

OP, have a busy morning, but will PM you this afternoon.

Glad your DH is coming round to making this decision. For my DH he has long accepted his mother's issues. It has been the decision to cut off contact with his family that he has struggled with. I know that this has been incredibly difficult for him but he now accepts that there is no other way. Thankfully he has recently confided in a close friend who is reminding him why he shouldn't visit when we get the emotional blackmail via texts and e-mails reminding us of their age and impending death.

I am so sorry for you and your family.

We moved away from them 2.5 years ago, but feel like we will never "escape". MIL is relentless and never gives in until she gets her way and hence we know that the e-mails and texts will continue. With my MIL, however, she can be incredibly charming outside of the family (although bitches about everyone, but others are not aware what she says about them). It's therefore v difficult to get others to believe us (apart from our close friends who know us).

Hugs x

forgetmenots Fri 15-Mar-13 09:07:24

OP I didn't see your first thread but I've been in almost EXACTLY the same situation over the last eight years with my MIL (would honestly have thought you were my BIL's partner but for a few details).

I don't know if this helps. But I did a similar thing to you - I supported DH but decided I was playing no part in his family after some really abusive behaviour. It meant that the last time I saw any of them was my wedding day. It's been years, DH still went to see them in vain hope, hurting himself all the while and I was there to pick up the pieces

About 18 months ago though he decided he too had had enough after his mother (not for the first time) threatened suicide just so he would have it on his conscience, after another round of abuse. In that period there has been harassment o us at our home, pressure from other ILs, even the security at DH's workplace had been informed.

I'm 27 weeks pregnant and the ILs don't even know. A couple of trusted family members do, which involved DH finally telling them what his mother is like with him. They knew she was 'difficult' but of course had no idea how bad it was, and the support he has had has been amazing. DH knows that even if we felt strong enough, our child isn't. I know from experience too that as robust as DH might feel beforehand, he turns into a little scared boy around MIL and may not realise. I suspect your DH is similar.

He's telling you he has doubts - listen to them because what he is telling you is that he may not be as strong as he thinks. He may never be when confronted with her. That's why completely no contact is the only thing that's improved our lives at all - DH isn't scared any more and is focusing on being a great husband and soon-to-be dad, rather than pouring energy into being a son who is never good enough.

I'm on stately homes (like many on this thread!) and it truly has been a great support whenever I'm unsure or feeling intimidated again. If I were you OP (and I was!) don't let her back in. Again you could allow DH to see her, and maybe with DCs at neutral public venues where in my experience these people are less likely to kick off. You don't have to do this and I don't think it does her any harm to see that there are some people who she cannot sway or control. Good luck xx

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 15-Mar-13 16:41:25

There are people out there that really do know what Ive been/going though. I could weep with relief.

utterly we have always lived over 5 hour drive away. It has its obvious benefits but also negatives because when she visits - its always for a loooong weekend.

My MIL does a good impression of normal on the surface too so its hard to really get through to people how toxic she really is. Im glad your DH has got to grips with it. He is amazing.

forgetme - I wish you were my SIL. sad The suicide threat is awful isnt it. The ultimate form of control along side a mother withholding love.
Congratulations on your lovely bump! How exciting. smile You protect yourselves fiercely when that baby comes along. My MIL screamed the house down threatening me and making me feel like shit when our first born was born. 40 hours after giving birth I was making HER tea while she looked down her nose at me. She didnt even ask me how I was. I was so vulnerable and upset and then she wouldnt go away. The entire family rang text rang text blackmailing us and then FIL ripped chunks out of DH telling how shit he was and we were for not letting her stay with us etc etc etc. DH curled up in a ball on the floor on lounge (no sleep for 2 days by now) sobbing silently while his father ripped him to pieces. It ruined the experience for me (us) and the stress stopped my breas tmilk so she stole that from me as well. She didnt speak to me for 6 months after that - and all because I wanted some privacy.

So if your in laws get whiff of your pregnancy - be on guard.

I have to stop now. Too upset to continue. But basically - its all come back to me now and we wont be contacting them.

I just find it all so hard to live with. I want an ending and I dont know how to find one.

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 15-Mar-13 16:53:43

Basically - seeing all this written down and reliving it so to speak again has helped. I think the fullness of time had dulled the reality of what happened and what were up against. So I think we need to stay as we are are keep them away.

I just wish I could live with it easier. I always feel bad for DH because its ALL MY FAULT (its not) and I see his sadness.

Thank goodness I had this to come back too. Thank you all. Thank you. xx

ilove
You have to make your own ending. By giving MIL one more chance you are actually creating the situation where she makes the ending for you i.e. when she reverts to being a total bitch again then she effectively gives you permission to walk away. You are really giving her the power to create the ending when she choses.

Maybe the ending doesn't have to be absolute. Maybe it can be like giving up smoking when you just decide not to have the next cigarette, you just decide not to contact the PIL today or this week.

ilovemyelectricblanket Fri 15-Mar-13 17:05:40

chaz thats a really good way of looking at it. i like. i will ponder.
youre right about giving her the chance to end it when she chooses. because i really do know it will happen again. sooner/later - all depends on how long she can keep control of herself or how long we bend over backwards to meet all her needs. either way it will happen.
thank you.

justaaaarrrghghggh Fri 15-Mar-13 22:41:47

chaz - good point, but by the same token electricblanket can also choose her ending.

as soon as mil crosses the line, blanket can say 'ENOUGH'. line drawn. job done. dignity kept.

maddening Fri 15-Mar-13 23:31:11

Read the thread now and actually think you have saved your dh from his family ! He's lucky to have someone like you.

Just

If there was a reasonable chance MIL would change her behaviour then perhaps it would be different. However, she will flip again so that's why it feels to me that letting her back in is looking for closure by way of one final " this is it" showdown.

Noideaatall Sat 16-Mar-13 00:23:02

ilove she sounds horrible. It took me a long long time to realise that some people are just not nice and will not change. Do what's best for you & your DC because you & your DC are most important. If that means cutting off contact then do it. I did it with one side of my family, and have never looked back. I don't regret it for a moment.

Inertia Sat 16-Mar-13 00:37:50

Just - but ilovemyelectricblanket doesn't need to wait for something else to happen. She and her dh can say 'enough' now, based on what has already taken place. It sounds as though they have shown astonishing dignity under the circumstances.

They are under no obligation to give MIL any kind of last chance or warning.

Ilove - the more you post about FIL the nastier he seems. He and MIL seem to have a bit of a double act going on. Your post about how they treated you and DH after thr birth is just horrific - attackingyou both while you were vulnerable. Does DH feel he somehow has to prove himself to his father ? If so, the best thing he could do would be to show that he will protect his family in the face of threats and blackmail.

You don't have to tell the ILs anything. You can just carry on ignoring and blocking. Carry on making it your decision to have no contact. Doing nothing is a perfectly accetable way forward .

diddl Sat 16-Mar-13 09:10:11

"Doing nothing is a perfectly acceptable way forward."

I would agree with that.

No need for a big announcement which they can use to bad mouth you to all & sundry.

ProphetOfDoom Sat 16-Mar-13 09:48:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

springlamb Sat 16-Mar-13 10:07:34

I second (or 3rd or 4th, wherever we are) doing nowt.

I decided a long time ago that certain sections of the family were just total negative influences. There was no great huge row, just a constant drip-drip of sad behaviour. So I did nowt.
When anyone brings it up, I explain it as "it's not that I'm not talking to them, I'm just happier if I'm not talking to them".
So I continue to do nowt and life is much less stressful without their shenanigans.

BegoniaBampot Sat 16-Mar-13 10:38:28

Ilove - after reading you last posts and how your husband responded to his father having a go at him I really think you would be better off staying as you are and not opening yourselves up to all that again. thank god you live so far away. Grown man reacting to his parents by sobbing on the floor reflects a totally fucked up and abusive relationship,does you husband realise how abnormal this is, this isn't how loving parent/child relationships are. How bad does it have to get before you call it a day as it all sounds so horrendous already.

I know I said it will probably all kick off again on the first meeting but what if it doesn't. What if she behaves herself just enough that you feel you have to keep contact until she finally kicks off. What way is that to live, I doubt your husband will be able to deal with that, I don't think he is strong enough against his parents, all his therapy and self realising will go out the window and it could set you all back to square one.

I have a toxic father, pretty screwed up and really I feel nothing for him anymore really, apart from pity that he is now a pathetic old man who no one loves and has created this by his abusive, unrational behaviour. But he has no where near this power over me, I think your poor husband is on a whole other level. I really fear for you all if you let them back I to your life.

ilovemyelectricblanket Sat 16-Mar-13 13:05:44

He didnt realise but does now.
Therapy has really really helped and he IS so much stonger. He was always told his family was perfect and never being able to have his own opinion - he never questioned it. Till I came along.... sad
The Doing Nothing Theory is a new one on me. The more I consider it - the more I like it. Its quiet, unassuming and effective. All I want is peace of mind.
But doing nothing takes agreement between me and DH and he still doesnt know what he wants to do. Ultimately - if he wants to try again with them - them I will have to consider. Over my dead body will I allow DH to take DCs to spend time with them without me. Thats a failing on my part - but its exactly what MIL wants - me out of the picture and I cant trust my beautiful children with someone as damaged as she.
So - basically - I sit and wait for DH or PIL to make a decision while I wait and wait and wait.
When all I want is a decision made.
Isnt 2.5 years long enough to wait? How much more do I need to do?
Im tired of being patient and living under a cloud.

ilovemyelectricblanket Sat 16-Mar-13 13:15:54

bergonia - exactly right. i suspect she will behave just enough to get to the DCs and spend time with DH and we will all be polite and MIL gets what she wants.
this could go on for years. DH like to think that with his new found strength and knowldge (and help of therapist) - that we wont make decisions based on what SHE wants but on what works for us.

ie. i wont be cooking, cleaning and tidying while she sits back, ingnoring me and indulging in DCs and DH.

we like to think that we will say she can visit for the day but then go home instead of her coming fri, sat and then sun. which was exhausting and meant we didnt have any quality time all weekend. then MIl would go home and put her feet up while I slogged on with DCs. (I had 2 babies in one year - its been knackering).

we like to think we would be able to say NO and she accept it without her screaming her head off and then FIL, SIL calling texting to say we have been horrible etc.

I dont know what will happend and I dont know how DH will cope.

Can it get any worse? If she does it again. Its over. Decision made. She made it herself and we move on?

Thats been the theory. But I see its horribly flawed.

bergonia im sorry about you father. you sound like you have got your head screwed on. smile

diddl Sat 16-Mar-13 13:23:30

It's just horrible-that your husband has been reduced to tears but still feels he owes these people.

Hard for others to understand.

My MIL was always tiptoed around-although she always said what she wanted.

OMG-the performance/drama when she said something I didn't like & was told by her son that that wasn't on.

She was in tears & clinging onto my husband & asking if he still loved her??!!

Well,of course all it did was make my husband recoil in horror really at such a display.

shewhowines Sat 16-Mar-13 13:30:18

I haven't read it all but I would say that you have to step back and detach from it all. Let it all go over your head. You never need to see them and neither do the children unless they themselves want to.

However, it is up to DH if HE wants to see them. He may love them despite knowing their flaws. He should be able to see them with no guilt tripping from you BUT he must accept that you don't want anything to do with them and you don't even want to hear about them/of them or about any of his meetings with them.

Step back and let it go all over your head. They are not your concern. Don't even waste two minutes thinking of them.

Leave it to your husband to do what he wants to do.

Inertia Sat 16-Mar-13 13:48:08

Begonia's right- it's not a normal state of affairs for a new father to be crying on the floor because of the onslaught of abuse from his father. The role of a new father is to help care for his new child and the child's mother, and beam proudly at everyone as he shows off this fantastic new person that they've made, and to be generally overjoyed if exhausted.

Maybe a change of perspective would help you Ilove- the status quo is the way it is going to be unless something drastic changes things. In your own mind, there is no contact and there will be no contact. It might be that the something drastic is that at some point in the future DH feels able to tackle his family and he instigates a change, which is to renew contact.

The problem with renewing contact until MIL kicks off again is that you would still be leaving the issue up to her- she'll be deciding how long she leaves it before crossing the line again. You'll still be under a cloud and waiting for her to call the shots- but with the added hassle of contact in the meantime. It feels like your under a cloud now, but at least you're not under a cloud with the ILs screaming at you about the weather and poking you with umbrellas.

Inertia Sat 16-Mar-13 13:49:54

you're (sorry, small child hassling me!)

ilovemyelectricblanket Sun 17-Mar-13 19:16:13

Thanks all.... going to leave it all for now.
If we do do it - we probably need a better plan of action.
Its been REALLY good to take the rose tinted glasses off for a bit and remember how ghastly it really was.
Next upate.... soon.
x

ilovemyelectricblanket Sun 26-May-13 09:24:19

Hi All,

Husband is going to see them today. Lots of faffing around and lots of arguing.

The long and short of it is that our marriage cant take much more of the pressure and he eithers sorts it out or ends it. One way or another we HAVE to move out from under this dark cloud weve been living under for 2.5 years.

So he sees them today at midday.

I don't know what Im doing.

DontmindifIdo Sun 26-May-13 09:29:58

good luck - are you and the DCs staying at home and he's going alone? Then this might be as good as it gets now, he needs to be ready to cut them out, you can only cut them out of your life and your DCs lives, you can't make him be ready to shut that door until he is.

ilovemyelectricblanket Sun 26-May-13 09:41:22

Yes. Me, children and puppy staying home. Im doing the ironing?!

I think he is ready. Hopefully also for all the right reasons.

He has spent the last 2.5 years coming to terms with the fact that they would rather loose him than admit any wrong doing.

So this is to end it once and for all.

Not that that will make him happy - but at least we can move on instead of living in limbo.

diddl Sun 26-May-13 09:42:35

Hopefully by seeing them alone, he might see them for what they are-especially if it's only him always putting up with their barrage of abuse.

Cerisier Sun 26-May-13 09:42:42

Good luck, I hope today goes well. I can't believe how long this has gone on for you. xx

diddl Sun 26-May-13 09:43:44

Oh, sorry-do you mean he's going to see them to cut contact?

BookieMonster Sun 26-May-13 09:45:03

I think it's time for you to draw your line in the sand. The PILs play no more part in your lives or that of your DC.

ilovemyelectricblanket Sun 26-May-13 10:05:11

Hes going to see them to see if there is anything there that they can see was poor behaviour.
One last chance to discuss it.
If they wont/don't. Then he is ending it.
Bookie youre right. I haven't had DH support to really do this. I have drawn many lines in the sand. But he knows if he asked me (which he never has because he has had his own head in the sand) that I would see them again for DH sake.
But youre right - I do need to draw a line.
I have said that if they cant apologise or even try to or understand that what they did that Christmas was out of order. Then I wont see them again.

And the one thing I have always been consistent about - is that they wont be seeing our children without me being there.

I don't trust them.

diddl Sun 26-May-13 11:32:10

He can put up with their shit if he wants to.

He shouldn't expect anyone else to.

They don't deserve to see your children & imo your children shouldn't be subjected to their abuse.

I would suggest that for his own sake he shouldn't see them.

He doesn't have to make a big announcement about cutting contact to them.

Just stop the contact himself & not answer/reply if they contact.

fedupofnamechanging Sun 26-May-13 11:55:49

Hi OP. In your shoes I would utterly refuse to have any contact or allow my dc to have any contact with them, regardless of what my husband had to say on the matter.

I think your primary responsibility has to be protecting your dc from abusers and the only way to do that is to refuse all contact. If you see them, then you are giving your children a message that on some level these people are 'okay'.

I would encourage dh not to see them either, but ultimately he is an adult and will have to make that choice for himself. However, I would change my phone number or block them so contact is not easy for them.

ilovemyelectricblanket Sun 26-May-13 12:08:17

I agree totally.
DH can and should do as pleases him.
I wont see them nor will DCs unless they apologise and accept that their behaviour was totally out of order.
They wont do this.
So it will be over for me (relief).
I do need closure tho.
Not sure how that comes about - but I need closure because we are heading for some kind of depression otherwise and our marriage is on its knees.

RobotLover68 Sun 26-May-13 15:29:51

I'm not sure you're going to get the closure you're looking for. I went for counselling for the same reasons, although in my case it's my own parents who are toxic - in the end I had to come to terms with there are no answers, they will never accept that their behaviour is unacceptable because they don't see anything wrong with it - the only person you can control is yourself. I came to that conclusion and now I just keep them at arms length, talk to them if they phone me, but there is zero effort on my part and I managed to emotionally detach. I am a lot happier for it.

Euphemia Sun 26-May-13 16:33:42

I hope a satisfactory conclusion is reached today. sad

Hissy Sun 26-May-13 17:23:10

You are not going to get closure though.

You just need to let it go, and stop thinking about them.

IF your H does what he really does need to do, and end it with them, you are going to have to support him a little. That stuff hurts like a bastard. He'd really benefit from some counselling tbh.

In time he'll feel free, and it will be better. Pangs of sadness and guilt will ripple in from time to time, but eventually it all hurts a little less.

I wish you all the very best of luck. I hope today was decisive for your H.

diddl Sun 26-May-13 17:50:50

Surely if you get closure in the form of an apology-they'll expect to then carry on as usual??

I agree-decide that you & the kids won't see them-that's good enough, isn't it?

And support your husband if he decides not to see them anymore.

ilovemyelectricblanket Sun 26-May-13 20:59:12

Will write more tomorrow. He talked and they actually listened.
He goes to see them again tomorrow to see if they 'have something to say'.

Yes. An apology will bring closure. I just want to know if one is going to come or not.

And yes. If he decides not to see them again - I will love and support him. Its not what I want for him.

Ive got to go but back tomorrow. Thank you all.

Apileofballyhoo Sun 26-May-13 22:16:38

I also have a toxic mil and a fil who goes along with her. If your DH can emotionally withdraw that would be great. It's very painful to face reality. My DH has come to see that spending time with his M makes him unhappy so he just tries to avoid it as much as possible. I would love if they lived 5 hours away. My sympathy to you. Stay strong. You choose what's right for you and your DCs. Eventually your DH will stop wanting to please her. He is breaking the habit of a lifetime, which began when he was a tiny powerless child. He is no longer powerless but he needs to realise that himself. Good luck.

Hissy Mon 27-May-13 08:41:58

My mother listened.

She only adjusted tactics. She realised how close se was to me saying Shove It, so to keep her feed of someone to be the scapegoat, she apologised, but only after a good 15 seconds of angry staring in the distance, then a snap and the tears. You're asking for fundamentally damaged and nasty people to adopt a personality transplant.

Remain detached, stay away, and don't flinch.

Your H has to follow through and take a break from them anyway, at the very least.

If he falls for their speil, he'll be sucked back in with the hope of them changing.

They can't change. They don't want to. Not without a serious and dramatic event, and even then, odds are against them wising up.

Hissy Mon 27-May-13 08:52:14

Meant to say, someone said that an apology is worthless, it just gives them the green light to carry on as before, forgiven for past horrors.

"What's the problem?we apologised for that already, get over it."

Think about what you've written. Your DH went to talk to them about how they treat you.

He's having to GO BACK to find out what they have to say. IF they even have anything to say.

Normal people, when confronted with a situation where they've even mildly offended someone, would apologise there and then, they'd be mortified, and they'd come TO YOU to apologise, AND they'd never do it again!

His parents are sitting in their throne room, waiting for a little boy to come back and ask them again to spare him and his family from cruel and tyrannical behaviour.

Your DH, if this were anyone else, would feel able to say what he felt, and tell THEM to think about it and come seek HIM out when they had done so.

I know how hard this is, dysfunctional families like this are so hard to get through without therapy. Please get him to consider it? It'll be the greatest thing he's ever done in his life.

ilovemyelectricblanket Mon 27-May-13 11:10:16

yes. you all make such sense.
I was so pissed off last night for another ruined weekend.
dh knows that I cant take much more of this and yesterday was essentially to end it.
he understands they are toxic and that what the last 2.5 years has been about. him coming to terms with it.
ive made it clear our marriage has suffered and it (let alone me) cant take any more of the doom and gloom we currently live under.
it has to end today. one way or another.
I will never condone their awful behaviour. I nearly caved in. I nearly caved in. Im proud that I haven't. I reached out to my own family who id never told and with their support I stayed true to myself and what is right.

it is hard.

he is there now. god know why.

im angry. home alone again with the kids and the dog. car less because he off to see the 'whites of their eyes'.

this has to end today.

ill be back guys. hope your bank holiday weekend is better than mine.

thanks for listening. and thanks for not leaving me to feel like im the only one with damaged, spiteful, toxix pil.

ill be on this later.... wine

ilovemyelectricblanket Mon 27-May-13 11:16:37

hissy yes. normal people behave that way. I cant believe he is going back for more. im giving him this weekend to sort his shit out. and then its done.

and trust me when I say it will never be the same again. If we do allow then access again. it will be supervised. one step out of line and its done. forever.

im shocked how messed up they are. proper wealthy upper class, privately educated fuck wits. and I married into it all.

thank god for my family. our marriage is literally still functioning up by each member of MY family with their shoulders metaphorically shoring us up.

im so tired.

ilovemyelectricblanket Mon 27-May-13 18:26:42

Well - DH went to see them. Apparently they agree with everything he has said yesterday. They are regretful (never sorry).

DH made it clear that they have a week to make these new and profound feelings clear to me and then we see what we want to do from there.

Im under no illusions here.

But my good name, reputation and self esteem have taken a battering from this woman and I deserve an apology and for the rest of the family to be put straight.

We will see.

Hissy Mon 27-May-13 21:17:45

To be honest, as in all abusive relationships, there's no unringing this bell.

You know what they did, he knows what they did. They SAY they know what they did, but to change... nah, I don't think there are a month of Sundays coming anytime soon.

They are 'regretful' only cos he's said to admit it or he'll cut them off.

Don't flinch, don't blink. Regretful isn't good enough, and anyway, too little, too late. Some hurts never heal.

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