To not allow my child to fly to the states

(35 Posts)
trustissues75 Tue 31-Jan-12 12:17:23

Ugh, where to start. I've just about had enough and at my wit's end. In a nutshell my not so DH abandoned me and my son in the UK in March 2010. Since then he has quit his job, moved to the USA, lied, cheated, witheld all of our belongings save for a couple of small bags of clothes. He has bullied me, told me unless I send the boy to the states that he would go for full custody and have son removed permenantly from the UK. He has mad an application in the states trying to make out I've abducted our son, he has lied about his finances, he has lied about how this all came about. He has consistently ignored my solicitors correspondance, has tried to say I've secreted son away from him because I wouldn't give him our exact address out of fear of abduction, has tried to discredit me with my solicitor and has gotten his lawyer to call me personally to try to talk to me about me "refusing to share time" with our son. He has ignored a residence order issued here in the UK and denys any knowledge of it. He has refused to come and visit (supervised as per solicitors' advice) refuses to skype with son (lawyer has told him not to). He calls twice a week. He has made accusations of child abuse, of me being on antipsychotic medications (I'm not). We have a concilliatory hearing next week at the court to try to sort out visitation, but he wont be appearing because he denys that he's had any correspondance from the court. He left us with nothing. And now, to top it all, he has stopped sending child support (verbal agreement) unless I put the boy on a plane. He knows that doing this will put us at risk of homelessness and some days I seriously consider agreeing to his demands and sending the boy over...against the advice of every lawyer/solicitor I've spoken to. I just can't take any more. Every day I question myself: whether I am the bitch he's making me out to be, whether I am the bad mother he makes me out to be, whether it's me who's perception is screwed. I've just had enough and really dont' know what to do anymore.

squeakytoy Tue 31-Jan-12 12:22:18

You need to be in the Legal Section I think, but no, dont put your child on a plane, as from what you have written, I doubt your ex would allow him to come back.

You really do need to sort this out via the courts.

You are not a bitch, nor a bad mother, and from what you have written it doesnt sound like your perception is skewed either.

aquafunf Tue 31-Jan-12 12:22:34

don't put your child on a plane. it sounds like you would never see him again.
assuming you are uk resident, work out how you can live without the child support that he is not sending. think of it like being the single parent you are. any extra that turns up is a bonus.

legal stuff, i dont know but it sounds like your solicitor has it covered.

you are not the bitch he is making you out to be. you are a strong woman, not agreeing with him and not bending at will

keep at it.

Ghoulwithadragontattoo Tue 31-Jan-12 12:22:57

Do not send your son anywhere. Listen to your solicitor they have your best interests at heart.

Oh god, I'm so sorry.

Do NOT send your son there. It will not solve any problems and could be very damaging for him. It's also incredibly easy to disappear in the states, you must not risk it.

If you have a good solicitor, follow their advice. You are NOT psycho or a bitch or a bad mum. He is clearly deranged.

WorraLiberty Tue 31-Jan-12 12:25:35

No, don't send your son anywhere

I agree, it doesn't sound as though he'd send him back sad

AThingInYourLife Tue 31-Jan-12 12:26:44

Don't send him.

JustHecate Tue 31-Jan-12 12:28:18

Are you british or american?

Just wondering if that would make any difference - I am not a lawyer but I am wondering if your and your son's nationality would make a difference - if your husband is going through US courts, would they be able to rule if you are UK citizens?

You really really really need to go to court here and have some sort of order banning him from taking your son out of the country. Go get additional legal advice. There are lawyers who specialise in this sort of thing.

OhTheConfusion Tue 31-Jan-12 12:29:37

Please do not send your son anywhere. Seek further advice.

Do you have family in the uk?

ZZZenAgain Tue 31-Jan-12 12:31:43

under the circumstances I think you would be quite mad to send your son to him in USA. He quite obviously wants to keep him there.

ceebie Tue 31-Jan-12 12:32:27

Sorry, just wondering, do you always refer to your son as "the boy"? I'm not having a go at you, everyone has their own expressions, just seems to me a slightly odd way to refer to your DS?

ZZZenAgain Tue 31-Jan-12 12:33:11

I agree with Hecate, I think you must try and get a court decision in the UK. Please speak to your solicitor about the advisability of doing this and how to go about it. Sorry the financial side of things is getting overwhelming. I know so little about all this , I wouldn't like to advise you incorrectly. I hope things get better, surely they will be settled in time and he will calm down

Skelacia Tue 31-Jan-12 12:52:07

ceebie I refer to my DS as The Boy all the time and DD as The Girl, doesn't mean anything untoward, just the nickname of the moment. (At the risk of outing myself it used to be Senor Ambassador Chubbley du Cronkyponts for the boy but that's a bit of a mouthful grin)

canihavesome Tue 31-Jan-12 12:57:08

Is the boy a US citizen and are both you and his dad? US courts are usually very reluctant to grant residency of their citizens to a parent living outside the USA.

mummytime Tue 31-Jan-12 13:05:57

Do not allow the boy out of the UK. Listen to your lawyer.
You should probably contact the UK ports, to alert them that someone might try to take your son out of the country.
Stop taking any phone calls from him, make all communication come through your solicitors. Keep records of all offered access, but it should not be unsupervised.

You need to check what benefits you are entitled to and ensure you are getting all you can. If your solicitor cannot advise on this, go and talk to your CAB.

Do not be quiet, but make sure everyone knows what is going on.

Yes I refer to DS as The Boy all the time as well.

Canihavesome, I think it's a bit different if the child is already resident in the other country and the subject of legal proceedings in that country.

If the child is in the UK, is also a UK citizen, has a British mum, the divorce and custody are being handled by the UK courts, then I don't think the US would swoop in and challenge the UK court rulings. Even if they did, I don't see how they would be enforceable.

trustissues75 Tue 31-Jan-12 13:12:41

Thank you ladies. This is a regular occurance for me - questioning myself - becaue he's so good at getting you to believe you are the one who is wrong.

I do have family in the UK (I'm UK born and bred) and I dont think I would have made it this far without them.

"The Boy", yes, I use it a lot of the time when referring to him on the net, but it is meant with the greatest of affections (and we used to refer to him as Grumplestiltskin as a baby smile )

I have an interim residence order at the moment - the ex did not show at the hearing here in the UK and so the judge granted maintaining the "status" quo and set another hearing in the hopes that the ex would make an appearance (telephonicaly) - I guess that won't be happening next week though since he obviously won't be attending the hearing - which again probably puts us back at square one again and another hearing..all the while the barrister's and solicitor's legal fees racking up on the meter.

The US application - I spoke to a very very knowledgable US attorney a week agao (who had actually had an e-mail fro the ex just a few weeks earlier with his story of this crazed nut job of a woman who had abducted his child and had never in 5 years looked after his son) and this lawyer assured me that the US has absoloutly no jurisdiction since son has never lived in the state from where the petition originated and since the boy has lived in the UK for a year and has an active residence order in place that the US court will be forced to defer to the UK jurisdiction, but that doesn't help my worry and distrss. The ex is so calm and cool and collected about it all it makes me wonder what he has up his sleeve. Logic tells me nothing, I've even read and re-read the particular piece of state legislature that referrs to decicions regarding venue and jurisdiction myself and it clearly states that there is no jurisdiction. With the help of a US lawyer I have filed a motion to dismiss and have been assured by 3 separate lawyers that the motion will be granted...and yet still I'm awake at all hours of the morning fretting...while trying to work and be a mum. It's illogical I know...but I feel so hopeless and frightened and I'm so sick of the bare faced lies. I can't understand why he can't just talk with me instead of stonewalling me, strong arming me and making up his own little version of reality...which then puts me back into the cycle of quetioning my sanity and moral compass. Friends, family, strangers who hear my stroy tell me he's simply on a power trip, using the boy as a stick to beat me take away his power by not reacting, by just withdrawing from any conversation with him...I'm just done with the whole thing.

Kladdkaka Tue 31-Jan-12 13:26:51

trustissues75 if he is claiming child abduction the relevant legislation is The Hague Convention. Here is some info I found that may help set your mind at rest.

Kladdkaka Tue 31-Jan-12 13:28:46

You will probably never understand why he's doing this. He sounds absolutely delusional and horrible.

Your friends are right -- it must be hard but try not to talk or interact with him.

trustissues75 Tue 31-Jan-12 13:32:05

Kladdkaka - that's what I though - and yet he's not invoked the Hague and didn't make any kind of application until November 2011 - which is a UCCJEA application, not a Hague application. With all the bare faced lying I have been often surprised he didn't try to invoke it - but then again I have written proof that he left us here permenantly and that he was going to return to us, permenantly, as soon as he could (that was before he went off on holiday, statred an affair and then called me up to say he wanted a divorce and to splease send his to to South Korea for a "visit" - of course, trusting me was going to do it, but fortunately a friend stepped in and told me to get some advice before I did anything like that, thank God.) Thanks for the link - I'm off to read...

I'm sorry, he wanted you to send DS to South Korea for a visit???

I have a hard time believing anyone is taking him seriously, which is good news for you.

trustissues75 Tue 31-Jan-12 14:01:17

Yes, that's correct, he was stationed in South Korea...boy did he blow a gasket when I told him he would have to come visit here because of jurisdictional issues...but it's hard because from an outsiders point of view it could ben seen that I'm just being vindictive and nasty and he is actually going for the whole Parental Alienation Syndrom thing which seems to be so popular in the US and even British courts these days. I've asked him again and again to come see the boy...he's had the temerity to suggest that they only reason I want him to come here is so I can "woo him into my wishes" ie to persuade him to take us back....yes, sure, I really do want to endure another 7 years of thinking I'm this unreasonable bitch who is simply ungrateful and a burden to him....funny thing is I actually believed I was an unreasonable and ungrateful bitch who was a burden to him...and psychotic...and dangerous....and a failure....

hiddenhome Tue 31-Jan-12 14:26:52

Please don't send him, he could disappear or bugger off to Mexico or Columbia or something sad Does he have money?

trustissues75 Tue 31-Jan-12 14:32:51

Yes, he has money - though he's claiming his income is zero (quit his job) but he has a fair amount in the bank - and that's just what I know about. Funny you should mention Mexico - the boy told me the other day that daddy want's to take him on holiday there - I have no idea whether it's true or just the imagination of a very imaginative child.

stopthecavalry Tue 31-Jan-12 14:35:57

funny thing is I actually believed I was an unreasonable and ungrateful bitch who was a burden to him...and psychotic...and dangerous....and a failure....

Which is exactly why he is doing what he is doing. To some extent he knows he can play you at the mind games.

Sounds like you are going through hell but please try to stay strong and do not fall for his shit. Follow your solicitors instructions and keep your son in the UK. This is not a nice man.

wellthatsdoneit Tue 31-Jan-12 16:41:22

Let him blow a gasket. Please do not put your son on a plane. I know you are brow beaten, but your ex is trying to bully you into giving up your son because he knows he has no other way of doing it. From what you describe he has no grounds to file an application under the hague convention. This means you are in control which I would imagine is driving your ex into frothing madness. I know you are feeling worn down by the relentlessness of the bullying though. Is there someone who can act as a buffer between you - including your solicitor if necessary - tell your ex to direct his communications to them. He will blow a gasket again because he knows he won't be able to bully, manipulate and speak to them the way he does to you, but you won't be exposed to the gasket blowing anymore.

I know you are frightened, but please don't put your son on a plane.

NatashaBee Tue 31-Jan-12 16:47:32

OP - your understanding is completely correct - your DS is resident in the UK, has never lived in the US, the US court would simply defer to what was decided in the UK. Your ex is clutching at straws. Just keep a factual diary of everything that happens so you can refer back to it later.

LucyGoose Tue 31-Jan-12 17:15:08

OP - he is just trying to be a bully and a blowhard, and he knows you are stressed so he is trying to tip you over the edge.

I am american so I have had the misfortune to meet some jerks like this!

Please tell him if he continues to be abusive, all correspondence about custody will be going thru the attorneys. He can call his son but if he tries to say nasty things about you, all he will get is ensuring he never will get visitation.

If he is in the military, you can contact his commanding officer and they can also help you try and get him to stop harrassing you.

trustissues75 Tue 31-Jan-12 18:00:59

Fortunately he's blocked his email - so i don't have to deal with him repeatedly asking me to send him to the states but I've tried to keep in contact for issues that arise with the boy. This man won't even coordinate what we buy for Christmas/birthday for goodness sake. Him stopping child support is just the final straw.

Just to make it clear - the boy was born in the Usa but has never lived in the state where the petition has been filed and hasn't been in the Usa since 2010.

Military - unfortunately i have no recourse since he was a civilian for them - they couldn't even ship our personal belongings to us ( which included my photography equipment so i could carry on with my career).

Heleninahandcart Tue 31-Jan-12 18:24:46

You're RL friends are right you have to detach. If you don't engage, he can't try to bully you. Any correspondence that needs dealing with can be done via your solicitor. Any that doesn't can go into the file called Fuckwit.

He is not suddenly going to turn into a reasonable human being, you have to wise up to this and stop trying to engage with him or anything. Coordinating presents is way down the list of your priorities right now. Your only concerns should taking care of yourself and your boy.

Do not even think about letting your boy out of the UK.

Your solicitor is correct, your boy has been living in the for over a year and the status quo is that he stays in the UK.

This man does not have superhuman powers, he has been wearing you down for a long time to suit his own purposes. He is a small, inadequate bully who is acting up because you have not just gone along with the script he wrote for you.

You have been more than reasonable, you have RL support, your solicitor's advice and now MN, you are not alone. Stay strong you will get through this.

Heleninahandcart Tue 31-Jan-12 18:26:07

on anything
living in the UK hmm

bochead Tue 31-Jan-12 18:34:48

You have an interim residence order. Saty calm and ignore the pratt till the next hearing , f he doesn't show the order will likely be made permanent - everything else is just hot air. If you want to take a belt and braces approach as the solicitor to request a prohibited steps order (with custodial penalties for non-compliance e.g prison time!) to ensure he can't take the kid to the corner shop unsupevised cos of the abduction risk he poses.

Do not put that kid on a us bound plane till he's 18+.

Next finances - remove a key current mode of control. Financial worries combined with controlling mindgames = a really toxic mix for you and by extension, emotionally for your child. What do YOU need to do to ensure you are no longer dependent on ths asshat's money to provide for your child? Ideas below:-
Start by checking benefits entitlements.
Could you move to a cheaper area/smaller property (say a 1 bed instead of a 2 bed flat).
get a lodger? Lots of It contractors in most cities want somewhere Mon-Fri to crash givng you back your privacy at weekends.
Move in with extended family for a while
Get a better paid job (even if it's doing summat you hate for a year or 2).
Cut bills/groceries/transport to the bone.

Remember a kid only really needs a stable emotional environment, a rainproof shelter, shoes on feet and food on the table to be happy. You can probably deal with less than your ideal living standards for a year or 2 while you rebuild (you sound resourceful so I'm sure you climb back up in time!). Allowing this bullying git to mess with your head sounds intolerable for a minute longer.

Keep the child's passport in a bank box or at your Mum's house, not on your own premises. Possesion is 9/10 of the law - he abandoned you and left the child in your care, the relevant judicial juristiction approves. You are sorted on that front - turn your attention to your finances and stop letting a blustering bully distract you from raising your child to the best of your ability.

This is about mind games not the child's welfare - if it were he'd be willing to come to the UK to see his child at the earliest opportunity and be paying child support regular as clock work. Caring parents will do anything for their kids, until he can see it's not about him but about his child's welfare he's not being a parent in any sense of the word.

trustissues75 Wed 01-Feb-12 09:41:28

Helen and bochead

Thank you for getting me out of the fear/panic/guilt cycle. You've made some very good points (I wish I could deliniate a situation and put it into practical terms as well as you can)

Some good suggestions on what I can do to remove his last bit of control...I'm already working on them this morning.

Thanks so much everyone...this has been dragging me down for months now.

mummytime Wed 01-Feb-12 11:42:47

Do keep a paper trail of what he has said, print email or put on a memory stick. Then just put away in an envelope, don't look at them, so you have evidence if you ever need it.

Well done!

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