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To be furious that neighbour put letter through door at 5am complaining about dd crying..?

(393 Posts)
cheaperthantherapy Tue 27-Sep-11 09:03:22

i need some perspective I think... Am 12 weeks pg, so hormones contributing to irrational emotions -AIBU....

We moved to new house in July, semi detached in London. Poor dd, 14 mo, has been unsettled since move and has woken up average twice a night crying. I soothe and put her back down within 15 mins. The past week she's been teething and waking screaming 6 times a night. So I have get in with me to quickly calm and try teething gel.

Last night 5am our neighbour (mid 20s woman) put a letter through our door saying she is fed up with dd crying, she has gone to doc for medication, and asking if she needs to move to get sleep...

My reaction was to write a note back suggesting in an offended and grumpy tone that she clearly has more issues if she needs to see doc because of crying baby and recommended she buy earplugs (I attached a packet of ear plugs for her).

Dh didn't let me put the note in her door - but am still fuming... AIBU?

Katisha Tue 27-Sep-11 09:06:01

Well to be honest she is probably pretty desperate.
Can you move dd to a different room while the teething is going on - not next to the party wall?

DooinMeCleanin Tue 27-Sep-11 09:06:23

YANBU. But in all fairness a mid twenties, single woman is going to be clueless about babies and is probably one of those whose 'baby will never cry because they will do x' much like we all were at one point grin

I'd still post the note, though.

The neighbour hasn't handled this well. A note dropped through the door is so PA when she could have talked to you.

I think, when you've calmed down, you and your neighbour really need to talk. Apologise but explain it's not deliberate, you're doing everything you can and see what happens.

Not a great situation for either of you but unavoidable in semi detached houses.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 27-Sep-11 09:07:04

YABU.... It's been going on for several months, your neighbour is upset and in need of medication and your first thought is to write a snotty, sarcastic note??? Go and apologise for the noise, talk to your neighbour and explain about DD's teething. Get to know the woman rather than go straight onto the defensive.

porcamiseria Tue 27-Sep-11 09:07:04

she does not have kids, and she wont understand. I know its tough but you must try and see her side

send apologetic note,maybe put in earplugs, and explain this is a phase due to teething and you hope it will get to normal again

DO NOT send her a pissy note. you are the one that has kept her awake!!!!!

SoupDragon Tue 27-Sep-11 09:07:27

TBH, yes you are. At some point you really should have apologised to the woman and explained why your DD is unsettled. If she doesn't have children she probably has no idea or has forgotten if hers are well past that stage.

Your DH was entirely right not to let you post your reply. Go and have a chat with the neighibour now, apologising and explaining. she probably has no idea.

amistillsexy Tue 27-Sep-11 09:08:13

Ignore, Ignore, Ignore.
There is absolutely nothing you can do about DD crying. If you could stop her, you would!
DD's crying in the night will pass (probably in about 6 months...just in time for new baby to arrive grin ).
The short answer to your neighbour's note is 'unfortunately, yes <<you do have to move to get sleep>>'

QueenStromba Tue 27-Sep-11 09:08:21

YABU.

A war of 'notes' is not going to get you anywhere apart from increasingly resentful. Have you ever spoken face-to-face over it?

It's easy to be furious at a sound through the wall but when you talk in person, she might gain some perspective and understanding from seeing the human face of the issue. Do you feel that you can knock on her door and discuss it in a calm way?

BagofHolly Tue 27-Sep-11 09:09:51

Neither of you are being unreasonable I think. Broken sleep is hellish when it's your own darling child that wakes you, and frustrating beyond belief if it's something beyond your control, like outside noises. 6 times a night is a LOT, have you tried giving her Calpol/calprofen? I've never found teething gel that helpful by itself.
In the long run it's best to stay cordial with the neighbours. Is there any soundproofing you could do, like putting wardrobes against the dividing wall?
Hope your baby's teeth are through soon. x

savoycabbage Tue 27-Sep-11 09:10:20

Poor woman. (not you)

TotemPole Tue 27-Sep-11 09:10:23

Can you reorganise the sleeping arrangements so that DD is further away from the adjoining wall?

Mishy1234 Tue 27-Sep-11 09:10:32

YANBU to be upset, I would be too.

This woman is in her 20's and obviously has no idea of what children are like. Noise is a fact of life if you live in a semi-detached house and if your neighbours have children you just have to accept a certain amount of noise.

Are all the bedrooms adjoining one another? Is there another room you could take your DD to whilst you settle her?

I would agree with your DH that a note in retaliation is only going to inflame the situation. I would just ignore it and put it down to PMT (hers obviously!).

SlinkingOutsideInSocks Tue 27-Sep-11 09:10:37

Why are you furious? Because the woman is unhappy with repeated nights of disturbed sleep? confused

cheaperthantherapy Tue 27-Sep-11 09:11:50

It's 2 bed house so the rooms are pretty restricted. It made me both really upset and angry. I know she must feel desperate- but all it served to do was increase my stress levels. When I used to live in flat next to a baby room I wouldn't have dreamed of complaining... She's a baby - and they cry .. Now I feel paranoid even if dd just upset for 1 minute..

nickschick Tue 27-Sep-11 09:11:50

I think that unless you actually have a baby/small child the noise they make can be earshattering - I myself have 3 ds and sometimes I hear a baby cry in the supermarket and think thank god I dont have that.....my eldest ds a v patient lad has been known to get off a bus and wait for the next one cos a baby crying disturbed him that much.

Its v difficult you obviously arent leaving your dc to cry but your neighbour isnt particularly child friendly ........and your pregnant so its not likely to stop any time soon wink.

I think you need to speak to neighbour calmly and tell her its something you are addressing but obviously its normal.

GypsyMoth Tue 27-Sep-11 09:12:50

It's been going on this long and SIX times a night and you've not even been round yet to explain or even thought about your neighbours???

worraliberty England Tue 27-Sep-11 09:12:53

She must be pretty desperate to have done that sad

Are you 100% sure in your heart of hearts that you do actually settle her/see to her within 15 minutes?

When you're used to your baby crying, it's easy to mistake how long they're actually doing it for.

ForYourDreamsAreChina Tue 27-Sep-11 09:13:06

Would you have preferred her to come round and shout?

5am must mean she was pretty desperate.

It's not your child's fault, it's not your fault, but it sure as heck isn't your neighbour's fault. Unfortunately that day has arrived when you have to realise that everybody else's life does not revolve around your domestic arrangements.

Time for some bridge building...maybe go round, apologise (like most parents do when their children, intentionally or otherwise, cause a nuisance)

GypsyMoth Tue 27-Sep-11 09:13:57

You seem genuinely surprised about it being an annoyance for others

Sort it quickly before your neighbour involves env health or something!!

Are you renting?

SlinkingOutsideInSocks Tue 27-Sep-11 09:14:13

WTF? She's upset after repeated nights of disturbed sleep, so it must be down to PMT?! shock

porcamiseria Tue 27-Sep-11 09:16:11

I agree, to send a note at 5am she must have been desperate, I think you need to pour some oil and these troubled waters and do a charm offensive

PanicMode Tue 27-Sep-11 09:16:48

I sympathise- we have a non sleeping 17 month old - our older three sleep very well, but the 'baby' is often screaming at 4am at the top of his lungs, and we live in a semi, on a very quiet street. He's never been a good sleeper and after over a year of very disturbed sleep I am a walking zombie half the time!

However, I apologise to our neighbours regularly - I know how hard it is to be sleep deprived (and I've also done sleep deprived and pregnant) and remain rational at times - so I can understand why you are annoyed about the note, but I think that you need to go and talk to her and explain that you are doing what you can. Is it possible to move her so she's not against the party wall?

cheaperthantherapy Tue 27-Sep-11 09:16:50

I guess there is a difference if opinion on this one - but have taken a breath and I will talk f2f and calmly and of course apologise (I'd already apologised to the other neighbour who we have met) .. Not yet met this women.

DooinMeCleanin Tue 27-Sep-11 09:17:51

I doubt environmental health would be interested over a baby crying, it's not like dogs barking. Unless you think they'll give Op X amount of days to train or re-home her baby?

Babies cry. It's stressful for all. We used to have a crying baby next door to us. The babe cried literally all day and all night. I bought an air bed to sleep in the living room in the end. It never occurred to me to feel anything but sympathy for the poor mum and I would have never dreamt of adding to her stress by complaining or pointing out it was disturbing us.

TotemPole Tue 27-Sep-11 09:18:19

It's 2 bed house so the rooms are pretty restricted.

Are both bedrooms in her house occupied?

Talk to her about it and see if you can work out a solution while your daughter is teething.

Could you arrange to sleep next to DD so you're there as soon as she wakes? How about you both sleep downstairs for a while?

Is there anything you can do to sound proof the rooms more?

yellowraincoat Tue 27-Sep-11 09:19:01

To everyone who's saying that the woman probably has no children and has no idea what it's like: so what? Does that mean that she should be kept awake every night by a screaming child?

It was passive aggressive of her to put the note through the door, but some people are shy and don't know what to do. Having no sleep is awful, especially when it's because of someone else's noise.

You should really be apologising to her and figuring out a solution together. Can she move rooms? Can your daughter? Do you move around when your daughter is crying?

YABU

StrandedBear Tue 27-Sep-11 09:19:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SoupDragon Tue 27-Sep-11 09:19:12

Is the neighbour you have apologised to the attached neighbour or the other side?

ForYourDreamsAreChina Tue 27-Sep-11 09:20:37

There's not much difference of opinion actually OP,is there. The vast majority have advised you to apologise, and good on you for saying you will.

Hope your baby settles down soon. smile

Lulumama Tue 27-Sep-11 09:20:59

see her face to face, make a fresh start, regardless of whether she has children or understands about teething babies, her sleep is being disturbed to the point she is on meds ! if you were waking her up with loud music/arguing/shouting 6 times a night, you'd certainly be in the wrong, I appreciate you cannot control how much your baby cries, but you need to understand her point of view
some noise is par for the course in a semi, but it would have been better to see her and chat and explain and tell her this won't be going on for ever .....
your note in reply was nasty and will prove to her you are an inconsiderate neighbour ! I can't believe you attached ear plugs ....! shock

ChunkyPickle Tue 27-Sep-11 09:21:04

I can understand both sides, but, what are you going to do?

Children cry, you live in a 2 bed semi, she's going to be able to hear - that's life. If it wasn't kids, then it'd be the milk float, or a particularly annoying cuckoo, or something

(speaking as someone who lived next to a couple with 3 raucous boys and had flaming rows - not even going to mention the trampoline and swimming pool in summer)

StrandedBear Tue 27-Sep-11 09:21:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GypsyMoth Tue 27-Sep-11 09:22:24

Dooin.......don't be so quick to doubt!! If op is in rented it could get nasty! It's happened before here on mn.

Bonsoir Tue 27-Sep-11 09:23:13

YABVU.

A friend of mine let her DD cry at night and the neighbours got so fed up that they got the police out - and the police gave my friend a formal warning for disturbing the neighbours.

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 09:23:53

dear god,

i would have gone postal by now if i was your neighbor.

yabVVVVVVu

carabos Tue 27-Sep-11 09:24:15

I sympathise with both sides. My neighbours left their DS1 to scream the place down cry for half an hour in the middle of the night, every night for two years (stopped when their DS2 came along shock). I never once complained in spite of the fact that we didn't get an unbroken night in all that time and when I noticed she was pregnant with the second one I burst into tears at the thought of another two years of it.
Can you work with her to find a part of the house where the crying is less noticeable? Sometimes when you are in a terrace or semi there are dead spots for sound around the place - if the baby is downstairs for example and she is upstairs? You could make an effort until your DC is through this phase and bear in mind that when you have the next the problem may be multiplied.

slavetofilofax Tue 27-Sep-11 09:24:20

YABVU.

Babies do cry, but this is your baby, not hers, and you should be feeling bad about that fact that your baby has caused someone else sleepless nights, you do not have the right to be furious with someone because they have pointed out they you have disturbed them.

The onus is on you to go round and apologise to her, not her to have to come and talk to you when it has become a real problem.

Do you own the house? If so, you should look into soundproofing it, or if you rent and are likely to be there long term, you could offer your ll to pay half towards it.

How would you feel if this woman was playing loud music all night and preventing you from sleeping? No different imo.

wompoopigeon Tue 27-Sep-11 09:24:23

I live in a flat.
I found out where my neighbours slept, and purposely if DD is crying pick her up and move her out of the adjoining room so as not to disturb them. If DD was waking 6 times a night I would definitely move her into the front room or our bedroom temporarily .
I like my neighbours. They return the favour by skimping on the late night parties etc. It's simple human kindness and decency.
You need to apologise to her and work out a compromise. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear.

Ragwort Tue 27-Sep-11 09:25:58

I can never understand people who don't introduce themselves to their neighbours immediately they move - surely it is the norm (from both points of view) to knock on the door and welcome people or if that hasn't happened introduce yourselves to your neighbours confused - perhaps I have been lucky and always lived in friendly places - yes, that does include big cities and small villages - renting and buyinggrin.

It's no wonder that people are so isolated these days.

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 09:26:42

if it were me i'd be MORTIFIED that my child was waking up 6 times a night SCREAMING and disturbing the whole neighborhood. i would have gone over, LONG ago and knocked on door and said, "I'm so sorry about dd's screaming, it's just she's teething and I'm doing everything possible (which I don't think you are btw) and I hope it will be over soon. I know it must be very disturbing and for that I apologize profusely. IS THERE ANYTHING I CAN DO?"

ILoatheMickeyMouseClubhouse Tue 27-Sep-11 09:28:52

I agree with the others; the sensible thing to do here is to apologise to your neighbour and try to come to a solution that means minimal disturbance to her sleep. I agree about the note being passive aggressive, but like others have said she may be shy or she might have just have had enough at 5am this morning and written the stroppy note.

stomping Tue 27-Sep-11 09:28:56

YABU. She sounds desperate and you sound like you have a massive sense of entitlement. Its not ok to let a baby scream 6 times a night without either apologising, acknowledging that it is horrific to disturb someone to that extent, or attempting a solution such as finding out what room she sleeps in and moving your dd to the diagonally opposite room.

Its not PA to put a note through the door at 5am. Its desperate, and better than actually paying a call at that hour.

ILoatheMickeyMouseClubhouse Tue 27-Sep-11 09:30:07

Also I agree with what Kerrymumbles said

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 09:30:46

yes, after that length of time I would have most likely gotten a speaker, put it up against the adjoining wall and BLASTED death metal or something.

i have been known to do this with very obnoxious neighbors.

Quintessentialist Tue 27-Sep-11 09:30:49

A 2 bed semi in London is not really adequate housing for a family of four. Why on earth have you just moved into a 2 bed house with one child, and another on the way?

And yes, do apologise. She is probably also really worried about her future in her home, as you are unable to settle one child, and soon there will be another in this restricted space.

Nippysnippy Tue 27-Sep-11 09:31:38

Take your daughter to the G.P. Apologise to your neighbour and say you were not aware how much it was affecting her but you are doing what you can to remedy the situation. Your child might need painrelief or there might be an underlying issue you are not aware of that is causing her not to settle. I would involve some professional help now before it is thrust upon you.
I have have experience of this and it transpired that my daughter was Autistic. She could scream/cry for what seemed like hours and little would pacify her. As she was my eldest I had no idea what was wrong, I just thought I was a useless mother, despite doing all I could.
I think it would be sensible to have your G.P. note your concerns. Explain the duration and the complaint.

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 09:32:01

agree ragwort.

StrandedBear Tue 27-Sep-11 09:33:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GypsyMoth Tue 27-Sep-11 09:34:17

What's wrong with a 2 bed house?

ILoatheMickeyMouseClubhouse Tue 27-Sep-11 09:34:41

I have to say too that I agree waking 6 times in the night isn't normal at that age. Have you tried any sleep training methods, OP?

chandellina Tue 27-Sep-11 09:35:14

i'd apologise, try to find a solution as others suggest, but ultimately you can only do what you can do so try not to stress every time your daughter cries. our new neighbours were jokingly complaining about the former owners' daughter - who is the same age as our son. I'm also pregnant so they know they are in for it. Of course I'll do whatever I can to avoid disrupting their sleep but I can't work miracles with party walls and crying children. Their day will come ... they don't have children yet but I'm sure it's on the cards.

quint - thanks on behalf of the OP for that advice! i'm sure everyone with two kids in a two-bed semi would love to be in a 3 or 4 bed - not always possible!! children can sleep in the same room, you know, and baby is likely to be in with parents for a while.

frasersmummy Tue 27-Sep-11 09:36:18

I dont think you need to apologise for a baby crying i the night.. you say sorry when you have done something wrong .. not for living

playing loud music all night is very different... you have a choice when to play your music and what volume to set it at ... you dont have these choices with a baby.

I think your neighbour could have had a conversation with you.. I would just ignore her ranting via note...if she comes to see you then you cn have a conversation... till then ignore ignore ignore

dont apologise for living

chandellina Tue 27-Sep-11 09:38:19

and what's all this about 6 times a night being so crazy to wake - the OP said it was only in the past week and it's usually only 2x a night. That doesn't sound so bizarre to me for a teething child. My 3 year old still wakes one or two times a night often and wants a cuddle or a wee.

Quintessentialist Tue 27-Sep-11 09:38:33

There is nothing wrong with a 2 bed house.

BimboNo5 Tue 27-Sep-11 09:38:57

Quintessential- that means two children in a bedroom, hardly overcramped! Not everyone can afford 3/4 bedroom houses you know!

GypsyMoth Tue 27-Sep-11 09:39:23

So what's wrong with a familyIof 4 in a 2 bed house then??

TastyMuffins Tue 27-Sep-11 09:39:38

I agree with the suggestions of trying to reduce the sound by moving things around. I had very noisy neighbours (babies and children) for years, one of the worst things the neighbours said was that I didn't understand because I didn't have children! No, they didn't understand because they didn't have noisy neighbours! Since having a child, I have still failed to understand their need to be so noisy. I never complained about the crying either. Our houses are very small and rearranging things can make a huge difference. Do you know which room your neighbour sleeps in? Is there a lot of furniture in your DD's room or is it quite empty so the sound travels. Are their carpets or rugs? These can help.

If you can, speak to your neighbour and tell her you will try to improve the situation and ask her to let you know if it hasn't improved. If you are able to be polite and civil, it will make it harder for her to complain.

ILoatheMickeyMouseClubhouse Tue 27-Sep-11 09:40:09

I too think it was an odd comment about a 2 bedroomed house being inadequate for a family with two children. Like BimboNo5 says, not everyone can afford a 3 or 4 bedoom house

CoffeeDog Tue 27-Sep-11 09:40:09

We live in a semi converted into 4 flats we live at the bottom... moved in at 38 wks prg with twins... 2 days after we came home we visited the neighbours - the twins brought them a bottle of wine choclate and ear plugs each...
my good could ds2 scream no one ever complained mind you we were sooo lucky they started sleeping through from 6 weeks ;)

Quintessentialist Tue 27-Sep-11 09:40:59

Nothing in general is wrong with a family of 4 in a too bed house. Unless space is restricted, like in the ops house. She just moved in there, expecting to live there with 2 children, and she says space is restricted. Seems a bit thoughtless to me.

Yes babies do cry and yes teething is just rotten for them, but being unsettled for two months and waking up screaming six times a night for a week is not normal.

I agree with others, you need further help from your GP.

It is a good thing that DH wouldn't let you post back that note. Now you can introduce yourself, sympathise with her about the disturbed sleep, and chat with her about taking your DD to the GP. You will probably find she is sympathetic back and you'll have a new friend not an enemy.

Quintessentialist Tue 27-Sep-11 09:41:26

two bed, not too bed.

BimboNo5 Tue 27-Sep-11 09:41:46

This is one of lifes many issues in the real world though Quint...

Quintessentialist Tue 27-Sep-11 09:42:13

For the record. My children share a room. But space is not restricted in any way.

Quintessentialist Tue 27-Sep-11 09:42:40

Bimbo, I find it amusing how you constantly live up to your name!

valiumredhead Tue 27-Sep-11 09:44:14

A 2 bed semi in London is not really adequate housing for a family of four

Good God, I know a couple of families that would think they had died and gone to heaven if they were lucky enough to have a 2 bed house! I have one friend in particular that has 3 kids and they are in a 2 bed - it's huge!

With regards to the OP - do NOT get into a war with notes etc. Go round later on today , explain the situation and be very apologetic.

Is waking 6x a night the norm? It wasn't with my ds but that doesn't mean anything.........

BimboNo5 Tue 27-Sep-11 09:44:16

Yeah thats clever- insult someones name! For the record it's not me with tunnel vision regarding everyone having the luxury to choose a house that suits them in every way shape and form smile

bonkers20 Tue 27-Sep-11 09:44:22

Are you leaving your baby to cry - for any time at all?

I just don't think you can do that night after night if the neighbours are being disturbed. You either need to co-sleep (or sleep in the same room as your DD so you can get to her quicker) or you need to find out why she is waking 6 times a night. If you treat teething with Calpol or the like then you should get a few hours of rest - not more screaming.

I live in a terrace and have had to be very aware of my (normal) vocal toddler who likes to sing very loudly when he wakes on a Sunday morning.

My neighbours should not just have to accept that they live next to a toddler.

These days, if I hear another child I roll over and thank heavens it's not mine, but before children it would really have wound me up.

Oh and to the person who questioned living in a 2 bed house....we are a family of 4 and while it's not ideal we certainly manage perfectly well with 2 bedrooms. Not everyone can live in a house as large as they'd like.

missorinoco Tue 27-Sep-11 09:44:39

Ok, I would have been in tears too and done exactly what you have, luckily also with a DH like yours who would have stopped me. You have my upmost sympathy,you are pregnant, like you neighbour also sleep deprived and the noise is louder from where you are.

BUT - (you knew it was coming) a cross note won't help, it will only make things worse. She doesn't have small children, she has no idea what this is like, all she knows is she can't sleep because your baby is crying. The fact that she came round at five shows she must be pretty desperate.

I think it would be worth going round too. I would take a box of chocloates as an apology, explain why it is worse at the moment and say you have also bought some ear plugs if that would help for the time being. (The ear plugs you got are an inspired idea, OP.)

I know, this is probably the last thing you feel like doing, so after you have done it you need to meet up with a friend who has children to bemoan that you have had to do this when you are also exhausted. If you aren't too plagued by morning sickness you need a celenratory cake for rising above the occasion. Sadly you are a long way from me or I would get you one.

Good luck, whatever you do. Hope it gets better soon.

valiumredhead Tue 27-Sep-11 09:45:03

For the record. My children share a room. But space is not restricted in any way

Well aren't they lucky?!

GypsyMoth Tue 27-Sep-11 09:45:42

Nothing wrong with Bimbos comments!confused

KeepInMind Tue 27-Sep-11 09:45:49

I have to say sleep deprivation is no fun and if the woman next door is losing sleep because of a crying baby that is not even her own baby you must understand why she is fed up, I am sure she will have to deal with enough of that when she gets her own children

ripstheirthroatoutliveupstairs Tue 27-Sep-11 09:45:52

I initially came on to say YABU, but everyone else has said that.
Quintessentialist, you seem to be contradicting yourself and how is what Bimbo posts living up to her name?

I feel a bit sorry for the op getting a flaming on here on top of note from the neighbour and a non sleeping baby.

I have one of those and 1st time he wakes I try to settle him, if he doesn't I take him downstairs with a blanket so he doesn't wake up both households (we're in a semi).

I get on really well with my neighbour though, we regularly apologise to each other for the noise that our DC make and lie through our teeth in response saying we haven't heard anything.

OP, go round and say sorry, you didn't realise how much this was impacting on her life and try the sleeping downstairs until it passes.

Also think it's a bit off to question why op has moved to a two bed house. Maybe that is all she can afford? hmm

DooinMeCleanin Tue 27-Sep-11 09:47:00

I live in a small, terraced, two bed house, with two children, three dogs and a cat. Space is restricted, but it's the best we can afford right now, so we will have to cope.

I'd not refuse an offer of financial help towards a bigger house, Quint, if you think it's so bad? Our house cost us £40k, we already owned part of it a 3 bed is around £100k, so if you have a spare £60k knocking about, pass it this way.

Mishy1234 Tue 27-Sep-11 09:47:07

Quint- what is thoughtless about living in a 2 bedroom house? Presumably OP would have bought a bigger house if she could afford it.

As for those suggesting a trip to the GP...if a baby is teething badly then 6 times a night is not excessive. My GP would think I was nuts to bring a teething baby in. What would they do about it, apart from suggesting calpol?

OP- I would try to smooth the waters a bit and try moving your DD into another room until she settles.

ScarlettIsWalking Tue 27-Sep-11 09:47:08

YABTU - the poor Woman sounds desperate. You really need to apologise first and then come to some kind of agreement about how to deal with this awful situation.

Your DH was absolutely right to stop you putting that horrible note through to her - why on earth was that your first reaction?

shock at this thread.

OP it sounds like you've both been a bit idiotic but none of us are perfect, are we?

Well, except for a few of those responding of course.

Knock, ask her over for a cup of tea, talk - sympathise, tell her what you're doing to try and help, see if you or she can move rooms temporarily.

I don't understand why you aren't giving calpol or something if she is in so much pain?
And 15 minutes? Don't you go to her straight away??

I am going to go against the general consensus here and say DONT apologise. I have never apologised for my crying children (crying through normal childhood stuff like teething night terrors etc)

My first went through a stage, as most kids do, of not sleeping and I spent 5 months going through every book on sleep training, controlled crying, shh pat method, you name it I tried it. At one point I was so stressed (my DH was working) I left my son in his cot to cry, whilst I cried in the other room. My downstairs neighbour never once complained, never even thought to apologise, it is part and parcel of having small children and she understood this.

I now live elsewhere and my neighbours across the road have one child who will scream the house down at all hours of the night.....I do not expect her to apologise, I accept this is what happens when you have children.

Music, barking dogs, very very loud televisions and my kids jumping from great heights in their bedrooms and banging against Walls etc......those I would apologise for.

I would ignore her and remember this teething stage wil pass. Plus I would like to add that it's not been 6 times a night for the past 6 months, it's been 6 times a night for a week.

bringmesunshine2009 Tue 27-Sep-11 09:52:05

^"A 2 bed semi in London is not really adequate housing for a family of four. Why on earth have you just moved into a 2 bed house with one child, and another on the way?

And yes, do apologise. She is probably also really worried about her future in her home, as you are unable to settle one child, and soon there will be another in this restricted space."^

Then maybe OP should use her crock of gold to move to her detatched farmhouse over rainbow with surrounded by two acres of adjoining farmland.

A 2 bedroom house is perfectly adequate for 2 adults, a toddler and a baby.

Saying: "as 'YOU' are unable to settle" is probably why she is so upset in the first place. Your baby cries and the world looks at you with judgeypants hooked over ears like you are the worst mother in the world because you can't stop your baby crying. IT IS WHAT THEY DO. Maybe the neighbour has some suggestions for keeping baby quiet? Duct tape perhaps?

That said, don't upset the neighbours, see if you can manipulate sleeping arrangements, apologise, see GP, get DH to take some shifts, but you are a bit stuck. If OP whips downstairs at the first opportunity with DC, DC is going to be thrilled and wake up every night for play time from now until 12 years old. You must be feeling haggard OP, preg+sleep deprived ouch. Though it feels like it, your neighbour doesn't assume that you are sleeping like a log whilst she is being kept awake. But it is your baby, not hers.

DS1 woke up frequently from around 9-18 months, up to hourly, stopped eventually,but yes, some tears needed to be shed for it to stop. DS2 is going to be a trauma as well, but at 4 months and co sleeping on the boob (WHAT HAVE I BECOME-SOBS), the only person in our house (indeed entire block of apartments) is ME! Honestly, will get beter OP, try not to let neighbours stress you more than you already are, once you explain, they may be a little more understanding?

ThatsNotMyBabyBelly Tue 27-Sep-11 09:52:12

Find out which room the neighbour sleeps in and take dd into another room.

I understand why you are upset, and I think with neighbours there has to be some give and take. If you don't want to be disturbed buy a detached in grounds. Otherwise get used to it.

That said, you need to get on with your neighbours for an easy life, so apologise, explain the problem and that you are doing your best.

No one wants to hear a crying baby and that includes a sleep deprived pregnant mum!

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 09:52:13

A week's long bloody enough if i have to get up and go to work all day

Quintessentialist Tue 27-Sep-11 09:52:51

Because it is a pritty dim-headed assumption about me not having any idea of what issues there are in real life. smile

But this is sidetracking.

The issue is that the op has a screaming baby, and from what I can gather has so little space she cant find anywhere else to take the baby so it is not near the adjoining wall where possibly her neighbour sleeps. And that she has not so far spoken to the neighbour and apologized for the noise.

ThatsNotMyBabyBelly Tue 27-Sep-11 09:55:01

Saying: "as 'YOU' are unable to settle" is probably why she is so upset in the first place. Your baby cries and the world looks at you with judgeypants hooked over ears like you are the worst mother in the world because you can't stop your baby crying. IT IS WHAT THEY DO. Maybe the neighbour has some suggestions for keeping baby quiet? Duct tape perhaps?

Agree with bringmesunshine completely

melrose Tue 27-Sep-11 10:01:08

I can symphise with your neighbour. When I was 22 I lived in a shared house in a student area, with a young mum and baby next door. The baby slept in the room adjacent o mine and I got woken several times a night for a couple of months, until she moved. To top it all she came round to see us to complain that music (not excessively loud) from our house was disturbing her baby when she was trying to get her to bed!!

I now live in a semi and feel guilty whe our 3 are noisy. My neighbours and I laugh about it and accept it is part of living in a semi but we do try to keep noise down.

banana87 Tue 27-Sep-11 10:01:19

I am just shock at the number of people on this thread taking the neighbours side! FFS, it's not as if the OP is MAKING her baby cry in the middle of the night--she's teething! Do none of you remember that stage??? Seriously, some perspective is needed!

OP, I would be inclined to write a snotty letter back too, but would restrain myself from actual delivery because it will not solve anything. Have a word with said stupid selfish neighbour and explain your DD is teething and there is nothing you can do. I wouldn't distrupt yours or your DD's sleep by moving downstairs, what a stupid thing to suggest! It's your house, you have a child, children cry. Even in the middle of the night. End of.

AndTheWinnerIs Tue 27-Sep-11 10:01:50

I can see this from both sides.
Go round with a bunch of flowers, apologise for the noise and ask her what suggestions she may have to make things easier for her.
We had a hellish time with our eldest and sleep but did apologise fairly regually for the disturbance he caused.
It's life, babies and young children cry but if you have some empathy to the other people being disturbed then in general they will be more accepting of the noise (that's my experience anyway)
I do feel for you op, good luck.

BakeliteBelle Tue 27-Sep-11 10:02:58

Has your neighbour never heard of ear plugs? You can't stop a baby from crying but she can just stick ear plugs in. She is exhausted, but you must be too - not the best starting point for a reasonable conversation, so put a note round for now.

Quint what a bizarre thing to say...

RIZZ0 Tue 27-Sep-11 10:03:17

Ooh, some very pent up ladies and some very pathetic comments on this thread grin

OP, sounds like you're having a shit time, you must be exhausted both in your stage of pregnancy, and with the constant waking. I feel for you!

Also knowing what it's like living next door to a crying baby in my pre-baby days (who I obviously knew how I would handle whilst actually not having a clue), I think it's the curse of London life.

When I used to complain to friends about it, I was told "Well that's London living for you"... Conversely when I was heavily pregnant with a toddler and being woken by my neighbours' regular house parties that continued to 6am people said "That's London living for you!" and so I learnt to suck it up. (And plan to move).

Perhaps if you calmly go over to see the neighbour and explain that no-one understands her state of exhaustion like you do, and you're sorry for the noise etc,. she'll relax. Explain you'll make every effort but this is a transitional time and if you get your DD's sleep settled properly this time rather than taking short cuts to silence her and causing continuing problems, you neighbour would be happier in the long term?

Good luck.

I'm in a huge 3 bed semi and there are no rooms on the non-detached side that I could take my baby if she cried.

bonkers20 Tue 27-Sep-11 10:06:24

Sometimes, when noise is out of your control, just knowing that someone is aware of it and trying to stop it e.g. crying baby, or that it will stop at a certain point e.g. loud party, is all that is needed to smooth the water.

A note through the neighbours' doors saying "we're having a party which will stop at midnight" is much better than you lying in bed at 11pm seething, not knowing whether it will stop soon or never.

Telling your neighbour that you really are trying to quieten the baby should help.

RIZZ0 Tue 27-Sep-11 10:07:38

Yes invite her over for tea, of take some wine over to her.

YANBU to feel annoyed OP. Screaming baby. 12 weeks pregnant. I can imagine a passive agressive note from your neighbour (who never even introduced herself to you when you moved in) would be the straw that broke the camels back. Your DH did well to stop you from sending another note back but I cans ee why you would be tempted to send it sometimes we all get ranty over things that we have no control over.

A f2f chat would be the best thing. Explain your DD is not well atm and you are doing your best to pacify her. You didnt say whether you have given her any calpol/ibuprofen? I recommend them with teething sometimes the gel on its own is not enough.
Also my DD is currently going through alot of nighttime wakings (she's almost 2 so can be very loud when crying!) I find bringing her into bed with us calms her down and also has the benefit of, if she does wake again we can quickly see to her with minimum noise.

I hope the phase ends soon for you OP.

xxmush1983xx Tue 27-Sep-11 10:13:35

I don't think either of you are being unreasonable, but remember you are both totally sleep deprived and this is when things tempers can get lost and you both find it hard to be rational!! I would go and have a calm talk with her, you might find she is mortified about sending the note rather than talking to you face to face, but it does sound like she was at her wits end!! This can be solved by rational face to face talking, not posting letters back and forward. Maybe even try giving her the ear plugs as a light heated peace offering? Hope it works out smile

LittleOneMum Tue 27-Sep-11 10:15:37

I can't believe the number of people on here who are saying that your neighbour is selfish. Selfish? She has been woken in the night for months and has only just put a letter through your door. Selfish would have been doing it the first night!
I can sympathise - my 16 month old is teething at the moment and last night she woke up (once though) and this morning I popped by my neighbour's house and said "Sorry, I hope DD didn't wake you last night, she is teething" and my neighbour said "Oh I may have vaguely heard something, but it's fine" - job done. If you'd just approached her sooner, it would have been fine you see.
Just go round and say sorry.

TheCrackFox Tue 27-Sep-11 10:15:51

I feel quite sorry for the OP - I had one screamer (thankfully DS2 was a brilliant sleeper) and it was as much fun as root canal treatment. A truly miserable, sole shattering time and your neighbour has handled it very badly with her passive/aggressive note.

In saying that, though, I would go round to the neighbour with a bunch of flowers and some ear plugs. Apologize about the noise but re-assure her that you are trying your best and not just leaving your baby to cry. Take the moral high ground.

It will get better and eventually your baby will sleep properly.

KeepInMind Tue 27-Sep-11 10:18:34

A screaming baby is no fun, but the OP chose to have a baby, the poor woman next door did not choose to be constantly woken up by a screaming baby.
I thing the OP needs to re think the sleeping arrangements and move her baby as far away from the next door walls as she can

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Tue 27-Sep-11 10:18:51

The neighbour posted the note, exhausted, at 5am.

I very much doubt she was thinking straight or acting in a way she might under normal circumstances. I wouldn't hold it against her tbh so YANBU to be "furious".

You know what it's like OP to be sleep deprived - I'd have thought it might enable you to feel a little empathy with the neighbour confused

Knock on her door, apologise, do all you can to minimise the disturbance and assure your neighbour that you will do this.

MissVerinder Tue 27-Sep-11 10:19:47

Oh dear.

I understand why you are seething, I truly can.

Go round and speak to her- explain that you're not getting any sleep either (!) but here's these handy earplugs as a present for you.

I think moving the furniture to act as a sound damper is a great idea. Tell her you're doing this and everything you can to try and help her.

I remember how desperate I felt when LO was just a few weeks old and crying at night. He had colic and reflux, and on very bad nights he could cry for a couple of hours.

I tried everything. We went to the doctor and got medicine, we changed feeding methods and bought Dr Brown bottles, we did baby massage, we had stuff for his bath, bought one of those awful colic pillows that massage the baby (they do NOT work), we held him in the positions the HV showed us, you name it and we tried it.

He still cried a lot and when he did go to sleep we were afraid to put him down because he would wake at the slightest movement.

I've spent nights trying to sleep while sitting propped up in the corner of the room, holding DS and terrified to move in case he woke, getting about 20 minutes sleep at a time before he disturbed and and the whole routine started again, cringing every time he made a noise because DH was being an arse very unhelpful and complaining about his need for sleep and moaning about being woken all night.

But even though I felt desperate and useless and very alone and frustrated, DS was my baby and I think that made it a bit better for me than if I had been a neighbour listening through the wall. No matter how bad things got, and at times I felt angry and frustrated at DS for "fighting sleep" all the time, at least I was getting all the good bits of being his mum too.

It must be very frustrating to listen to and be disturbed by a crying baby that isn't even yours.

I was lucky, my neighbour was an elderly lady with several adult children, lots of grandchildren and even some great-grandchildren. She was 85 and still took care of the three youngest, one only 11 months old at the time, three days a week. When we went to apologise and ask if she was being disturbed she told us that she was used to crying babies and pointed out that she was going slightly deaf. She ended up being the most sympathetic and helpful person we turned to for advice. And just as she convinced

I'm normally the first to be on the side of the parent and baby, because babies do cry and it's almost in their job description to keep people up at night. But it's not the fault of the neighbours and if it's an ongoing thing, as frequently as six times a night, then I think the parents do need to accept that not everyone is going to be happy about it or suffer in silence indefinitely.

You really do need to apologise (if not for the baby crying than for the fact that the crying is disturbing your neighbour) and try to find a solution that doesn't include earplugs.

To be fair to her, your daughter has been crying a couple of times a night for a few weeks now. At the start she was probably thinking that your daughter was unsettled by the move but would calm down in a few weeks. Instead she's crying even more than ever and without an explanation or an apology your neighbour has no idea why. She's probably thinking that this will never stop and if she knows you are pregnant again she's be imagining how much worse it will become when there are two babies to cry through the night.

Even if you feel you don't owe her an apology, you owe her an explanation and a promise that you will do your very best to ensure she isn't disturbed too much from now on.

My suggestion of moving downstairs is because it stops DS3 disturbing DP, 3DC and the four people who live next door. DS2 is a light sleeper and wakes up in full alert ready to go mode even if it's 3am.

And I get to watch 24 hour news which is the only way I keep up to date on what's happening in the world.

My DS regularly wakes up every hour. Moving to a part of the house that doesn't disturb 8 sleeping people sounds like a sensible idea to me.

OP what are your thoughts on the situation now? Pretty mixed reaction on here, has the thread altered your view on it at all?

That should read "And just as she convinced us that things would get better, they did."

SoupDragon Tue 27-Sep-11 10:22:23

" and your neighbour has handled it very badly..."

The op has also handled it badly. The baby has been crying since July and screaming for a week yet she hasn't gone to apologise to this neighbour? She's managed to apologise to the other one. I'm not sure which is the attached neighbour and which is on the other side but I had assumed the note writer was the attached one.

StrandedBear Tue 27-Sep-11 10:23:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MollyTheMole Tue 27-Sep-11 10:23:32

YANBU to be upset. Babies cry, we try our best to stop them but sometimes theres nothing you can do.

But I wouldnt post a note back through and I think you need to apologise and explain that you will try your best to improve the situation.

I feel a bit sorry for the neighbour, but Im afraid it I was you once I apologised Id be a bit <shrug> about it.

Quintessentialist Tue 27-Sep-11 10:25:35

I am sorry. I am haveing a bit of an unsympathetic morning and a bit of a shitty attidute. My apologies. I shall leve the thread and focus my happy thoughts on Ham and Mango.

OP. Good luck with your irrate neighbour and your wakeful child.

TotemPole Tue 27-Sep-11 10:26:21

I think she needs to talk to her face to face and discuss the layouts of both houses and try to come to a solution that works(as well as it can) for everyone.

Is now a good time to mention sticking egg cartons on the walls to sound proof? blush

Last time I mentioned it on MN, someone laughed at me. sad

perfumedlife Tue 27-Sep-11 10:26:59

I feel for you OP. It's very stressful. I agree that the way forward is to put a face to the name, see her and apologise/explain the situation and that you are trying. Maybe the GP could help with the teething pain?

At the end of the day, unless we are landed gentry, we do tend to have to live alongside each other and let live. I remember a downstairs neighbour complaining the week we moved in. We were waiting on the furniture arriving, still cleaning/decorating so the flat had an echo it was so bare. She moaned she could hear our chats coming down the fireplace confused I was all set to grovel and never speak again, my dp (at the time) told her that living in a tenement, this was all part of life's rich tapestry. Perhaps if seh could afford it she could move out to a detatched house in the country? He was a cheeky bugger right enough. grin

But he had a point.

Allboxedin Tue 27-Sep-11 10:27:22

Oh I so sympathise - we live in a top floor flat. I have a 24 mponth old dd and am 37 weeks pregnant. DD has had her canines coming through the past few days and has been terrible at night. I feel awful about it but I genuinely can't do anything about it.
Anyway after putting up with weeks of noise from downstairs while they ripped out the flat and we had builders banging around and drilling all day I don't feel so bad but I swear the person downstairs wasn't as friendly last time we met in the hallway!!

Personally I always sleep with earplugs, can't sleep without them but I also know how irritated and grouchy I get if I don't get enough sleep. I guess some people deal with it better than others.
I would go and chat to her and explain why its happening and that you are trying your best to calm her down.
Could you try and give your dd some calpol or somcthing? Also my dd has allergies and eczema so I give her Piriton which also makes them a bit sleepy - not suggesting you drug your child to sleep but it may help calm her down!

Allboxedin Tue 27-Sep-11 10:29:03

Also is there carpet in your dd's room ? If they are wood floors the sounds will be twice as bad, so possibly pad it out with a rug or something if there is no carpet??

MrsPlugThePlumber Tue 27-Sep-11 10:30:12

FWIW OP, I found CalProfen to be effective where Calpol didn't make a bit of difference. If your child can have it, give it a crack!

Sod the teething gel, get some baby neurofen. If she's waking 6 times a night she must be in pain and teething gel just doesn't cut it some times.

Bathsheba Belgium Tue 27-Sep-11 10:31:16

I definately think that whatever pain relief strategies you are putting in place aren't working, or there is an additional underlying problem.

Being up screaming 6 times a night simply is not normal teething.

Apologise to your neighbour - let her know that as its your first you didn;t know that it wasn't normal, that you have now spoken to others and realise it isn;t normal and you are are going to address the situation

(neurofen can be better than calpol as it's a better anti-inflammatory so eases the teething a bit more - in our case anyway)

unless your DD is asthmatic, of course.

Allboxedin Tue 27-Sep-11 10:35:11

Jareth can you not use it in asthmatics?

TheBride Tue 27-Sep-11 10:35:27

Do not escalate it whatever you do, simply for practical reasons. She can make life harder for you than you can for her because she can start playing loud music at 1am when she comes in from the pub. You can't.

fit2drop Tue 27-Sep-11 10:36:29

Agree with Add message frasersmummy Tue 27-Sep-11 09:36:18
and Witchofthenorth Tue 27-Sep-11 09:50:26

OP is hardly making her child cry deliberately.
Fuck apologising for a babys crys.
Neighbour should be more sympathetic to the babys' needs .
I doubt very much that the neighbour has been to GP specifically for this, she sounds like she is just trying to be dramatic about how its affecting her, to be fair if people went to docs over every night crying baby the surgeries would be full.
Ridiculous.
I would smile sweetly at neighbour and say I have passed your message on to the baby.

TheBride Tue 27-Sep-11 10:38:18

Disagree- if you're waking your neighbour up 6 times a night, you should apologise. OP could easily have pre-empted the situation that has now arisen.

Empjusa Tue 27-Sep-11 10:39:40

"I doubt very much that the neighbour has been to GP specifically for this"

You doubt someone would go to the GP after months of not sleeping? Really?

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 10:39:44

that would make you a cunt then.

ffs. manners and common decency and consideration are sorely lacking in some of you.

your baby is not more important than anyone else in the world.

how entitled are you if you think that?

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 10:41:53

that was to fit2

SpringHeeledJack Tue 27-Sep-11 10:42:02

oh ffs

the OP said pages ago that she was going to apologise

stop nagging her on here. She's also sleep deprived. And upset already

YareallBVU

<runs away>

teafanatic003 Tue 27-Sep-11 10:42:12

A baby crying is uncontrollable she really could just stick her fingers in her ears or put the tv on if we are being realistic here,

medication? all sounds a bit melodramatic

I wouldn't post that note however IO would repost her note and make a quick point 'i'm sorry for the inconvienience but a baby crying is uncontrollable however a grown adult posting unpleasant letters at unsociable hours IS controllable ...in future I'll be contacting the police.

(you might not actually do it but you've been firm)

fanjobanjowanjo Tue 27-Sep-11 10:43:17

LOLS at fit2. Just LOLS.

Allboxedin Tue 27-Sep-11 10:44:24

Have you told her you have another one on the way yet OP?? grin

StrandedBear Tue 27-Sep-11 10:45:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 10:46:11

grin @ allbox

meditrina Tue 27-Sep-11 10:46:44

I'm sending sympathy to both of you.

You are all long-term sleep deprived, and we all know that's a form of torture (literally and metaphorically) and it brings out the worst in people. And your poor neighbour doesn't have any of the pleasurable bits of child-rearing to make up for it.

I agree with the posters who say it's best to muster all the kindness to your neighbour that you can. Don't have a "war of notes". Even if it's unlikely to be true, decide to believe she wrote a note because she didn't want to bang on the door and possibly disturb you when you've managed to grab some sleep. See it as an act of desperation by someone who you might actually like in other circumstances (and who you are stuck next to anyhow).

Write a note saying you'd like to explain and give a good times for when she could drop in, or ask when it's convenient for you to call on her. Then explain, much as you have done here, what is going on and what you're doing about it. Do say how sorry you are that she's lost so much sleep (but you don't need to apologise for the crying per se, it's what babies do).

And I think it might be a good idea to have a check at the GP, to see if there is anything underlying that needs attention. That's best for your DC anyway, and you can also tell the neighbour that the issue is under medical supervision, and you are trying your hardest.

And I hope, for the sake of all of you, that you get a night-time breakthrough soon.

Allboxedin Tue 27-Sep-11 10:47:34

...and give the baby a Breach of the peace smile

dobbybono Tue 27-Sep-11 10:47:41

it's not fair on her,for all you know she could have a really stressfull job and neeeds to be alert, there is nothing worse than getting no sleep night after night. can you put daughter in with you just to give neighbour a break?

IwishIwasmoreorganised Tue 27-Sep-11 10:49:37

No more notes.

You need to speak to your neighbour, apologise and explain what you have been doing to try to calm your dd and what other measures you're going to try after taking some advice.

This problem isn't likely to go away any time soon - I imagine that your dd has a few more teeth to come through yet, and of course there's the baby with a full set to come through, so being reasonable to each other while making sure that you are doing absolutely everything you can to minimise the disturbance to your neighbour is very, very important.

I really don't think that your neighbour WBU, you would have been if you'd delivered your note but luckily your DH was sensible enough to stop you from doing that.

FWIW, combining calpol and ibuprofen while using ashton and parsons powders and anbesol worked well for our ds's (Ds1 was a terrible sleeper when he was teething and we had no complaints from our neighbours)

TotemPole Tue 27-Sep-11 10:49:46

I'm confused too. What will the police do, confiscate her pen and paper and give her a 6 month ban on writing?

fit2drop Tue 27-Sep-11 10:49:55

No Empjusa I do not doubt that someone would go to the GP after a month of not sleeping.
I do however doubt that the neighbour has had a months of not sleeping because a neighbours child wakes up twice a night for 15 minutes.

The six times a night has only been for a week.

Kerry if that post was aimed at me , why thank you, my first MN cunt accusation, I feel fully inducted to the ways of MN manners now. grin
Do you not get the irony of you spouting manners and decency yet its ok for you to call a poster a cunt , nice but a tad hypocritical grin

GnomeDePlume Tue 27-Sep-11 10:51:01

TotemPole egg cartons are probably not a good look on their own but a solution could be putting a nice thick curtain along the adjoining wall and also making sure floors and windows also have nice thick coverings. This will have the effect of absorbing sound rather than bouncing it back.

When DD1 was small she had colic (probably reflux as well but not invented back then!). I didnt realise how much noise she made as we were very taken up with her.

I guess that your neighbour doesnt know that you are pregnant and hormonal just as you dont know what is going on in her life. Your house is the one making the noise so you are the ones who should be apologising and trying to reduce the impact you have on your neighbour.

Try and do something to muffle the noise and apologise to your neighbour and explain what you are doing to try to improve the situation.

I have manners and common decency and I am also very considerate of my neighbours and ver accommodating when it comes to their children and next doors thump thump thump music.

I still do not apologise for my children crying when they are either in pain or are unsettled for various different reasons. I try as their mother to take away their pain and anxiety, but since small children can only vocalise their discomfort through crying I am at a loss as to why I should apologise for that. They are only communicating their needs and we have to interprate that.

I am also unable to move my kids away from the adjoining wall of my neighbours so if I wish to settle my child in the middle of the night, I would either be in the kitchen or bathroom, or the very cold playroom, none of those I feel are suitable.

Perhaps the OP should just get the duct tape out and be done with it smile

GypsyMoth Tue 27-Sep-11 10:52:54

Lol at Kerry calling people cunt then complaining they don't have manners!!grin

It's not a police matter

Op, are you renting?

meditrina Tue 27-Sep-11 10:55:21

If the 15 minute bouts of crying wake her up and she could easily return to sleep, then she has been suffering sleep deprivation for 4 months. And has then had a week of 6 interruptions a night. That is not trivial, and she may well have sought sleeping tablets. She didn't rush to complain - this has been going on for months, and she waited a full week at the more intense level before doing anything. she's sleep deprived, stressed and upset.

Which is more likely to ameliorate the situation: a sympathetic response or a head-on row?

corygal Tue 27-Sep-11 10:56:36

YABU - but you're hormonal. It's horrid for anyone, and, while there's no doubt a limit to what you can do about the crying, no one deserves to be kept up night after night by someone else's relentlessly shrieking child. You aren't entitled to ruin anyone's sleep - er, does that surprise you? Because it shouldn't.

There are things you can do to reduce the effect on the neighbours. Do them, all. Yr neighbour sounds exhausted - the poor woman. Apologise, explain what the problem is and give her an estimate of when you hope the screams will stop.

Or wait for her to have all-night parties seven days a week. Because, you know, she's as entitled as you are.

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 11:02:55

i said if you did that it would make you a cunt.

and it's true.

a week is long enough when you have to work every day. a night or two is one thing. but a week? you've no idea what is going on in the neighbor's life. why assume everything is hunky dorey?

just common decency and yes, manners.

Empjusa Tue 27-Sep-11 11:03:14

"I do however doubt that the neighbour has had a months of not sleeping because a neighbours child wakes up twice a night for 15 minutes."

Depends how long it takes her to get back to sleep afterwards. I know that if I get woken suddenly in the night I will be up for at least an hour. So twice a night, losing roughly two hours sleep, every night.

Then a week of being woken 6 times a night.

I'd be asking for medication. Or a frying pan. Or anything just to get some damn sleep.

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 11:04:34

do you only have the one neighbor?

if not, the rest of them hate you too.

Allboxedin Tue 27-Sep-11 11:04:46

I don't really agree how one matches the other cory, having all night parties on purpose is quite different to a baby who is crying naturally because she is in pain.

mumblechum1 Tue 27-Sep-11 11:05:48

My sympathies are with the neighbour.

As someone else said, you chose to have a baby, she didn't. I get so narky if I'm woken up in the night that it takes me ages to calm down and go back to sleep.

Please take your baby to a downstairs room on the other side of the house when she's crying, it's just courtesy.

fanjobanjowanjo Tue 27-Sep-11 11:10:32

SHocking the sense of entitlement on this thread!

I'm with the neighbour, although I don't agree with her method of communication!

It's up to you to do your best so that the noise doesn't disturb the neighbours, after that you can say "tough, babies cry". Only after you've done all you can to keep the noise down.

Misspixietrix Tue 27-Sep-11 11:11:34

I'm struggling to understand confused it's a baby, they cry and unfortunately it was a manufacturing defect that none came with a mute button when they was born? and yes I would have written a note in reply to the neighbour to the same effect grin Personally OP I would catch her on the way back from work and just have a quick quiet chat with her that you understand as you too are just as exhausted at trying your hardest to get her back to sleep each night and hope she has some empathy with you x

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 11:14:06

she will have ZERO empathy for someone who comes up to her all aggressive and says, tough.

Tempingmaniac Tue 27-Sep-11 11:14:18

YANBU to be upset. She is BU to write you a note.

YABU to think of sending her your note though!

SardineQueen Tue 27-Sep-11 11:17:37

I don't understand the venom against the OP.

She's in early pregnancy, her baby is waking at night and she is trying to settle her, she has had a stroppy note from next door.

How is she supposed to stop the baby crying? Babies cry, surely. I don't think that it's usual to go to the doctor because a teething baby is waking at night, and I don't think it's usual for all your neighbours to hate you because you have a baby? They might hat the noise, and being woken, but to hate the family and the baby - I don't understand this thread.

LadyMontdore Tue 27-Sep-11 11:18:20

Well, I can see both sides.
1) If your dd is in that much distress I would give calpol not teething gel.
2) Feel sorry for you
3) Feel sorry for your neighbour.
4) That seems a lot of crying at her age, if I were you I'd want to get it well sorted before new baby arrives.
5) If it was me I'd try controlled crying - took 3 nights to work with our two at similar ages to yours. If she's screaming all night it won't make much difference to your neighbour.
6) Go and see neighbour, tell her how sorry you are and that you are having a difficult time but you have a plan.
7) Do not post her earplugs!

I'm afraid it is up to you to resolve it, you do need to be considerate of your neighbour and it's in your interest to sort it too!

GypsyMoth Tue 27-Sep-11 11:21:10

Sardinequeen..... It's been going on since JULY and has now upped its pace

Op really should have made some contact ( she has with other neighbours) just to let them all know she is trying!

LadyMontdore Tue 27-Sep-11 11:22:29

Fit2drop - if I was woken twice in the night that would be basically no sleep - takes me ages to get to sleep and an hour or sometimes two to get back if I'm woken. If woken after 4 unlikely to get back to sleep at all. Could easily mean only 3 or 4 hours sleep. Maybe neighbour is the same?

I've had to stop reading this thread because I'm pissing myself laughing over the inadequate 2 bed house. OP obviously, regardless of everything else, you should have reached a bit further into your millions and bought a 5 bedroom house. How very remiss of you! FFS.

LetThereBeRock Tue 27-Sep-11 11:23:42

Have your taken your dd to the gp? It's possible that this might not all be down to teething,but an ear infection perhaps,or another condition. The poor girl sounds miserable so I think it'd be a good idea to take her to rule anything else out.

And yes do apologise. Perhaps it can't be helped, but that's still no reason not to apologise imho.

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 11:25:06

Your child is in pain from the sounds of it bad pain. If you were an adult with toothache you wouldn't scream for hours, you'd take paracetmol. Give your DC calpol!!!

corygal Tue 27-Sep-11 11:25:57

I don't believe that partying is the same as teething - but I do believe that sleep-depriving your neighbours is anti-social however you choose to do it.

I'm concerned about how aggressive this thread is - that glorious combination of playing the kiddy card and rank aggression, beloved by the entitled, is flying off the screen.

Not that anyone seems to mind much here about the baby, but I would have her checked by the GP. That's an awful lot of screaming for teething.

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 11:27:30

yes also agree with others who say get DC checked out at doctors. babies scream for hunger, thirst, nappy, attention and pain. If you're giving all the rest and DC is still waking 6 time a night she is in PAIN!!!

SardineQueen Tue 27-Sep-11 11:30:09

Isn't it normal for a baby to wake a couple of times a night though?

The baby has been waking a couple of times a night since July, unsettled and crying. She's 14 months. That's not wildly unusual surely?

buttonmoon78 Tue 27-Sep-11 11:31:23

OP - yabu in that you have not made contact before and pre-empted this. Yes, babies cry but you could should have started damage limitation the minute her sleep went a bit wrong.

She is bu because writing notes is not an ideal form of communication but she's probably desperate. And you're both sleep deprived so that will account for some of the unreasonableness.

There are some good suggestions for physically reducing the amount of sound which travels through the walls which it might be a good idea to try before dc2 arrives wink

Take her a bottle of wine, explain and apologise profusely for her interrupted sleep. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

BTW I say this from the position of having a noisy 10wk baby with wind and reflux and a house where the party walls are made of loo roll. We get on fine with our neighbours as it's all give and take (but the one side has twin boys so I guess remembers only too well what it was like!). They both know we're trying and that it is a finite thing. In turn, we try to limit the noise which is directly next to bedrooms.

SardineQueen Tue 27-Sep-11 11:31:31

" I do believe that sleep-depriving your neighbours is anti-social however you choose to do it. "

But no-one chooses to have a crying baby.

Well I suppose people choose to have babies.

Should people only have babies if they can afford detached houses?

NunTheWiser Tue 27-Sep-11 11:31:43

OP, I would take your DD to the GP for a check up. It may be her ears that are bothering her rather than teeth. Glue ear can cause a pressure build up that results in agonising shooting pains behind the eardrum when a child is lying down for any length of time.

Crazybit Tue 27-Sep-11 11:33:41

I think ear plugs are a good idea. But take them round. Say sorry. Offer her the ear plugs, tell her you know it's not ideal but you are doing what you can to prevent dd from annoying her but you are only human. Maybe some flowers or chocolates from dd will help.

DandyLioness Tue 27-Sep-11 11:33:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

buttonmoon78 Tue 27-Sep-11 11:34:03

sardine ime no - it's not normal for a 14mo to wake in the night. Unless unwell so I agree with the suggestion to get her checked by a gp.

SardineQueen Tue 27-Sep-11 11:35:52

Dandylioness no it's not great, obviously. But it's not abnormal. OP says the baby has been waking a couple of times a night since they moved. <shrugs> It happens.

buttonmoon you think it is abnormal for a 14mo to wake at night? Really?

This thread is gettign silly now.

SardineQueen Tue 27-Sep-11 11:37:49

So those who say that OP is being U by "letting" her baby cry.

What suggestions do you have for her to get her abnormal baby to STFU?

This is ridiculous.

DandyLioness Tue 27-Sep-11 11:38:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dinkystinky Tue 27-Sep-11 11:41:23

OP - you all have my sympathy - You're pregnant, exhausted and stressed. And your DD is miserable. And your neighbour is exhausted, stressed and miserable. No one's fault - these things happen (I've had it with neighbour's children and they've had it with mine over the years) - but opening proper lines of communication, and showing some sympathy (on both sides) and concern, will hopefully make it all much more bearable all round. I'd pop round to your neighbours with some chocolates and the ear plugs and explain that DD is going through a phase and teething and in pain and you're doing all you can to calm her and keep her quiet and hopefully it will get better soon - and ask if in the meantime there is anything that can be done re rejigging rooms on either side to ensure your neighbour isnt disturbed as much. Sometimes having some white noise in a bedroom is enough to block out the sounds of muffled crying through the wall - may be worth your neighbour trying that. I sincerely hope you all get some sleep soon.

Re teething - we found anbesol teething liquid a godsend with DS2 (who was awful at nights and bad with teething). You can get it from the pharmacy and it numbs the area entirely. Much more effective than teething gel.

SardineQueen Tue 27-Sep-11 11:41:49

OK so it is U of OP not to get her not normal baby to STFU.

Nice.

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 11:42:54

DS woke up constantly (but he had food/eating/tummy pain) and DD woke up alot at 18 months. But neither cried for prolonged periods of time unless there was something that needed medical attention e.g. she had an ear infection.

But teething for me always meant - teething gel constantly, calpol, and on occasion also a cool teething ring.

OP, OP daughter and next door neighbour need sleep. I also really don't like the idea of people being left in pain tis better IMHO to give the child some calpol.

DandyLioness Tue 27-Sep-11 11:44:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

buttonmoon78 Tue 27-Sep-11 11:44:29

sardine as a mother of 4 ime (as I said), no it is not normal.

OpinionatedMum Tue 27-Sep-11 11:45:01

I wouldn't apologise for a baby crying.

I would send a polite note explaining the baby was teething and you are doing all you can to minimise the problem and that hopefully she will get some more sleep soon. It wouldn't contain an apology though. What has the OP done wrong?

GypsyMoth Tue 27-Sep-11 11:45:25

Sardinequeen...... Op says it was twice a night from July, but it's now increased to 6 times a night

Prompting the neighbour to write the note!

OpinionatedMum Tue 27-Sep-11 11:45:34

I second a visit to the GP though.

GypsyMoth Tue 27-Sep-11 11:46:25

Well the op has already apologised to one neighbour,why not this one?

SardineQueen Tue 27-Sep-11 11:47:12

So buttonmoon thinks the OPs child is abnormal.

That's a helpful perspective for her.

Tiffany yes but, what? The baby has been waking a couple of times a night since July and has been ill this week and it's been more. Yes, that's what happened.

SardineQueen Tue 27-Sep-11 11:50:19

So you have a baby
It wakes and cries at night
This is wrong and abnormal and must not happen

What's the answer?

Short of giving it up for adoption, I can't see one.

buttonmoon78 Tue 27-Sep-11 11:53:19

sardine you really are spoiling for a fight aren't you!

I said in my experience it is not normal behaviour. Other people have different experiences, some of which have been outlined here.

The op is bu in that she has not even spoken to her neighbour about it. Having a pre-emptive chat often avoids a nasty situation, such as the one the op now finds herself in.

She is also bu by being livid. If I was her neighbour I too would be at the end of my tether.

I'm itching to see what you'll take exception to now.

Colliewollydoodle Tue 27-Sep-11 11:54:16

Chamomilla teething granuals, worked like magic with my two, first time we used it DS1 who had been howling all day Instantly stopped. DH and I stood looking at each otherr in amazement wondering if DS was ok !

sausagesandmarmelade Tue 27-Sep-11 11:57:44

Poor woman. She must have been at the end of her tether!

Maybe she works during the day and needs her sleep. Something needs to be done so that she can get the sleep that she's entitled to.

You seem to have set off on a wrong footing with not just this neighbour but other ones too.

You need to sort this out face to face and think of a strategy that will enable this woman to get a decent nights sleep...every night! There are always options!

sausagesandmarmelade Tue 27-Sep-11 11:59:37

and just because people haven't had a baby it doesn't mean they don't understand the problems mothers face.

SardineQueen Tue 27-Sep-11 12:00:50

I'm not spoiling for a fight. I think there are interesting ideas about what the OP should and shouldn't do vis a vis the neighbours. I'd think something like dinkystinky suggests would be a good move.

What I think is wrong is that people are saying the OP's baby shouldn't have been crying in the first place. People saying it is not normal, and that she is "choosing" to disturb the neighbour, and indicating that if they were in her shoes there would be no crying so she must be doing it all wrong. I think those comments are really unfair and I hope they aren't upsetting her given that she is pg, knackered and upset already.

Tianc Tue 27-Sep-11 12:01:32

Good lord, I'm feeling a positive saint here.

I have the world's screamiest neighbours - the people living opposite can hear them.

When the baby was left to cry, I would grit my teeth and tell myself the poor lone mother must be exhausted and crashed out. Then they swapped bedrooms, and I realised that actually the mother lay in bed bellowing, "Alright DD, mummy's coming" at 10 minute intervals for an hour.hmm

SardineQueen Tue 27-Sep-11 12:03:35

Tianc blimey.

My upstairs neighbours used to have a crying baby when I lived in a flat. I wouldn't have expected them to come and talk to me, I wouldn't have put shitty letters through their door. Babies cry. I shrugged and put a pillow over my head.

julezboo Tue 27-Sep-11 12:04:30

I see both sides.

However, DS3 is 8 months now, but when he was 2/3 months old i posted here for advice on whether i should post a note through my neighbours door apologising for his constant screaming, i was told no, hes a baby no need. By pretty much everyone that posted on the thread.

Your neighbour was BU for posting a note imo.

But 15 mins is really not long to settle an upset baby down. I dont agree with taking her downstairs, creating a bad habit then, 3am will become a regular playtime.

DS has reflux and CPMI and we are discovering other allergies along the way. He very often screams for up to 2 hours at a time and NO matter what i do, he wont stop, we have been to doctors etc.. I do feel sorry for my neighbours but if i had received a note that like It would tip me over the edge tbh. And im not even pregnant!!

I would tell her you are doing what you can to stop the crying, it will pass soon hopefully as she is teething.

buttonmoon78 Tue 27-Sep-11 12:05:13

My apologies - it was seeming as though everything I said was being jumped on and twisted.

You're right though in that people saying the baby is abnormal is not helpful. I didn't - I said the behaviour ime was not normal and would bear further investigation to ensure there is nothing underlying which could be causing the screaming.

She is obv not choosing to have her baby scream and disturb the neighbour.

valiumredhead Tue 27-Sep-11 12:06:33

Teething granules are very soothing - worked well with my ds too collie

Stokey38 Tue 27-Sep-11 12:07:32

Poor you, sounds awful and I sympathise as my DS used to cry a lot with tething so I know how it can get you down. I agree with posters who have said to go round there with wine and chocs and try and talk to her to explain. I personally don't think you should have to apologise for your baby crying in your own home but the 20 something year old, single me living alone in a flat would probably have felt very differently. Sounds like she felt really desperate to deliver the letter at 5am. I don't think either of you are in the wrong but maybe a gesture might put at least start to get things sorted between you and your neighbour. Good luck!

Andrewofgg Tue 27-Sep-11 12:07:48

Were DW and I the luckiest parents on the planet?

DS slept through from six weeks - and during those six weeks the other flat in our house was empty, the previous owner having died just before DS was born.

LDNmummy Tue 27-Sep-11 12:08:02

YABU, just because she has no kids, does not mean she is somehow incapable of understanding what having a baby is like. For all anyone knows, even someone with a kid would be equally as upset at TBH, I wouldn't blame them. Line the bedroom wall with some cardboard or something because it seems pretty unfair for her to have to deal.with your baby waking not just once or twice, but several times a night crying and distressed.

SardineQueen Tue 27-Sep-11 12:08:08

I think I got annoyed when someone told the OP that all her neighbours hate her.

There's just no need for that sort of thing, really.

I hope she is OK! I would be upset in her shoes too, best though is to bite the bullet, be the grown up and talk to the neighbour.

redskyatnight Tue 27-Sep-11 12:09:11

I used to be the OP's neighbour. Nothing would shut out the noise of the baby crying at night in the house next door, I struggled to go back to sleep again after being woken and was probably as sleep deprived as the mother.

In desperation I resorted to sleeping in my tiny kitchen in a sleeping bag. (wondering why my neighbour could not take the baby into her corresponding non-joining kitchen)

After 3 months I summoned up sufficient courage to speak to the mother - I was very polite and said that I sympathised and understood it must be difficult etc but was there anything she could do to minimise the noise? I got the same sort of response back as OP has given her neighbour. 2 weeks later I found another house to move into (forfeiting my deposit for not giving enough notice).

Not easy being the neighbour and OP has done nothing to help the situation.

lovingthecoast Tue 27-Sep-11 12:10:03

I think we need to stop giving the OP such a hard time whether you think she's being unreasonable or not.

YY, she's posted in AIBU but she's upset, sleep-deprived, concerned for her toddler and pregnant. Give the woman a break. A little bit of sympathy, empathy and gentle coaxing towards apologising to the neighbour is far more in order here.

Babies cry! Babies in pain or distress cry even more. It's a fact of life. It's not pleasant if you're through the wall from wall and need to get up for work but it's a fact of life. I do have sympathy with the neighbour as she must be shattered but if she wanted to avoid living next door to a family she should have bought a flat.

Op, it's hard when they don't sleep. I have 4 and one of mine was like this despite doing nothing different. It's also hard to get a good perspective on anything when you're in the early stages of pregnancy so you have my sympathies at least.

Christ only knows what she would write in the note if she lived next to us!! Its a hotbed of parental frustration! DS never shuts up!!

buttonmoon78 Tue 27-Sep-11 12:11:31

I agree - comments like that are out of line. And your last line is exactly what I feel. Stop stamping your foot and deal with it or that particular neighbour may well end up hating you op!

It is a horrible situation which is not your fault, but it is your responsibility to try to ensure that it doesn't get out of hand.

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 12:18:34

I do think leaving babies to cry at night is very antisocial. I've known people to take baby for a walk, use a baby rocker move into the kitchen, anything! You are awake anyway, your neighbours don't have to be.

We're not talking about occasionally. We are talking every night since July.

Something must be done for Mum baby and neighbour!!!

sausagesandmarmelade Tue 27-Sep-11 12:21:12

RedSky I really feel for you

Sleep deprivation is a known form of torture.

OP should be a bit more understanding and try as hard as possible to find a way of relieving the situation. I feel very sorry for the neighbour, who must be at her wits end.

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 12:23:03

Actually I do speak from experience I was 25 weeks pregnant up much of the night doing the supernanny retreat thing so DD learnt to self settle without crying for hours. The crying needs to be worked on.
It my case it was my exH that couldn't be woken up

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 12:25:57

People who think it's ok to complain about small children crying are unreasonable, twattish fuck-heads. What I would like to know is WHY they don't understand that WE are tired too, WE are also at the end of our tethers and have no desire to be up all night with screaming child and then to get harrassed by the neighbours in addition is going to make it a whole lot worse!!

I mean, it's not like we are having an all night party is it ffs?? We want to be asleep too!! Sorry, this hits a raw nerve with me as I have a toddler who screams at night if she's ill and she gets a lot of ear infections. If anyone dared to put a note through my door they'd receive the sharp edge of my tongue.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 12:26:09

In short YANBU

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 12:26:29

I think if OP had said she needed help with crying baby cos it was causing problems with neighbour she probably would have had a better response.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 12:28:07

When children cry due to pain they do not 'self settle' ime

Tempingmaniac Tue 27-Sep-11 12:28:48

Really surprised that so many people on here who have kids themselves think it's ok to complain about small children. DS had colic - we did our level best to try to settle him, but there's very little you can do to diminish noise for neighbours in a small flat.

TotemPole Tue 27-Sep-11 12:32:14

GnomeDePlume, a heavy curtain is a good idea plus more soft furnishings to absorb the sound.

I read about people using the egg trays to sound proof make-shift music studios. It doesn't block it out but, as I understand it, does act as dampner.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 12:32:20

redsky - but what can you actually do about a small crying child? They don't understand that they are waking others up. If I were the neighbour I would certainly get ear plugs. In some houses whichever room the baby is in you can hear the crying.

AmberLeaf Tue 27-Sep-11 12:32:40

YANBU

I agree that you should tell her you read her note to your baby this morning and shes let her know her response tonight.

AmberLeaf Tue 27-Sep-11 12:32:55

she'll

purplemurple Tue 27-Sep-11 12:36:21

YANBU as easily as the OP could have pre-empted the neighbours note, the neighbour could have spoke to the OP after a couple of weeks of being disturbed.

The OP isn't choosing for her baby to cry, they do that you know.

I have been in a similar position with my neighbours. my eldest two dd's slept through from six weeks, never had a problem. My youngest ds cried and screamed constantly from 5 mths until 2.6 yrs. Every night without fail he woke bang on 1am and screamed for an hour. I would try everything to soothe him. I apologised to my neighbours but they began to bang on the walls whenever he cried. It turned me into a nervous wreck, I would go around various friends every day even getting him washed and dressed there because he would really scream then and they would be banging away.

The HV came out to do a home visit (asked for help), my neighbours banged on the walls when she was there and she was like shock . It turns out that ds has autism. We no longer speak to the neighbours (not averse to screaming at their teenagers, so not perfect neighbours themselves btw).

I would try to resolve it though as it isn't pleasant living next door to people you don't speak to.

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 12:40:31

Electra: No you are right, but then I was never happy to let either of my two cry in pain either. The self settling only happened when my daughter was waking out of habit. When she screamed at night from pain it was usually ear infection and my neighbours wouldn't have heard either because I was down the out of hours GP getting her treated!

Tempingmaniac - DS too had feeding problems. combined with Dr we tried gaviscon, different mild brands, stay down milk had allergy testing. I was often up at night with him feeding or if I could do nothing else cuddling him monkey style and rubbing his tummy.

But I do think that if your neighbour has been kept up every night since JULY something needs to be done.

thirsty, hungry, nappy, cuddles, doctor, self settle (practised at bed time not in middle of night), out walking at night = no neighbour problem

buttonmoon78 Tue 27-Sep-11 12:40:51

That sounds nasty purple.

I still think the onus for starting dialogue lies with the party causing the noise, however unwillingly the noise is being caused. If I was in the neighbour's shoes I'd think twice before saying something as you can never be sure of the response. She may have felt this way and then snapped one night.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 12:41:12

Oh and I have an autistic child who regularly did night screaming and banging the wall when she was little. I did feel bad for the neighbours especially because we lived in a house with thin walls and apologised to them about it and they were decent people and never showed any sign of anger towards me about it and they had kids of their own.

With most kids at least you know they'll grow out of it.

I like your style, electra. I is bloody horse work dealing with an ill baby or one that wont settle, my 11 month DS was up for ages twittering last night. Our walls paper thin, and our neighbours laugh about hearing him cry in the night. I think that is because their daughter has just had a baby.
Wait till OP whining neighbour has had a baby. She may well change her tune.

WE WERE ALL BABIES ONCE!!!shock

They banged on the wall, purplemaple? Arseholes. angry

buttonmoon78 Tue 27-Sep-11 12:43:37

That's the point though electra. You apologised - was this when it began/soon after or months later? I reckon an immediate 'I'm so sorry, we're doing all we can' would probably defuse many nasty situations.

HowAboutAHotCupOfShutTheHellUp Tue 27-Sep-11 12:43:46

Our neighbour's baby screamed the place down in the early hours for months. However, it didn't affect our lives too much as we used earplugs; it was a mild inconvenience to have to wear them, but we didn’t think for one minute to complain about it as it's one of those things in life that you just have to deal with, and we didn't expect our neighbours to come and explain themselves to us, either.

My DP and I don't have children. (I come on MN for 'AIBU' and 'Relationships' before anyone asks what I'm doing here). Not all people without children are selfish ignoramuses. However, we are no pushovers; if our neighbours were regularly playing loud music, we would be the first to complain.

To sum up, YABU for not empathising with your neighbour, she is BU for not buying some earplugs!

Take her a bottle of wine and smooth things over, life is too short for friction.

LunarRose and to all others saying that OP is being anti social......she is not leaving her baby to cry, the OP is trying to settle a child in pain, whether that be due to teething or an ear infection is actually irrelevant. She is also up with her child 6 times a night, its not like she is snoring through the whole bloody lot.

I still stand by my statement of the OP should not need to apologise, she has done nothing wrong, babies cry FACT. They cry even more when in pain, and the OP is probably feeling like the worst mother in the world at the moment because she is unable to stop it.

But I am obviously entitled so there! wink

Meglet England Tue 27-Sep-11 12:45:42

Yanbu. My DS screamed all night when his molars came through. It was shit for me (was pg and working at the time) and I would have flipped if my neighbour had said anything. And we can hear everything in our terrace, I can hear next door taps running if it's late at night.

Notsurehow Tue 27-Sep-11 12:46:28

Just imagine how the poor neighbour will feel when she sees the OP is pregnant again!shock

TotemPole Tue 27-Sep-11 12:50:31

the neighbour could have spoke to the OP after a couple of weeks of being disturbed.

Maybe she just about coping with twice a night, but the recent 6 times has tipped her over the edge.

GnomeDePlume Tue 27-Sep-11 12:51:25

Totem we have the perfect solution then! Egg boxes on the wall with a thick curtain over the top for interior design purposes.

Lots of rugs, thick curtains on the windows & lots of soft toys are the way to. Laminate floor & blinds on the windows do nothing for neighbourly peace.

TandB Tue 27-Sep-11 12:53:17

This is a hugely difficult situation. Babies cry. Its what they do and the OP can't change that fact.

However, the neighbour sounds completely desperate and has had no approach from the OP and therefore has no idea whether or not the OP is in fact taking any steps whatsoever to deal with the situation. For all she knows the OP might be simply leaving the baby to cry in her cot while she lies in bed. For all the neighbour knows this might go on for the next few months or longer.

It is a shame the OP didn't approach the neighbour earlier, but I agree that it is essential to do so now in an apologetic way, and make it clear that steps are being taken. I think she should also ask the neighbour about the layout of her house and offer to try different sleeping arrangements if that would make a difference.

We used to live next door to a very nice couple with a baby who cried constantly for the first few weeks. They were mortified and constantly came to apologise and ask if they could do anything. The reality was that it was affecting our sleep badly but somehow it was bearable when we knew that the parents were doing their best and trying to bring the crying to an end. So we used to smile and say 'no, no problem at all'. And wear earplugs.

The crying eventually died down and I commented on it to the neighbours thinking they had come up with a magic cure. It turned out they had bought insulating material and stuck it on the wall between the nursery and our bedroom!

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 12:53:40

it is not irrelevant ear infections can be treated. At the point where teething pain is that bad, pain relief beyond teething gel needs to be sought!!!

No I don't believe anyone should be left to cry in pain. At least not until all other options are exhausted, as yet they are not, and then at least we still have good old fashoined cuddle which always helps.

But the OP has a lot of sympathy from me, because it is almost impossible when we ourselves are tired to alleviate the problems that are causing the lack of sleep. vicious circle.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 12:55:10

It was at the time because she was going through diagnosis. Where I live now it's a victorian house so I think you can't hear as much. And the screamer is now my 2 year old because the poor thing gets a lot of infections.

But that's not the point - some people get nasty even if you apologise in advance as the purplemaple above has shown. And they expect you to somehow design a knob which will turn the volume down on your child. Why can't they get ear plugs?

I will say it again - there is nothing you can do to prevent it happening. Of course what we all most want when we are so sleep deprived ourselves that we feel like losing it with our own child is for the neighbour to put the boot in as well, that really helps(!)

MrsMooo Tue 27-Sep-11 13:00:18

I think YAB a little U to be so angry, if she has no idea about kids, she will have no idea that you are already doing all you can to quiet a crying child and is just as at the end of her tether as you are. I think as parents we sometimes forget how badly non-parents cope with sleep deprivation wink

Ditch the note, take a bottle of wine with the earplugs and hand them over in person - I'm sure she'll be a bit more resonable about your DD crying if you explain what's going on, and that it won't last forever

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 13:01:59

wine for neighbour, doctor for child, then Calpol

FruitSaladIsNotPudding Tue 27-Sep-11 13:03:37

If your baby was a newborn, I would say YANBU. But as it is, you are totally in the wrong. I know you can't always help your child waking, but 6 times a night? You should have gone round and apologised for the noise before this anyway.

I can't believe you are angry with her for being upset! You're going to have to find out where she sleeps and move your daughter as far away as possible. Or failing that, you could try putting wardrobes etc against the party wall to dampen the noise.

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 13:07:49

why do people think ear plugs are the answer? why should neighbor have to wear earplugs? dh refuses to ever wear them as he wants to be able to hear if anyone is breaking in, kids distressed, etc. and i feel the same.

what if the neighbor has kids of her own whose sleep is being deprived in such a manner? would that make a difference to people? it seems she's fine to never get sleep because she's an adult. but what if she has children whom are also affected?

deal with your child op. it's been going on WAY too long.

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 13:10:01

I remember when ds2 was screaming due to repeated ear infections. i was round to neighbors after one night! Apologizing profusely and explaining he was sick and I realized it would affect them and how sorry i was for it. i did not tell them, look, i can't sleep either. wtf do they care about that?

they were lovely

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 13:13:04

What kerry mumbles said.

I don't think a child crying waking at night is inevitable.

Waking a neighbour up at night every night for months is totally avoidable and should be.

sausagesandmarmelade Tue 27-Sep-11 13:13:46

Seems like you handled your own situation very maturely and empathetically Kerry...and I'm sure your neighbours will have appreciated your explanatory visit and will have been more understanding as a result.

Ephiny Tue 27-Sep-11 13:22:50

Earplugs don't work for very loud noises anyway. I wear them sometimes to muffle sounds like a fan in the bedroom, or someone watching TV fairly quietly in another room. But a child screaming at the top of its voice just the other side of a thin wall? Not going to work. Same for car alarms going off outside, neighbours playing loud music etc.

I do sympathise with the neighbour actually. Yes you have to expect a bit of disturbance and neighbour noise sometimes if you live in a big city (or indeed anywhere other than a detached house in the middle of nowhere). But if it's been every single night, for months, and seems to be getting worse not better recently...if I were her I'd be seriously considering moving, especially with another baby on the way!

Not blaming you OP as I'm sure it isn't easy for you either, and obviously you're disturbing her on purpose. I can understand how she must be feeling though.

VivaLeBeaver Tue 27-Sep-11 13:24:37

Your neighbour will either sleep in the front bedroom or the back bedroom. You need to find out which and have your dd in the opposite room. I'd be steaming if I'd been getting woken up 6x a night for the last few months.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 13:24:56

Yes, some are understanding but some are not. Kerry - yes you can apologise, which I would and have done. But what else can you do?? That's what it comes down to really isn't it. Which is why if the neighbour is ill through sleep deprivation ear plugs are the only answer. People should be emotionally intelligent enough to realise that we are suffering too, we do not need additional harrassment.

If this was a teenager playing loud music it would, of course be a completely different issue.

Ephiny Tue 27-Sep-11 13:25:15

Sorry, I mean obviously you're not disturbing her on purpose!

11plus Tue 27-Sep-11 13:26:27

what a bitch, she could have spoken to you about it rather than put a snotty note through the door, I cant believe how many people are saying yabu. Maybe she will move, Id be glad if she did.

11plus Tue 27-Sep-11 13:27:40

Id be willing to bet the medication thing is a load of bollocks and just for added effect, to put a note through your door at 5am is bonkers.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 13:28:38

I'm very surprised at people saying you should put the child in a different room. There was a thread on here about a year ago where the OP's neighbour was demanding her baby should be put in another room and everyone sympathised with the OP.

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 13:35:22

A bitch shock cos the neighbour's desperate and has been woke up repeatedly every night for a month from a new neighbour who has made no attempt at friendship!!!!

Actually I'd been relieved she hadn't done worse by now!!!

WhoseGotMyEyebrows Tue 27-Sep-11 13:37:30

LunarRose I don't think a child crying waking at night is inevitable. Waking a neighbour up at night every night for months is totally avoidable and should be.

How?

blackeyedsusan England Tue 27-Sep-11 13:38:04

op, try to move your furniture against the party wall. , if not you could try putting up a curtain rail and having floor to ceiling curtains.

swap rooms around if you can.

i am not sure that going downstairs will help as sound travels up the walls anyway. i can hear the ground floor neighbours 3 floors up. confused it may also cause your baby to get into the habit of waking for a play.

I would also suggest going to the gp as she might have an ear infection. (etc)

occasionally, when we were desperate, dd used to sleep in the car seat to give everyone a chance to catch up on sleep. we have 2 sets of neighbours adjoining our bedroom. the other bedroom was out of action because of work needing to be doone on it. work that we had no control over as it was to be organised and paid for by the association of flats and meant that we were without a nursery for the first 6 months of dd,s colicky life.

NoobyNoob Tue 27-Sep-11 13:38:21

I agree with 11, she could've spoken to you directly about it. Not post a shitty letter through the letterbox.

Perhaps if she had come to the OP directly, she wouldn't be so bloody angry about it.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 13:44:52

I'm really lost for words that people up the thread think they can call someone unreasonable for having a child who cries too much! It's not actually something the parent can control, if we could don't you think we'd have done it seeing as we want to be asleep too??!

I think people have been very hard on the OP, especially saying she's entitled. No neighbour is more entitled than the other but a decent person would understand that there are some situations beyond control and teething is a tricky one to even medicate.

grovel Tue 27-Sep-11 13:47:15

Frankly I feel sorry for OP and her neighbour.
I feel for OP for obvious reasons.
I feel for her neighbour because I experienced the same thing in my twenties when I was doing an FT job and studying for a professional qualification. I was innocent and assumed that the Mum next door was negligent. God, how I hated her. Surely you could just give a baby a breast, a bottle or a burp and put it straight back to sleep?

BsshBossh Tue 27-Sep-11 13:47:23

Of course babies cry, especially when newborn, colic, teething and ear infections. But we also need to try our best to minimise inconvenience to other family members in the house and neighbours. It's just good manners.

- Take your DC to the doctors to rule out (or not) any problems other than teething.
- If it is just teething then give DC Calpol or, even better, the Ibroprohen (spell?) version as 6 times a night screaming sounds OTT.
- Put wardrobes, cupboards, shelves against party walls.
- Fill room with carpet plus rug, thick curtains over blinds, lots of soft furnishings etc to absorb noise.

We've done this in the past with DD and our neighbours have done this with their DC too and we've also regularly apologised to one another. Their newborn never bothers me now even though I know he cries alot. Just rearranging their bedroom along party wall has helped alot (as we did when our DD was tiny).

And remember, you have another new DC on the way so the problem will continue for a few more years...

TotemPole Tue 27-Sep-11 13:48:51

Gnome, excellent solution.grin

electra, maybe it was different people on the thread or opinions have changed since then.

IMO, the OP should consider:

Apologise for the noise and explain its because of teething. How does the neighbour know she isn't using one of the 'leave baby to cry' techniques?
Find out the sleeping arrangements for the neighbours house. There could be someone else in the other bedroom, so moving bedrooms would just shift the problem onto someone else.

Get DD to the doctor to see if there is anything else that can be done.

Sleep next to baby in the room which will disturb neighbours least. If necessary sleep downstairs for a couple of weeks.

Look into sound proofing/dampening the room.

Take DD away to friends or relatives for a night or two(obviously explain the situation first). A few nights of unbroken sleep for the neighbour may put her in a better frame of mind to discuss.

she could have spoken to you about it rather than put a snotty note through the door

At 5 in the morning? The note isn't as bad as banging on the wall or knocking on the front door.

BsshBossh Tue 27-Sep-11 13:49:37

Just to add to my previous post, we did controlled crying on our DD (I know this is frowned on here but that's the way it is). We never whisked DD away from her room when she cried, we did the whole timed controlled crying thing after explaining to our neighbours what we were going to do. It solved DD's sleeping issues within a week and she's been fine ever since.

BUT, it sounds like your DD is now in physical pain, so deal with that first.

frasersmummy Tue 27-Sep-11 13:50:10

I am laughing at the put up floor to celeing curtains, move your furniture, put in extra rugs, swap rooms etc suggestions

its a semi detached house.... you cant dictate your neighbours through the wall. babies cry .. its a fact of life. Its not anti social behaviour and its not deliberate. If the neighbour doesnt like it she can make noise reducting measures

God the op must be stressed enough without added pressure from the neighbours

and I am guessing she is getting so little sleep that she aint got the energy to make home improvements

Just ignore them op .. seriously

BsshBossh Tue 27-Sep-11 13:53:20

It doesn't take much to rearrange bedroom furniture. Yes babies cry but we need to be considerate of others. It's nice to get on with the neighbours.

ForYourDreamsAreChina Tue 27-Sep-11 13:54:06

If this child has been "teething" 6x a night since July, then it's obviously not teething is it?

Nobody has said the OP is unreasonable for having a child who cries too much, (although most people would, I think, by now have realised that it might be an idea to get the child seen by a GP as that amount of crying is not normal, not for teething, not for anything.) Where the OP was unreasonable (and about 9 pages back she said she was going to go and see the neighbour and apologise and put it right) is to think that her neighbour is going to be as gaga over her baby as she is. (and I also would say 14 mths is a lot different to a newborn, whose job description it is to cry)

Welcome to real life. Your baby is the centre of your universe and can do unconditionally what it wants, when it wants. For other people it is at best an irrelevance, and at worse, what this baby is turning out to be for the poor woman who lives next door. A bloody nuisance.

Yes, before you start, I am a mother, I live in a flat, I've had a screaming baby. And not once, have any of my neighbours had to resort to telling me I'm causing them sleepless nights. <smug> (before you say it to me)

WhoseGotMyEyebrows Tue 27-Sep-11 13:54:36

LunarRose I really would like an answer to my question.

addictedtofrazzles Tue 27-Sep-11 13:55:12

Electra - it is not normal for a child to wake 6 times in the night. Teething does not go on for weeks - a few unsettled night, maybe.

If the OP's child can not settle then perhaps she needs to think about CC (whilst moving child into a travel cot in a different room and explaining to the neighbour that there will be a few more nights of disturbed sleep).

So many Mums make excuses for their child's poor sleep habits. This should be a wake up call that they need to tackle the root causes. The whole family must be shattered.

YABU

VivaLeBeaver Tue 27-Sep-11 13:57:10

But putting the baby in a different room is an easy step that can be taken to minimise the disturbance to the neighbour - why wouldn't someone want to do this?

Yes I accept that living in a semi does mean that you have to put up with neighbour noise to a certain extent. I don't complain about my foghorn neighbour who can be very loud at times when talking, especially if he has friends over. However if he was playing his stereo in the night I'd be saying something.

I know that a child isn't a stereo and can't be switched off. So thats why I think that moving rooms would be a good compromise. I do think that waking 6x a night for months is not normal though even when teething.

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 13:58:13

Electra - OP is not being unreasonable for having a child who is up crying at night.

But yes it is completely unreasonable to expect unending patience from your neighbour

(incidentally I too have a son with ASD with ongoing sleep problems, but also a daughter who incurably wakes up too early and a DP who is a night owl. No the problem of children waking might not ever be cured but somehow we do have to be in the position where if one or more of us is unavoidably up, we don't wake those sleeping)

But, I think this is key, lots of other people on the thread (including me) have offered up ideas to try and improve the situation both for the OP and the neighbour. When your sleep deprived you can even think let alone work out if there is a different way of doing things!!!!

11plus Tue 27-Sep-11 13:58:23

lunarose, yes she is a bitch, putting a snotty letter through the door is hardly going to be first course of action is it, its not like the op is pinching the baby to make it cry and then holding the baby up to the wall to deliberately piss the neighhbour off is it! She cant help it if the baby is crying and must be having a hard enough time as it is. I think its despicable. What was the...'she made no attempt to make a friendship' comment about? Are you making a little scenario up in your head, if you are going to use that as a feeble excuse for the neighbours bad behaviour I think you might want to bear in mind that Im sure the neighbour didnt either!

TotemPole Tue 27-Sep-11 13:59:17

Quote of kungfupanda's post from earlier

The crying eventually died down and I commented on it to the neighbours thinking they had come up with a magic cure. It turned out they had bought insulating material and stuck it on the wall between the nursery and our bedroom!

So it can work.

brighthair Tue 27-Sep-11 14:00:23

I'd go round with a box of chocolates and apologise to neighbour. I know babies crying is normal but I would be frustrated if i was being woken that many times a night
My job means I have to make decisions which are life or death ones, and I don't do that well when I'm tired!
Doctor for LO too

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 14:02:09

You can't judge what other people's children do from your own, that's something I've realised - they are all so different. Dd2 has slept like an angel from birth, though teething and never even needed medications at night when she had a cold - I occasionally used calpol. Dd3 is soooooooo different - she'll scream the house down all night if she has a runny nose because she can't breathe properly. I never knew what a sleepless night was until I had her.

TotemPole Tue 27-Sep-11 14:02:45

11plus, the neighbour doesn't know why the baby is crying just that she has been woken up. IMO, a note at 5am is less confrontational than a knock on the door.

I don't think anyone was calling the OP's baby "abnormal" though.

What they were saying is that for a fourteen month old to wake twice a night due to being unsettled is one thing, but to then start waking six times a night, teething or not, is possibly a sign that something more is wrong and it would be a good idea to go to the doctor.

I don't know how we got from that suggestion to arguing about if the baby was being called abnormal for crying.

The neighbour didn't complain when the baby was waking twice per night, she complained when the baby started to wake six times per night. She might not have done it in the best way, but we don't know what her situation is or her own state of mind. I don't want to start the "perhaps she has this reason or that reason..." guessing game. But neither we nor the OP really know why she might find the situation stressful and so it's not fair to call her a bitch etc.

Neither is it fair to say that if she is bothered by the noise then she should be the one/the only one to change her house around and wear earplugs etc. We don't know what steps she has taken to reduce the noise or get a good nights sleep before she finally complained.

I wouldn't want to wear earplugs. I'm partially deaf anyway and I worry that I wouldn't wake up if my own LO cried, or the phone rings, or the smoke alarm goes off etc.

And I don't think it's wrong to apologise because the noise of the baby crying woke the neighbour. It's an entirely different thing to apologising because the baby cries.

"I'm sorry if the baby woke you, she's only 14 months and she's a bit unsettled about the move. She's also just started teething and is in a lot of pain. We've taken her to the doctor and we hope she will have a better night once the medicine starts to work. In the meantime we've moved her cot away from the wall and put up a wall hanging to help muffle the noise."

Surely that's a lot better than "Babies cry, so fuck off and buy some earplugs, bitch!" isn't it.

11plus Tue 27-Sep-11 14:05:15

I dont think you should go round with a box of chocolates, I think you should go round, say sorry that the baby has been disturbing her and that you are doing everything you possibly can to stop it because obviously you are having a shitty time dealing with it too, but that you wish that she could have approached it before it got to the point wherby she thought it appropriate to send a letter at 5am! She owes you an apology as well!

sausagesandmarmelade Tue 27-Sep-11 14:06:50

11plus in my opinion your comments/attitude are far worse than the neighbours...and you don't have sleep deprivation as an excuse!

I wonder how you would behave in the neighbours situation....

purplemurple Tue 27-Sep-11 14:07:01

@ Lunar Rose Actually I'd been relieved she hadn't done worse by now!!!
shock by doing what exactly?

@foryourdreamsarechina Yes, before you start, I am a mother, I live in a flat, I've had a screaming baby. And not once, have any of my neighbours had to resort to telling me I'm causing them sleepless nights. <smug> (before you say it to me)

what was the solution that worked for you? I imagine sound would travel more in a flat. Your neighbours didn't resort to telling you, did you approach them and apologise or just assume that they couldn't hear.

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 14:11:09

wait.

it's okay for screaming child to wake the neighbor at 5 am but not okay for neighbor to slip a note through letterbox at that time?

hmm

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 14:13:10

11 plus - No actually I have a lot of sympathy for the sleep deprived - as you might imagine from my last post!!! At 5am you don't stop and think "actually it might be better if toddled round and make friends and try an solve it together". It's not her baby and the only contact she has had with the neighbour is through the baby crying, hence people saying some form of contact otherwise would be preferable. Being tired and desperate and only writing a note really doesn't make her a bitch.

Whosegotmyeyebrows - if you look back at previous posts I have made suggestions. I've known Mums and Dads take babies out for a walk a drive round the block in the car, anything to get the babe sleeping.

In terms of sound proofing other people have come up with some much better options.

11plus Tue 27-Sep-11 14:14:46

In the neighbours situation, I would probably have tried to catch the neighbour if she was just coming in and have a chat, say hi, I live next door, how are you getting on in the area etc, then ask if everything was ok because Id heard the baby crying a lot at night and say it must be really hard for you. I would hope that would be enough for OP to say 'Oh my God, Im so sorry is it keeping you awake a lot, I'll try and do something about it.'

My attitude isnt bad at all, Im not saying that the neighbour has no right to be upset or fed up that shes tired, but why on earth would anyone let it get to the point where they werent having a quick friendly chat with the neighbour before going to the doctors for medication for it and sending nasty letters through the door at silly o clock.

I would probably have done the same as OP, written a really angry letter but not actually send it, then come on mn to try and get perspective!

purplemurple Tue 27-Sep-11 14:14:58

Intent is the keyword, mother and child are not disturbing the neighbour on purpose.

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 14:15:56

Purplemumbles - As someone said environmental health, banging on walls, generally coming round and being unpleasant

11plus Tue 27-Sep-11 14:18:22

kerrymumbles, it wasnt exactly a polite note was it, and the baby isnt being made to scream on purpose, and OP has said it has only been for the last week that its been bad.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 14:18:35

The neighbour is an adult KerryMumbles - not a 14 month old baby.

That said, I think I can see why someone might scrawl a note when they're at the end of their tether. But that doesn't take away from the fact that it's aggressive and not the best course of action. It's also true that perhaps this woman does not understand that you can't always stop a baby crying. I think the OP should talk to her neighbour and the neighbour should understand it isn't her fault. My daughter cried a lot for no reason too when we moved house. Luckily either the walls are thick or the neighbours understand it's not possible to reason with a baby.

WomansWeekly Tue 27-Sep-11 14:20:35

she clearly has more issues if she needs to see doc because of crying baby

really?

would you say same if a dog next door to you barked constantly through the night and you had to work next day

i doubt it

WomansWeekly Tue 27-Sep-11 14:21:58

Intent is the keyword, mother and child are not disturbing the neighbour on purpose.

id say 99% of noisy neighbours dont do it on purpose, just inconsiderate thoughtlessness. Doesnt make it any easier to bear

frasersmummy Tue 27-Sep-11 14:22:58

I dont think a note at 5am is the best ...

I think it makes the relationship akward and no-one really knows what to do next ... as proved by this thread

Surely dropping round with a concerned I hear your little one up several times a night is everything ok ??? makes it easier

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 14:23:49

But thats the point!!!

I isn't possible to reason with a baby but I would want to help a child that was consistently waking 6 times a night!!

Help the baby and problem solved

Hence people saying doctors and calpol

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 14:24:13

I still have not heard anyone come up with a fool proof solution of how you stop a baby crying if it's not something that can be fixed via medical attention.

What did you all do during teething?

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 14:25:37

calpol, teething ring, up all right soothing!!!!

Fluffycloudland77 Tue 27-Sep-11 14:28:43

yanbu after 11 years in healthcare I can say with conviction that people lie left right and center and unless I saw the medication with a pharmacy label on it I would ignore it.

Babies cry and you just have to get on with it. Her turn will come.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 14:28:44

But what if the baby isn't ill LunarRose? Some children do cry a lot just and when they don't have the language to tell you why it can be difficult to figure out a solution. If it was colic, what then?

Look, I would do anything to get a good night's sleep, I go crazy without. Sometimes it can take a while before you figure out how to placate the child. I think that most of us will try everything though?

kblu Tue 27-Sep-11 14:29:13

I agree with PanicMode. Three years ago i'd have probably been the pissy neighbour as I had no idea a child could wake up that many times in one night screaming the house down (until I had one that did).
It's no one's fault really, but when mine was being particularly bad I used to just take him downstairs and let him scream down there in the middle of the night and not take him back upstairs until he'd settled. So yeah he probably woke the neighbour up when he started screaming but he possibly didn't keep her awake.
It's a difficult one. I can sympathise with both sides.

TotemPole Tue 27-Sep-11 14:29:35

Surely dropping round with a concerned I hear your little one up several times a night is everything ok

I'm guessing the neighbour works and the lack of sleep is making her tired the next day.

A lot of people in their mid 20s with no children, will think of themselves first. Not out of selfishness, but no day to day experience of babies/children makes it difficult to empathise with a parent of a young child.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 14:30:56

calpol and teething ring didn't work for me and I have a child who won't be cuddled when she's upset.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be adverserial but those things wouldn't be a solution for colic either which is a big problem for small babies.

HeidiKat Tue 27-Sep-11 14:30:57

I feel sorry for you OP, I think some posters have been harsh on you. I don't get how the OP has a "sense of entitlement" when she is doing all she can to calm the baby and not leaving her to cry. Unfortunately noise is part of living in close proximity to others, in my house I can often hear next door's dog barking and the kids from two doors down shouting in the garden and jumping on the trampoline constantly through the summer holidays but I wouldn't go round and put a note through the door. A visit to the neighbour to smooth things over or an apologetic note would be nice but I wouldn't be taking her wine or chocolates, just the earplugs.

We don't really know what the note said though, the OP didn't put it word for word.

And if it was written by an exhausted person at 5am, after weeks of broken nights, and read by another exhausted person at 5am, after the same weeks of broken nights, then desperation could have been mistaken for rudeness.

We haven't seen the note, we don't know the neighbour or her state of mind or if she has other issues or not. All we do know is that she has been tolerant for a few weeks and now finally reacted in a way that the OP has taken offence to, even though she is now doubting her own reaction and wondering if she is BU towards her neighbour. If the note were clearly rude the OP wouldn't be having that doubt.

Unless we know what the note said exactly we can't really judge how rude it may or may not have been, or if it could be read as desperate rather than aggressive.

TipOfTheSlung Tue 27-Sep-11 14:32:49

I have learned to my cost that walking around soothing a baby all night, watching all night tv while feeding the baby in the hope it will keep it quiet and sleeping sat up on the sofa with a baby causes it's own issues. Such as falling down the stairs twice within one week. It doesn't solve problems just postpones them and actually makes the whole thing harder. also the harder you you try to keep that baby quiet the more stressed and upset you get the louder they seem to be. Says the person who ends up in her sons toddler bed at least 3 times a night because of bad habits.

OP are you ok?

mobilis Tue 27-Sep-11 14:35:14

Doctor for the baby. He's obviously suffering and needs decent painkillers (have them in reserve for the next lot of teeth if this batch is finished coming through).

OP said the baby has been unsettled and waking in the night since the move. I'm assuming that baby did not wake in the night before the move and is therefore quite capable of settling for the night. It's been 2-3 months, either something else is disturbing the baby (illness, pain, noise at night or whatever) or he is now waking from habit and needs some sleep training - quite acceptable IMO for a child of that age who has previously demonstrated the ability to sleep through the night.

The neighbour does deserve an apology. Even if it is not OP's fault that the baby is crying, the neighbour has had her sleep disturbed. The apology is just a courteous way of acknowledging the inconvenience to the neighbour, it's not an admission of guilt!

11plus Tue 27-Sep-11 14:35:56

I dont understand why posters on here think OP could do anything about it, Im sure that if she could have she bloody well would have, shes not exactly enojying having a screaming baby at night and Im sure shes tried everything she can! And also, why would you take your baby to the gp for teething?!

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 14:36:42

I completely agree with heidicat. The guy next door to us has been having work done on his house for 2 months - it wakes my toddler up when she's napping he also has loads of bonfires which I hate. On the other side there is an alarm clock that goes off at the weekend at 6am and whoever set it doesn't turn it off. There is no way I would put notes through doors though. What I do is shrug and say it'll pass.

11plus Tue 27-Sep-11 14:36:57

mobilis, OP said baby has been waking a lot because of teething for a week only...this is normal and does not require strong painkillers.

purplemurple Tue 27-Sep-11 14:37:35

Intent is the keyword, mother and child are not disturbing the neighbour on purpose.

id say 99% of noisy neighbours dont do it on purpose, just inconsiderate thoughtlessness. Doesnt make it any easier to bear

its a tad different though crying baby doesn't = music blasting, cars revving, arguing etc etc

purplemurple Tue 27-Sep-11 14:38:02

*late at night

jenfraggle Tue 27-Sep-11 14:38:13

Not everyone can wear earplugs. I have narrow ear canals and am unable to wear them. Someone who suffers from regular ear infections would also not be able to wear them as they can make the inside of your ear sweaty and ideal conditions for infections to flare up.

bonkers20 Tue 27-Sep-11 14:38:25

calpol and teething ring didn't work for me and I have a child who won't be cuddled when she's upset.

In which case I would certainly have talked to the neighbours who might be sitting there thinking "give the poor child a cuddle". It's very unusual for a child to not respond to medicine when unwell or human contact when upset. I think I would feel happier explaining this to neighbours so they'd cut me some slack. It's just courteous.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be adverserial but those things wouldn't be a solution for colic either which is a big problem for small babies.

This is a 14 month old I think.

piprabbit Tue 27-Sep-11 14:39:29

There can only be 2 reasons for the note arriving at 5am.

Either the neighbour had been woken again by the baby and, unable to sleep, written a note and decided to post it at once before she lost her nerve.

Or she was leaving the house for work at that time, which must be a nightmare to do on top of a very disturbed night's sleep.

Either way, it smacks of being the act of someone who is not coping with your baby's crying. The fact that she has had to seek medical help in order to be able to handle the situation supports the fact that she is finding the crying incredibly intrusive and upsetting.

Be kind to her when you talk to her - you don't know her and can't understand what other pressures she might be suffering, at work, in her health, family health issues, personal life problems etc. Many people can keep a grip on things so long as they are rested - lack of sleep might be the final straw for her.

purplemurple Tue 27-Sep-11 14:40:46

@ tipoftheslung also the harder you you try to keep that baby quiet the more stressed and upset you get the louder they seem to be agree with this

also like tipoftheslung - hope your OK, OP don't take it to heart

kblu Tue 27-Sep-11 14:41:35

If you took your baby to the GP for teething he'd look at you like you were wasting his time. I've had a baby that didn't sleep well, it's horrendous, you will try anything to get that baby to sleep. No one wants to get up six times a night to a crying baby, it's absolutely soul destroying.
I think all the op can do is apologise and say it's a phase and hopefully for both their sakes it will pass (because it will pass).

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 14:42:06

Depends on the problem, But when I get stuck I do ask for help, here on the boards or in the case of the ASD sleep problems from the team who are in place to help DS. (actually for sleep problems the boards here are superb)

not that I will solve them but we have tackled some of DS' easier getting to sleep problems ones with a degree of success. incidentally his sleep problems are significantly worse when I am also tired

Cuddles usually at least quieten tears (of course this was more complex when DS wouldn' let us hug him)

But I do believe if people are awake and others are asleep they shouldn't be disturbed. (me excepted, I look after whoever's awake)

I think we all agree the odd disturbed night here with a baby is to be expected. When they become routine I'd be looking for help

11plus Tue 27-Sep-11 14:42:41

good point piprabbit, she could have been going to work, which would make sense a little bit more.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 14:43:40

I know - I was talking hypothetically about crying babies and some people seem to suggest crying is within the parents control.

It is to a certain extent, and I have said earlier that I think it is a good idea to apologise but for some mean people that's not enough and they see fit to bang on the wall.

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 14:50:20

If my doctor was that dismissive, I would change doctors. But even health visiors suggest calpol, at the moment that's still an option to explore.

Tip of he slug - Yes I've been cavalier in my suggestions, however at this point with relationships deteriorating rapidly with the neighbour I would work on the easy solutions and go on solve the problems they cause when relationships with the neighbour improve.

Am hoping the OP is on maternity and can sleep during day!?!?!?!?

11plus - I dont understand why posters on here think OP could do anything about it, Im sure that if she could have she bloody well would have, shes not exactly enojying having a screaming baby at night and Im sure shes tried everything she can! And also, why would you take your baby to the gp for teething?!

Nobody thinks the OP is a miracle worker who can stop a baby crying with the snap of her fingers. But she can do something about it.

She can move the baby, or put up something to muffle the noise. She can apologise to the neighbour about the broken nights and offer an explanation which may help the neighbour to accept the noise without further complaints.

And the suggestions about the GP are to see if there might be another reason, other than teething, for the baby to be in so much pain that she is waking in distress six times per night for over a week.

The GP might be able to then give the baby something for the pain of teething or find out if something else is wrong. And everyone, including the baby, might get a better nights sleep because of it. That's actually the most important piece of advice she has been given, because the baby is not happy and teething gel is not working. The GP could help find something that does.

Nobody is saying that the baby is wrong to cry, instead they are all acknowledging that the crying is a sign that something is wrong.

Nobody thinks the OP has a magic solution that she is deliberately not using just to spite her neighbour, but she can do something to help everybody, from her baby to her neighbour and herself, if she takes the advice on here.

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 14:53:54

As I have said crying isn't within someone's control as such, but I would be looking to work out why baby is crying. At this point it could just be habit if nothing else!

ASD sleeping problems, there are things that we have tried that have helped (not solved). But that is entirely different from a supposedly neurotypical baby.

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 14:55:09

if she hasn't taken baby to doctors then she obviously hasn't done everything she could. who lets a baby carry on crying for that many months like that?

[judgey]

TotemPole Tue 27-Sep-11 14:56:35

Am hoping the OP is on maternity and can sleep during day!?!?!?!?

If the neighbour is working, they won't be able to sleep during the day. They'll be at work, tired.

TipOfTheSlung Tue 27-Sep-11 14:56:49

Twice a night for a few months isn't abnormal enough for a doctors visit though is it? I know mine would have looked at me like I was a pfb mum

Whatmeworry Tue 27-Sep-11 14:57:19

I still have not heard anyone come up with a fool proof solution of how you stop a baby crying if it's not something that can be fixed via medical attention

In the Olde Days it was called Gripe Water,and in the Old Days it had alcohol in it smile

TotemPole Tue 27-Sep-11 14:58:48

kerrymumbles, it's only the past week it's 6 times a night. The baby was waking twice a night previously.

ByTheWay Tue 27-Sep-11 15:00:50

She sounds desperate if she is sending notes....
AND the OP is pregnant - OMG she probably will need to move to get some sleep - especially if it seems "normal" to be woken 6 times in the night by a 14month old screaming and crying. Sorry - I have had 2 and that does not seem "normal" to me. Take the child to the doc and and see if there's a problem.

You want to be pleased she's not vindictive - she could just put her stereo on full blast to drown out the noise (our car alarm sounded one night for 4 min before we found the keys - our neighbour woke us the following night at the same time with super loud brass band music.... mmm petty?)

omnishambles Tue 27-Sep-11 15:04:26

We have been in this neighbours situation and in the end it got so bad for me mental health wise that we actually moved - we were young renters at the time and so we could do so.

We never actually asked if the family could be quieter as we assumed that they were doing all they could. It was absolutely awful and stressful though.

Now I am a bit harder hearted having sleep trained a few dc myself - obviously whatever the OP has been doing since June (discounting the teething in the last week) hasnt been working and she needs to try something else. I think the approach of benign neglect where it will get better as they get older is just too antisocial for a built-up envionment.

And doesnt the OP want the 14 month old sleep trained before the new baby arrives? confused and yes you can flame me for saying shes trying as hard as she can but not much progress has been made has it?

Tianc Tue 27-Sep-11 15:07:59

This "get some earplugs and job done" idea is just not true. In my jerry-built Victorian house, earplugs plus pillow-over-head only dulled the sound, and there were actually more substantial walls between the neighbour and her crying child than between child and me.

In the end we did as someone above said and shelled out a lot of money for proper, professional soundproofing on our bedroom party wall: it was that or move house. There was no hope the family actually making the noise would pay, and in my case it really was affecting my health.

This doesn't help OP settle her crying child, but people bashing the neighbour and assuming she ain't tried earplugs... clueless.

mobilis Tue 27-Sep-11 15:12:15

11plus, if something was causing me to wake screaming 6 times a night I would not call it normal and I wouldn't wait a week to get painkillers. My son is also 14 months and teething has never caused him to wake even once at night, but my GP gave me some syrup (can't remember the name, have it in the fridge at home) which is stronger than Calpol to have handy just in case he has teething pain. Fortunately we've not had to use it. I don't see why the OP's GP shouldn't do the same.

The waking twice a night (when not teething) is not usual for a 14 month old and I would certainly raise it with my GP if it were my son, although I wouldn't go so far as to call it abnormal. I do find it worrying in the OP's case because the baby was not doing it before. In other words something has happened to cause his sleep to become unsettled where it was not unsettled before (so he is not just a naturally poor sleeper), and that something has not resolved after 2-3 months (which is cause for concern, surely?)

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 15:13:16

actually I was trying to be nice - but I agree with Kerry mumbles and omnishambles.

[pulls on own pair of judgey pants]

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 15:14:06

and mobilis!!

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 15:14:39

Ear plugs block out everything when I've used them - but I do see that like everything else, everyone's different but it was my experience which made me suggest it was a good idea.

The thing is, no baby cries night after night in reality, do they I doubt that is literally happening. I feel sorry for the OP, Mumsnet is in no way as supportive as it used to be - she could have used a bit of empathy from some of you but lately it seems to have become fashionable either to immediately brand someone entitled or say they sound like they have a personality disorder. It's a shame. As far as I'm aware in the mumsnet ethos it still says if there's one thing parents could use it's a bit of support.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 15:17:00

Although we might sympathise with the neighbour too it's not her posting is it?

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 15:19:35

electra - the reason I judged her is because she was going to write a rather nasty note to the neighbor and give her earplugs.

first thought?

selfish bitch

sorry but true

reelingintheyears Tue 27-Sep-11 15:20:51

...and they all lived happily ever after....

Actually,i would say sorry to the neighbour for her sleep being disturbed.

Who knows what type of job she has to go to every day.

Maybe she put the note through the door at 5am on her way to work.

LunarRose Tue 27-Sep-11 15:22:39

support is saying perhaps the OP should have been done the doctors by now. Support is saying perhaps she's too tired to have thought have it herself so perhaps we can suggest it to help. Support is saying can we suggest something to improve the relationship with the neighbour

But actually the OP didn't ask for support, she asked if she was being unreasonable with regards to the neighbour. I think it's telling that she got support anyway, even from people who thought she most definately was!!

What she got was support and advice (earplugs and all!!)

altinkum Tue 27-Sep-11 15:28:09

I know a doctor, will laugh at me if I took my son to the doctors for teething problems, and I am sure they would be annoyed at me for waiting there time.

The problem here is your dd sleep pattern, she now has got used to waking up 6 times during the night, or whatever it is, you have to try and get herself to settle herself, instead of you doing it for her, as if you don't try and curb her sleep pattern now, you will be awake 24 hours with the needs for the NB and the toddler.

Whatmeworry Tue 27-Sep-11 15:30:48

OP agreed to apologise waaay up the thread, very good move IMO. Also think of moving baby or soundproofing the wall. Agree that whatever the OP has done isn't working, need a rethink.

Scary how many people on the thread think Have Baby = Entitled to Rool Over Other People.

Am rather curious as to whether neighbour can report this as a noise menace, apparently baby crying can reach up to 110 decibels (like loud rock concert or an car horn) - 85 dB is the limit for not getting hearing loss and above that volume does count as a menace in many areas. Now that could be interesting - first ASBO at 14 months grin

kerrymumbles Tue 27-Sep-11 15:32:24

ear infection, etc. needs to be ruled out. Only a doctor can do this.

altinkum Tue 27-Sep-11 15:32:36

However at the same time, you soon will have a NB, that will be waking up every few hours, and that is something your neighbour will have to get used too, even if it is only short term, if she wanted peace and quiet, then Id suggest to her a semi attached house isn't going to be ideal peace and quiet.

It does not matter what there situation is, at home or at work,or what there events are through the night, as no one is a winner in this situation, and it doesn't make two wrongs = a right!!!.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 15:33:05

But she didn't post the note, and presumably wrote it because she's exhausted too and emotions are running high. Much like the neighbour - but it was ok for her to post the note?

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 15:33:57

Also, personal attacks are not necessary really are they? Calling people on here a cunt and a cow is not lovely behaviour either in my book.

I agree with LunarRose, the suggestions the OP has been given are supportive, because they have offered her potential solutions to the number of problems she has in this situation.

That's much more supportive than agreeing with her without meaning it, just because she is the one posting here, or calling her neighbour names. Or ignoring her altogether because we think she would be unreasonable to send a nasty note but we didn't like to say so.

whatmeworry - I don't think the neighbour can report the noise of a baby crying as a noise menace.

But she could report it if she believes the crying is being ignored and the baby neglected or suffering in some way that isn't being dealt with.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 15:39:28

Some have been supportive but some definitely haven't. And the op does not sound like a bad person who only cares about herself - she sounds stressed as anyone would in her situation.

Electra she says herself the only reason she didn't post it is because her DH didn't let her.

electra Tue 27-Sep-11 15:41:26

oh I definitely don't think that having a baby trumps the needs of others in fact that's one of my pet peeves.

SpringHeeledJack Tue 27-Sep-11 15:49:28

cheaperthantherapy Tue 27-Sep-11 09:16:50
I guess there is a difference if opinion on this one - but have taken a breath and I will talk f2f and calmly and of course apologise

can't believe this one is still going when the OP decided she was BU over 6 hours ago

snoooort

grin

<feels the AIBU luuuuuuuurve>

grovel Tue 27-Sep-11 15:54:55

Oi, SpringHeeled, wind your neck in.

OP, I can understand why you are upset and kudos to you for saying that you are going to go round and apologise. I think in the circumstances maybe you should pop round to neighbours on both sides with a bottle of wine and say how sorry you are about the noise and that you hope it will be a short lived issue. They will be your neighbours for a long time, potentially, and it's nice to have people near you on side. You will soon have another crying baby so don't add to your woes with a neighbour feud if you can help it!

SpringHeeledJack Tue 27-Sep-11 15:57:03

well, grovel, really

<hoiks>

grovel Tue 27-Sep-11 15:59:19

<hoiks>?

SpringHeeledJack Tue 27-Sep-11 16:03:20

my large bosom, of course

grovel Tue 27-Sep-11 17:35:40

Springy heels and a large bosom? A rare combo.

DandyLioness Tue 27-Sep-11 17:37:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ivykaty44 Tue 27-Sep-11 17:41:40

If I had a baby waking me 6 times every night - I would be mightly pissed off with both note and noise, both sides have shattered nerves I would think.

lack of sleep does take its toll

Bottle of wine might be in order for both of you.

Lots of sensible thinking to make sure you both get much needed sleep and lots of conversations to keep the peace

Hulababy Tue 27-Sep-11 17:58:12

I had a baby/toddler who did not sleep.
I lived at the time in a flat with neighbours nearby.
I did everything in my power to minimise night time noise.
I coslept as this helped reduce it.
DD luckily did not cry a great deal, was just awake, which helped.
At 20m we did controlled crying which solved the problem within 3 or 4 days.

But we had neighbours and I did speak to them and apologise if DD was disturbing them and explained that it was short term and we would ensure we did everything to prevent or reduce it. Before I did CC I spoke to immedate neighbours also, to warn them.

Sleep deprivation is awful. It is an awful lot worse when you can't control it, when it is not your baby.

I really feel for the neighbour. A week of being disturbed so much and months of twixe nightlyw akings. I struggle to sleep so being woken up int he early hours would result in me being awake longer than the 15 minutes it takes OP to settle her child. This would seriously affect me. I'd be a wreck for work and my own activities. TBH it would, by now, be starting to really grate.

For anyone to put a note through the door at 5am they have to feel pretty deserate let's face it.

It is down to the OP to speak to her neighbour and yes, to apologise for her disturbed nights. Surely that is common decency?

After all it most certainly isn't the neighbours fault she is not getting a decent night's sleep is it?

IwishIwasmoreorganised Tue 27-Sep-11 20:10:40

I don't think op's coming back - and I don't really blame her.

CardyMow Tue 27-Sep-11 21:25:30

Nah - She would be getting NO apology from me. Babies cry. Tough shit. If she doesn't want to hear it - then YES she will have to move IMO. Environmental health CANNOT get involved for a baby crying - no matter how annoying some people find it, it's natural. And sending a fucking note??!! WTF is wrong with coming round and talking to your neighbour? Or, even better, being sensible and accepting that babies cry.

jellybelly101 Tue 27-Sep-11 22:03:20

Wondering if your sense of entitlement could be any bigger huntycat?

Notsurehow Tue 27-Sep-11 22:17:10

Oh huntycat I would just love to be your neighbour hmm

I am sure that the EHO may not be able to have any influence but if the neighbour (who is entitled by legal definition to a "peaceful existence") chose to call social services........then what?
We all know babies cry but the longevity and frequency,to one who has no children and in desperation of a decent nights sleep,MAY lead her to believe there is a greater problem or just take whatever measures she can to try and get some sleep.
It is not her child,not her choice,she has no control but yet her life may be on the verge of collapse.We don't know the pressure she may be under at work or the effect her lack of sleep may be having on her.through no choice of her own.
The advice for the OP is clear,apologies/gifts and empathy,meds and visit to Dr,"soundproofing/changing sleeping arrangements",beyond that.......there is little else that can be done for/by either party.

ButWhyIsTheGinGone Tue 27-Sep-11 22:19:07

What a weird post, HuntyCat. Dogs shitting is natural, too. Would you want all over your lawn? Cos it's NATURAL, you know, so we should all have to put up with it, no matter how inconvenient...
Have some fucking empathy! The poor neighbour cannot sleep and is probbly struggling through the week as a result of disturbed night after disturbed night. It's not like it's HER fault!

ImperialBlether England Tue 27-Sep-11 22:23:39

Obviously you can't apologise for the baby crying as that's nobody's fault except the baby's and presumably she can't speak.

You can, though, say you're so sorry that the neighbour's sleep is disturbed.

I wonder whether the neighbour would cope better if she knew the baby and the mum and knew that they were suffering, too. When my neighbour's baby cried I'd think, "Oh god, poor X, having to be up all night" and I could go back to sleep. I knew she'd be desperately trying to calm the baby so that she could go back to sleep. And then I'd see the baby all happy and smiling the next day and we'd laugh about her being a party girl. I think a baby's cry, when I didn't know the baby, would upset and annoy me much more.

nailak Tue 27-Sep-11 22:26:58

doesnt the neihbour think that perhaps the mother of the crying baby is facing a harder time then she is?

microserf Tue 27-Sep-11 22:28:37

i don't think the OP was BU. a note at 5am is aggressive and rude. a knock on the door at 5pm to discuss the issue calmly like adults would have been fair. a crappy way to deal with the problem.

really shocked at all the "some people think they're entitled because they're parents" posts here with no sympathy for OP. i've been there, and while we made every effort to minimise the sound (including taking our child to the lounge downstairs from 4:30am every morning...), it didn't stop our bastard neighbour from banging on the wall.

worraliberty England Tue 27-Sep-11 22:33:04

A knock at 5am and a convo between a stressed out tired mother and a stressed out tired neighbour, could have been explosive.

11plus Tue 27-Sep-11 23:28:03

well im sorry but considering that op was the one that posted and not the neighbour i feel i am more going to side with her than neighbour. i think to suggest there are problems exceeding what op has said is wrong, waking up a lot in a week is not cause to go to doctors, they would piss themselves laughing if you did. The neighbour was arsey to post such a letter - there were other actions she should have taken first if she wanted to maintain any kind of relationship with her neighbour. OP obviously feels bad about it all, and isnt doing it on purpose, and I really dont GET anyone that makes demands that she checks her baby at the dotors, puts padding on walls etc. Way over the top if you ask me, little one is not going to be like that forever, and actually teething can make a child scream themselves sick for a week, because it certainly did mine...teething can indeed maake children feel really bad. Just because it didnt make yours that bad, it doesnt mean anything.

11plus Tue 27-Sep-11 23:31:08

and also they arent in the same room, there is some silencing betwen them, likie a whole wall - maybe neighbour has problems that are making her super sensitive, if not then it is crappy insulation, that OP is not the only one responsible for.

Dexifehatz Tue 27-Sep-11 23:40:10

What the fuck did this stupid neighbour really expect the mother to do? Move house? Smother child? Stupid bitch!

A whole wall can be nothing. My house was built in 1939 and you would assume the walls between the houses are pretty thick. Not at all. My new neighbours have had a burglar alarm fitted and I already know the code cos of the number of times I've heard them programme it in on the other side of our living room wall.

Notsurehow Wed 28-Sep-11 00:01:23

11plus and Dexie....you have clearly always been parents,always been completely tolerant of any situation,had the ability to sleep through world war three,been able to hold down any job with little sleep (through no fault of your own and beyond your control) and obviously only every cared about you,never given a thought to those who may be affected by your actions.
Gold star-go to the top of the class!
There has been a lot of cosntructive (albeit sometimes harsh-but life is) advice on this thread.The OP is probably shocked by it but there seem to be 3 clear bits of advice from the majority
1.Apologise (with gift) face to face and explain
2.Get DC to the Dr or medicate appropriately for teething pain
3.Do everything possible to minimise the noise permeating to the neighbour.

'Nuff said....

DENMAN03 Wed 28-Sep-11 00:07:30

Dexi...Jeez...glad I dont live next to you!

BerylStreep Wed 28-Sep-11 00:14:23

There are some right charmers on here hmm

I feel sorry for both the OP & the neighbour (and the baby!).

Lots of sensible suggestions to calm the situation, and to take practical measures to reduce the impact.

Whatmeworry Wed 28-Sep-11 00:21:34

Dexi, 11plus...welcome to the wonderful world of My Baby Trumps Your Life....

triskaidekaphile Wed 28-Sep-11 00:39:32

Much sympathy, cheaperthantherapy. I live in a terraced house and read a thread very similar to this one when my daughter was a tiny non-sleeping screamnik. It sent me into huge anxiety every time she awoke as I was convinced the neighbours must hate us, adding to my despair that she would not or could not sleep. Luckily for me (but not for the neighbour concerned) one neighbour was quite deaf and heard nothing but I sent several apologetic notes to the non-deaf ones on the other side and always apologised when I saw them too. They were always very lovely and swore that they couldn't hear her yells, which must have been a lie as I hear them sneezing all the time! Basically babies cry and there is no option for neighbours except to suck it up until it passes. Apologetic communication may make them feel a bit better so is worth a try. Have you considered some sleep training? It proved the answer for us (and the neighbours!). I'd start a regime of judicious calpol administration when pain is a factor and controlled crying asap if I were you!

buttonmoon78 Wed 28-Sep-11 07:24:09

microserf I think you're taking the entitlement thing wrong. You made every effort to minimise noise (though that clearly wasn't good enough for you neighbour!). Some posting on here have little sympathy for their neighbours and that is where the entitlement thing comes in. smile

BootyMum Wed 28-Sep-11 09:42:42

May have already been said [can't be bothered to read all 15 pages]...

But get your DD an amber teething necklace - they are fantastic imo.

My eldest DS used to scream like this when teething [no necklace] so when DS2 started teething I bought one to try and it has been a revelation. Minimal discomfort to baby, no screaming, two teeth through now!

I think your neighbour is unreasonable and very PA.

But agree that you should perhaps go talk to her [politely!] and explain the realities of a teething toddler at the same time assuring her you are doing everything possible to minimise late night screaming.

Otherwise if neighbour still bothered, yes she may just have to move! Au revoir love!

kerrymumbles Wed 28-Sep-11 10:09:15

the point is....

if you know you are causing anxiety, sleepless nights and distress to your neighbors you apologize for it.

doesn't matter if it can be helped or not.

just common courtesy, empathy and niceness.

hmm

DandyLioness Wed 28-Sep-11 10:41:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DooinMeCleanin Wed 28-Sep-11 10:51:10

Do you blame her Dandy, the way this thread has gone? Jesus! It's not like the poor cow has been having all night parties which have disturbed her neighbour.

Her baby was crying. She was doing her best to try and soothe it and in her tired and stressed fog she did not consider the neighbour. She needs shooting really, t'is only right. hmm

Babies cry. If you don't want to hear them then move to the arse end of no-where on your own land. When you have neighbours you have to expect noise. It's just the way it is. And the neighbours on meds? Yeah, right! Of course she is. My GP almost laughed me out of his surgery for asking him of there was anything to help me sleep through DH's snoring. He sent me on my way with instructions to buy a bigger house or earplugs. I very much doubt the neighbour's doctor would have medicated her because of a crying baby. The neighbour is being melodramatic and passive aggressive and inconsiderate.

Yes Op should have apologised but that doesn't give the neighbour a free pass to behave however she likes.

Aye like the OP is coming back on here?!? I seriously doubt it!

buttonmoon78 Wed 28-Sep-11 10:56:45

Unless the constant lack of sleep has driven her to a point where she's beside herself. Your gp sounds particularly unsympathetic though I confess - I'd be looking at treatment for dh before asking for meds myself!

Nobody is saying that the neighbour has a right to behave how she likes. I think the general consensus of rational people says that the neighbour was bu for writing the note but that generally there was an understanding why she had.

DandyLioness Wed 28-Sep-11 11:00:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpringHeeledJack Wed 28-Sep-11 11:03:14

shesaidover24hoursagothatshewasgoingtoapologisetoherneighbour

thensheleftthethread

<cries>

<bangs head on desk>

<cries some more>

DooinMeCleanin Wed 28-Sep-11 11:06:40

I should imagine at 12 weeks PG with a baby/toddler waking her every night for the last however many months (a lot longer than the neighbour has been woken for) Op feels as though her brain is melting and she is not thinking as rationally as she normally would be.

I remember having terrible insomnia in the first stages of both pregnancies. I'd have literally sat and cried all night if I'd had a baby to deal with too. I did sit and cry some nights out of sheer fustration at my inability to sleep despite being knackered.

A bit more sympathy for the Op would not have gone a miss, I feel.

DandyLioness Wed 28-Sep-11 11:07:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fit2drop Wed 28-Sep-11 11:56:10

Well judging by some of the responses on here if justice is served the OP has probably been incarcerated for bieng in charge of a crying baby and stealing her neighbours sleep. and the baby has been given an ASBO for the abnormal behaviour of crying whilst fretful with teething problems and overstepping the right to wake up more than...... ????confused

oh just how many times a night is it acceptable to wake up, just so I know like , would hate my grandbabies to get a fixed penelty notice for overstepping the mark.hmm

OP hope you are Ok

SpringHeeledJack Wed 28-Sep-11 11:57:51

it is, Dandy

but just because it's the mn way doesn't mean it's goooood, iykwim

[killjoy emoticon]

SoupDragon Wed 28-Sep-11 12:01:46

LOL.
The neighbour wrote a note, she didn't fire bomb the house.

GenevieveHawkings Wed 28-Sep-11 12:07:53

It's bad enough having your sleep disturbed by your OWN bloody kids - let alone other people's!!

I feel sorry for the neighbour.

GenevieveHawkings Wed 28-Sep-11 12:12:46

I wonder if the people who are being so sympathetic to OP would feel the same if it was a barking dog that she had in there keeping her neighbour awake all night? I doubt it.

It's as normal for dogs to bark as it is for babies to cry isn't it?

DooinMeCleanin Wed 28-Sep-11 12:25:01

No it's not. Dogs bark if they are bored, stressed or guarding. All of which are problems which can be solved with training and responsible ownership.

Dogs behaviour and babies crying are not comparable IMO. If my dog was barking to the disturbance of my neighbours I would apologise and have done so in the past. I have never and will never apologise for my baby who is crying.

Andrewofgg Wed 28-Sep-11 12:49:43

Come off it Genevieve - I will don my heatproof jacket and say that if a dog is a nuisance to neighbours there are means of getting rid of the nuisance that day.

You cannot compare dogs to children. Children are what we are here for, they are entitled to love and protection. Dogs are just pets and compared to children the don't bloody matter!

Which does not mean that I do not sympathise with the neightbour who needs her sleep. What OP can and should do has been pointed out upthread and needs no repetition from me. But don't compare dogs to children or indeed adults like that.

IWillOnlyEatBeans Wed 28-Sep-11 13:57:33

I think I disagree with the majority (only read 2 pages) but I don't think you are BU. TBH it sounds like your DD might be exacerbating an existing problem rather than causing a new one (if that makes sense). I live in a similar set up to you. Baby next door would cry lots in the night (in room next to ours) - but I quickly learnt to tune it out and sleep through it.

However, I do agree that talking f2f is better than sending a note back.

Hope you manage to get a resolution soon.

IWillOnlyEatBeans Wed 28-Sep-11 13:58:36

by the existing problem - I mean your neighbour might be having trouble sleeping anyway, which is being made worse by the crying (not an existing problem between you and your neighbour).

piprabbit Wed 28-Sep-11 16:03:33

I think the reason that the OP annoyed some people a little is that she posted about being furious to have received a note from her neighbour.

If I had been the OP, I would have been posting about being mortified to have received such a note.

Tempingmaniac Wed 28-Sep-11 16:44:24

I don't agree with the majority either. I would never dream of complaining about neighbour noise which cannot be helped e.g. baby crying. I don't expect others to do it either. I would be very upset if I received a note. The content of the note was very confrontational and extreme as well.

If the note-writer posted here and said I'm thinking of writing a note saying... I think she would have been told YABVVVVU. She should have knocked on the door and had a polite chat if she was having problems.

kerrymumbles Wed 28-Sep-11 17:26:33

i imagine she felt incapable of having a polite chat, hence the note.

We don't actually know the content of the note, the OP didn't post it word for word. And in her first post she doesn't call it confrontational or extreme or anything else.

The OP also admits that her own hormones may have made her own reaction to it irrational, so perhaps what she does say about the note's content is coloured slightly by her own interpretation of it.

And the OP's husband thought her response was wrong and stopped her from retaliating with a "offended and grumpy" reply, complete with some earplugs she just happened to have handy, so he can't have thought the note or the neighbour was in the wrong.

Plus the OP has said she has already apologised to certain neighbours but not others and has accepted that she does at least owe this particular neighbour an explanation.

We don't know one single thing about this neighbour, we don't know if she is ill or has a difficult job, if she is going through a hard time for some reason, if she has covered her own house in egg box insulation and tried earplugs before she complained or if she is just a moaning cow who hates babies. Or for all we know she has lost a baby herself and finds it hard to listen to someone else's child cry. We don't know. So it's not fair to judge her on the basis of her note, as even the OP believes she herself overreacted to it.

All we do know that the OP says the neighbour has kept quiet for weeks, without complaining, and has seen the problem get worse with no explanation for it. She hasn't complained at the first bit of a noise, she's complained after weeks and weeks of escalating noise through out the night. And as we don't know exactly what the note said, we don't know if it's tone was desperate rather than angry or even jokey rather than aggressive or rude.

As someone said up-thread (think it was KerryMumbles), if you know you are causing your neighbour distress and disturbance, even if it is something as natural as a crying baby (toddler in the case of the OP's child, not a newborn) then you should at the very least apologise and try to do something to stop that disturbance.

And in this case, when the noise is a crying child, it's not unreasonable for the suggestions to include the OP trying to insulate the wall in some way, move the baby away from the party wall or look into the possibility of medical help to stop her baby from suffering so much pain. It's not like anyone has suggested she gag her child, they've suggested wall hangings and changing bedrooms and a quick trip to the doctor to see if the OP's child might have an ear infection rather than teething problems.

Which isn't a bad idea considering I thought my LO was teething this week and it has turned out to be a throat infection he is now taking medication for. I took him to the doctor today, following two disturbed nights, nobody laughed me out of the surgery and we just might have caught his infection before his tonsils turned septic (as the doctor so nicely put it). And yes, this morning I did ask my neighbour if we disturbed him and he said no.

BerylStreep Wed 28-Sep-11 19:37:04

Takethisonehereforastart - thank you for such a measured and sensible post.

smile

ilovesprouts Wed 28-Sep-11 19:43:06

she needs to get a grip babys cant help crying bet shes glad my ds2 not in the roon hes screams every nite but he has sn tho smile

RIZZ0 Wed 28-Sep-11 19:55:17

She's gone you monkeys!!!

This thread is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet it's maker! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace!
'It's metabolic processes are now 'istory! It's off the twig! It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off it's mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-THREAD!!

OpinionatedMum Wed 28-Sep-11 19:58:25

Personally i think she should...

RIZZ0 Wed 28-Sep-11 20:00:15

<head explodes>

wibble.

SoupDragon Wed 28-Sep-11 20:01:23

And yet, RIZZ0, you still feel the need to post on it. why is that do you think?

RIZZ0 Wed 28-Sep-11 20:10:59

Hee hee, look at you all supercilious and special!

Ok, I'll play. Because it keeps popping in in my Thread's I'm On. And because it's annoying when people don't read the thread and see that OP fucked off ages ago. And because it's fun to quote Monty Python.

You just posted too so nerr.

fit2drop Wed 28-Sep-11 20:35:29

RIZZO I may be bluffing but

I see your post
and raise you a complete and utterly useless bump post.

[poker face emoticon]

I see your bump and raise you "need to go out for a bit but will check in later OP hope all is well" and a further "how to make things better scenario"

wink

PANCHEY Sun 09-Oct-11 22:18:19

How did this all pan out in the end? Am very interested as I am in a similar situation but am not inclined to speak to my neighbour since her children had drunken parties twice a month for the first three years that we lived here, with not a single apology.....

We are also in London.

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