To think it utterly ridiculous that I am better off working part time at minimum wage......

[Gigantaur]

Than getting a full time job paying £20-25k?

Because that is the conversation i had at the jobcentre today.

They did a work calculation thingy and apparently i would be better off financially if i got a minimum wage job for 16 hours a week.

That is just ridiculous. I am a trained professional and yet im better off scrubbing bogs.

That is stupid non?

[DetectivePotato]

Look at it as a good thing. You can be at home with your DCs (if you have them) and still work. Isn't there a part time job you can do within your trained profession? Surely you don't have to work full time?

[TottWriter]

It is, but at least the jobcentre are trying to help you. It's not the govenment offering such appallingly low paychecks to people - it's private industry. Now, the argument then becomes why don't they increase minimum wage, but I imagine that's a lot more complicated than it seems on face value. And it's the non-existance of a 'living' wage at this level which makes people so reliant on tax credits.

As I say, you're right, the situation is utterly stupid, but forcing private companies to overnight replace tax credits would only lead to mass redundancies. I just don't know what the answer is.

[NinthWave]

"It's not the govenment offering such appallingly low paychecks to people"

Actually Tottwriter, it can be - I work for the Jobcentre and, like the OP, am better off working 18 hours a week and claiming tax credits than I would be working full time. It's insane!

[HappyMummyOfOne]

It may all change if the new government look at tax credits.

Just because its an option to work part time doesnt mean you have to choose it. If you are a trained professional then you can still look for a job in your profession and not claim benefits - you dont have to claim just because its an option.

[wahwah]

You might be better off financially, but working is about more than that. It's about using your training and contributing through the taxes you pay, surely doing that would make you 'better off' than a minimum wage job?

[LynetteScavo]

I don't see it as insane...I see it as a brilliant way to work(not far off minimum wage, but an enjoyable job), survive, and not have to put my DC in before and after school care.

This is why I love Gordon Brown.

Alternatively, someone could get a job earning more that £25K, and be better off financially.

[abdnhiker]

Gigantaur you're right - absolutely stupid. It makes me so frustrated that the system doesn't reward achievement. I hope it gets changed! I quit my job because we were better off without me working as a government scientist on what I considered a good wage when we factored in the cost of nursery for two kids. I'm now doing bits and bobs of contract work that pays better than my old job, but it's very irregular and stressful for family life (my DH has to work on a weekend so I can work during the week....)

HappyMummy I'm guessing the OP doesn't have enough money to make chosing not to claim benefits a sensible option.

[Gigantaur]

Well in my case it really is the benefit trap.
I left abusive x. Had to quit my job to care for Dc's, one of which has ASD.

Now that he is in a settled school environment and DD is at school full time i am able to contemplate going back to work.

Due to childcare issues i would be unable to go back to my old job as the hours are far too demanding.

I was looking at working in the same field but in a lower position, less responsibility meaning i could work 9-5 but obviously lower wages.

I asked her to calculate how i would be if i worked in a lower role part time earning about £8 per hour.
I would be slightly better off on paper, but in reality it wouldn;t be. I would have to pay for school meals x2 and dentists, prescriptions, opticians etc etc so in effect i would be about evens in the long run.

I have been incredibly grateful to the benefit system in this country. My ex pays not a single penny for his children as despite me informing the CSA of every job i am made aware of, they still believe him when he says he doesn't work. without the welfar system i have no idea where we would be. (well i probably couldn't have left XP so i would by now be either seriously injured or dead)

But surely it is a ludicrous state of affairs when i am looking at finding a job that pays less as it would mean that i would be better off?

[abdnhiker]

I really feel for you Gigantaur, I'd be just as frustrated!

[violethill]

Yes, it's utterly ridiculous, and one of the reasons why this country is a bit of a joke regarding certain policies. Of course people should be proportionately better off for working more hours.

HOWEVER, don't be fooled into thinking short term. In a proper salaried job you would be paying into your pension presumably. There's also the fact that a professional job which you've trained to do is far more likely to be fulfilling. It's frustrating to feel you need to 'play the system' and work only up to a certain number of hours, thus jeapardisng your future security of a good pension and also job satisfaction, just to earn as a bit more short term.

[OrganicHairbrush]

I agree with you, it's mad. Many years back (system has now changed, before anyone asks), I was in the position of being better off not working at all.

But if you're in any way able to manage it financially, I'd suggest going back to something you're qualified for. Bog-scrubbing jobs can be tortuosly soul-destroying if you're used to more challenging/responsible work!

[chesgirlNOTgriffins]

This system may seem nuts but its been a Godsend to my family.

OH has MS. He can only manage to work limited hours. He has never been out of work and intends to work as long as he possibly can. He works part time in the evenings.

I am OH's carer and am also main carer for DS3 who is disabled. I have also always worked (with a few gaps here and there) but cannot work full time. If I did OH would have to do stuff at home - he cant do that and work. I also have to go to lots of appts etc. with DS. So I work part time (10 hrs)

Within the current system we get by. Its possible for us to continue to pay taxes as we both have since our teens (both in our 40s). We can contribute (both work with disabled children) and feel like productive human beings.

If we went back to the old system we would very probably end up on full benefits and not pay tax. Its something that keeps me up at night with worry.

[OTTMummA]

I see more long term benifits to working FT, and having to basically scrimp by for a few years, than starting PT, possibly without the chance of going FT when you need/want to, and relying on benifits you can have.
no one really promotes a PT worker into a better FT job, especially if its 16/20 hours a week.
This year i have just gone back to work, FT and because i didn't work last yr we are making a good profit from getting childcare tax credits to cover nursery costs, but that will fall quite a lot next yr, and we will have to cover just about all of it bar £40 a week, my wage would cover the full amount plus £10 a week spare lol!
But we are saving half of what we get now so it will even out, and then hopefully i will get a rise or get promoted into a higher position etc, ive never not been promoted after 2 yrs service wherever ive been, and there are a lot of oppertunities available in my work to progress and be promoted.

if not then we will get by until my DS goes to school in 2013, and then we will have a lot of spare money to save and put away etc as we won't have to pay so much childcare.
I feel very lucky to have a FT job in this current situation, especially as i found it took a lot longer to get a job than any other time before now.

[TottWriter]

chesgirl - Agreed. I have epilepsy, and have been told that if I work full-time, my seizures will increase. If they increase, I go on SSP, and eventually lose my job (this has happened twice). If I am at home all day, I need a full-time carer to supervise me looking after my DS and DC2-to-be, because when I have a fit, they are compltetly unattended otherwise. My carer is my DP, who also has depression which renders him unable to work f/t.

So I will be going out to work p/t and claiming everything I can to give my children a decent quality of life until they are old enough to be safe with me during the day so my DP can also go to work.

Yes, the tax system provides massive loopholes which encourage lower and lower wages from both the public and private sector. But without it, we would have no quality of life at all, and through no fault of our own.

I agree with violethill too. Relying on benefits to prop you up is not a desireable position to be in long-term. State pensions are a joke, and the more you can put into a private one the better. Additionally, being stuck at home so many hours of the day is want to drive a person stir-crazy.

[Tinnabeans]

I was at the Jobcentre today. We had the Back to work talk given to us as if we were 5 year olds.
If we don't get jobs within 6 weeks we were told that we have to sign on weekly. (Made us sound like naughty children who weren't doing as we were told.)

I am a trained Nurse but unable to get back into my profession. I would have to do a Return to Practice course which are as rare as hens teeth.An NVQ4 and get a Registered Managers Certificate to get my old job back. As I am over 55 (shock)but have a child aged 11 it makes things worse.

When employers see my age they opt for the younger candidate.