Spoilt Rotten

[foureleven]

To kind of hope some of the mums from this programme are on here so we can find out what on earth they were thinking of??!?!!

I know this was on BBC on Tuesday but I only saw it last night. At first I thought it was cut and dry - parents fault.

Then when I saw the guy being taught by a doctor how to cut a kiwi fruit (?!) I thought my god, somewhere someone has failed this guy!

And what about the mother with the over weight son... surely she has mental health issues, no?

Also wanted to punch the doctor who's opening line right near the beginning of the program when discussing childhood obesity "we're seeing it more and more now, with more parents working, children speanding more time in front of the TV.."

Well, might as well have got the working mum bashing out of the way right at the start hey??!!

Strangly I was actually less concerned about the cost to the NHS and more concerned with the effect of these parents behaviours on the poor kids.

I mean, they clearly loved their children, the mums who were in hospital with their children having their teeth out were so distraught they made me have a little tear... So if they love them so much why arent they being stronger and saying no to all the sweets.. I suppose its the old 'killing with kindness' thing.

Discuss...

[SloanyPony]

I was appalled at some of it but felt they were slightly zoning in on the wrong things for a sensationalised effect.

For instance, the child with the front teeth being removed who was having 5 lollipops a day, they went on to say how they are seeing an increased amount of children with tooth decay and then started talking about bedtime bottles. This made my husband go white and look up from over his paper. DS is 2 and a half and doesn't have a bedtime bottle as such but he has a beaker of milk before bed and sometimes he has the last few sips after he's cleaned his teeth (if he leaves an inch or 2 in the bottom but then wants it after). I suppose we should say no to him, and may well start doing this, but I had to reassure my husband that 5 lollipops a day as well as bottles of god knows what during the day AND a bedtime bottle with a teat is not quite the same thing as DS's final inch of milk from a beaker after cleaning his teeth.

Then that silly woman who was dealing with the glue ear kids - saying "it makes no difference if you go outside to smoke". NO difference hey - great - so now they wont even bother going outside will they! I know its still bad to smoke outside as its on the breath and hands and all that stuff but surely its not the same as sitting in the same room smoking with all the side stream smoke and the air around the child being full of smoke etc. C'mon! By all means tell them that its ALSO dangerous smoking outside and that there is still an effect on the child but PLEASE!

So I did think it was a little sensationalised.

Having said that the mother with the 10 stone 5 year old was seriously deluded. She let him have 2 pieces of swiss roll, 2 weetabix piled with fruit and then a full meal that was bigger than I'd serve to my DH or he'd serve to me all within the space of 2 hours.

Can I also add that I sometimes think they go on a little bit too much about exercise and healthy eating on these shows to the extent that some people really do think that all you have to do is increase your activity a bit and make healthy food choices. This may well be the case with a mildly overweight child who is going down the wrong path but this child was a prime example of it being more than just that - doesn't matter how healthy the food is, if they are eating too much, that is the first thing you should address. Exercise is great, but it takes a fair bit of effort in the gym to burn off one mars bar. Its easier just not to eat it in the first place. Portion control, healthy choices, physical activity, in that order for best results, in my personal opinion based on my experience, anyway!

[porcamiseria]

I had to turn over when they were operating on the 3 years old and taking his milk tetth out , poor little chap

agree that Mum of the little 7 years old was not quite all there

I think the doctor was right tho, years ago we had flu. cholera.polio etc. There is always going to be SOMETHING

IMO its down to education, the parents really dont know any better

[PeedOffWithNits]

i only saw a few minutes of this, because I forgot it was on, but I know i would have been upset and livid. The bit I saw was a 2 yo having rotten teeth out. absolutely un necessary, what is wrong with people!

[Scout19075]

I saw this program yesterday, too. The baby under 2 having her teeth removed due to decay made me cry (literally, there was a tear). They hurt so much coming in, I can only imagine what sort of hurt she had as they got that bad. I already have a "my first toothbrush" for DS (5.5 mos) for his first pearly white and I let him watch me brush my teeth so he sees it's a normal part of the daily routine. Then again, I'm American and we're retentive about teeth/dental care....

What also struck me as odd was the woman who said something to the effect of "there was no one to tell me that I shouldn't do that" (in response to allowing bottles full of whatever past a certain age). Surely that's what HVs do -- check milestones, give advice, etc.?

[shockers]

These are the kind of parents that the the Government are trying to target with 5 a day, healthy lunchbox campaigns and such. They get an awful lot of flak on here for it though.

[tortoiseonthehalfshell]

[wukter]

Aha, but you see tortoise, children spend less time running around outside, while mother watches fondly from kitchen window elbow deep in greasy pots.

[ClaireyFairy82]

I have to take my dog to the vet for an annual health check every year. Would some of these problems in children be avoided if children also had annual health checks. We get lots of support from health visitors when they're babies but this dries up as they get older and they are no longer checked over by nurses in schools. Issues could be tackled early on, with parents being referred for help and support when things arise.

Just an idea.

[shockers]

This is true tortoise... my Mum didn't work so I suppose she didn't spend as much time with me as the pressure wasn't there to 'do things'. However, I played out a lot and our Mums were there when we called in at various homes to offer us drinks and jam sandwiches.
On the whole, I think we had a lot less sedentary time than most children these days.

[minxofmancunia]

Hmmm I felt the programme was interesting but objected to the slant it took on some issues, very one dimensional. the Dr at the end talking about the A+E dept being effectively being "clogged up" by drunk teenage A+E attenders detracting from children with real problems and needs.

the children who drink have real needs too, just a little more complex than those with more obvious helth needs. They have emotional and social needs and A+E is often the first port of call in adressing these needs and thye deserve to be treated with compassion empathy and respect just like all the other children. I do MH assessments on children who've attended A+E for episodes of deliberate self harm and have been on a long and sustained campaign as part of my job to raise awareness in A+E staff of the needs of people who self harm as they are often treated with less understanding and compassion that other A+E attenders, some are activley critised by the staff.

all children deserve care regardless of whther it's their "fault" or not.

[tortoiseonthehalfshell]

No, but you really didn't.

Well, you personally might have done. That's your experience, obviously, you are the expert on that and no amount of statistics will prove otherwise.

But kids today do the same amount of exercise as they did a generation ago.

Goddamn it, my google-fu is failing me. I'm positive that I'm right, but my usual source has something wonky going on with its search filter. So, you know, I'll just claim it's true if that's alright with everyone.

[loungelizard]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with minxofmancunia.

It was none of those children's 'fault'. It was their parents' fault, but even that is too simplistic. Surely it is a combination of many things to end up with children like those.

The boy drinking vodka looked deeply unhappy (as I imagine the obese boy will be very soon). Presumably that is why he ended up drinking vodka at that age.

Very, very depressing and distressing.

[communicationisfab]

I dont think there was any question of them not recieveing the care they needed. I think the point was rather that these were perhaps situations which chould be avoided. It seemed to me that the mother of the very overwieght boy almost wanted him to have something wrong with him! Very ready with the wheel chair etc. Bizarre and I am probably going to upset people by suggesting that maybe its linked to benefit enititlement!!!

[minxofmancunia]

Yes loungeliard that poor little boy looked so sad it broke my heart a bit. And your very right it's not as simle as anything being the psrents etc "fault" they love their dcs but are often clueless or limited because of their own experiences and often have v low self esteem themselves. And they go into a state of blame/denial because they can't cope with the guilt.

It's very difficult for some families.

[porcamiseria]

sweets and crap food are (a) cheaper (b) easily acessible and (c) alls thats on offer in some cases

growing up we never had sweets and choc in the house. now you go to peoples houses and they have drawers of it

if a family are on benefits its cheaper to get shit snack food from Iceland than cook from scratch

Its very sad

[activate]

victim mentality does not help

at some stage children take responsibility for their own actions

there are many many stories of people who rise to the top despite or because of their neglected upbringing - it is personal choice and somewhat luck

so no it is not always the parents' fault it does eventually become the child's too

we all have cards stacked against us

I also find the immediate response to any "more working parents" comment to be it is nothing to do with both parents working to be naive. Yes women and mothers should have the right to work but not naively, it does have the potential to make a difference to the children - and that can be positive or negative - but trying to act like it makes no difference at all just becuase we work now is wishful thinking

[Oenopod]

The doctor didn't have a go at working mums, he said working parents. There has been a shift towards two incomes being necessary to sustain mortgages, etc. Why assume the comment is directed at mothers?

And children do have access to a myriad of technological gadgets that discourage physical activity.

I'd be surprised if it is true that children (all children, not just middle class ones) have more exercise today - it would be out of line with the rest of the population.

The population as a whole is getting fatter and less active.

[olderandwider]

tortoise - are you thinking of a study that found that kids must be doing more exercise than we all believed because they should be fatter than they are based on the foods they consume?

[Ivykaty44]

what occured to me whilst watching two of the mothers speak aboutthere childrens, very young childrens eating habits was that it was thier children deciding what to eat and not the parent talking "Sally will have a lollipop when they wake up" as if they have no part to play in this and that is probably the reason it happens, they are not realsiing they do have a part to play and need to parent - someone needs to show them how to parent

[Ivykaty44]

my ddof 17 asked why the tomato sauce wasn't replaced with tomatoes? when the little girl wouldn't eat her dinner with out the sauce. no one has taken the time or trouble to show the alternatives this mum can give her daughter

[posieparker]

A generation ago parents spent less time with children? No they didn't. My mother was unusual as a working mother, in fact she used to get abuse from other workers about leaving her children!

I think we all have less time, we do our shop in one place instead of walking down the high street and going to local shops, we drive everywhere, never let our dcs out....and we eat processed shite(not we but we)

[communicationisfab]

I didn't mean that being on benefits would cause the child to be overweight (we have recently had to cut back considerably and I have been amazed how cheap it is to cook heathy, filling meals and even more amazed that my children will eat them!). I meant that a son with a disability would give access to additional benefits - the mum was actively encouraging him to get into the wheelchair and eat when he had not asked for it (I know it is edited and we can only judge by what we see)and she reacted so defensively/aggressively to suggestions that she was simply feeding him too much - healthy food.

[posieparker]

I have to say as an organic buying whole food eating family we have just gone through our worst financial time since I began earning money. It's easier to buy and cook food that the dcs will eat than to watch expensive food wasted. So I can guarantee mash, frozen sweetcorn and veggie sausages will get eaten rather than the, harder to cook, pig's cheek stew!

[hogshead]

the trouble with the programme was it only showed the end result - it didnt really show how the system had failed these children and their parents which led up to them needing so many teeth out - you dont suddenly wake up one morning with 8 rotten teeth that need removing. What support did they get along the way? Did the parents take the advice? Did they even have a dentist?

[hazeyjane]

When I was little we did eat shit all the time, Smash potato, Bernard Matthews, tinned vegetable salad(!), penny chews, my school dinner was usually spam fritter and chips and I remember my sister and I staying in and watching a fair bit of tv (and it was stuff like Crown Court - what the hell were we thinking!). I don't think it was particularly unusual, most of our friends were doing the same sort of thing.

I'm just curious because everyone else on here talks about not eating processed food when they grew up and playing out all the time, but this just wasn't my experience - surely I can't be the only one!