so am i being unreasonable?

[Megancleo]

I have been seperated from dh for six monthes now, have 3 dc 15,9,6 and livein Germany(have lived here for 22 years)I have only worked freelance p/t for over ten years and now it is difficult to find new better paid work here without training again.Maintenance has been problematic, irregular and now its decided, due to his debts, he cant pay full amount. I should also move as our appt is so expensive and unless I get a job break, cant see much perspective. Ex sees Ds and dd2 once a week, dd1 doesn#t want to see him at all and at 15 she can choose. Lately I keep thinking how would it be if I got the chance to work in UK again, dd1 would love to go and despite a part of me lovin Germany, I would love the challenge of moving back ( or being a foreigner in UK) yet would it be fair to force other 2dc to leave germany and father. A part of me argues that, given that he doesn't worry about maint or more than a few hours together with children a week, I have the right to decide to go if I find work but then...sorry its a long one!

[JustMyTwoPenceWorth]

Do you have the legal right to move the kids out of the country? Is that something you have to get a court to agree?

[WhereYouLeftIt]

It's all a bit academic unless there is a real prospect of finding well-paid regular work in the UK.

You say retraining would be necessary in Germany, wouldn't that also be the case in the UK? Plus housing is very expensive here at the moment, probably more so than in Germany.

[flowerybeanbag]

It should be about what's best for your dc, not whether or not you have the right to go where you like because your ex doesn't pay enough maintenance. It's not about whether it's fair enough to irritate him by taking his children to another country, it's about whether it's fair to them. At the moment your two youngest have a relationship with their father and see him regularly. Assuming they are happy with that, don't take that away from them.

[mumbar]

My DP split when DS was 13mths - hes 5 1/2 now. Split was due to his adultery. Maintenence was monthly on any day he felt like!!! and he saw DS at his convenience not when I was working or wanted to go out even if he wasn't working these days!!! And he wouldn't commit to regular contact.

Anyway the point I returned to the UK. He has made less and less effort and doesn't pay maintenence but I am much happier and so is my DS becuaes of this.

Discuss it with the kids and if they agreee Germany isn't that far away from their father and maybe a whole wek in school hols would be better than a few hours here and there???

BEST OF LUCK

[mamsnet]

It depends on the country though.. I don't know about Germany but in the U.S, for example, you could get in a whole lot of trouble..

[SloanyPony]

Its likely you would have to go through a court to move your children but having said that its unlikely a court would refuse to grant you that permission if better prospects await you in the UK.

Having children in a country or to a person of that country does not mean you are stuck there forever.

[Megancleo]

flowerbeanbag, I'm also talking about whats fair to my dc..is it fair to hang about in a country for a father whos "nerves can only cope with dc for a few hours in McD" because hes been out till 6.am drinking and who would rather give up his work than pay regular maintenance. yes dc do need both parents but its very hard abroad when you cant pay bills, pay rent, afford food and thats not fair to dc-especially when it could be that I have job chances in Uk.I do have an MA and worked (albeit 10 years ago) in Uni so why should I settle for a minimum existence here if I manage to get decent job/retraining in UK Uni with family help.yes, whereyouleftit I would face same problems in UK but believe me, alone without family abroad its more difficult. Appts here are to rent for 900 pounds plus, then we have to find private health insurance monthly..don't get me wrong, I'm not sayin UK is the answer I'm just saying someone has to pay the bills, be a grown-up and IF i was to get a job in UK uni? Mambar thanks, good to hear it worked for you. dd1 wants UK move, ds(9) not as he loves Bayern football, chess club etc(perhaps dad too but no wonder he mentions it when ex is always bleating about not ever wanting dc anyway) and dd2 is unable to understand..the authorities have also said that as he can't keep paying maintenance, noone can blame me if after our year seperation, I ask for custod

[flowerybeanbag]

It just sounded from your OP as though the maintenance was a factor. It sounded as though you were (justifiably) irritated with him for not paying as much, therefore you felt justified in irritating him by moving the children to another country. I may have misunderstood you of course.

My point was that if moving away is what's best for your dc, then fine, but their relationship with him should be what you consider, not how much money he pays you, as that's not relevant to them and is more about your relationship with him.

Mind you, I have quite a black and white view of this type of thing. My view would be that if you moved his children away he ought to up and follow you and move near you wherever you go to be near his dc and be part of their life as much as possible. It doesn't sound like he's that type of bloke really though...

[mumbar]

I do sympathise with you as you can see from my OP that I was in the same situation.I was working 7 til 4 then 5 eves a night childminding to be able to pay rent/ bills food etc. No family and support. I didn't need (or didn't get!!!) permission to bring DS back to the UK. His dad didn't contest it and because we are both british making our DS british I don't think there is a prob.

I would look at internet and see if directgov website has any info on where you stand.

Best of luck I really do understand what you are going through and would be happy to chat with you anytime - even if you just need to vent!!!!

[Megancleo]

Thanks ladies, some interesting points!reading my thread again, its no wonder you misunderstood me flowerbeanbag but your answer did get me thinking...trouble is, it is difficult to "know" whats best for dc in this situation.when you say "not how much money he pays you." shouldn't be an issue, do you mean how much of the childrens maintenance he's actually willing to pay ("you didn't think you could leave me and get money for the children did you")given the reality of being poor abroad or do you mean that, in your opinion, I should not even consider it from a monetary point of view? No hes certainly not the type who would follow his children even to the end of the street if it didn't fit in with his plans! sloanypony, I agree theoretically that having children abroad shouldn't mean this and was glad to see you also stating my feelings(!) but I'm certainly not the only mum stuck abroad with this dilemma. of course ideal would be two adults there for dc whether in 1 or2 countries but when you've finally found the courage to escape from a controlling, verbally abusive marriage you are faced with difficult choices. Mumbar, thanks for the support and yes, even if ex is from uk you must get permission-makes sense to protect dc being kidnapped but courts do not seem to look very much at individual cases. Last summer I came to uk and was not planning to come back with dc until the Hague convention was explained to me. Glad I came back now so as ex could have the chance to really show what a lousy parent he is. In Oct I'll try for custody and yes, if I don't get it and no job miracles happen here I will, like you, leave without permission. ex would have to give up a lot of partytime to complete forms so no real worry me thinks. I guess my biggest Angst is my son especially would be so terribly unhappy in UK..who knows how happy and carefree our dc will be tomorrow, enough worrrying about today..yet it is time to start thinking of me too.I found the courage to end rel because I really culdn't take anymore on a daily basis but the years of social isolation,being controlled and shouted at have changed my self-confidence..and belief that I am capable of making such big decisions.Thats why I really am thankful for all feedback,mumsnet,and my still-intact english sense of humour!Grief, this is long!

[mumbar]

Well done for listening to advice and then making the best decision for your family. YOU SHOULD BE PROUD. HOLD UR HEAD HIGH.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

Just be careful that your children dont resent the cut off with their dad, they may think its not important now but once they get older they may resent you moving them from their other parent. He may not be the best dad in your opinion but he is their only dad.

Also, the UK is expensive so unless you have a firm job offer you need to ensure you can support yourself and the children whilst you find work.