Ed Balls' statistics!

[AreAnyNamesAvailable]

Ed Balls was on BBC news this morning saying that the gvt had been successful in reducing teenage pregnancies. He stated that conceptions were down 10% and births were down 20%. Is he actually implying that it is successful if teenagers get pregnant but then have an abortion so that the child is not born and therefore does not upset the statistics? Grrrrrr.

[EccentricaSchuster]

yes.

and that's how come other european countries have lower rates of teenge parents. conception rates are similar - but less actual births.

and the whole easier access to contraception and abortion is being sold in the same sentence.

[TweedyneeCole]

I don't see what's wrong with this, but I suppose it depends on your view on abortion.

Obviously the ideal scenario is that teenagers don't get pregnant in the first place, but in the real world, I think on balance it is probably better for the individual and society if teenagers who do get pregnant terminate. Harsh, but true.

[EccentricaSchuster]

but is teenage pregnancy a product or cause of poverty?

why does society have a negative view of young parents?

should interventions to improve lives be in place before, during or after teenagers get pregnant?

[Ewe]

Both conceptions and births are down... I can't see that as a bad thing to be honest. We're a pro-choice country and for teenage girls it is quite often a sensible decision to come to.

Of course in an ideal world nobody would get pregnant unintentionally at a young age but as I'm sure I don't need to point out, we're not in an ideal world!

[AreAnyNamesAvailable]

I suppose it does depend a lot on your views on abortion, it's the fact that abortion seems to be bracketed with contraception much of the time (I even heard a child at a secondary school answer 'abortion' when asked about contraception )
I have never had an abortion but friends who have (all 3 of them were in their 20s when it happened) said that it was horrific and that they will never get over it, even if it was the right thing to do. I worry about the effect it would have on a teenager.
I think that Ed Balls quoting abortion as a successful way of reducing the number of teenage mothers is showing that the issue is not being dealt with, and if the gvt thinks that abortions are a sensible and effective method of birth control they will not make any effort to reduce the number of teenage girls who find themselves in this situation and have to go through this.
(And breathe...)

[TweedyneeCole]

I agree that abortion shouldn't be grouped together with contraception. It is a different thing altogether.

However, I dont agree that abortion necessarily disrupts people's lives in the long term. I'm not making light of it, honestly - I know it affects some people dreadfully, and obviously it isn't pleasant for anyone - but I have plenty of adult friends who had abortions in their younger years and have never regretted their decision or found it a particularly hard burden to live with.

[LucyDeSpiderman]

When I read this I thought the same as EccentricaSchuster. As a young Mum myself (had ds at 18 and dd at 20) I just cannot understand why all teenage parents are (unfairly) tarnished with the same brush. Tweedyneecole, I think to say that teenagers who get pregnant should terminate is ridiculous. If I hadn't of had my son when I did, chances are I would now be living off benefits-I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life at all, I'd started a course at college which I quit after a couple of months, then went on to start a training course which I was ready to quit too as I wasn't enjoying it. Then I fell pregnant, and it put things into perspective for me, I realised, as do many, many other teenage parents, that I had to make something of my life. I worked as hard as I could to finish the course almost a year early, and completed it when 8.5 months pregnant. My partner works, so supported us while I had time at home with the baby, which gave me time to really think about what I wanted to do. If I hadn't fallen pregnant I WOULD have quit the course, and chances are would now be unemployed or in a dead end job, still sponging off either my parents or the state. As it is, I'm at college, aiming for uni (midwifery) next year, have two beautiful children, and I'm really looking forward to the future. We live in a privately rented house, not a council house like many people think all young parents do, we eat no processed food what-so-ever, and my son is way ahead in terms of his development.
I know I am only one example, but I know I am not the only young parent who doesn't completely fuck up. My younger (half) brothers Mum was in her 30's when she had him, but she's a raging alcoholic/drug user, is in & out of my brothers life as & when she feels fit, and is generally a poor, poor excuse of a Mother. But she wasn't a teenager, so she is obviously better suited to being a parent than my partner & I. Can you not see how ridiculous that is?
Sorry - bit of a rant there , this is just something I feel quite strongly about.

[Lucyellensmumma]

ABORTION IS NOT A FUCKING CONTRACEPTIVE!!

[Lucyellensmumma]

lucy, i was a young mum too, and a single mother to boot! i managed to raise a perfectly happy baby into a perfectly happy and balanced teenager who has a full time job and contributes to society and was and is the best thing that ever happened to me - but there are some that would argue it was better that i had an abortion? SICK

[Lucyellensmumma]

"but I have plenty of adult friends who had abortions in their younger years and have never regretted their decision or found it a particularly hard burden to live with." in the context of this thread - thats the saddest thing i have ever read

[chandellina]

i'm pro-choice but agree that there is something sad if there is an underlying suggestion that teen pregnancies are best dealt with via abortion, and that could be the message girls get (that it's the ideal outcome).

[Lucyellensmumma]

I am pro-choice, i am pro choosing to keep ones legs shut, take the pill or wear a condom - those are all choices!

I am not anti abortion, its a very personal thing - but to say that the goverment consider themselves a success because the abortion rate in young girls is up - because that is what is suggested here - in fact, if the birth rate is down 10% and the abortion rate up 20% doesnt that just mean that the same amount of girls are getting pregnant but more are choosing abortion? oh no, its conception rate - but how do they know this - because the conception is going to lead to one of two outcomes (disregarding MC) abortion or birth, so i stand by my assumption. Yeah, nice on Ed, good job

[Ewe]

A few things, firstly, I doubt that many teenage girls are watching Ed Balls on BBC Breakfast. Even if they were, I credit teenagers with enough intelligence to realise that the message here isn't 'use abortion as a contraceptive', come on, nobody is saying that.

Lucy and Lucy, I am sure you have both done an exceptional job raising children. You must concede however that becoming a parent at 14/15/16 is never an ideal situation. Whilst at 18 you are technically a 'teen' you are an adult so imo it is a bit different.

I think the point of these statistics is to emphasise the drop in conceptions, which is great. The decrease in actual births of 20% is most likely being used as an example of how easier access to early abortion enables more choice and a better education/pastoral system will also mean this being more of an option to some teens. Let's not forget that they are electioneering here.

[TweedyneeCole]

I would'nt argue that any woman/girl who doesn't want an abortion should have one, of course not.

And I know several women who were young parents and have done an amazing job of it.

But we're not talking anecdotal evidence.

The life chances of children born to teenage parents are significantly lower than those born to older parents. That is a fact. Why do you think the government are so desperate to stop teenagers having children?

[slightlystressed]

I had an abortion at 18, at its a decision I have never regretted. But on the other hand if I had chosen to go ahead with the pregnancy I would not have regretted that decision either.

Its a personal choice of course, but quite frankly if I ever have a daughter who gets pregnant before she's taken her GCSEs I would want her to abort, although I would never push it on her.

Conception rates are down, that is good, teenagers are choosing to have more abortions - thats their choice, and it's good that they have this choice.

[Lucyellensmumma]

but tweedy, they may not go on to be doctors and lawyers, but who are we do decide that they would be better off if they were not born?

I am deeply saddened that early abortion is being portrayed as a part of pastoral care in schools - what should be taught is CONTRACEPTION, CONTRACEPTION, CONTRACEPTION - lets make our teenage girls and boys confident enough to sort out their contraception, instead of frowning on teenage sex, teenage sex is a fact of life - it happens, lets keep them SAFE! There may be less stigma involved with abortion and its good that people don't feel they need to agonise over this decision, but there will be a number of young mums who choose abortion and WILL go on to regret it and regret it deeply. To say you know lots of adults who have done this and have no regrets is just as annecdotal as us two lucys saying, look we were teen mums and turned out ok.

I still can't get my head around the conception rate being low and the abortion rate being treated separately - how can this be assessed, it can only be recorded if it ends in a birth, MC or abortion - so, if the conception rate is down 10% they must be measuring birth rate and abortion rate - but abortion is up by 20%? Im obviously having a blonde moment because it makes no sense - but then statistics rarely do.

[Lucyellensmumma]

if my DD2, who is four gets pregnant before her GCSEs, i will do what my mother did, support her no matter what decision she makes, but would hope and pray that she chose to keep the baby. I had no qualifications when i had DD1, i now have a Phd and am sat here filling my application form for teacher training. I have no doubt in my mind that i wouldnt have done this if i didnt have DD1 to motivate me. I say this because i think it is actually very common that, given adequate support, young mums become focused on getting an education to support their children, it happens alot. Being a young mum, whilst not "ideal" isn't the end of the world and certainly doesnt mean a wasted education.

I would hope however that i would be open enough with her that she felt she can talk to me abnout contraception and not get in this position

[slightlystressed]

No abortion isn't up by 20%, I think conception is down 10%, and birth is down 20% so does that mean abortion is up by 10%?

I dyed my hair brunette, it hasn't helped!

[Lucyellensmumma]

my hair has gone brunette over the years, to be honest, i think it has made things worse!

[omaoma]

Lucyellen, unfortunately no contraception is 100%. If every teenage sexual interaction involved contraception it would be fantastic, but there would still be some pregnancies. Even 40-somethings who've used belts and braces all their lives fall pregnant despite their best efforts (i know of one). Just to be pedantic.

[Lucyellensmumma]

so what is the reason then starlight? do enlighten me? I thought the reason i got pregnant was because the condom came off clearly i have got it wrong

[omaoma]

erm.... you are then a case in my point Lucyellen! If you still think abortion shouldn't be an option for a teenager in your situation, you can't really describe yourself as pro-choice... what's right for you doesn't have to be right for everybody.

[Lucyellensmumma]

I do think that contraception education is key, i also think that girls especially should be educated into not having sex before they are emotionally ready - but they may well think they are. The problem is all those hormones are almost pushing teenagers into having sex, so they are battling their bodies, their curiosity and peer pressure - if we can't get them to abstain it is our responsibility to get our heads out of the sand and ensre they practice safe sex

[omaoma]

that's the issue really isn't it - emotionally ready versus hormonally ready. i liked the idea on the mark thomas manifesto - all blokes have a vasectomy aged 13, can reverse it whenever they want kids...