To think our NHS dentist should provide the care DP requires!!!

(86 Posts)
lilylu22 Thu 04-Feb-10 17:17:18

Instead of trying to refer him to a private hygienist!!

DP has a severe gum infection... Tried and tried and tried to resolved it at home with almost obsessive brushing and mouthwashing, but to no avail.

Went to see our NHS dentist who told us he required 'deep cleaning'. However that he would only offer one standard NHS clean but DP should 'for the sake of his own health' visit the private hygienist for a deep clean.

Funnily enough, there is NHS literature in his waiting room that states, 'if your dentist says that you need a particular type of treatment, you should not be asked to pay for it privately'.

I just feel his is taking the P and that this is exactly the type of care the NHS is supposed to provide. I was with DP so I triple checked with the dentist the care he was suggesting we seek was 'clinically necessary' (what the NHS says it will provide) - and he was very rude and made out like I was thick, "that's what I just said". I asked that refer us to a NHS hygienist so we could have the treatment done, but he said such a thing doesn't exist.

Have rang our local primary care trust that suggest we go to have the NHS 'brief clean' he is offering then consult a new NHS dentist to see if he has resolved the problem entirely. If not, they will deal with him - for breach of his contact to provide all necessary services to NHS patients..

BUT - it seems unfair we have to go thought consulting a second dentist etc when he himself admits DP will need more than one clean. Imagine how many more people this dentist is exploiting but getting them to privately pay to what they are entitled to under the NHS..

Rant over - AIBU??

Sassybeast Thu 04-Feb-10 17:23:21

Confused about the issue of him exploiting patients - does HE provide the deep clean thing and make people pay HIM ? Or is it someone completely different ?

emsyj Thu 04-Feb-10 17:25:33

Don't know, cos I'm not a dentist (altho my brother is, can I claim knowledge by proxy??? Didn't think so...)

I will say though that NHS dentists are heavily oversubscribed in most areas and the few that are left work like dogs for a pittance. My brother is one of them. Are you sure this treatment is something that a dentist and not a hygeinist would usually provide? NHS hygeinists do exist in theory, but perhaps he can't refer you to one because there aren't any in your area. I know my brother cannot retain a hygeinist at the NHS surgery he works at because the pay is so poor, and they can earn so much more working privately (as is the case for dentists - but my bro is a bit of a lentil-weaver and 'believes in the cause' hence he does mostly, though not exclusively, NHS work).

In conclusion.... YANBU to think that NHS dentistry should be better. But YABU to think that the dentist is exploiting you and doesn't have a pretty crap time dealing with the NHS to get crummy payments for the treatments that he does offer. I consider myself extremely fortunate to be able to get private dental cover for myself and DH under a corporate policy at work. NHS and private treatment is not the same and I would take private every time.

Check whether a deep clean is a treatment that a dentist would normally do. Perhaps one of the dentists on here will know more.

southeastastra Thu 04-Feb-10 17:26:38

how much for? i see hygenist at nhs at it cost £40 - is intense though not just a 'clean'

lilylu22 Thu 04-Feb-10 17:35:52

An NHS dentist should provide any service that is 'clinically necessary'. That is, anything other than cosmetic services. A deep clean is what is needed to solve the problem, so that is what should be offered IMO.

You shouldn't have to go elsewhere for treatment you NEED and have to pay privately for it....

I do sympathize that NHS dentists may not be paid well by the NHS, however, I don't think they are forced to take on NHS patients. That is their choice.

CaptainUnderpants Thu 04-Feb-10 17:36:33

I have to pay for a hygenist on NHS as well , £50 last time - didn't know that they did them 'free' even though a less thorough clean.

lilylu22 Thu 04-Feb-10 17:37:29

No Sassy, he told DP he should go to the hygienist and pay for a deep clean.

Interestingly enough I get the impression he employs the hygienist - so will make money out of it he wouldn't make on an NHS patient.

Sassybeast Thu 04-Feb-10 17:37:46

So he's had the standard NHS clean and that hasn't worked ?

lilylu22 Thu 04-Feb-10 17:38:41

captain If you pay 50 quid for the hygienist I don't think it's on the NHS - I think you're paying privately..

emsyj Thu 04-Feb-10 17:39:08

Yes, but if you went to your GP to ask for a minor surgical procedure that was clinically necessary and there was no suitably qualified NHS surgeon to refer you to (for whatever reason), would you object if he didn't lay you out on the desk in his office and do the job himself? I'm just trying to say that the treatment in question might not be something that falls within a dentist's remit is all. It might be a hygeinist's job, whether clinically necessary or not. I have no idea, you'd need a dentist to tell you. Any dentists in the house???

lilylu22 Thu 04-Feb-10 17:39:23

The dentist told him to SOLVE the problem he would need more than the standard NHS one he was willing to provide.. IE more time consuming..

lilylu22 Thu 04-Feb-10 17:41:00

The point is I think though - he IS trained to do the treatment, he is just choosing to refer to a private hygienist.

thrifty Thu 04-Feb-10 17:41:07

i sympathise. i suffer from gum disease,and treatment for it is not available on the nhs. wierd eh? if any other of the bones in your body were infected and eroding you'd get treatment through your doctor, but not if its related to your teeth. personally i think its terrible. i was told i needed to see a gum specialist (periodontist) i called the nearest one to me, 25miles away and got told it would be over £150 just for a consultation. the nhs wont provide treatment, but will pull your teeth out and provide you with false ones instead! go figure.

what helped mine was a colgate 360 deep clean brush and a waterpik, you can use mouthwash in the waterpik (about 40quid from boots) and this has slowed it down. get some hydrogen peroxide from the pharmacy counter (use as per instructions for mouthwash) loads cheaper than bought mouthwashes and will help kill off the infection.

emsyj Thu 04-Feb-10 17:45:48

There are limits though on what treatment you can get on the NHS. If he's had the treatment that the NHS are willing to provide, i.e. one standard clean, and it isn't enough, then he might not be entitled to any further treatment for the problem on the NHS. I know when I needed a root canal on a back tooth ages ago the dentist (NHS) said he couldn't do root canal on the NHS on a back tooth and would have to have it out or go private.

thrifty is quite right that the NHS are generally happier to pull all your teeth out and provide you with a chattering set rather than treat problems. That was my experience anyway, and my reason for never ever having NHS treatment again.

lilylu22 Thu 04-Feb-10 17:54:19

From what I understand the NHS is obliged to provide ONE solution. If that solution is not to your liking (extracting teeth) then you may choose to go privately...

But he is NOT offering a solution. It's frustrating because the NHS direct people as well as the primary care trust agree that he isn't doing what he is obligated to do - but there is just such a limited procedure to deal with it.

emsyj Thu 04-Feb-10 17:59:01

Well I guess your DP could elect to (as my gran used to say), have the whole lot taken out and a gas stove put in???


Sassybeast Thu 04-Feb-10 18:04:49

But your OP says that the dentist offered a standard clean ? so has hehad the standard clean which was offered ?

'still confused'

lilylu22 Thu 04-Feb-10 18:10:49

Yes, but said it would not be enough to resolve the problem.

MrsC2010 Thu 04-Feb-10 18:13:53

I can't find an NHS dentist round here for love nor money! (That doesn't help the OP I know!)

Sassybeast Thu 04-Feb-10 18:18:05

Ok - is it worth having the treatment that he offers though, just in case it does do the trick ?

lilylu22 Thu 04-Feb-10 18:22:02

Well yes that's what we'll do then get booked into see another NHS dentist.

IF the second finds he needs further treatment - I've been told the first will be disciplined by NHS and primary care trust for not providing the treatment he was obliged to provide.

Just a pain having the fight for what should be provided in the first place.

lilylu22 Thu 04-Feb-10 18:23:26

BTW - the second doesn't even employ a hygienist, just does the work and doesn't try to make the extra money angry

ImSoNotTelling Thu 04-Feb-10 18:57:32

YANBU in that NHS dentistry is up the spout.

When I was pg I decided to have a go with NHS treatment, and joined DHs dental place. I have been private since my dentist stopped offering NHS treatment about 5 years ago.

I went along and the dentist had a perfunctory look in my mouth, literally 30 secs, declared all fine and then said I needed to see the hygeinist 3 times a year at about £40 a pop.

Given that my private dentist has a really good look at my teeth, cleans them thoroughly and polishes them for about £40 a time as well I decided to stick with him.

It didn't add up that I seemed to get a better service for the same/less money in the private sector.

ImSoNotTelling Thu 04-Feb-10 18:58:14

I'd take the ordinary clean if I were you and take it from there.

lilylu22 Thu 04-Feb-10 19:46:25

MMM will do - ironically BBC1 are doing a 'have your say' into NHS health on tomorrow night's 6 o'clock news. I might send an email to vent my frustration

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