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AIBU?

to be called racist

159 replies

UpsyOne · 26/12/2009 20:52

in a nutshell

I am white with white children, friend of several years is black with black children.

I was looking after friends DS who is under 5 at her house. Her elderly mother lives with her as she is poorly and not well enough to look after children - she was there with me.

Her DS was attention seeking in a cute way, kept pretending to fall over and bump his head to get me to fuss him. When he did it I would call him a little monkey, make monkey noises and encourage him to make monkey noises back to me.

In hindsight I do realise that racists will call black people monkeys as an insult.

But I believe in evolution and therefore believe that we all descend from monkeys. Not only that, I do the whole "you little monkey" thing with my own children.

My friend has been really off with me since as I apparently upset her mum (wasnt aware of it at the time) and her mum actually called me a racist!!

Am I being unreasonable to think the whole thing is just ridiculous or was I somehow out of order?

OP posts:

Report

monkeyfacegrace · 26/12/2009 20:54

How pathetic, my daughter is a cheeky monkey too, has clothes that say cheeky monkey and even monkey masks. Its a bloody child thing!

StealthPolarBear · 26/12/2009 20:54

Well not ridiculous IMO as it was probably racist to her, but you didn't intend it in a racist way - I do the same with my DS.
Maybe a huge apology for any offence and an explanation that you apply it to all children?

ineedalifelaundry · 26/12/2009 20:55

Yanbu if you do this with your own children. I call my dd a little monkey too. The elderly mother has got the wrong end of the stick. Surely your friend realises this???

InMyLittleHead · 26/12/2009 20:55

YANBU - little monkey is a normal endearment for a child

Lifeinagoldfishbowl · 26/12/2009 20:55

YANBU - I would also call him a cheeky monkey without thinking out the connotations.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 26/12/2009 20:59

Ridiculous! You shouldn't have to explain why it wasn't racist, but for the sake of harmony, could you say something along the lines that you call your own DCs 'monkeys' and while you are sorry she was offended, it wasn't racist.

MitchyInge · 26/12/2009 21:00

it was probably the monkey noises rather than the expression 'cheeky monkey' that she took exception to?

StealthPolarBear · 26/12/2009 21:08

Bear in mind that she might have been subject to 'monkey' racist abuse, or seen her children suffer it. My friend in the late 80s/early 90s was called a monkey at school

Ronaldinhio · 26/12/2009 21:11

all monkeys in my house too...
yanbu but can't always know what other people find acceptable

also grandmothers are often mental

UpsyOne · 26/12/2009 21:15

Good points, I guess I should have a simple conversation with her and her mum. But since then its been hard to even have a proper telephone conversation with her as I said she is being very off with me.

I suppose I do find it difficult to not think her mum was over reacting as at the time it never entered my head. With my own chidren I call them a little monkey and them ask them what noise does a monkey make an we all make monkey noises. My children think its funny and DS's son thought it was funny. It never entered my head that her mum might be offended and think I was being racist.

I'm struggling with the concept that my friend would think I was a racist. As I said I have been friends with her for years and I find it offensive that she thinks I would go into her home and racially abuse her son in front of her sick, eldely mother. The whole thing just seems like some weird nightmare to be honest.

OP posts:

StealthPolarBear · 26/12/2009 21:18

Yes I would ahve hoped that your friend would know you better than that!!

chegirlwithbellson · 26/12/2009 21:19

My children are mixed race and I do refer to them as little monkies and monkey trousers etc.

I dont think the term is inherently racist but I have had my DS refered to as a Fucking little Monkey and that was! It was absolutly shocking to me, he was only about 4.

It is probably likely that GM is sensitive about this term as it has been used in a derogatory way against her in the past. She is naturally protective with her DGC.

For this reason I wouldnt use it with families I didnt know. It could very easily cause offence if they were unsure of my intentions.

BetsyBoop · 26/12/2009 21:28

we have too cheeky monkeys in this house too, it would never occur to me that anyone would think it an offensive term when used as a term of endearment to small children.

In your shoes I would probably write a letter to your friend (as she's being funny on the phone) and explain no offence intended, sorry if any was taken etc

nothingofthesort · 26/12/2009 21:31

Has the mother been in this country long? In some cultures monkey is a pretty strong insult, not a cutesy name that they use on kids!

Brunettelady · 26/12/2009 22:30

My DS calls himself a cheeky monkey, as do we. I suppose I can see where the GM is coming from, but your friend should know you better than that really. If she won't talk to you, I agree with writing a letter.

It is a shame that we cannot use innocent terms without someone taking it the wrong way. I suppose as the GM is a lot older, she has probably come across it in a derogatory way. As for the monkey noises, I teach my son all sorts of animal noises. It is no different to an elephant noise or a lion fgs.

Rindercella · 26/12/2009 22:38

I can sort of understand where the GM is coming from. My DD is mixed race and if I overheard someone calling her a monkey coupled with making monkey noises at her I may well be a bit BUT, that would largely depend on who was calling her monkey.

I would hope that your friend knows you well enough to know that there was no malice in your words. It is a real shame that such things have been hijacked by idiots, which means that now when people say things innocently offence can be caused.

Goblinchild · 26/12/2009 22:42

I don't think you are a racist, but if you want to mend the friendship you may need to understand that calling black children 'monkey''jungle bunny' and telling them to get back to the trees, making chimp noises and throwing bananas were all fairly common recognised insults in the '70s and '80s.
So their reaction isn't ridiculous, but the fact that they are being irrational about it should let you see how emotive the subject is for them, and why their 'gut reaction' appears OTT to you.
In the same way that individuals who have been victims in the past sometimes seem to overreact to something you barely notice.
Writing is a good way of explaining in a non-emotional, more distanced context.

ADingDongDandyChristmasLioness · 26/12/2009 22:48

I call my DD (4, white) a cheeky monkey. But I would never make monkey noises at a black child in front of an elderly black person. It's just being considerate - understanding that 'monkey' may well have negative connotations from someone of an older generation.

I think you were a bit tactless, tbh.

sparkle12mar08 · 26/12/2009 22:48

Honestly? I'm surprised that you thought it acceptable to use to black children, and am shocked that you then went on to make monkey noises as well. I use it with my own children but am very aware that it is a term and means of racist abuse in certain circumstances and would never dream of using to children other than my own, and most especially I would never, ever make monkey noises to a black person, child or adult.

So yes, I do think the GM was reasonable to think you might be racist. Sorry.

monkeyfacegrace · 26/12/2009 22:53

So we single out innocent black children? My kids love jumping around being all animals from the jungle. Id be appaulled if we had to leave out a monkey just because some sad adults used to use it as a racist term. It wouldnt even cross my mind, and surely it shouldnt?

monkeyfacegrace · 26/12/2009 22:55

Shit just realised my username, maybe I should change it

Goblinchild · 26/12/2009 23:00

The OP seems to want to resolve the problem, so she either explains, listens and works things out with her friend, or the relationship comes to an end and she gets labelled racist by the grandmother and possibly ignorant by her friend.
It's her choice, but I think an apology for unintentional offense without getting defensive is the way to go.

fairycake123 · 26/12/2009 23:02

I don't think you're a racist but I can see why your friend's mum was offended and why your friend is hacked off.

As many other posters have poined out, "monkey" and "ape" are commonly used as terms of abuse against black people, and that is no great secret. Obviously that's not how you were using them, but honestly, I think you should cut the GM some slack. She's old, she's unwell, and she's of a generation that was frequently subjected to horrible verbal abuse. It may look like hypersensitivity to you but I would bet that she felt genuinely upset and uncomfortable.

For what it's worth, I used to run a play group (this was years ago) and all of the families were white, apart from one which was mixed race. As soon as the mixed-race kids joined the group, I stopped using "little monkey" as a term of endearment because I knew of the potential for offence - even though both the parents were absolutely lovely and very laid back. I don't think it does any harm to be sensitive to these things.

AKMD · 26/12/2009 23:09

My husband is mixed race and I called him a cheeky monkey... once. It never occurred to me that he would take offence, after all, I am married to him so am rather unlikely to hate him for having a different colour skin to me but he was a bit funny about it. Just as it would never have occurred to me to use 'cheeky monkey' as a racist insult, it would never have occurred to him to use it in a joking/endearing way. So YANBU, just a misunderstanding, but that will obviously need to be explained to patch this up (good luck!).

Awassailinglookingforanswers · 26/12/2009 23:11

I can understand why your friend was upset.

BUT - I have to confess until I read this thread it wouldn't have crossed my mind that it could be seen as racist my (mixed race) children are little monkey's, as are my niece's and nephew (black) (to me, 'd'H and his sisters)

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