Good luck with sorting out your feelings. I hope he turns out to be the Dad your DD needs and does not hurt you or her in any way whilst trying to get it right.

I think you do have to separate your feelings and experiences with your ex from his role as a father. In a simple world someone who is a crap partner is a crap father it does not always work like that.

My ex was emotionally and physically abusive, we were a toxic combination and I was not completely blameless in the direction our relationship took. I do not recieve child support, my choice as I prefer him to support his other child who needs it amongst other reasons.

However he is an excellent father, it took a while to get it right and there have been times when I wanted to stop access, as for the first few years his simple presence caused me real pain, fear and anguish. We have now worked it out and as a family we parent together and dd is very happy.

At the moment he only sees her for an hour or so at a time, the point where he'll push for overnight stays is a long way off, esp as he knows she isnt a good sleeper

I meet him in cafes and parks at the moment, and am working on having company when I do this, so he cant start any of his nonsense.

If you do go down the "killing with kindness" route, do shield your DD from it though.

If you're setting up regular contact you're not expecting him to keep up with, you're expecting him to start letting your DD down. That will be devastating for her. The only way you'll be able to make this work is if you don't tell her you're expecting him in the first place. And when he turns up, just make sure you've discreetly got the bag ready.

He'll only 'win' in the sense that his contact will be supervised in a contact centre!!!!

He won't like that......but he will need to prove himself there in order for it to progress

I think it's different if he's been violent, yes.

Unfortunately the courts don't take that view and they very often order that children be handed over to men with a record of violence. The OP needs to make an assessment of how likely it is that this man will have the energy to go to court (because if he does, because of the retrograde attitudes of courts, chances are he'll win atm) and whether it's better to try and pre-empt that.

You're right there, SGB. Sorry.

I would work with legalities. If you are legally forced to make her see him then you need to go along with that.

Still, violent abusive men are very often violent and abusive to their own children. Bizarrely enough a lot of people don't seem to make that connection and imagine that somehow the relationship could be fine. It's not that likely.

"he wont be around DD long enough to do any serious harm"

You can't take this risk if you can possibly avoid it.

Look I am sorry to hijack the thread slightly, but can people please not imply that handfasting ceremonies are only undergone by abusive child-neglecting knobbers? To lots of people they are valid meanignful ceremonies of commitment, and such people honour and validate the ceremonies by, er, behaving honourably to their partners and children.

Moving not an option, but i do go away a lot. X-posted Ninky, so glad you have a good DH now.

He has shoved me while holding DD, he has threatened me in her presence, he reacts badly to any sort of ultimatum or threat.

I really dont want to project my own feelings, which is why its been so good to vent on here and get advice.

Detachment is definitely the way to go, and killing him with kindness is not a bad idea:

"you are better off killing him with kindness and offering a regular contact schedule, stressing that it's very important that he sticks to the days and times as consistency and predictability is so important for children at this age. If he's a bog-standard deadbeat, he will immediately lose interest. If he doesn't, who knows, maybe he will get into a routine and provide some sort of positive relationship with your DC."

What Kimi says is how I feel, but if I can just hang on long enough for him to get bored or me to distance myself emotionally, all will be fine as he wont be around DD long enough to do any serious harm - i hope.

Is moving an option at all? Again, I was very lucky in that ex-DH moved back in with his Mummy nearly 200 miles away and despite having all his utilities, food, toiletries, cleaning (ha!) stuff bought, his JSA was his own to spend. Rather like pocket money I suppose. I can't think why the DWP don't distinguish between people who have to live on it and people who don't.

Anyway, the £40 or so petrol money necessary to come and see DD even once a year was a huge factor in him not bothering. Like Mr Hand-fast Man he was always big on the verbals but God forbid he might have to sacrifice anything

Anyway, good luck to you OP and your gorgeous DD. It'll work out eventually. If it can happen for me, (I have a lovely DH now. My DD has the best Daddy in the world!), it can certainly happen for someone as lovely as you if you want it

I have seen your other posts and TBH I think your DD will grow up a lot happier with this man out of her and your life.

I would refuse him contact, he hardly sounds like the sort to drag it through the courts in a bit to keep contact with his child, he will have replaced her by this time next year by what you have said, I reallt think you both deserve so much better.

LOL at the child's right to have a meaningful relationship with her father.

What a pity her father doesn't recognise that right.

You can't stop him seeing her, you are better off killing him with kindness and offering a regular contact schedule, stressing that it's very important that he sticks to the days and times as consistency and predictability is so important for children at this age. If he's a bog-standard deadbeat, he will immediately lose interest. If he doesn't, who knows, maybe he will get into a routine and provide some sort of positive relationship with your DC.

It's terribly convenient for non-resident parents who never pay a penny in maintenance, that contact and maintenance are kept separate, but there you go. I would advise you very strongly not to get into rows with him about it - men who are determined to pay generally don't, and all that will happen is that you will get extremely wound up to no purpose. Also, it will upset your DD, she doesn't need to know at this stage of her life that her dad doesn't care enough about her to pay maintenance. The way he treats her throughout her childhood, will eventually be evaluated by her when she's old enough to make an adult assessment of his worth as a father. Don't muddy the waters by bringing your own feelings into it - try and detach.

You say he was abusive to you, do you mean physically. Do you think he would be absuive (in any form) to you in front of DD.

If he is then I would think whether you give access.

If not I would do what Ninkynork did and see what happens.

Sadly this is something I've had experience of and I'm not to proud of how I acted. I had a GF with a daughter and, to keep things short here, I'll just say I wanted the daugher to stay away from her Dad.

Now, years later, I felt it was the wrong thing to do and should have reacted in a different way.

I think my point is - from my experience - is that you're in danger of projecting your own feelings onto your daughter's future with her Dad. And, as much as you may not want him to have anything to do with you or her right now - and he's showing himself to be a tosser right now - he may not be a tosser in future when he stops being manipulative and conniving.

You need help in determining what is best for your daughter as you may not be being objective enough right now.

I wish you luck.

But you cannot withhold access unless he pays, they are totally seperate issues.

By GoodRiddance on Sat 04-Jul-09 10:38:35

"...Do I put my feelings aside and keep a polite mask so DD can still grow up knowing her dad, or am I right to try and get him out of our lives?"

yup, you should try and put your own feelings aside, and put the child's best interests first - which are primarily the right to have a meaningful relationship with her father.

Yes, he does have responsibilities too and he should fulfill HIS responsibilities too by providing contact and care for his child. He will of course be liable for child maintenance too so by all means pursue that - however, remember that contact and monies are totally separate.

He must pay - don't let him get away with this.

Even if it is only a few quid, why should he not support his own child?

If he's on benefits he will only have to pay a fiver a week

Ha, he can hardly be arsed coming across town. I think I will try asking for money - will post here and let you know how I get on.

So, move away, demand money and make him do all the arranging - you probably won't see him for dust!

As somebody who's mother (and his mother, my nan) forced her ex DH to see his children and all the emotional crap that went with it, I can confirm not fun for the child at all, I wouldn't blame you if you moved 400 miles away and didn't stop him seeing her but would he travel that far ? Ninkynork seems to have the right idea.

ah, ninkynork seems to have had the luck there - see if that works for you too, GR?
Plus the "you want to see her, you pay towards her care" thing. You might get lucky.

Baskinseals, you know, the idea of giving him enough rope to hang himself is appealling! He is a nasty, vengeful person and wouldn't think twice about getting his own back on me via DD. And he'd wait to do it too. Not physical violence but he knows how to wound in other ways.

I think I am just going to have to put a face on it for now.

My ex hasn't bothered about DD since we split up when she was a baby. A few years ago he seemed keen on doing a bit of selective parenting. I suggested he sort out a contact centre and make the arrangements and luckily this was too much hassle for him. Job done, I've been reasonable and DD hasn't been messed about.

I think for your conscience's sake you have to initially give him the chance to see her. If he starts stuffing things up, I think you would be well within your rights to put a stop to it. I do feel for you; I have a 7yo DD who has never met her biological father and already dread the day she wants to meet him. You've done the best thing by getting out of that relationship, but you're probably still hurt, though ex partners can be utter fuckwitwankstains, and you can't believe you spent more than 5 minutes in their company, let alone having their child, you have to put your DD's feelings first, even though every mention of his name makes you feeling like running into the garden and stabbing yourself, for being such a TWAT. Sorry, don't want to project my feelings onto you!

Also this is all very new and raw for you and things will settle down. Give him enough rope and he'll hang himself anyway. Save you the job, IFYSWIM.

I think SGB's suggestion of a contact centre or similar is a good one but don't know how they work, whether you'd be able to set it up through there without a history of violence. Might be worth looking into?

I also think you should insist on maintenance if he wants to be part of her life. Give nothing, get nothing.

Good luck

Ok, you've answered my question, he should be a part of DD's life, for now anyway. Thank you.

Cyteen, thats my concern, the potential for emotional abuse.
I am not "detached" from him emotionally yet, though i am getting there. Perhaps when i am it will be easier.

you are right cyteen, but sadly so is SGB in that unless she is at immediate risk of harm (and unfortunately future psychological/emotional damage aren't going to cut it at this moment), then he has a right to see her.

When she's older, old enough to make her own decisions about whether or not to continue contact, then the OP can keep her away from him (one would hope, anyway, although there was another thread recently about someone whose child didn't want to see their Dad and did they have to? Can't remember the ins and outs of it)

Solid, his behaviour has proved that he is a "trophy dad" and cant really be arsed, but wants to look like he cares to the outside world.
DD is not at physical risk from him.
I thought about saying that if he wants to be part of her life he should contribute financially. He wont like that at all and may decide that its not worth the bother. Or he may agree but he is on benefits and doesnt pay towards his other DCs from earlier marriage, and is always moaning about how skint he is.

I think there's more to risk than just physical abuse though, isn't there? If he's going to be the sort of father whose main contribution to his daughter's upbringing is uncertainty, anxiety, disappointment and heartache, it's worth considering whether she will benefit from that.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong to stop him seeing her, obviously we can't decide that (although I do know who you are and if I had the chance I would cheerfully pierce his testicles with a gardening fork, he is vile). But having dealt with a seriously toxic relative in my own family and knowing the harm he wrought among us all, I'd say think very carefully about what he has to offer your DD.

If his name is on the birth cert and he is her partner then I am afraid you can't just 'get him out of your lives'. He and DD are legally entitled to contact with one another (unless he forfeits that right by being a danger to her).
You mention that he is abusive and controlling - is he violent? If so contact can be restricted to a contact centre and supervised by someone else.
(I don;t know your back story I am afraid). DO you think, though, that he actually wants to see DD? Or is he the sort who is going to make all sorts of unreasonable demands and threats such as suing for custody of DD - purely to harass you?

kind of depends on whether you think she is at risk from him - i.e. if he is likely to hit her. If you think there is any danger to her at all, then I would make damn sure he doesn't get to see her - but if not, and he does want to see her, then you really shouldn't stand in the way.

However, you don't need to see him yourself if you have any useful family/friends who could do the handover/meet up for you.

Also, as his name is on the birth certificate, you should be able to go after him for maintenance.

Can't you chase him for child support?

Hi. I know who you are and YANBU for not wanting him to darken your door ever again BUT unless he is an actual risk to your DD I think you have to do the former rather than the latter. He is her father after all is said and done and the only one she will have, utter cockhead though he may be.

Have namechanged for this.
Loads of you know my story. Ex left me for OW at the beginning of the year and recently "married" her in a pseudo ceremony. He was abusive, manipulative and controlling and I am better off out of it, though it hit me hard, I have concentrated on myself and DD and on getting on with my life.
I have managed to avoid seeing him for the past few weeks due to being away and it has been valuable thinking time.
I cant stand the thought of seeing him again and the thought of him being in our lives makes me feel sick. He is the sort of man who calls his DP "bitch" affectionately.

He will be in touch shortly to see her and I dont know what to say. In five weeks I've had two texts. No phone calls, no emails asking how DD is.
He pays no maintenance and never has.
I stupidly put his name on the birth certificate, before I realised he was the sort of man who thinks nothing of leaving his partner and baby and moving on to the next one.
Fully expecting to hear that OW is pregnant any time soon, its just what he does.

Do I put my feelings aside and keep a polite mask so DD can still grow up knowing her dad, or am I right to try and get him out of our lives?