Riven - Oh how I loved those books. Sweet Valley Twins, Sweet Valley High. How on earth did my mum let me read that crap?

'so over' makes me cringe slightly.
'totally' is now universal but that makes me cringe whatever country I hear it in.

Maybe it started with 'Sweet valley High' dd1 used to watch that drivel. Its makes High School Musical looks like serious opera

Some things of course just don't make sense outside of their original context. In the UK for example cars do not have licence plates but registration numbers. This is because in the States the plate is what you buy when you get your licence, so it is literally a licence plate. You renew it every year, in the same way in the UK we get the tax done (and you have to return them when you move out of state). In the UK however the plate belongs to the car, and stays with it for the lifetime of the car. The only exception to this are personalised number plates, but I think you still have to register them for the car.

Athene! And there you were thinking I didn't get irony.....

My DD won't have it that it's possum
she insists it's parsum (as they say in Ice Age 2) - and won't have it any other way

OK have now read the latest messages and realised the thread has moved on somewhat
<slinks off>

Haven't read the whole thread but High school musical has a lot to answer for.
My 7 year old DD came home from school and announced she is "so over" her after school gym club and last week her friend wasn't at school because she was "sick" (she had tonsillitis as opposed to actually throwing up).
I'm fed up of the whole Americanisms thing period!

Riven, it is all in the 'e' definitely - I had a NZ client and she phoned me to say she was going to be late once - she was in Tisco at the chickout. Dead giveaway.

A seperate tent? Do you mean the Hofbrauhaus tent?

If so it isn't really just for the Aussies, though they do tend to take over there.

I did make a point of avoiding that tent, not so much because of the Aussies, but because it's so wild there. You're likely to have your clothes ripped off there, and may never see them again. Certainly in the pig pen section.

The 'originated by Lauren Child' thing at the beginning of Charlie and Lola makes me grind my teeth.

Surely that's not a real word ? 'Originally by Lauren Child' or 'Written by Lauren Child' would make more sense.

I also lose tooth enamel over...
Actioned
Tasked
A heads-up

<goes for a quiet lie down>

"nationalist" not "nationist"...although I may have made up a new word there!

IMHO: To those people getting a little "hot under the collar" Theres nothing "racist" or "nationist" about this thread.

The same conversation takes place wherever there is a dominant culture that is seen to be "taking over" smaller culture.....US/Canadian....Aussie/Kiwi....US/Brit.....English Language/French Language...English/Welsh - the discussion is always the same, how do we preserve our cultural diversity whilst not impeeding the natural evolution of culture/language.

I for one as an expat in Canada have experienced many different sides to this one and personally think its a good conversation to have.

I think many of us do not want to be a part of a global "mono-culture" and that means being aware of when we are dropping out own traditions and language in favour of the dominant fashion.

I have to agree with Morloth. The fact they have a seperate tent for the antipodeans during Octoberfest says it all.
I to have had better receptions from people when I say I am Australian and not English. I have an accent that is somewhat RP English with a bit of Australian, Dutch and American thrown in.
Riven - I can't tell Canadians and Americans apart. Kiwis and Aussies much easier. They have wierd names for things like jandles, chilly bins and egg slices

Riven ...ask them to say "egg". A kiwi will pronounce it as "ig"

easy to tell canadians and americans apart. Kiwi's and Australians is harder.

After listening intently to supporting artistes over many episodes of The X-Files, I think I can now just about tell the difference between American and Canadian. The key is the way they say the "ou" vowel. With Canadians it's almost (but not quite) "oot". I believe Americans make fun of them for this.

No it isn't just you Morloth. I travelled to Oktoberfest with dozens of Aussies.Never again.

It was a joke, Obama. I wanted to wind you up.

hmmm riven, you sound like my mum....she feels like that, too...she always says, what is wrong with our german language (and I often would love to say: Where do I start ...just to wind her up)

I am also frequently mistaken for a Canuck. I explain how my hillbilly twang has faded, give an example of something sounding straight out of Hee-Haw, and laugh and smile People love to talk to me because of my accent, and i love the novelty of it.

The advantage to having lived in various countries over the last 11 years is that no-one can now tell where the hell I am from.

I agree with thumbwitch that people's response to you (particularly on the continent) seems to improve when they find out you are Australia as opposed to British. Which I think is bizarre because IMO us Aussie are a royal PITA when we are travelling. Or that could just be me .

I met an American in Australia when I was backpacking there years ago - but she was masquerading as a Canadian (had maple leaf flags etc. stuck all over her gear). She said she found she had a better reception as a Canadian than as an American - isn't that sad?

But then again, Brits get a better reception in some countries if they "agree" that they are actually Australian, not British - or if they are non-English Brits, then sticking to being Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish is better received than being British, and definitely better than being English

No, am American, but Canadians do tend to get irritated/offended if you ask them if they are American, whereas most Americans don't really care if you ask them if they are Canadian.

I can't tell the difference.

Are you Canadian?

Yes, am American, but get hugely wound up when people ask if I'm Canadian

Well, using "England" to mean "Britain" is an Englishism (in that some - but by no means all - English people use it).

If you really want to wind her up ask her if she is American?

I hugely offended a Canadian the other day by remarking that "can I get" wasn't considered proper usage in Britain... (I did concede that it was fine if you are actually from North America but nonetheless she was outraged ...)

I was recently at a town hall meeting in Scotland at a Canadian Oil company. The CEO was visiting and he thought he'd get chummy with the Schootish workers with some Scottish jokes. And he was talking about how he loved their "clotted cream" and "afternoon tea" and all the Scottish people cringed at the Englishisms.

I think the CEO did not do his homework.

<mind goes blank in attempts to answer Riven's question>

I used to teach this stuff! Will have a think.

Yes guvk, it is amn't, and I like it to, though I haven't adopted it. I have adopted "needs cut, needs washed" etc, which irritates my mother!

I like 'och weel' but if an English person said it you'd think they were a little odd.

Is that right, "amn't"? I'm doubting myself now.

I love "b'aint". I also love the Scottish "amn't".

you American then ILMD?

Me, I'm more of the touchy type.

what would be classed as an 'english-ism' by people in Scotland then? being nosey.

"about -ize spellings: didn't the Americans and Brits try to standardise spelling in early 20th c and intended to move both countries to -ize and dropping the u in colour et al... but Britain didn't follow through?"

Not to my knowledge. Attempts to create a British equivalent of l'academie francaise foundered in the 17th-18th centuries, and have never, afaik, been revived. Language planning is often doomed to fail, and it's perfectly possible to accept linguistic evolution as a given without always liking every element of change.

US English is the globally dominant language atm, and is bound to be the source of most loans into other Englishes (and other languages) - people will always be irked by the most dominant form of the time. Just as people in Scotland can get irked by "Englishisms", or people in the North of England by "Londonisms".

Natural, bain't it?

"I have found that Americans get super touchy if anyone ever says anything about anything American."

except me - i'm more than likely to agree with you than anything else...

Regal Kings

Actually, I've just looked back at the first third or so of the thread (then ran out of time) and I didn't find a single piece of rudeness about Americans -- just irritation at the presence of Americanisms in the UK.

'But, there is a general acceptance on mumsnet that it is okay to criticise the Americans in a way that would never be considered acceptable for any other nation.'

No-one has critisised Americans. Don't be so touchy. It was a light hearted thread because I don't like the amount of American slang being used today and think its sounds a bit silly coming out of Brits mouths.
I'm hardly likely to critisise US citizens as a 'poeple' cos a, I'm surrounded by them and b, I don't know all 300 million of them.
But I will stop my kids saying 'my bad' or 'retard' or whatever.
I have found that Americans get super touchy if anyone ever says anything about anything American. Whereas few Brits would give a toss if Americans said 'you know, I hate the phrase jolly hockeysticks or loo and wish my children wouldn't use them'

I am so (inelegant Americanism, but I quite like it) not getting any work done.

I didn't know that Momino, and am tempted to spend the rest of the day finding out more.

The latest edition of Fowler's Modern English Usage says of the -ize, -ise issue in British English: 'The matter remains delicately balanced but unresolved. The primary rule is that all words of the type authorize/authorise, civilize, civilise, legalize, legalise may legitimately be spelt with either -ize or -ise throughout the English-speaking world except in America, where -ize is compulsory'.

'-ise' is much more common in Britain, I think, and '-ize' is often seen as a horrible Americanism (which is why I'm going on about it), but both should be acceptable. A very august and ancient British publishing house insists upon '-ize' (for now).

I agree with Athene and Annie in that I like the british and like living here. I've adapted my language and spelling to British English since moving to England 12 years ago. (I'd get funny looks otherwise.)

However, this thread seems to be provoking more negative comments than otherwise which is quite sad.

about -ize spellings: didn't the Americans and Brits try to standardise spelling in early 20th c and intended to move both countries to -ize and dropping the u in colour et al... but Britain didn't follow through?

Are there any French people out there who would like to comment on the Anglicization of the French language and the (doomed?) role of l'Academie Francaise? Then all of us English speakers can bond over our shared guilt / defensiveness.

I didn't say it was bad. I said it didn't matter. Couple of nukes and it could happen a hell of a lot faster than 100 years.

Athena, Brits on this thread have been called jealous, self-hating, rude, snobbish, hypocritical. Personally I haven't made any negative remarks about Americans.

Let me just restate my position that I like the British. I like living here. Have no plans to run home any time soon.

But, there is a general acceptance on mumsnet that it is okay to criticise the Americans in a way that would never be considered acceptable for any other nation.

And this is hy I think this thread is rude. I do not think the British are rude in general.

or even 100

One of my first cousins is in Afghanistan serving in the forces, he has now switched allegiances to become a Regal Kings smoker! What is this world coming to? What's wrong with Marlboro? I despair of him! He now plays poker with his British comrades with Marlboros as a wager in order to win himself more Regal Kings. He's asking me to post him Regal Kings, fgs.

Ok, so we can agree that globalisation is in some respects bad, and damaging to a range of cultures including Britain. Great. That was all I wanted to argue.

We'll agree to differ about whether the fact that it might reverse itself in 1000 years or so softens the blow.

'American English is vigorous and inventive, as is British English, which has been always been subject to outside influences (Normans, anyone?). Sharing a language with the last superpower has its pros and cons (I don't like 'Prime Minister Brown' much either), but our opinions about particular words or phrases are a matter of taste, not the imposition of 'incorrect' language on a beleaguered minority.'

I agree so much with this.

I still feel that the subtext to these sorts of conversations is that the British feel it is our bloody language and everyone else should do it our way or suffer our condescension and criticism.

I wonder if post 1066 people were criticised for adopting Norman vocabulary or having a 'fake' Norman accent.

But the globalisation will not last forever, nothing does. Shit happens. The last 1,000 years are nothing when viewed across the whole of human existence, in 100 years we might all be back to caves again.

Of course their is constant cultural flux, constant mutual influence of cultures upon one another, and through history that has been the source of wonderful things happening. It is just that now global markets and global media, etc, have become such a hugely homogenising force, so much variety is dying -- more than ever before. It so happens that the US is the most powerful nation while this is happening. In the future China might take its place; in the past it was Britain, before that Spain, France, Rome, etc.

None of my sadness at what is happening implies a criticism of Americans themselves -- it is the dynamics of a system within which for historical reasons they are dominant. I've not made any negative remark about Americans -- Brits on this thread however have been called jealous, self-hating, rude, snobbish.

Sorry, I said 'that's all' some time ago: Athene: it was Noah Webster wot (crass Britishism) did the standardizing.

X-posted with AtheneNoctua, to whom the 'yes' was directed.

Yes, if anyone had sat down and invented the English language, they'd have made a much more consistent job of it.

US spelling is often much more straightforward, as it was largely standardized in the C18th (when the 'u' was taken out of 'colour' and so on). And the '-ized' at the end of 'standardized' isn't an Americanism either.

So they will be globalised, then something will change and they will fragment again. It happens, no culture is worth "protecting" imo opinion because all cultures are made up of different ones.

Guvk, you are starting to sound like the BNP.

I have looked and can now confirm that what you say is true. Interestingly Webster's Dictionary (the US equivalent of Oxford) cites "licence" as a variant. Do you suppose this could be evidence of British English influencing American English????

My brother is in Iraq in the US Army. A couple of years ago he served along side the British and started saying things like "mate" and "bullocks" and it cracked me up because it sounded so stupid coming out with an midwestern/Chicago accent.

And it isn't just UK culture that needs protecting -- it is not'special' in that sense. All over the world there are cultures under threat from globalisation.

Morloth that is irrational. It would only make me hypocritical if I also said that the British empire was a good thing, or if, by some chronological impossibility I had myself gone out to the Raj and flogged Victorian morality or whatever.

Just because I share a national identity with a perpetrator, it doesn't mean I did the deed myself, or that I endorse it. You might as well say that an American, by virtue of their nationality, is hypocritical to criticise any form of colonial expansion because non-native Americans themselved moved west as a colonial power into native american territories.

Of course you can have a critical perspective on your own nation without being a hypocrite.

No way, the noun is licence? Sorry, annie! Must go brush up on pedant skills.

What is so special about British culture that it needed to be exported and now needs to be protected?

It doesn't but it does make you (and by you I mean British) hypocritical.

Morloth, of course the British empire was bad in that way too. Why on earth should that prevent us from acknowledging what is bad about American cultural dominance?

In British English, 'licence' is a noun and 'license' is a verb, for what it's worth (follows the same pattern as 'advice' and 'advise', without the change in pronunciation).

American English is vigorous and inventive, as is British English, which has been always been subject to outside influences (Normans, anyone?). Sharing a language with the last superpower has its pros and cons (I don't like 'Prime Minister Brown' much either), but our opinions about particular words or phrases are a matter of taste, not the imposition of 'incorrect' language on a beleaguered minority.

Thank you very much. That's all.

I like Britain and the British too. And even adapt my language to a large extent.
But this attitude still irks a little.

The argument that people on this thread are only complaining about British use of Americanisms and that Americanisms therefore have nothing to do with America (which frankly shout be called the US so as not to offend Mexicans, Canadians and those in Central and South America)is rediculous.

The whole idea that the British are upset about someone imposing their culture on them is nothing short of blatant hypocracy.

Genreally speaking I like the British. I like their culture, their language, the people, and so on. But this thread is bloody rude. (and "bloody" is one of my favourite Britishisms)

guvk oh please, the British Empire never hesitated to try to squash everyone into the same mould.

It is very trendy to dislike all things American, hence threads like this.

How can you say it's not a hostility to Americans? This isn't a thread about the culture clash that is taking over Britain (I do agree with that, for what it's worth). This thread is "Americanism" bashing and provoking a reaction, that sadly I have entered into. Which I am leaving now, and placing this on hide.

I wouldn't dream of doing this, that's all.

Crace, it isn't a hostility to America or a ridiculing of Americanisms. It isn't even a hostility to change. It is just a feeling of immense hurt and frustration that so many cultural evolutions are coming from one direction, from an economically and culturally far more powerful neighbour. It is possible to love and admire American society and yet get depressed by the global market forces that squash everything into the same mould.

Frankly this thread is just ridiculous - there is never a cause to "make fun" of any country for their language. You wouldn't find this sort of thing over there, you can be sure of that.

I think it is very much my way or the highway snobbery, as anniemac says.

I do, however, agree with your point that it seems very politically incorrect to be proud of being British -- even more so English. But I don't think American bashing is really going to help you any, seeing as Americans are one of the few countries who like and actively support Britain.

And of course, we wouldn't want to have an American bashing thread without mentioning Iraq. That is just unheard of.

Which identity is that MsSparkle? Norman? Roman? Viking? I think your royal family is part Greek? All societies change over time.

"I think it's probably more to do with the fact that Britain is losing it's identity slowly but surely."

maybe but the only thing you can rely on is this world is that change is fact of life, surely?

Thanks for that correction!

The only thing wrong with "licence plates" is the spelling. It should be license plates. Although maybe we should change it to licenze plates?

I don't think it's a "our way is the right way" case at all. I think it's probably more to do with the fact that Britain is losing it's identity slowly but surely.

It seems these days it's wrong to do anything "British" or speak in a typically "British" fashion.

"If you don't like Americanisms turn off the television"

Wow. That's giving a lot of ground isn't it?

A leetle bit like saying 'If you don't like Americans, stay out of Iraq.'

I hate these threads, and I hate that it bothers me. I've been here for 5 years and gladly embraced the language, and frankly I am fed up hearing how ridiculous it is the way I speak. Very irritating, and insulting. If you don't like "Americanism" turn off the bloody television.

YABU.

Language changes over time. Get a grip.

And what wrong with "licence plates"??

I have dropped a lot of my "Nzism" whilst in UK because English people get so offended (they are often Americanisms as well) but as soon as I get back home they come back again. Really, what's the problem? This kind of language obsession ("our way is the only right way") is just another form of snobbishness to me.

Houston is one of my favourite places. Wish I could live around the corner from The Breakfast Klub and wander out to Galveston for seafood.

I love the way the sky goes all the way to the edges in Texas.

I call it the khasi when I am feeling frivolous.

michigan lefts remind me of roundabouts, they follow similar rules...

The only roundabaout in the US that I can think of is in Houston and it is called a "roundabout".

I call it a john ;)

'"I'm going to the toilet" What? Did I need all that information. Just tell me you are going to the room and I work the rest out. But, really, I'm not interested in the details. '

Too right. That is so gross and I refuse to use it. 'Loo' is silly, too. Even worse are all these apparent class connotations associated with a friggin' commode. WTF?! Only in Britain. I still call it the ladies' or the bathroom and although DH uses 'toilet' (because tbh I couldn't care less about this whole class BS business), the girls don't call it that.

That's just nasty and unecessary.

'Loo' is just as bad.

Barf.

My dad calls it the lav but he was also in the military.

It annoys me that I can't sing the ABC song and make 'zed' rhyme with 'V'.

Apart from that, I think judicious use of an 'off' switch is good.

The thing about publishing houses is interesting. I think the flattening out of culture is a Bad Thing. But what I find more interesting is that places which use a strong, vibrant variety of English (I'm thinking particularly of India) seem to develop in their own way, though probably also influenced by American English and taking bits of that to add to their own introductions. They end up with something uniquely Indian. Perhaps we can't see that happening to British English because we are too close to it, or perhaps we don't do it to such an extent. I wonder. I would like to think that it's possible to take what you need/like and also add from other places/varieties to enrich our English. What I mean is that it shouldn't be about stemming the flow, but about embracing our own British variety of English (which is not to say that we should all talk like something out of 1940s newsreel). The differences are still greater than the neologisms, I imagine.

I feel sure, historically, that if we all tried really hard we could find some lovely Americanisms that have enriched our language. And that that would make us all feel much better and we can all be friends again.

Monkey - I don't like Prime Minister Brown either. It reminds me of Chef Ramsay from Kitchen Nightmares.

My brother lives in California and when his American girlfriend came over the the UK she pissed herself at the term 'roundabouts'. She thought it was such a funny, twee word. Thinking about it it does sound like something Floella Benjamin would have said on Playschool .

Apparently in America (US mumsnetters please confirm), even though there are barely any roundabouts in the country, they are called 'circles'. Whcich sounds funny to my ears but makes more sense than roundabouts

Another one, which crops up in the new A-ha song:

"We could clear us a yard..."

"We could make us a white picket fence"

Yuk.

Oh crap[per]!

Hmm...so if i have two bathrooms how do i differenciate? Only one has an actual bath in it, but the other has a shower...

Showerroom is a bit of a mouthful...and doesn't spell very well (sounds like some sort of fungus actually).

I'm in Scotland and in my town we have a Grammar school, a High School, an Academy and a Catholic High school.

Ah, but Godzilla it's only a restroom in public places. In the home it's a bathroom (even when there is no bath, when it becomes a "half-bathroom").

What about 'I feel your pain'...

I don't like the tendency to refer to Gordon Brown as 'Prime Minister Brown' that we get in the media these days (I saw it in a Guardian article this week and it made me shudder). It sounds obsequious and it's incorrect. He is the prime minister (as in that is his job title) but it is not his title. As prime minister he is a member of the house of commons, which means that he doesn't get a fancy title for it.

nooka - it's a rest room, trust me, when it's the only room in the house with a lock on it!

LOL...thing not thang

<well aware of the irony>

I have come to the conclusion that while i am ok with a lot of Americanisms, it really does get on my nerves for some reason when American spellings are used by British people.

I think it's because the whole colour/color favourite/favorite thang was done so half-hashedly (only some combinations of vowels in some words seem to have been revised), whereas if all the weird spellings were sorted out, by now surely Britain would have embraced the idea...

Wouldn't we?

But why Zee and not Zed though? Really? It's TRADITIONAL!

I think you're on to something, Morloth.

I think you will find that is "colorful" knockedgymnast

ducks and runs....

Personally, to me, their words seem much more 'colourful'. I mean who would want to go to an end of school disco, then they could go to a prom

Anyway, they must be doing something right if we are adopted their style of speech and they haven't adopted ANY of ours

You laugh Athene but when you have mastered eternal life you can afford to think long term!

at Morloth and Egyptian theory.

ThingOn I think it is the Egyptians we have to watch - ever notice how just about every important city has at least one obelisk? Is suspicious if you ask me, they are planning something...

I agree, nooka, in that it does seem that what is being complained about at a fundamental level is indeed the 'dominance of US culture.' I agree with procrastingparent as well, in that no one is forcing Brits to pay attention to American media.

ladies room?

Actually the word toilet is French in origin, and refers to the act of dressing (originally hair dressing) and the dressing table. So in some ways more similar to the phrase "powder room". Only Americans find it a distasteful word, although of course in England there are class issues associated with the word.

I have no problem with asking if I can use the bathroom (as opposed to the loo) in someone's house. I do find "washroom" a bit odd, and "rest room" even slightly bizarre (who in their right mind would wish to rest in a loo?).

English has always absorbed words and phrases from other languages. It is part of what makes it a very rich language (and also one very difficult to learn). I guess there is just something about the dominance of US culture that feels slightly threatening.

When I studied Dutch I was astonished to see how many of the phrases in everyday use in the Netherlands translated directly into US phrases. Remember New York was New Amsterdam first. Influences are for more complex than we often think.

I think we should complain about the empire-by-stealth approach of the Dutch. I mean, they run half the companies here now.

lol on toilet discussion, athene.
English IS the official language in California.
After all, there was never a British musical take-over when the Beatles/Rolling Stones/Led Zepelin/Bush became top bands in the USA. No no no... the cultural take-over has DEFINITELY been all one way, you poor wee little British ex-colonialist dears, you terribly imposed on things...

That's very interesting, Athene, thank you. I don't dislike Americans, I hope, at all - how can the ones I know represent the whole country??? - but I dislike British people using Americanisms and Americanised language - this is English English and it is still just about alive.

That's interesting Athene. Learn something new everyday!

Heh athene....it's my attempt at yorkshire-US relations....combining both fine cultures in one sentence.
toilet is irritating....the word "smells" of chlorinated water and the ghost of long-departed poo
although if memory serves, it originally meant the act of washing....have to check that, though.

I would like to respecfully point out that actually the United States does not have an official language. I am from Chicago and most government documents (including electionballots) come in English and Spanish. There are some areas where people want to install English as the official language. I don't think it will happen, though.

Expat makes a good point. In another generation, the official language will most likely be Spanish or at least along with English, but most Americans by then will be looking south as their cultural heritage rather than the UK.

Less shires, more barrio

Athene raises arm with palm facing forward to high five procrastinating

Minou, "I'm just off to..." is not a very American thing to say. And the British use of the wrod toilet is equally absurd. At least our word refers to the room and not the porcelain bowl.

"I'm going to the toilet" What? Did I need all that information. Just tell me you are going to the room and I work the rest out. But, really, I'm not interested in the details.

'No way. They speak Spanish' expat

I've been having to restrain myself from using the term "central air", instead of "air conditioning" over the past few days.
Now, I LOVE that phrase....it sounds so much niftier than "air conditioning"....what...you're conditioning the air to be cold and with a big stiff upper lip?

Expat, ilove, Yank and Athene - you go, girls.

No one is imposing American language and culture on the British - they are choosing to watch American television and film and listen to American music. Close the borders to cultural imports if you like (and impoverish your lives) but don't complain about American idiom in between watching episodes of The West Wing and The Wire (funny how there's sod all decent to watch on British television).

I do find the revulsion at these words and phrases quite odd - I've recently been lurking on an American forum (about TV) and enjoying the different expressions so much: 'that was all kinds of awesome', 'big fat word to that', 'you win at life'. There's a whole lot of clever commentary and banter that makes me want to be American. What's not to like?!

I never hear the term 'uni' until I moved to Britain.

I think chuffed means sexually aroused in Oz...or south Africa....or somewhere, but I remember having a convo with someone about this years ago. He was rather taken aback by someone saying "I'm dead chuffed". Can't remember where he was from, though.

chuffed always sounds naughty
or maybe thats just me...

Trillian, I do find playdate useful, and use it. I'm not sure what the issue is . . .

Am I alone in thinking that 'playdate' could be quite useful? Obviously the action is 'going over to X's house to play', but without playdate we don't have a noun.

BTW, a lot of what we're complaining about here isn't even American English. For example 'my bad.' Goodness, this is the ebonics debate all over again. These sassy sayings are only popular due to movies, excuse me, films, and tv, and the current media definition of hip. I don't even consider them Americanisms myself, they are some weird phenomena involving language developed through children's media.

It isn't bad guvk it isn't good either, it just is.

American culture will flow and change itself, America isn't one large homogeneous group and it would appear that their empire is on the wan in any case.

I went to a 'high school' too, in Cheshire.

Britishisms that make my skin crawl . . .
Mummy ^I'm not dead and wrapped in linen, thank you.^
Chuffed ^It's even painful to type.^
Mate
Bits and bobs
. . .

Progression implies movement to something better, though. All these various colloquialisms that come and go aren't better or worse. But when they tend to come from a single direction and replace the local alternatives with something more uniform, that is bad.

'It is extremely amusing to me that someone is complaining about "Americanisms" when in the US they speak English. Bizarre. '

No way! They speak Spanish.

My mama is always teasing my dad about that. He is first-generation American, but he speaks English as a second language.

She's tri-lingual herself, but she did speak English in the home. Well, sometimes.

Hehe...I love Americanisms.....but only in front of certain people, as it drives them nuts...I have a well-worn routine with a grumpy old computer nerd chum:
"I'm just off to the bathroom"
"Oh, are you having a bath?"
"No, a p**s"
"What, in the bath....."
and on....
Having said that, I remember being admonished in school (around age 11) for saying "zee" instead of "zed"....and I still say "zee".
I blame Sesame Street.

guvk I wasn't particularly trying to be helpful, I am in a rather argumentative mood.

Your erosion is my progression.

Riven you're right, I think - Americans go to college, not "uni", surely?

I do some voluntary web moderating stuff for a charity that is American. And oh do I get laughed at for my Britishness. So Athene I do think it works both ways. My American friends think "nappy" is hilarious. They giggled through Postman Pat as a programme for children and the suggestion that a lady with a persistent cough might need to see a respiratory physician (with one's best home counties accent, that one!).

"Have a nice day" grates a little with me especially when used by healthcare workers, um, no, I'm not having a nice day because I'm here! 'Kids' rather than children (didn't they used to be baby goats?) and 'c-section' and even worse 'VBAC' (the phrase is trial of scar, in this country). The RCOG has accepted fetus and specialty as the correct spellings.

Morloth, that isn't a v helpful post. I admire British culture and American culture, I'm sure most people on the thread wouldd say the same. I'm not remotely jealous of Americans. Why would objecting to the erosion of cultural difference imply that?

And yes, in America most people speak English, because many of the first Europeans to go there were English speakers. Then US English and UK English diverged, with consequent richness in both cultures.

And yes there was a British empire, with Britain making huge cultural, social and god-knows what else impositions on the rest of the world; and there were other empires before that did the same. In every case there was a threat to cultural diversity, and in every case that was equally a bad thing. (Though the global market now makes the threat to cultural diversity far far bigger than it ever was before.)

I thought uni was Australian. First heard it on 'Neighbours' (not that I used to watch that, oh no )

Athene I wouldn't take it too personally, I am not sure that the British actually like anyone very much (including the British!).

Personally I think most anti-Americanism stems from jealousy. There are things that the US needs to work on for sure.

But you know what? If I could live in a nice big Cape Cod with a pool and drive a massive SUV then I bloody well would and I think most people who complain about this sort of behaviour are just jealous that they can't have it as well.

It is extremely amusing to me that someone is complaining about "Americanisms" when in the US they speak English. Bizarre.

there their

I also watch Buffy, My name is Earl and do enjoy an afternoon of judgeyness with Jerry Springer
I did grow up thinking the US was Dallas though.
My sister's husband is American (they live in Pheonix) was suprised at how many American words we use when he visited. Mind you, he was expecting 'what' and 'tallly ho' having watched 'Brideshead Revisited'. Poor man.

Oh, and I don't know anyone in the US who says "uni". I thought that was a British word. My friends and I always referred to our respective Universities as "school" or "college".

Don't you think it's a tad rich for the British to complain that another nation has inflicted there language upon them?

The British Empire

I would never watch the Simpsons or South Park. Utter tosh which is not representative of my culture.

It's funny though -- some words in a West Country accent do sound American.

The UK/Great Britain may geographically be part of the EU, but from a cultural stance, there's more in common with the US.

Think though that people who complain about US TV shows should complain to the BBC/government about why more UK programs aren't being made rather than relying on imports. More Bollywood, less Hollywood!

at fixing dinner....

When I lived in England I found a lot of differences between how English people spoke English and how I (an Irish person) did. Of course Hiberno English owes a lot to a direct translation from Irish so our construction of sentences is slightly different. We also use different words for things e.g. we say "press" for cupboard and "hot press" for airing cupboard, "footpath' instead of pavement, "scallion" instead of spring onion (I was interested to learn that West Indians also use "scallion") There are many more examples. Some of this Hiberno English found it's way to America. To the poster who laments at the use of "Uni" instead of "University"...we have been using uni for as long as I can remember over here! Having said all that I agree generally with the dislike of the newer Americanisms like "My bad" which my teenage dd uses regularly!

'I don't think Riven had any sinister intentions, as she mentioned her DH was American I think? '

Nope, nothing sinister. DH is a dual national and the kids except dd hold US passports too and we even lived there.
Its the creeping Americanisation of our language that bothers me. I think cos children don't see British made stuff, its all US soaps, Simpsoms (which I love) South Park etc and they think its British because the language is English enough. Some days I think we are inundated with American culture. We'll be celebrating 4th July next!
I cant see it stopping though, given for some bizarre reason the Brits have antipathy towards other Europeans, forgetting that we are European and look to the US.
Out in the high Street toady (and this is west country Wiurzel land) I overheard a woman say 'I'm good' and her friend talk about her 'allergies' where that one word was with a US accent. Now that is bizarre!
My kids btw are bi-lingual. They would ask for a flashlight from an American friend then turn to me and say 'here's the torch'
But I forbid them from talking about 'fixing dinner' unless I'm allowed to say 'why, is it broken?'

Just had a quick skim through.

High school isn't American. I went to a high school and so did my Mum. Not in America just in Norfolk.

It sounds to me, Athene, as though you have had some frustrating conversations in the past which you are bringing to this debate.

But really, it has been said many times: we are not discussing American language/culture. We are discussing the British 'appropriation' of it, its meanings and effects.

"One thing that annoys me with the British fixation to hate all things American is that they find the tackiest things in Amercan and parade it like it's a typical example of American culture."

Athene - what British fixation to hate all things American? Do you really think that's what's being said here? Are you being anti-British? That's kind of rude, isn't it?

'Hissy-fit' though. I LIKE hissy-fit.

Athene, there are quite a few things from English slang/bad grammar that grate on me

But the title of the thread specifically mentions Americanisms.

I don't think Riven had any sinister intentions, as she mentioned her DH was American I think?

But Athene, surely the grumble is not that there is anything wrong with Americanisms -- not that they are trashy or inarticulate or anything else bad. It's just that they are over here. Clearly Brit slang and Brit pop culture isn't in any way whatsoever 'better' that US equivalents. It's just that they are ours, and it is good to preserve local colour.

That wasn't directed at you.

There has been talk on thread about the end of year party / prom.

Yes, I know, some schools include Junior and Senior years at the prom. And, of course, if you are jammy you can organise getting invited by a junior/senior when you are still a lowly freshman/sophomore

Thanks Athene. I know. We had prom for junior and senior year.

A Prom in the US is not just an end of the year dance/party. It is for your Senior Year in High School. SO it is something you get all decked out for once, not every year, when you are 17 or 18.

One of the problems with this thread is that people are comparing American slang to formal British English. For example "thru" is a short hand version of the American English word "through".

"I'm good" grates on my nerves. I think you mean "I'm well." or "I'm fine, thanks." My children have started saying this and they get it from my Canadian nanny.

One thing that annoys me with the British fixation to hate all things American is that they find the tackiest things in Amercan and parade it like it's a typical example of American culture.

I have never watch the horrid Springer guy, but I am very happyto find out he is actually Bbritish and not American.

Agree proms absolutely don't work in the UK. Don't know why. Perhaps because there isn't really a graduation ceremony?

'Gotten' was definitely English before it was American. It just fell out of popular usage over here.

"Gotten"? And don't get me started on "Can I get?" (as in "can I get a burger?"). Drives me insane!

Oh, do the Scots say gotten? Really? I once dated a Scottish bloke and he always said got. And he was in America at the time. How utterly rude of him not to adapt the local language.

Come to think of it, he had a bit of a bee in his bonnet about all things American so it seems that trait does not leave the British minds when they set foot in American.

noonki - we will fix it like new, new, new

I absolutely love the States and hate the fact that it's kind of ok to slag off Americans over here (one of my very good friends was regularly abused just for being American when she lived here).

BUT I hate the adoption of US traditions too. Of course have a party to celebrate the end of school - that always happened - but call it a leavers' ball or a final fling or whatever. Not a prom. It doesn't work here. It's like if America suddenly started celebrating Guy Fawkes night.

I don't think it's Americans' fault though. I think it's stupid British people who can't tell the difference between our customs and theirs.

I'm a super-fussy journo and I don't mind the language stuff so much, especially not in spoken English. Also I'm Scottish and lots of things that English people think are Americanisms are really common in Scotland like Santa, gotten, saying Zee-bra instead of Zeh-bra etc etc.

"my bad"!!!! Never heard that one thankfully.

There are plenty of high schools in Scotland and lots of people say "can I get" here, don't think that is necessarily and Americanism.

Playdate annoys me though

though to be fair, I don't think the Brontes went on many playdates

problem with americanisms is I am not educated enough to know when something is a real American invention and not just some oldfashioned British way of speech that happens to have survived over there after we got to lazy and sloppy to use it

nothing more irritating than to find a respectable Elizabethan (or even worse, Victorian!) author using some expression that we had all written off as an irritating American innovation

I find that more and more now that I'm re-reading the Victorians

I was just wondering if Eastenders even caught on in the US and we started exporting our slang and language. There would be US parents telling their kids off for using brit slang and Brit expressions

Also grown British women, in say their 30's/40's declaring they've been "hit on", I find a bit strange...

I've never, ever heard 'my bad' so i've either 1) been away too long or 2) getting old and this is a new phrase with american teens (?). also, isn't 'can I grab...', 'can i get...' instead of 'please may I have...' just a reflection on the way one was brought up to ask for things?

I'm not too grumpy about all this and actually find it amusing. About understanding british English, I did have to ask someone the other day to repeat 3 times what he said... but he was Geordie so do i get a break <pleading>?

When we got back we bought the UK versions of Harry Potter. No idea if they changed the films though.

I think it is changes to books like the Harry Potter book that irritates me the most. To change 'Philosopher' to 'Sorcerer' - what is the point. On reading the book you would surely get the gist and the title of any book can't be intended to be self-explanatory. Are they saying Americans will think it is something to do with Philosophy and therefore a bit highbrow? - seems to have backfired as a minority of Americans read 'Sorcerer' to be something to do with the occult.

As regards the 'pants' thing - I am neither northern nor old english and therefore as far as I am concerned this is purely an Americanism.

Christ I have never heard 'my bad', thankfully!

I still say flatmate but I have heard roommate or roomie in the UK now.

ThingOne: "My bad" means, "My mistake". As in: "There is no sugar in my tea!", "Sorry, my bad - I forgot".

This morning on the radio, I heard a member of the Welsh Assembley use the word "disbenefit". Is this a hideous Americanism when used in normal everyday speech or am I just an ignoramus wholly unaware of this word in the English language?

"Roommate" (not even "Room-mate") for flatmate or housemate really bothers me, too. You're not sharing a room! You're sharing a flat/house!

I don't understand "Pick up your room". Does it mean "Tidy your room"?

I like Proms. I don't think of it as an American thing, it is a good thing for kids to celebrate the end of school. And it's not that new either, my school had a end of school prom, and that was nearly 20 years ago. Mind you, ours was held in the school drama hall, and the dinner ladies did the catering (lol), all organised by the school committee. I agree that it is not the same thing at all to have a dinner dance at the local 4 star hotel, and all the attendant limo hire etc, but surely that is consumerism, not Americanism.

High School is also not purely American, one of the best (and most traditional) grammar schools in Gloucestershire is called High School for Girls.

I don't mind the additions to the language (all excepting babydaddy - urgh). Ones I don't like are business phrases such as Blue Sky thinking, thinking outside the box, head-up etc, but these are not necessary Americanisms, but the warblings of business twats.

I've not heard "my bad". What does it mean?

I like 'playdate' nice and succinct . I have realised that I call yr 7-9 pupils and yr 10-13 students. Pupils just seems a bit childish for the older age range. I had no idea it was an Americanism.
What is wrong with high school? I went to a high school! Primary, Middle and then High or Primary then Secondary, if there is no middle school!

I can't get my head round the saying "he is gonna be soooo pissed" which to me means very drunk, but apparently now means cross/annoyed?

well said HeadFairy. I'm sure Americans understand our language too and it is a bit disrespectful to them. (alhtough I did translate some of Harry Potter when living there)
Having said that I didn't really understand Buffy saying 'my bad' when I watch it the other day.
And i did chorlte at 'go pick up your room' cos of the mental image.

Well said guvk, you also see it in films where British actors, speaking in British accents, obviously playing British characters say things like trash can, vacation, trunk (for boot) etc etc. It's trampling on our language but we dumbly sit back and accept it because supposedly Americans don't understand the word dustbin. I think they're being very disrespectful to the English language and Americans at the same time.

Some of them are quite useful, and I'm guessing thats why they have become part of our language - because they meet a need for a word that we don't have..

There actually isn;t an equiviulent of Playdate - its either "going round to play" or if it invoilves Mummies, "Going for coffee". with Playdate, while it might be an Americanism, everyone knows what it means and what type of thing will happen.

I actually wish daycare was used more in the UK as a word because its a word that I need...I've had problems for years making the disctinction (esp to older relatives) between

- Nursery that kids go to for the day because parents are working or need a break

as opposed to

- Nursery that is attached to the school where children go for 2.5 hours a day to prepare them for school that works to school terms etc...

Daycare would be SUCH a helpful word to use to describe type one as opposed to type 2...

More of a spelling than Americanism, but... ASS... what's wrong with a good old fashioned ARSE?

An ass is a small horse like animal not dissimilar to a donkey or mule.

guvk - totally agree and beautifully put.

"Can i just grab a...."

and

"Can i get a..."

Not

"Please may i have a..."

like it should be!

Oh, onebat, onebat. <shakes head sadly>

" she was saying that American English was great in America, with the implication that English English is what we should be using here." Some people might like to use Scottish or Welsh of NI English, you cultural imperialist, you.

YANBU

Americanisms are irritation itself.

My personal pet hate is "my bad".

I think Americans think the British are cute because we are obviously different. Their exposure to British culture is relatively limited (comedy shows, occasional films, a few stock baddies, and some exported people) so we are an oddity to them. Whereas in the UK there is so much exposure we probably aren't really aware of a lot of it, and when we do notice it rankles.

I have been interested that whilst I have never found it difficult to understand an American, many American's I have met find it difficult to understand me (although I have an RP accent, so nothing too unusual). I think this is just exposure. My Canadian colleagues struggle at times too, but again I don't.

I would also guess that many of us here aren't that far off the "grumpy" age, and dislike change. Especially when it is such a flood of change. That's mostly TV/films/internet stuff, so last twenty years or so I'd guess.

Oh and I do know Americans who are pissed off at the increasing use of Spanish. I guess no one likes to be too accommodating

(Oh and I don't have any animus against American culture -- which is vibrant and fab in lots of ways -- or the false belief that Americans are doing all the imposing. It is just the really sad dynamics of global capitalism, obliterating local difference.)

I feel quite grumpy that Americans on this thread can feel hurt by British irritation at the flood of Americanisms. Yes, language evolves and that is good, but the flood of changes from one direction -- the market-driven marchfrom a much more powerful culture -- is something to be really, really sad about. It is the erosion of difference. It is happening on a vaster scale in other countries (I'm really nervous that if Iran does open out it will mean, in addition to the good aspects, one more territory for the hawking of a generic international culture whose tone is American).

But the smaller implications for UK culture are still bad enough. Here is one consequence. I work for a British publisher that has recently been bought up by an American one. Even before the merger, almost all of the books I worked on, whether by Brits or Canadians, or US authors, were edited to American styles and spellings. This is because research shows that Brits and Canadians are more used to and able to tolerate reading in a style of English that differs from their own domestic one. I fel a bit of a traitor to UK English because every day I am squeezing the writings of UK authors into alien styles.

Brits are very used to reading books, watching films, telly, etc from the US and are willing to put up with not 'getting' everything -- with there being nuances, turns of phrase, etc, which we can't quite follow because they are from a foreign culture. That is good, really good: it is good to feel a little at sea. But apparently the research shows that Americans are less able to do the same. And I imagine that has a much huger effect than just changing spellings etc -- the tone of British films, TV programmes, and even written fiction is I think distorted often when they are produced with a need to seel to the big markets of the USas well as the small market of the UK.

Nancy66 - I can unequivocally state that my DH (Australian) is a considerably bigger whinger than any English person I have ever met!

AS I have only read pgs 1,2 and 7, I might have missed "pantyhose" - my own particular loathing.

Much of the American culture is being absorbed by the Australian yoof as well - in some cases it becomes difficult to tell whether they are Australian or American, especially on the tv there! to say nothing of the number of drive thru [sic] fat food places.

Well said OBM

lol Merrylegs

NO-ONE (I don't think) is dissing American culture.

They are cross (or not, depending) about having that culture imposed upon us. Not the fault of individual Americans, that - but true nonetheless.

Our real influence on you (whoever mentioned the Magna Carta, bill of rights etc) was over at teh beginnning of the last century, and in any case was mainly due to what as how you were .. erm.. us then.

Your cultural influence, on the other hand, is absolutely current (though it is true that it might now be waning), and irresistible in both senses of the word.

I don't think anything on this thread reflects any animus towards Americans either individually or as a country in itself - or indeed any dislike of American vocab or phraseology itself. It is only the painful process of conquest influence which is being discussed here - we love Americans as much as you love us. Though you sound like you are beginning to love us a little less by the minute..

Competitive in a global marketplace? Over-rated

(And isn;t it only limitedly true of the States? ie. in IT development, and entertainment?) Don't know much about it, would be interested to hear more

The Aussies are right - we really are a bunch of whingeing poms.

I still agree with the OP though. Easily the most annoying is when speech is littered with 'like.'

"So I was like walking down this like road"

No - you were walking down a road.

Hi BOF! Was away for a bit, and third trimester has turned me into a compulsive napper. I try to put feet up to stop swelling, and instantly fall asleep. Thus less MN time!

I like Americans actually, well the ones I've met anyway

Athene did you say that we were being rude...?

I think I was talking about British people using American words and phrases in Britain, I don't recall saying anything rude about Americans or America. Or perhaps I missed something.

"The thing I (can't) figure work out is why the British spend so much time and money planning holidays in a country whose people they dislike."

Woah. Who said anything about disliking 'the people'?

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with Americanized spellings. Or American phrases. So what? Language is different everywhere. But I am irritated by British people saying "Can I get?" Or "I'm good," or "coffees to go" in the same way I am irritated by British people saying 'Ciao'. Or kissing each other on both cheeks FGS.

Why am I irritated? Don't know. It's not rational. But it's certainly unreasonable. Which is why I'm posting here.

My bad.

Athene that argument doesn't stack up. We "hate" the French too and have always spent plenty of time and money holidaying (or living) there - anyway, we don't dislike the Americans, but given that our economy, armed forces, and culture are now a rounding error on their US counterparts, we have to maintain our pathetic sense of self-worth somehow - in this instance, by sneering at all things American (and don't even get us started on Australians )

LOL. Jerry Springer was born in London to German Jewish parents fleeing Nazi persecution and lived there for the first five years of his life and is a dual-national.

Ever notice that that man is always working?

I left my High School about twenty five years ago. We celebrated its centenary when I was there.

I love the way that languages across the world influence each other, and I love the way that language changes as life changes. It's fascinating.

I don't like cheap and nasty slang, whether British or American. I think that's something to do with being middle aged.

Yup, I remember the American work ethic from the Jerry Springer show.
Now morphed nicely into Jeremy Kyle.

Huge generalisation there.

Please excuse my horrible typing.

Oh and the American work ethic. Better hope that never shows up on your ocean shores. You wouldn't want to be competitive in a global marketplace.

Actually, I do embrace British English. I like Britain and I like the British people. The thing I figure work out is why the British spend so much time and money planning holidays in a country whose people they dislike.

I obviously can' prove the non-existance of something.

The thing is Americans generally like the British. We love the way you talk and especially love your accent. And that's why you won't find a thread like this one on an American website. That and we don't love to complain. We are more of a doer kind of breed.

Anyway, the influx of Americans is not due to expat Americans so much as it is due to the tv telly. So, perhaps ypu should have a word with all those British viewers. Just who do they think they are watching American telly. The nerve!

< hello YanknCock! Haven't seen you for ages! >

<<waves back at ilovemydog>>

Nope, the little dual citizen makes his grand entrance in late August (or hopefully earlier!)

Cheers onebatmother that is what I meant

I watch American tv shows. I have american friends.

What I object to is the use of American words, phrases and pronounciations used in British made tv shows, particularly the news. And newspapers - If those words have perfectly fine EnglishEnglish versions

Tis the same with School proms too for me - A fine american custom - but not one I welcome in Britain

Really Merrylegs?
Like Jakers on Cbeebies, and all the US references/phrases so they can sell it over in the US.

I am soooo highbrow!

<<waves to Yank>>

An American Born Abroad Notification yet???

That's not what Yurt was saying, YC. She wasn't blaming Americans in Britain, she was saying that American English was great in America, with the implication that English English is what we should be using here.

"You would never see a conversation like this thread about Britishisms on an American website."

Really Athene? Do you have evidence for that? How do you know?

"FWIW the point is taht American language and culture is having a considerable impact on ours, to the point of, in some cases, strangulation."

I have to agree with that, onebat. I write books. In English. Back in the day (did you see what I did there? Oh, and there. ) they would have two editions for UK and US runs of the same book. They don't do that anymore. Too expensive. So, as an English writer I have to write for the Americans because (to quote the US publishers) 'otherwise they won't understand.'

So, for example, I can't use 'torch' (has to be flashlight); or 'worked out' (has to to be 'figured out') or 'mum', or 'colour' or..... I could go on. It really annoys me, actually. I figure (see!) all you Americans could perfectly understand a book with British words and phrases.

Why should I have to alter my language for you? Because you are the bigger nation? Cut the little guys some slack here. (ba da boom)

But it's not American in origin! And, btw, I don't like it either.

From the OED:

"in mod.F. the suffix has become -iser, alike in words from Greek, as baptiser, évangéliser, organiser, and those formed after them from L., as civiliser, cicatriser, humaniser. Hence, some have used the spelling -ise in Eng., as in French, for all these words, and some prefer -ise in words formed in French or Eng. from L. elements, retaining -ize for those of Gr. composition. But the suffix itself, whatever the element to which it is added, is in its origin the Gr. -, L. -izre; and, as the pronunciation is also with z, there is no reason why in English the special French spelling should be followed, in opposition to that which is at once etymological and phonetic. In this Dictionary the termination is uniformly written -ize."

'There hasn't been a 'How Stupid Are Americans' for at least a month'

Has it been a month already? Right on schedule then!

'If I lived in USA I would embrace and use American English'

Yurtgirl, you seem to be implying that it's the Americans living here that are responsible for an influx of Americanisms---there are hardly enough of us to do that. I find that the Americans here are bending over backwards to 'embrace and use' British English. It's the native UK population that brings in the Americanisms.

If everyone hates Americanisms that much, stop watching the TV shows/movies and then adopting the words/phrases! It's certainly not us expats forcing you.

Squeaver just because it is an accepted variation in British English doesn't mean it is not American in origin. I just don't like it. I am not claiming that to be a logically or morally defensible position, but a bit of 'find and replace' always makes me feel better

A footnote?

Last time I looked, the official language of the USA is English. Hardly a footnote.

For the most part, British people get irritated by really minor aspects of the language which is totally disproportionate to the impact British culture has had on the USA -- magna carta, Bill of Rights, rule of law, democracy, language.

We live in a global village. Cultures impact on each other, so get over it.

stealth - see my earlier post: '-ize' is not and Americanism

Oh, stealth, my mother's mother was French. Yes, they do disdain like no one's business.

we have high schools and pants (trousers) in manchester

but hate 'fix' (it's mend)
and anyone that says 'have a nice day'.

People get riled by it because American culture is all consuming.

Expat if it makes you feel better, this is the British behaving just like the French, and attempting to defend our version of our language in the face of inevitable change

<<goes back to the futile important task of removing all superflous 'z's from a proposal>>

"You would never see a conversation like this thread about Britishisms on an American website."

But that is the point, Athene. This thread is born of the vastly different impacts which our two cultures have on one another. We are essentially a footnote to yours, while yours looms vairy large in ours.

Our willingness to abandon our expressions for yours is significant and should be discussed. Silly to get hurt feelings I think.

Sparkybabe, I have a backyard though. It would be incredibly pretentious to call it a garden, which would be a lovely thing to have.

it's a handy language to learn, Leonie! lots of Spanish-speakers in the world.

why not go for it here?

it's an enjoyable language to study, IMO .

Can I just add that I went to Stonehill High School in the 1970's and dd goes to The Martin High School now.

We're in the East Midlands, and it's been like this at least the 1940's when my mum also went to a High School.

I don't much like "movies". We always go to the pictures.

There hasn't been a 'How Stupid Are Americans' for at least a month

Of course it's rude Athene.

Get it off your chest people.

AtheneNoctua - I think American words are great, in America

Not to be used here - There are thousands of perfectly good English words
A gradual drift towards the use of AmericanEnglish words over and above EnglishEnglish is really annoying to read and hear relentlessly used - here in the UK

If I lived in USA I would embrace and use AmericanEnglish

Expat: hablo un poquito de espanol tambien... leftovers from high school. Sometimes i wish i'd remained in the US - i'd make a damn fine interpreter, and have a job for life as well.

Actually, it is rude to come on here and post relentlessly on all the things you hate about Americanisms. Bloody rude. You would never see a conversation like this thread about Britishisms on an American website.

We've had the Halloween discussion before on here loads of times.

Yes - we have to take dd to Scotland every Hallowe'en so she can go guising not fecking trick or treating.

It's not their language or culture itself which is the subject of the OP, Athene. That would be rude.

The OP's point is taht American language and culture is having a considerable impact on ours, to the point of, in some cases, strangulation. This is because of their enormous entertainment industry which has managed to make itself almost interchangeable with Western pop culture.

I don't particulalry care, in fact, but it's an perfectly valid (and interesting) topic for debate, and by no means racist or even unkind.

Me saying Americans were uncool was really unkind though.

High School - most definitely not an Americanism (as all us High Schooled Scots are testifying).

I was a flower girl in Scotland 35 years ago - not an Americanism.

'-ize' - does not denote American spelling.

There are plenty of high schools here in Scotland. Even in the 1930s when Elvis was still a young-un.

They've long celebrated Halloween, too.

'Expat, it might surprise you to hear how much Mexican Spanish has crept into the language in Florida and California (and how Americans don't like it).'

It might suprise you how most Americans actually don't give a toss. And even more how many Americans don't speak English at all.

I grew up speaking both English and Mexican Spanish.

Expat is from Texas and well versed in Mexican-American culture. She is having a dig at how rude it is to post all of this stuff about another country's language/culture.

My daughter's nursery has me down as her Mom or Mommy.

Btw I was at a High School in the midlands.

Expat, it might surprise you to hear how much Mexican Spanish has crept into the language in Florida and California (and how Americans don't like it).

Don't quite understand your attitude.

Last I checked, Canada was still a British Dominion, rather than the 51st American State, so excuse me if I'm with the majority who are bothered by Americanisms, regardless of proximity or lack thereof.

Isn't there a line somewhere you guys should be forming?

I can't imagine why people think the English like to moan.

I'm hearing you, Daddio

Oh and people who say schedule with a hard C. And Z where it should be an S.

I may be back

broaden your mind, onebat, man

YANBU - Movie or Movies instead of film or Cinema. 'Go get' instead of 'go and get'. And 'truck' instead of 'lorry'. Grrr.

Of course. But they have to be in a very specific demographic which can trace its lineage back to Holden Caulfield via Nico. Drugs are usually involved somewehre.

c'mon, c'mon. Lots of Americans are cool. There's a hell of a lot of them to start with.

I think the problem is that anyone who is an early adopter of Americanisms sounds so desperate, don't they? Like the weedy dork (damn) currying favour with the jocks (damn, damn)

This stems almost entirely from my bigoted but sincerely-held belief that it's almost impossible for Americans to be genuinely cool. So all this lexical up-sucking is a fundamentally flawed project

Yes! People that make T's sound like D's (if they're English)

Stop it, you sound like a knob

B-e-a-u-d-i-f-u-l knobtastic imo

Screamingabdad- re; 'I've GOT a cold' - my english teacher always said that GOT is an americanism (THis is going back a few years) and actually the word GOT should NEVER be used. 'I HAVE a cold' is better.
'Then I GOT better' - 'Then I recovered.' You see????

May I add BACKYARD - we actually have a garden, kids. Also BAAADDDLE - There are 2 T's in BATTLE!!!
Heck.

I am so desperately confused.

I've been in Ireland 12.5 years now.

I've no longer any idea which are Americanisms, Irishisms or Britishisms

And then there are the Northern Irelandisms

and the Scottishisms

and this is why I just say FUCK most of the time.

It's rather universal.

"My bad!"

What the frock??! Are you two? Or...INSANE?

Really lljkk? Examples please...

Heehee, I find the Americanisms funny. Many of them are 20 years out of date; at least, I produce a much better "WHATEVER" than any of my DC -- dating from my own teen years 25 years ago. .

But I never heard the word "playdate" until I started reading MN.

There are funny Britishisms invading modern American English, too, you know.

Ooooh -- a Mexican thread? DD had quesadilla for dinner!

I went to a High School in the Midlands (after First and Middle Schools), my Mom sent me....perhaps the Midlands were the first with the Americanism trend???

My Mom lived in Canada for a while and when she came back used to use words and phrases which made me recoil. Don't know why her using "Movie" instead of film irritated me so much, probably because she kept banging on about much better everything was in Canada as well

Expat, where is that Mexican thread?

burgalarize bleugh

I went to a 'high school' in Scotland.

I'm a yank, and i [shamefully] agree with you on this... keep Britain British, yeah?

Hmm, 'No brainer' pisses me off, as do Z's where there should be S's

But

Cultural imperialism is not a new thing and I'm sure a few people bristled at Latin when it first arrived & French with the Normans etc

But at the same time they still piss me off

First of all, proms in the US are no longer the simple end of year dances they used to be when I was in high school there. It used to be that the students decorated the school gymnasium and a band was hired, plus a nice dinner was held in the decorated cafeteria prior - all paid for by fund raisers done by students of a particular class level over the previous few years.

Now, however, they are grossly overdone - often at insane places like amusement parks or hotels (yes, don't you just love when the parents stump up for a HOTEL ROOM for their little darlings for the night with all their friends?? that's clever, right? ). And the cost is exhorbitant - we are talking $100+ for tickets, plus an expensive meal at a fancy restaurant, plus additional expenses (think rental tux, prom dress, flowers, limo....) not to include the inevitable hotel room or what have you that parents will actually pay for! I hope to God it never ends up being a thing like that here!

I've never done the "playdates" thing - I always considered that a "yuppie" word and rather pretentious - we (and our kids) went to a friend's house to play. That's it.

I'm an American, have lived here with my British DH for 5 years, and I am careful to teach our children the British language, not American slang. First of all, some of it I don't like. And as our children are living here in the UK, it just seems more appropriate. But that's just my opinion.

It's not the American nature of the words I don't like, just the newness of them

I'll get used to them in the end I suppose!

moi non plus!

BecauseI'mWorthIt You are right, of course you are right.

Still don't like it though

People react differently to words we've absorbed into English from other languages though. Vendetta, genre, alligator, comrade etc etc, no-one has a problem with them. But because American English is English but with a few different words, we seem to take exception to it. Weird really, but I'm as guilty of it as the next person.

My DS says diaper sometimes too, I blame Spongebob.

But our language is filled with words we have taken from others. e.g. pyjamas, bungalow, shampoo, settee - all Indian.

Also, DS2 said diaper yesterday. That boy watches far too many DVDs

Oooh I love this thread.

<adjusts enormous bee-filled bonnet>

By personal hates are :

Dumb and Smart. My DSs are sick of me stopping them when they say "He was really smart" What, you mean he was looking super spiffy in nice clothes ??

Also, this one is quite subtle, but a lot of us say "I HAVE a cold", instead of "I've GOT a cold" as we would have in years gone by.

I love the fact that American English has stronger roots in English of old and is more correct, closet is a good example. I love American English, when Americans use it and when I'm in America!! Just not here please!!

I feel strangely defensive of the US now

While I really don't like the way 'gotten' sounds, it's not an Americanism.

<<stands in Expat's corner>>

yes, i'm fuming over something on the net, flamingo. uh huh.

I don't think I would ever call a discussion about how one language has influenced another and complaining about it, racism.

The french made it illegal. har, those crazy french

at how angry poor expat is!

I hate playdate too. I had no idea it was American, just new and stupid. Why does it need a name? I don't go to my friends' houses for a 'tea date' or a 'eating-cake date'. I just go round there!

And we didn't have a 'prom' we had a Dinner Dance. In fact we had lots - one after GCSEs, one after A-Levels and one every summer if your boyfriend was in the county football club . And we had Christmas ones! ALL called Dinner Dances or Balls.

That's the point surely Athene? We wouldn't - couldn't - be saying it about any other nation.
Which is why it exercises us all so much. This is the futile flapping over flim-flam which is the mark of the truly vanquished

I like to get narked then share

actually, i do hate 'specialty' instead of speciality.

if i ever moved back to the US there are certain British English words/terms i'd do my best to keep. Speciality is one of them, trousers another.

Why Riven? It doesn't actually matter that much in the long run, humans have always moved and changed it is how it goes.

High School isn't an americanism, though, is it?

We've had High Schools up here since I were a nipper.

I don't get that bothered about Americanisms, but why can't a billion be a million million anymore like it always used to be, and like it is in every other language? It just isn't a thousand million.

you're allll just jealous .

<runs away to hide in the den before anyone throws a sneaker at her>

Expat, I can say I don't like Americanisms in our language without saying anything about Americans.
I married an American but I don't like the way our culture and language is being Americanised.

I use "suck it up" because it is what my trainer likes to shout at me when I whine. I hear it so often it is burned into me now.

'simples'?

It's all these meerkat-isms I can't be doing with.

Closure, yy

Friends has a lot to answer for

Language flows and changes, trying to fight it is like trying to hold back the tide with a sandpit and a bucket.

Ah but is it a loch or a lock?

talk WITH you?
no nutters its talk to someone

" im good"

and CLOSURE

We overlook a loch. It's a sea loch, but it's a loch. It doesn't even flow into the sea, it flows into a firth, a bay, the sea itself is some distance away.

Hear loads of English people calling it the sea, though.

Let me go start a thread about what a bunch of ignoramuses they are.

While I totally understand the point of some being called seas, and some oceans,(I was thinking just that as I typed) the fact that we were going to 'the seaside' means we could see the sea. Thats my view anyway

If it's the sea e.g North sea you call it the sea, if it's the ocean e.g Atlantic ocean then you call it the ocean. Simples.

'We've always called it the sea, though ocean was an American thing (although I could be wrong - again)'

If a person is looking at the Atlantic or the Pacific, well, they're not seas. They're oceans.

How would anyone come to the conclusion that the term 'ocean', which is a geological qualification, is an Americanism?

Oh, and "daycare". I hate that term when referring to nursery.

'Want to clarify that I am in Canada so we are inundated with Americanisms '

No shit?! Really?! I'd never have thought that would go with being in, erm, N. America.

I'm going to start a thread bitching about how Mexicanisms have started to creep into American English and how annoying that is.

Those fecking Mexicans!

when I lived in stepford north Virginia no-one sweared (or cussed as they called it) and we were asked to leave the drama group when ds2 said 'arse'.

oh, oh, saying 'mad' for angry. since when have brits said that?

When we went on holiday with a friend last year, she phoned me just as we got to the seaside town to tell me she could see the 'ocean' We've always called it the sea, though ocean was an American thing (although I could be wrong - again)

I've heard 'fuck off' used with equal frequency in both nations.

I've heard 'fuck off' used with equal frequency in both nations.

Want to clarify that I am in Canada so we are inundated with Americanisms and in a way I've got used to it... but the stupid misspellings make me nuts!!!

Lite for light

Nite for night.

Thru for through.

Draft for draught.

GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my dh is american Athene

may I just add 'vacation'

Thanks again Lizzylou, seems I need educating lol

Drive-thru.

FFS!!!!

How much longer does it take to spell out the word "drive-through"???????

IneedAbetterNickname, Mom is a Midlands thing too!
I live up North now and DH insists I use "Mum" for the DS's.
MN is my only time to get back to my roots

I went to a high school that was founded in the 60s.

I hate hate hate when people do the date the American way. Its the 29th June NOT June 29!!!

Let's not forget "gotten".

And OF COURSE YABU. If this thread was about any other nation people would be jumping up and down with accusations of racism.

What about 'Uni' which I am sure only reached mass popularity with the rise of Australian soaps. Why is it so hard to say 'University'?

Soon we'll be having homerooms and recess.

Our head always says "students" instead of "pupils". And God forbid you ever say "children", even when discussing 11-year-olds...

Expect a tongue lashing from the head girl later, for that BOF.

Thunderduck - you are right but we didn't even phone we just went to their house, banged on the door and said 'is x playing?'

Panties. Now that's vile.

They're knickers.

Honestly.

(BTW, wrt to 'pants' -am I the only person to snigger when Americans say 'khaki pants'?)

I wish I really was posh and had understood what high teas and tradesman's entrances were...< flashes gym knickers at Thunderduck >

Yes pants is a Northern thing and probably old english which is why we have underpants.

AArgh! I detest the 'can I get' thing.

I don't like American fridges either.

I wouldn't call a playdate anything really.
When I was a child it was just known as going over to someone's house, that was it. You'd pick up the phone and say is X in, and if they were you'd go over. No real planning required.

It was penny for the guy in my day, not trick or treating.

Lizzylou, thanks for the clarification. We never went trick or treating either, as my brothers birthday is that day Incidentally I always thought MOM was an American spelling, but now believe its a Northen thing, am I correct? Much like the term 'pants' meaning trousers, my best friend moved oop north, and thats what she now insists on calling trousers!

Re: pants

Am american, lived in UK for 4 years, took me the entire time to get used to the pants/trousers issue. Now back in the US and am freaked out by all the pants.

What would you all call a playdate then?

'Can I get...?'

I have a Morning Room < posh and British >

IneedAbetterNickname, yes we went trick or treating (or rather didn't because by the time my Mom would let us go, we were too old). It's just all the costumes/bags of Halloween sweets etc that are around now, just like the US. It has been turned into an event, which is never was before.

All secondary schools that aren't Grammar are called High Schools in N.I.

I don't like the phrase 24/7.

Flick - we are not fortunate enough to have such a room but my parents did and we referred to it as a breakfast room.

The use of the word 'pants' meaning trousers is becoming worryingly and imo inadvisedly common of late - not least because we use the word for something specific already but also because some joker will inevitably chip in. I blame fashiony people, 'palazzo pants' is acceptable but just opens the door...

I see a difference between bridesmaids and flower girls. Bridesmaids are the adults and flower girls are young children. Perhaps that's just in my family though.

Lizzylou is trick or treating a new thing then? Children were doing it when I was a child 20 years ago? We were never allowed though. Or did you mean the fact that it has become so much bigger? My cousin has halloween parties.

GrimmaTheNome I agree re the 'college' thing, the school my DP went to was a 'technology college', interesting then that my school, known just as a school, had the best technology systems in (apparantly) the country.

bradsmissus tv has a lot to answer for, thanks to playhouse disney, my son now refuses to call a torch a torch, it's a flashlight, and when we went swimming said 'Oh cool, they have a splash board' {hmm] would that be diving board dear? He also asked if the car needed more 'gas'

senior or secondary schools.
And universities are not schools or colleges.
I hate students too if the child is below 18. Its pupil.

I'm in Scotland. Mine was most definitely a high school.

God, I love these threads

What up girlfriend, back at ya with the americanisms.
My ds Mummy I need to go pee....WTF? Dear Boy in Blighty we say I'm going to go to the toilet, or at the very least 'wee'.

Playdate... yuk
Flower girl.... bridesmaid
Students .... no they're pupils.

soctish schools are academys
you get high schools in the Midlands

so what else do you call a playdate? I hate it too but still end up saying it.

Den. I hate Den. we have a family room which i hate as well. but it's not a living room as it's all part of our open plan kitcheny thing.

Mind you, at our school we have 'graduation' ceremonies at the end of the school year - students 'graduate' from year 7 to 8. We all think it's a bit odd but the head likes it...

The phrase "suck it up" is appearing more frequently here. It irritates the hell out of me.

careful

high school = english

playdate = american

Riven, I am a bit busy at the moment to comment, so I will have to take a rain check and get back to you

The piece on the news about school proms was a little odd as they're not new at all. We've had a 6th form prom at the school I work at for at least the last 10 years.

I'm not keen on Americanisms in general but I think idea of the school prom is actually a good import - it's wonderful for the students to celebrate the end of their school days in some style rather than a grotty disco in the hall.

Aren't a lot of british secondary schools still called High Schools? Mine was. there were ... County Primary Schools and ... County Highs. I'd rather have that than 'Academy' or 'College' for anything pre-6th form. A thousand or two pubescent kids is NOT a college!

Proms ...thats not merely an Americanism, its a whole change of celebration. Requiring the importation of (ugh) limos. That should definitely be resisted!

YANBU - playdates - gah!

My DD (10) asked me the other day why cars have licence plates! Oh how I hate nickeloden!

(Bradsmissus ignores the fact that she defended DDs TV watching on the TVs in bedrooms thread!)

Agree re: Proms, they even hire Limos and go to the hairdressers etc! I was in the hairdressers and asked this young girl who was in there for her "Practice run" when she was going to be a Bridesmaid...it was a trial run for her bloody Prom night!

Also, I give you, Trick or treating.

How did it happen that Halloween turned into a Supermarket driven tat fest?

playdate is my particular hate. I want to grab peoples ears and shriek 'nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO'

surely this is how language and cultures develop and grow... by taking bits and pieces from each others' language?

I hate playdate too, but I don't see the problem with high school, not when the school that I went to was called St X High School.
I'd find it difficult to call it anything else.

YANBU! I hate the term 'playdate' some of my friends use it, one of them set her fb status to ' x is so excited that her baby boy has his 1st playdate today!!!!!!!!!!!' The baby was 2 weeks old, and so was his 'friend' so I suspect not a lot of playing was done! Me and another friend refuse to arrange 'playdates' for our children, they come round to play, or come over for lunch

wiggles head & points outstretched palm at unquietdad

Whatever, girlfriend.

Theres a piece on the news about School Proms - what happened to the end of term disco?

I am with you on this one - we are British not American!

babyshower!

chillax! riven

YANBU

Can I also add the fake American accent almost all 5+ girls seem to affect to the rage-o-meter?

High school
playdate

too many to name!
rant complain etc etc