To complain about a teacher having honeymoon leave before the end of term?

(169 Posts)
janegrey Mon 30-Mar-09 19:01:43

DDs are both in secondary school, DD1 doing GCSE.

One of their teachers, who teaches both of them, has been allowed to take leave to go on honeymoon this week even though it is still term time.

DD1 has already had issues about this particular teacher, whose marking has been inconsistent...fortunately her class is being taken by the subject head while he is away...and the subject head has helped her sort out the problems she had because of the inconsistent marking.

But DD2's class was supervised today by a teacher of a completely different subject. They had no work set, and in DD2's words they did "nothing".

I'm seething - I just cannot comprehend that the school/education authority has authorised leave in term-time for a non-essential reason...why couldn't he have gone on leave over the Easter holidays?

Do others agree? And if so, what's the most effective way to complain?

nametaken Mon 30-Mar-09 19:03:17

sad have a heart - it's his honeymoon

Thunderduck Mon 30-Mar-09 19:04:06

YABU.

janegrey Mon 30-Mar-09 19:04:38

Oh I have a heart - about my kids' education first and foremost, and the knowledge that the official school hols start on Saturday.

nametaken Mon 30-Mar-09 19:04:46

If you've got issues with the quality of his teaching you should have addressed them long before now, especially if it's a GCSE year.

EyeballsintheSky Mon 30-Mar-09 19:04:48

Maybe his wife is a heart surgeon. Just maybe that was the only time they could go. It's not just about him.

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 19:04:54

It is unusual for a school to grant such leave IME, unless there are strong underlying reasons. Without knowing the whole story it is impossible to say where the schoolw as wrong or not.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:05:01

I would complain, perhaps one day would be ok on friday but not a week. My school would not allow.

Letter to headteacher and governors

BitOfFunnyBunny Mon 30-Mar-09 19:05:39

YABU. I take it you'll want his wife to time any babies for the summer holidays?

BecauseImWoeufit Mon 30-Mar-09 19:05:43

YANBU. I hate this. Something like a wedding/honeymoon is usually planned well in advance and therefore I think should have been planned around school holidays.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:05:51

This is just before exam season as well, outrageous.

JudithChalmers Mon 30-Mar-09 19:05:53

We had this once where the teacher had booked it before starting at the school, that had diffo holidays to the ones we had.
Maybe he has taken it as unpaid - I presume so.

HecAteTheEasterBunny Mon 30-Mar-09 19:06:08

I dunno. I think I'd let it go, tbh. It's a one off, a honeymoon, isn't it? And I know that really, she could have married and gone on it during school hols, but is it really something you want to complain about? They will think you are awful, begrudging someone a honeymoon.

The issue of the cover is quite another thing and you'd be totally justified to complain about that. they shouldn't be doing nothing.

TheFallenMadonna Mon 30-Mar-09 19:06:14

My school wouldn't allow this either on the face of it, so I suspect there may be more to it.

tiggerlovestobounce Mon 30-Mar-09 19:06:22

YABU.
In the LA I live in teachers can have up to 10 days a year unpaid leave in term time without needing special authorisation.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:06:22

There is a slight difference though Bitoffun.

abbierhodes Mon 30-Mar-09 19:06:31

Is he new? I'm wondering if it's a holiday that had to be honoured. Even if he's been there a year, weddings/honeymoons are often booked way in advance.
Otherwise, though, I'm surprised this has been allowed.
Where I work, you can request time off to go to weddings of close family if absolutely necessary (usually unpaid) but this would only be one day, two at most if you had to travel.
You can't have time off for your own wedding though, as you get to decide when that is, (iyswim)so shouldn't book during term time!

OrmIrian Mon 30-Mar-09 19:06:52

It does seem odd. There are 12 (?) weeks when they are not in school.

nametaken Mon 30-Mar-09 19:07:04

You can complain about him taking time off in term time but do you honestly think he'll cancel his honeymoon if you complain?

The Head has given him permission for time off and won't take kindly to you telling him how to manage his staff.

oxocube Mon 30-Mar-09 19:07:20

How long has she been teaching at this school? If she is relatively new then it is quite possible that her wedding was planned before she started working there and her taking time off was already agreed to. Don't people plan weddings/book venues several years in advance these days?

JudithChalmers Mon 30-Mar-09 19:07:25

I bet you dont know the story.
How long is it?

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:07:41

Do teachers take this time though? I may be "allowed" so many days off without facing a disciplinary but I would not take them. Why would I need them? I have holidays and weekends,

Maybe. As nametaken said, it's possible that his wife couldn't get leave in the holidays. But in most cases these things are arranged very far in advance so she should have been able to sort it out.

DSM Mon 30-Mar-09 19:07:57

Is his honeymoon only one week?

If so, yes he probably should have tried to take it during the school holidays. But he didn't. Would you complain if he was off sick?

Its not the end of the world. Your children aren't going to fail on the back of one week of lessons from a different teacher.

hatwoman Mon 30-Mar-09 19:08:01

there may be all sorts of reasons why they had their wedding and honeymoon in term time. I doubt it's going to have a seriously negative effect on your dd. I also doubt very much that the class really did do "nothing". they may have been supervised whilst told to get on with some independent study - which is no bad thing.

if there are other problems with this teacher then you should raise them with him first and then the head. but that's seperate from the honeymoon thing.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:08:14

yes she may be new.

nametaken Mon 30-Mar-09 19:08:31

Maybe his fiance hasn't got long to live so they have to marry quickly.

fleurlechaunte Mon 30-Mar-09 19:08:37

Really? This is not a joke? I think anyone who had an issue with this must be really uptight and in fact a bit me, me, me. Other people have lives as well.

YABU.

Like nametaken said you should address the quality of his teaching separately.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:09:04

DSM theywill fall back if they are about to sit GCSEs.

purepurple Mon 30-Mar-09 19:09:10

YABU

teachers get sick and have time off
what's the difference?

robinpud Mon 30-Mar-09 19:09:28

Would you complain if the teacher were ill? Or if they were granted leave to nurse a sick spouse?

Ask yourself what your real issues is, is it the discretionary leave or the quality of the teaching.
Our head sanctions leave in term times in extenuating circumstances; it's massively motivating for staff who work at least 60 hours a week .

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 19:09:39

I nearly had to take unpaid leave for my wedding for last week of term. I got married in Kenya and booked the holiday a year in advance. The airline twice changed their dates, the second change moving the date to the beginning of the last week of term. Fortunately the travel company then changed our airline so we could travel a bit later - we ended up going day after school finished - phew.

But my headmaster did say he would allow me leave, and I had a big group of teachers wh were very willing to cover my lessons that week for me to enable me to go and get married.

oxocube Mon 30-Mar-09 19:09:45

BTW janegrey said the teacher was a 'she'. Just thought I'd point it out as everyone is assuming otherwise!!

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:09:47

The quality of teaching is a separate issue but it is ridiculous to take time off in term time for a holiday.

Thunderduck Mon 30-Mar-09 19:09:50

The only possibly valid point I can see is that they should have had some work to do, however they could have studied by themselves.
They are certainly old enough to have the initiative to do so, speaking of the class as a whole here. It isn't detrimental to have to do that occasionally.

BitOfFunnyBunny Mon 30-Mar-09 19:10:31

PMSL @ nametaken...even so, she might last till Easter grin

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:10:37

being sick is not the same as going on holiday. You cant help being sick you can help going on holiday.

Beetroot Mon 30-Mar-09 19:10:37

we do have plenty on holiday in which to take honeymoons imo

katz Mon 30-Mar-09 19:10:44

so you guys don't like it when the boots on the other foot then. You want to be able to take your children out of school as and when it suits you but for one teacher to take a week off to GET MARRIED then thats unreasonable. I'd hazard a guess that he has had to set work for all his classes before going.

I'd just like to point out that teachers are people with real lives and are entitled to take unpaid leave within reason.

fleurlechaunte Mon 30-Mar-09 19:11:01

She said she at first and then it was he further down. Who knows.

DSM Mon 30-Mar-09 19:11:51

Twinset - they are not going to fall back from missing a few lessons in the last week of term.

Janegrey said the teacher was a he.

purepurple Mon 30-Mar-09 19:12:02

oxocube

the Op twice refers to the teacher as a he

janegrey Mon 30-Mar-09 19:12:07

No, it's not a joke. DD1 has sorted out the problems with the marking by speaking to the subject head - I encouraged her to do that without my intervention.

Why is it uptight to think that with the 12 or 13 weeks holiday that he would already get during school holidays, that an additional week is unreasonable?

I'm not sure how long he's been there - I'll check with the girls - but presumably even if it's his first year he would have been training as a teacher last year and have some idea of when Easter holidays were going to be.

hatwoman Mon 30-Mar-09 19:12:31

he/she appears as both in the OP.

abbierhodes Mon 30-Mar-09 19:12:34

Oxo, the OP definitely says He.

TheFallenMadonna Mon 30-Mar-09 19:12:37

OP definitely says teacher is a man BTW.

herbietea Mon 30-Mar-09 19:12:41

Message withdrawn

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:13:05

My child is never off during term time unless they are ill. I would never allow my child to have a holiday in term time although as a teacher it would be difficult. Katz I have a real life and have 12 weeks plus in which to live it.

nametaken Mon 30-Mar-09 19:13:16

makes no difference whether it's a man or woman - also the OP can't complain if she has ever taken her dcs out of school during term time (not saying she has though)

DSM Mon 30-Mar-09 19:13:26

But maybe his wife was unable to take time off any other time?

How long is his honeymoon?

abbierhodes Mon 30-Mar-09 19:13:45

What do you mean by 'problems' with marking?

janegrey Mon 30-Mar-09 19:13:49

The teacher who took leave is a he, the head of subject, who has taught DD1 today is a she.

spicemonster Mon 30-Mar-09 19:14:05

I'd be annoyed if I had to pay for additional childcare but unless it was a GCSE year, then no. Although having said that, I have a lot of friends who are teachers, 3 of whom are getting married in the next 18 months and they have all arranged their weddings/honeymoons for the school holidays. I don't think it's massively unreasonable to expect someone who has 12 weeks holiday at fixed times of the year to take their holiday during those weeks ...

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:14:40

As a teacher DSM I can say that my year 11s and 12s will miss out if they are not in class this week or if I am out.

I work my classes until the end of term, as should any teacher.

TheFallenMadonna Mon 30-Mar-09 19:14:40

Actually, I started work unexpectedly after five years off in November. If I had been the kind of parent who takes a child out of school for holidays wink I might well have booked a holiday for term time. I wasn't training last year.

oxocube Mon 30-Mar-09 19:14:45

I teach but wouldn't take time off unless unavoidable. Need to do so soon as SIL is getting married on a Friday but as I team teach, my colleague and I have simply switched days so kids don't suffer at all. Still feel the OP is being a little harsh though, maybe without knowing the ful story.

MillyR Mon 30-Mar-09 19:14:46

The complaint is really with the school, not the teacher, I think. There should have been adequate cover. Why the teacher wasn't there isn't really relevant. Independent study is nonsense. If they're not being taught by anyone then there is no reason to be there.

StewieGriffinsMom Mon 30-Mar-09 19:15:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I'd be hacked off tbh and would assume there must be a compelling reason for the head to allow it.

I'd also be nosey enough to wonder what. Sick/paernity leave are obv different.

DSM Mon 30-Mar-09 19:15:31

twinset - no pupil is seriously going to fail an exam they have been studying for two years because they missed a few classes at the end of term.

Come on.

janegrey Mon 30-Mar-09 19:15:36

Problems with marking were telling dd1 to change elements of her coursework, then marking her down when she did.

A friend of hers was told to change her essay, left it exactly the same, and was given a better mark for the identical essay the next time.

As I said, DD1 sorted out the issues this caused caused with another teacher though before submitting the final essay for GCSE.

nametaken Mon 30-Mar-09 19:15:58

maybe his fiance is a teacher in a different local authority and their holidays don't co-incide so to be fair, they took one weeks leave in each local authority grin

Maybe it's a shotgun wedding and they have to get married sharpish.

oxocube Mon 30-Mar-09 19:16:02

Oh sorry Purple, the 'she' refers to the OP's DD blush

morningpaper Mon 30-Mar-09 19:17:23

It is a bit annoying but he probably planned it well before he took up the teaching post, particularly if he is new! I wouldn't make a formal complaint although I might have a quiet word. Formal complaint will make you look like a heartless bastard though

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 19:17:39

twinset - many teachers do take some of their allowed days - I have known many to have time off when moving house for example, and I have definitely taken time off to look after DD when ill in the past.

nametaken Mon 30-Mar-09 19:17:47

Oh i see, he give your daughters friend a higher mark than he gave your dd.

In that case, definately complain.

janegrey Mon 30-Mar-09 19:17:59

Of course I'd have no problem with sickness/paternity leave - those are unavoidable.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:18:28

DSM they are not going to seriously fail but it could mean missing something they need that makes a difference between an A OR A* or C/D which could mean a college place.

This is such a crucial part of the school calandar , it seems madness.

janegrey Mon 30-Mar-09 19:19:14

Nametaken - no, the friend submitted the same essay (her own), twice. And was given a higher mark for the identical essay the second time it was submitted.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:20:05

I am sure they take some, I have had a day off for moviing before and a day off for a funeral. But I never think I have ten days to play with this year I will use them for a holiday- which is what a honeymoon is.

purepurple Mon 30-Mar-09 19:20:29

but, if it was cheaper this week than next, who can blame him? wink

economic downturn and all that

DSM Mon 30-Mar-09 19:21:19

I am sure the teacher will have made sure they will know all they need to know by now, given that he knew he would be absent this week.
And this isn't the last day before the exam, they have plenty of time to study.

Pupils don't pay that much attention in the last week of term anyway, they are preoccupied with going on holiday. smile

I really don't think missing 3 or 4 lessons in a 2 year course is going to cause an otherwise perfectly capable student to fail.

oxocube Mon 30-Mar-09 19:21:32

"Of course I'd have no problem with sickness/paternity leave - those are unavoidable. "
Unless of course, his wife deliberately plans conception and birth to tie in with school holidays grin

Am joking, of course. Who knows the full story.

nickytwotimes Mon 30-Mar-09 19:21:35

Generally, there is no way the school would allow a honeymoon to be taken during term time.

There must be some reason it has been allowed - ill health of the fiance, arranged before the contract began, etc as suggested above.

cascade Mon 30-Mar-09 19:21:58

Twinsetandpearls - the school have taken the appropriate action, the HOD covered the GCSE lesson. The teacher more than likely was allowed to go as the school could cover the GCSE class appropriately.

mosschops30 Mon 30-Mar-09 19:22:02

YABU, its a week fgs. If your child is so reliant on that one teacher (which from your OP it sounds not) that they will fail if they go away for a week then you do have a problem!
Why shouldnt teachers have a life too, its not a regular occurance, its his honeymoon, and should be able to take it when he wants.
If he got sick he'd have a week or maybe more off!

nickytwotimes Mon 30-Mar-09 19:22:37

Oh,a dn lol at paternity leave - we tried to conceive #2 to coincide with the inspectors. Damn it, it didn't work. wink

Simplysally Mon 30-Mar-09 19:23:06

It sounds as though the problem is more with the consistency of the teaching/marking more than the leave per se which you say has already been addressed.

Tbh, I wouldn't raise the issue of the honeymoon as it can't be changed now and unless they're likely to get re-married every year, unlikely to re-occur. I doubt it was sanctioned lightly.

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 19:23:27

Also - teachers have time off for courses, etc. One week really won't cause many problems IME. It is not ideal. But - as I am sure there wll be good reasons as to why this has been agreed you - it s a one off, the school have deemed it approprite, so I can't see the real problem.

The marking problem is an entirely seperate issue.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:23:29

My year 11s are very focussed at the moment, regardless of a holiday approaching.

ScummyMummy Mon 30-Mar-09 19:25:04

You are a meanie! DD1 is being catered for and DD2 wi;ll survive a few boring lessons. Give over, girlfriend.

DSM Mon 30-Mar-09 19:25:14

Okay. But do you think that if you had to take a week off for some reason, they would possibly fail, or get a lower grade than if you didn't?

I doubt it. If they have been well taught for the duration of their GCSE's, a few missed lessons really won't make a difference.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:25:48

Teachers have time off for courses but schools have blocks of time in which no courses or trips are allowed because of impending exams.

I am sure that there must be a very very good reason for the school to allow this.

mosschops of course teachers have a life and we have more time than most to conduct it in.

abbierhodes Mon 30-Mar-09 19:26:59

I don't agree with those who say he should be able to take it when he wants. You don't have 12 weeks holiday a year for nothing.
However, I would say that there must be more to it, the school would not allow it otherwise.
I think the marking is more of a problem tbh. I would be very concerned about that.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:28:57

I dont know DSM, I have taught 2 year 11 lessons today and on both I saw students have lightbulb moments that I know will make a real difference. We are just finishing off course content and I wont repeat that, they could catch up themselves of course ( although I suspect that the 2 bottoms sets that I taught today would not)

I would have to be at death's door to be off for a week. I was on casualty last night with chest problems, one of my biggest concerns was not being able to see my exam classes today. But I am work obsessed.

TheFallenMadonna Mon 30-Mar-09 19:29:24

The exam class is being taught by the HoD though Twinset - they're not going it alone.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:29:24

not on casualty, I dont moonlight as an actress at casualty.

abbierhodes Mon 30-Mar-09 19:29:34

Twinset, I've never heard of a school having 'blocks of time' where courses aren't allowed. This simply wouldn't work in most places as so many courses are modular, there isn't a set 'exam' time.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:30:06

yes Fallen that is true I suppose, I just know my school would not allow it.

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 19:30:56

twinset - I do respect how hard you work and how much you put your students first above yoursekf - but that is not always the right thing to do. You have to think about yourself too. I learnt that the hard way. It's about balance.

janegrey Mon 30-Mar-09 19:31:04

Twinset - please tell me where you teach! We'll move grin

TheFallenMadonna Mon 30-Mar-09 19:31:30

Neither would mine.
Unless there were exceptional circumstances. Must be, surely?

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:31:56

Really abbierhodes when we get our school calendar we have blocks of time in which nothing can be arranged, either courses or trips. Of course it is more challenging wth modular exams but there are still crucial times when exams are happening in a lot of subjects or when we are setting our own mocks.

TheFallenMadonna Mon 30-Mar-09 19:32:56

God yes Twinset. You can indeed go too far. I shall almost certianly be off tomorrow as I have had no voice for 6 days sad. No year 11s on a Tuesday though...

katz Mon 30-Mar-09 19:33:09

twinset - thats not true, DH is allowed to go on courses whenever, there are no restrictions, it is up to the head. He's having 5 days off between the start of term after the Easter hols and his children going on exam leave. He only teaches A Level, so all of his classes are exam classes. He has to write detailed lesson plans so that the the lessons are well taught.

The OP school should be making sure that the lesson are being properly covered. Maybe he and his wife wanted to have a 3 week honeymoon, maybe the flights were cheaper, maybe the weather was nicer, maybe they couldn't have afforded a honeymoon at another time, maybe his wife couldn't take time off else where, again these are all reasons given my mumsnetters as to why they have taken their children out of school.

Message withdrawn

ScummyMummy Mon 30-Mar-09 19:33:40

Damn right, hula. Lightbulb moments are fabbo indeed but you must also look after yourself Ms Twinset.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:33:43

I am sure hula if I was having a heart attack I would not be in work grin Instead I have big boobs and too much stress. I made arrangements at work to limit my stress.

DSM Mon 30-Mar-09 19:34:07

TBH, that really concerns me, that so close to exam time they are still not completely ready to sit the exams. IMO, they should have a full knowledge of the curriculum, and use the last couple of months to study. Obviously there will be some less able students who need the extra help, but for the most part..

I find that quite concerning, really.

Also, think it might be a good thing to have a different teacher now and again, very occasionally of course, as a fresh way of explaining something can help sometimes.

Either way, I think I would be really concerned if I felt my child was going to significantly fall behind so close to exam time for the sake of a few lessons.

PS - ROFL @ moonlighting as an actress! grin

cornsilk Mon 30-Mar-09 19:34:19

I worked in a school that allowed holidays/honeymoons during term time. Circumstances were not exceptional. Also happened in my ds's school (don't know about the circumstances there though.) Like twinset I don't really agree with it - we have 5 weeks off at Summer.

TheFallenMadonna Mon 30-Mar-09 19:34:23

Well, we're never allowed on courses, so that solves that one hmm

clam Mon 30-Mar-09 19:35:28

But weddings are notoriously difficult to timetable, particularly if you want to get married within, say the next 6 months. Venues/churches/family abroad etc.. all have to be dove-tailed. Plus the spouse's work schedule. It's not always as simple as that.

The OP's priority in life is her DD. The teacher's, presumably, is her marriage. The kids will not suffer unduly for missing a couple of lessons in the last week of term. Presumably the Head and Governors (who would have had to sanction the absence) don't have a major problem with it.

Get over it. YABU. And certainly so to complain.

TheFallenMadonna Mon 30-Mar-09 19:35:35

Do you teach DSM?

ScummyMummy Mon 30-Mar-09 19:36:29

Big boobs rock. Especvially in combo with big brains and loads of commitment. it's probably this special combo that is behind the lightbulb moments for some kids.

katiestar Mon 30-Mar-09 19:36:35

The wedding was probably planned before term dates had been decided.YABU

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:37:18

Blacking out parts of the calendar has been the case for atleast 3 of the 4 schools I taught in. It clearly is not the case at all schools then.

I have noticed that of course senior leaders sometimes have to be absent at blocked out time and they tend to be the only people who only have a level.

BradfordMum Mon 30-Mar-09 19:38:24

I wonder if his parents will receive a fine?!

abbierhodes Mon 30-Mar-09 19:38:43

DSM, do you teach? Are you aware of how tight most curriculums are for time? There is barely enough time to cover everything.
I would love to teach in an ideal world which had a couple of months to just study! Unfortunately I teach in the real one.

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 19:38:57

Just be careful and look after yourself twinset. Working every hour was the end of me in the end with regards teaching. Took a long time to recover, and school really never did anything to help in the end. Sometimes it is better to know when to take a break. So long as you remember that ultimately YOU come first. Everything else can and ill look after itself - your health won't.

abbierhodes Mon 30-Mar-09 19:40:27

BradfordMum I don't know anyone who has recieved a fine for one week off. You have to have about a third of the year off before they'll take you to court.

nigglewiggle Mon 30-Mar-09 19:41:00

OP - have you ever taken your children out of school in term-time to take a cheaper holiday?

angrypixie Mon 30-Mar-09 19:43:48

Like many on here I am both mother and teacher and I wouldn't be having a fit about it. Agree that school have made good provision for the GCSE class with HOD.

It is for the school/governors to sanction any additional leave and you have to trust that they make informed decisions. It is not reasonable to expect them to explain themselves to you. If you don't trust your governing body that is a separate issue.

katz Mon 30-Mar-09 19:44:13

niggle - the exact point i made further up, how many threads have their been mumsnet AIBU i want to take my child out of school in term time.

janegrey Mon 30-Mar-09 19:45:37

No, I've never taken the children out of school for a cheaper holiday. I value education very highly and do my best to ensure that they do too.

herbietea Mon 30-Mar-09 19:45:58

Message withdrawn

Heated Mon 30-Mar-09 19:47:48

At the discretion of the head and as long as proper arrangements are made to provide teaching /cover (like subbing with the HoD) then it's fairly common. It's how INSET courses, paternity leave, planned medical absence eg operations, are covered and, in exceptional circumstances, honeymoons.

Given he is a new member of staff I would guess that the honeymoon date would have come up at the time of appointment (since weddings are planned a long distance ahead) and permission granted then. Easter holidays, as we know, move around a bit and vary from LEA to LEA.

purepurple Mon 30-Mar-09 19:47:55

herbietea, we never had a honeymoon either. DH was in the RAF on a training course at RAF Halton so we got married at Easter, for the long weekend. then it was straight into married quarters.

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 19:48:57

But herbietea - we have no idea WHY he has been allowed this week off school. There could be lots of reasons which make it perfectly valid.

As explained below - I nearly had to have a week off for my own wedding. Wasn't planned but was sanctioned by my headteacher.

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 19:50:23

So, is he a new teacher then? Has that been confirmed?

If so then it is very very likely it is a pre planned wedding, planned before he started at the school but which has to be honoured.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:50:26

Hula I have a partner who is very good at keeping an eye on me and saying when to stop as I am quite robot like and will just work until I drop.

Thanks smile

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 19:51:08

Good to hear twinset grin

God, I sound like my mum!!! lol

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:51:52

Last year I books flights to america in the 25th June rather than July and then went into work boasting about my cheap flights. Luckily I could rebook.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 19:52:54

Nothing wrong with sounding like your mum grin

Heated Mon 30-Mar-09 19:53:01

Just to add, all teachers I know plan their lives around the holidays. Heck, I even timed when my dcs would be born to have minimum impact! Saw my GCSE and A level classes off and gave birth the following week. So imo, his honeymoon would have been pre-arranged before taking the job.

HolidaysQueen Mon 30-Mar-09 19:54:27

YABU. It's not like your DDs have this teacher for the whole week is it? What have they missed - about 2 hours, maybe 3 of teaching? And nobody does serious work in the last week of term anyway so it's no wonder your DD said they did nothing - I bet they are doing close to nothing in most of their other classes as well!

I also really don't see why the problems with marking are at all relevant? Are you saying that because your DD has had problems with this teacher then this teacher shouldn't be entitled to unpaid leave (the implication being that if the marking was fine then he could?) It's completely irrelevant to the question of him taking leave.

I really hope I'm not this self-centred when my DS is grown up!

Simplysally Mon 30-Mar-09 19:56:37

Abbierhodes - my LEA has fined parents in my school for taking a week's holiday from primary school. The school itself has a zero tolerance policy. It doesn't stop parents though as the fine (used to be) is still cheaper than waiting til peak time. The fines are aimed at the wrong people....

onagar Mon 30-Mar-09 19:57:20

Given how much fuss they make about kids having time off for family things I think it's a joke that they can do that. They should be embarrassed as hell at the hypocrisy.

pointydog Mon 30-Mar-09 19:57:47

oh please. get some perspective. The barely suppressed stress on here is palpable.

herbietea Mon 30-Mar-09 19:58:36

Message withdrawn

herbietea Mon 30-Mar-09 20:01:48

Message withdrawn

janegrey Mon 30-Mar-09 20:04:10

I think the marking problems are relevant, because it makes me wonder how seriously this particular teacher is taking his job.

If it had been just the marking alone, given that DD1 sorted out that issue with the help of the head of department, I wouldn't be so worked up about the week off.

But it's a subject which DD1 is planning to study at A'level and although this particular teacher isn't currently nominated to teach the A'level course, he may do (the head of year has recently returned from maternity leave, so it's possible, for instance, that she might have more maternity leave).

I am also quite shocked by the responses on this topic.

I used to teach and although my kids were everything and I loved them like my own...at the end of the day it was just my job, not my life. Of course I would always try to sort my life around my commitments as a teacher but sometimes this just could not be done. Everytime I had to leave it was harder work for me as I had to plan everything detail by detail and go over everything with my replacement.

I will even admit that I had a year contract and planned on getting married in the summer. I had moved the wedding up to December (during break) but as my DH is from here and I am not, during the break I realized I could not be without him until the end of my term, so I had to go back in Jan and put in my notice. It killed me but they totally understood. I helped to hire who replaced me and I spent a month training. At the end of the day my life came first, and I still keep in touch with some of my students parents!

Oh and as a side note...I always had kids being pulled to go on holiday. I even had a kid who missed a month to go to India...so it happens. Life should always come first!

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 20:07:20

exam classes do serious work in the last week, my year 11s are doing practice papers this week. My year 12s are doing times essays ( year 10 on work experience.)

My other year groups are working hard as a matter of fact.

It is not about being self centred it is about expecting people to meet contractual oblligations.

samsonthecat Mon 30-Mar-09 20:10:26

Are you sure he is really on his honeymoon? I was off work sick for 6 weeks a few years ago and when I came back some of the kids asked me about my "honeymoon". I have no idea where they got that from but I was quite annoyed by it.

pointydog Mon 30-Mar-09 20:10:58

The HoD is taking the exam class. Other arrangements can be made when necessary

cory Mon 30-Mar-09 20:12:47

Most schools I know no longer allow children to take time off in term time for holidays so it would seem a bit odd if teachers were allowed.

hotcrosspurepurplesleb Mon 30-Mar-09 20:13:46

are we still talking about this?
yawn, a bit boring now

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 20:14:36

Having been ticked off by hotcross I am off to mark a set of books that are not going to do themselves.

ellceeell Mon 30-Mar-09 20:14:53

I thought that it was actually in teachers contracts that they could not take leave in term time unless there are exceptional circumstances? And their own weddings are not considered "exceptional"? Or has that changed?

SoupDreggon Mon 30-Mar-09 20:16:06

If he was a "good" teacher who your DD liked, would you be so angry?

There must be a good reason or it would not have been allowed. You have no idea what the story is.

Littlefish Mon 30-Mar-09 20:17:04

I moved local authorities when I got married. The holiday dates of the two authorities did not match up and I was given 4 days unpaid leave from my new job so that I could go on my honeymoon.

There is presumably a good reason why this teacher has been given permission. His wife may not have any flexibility on dates and this is the only way they will have a honeymoon.

gingernutlover Mon 30-Mar-09 20:20:15

if you are annoyed about the teachers marking then complain about him to his manager - although if it bothered you that much you would have done that by now.

if you are annoyed about the time off, complain to the school about THEIR decision, they are the ones who allowed him to take it. Rubbish timing maybe but it would have been the schools decision to allow the leave.

Not that it would matter (I am guessing), but the leave would be unpaid and he would be perfectly entitled to apply for it. You dont know the personal curcumstances involved, but obviously his manager did when he/she made their decision and they decided it was acceptable to let him take the time off.

I am a teacher and have never asked for time off in term time but I know a member of our staff has requested a month off unpaid to go travelling with his wife for his 50th birthday.

Sassybeast Mon 30-Mar-09 20:20:28

Oh - what do people think of my mate - head of department who times her pregancies so that she finishes her mat leave the week before summer holidays, goes back for a week and then has her summer holidays paid for ? It's worked out perfectly for her FOUR times - she's been at the school for 5 years and has been on mat leave more than she's taught - is that fair?

qumps Mon 30-Mar-09 20:22:11

i am a teacher and took 2 weeks unpaid leave for my honeymoon. my husband is a rugby player and june was the only time we could go. we teachers are so lucky that we get lots of hols but they are restrictive and we really had no choice if we wanted a honeymoon.
i did feel bad but i also arranged my own supply cover, did hours of work planning lessons and had a bloody good time!
i love my job but i love my life and my husband more.

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 20:23:54

By herbietea on Mon 30-Mar-09 19:58:36
.

Hula - IMVHO he has 13 weeks in which to take his honeymoon and so he should have used one of them. Unless his wife is dying or something exceptional like that.

But what happens if he booked the holiday before accepting this job? Should the wedding then be cancelled and him and hi partner lose their money, etc and have to start planning again?

Or in my case - when the airline were at fault, not my planning - should I have had to cancel my whole wedding for the sake of a week?

gingernutlover Mon 30-Mar-09 20:24:49

sassy beast, i would say if she is lucky enough to get pregnant the moment she wants to - fair play to her grin

are all her childrens birthdays in the same month? Not good haha.

JudithChalmers Mon 30-Mar-09 20:25:35

<wonders if the OP has ever taken her kids out of school and thought it "didnt matter">

arf

gingernutlover Mon 30-Mar-09 20:28:36

ooooh just remembered somthing that happened last year, our secretary typed the term dates up wrong, and someone did book their holiday the wrong week, one of the TA's, they were allowed to go.

any chance this might have happened?

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 20:29:22

By Sassybeast on Mon 30-Mar-09 20:20:28
Oh - what do people think of my mate - head of department who times her pregancies so that she finishes her mat leave the week before summer holidays, goes back for a week and then has her summer holidays paid for ?

Sassybeast - that is how my maternity leave worked. I went on mat leave the week after the February half term (so in effect got Feb half term full pay for free) and then went back for last 2 days of summer term, and was on full pay for summer holidays. I then went part time as of 1st September.

In reality you do not even have to go back for any time at all before the summer holidays. You can simply say that you are returning to work as off <frst day of holiday> and still be paid. I did go in for last 2 days so I could sort timetabling, etc.

chosenone Mon 30-Mar-09 20:29:39

IME teaching in 5 different schools it seems to be at the discretion of the head how these things are dealt with. I have known a teacher have unpaid time off for her honey moon and only booked it when the head and governors agreed it, she left thoroughly planned work and her groups were fine! I've known people have time off if they've won a holiday, for family weddings in Oz and South Africa, graduations etc we can't expect our family members to plan around our holidays can we? shock and if its unpaid then what can the employers really do?

The issues important are here are because its at the heads discretion, like so many things including, time off to see childs assemblies, funerals etc if its not granted morale is affected and as so much of teaching relies on goodwill of staff to work extra hours, holidays, weekends, assist on residentials etc its a shame when staff get told they can't go to a funeral or something then good will and morale starts to evaporate.

The 2nd issue is that another qualified teacher should be able to teach work that has been planned and prepared by absent teacher, unfortunately most schools now use unqualified staff or cover supervisors who are often left covering sick or absent colleagues for weeks without even having an A level in the subject they're teaching! More parents should be up in arms about this tbh!

JudithChalmers Mon 30-Mar-09 20:30:02

dont you?
I think you do HUla.
<lounges on lilo >

ScottishMummy Mon 30-Mar-09 20:30:38

the leave would have been approved-presumably by senior staff?dont imagine teacher nipped off

JudithChalmers Mon 30-Mar-09 20:30:55

and also they cant use cover supervisors indefinitely afaik.

Certain kinds of abscence needs a proper teacher.

JudithChalmers Mon 30-Mar-09 20:31:48

ALSO re summer holidays
teacher are only paid for the term

they just spread the pay out so you get paid in August

this is a commonly held misconception,

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 20:32:13

JudithChalmers - don't I what???

I want to be on a lilo sipping cocktails right now, somewhere hot and warm.

JudithChalmers Mon 30-Mar-09 20:32:58

<cheers>

I thought you had to go in for 2 weeks to show you were not on Mat leave any more
But am ready to be wrong.

Sassybeast Mon 30-Mar-09 20:33:15

GingerNutLover - 6 weeks between all 4 - she has an expensive build up to Christmas and New Year!

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 20:34:12

I think cover supervisors and TAs can only do a certain number of sickness days can't they? I know that I (I work as a Level 3 TA with one responsibility point for doing PPA) can only do first day sick cover for a class teacher. I also cover regular PPA time for my class teacher - I do the ICT lesson each week at this time.

JudithChalmers Mon 30-Mar-09 20:34:53

yes I am supplying atm and i think they use me when the malingerer teacher is long term sick

JudithChalmers Mon 30-Mar-09 20:35:21

<snigger at teacher binnign ALL ICT to you - that is crap!!!>

qumps Mon 30-Mar-09 20:35:39

i am genuinely quite shocked at how much this has upset people. maybe i am only looking at it from a teachers side and will feel different if it was my ds teacher.
do people really think that teachers sould not be allowed leave from school during term time for anything?
btw i went back from ds1 maternity leave pregnant with ds2 and kicked the arse out of it, planning leave around holidays. any sensible female teacher does.

Hulababy Mon 30-Mar-09 20:35:50

JC - ah, yes. No - I checked it out with the union when I was going abck. No legal responsibility to go back at all before end of term. Maternity leave can start and end at beginning, middle or end of a school holiday. I still chose to go back for 2 days (school broke up on a Tuesday that year) for my own sake.

qumps Mon 30-Mar-09 20:37:36

and maternity leave counts as continued service so if you wanted to you could just keep having babies and not go back at all!

well, am surprised how gentle people are wiht op, and infact at how many feel she is not unreasonable....

I think the issue is more the marking issues, and how this made OP feel and that that is why she feels so strongly about this....

tbh, if I ask my Es , who is in year 8, what he has done in school the answer tends to be...nothing....etc....I doubt, however, that that is true....

OP, I think yabu....there could be so many reasons of why the teacher had to take time off for Honeymoon outside the Holidays, and as it has been granted, it's non of your business, and to consider complaining....well..don't think you would be doing your dd's a favour...

janegrey Mon 30-Mar-09 20:53:15

My children's education is most certainly my business.

I think the biggest issue is the lack of cover for dd2, who maintains the teacher did not set them any work today; dd1 on the other appears to have benefited because the head of department gave them a new perspective on some of the syllabus.

pointydog Mon 30-Mar-09 21:40:10

how many classes is dd2 missing?

when one of dd1's teachers is off due to stress, dd1 often does little of great importance. S'only home ec though. But I can't say th odd instance like this bothers me. A rubbishy teacher all year is much more of an issue.

mumeeee Mon 30-Mar-09 21:48:54

YABU, He is not just taking a holiday because he feeks kike it, It is his honeymoon and to me this is an esential thing to have a the start of your married life.

twinsetandpearls Mon 30-Mar-09 22:17:15

I think not being paid for the holidays is not relevant tbh, the fact is we are well paid for what we do, have fantastc holidays and immense job satisfaction, it is not much to ask in return for teachers to use their holidays for holidays.

Their will be extreme examples. I was once given three days off when my grandma was dying at the other end of the country.

I am glad Jane that your HOD was able to give your dd a new perspective on the syllabus.

Simplysally Mon 30-Mar-09 23:23:06

Not being paid for the holidays would be irrelevant as far my employer thinks as you still have to pay for cover besides which we're not allowed to take unpaid leave if we have paid leave to draw upon (this point is often lost on some of our employees as they simply work lots of overtime beforehand to make up their shortfall in pay). However I don't feel that a well-planned lesson left for another teacher to cover in a school, should pose too much of an issue provided it's not a long-term thing.

The poor or inconsistent marking is something else though which would bother me more than a planned absence. Arguably a sudden sickness on the part of the teacher would be worse as there might not be lesson plans in place or someone briefed in what the class has covered. It does seem bad form but I imagine that there was a good reason for it.

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