Playdates and car seats - am I over-reacting?

[snickersnack]

dd goes to a ballet class. Last week I had a phone call from one of the mothers, who I know reasonably well (chat to her during the class, she's been round to our house with her dcs for tea a couple of times) asking if dd could go home to her house for tea after this week's class. She said she'd take her back after the class, and could I collect her?

I said yes, and didn't give it another thought. They don't live particularly close but I assumed they would walk or get the bus back to their house(they usually do). Anyhow. Today I asked dd whether they held hands on the way back, and she said "we didn't walk we went in the car". I asked where she'd sat, and she said "in the middle between the two seats for the little girls" I assume she means her friend and her friend's sister's car seats - and on probing it seems that yes, they sat in the child seats and she was in the middle between them on the back seat.

I am pretty outraged and shocked. I would never agree to her travelling this way, and would never offer to transport someone else's child this way, particularly without the parent's permission. If the mother had said "we're driving, do you mind if she goes in the middle", I'd have said "yes, don't worry, I'll come back at the end of the class and drop her off".

So, am I over-reacting? dh is away and I'm working myself up into a frenzy about this. Do I say something to the mother? Or do I just tell myself dd is fine, no harm came of it, and just make sure in the future that if she's invited back they are walking or I drop her off? Or decline future play dates?

I'm feeling very guilty for not asking the question in the first place, and wondering if I've been exceptionally slack in not asking more questions before letting dd go off with someone who, to be honest, I obviously don't know as well as I thought. There's a small possibility dd has got it wrong or is making this up, but she's too young to know that it's dangerous, and I can't see why she wouldn't tell the truth as it's not like her to make something up.

[thisisyesterday]

no, you aren't being unreasonable at all. I wouldn't necessarily say anything to the mum this time, but I would be very wary in future

[nickytwotimes]

What age is your child?

I am quite fastidious about car seats. I would do as you suggest in future - bus or walk home only.
I'm not surprised you are fuming, but it might be best to let it go this once. Sleep on it anyway.

[snickersnack]

Sorry, she's nearly 4. So really very small for no car seat. Illegal, apart from anything else...

[dustystar]

Its not actually illegal for a child to sit in the back in the middle without a car seat. If it had been me though i would have put my own child in the middle and the playdate on a car seat.

[tortoiseshellWasMusicaYearsAgo]

how old is she?

I have to confess, if I have a friend of the children's in the car we can't really fit another car seat in, so I tend to make ds1 go in between the seats (he's 7), and give the guest the carseat, but I don't have too much of a problem with him not being in a carseat for a short journey.

[TheInvisibleManDidIt]

I think legally it's ok for a child to sit in the middle without the seat belt as a 3rd car seat may not fit.

However it's your child, and if you are not comfortable with it then next time she's asked to play, just say you'll drop her off as you're happier with her in her carseat.

fwiw, this wouldn't bother me with ds1, as te seat belt would fit him ok, even though we still have a booster for him, but I wouldn'tbe happy with ds2 as the seatbelt would accross him too high up. (presuming it wasn't a lap only belt)

[dustystar]

Obviously if she's really small the law might be different but if she's big enough to go on a booster then its ok legally.

[FourArms]

Did she perhaps go on a booster seat with no back? She might not have realised then if she normally has a car seat or booster with a back. How old is she?

In the future I'd just say yes, but offer the use of your car seat... 'do you need to borrow her car seat, or do you have a spare?'. I have a spare booster for extra passengers. They don't cost much, and if I didn't have one, I'd ask to borrow the child's seat before travelling without one.

[LongDroopyBoobyLady]

Yes, you should definitely say something, it's unacceptable. You don't have to be confrontational about what you say, after all you're not 100% about the seating arrangements. Something along the lines of "I should've offered you the booster seat last night, how on earth did you manage?" should make the point.

[posieflump]

'if she's big enough to go on a booster then its ok legally. '

can someone find where it states that, as dh is adamant is t illegal

[RomanCandleQueen]

In the Front Seat

The child MUST use the correct child restraint.

In the Rear Seat

The child MUST use the correct restraint, where seat belts are fitted.

There are three exceptions where there is not a child seat available. In each case the child MUST use the adult belt instead. They are -

1. in a licensed taxi or private hire vehicle;
   
   
2. if the child is travelling on a short distance for reason of unexpected necessity;
   
   
3. if there are two occupied child restraints in the rear which prevent the fitment of a third.
   
   In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available.
   
   It is the driver's legal responsibility to ensure that the child is correctly restrained.

[RomanCandleQueen]

Got that link from here

[posieflump]

brilliant, have just shown dh and he has apologised profusely ds (4) is going to someone's house Friday night and dh was muttering about sending him to school with his booster seat

[AuntieMaggie]

OMG why would you do that? It's unsafe and illegal!

[Smithagain]

From the ROSPA website:

"There are three exceptions where there is not a child seat available. In each case the child MUST use the adult belt instead. They are -

1. in a licensed taxi or private hire vehicle;
   
   
2. if the child is travelling on a short distance for reason of unexpected necessity;
   
   
3. if there are two occupied child restraints in the rear which prevent the fitment of a third."
   
   ( www.childcarseats.org.uk/law/index.htm#kids311 )
   
   So she was legal.
   
   To be honest, I think you should have asked about the transport arrangements when she made the offer. But she ought to have checked with you that you were OK with it.
   
   If it was me, I wouldn't have made the offer without having enough child seats to go around, but I know that some of my friends would.

[Smithagain]

Oops - cross posted!

[NellyTheElephant]

I wouldn't be too concerned. It's not illegal and I think it's surely pretty safe? I have had other people's 3+ children in the middle seat in my car before with just adult seat belt, on fairly short trips. With parent's consent as it happens, but I'd never given it much though.

[alphabetsoup]

So there would have been a seat belt albeit no booster seat...on the other hand you said you'd have been happy with a bus journey where there would have been neither.

[RomanCandleQueen]

If I was the other mum, I'd probably have put one of my kids in the middle and put "guest" child in car seat, but either way, as long as your child had a belt on, mum wasn't breaking the law. It was remiss of her not to ask first IMO.

BTW, agree with alphabetsoup - Why do buses not have belts/restraints?

[Wheelybug]

At that age I'd be pretty outraged. My dd is almost 4 (in Jan) but is still too small for a booster seat. A mother took her home the other day and put her in her other daughter's booster seat, reasonably assuming that she would be in a booster. I decided that it wasn't a big deal as dd is almost big enough and it was a short journey and probably safe. However, if someone had put her on the seat with no booster I would have been quite shocked. But I am aware I am quite anal about car seats.

Mind you, I wouldn't say anything - just be more aware next time and avoid the situation.

[onthewarpath]

Romancandlequeen, It is thanks to people like you I love MN. There is always someone with the knowlege who takes the time to give very complete and documented answers.LOL

[RomanCandleQueen]

Aww, shucks!

[Dottoressa]

I would be very unhappy about this. I don't think I'd say anything this time, but if she's invited again, I would say that you'd like her to go, but you'll drop her off yourself (unless they're planning to walk)...

[Simplysally]

It's only recently that the law has changed. I remember putting my 5-yr old niece in the car without a seat or booster in an adult belt and that was perfectly legal then. By contrast, my dd has never been without a seat or booster!

I wouldn't make too big a fuss but make sure next what the arrangements are for transporting your child.

[biryani]

I can't personally understand the fuss about car seats, and object to the "do as I say" form of nannying government we are now expected to endure in the interests of so-called health and safety. Why can't we make up our own minds as to what is "safe" for our own children any more?

(Incidentally, why are taxis exempt from this law? when they are clearly driven by the most careless drivers on the road?)