To think that having a drug free natural child birth does not mean you are a better/ stronger person or have more guts

[Reallytired]

Every childbirth experience is different. I am glad that there are options of intervention like caeseran section, drugs for pain relief. It would be horrendous to live somewhere like Chad where maternal death in childbirth is extremely common.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4459880.stm

People forget that modern intervention means living mothers and babies.

I hate it when women who have had an easy birth experience belittle those who had complications. There are no prizes for putting up with pain.

I think its sad when women are bullied against a medicalised birth by NCT types. Sometimes its the best decision.

[mankymummy]

I had no pain relief, mostly because there was no time and it was so quick. But believe me if it got bad i would have had anything I needed to get through it.

[WayneAteASlob]

don't see how your post and thread title have anything to do with the article.....

[MrsMattie]

Who are these people bullying other women?

Isn't that just a myth?

I have had a c-section and am now hoping for a more 'natural' VBAC. My only motivation is to give my body a chance to do what it more than likely is capable of doing.

I agree that we are lucky that we aren't left to die in the bush (seriously - we are lucky to have intervention where it's needed, the NHS, decent hospitals and trained medical staff etc).

I also think that the c-section rates in this country are ridiculously high and that birth has become horribly overly medicalised. Birth is an amazing and sometimes risky thing - it isn't a terrible, dangerous torture to be endured in most instances.

[simperingbint]

ok, can we not have anotehr NCT types are satan;s spawn please

As a doula, birth educator and member of the NCT, co facilitator of a birth choice group, my ethos is first and foremost the mother;s birth preferences being requested. if she wants a c.s via general anaesthetic, and has made an informed decision to go for that , fine..!

would not be my choice, for many, many reasons, but chacun a son gout.

when you say 'bullied against a medicalised birth' what do you mean? told about the negatives of epidural or c.section or induction?

what we should not forget is that just because intervention is available, it does not have to be used for every woman

and there is a well documented 'cascade of intervention' whereby one intervention or medicalisation increases the risks of further intervention, often ending in c.section or instrumental birth

women need the information to make an informed choice about how to give birth. many i have ocme into contact with have had highly medicalised births whether by choice or not, and want more info about doing it another way.

my first birth was a classic example of cascade of intervention and i did not know i could ask questions, seek a second opinion or refuse certain interventions . i did not know the downsides of the interventions, i had a crappy experience that triggered severe PND

second time round, i made a fully informed choice to have a VBAC and it was a totally different experince

i use my experiences to support other women, never to bully, sometimes people mistake being told something they don;t wnat to hear, with being bullied

[NorthernLurker]

Life saving medical intervention is a good thing. Pain relief according to the mother's pain threashold and wants is a good thing.
A medicalised birth - by which I mean a birth that is distracted from it's natural path by the opinions, fears and convenience of the medical profession is not a good thing and imo it's never likely to be the best decision.

[MrsMattie]

Also, the vast majority of those 'NCT types' want a positive, straightforward birth experience for all women. many of them feel very passionately about it not because they have had an 'easy, quick' birth, but because they have had a horrible, medically managed birth and want to make sure other women are well informed and able to make choices where possible about how to give birth to their own babies.

i know because I am one of them

[MrsMattie]

p.s. my experience was very similar to simperingbint's - cascade of intervention with first birth, felt bullied and cajoled into intervention at every stage, ended up with c-section I'm not sure I needed and developed severe PND. It's a common story.

[lulumama]

better change back to my usual name for this thread ! i was simperingbint !

[shootfromthehip]

I felt a bit like this after the birth by ECS of my first DD, after the most horrendous labour. Then I had a drug free VBAC with my DS in 3 1/2 hrs!!! If I had had this experience the first time round I would have felt very smug and self satisfied as some women do- and to be honest I can understand why- as the whole thing was so straightforward.

My body was not physically any different and neither was my pain threshold. I just had an unlucky experience the first time and without intervention either one or both of us would have died. If you have not had a 'bad' experience then you can't expect people to understand. Some people are just not aware of how difficult and life-threatening birth can be.

[NorthernLurker]

I thought that sounded like you!

[scaredoflove]

All methods of pain relief can lead to a longer, less progressive birth which then can lead to medical intervention and a worse birth experience

Most people aren't 'bullying' for others to go natural for no reason

Of course, everyone has the right to choose the type of birth they want but they should know what risks there are

[Pruners]

Message withdrawn

[Aitch]

where are all these snooty natural birthers?

[lulumama]

yep, NL, i think i 'sound' umistakeable on some subjects !

[NorthernLurker]

[Blu]

Of course it doesn't - it just means that either you had a straightforward / handleable labour, OR you prefer to excercise choice and control in a differnt way.

I AM 'an NCT type' I suppose - and did do everything I could to have a 'natural'birth. BUT mostly because I was terrified of feeling not the one in control, as I thought I would feel in a 'medicalised' birth. I just chose the approach that I felt was most 'me'.

And when I had been pushing, at home in my pool, for 3.5 hours, even i knew that what we needed to do was go to hospitl fo an assisted delivery. Which we did. Obvious decision, lucky thave the availability of excellent obstetric care.

Everyone in our NCT group was totally pragmatic about what they would prefer ideally (ranging from stay-at-home me to 'give me an epidural as soon as I see the faint blue line' friend) and what could happen in any number of circumstances.

It's not a competition, and i haven't found many people making it so.

[mabanana]

A possible link between longer labours and pain relief does not mean that pain relief causes longer labours and complications. It is equally or possibly more likely that women eduring longer,, more complicated labours are in more pain.

[Tortington]

i gave birth to 2 sets of quads all naturally. whilst people think that a home birth is the thing - really its nothng unless you give birth whilst at one with nature. I gave life whilst i was in a field of lavender. my parner rubbed jojoba oil into my vag even the cows nodded ans swayed to my birthing noises. the bees hummed around and there was an aroma - not of lavender as one would expect - but a beautiful aroma of nature, at one with me. just knowing i was great enough for this experience made me feel close - not only to nature- but God. Not God in the conventional sense, but with gia, the creator. i was there with the creator, myself created and being creator.

[lulumama]

think you;ll find it's gaia, custy

[needmorecoffee]

After 3 sections and non-stop sneering over not having given birth I became obsessed with the idea of having a 'natural birth' suported by my natural birth buddies.
Had a natural birth at home which brain damaged dd and all the natural birthers all fucked off.

[Heated]

I've encountered that attitude from a few mws but not from other mothers.

My hospital mw unit's mantra was natural delivery, natural delivery, natural delivery - combined with internecine warfare between the m/w and the consultant team, resulting in patients caught in the middle. There is/was an unofficial policy of "counselling away" 1st time mothers away from epidurals - they have the lowest rate in the region. They had a terrible reputation locally and women were prepared to travel in order not to deliver there. Thankfully, in the last 3 years there has been a change in attitude and a lot of staff changes. My two deliveries - 1st horrendous, 2nd magical - reflect that sea change.

[Heated]

& NMC!

[SarkyandGeorge]

Have you seen the film made with Ricci Lake? I think it's called "The business of being born" and it's basically about how in the US they tend to treat child birth as a business (due to the private health system) where they try to get them in and out as fast as possible using c-sections and drugs to speed up labour. It basically gave the stats on how this intervention was often more harmful than good and how in the US it was actually the opposite. Those who use midwives as opposed to dr's and decided against pain relief were considered to be hippyish.

www.thebusinessofbeingborn.com/

BTW, I also didn't have any meds in labour as there wasn't any time but now that i've done it once I feel like I can do it again. I don't feel superior because of it, I just feel that part of it is the fear of the pain which makes people opt for pain relief rather than the actual pain itself.

[AlistairSim]

I have only met one natural-is-best-all-drugs-are-evil-you-are-damaging-your-baby type mother and she was...bugger, can't think of the right word!
Unfortunately, she was so evangelical? embaressed? that she lied about how her labour/birth went.

It was lunacy!
Really, who would care other than being happy that both she and her baby were fine??

[mabanana]

Was your friend Kate Winslet?