Mumsnet Talk

DD 8 months.

Just back from a week away, so glad to be home!

We shared an over priced hotel room with her.

First night she woke every 2 hours. Second night hourly. After that she decided that she would sleep from 7pm until about 2am (fine) but then that would be it .. !!

We took it in turns to get up with her at 230am and drive her around (!) so that the other one could get some sleep.

She was then grumpy every day because she was tired. We were fractious because we were tired.

We spent a fortune (which we don't have) because the weather was awful so we had to go to things.

Evenings we were often in bed by 9pm (with the TV on silent so as to not wake her).

I guess you learn, never again will I share a hotel room with her! Self catering is the only option.

I know (or think?) that some of you may be critical and say "well you were lucky enough to go on holiday, lucky enough to have a DD/DH etc" but I can't help but feel hard done to, was looking forward to it and frankly it was a disaster!!

Poor you.

Not much else to say really. You live and learn. Did you get to see any interesting places on your trips out and about? Or try any new food and drink? <<trying to find something positive!>>

Holidays will never be the same again. The sort of holiday you envisaged is the one you can only dream about until you can persuade grandparents or trusted friends to care for your dd and you get the chance to have a dd-free weekend (if you're lucky).

know how you feel. we shared a room with ds earlier this year for 2 weeks and for the first week he just didn't settle. The cot provided was too small and he kept waking up.

self catering is definitely the way to go! i came back feeling like i needed another holiday!

oh bless

you will laugh about it in years to come, honest

it was never going to go well, I'm sorry, with a baby in a hotel room

you live and learn

Poor you. Our holiday with our DTs was awful too. We came back utterly exhausted and throughly pissed off, so I sympathise with you.

Hope the next one is better.

I can't believe how stupid we were!!

She sleeps well (ish) at home.

She was also in a forward facing car seat for the first time and she hated it and screamed every time we went anywhere unless i sang "Old MacDonald"!

We had one good day (Monday), the sun shone and we went wine tasing!

Our bags were lost on arrival (but turned up a couple of hours later!)

I thought that we would swim each morning, she would sleep at lunch whilst we had a nice meal and we would sight see in the afternoons, mmmmmmmm

I echo onceinalifetime - holidays are never the same once you have kids - and are rarely relaxing in my experience - still to be enjoyed despite that.

I must admit sharing a room with my kids is never a happy experience.

My tip - hire a cottage - you have space to do your own thing and at whatever time suits you - you can feed yourselves or eat out as you like and you aren't tied to set times.

It will get better

oh the best laid plans

well there'll be no wine tasting next year with a toddler that's for sure

Agree holidays never the same again. We came back this year from holiday cottage and DP and I felt as if it had just been the usual except in a different place -oh but without the home dvd's,toys,etc

lol at cappuccino!

I agree hotels and babies (toddlers/children etc) don't go well together...

Poor you- I remember weeping bitterly over this in the first year of DD1's life. They are sent to fox us, you know. Nothing you ever plan will turn out the way you expect. They will be miserable throughout an expensive trip you have planned meticulously for them, then be filled with joy by the prospect of catching a bus into town to buy milk

I recently had to share a hotel room with both DDs at a family wedding and it was a total disaster. Would never do it out of choice - always self-catering from now on!

You did better than us. Dh and I went to Centerparcs with dd when she was 4mo. We came home after one day.

This year's holiday was also stressful, but better once she acclimatised. We're getting a villa next year.

Self catering for us in the Teapot household. This years holiday was actually extremely relaxing, it has taken until they are 9 and 4 to get there though !

Lots of sympathy, it does improve.

There is light at the end of the tunnel - we just had our first holiday in ten years with no under fives - it was fantastic to holiday sans pushchairs, nappies, tired, grumpy toddlers and to sit enjoying a bottle of wine in the evening while they ran around playing with all the other children.
But I realise this is cold comfort at this stage

When I've used hotel rooms with one baby, I put the baby to sleep in the bathroom - either travel cot in the middle of the room, or just the mattress in the bath. You can sell it as an adventure, the bathroom is generally dark, and you only have to pee quietly, not watch TV quietly.

Oh dear. Sorry it all went a bit pear shaped. Holidays are not quite the relaxing fun fest they were pre-baby, eh? It will get better, though

I do so sympathise.

My DH can never understand why I am so unenthusiastic about our self-catering holidays with small DCs.

I have pointed out till I am blue in the face "how do you fancy your holiday this year being two weeks doing your usual job, with all the same pressures and the same deadlines BUT in a much smaller office, with no phone, no computer, no paper, in short lacking anything that you normally have to make your job any easier?"

He still doesn't get it.

what a disappointment

sorry it went pear shaped.

The best way to ensure you are never disappointed and feel let down is to make no plans and have no expectations of how the holiday will be.

I think that I may use one weeks holiday money and go away for one night to a hotel with a creche!!

OOOh I feel for you! Our first break with our 7 month old (who usually slept through 7 - 7 coincided with her cutting her first teeth, and developing a slight diary allergy...fun, fun, fun!

I can highly recommend THompson Al Fresco/Canvas Holidays/Eurocamp etc. Get yourself a nice mobile home somewhere warm, order in pizza, take a portable DVD player if you want to watch a film occasionally in the evening...and CHILL.

WE have just returned from a week in Italy...bliss!

Oh, apart from dd getting worms and screaming the mobile down for the first 2 nights:

'My itchy bottom, my itchy bottom. MUMMMEEEE'

Twas OK once we got hold of the wormkiller drugs though....

Holidays with v small babies and children are just same childcare in a different place!

It does get better when they're a bit older.

Sadly, YABU. That's what holidays with children are like most of the time.

O.K. I have TOTAl sympathy with you. We went to Bath for a long weekend, for our first trip with ds. Total disaster.
However, I do disgree with many of the posters.
I do think you can holiday like you used to. Its just that it changes slightly. You have to get yuorself in a slightly different mindset. the requirememnts are slightly different. But I DO think it is possible to go on holiday with a toddler and encorporate .... a wine tasting session... or similar, life doesn't need to stop altogether.
AND hotel holidays can work. They have worked for us , many times going on a package, all inclusive. Worked a treat with ds. We too learnt our lesson and always make sure he is in a seperate room. Has never failed.

If you search on MN, there are lots of threads/advice on compromising to get the type of holiday, you ALL want.

Sorry you had a shit time. Beleive us, it happens to us all. But don't give up. You will get it right.

Even going self-catering was pretty knackering with DS last year as he was waking up loads in the night. And it rained...

This year was much nicer, he was rising 2, much more settled, we were more relaxed, no expectations. And we could all crash back at the cottage in the afternoon, happy memories of nap time

But it's still not going to be the relaxing break that it was before he came along, according to my mother you have to wait around 20 yrs for that...

I had 2 weeks in a luxury beach fron villa in an all inclusive resort in Antigua this year with the SmallDragons.

"Bliss!" I hear you cry.

Except BabyDragon (2 1/2) was up at 5am, spent the whole time bolting here and there, ran away had to be retrieved from the beach where she was playing (naked) with another family, ran straight for the pool and had to be fished out by DS2 (twice), didn't sit still at meal times for more than 5 minutes and kept bolting through the restaurant with me sprinting after her in flipflops. DS2 (7) got banned from Kids Club and DS1 (9) got a D&V bug and I spent the whole holiday lugging a 6' inflatable dolphin, a boat, BabyDragon and towels to and from the pool.

Still, at least it was hot and sunny!

Same as Balloonslayer, only this year, when I said "It's like the same job but with crappier facilities" - DH got it! So we did self-cater but we added in a load of restaurant meals so we didn't have to do so much cooking/washing up!

pamelat - I feel your disappointment. Similar happened to us a few years ago. Self-catering in a kid friendly apartment/villa/caravan/tent is the best option until they are old enough for connecting hotel rooms or rooms of their own. Everyone in the same room is just rubbish - there is no escape!

Oh, and BabyDragon screamed for a large proportion of the night flight, mightily p*ssing off all those around us (including first class - bet the didn't get much sleep in their lovely lie flat sleeper seats )

Self catering has worked for us and been a break WHEN:

- we stayed somewhere really lovely, on a beach
- we had food delivered and put away before we got there
- we ate out a lot. ds is 10 and dd is 4 and they can be relied upon to be well behaved and lovely company in restaurants now
- we let them stay up late and they got up late. Ds will also get up with dd now nad let us lie in a bit so it IS a break.

PMSL at Soupy! What did he do to get 'banned' from kids club?

I still remember as a nightmare a weekend at those "luxury family friendly hotels" with 15 months old ds. He used to wake up very early. He was starting to walk and didn't stop moving for a second. I was pg with dd and had morning sickness, so the lovely restaurant was totally wasted on me. We were surrounded by softly spoken middle class families. I eavesdropped a father explaining British colonialism to his 5 yr old son. We went with 2 friends who felt really smug with their lovely (not moving) 4 months old dd.

A nightmare.

Loving the banning from Kids club. Ha ha. Do tell.

We went to a cottage in Wales with friends when dd was 1 ish. It was HELL because

she didn't sleep and when she woke, so would the other 6 children
there was only one bathroom for 5 adults and 6 children
it was freezing
friends smaller 2yos kept bopping dd on the head so we couldn't leave her anywhere (meaning one of us had to be in the room with her at all times)

Hell on earth.

We went to a studio flat in Switzerland when dd was about 14mo - it was ridiculous - dd took over an hour to go to sleep every night and we had to sit in the dark and quiet until she did. Often we would think she was asleep and venture to the loo or attempt to put the telly on and... WWWAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH she would wake up. Every night. It was a form of torture.

Ever since then we have gone somewhere where she has her own room, SC in caravans and chalets.

Our first holiday with ds1 was also awful...he was 9 months old and we booked the same kind of holiday we'd have had pre-kids - self catering in Majorca, in a little town miles from anywhere...
It was exhausting! He slept badly, we had nothing to do in the evenings, he didn't eat well and we couldn't find the right kinds of food in the supermarket, restaurant hours didn't fit with his needs for sleep etc etc
I came home and the first hting I did was start surfing the internet for 'child-friendly holidays' - and found mumsnet in the process!
I wish I could tell you it gets easier, but I'm still making mistakes 6 years later We've probably had about 3 or 4 holidays in total that have been relaxing.

Nothing major really. He lost at a game of cards and started throwing things about. Apparently. Thankfully it was nearly the last day!

aaah
poor you it sounds awful!
I can't bear sharing a room with my dd
you'll know for next time...self-catering/cottage def the way forward
oh, and make sure you start off with very low expectations-that way if you enjoy any of your holiday it'll be a bonus

to the op
you were being unreasobalbe to expect to have a lovley holiday, with the plans that you had made. very very few babies will respond well to the change in environment and routine easily enough to enable there parents to enjoy themselves in the way they used to pre kids.
we took our 9 month old ds with us on an extended trip accross two countries, and about ten differnet cities. dh was with me for only the first two weeks. it was lovely because we could be flexible. had i still been breastfeeding, it would have been easier still. but flexibility was the key.

Sleeping arrangements definitely very important. And I never travel anywhere without taking blackout material these days!
Self catering is ok, it does give you more space, but its nice not to have to cook all the time. Our best holidays have either been in swanky hotels, or in places where we can afford to eat out every night. Oh, and nice weather helps a lot.

This is not a helpful thread.

We are going away next week for a one week break. Only to a place which is about an hour and a half away and self catering so I am trying to minimise disruption but I am NOT looking forward to it. Even this was a compromise as DH wanted us to go to Spain and I refused. I can't get it out of my head that it will be the same routine and drudge but with worse facilities than home and none of Ds's friends!

I'm being a bit PFB I know as DS has just turned 2 but he is VERY particular about his routine and he is a very fussy feeder (which is a whole other thread) which means us having to plan and take a load of frozen meals (which pisses me off and brings home my worries about his eating) and I could really do without it all!

BUT, we have not been away since well before DS was born and we have to take a baby step don't we?!

Tell me it will be ok!! (Not shooting for relaxing or fun you understand, just survivable without gritted teeth!)

AIBU to really miss the fact that we used to have fab hols and were really adventerous travellers?!

Disagree with everyone.

It must be just me and dh (and ds) then, but we have had great holidays, right from the start. Apart from the Bath fiasco.
I will try and analyse for you, why they were so good. But I tell you, we have been on nearly 10 holidays in the last nearly 5 years, and they have all be FABAROONEY. Will try and detail for you why. Once I have worked it out myself.

Surely I am not the only Mn'er who manages successful holidays with little ones ?

We have stayed away with DS for one night in a hotel (not our wishes - farkin family thing) and hardly dared breathe all night. DS screamed the place down as he did not want to fall asleep in a strange place, took ages to settle, thenwoke in the night, chatted to us for a while and copied DH snoring. We were all KNACKERED the next day.

Lovely weekend

Dh & I had a good holiday with an 11mo DS.. but it was in our own caravan where we'd taken him for weekends and we were familiar with the area and the facilities.

Aww, feel v sorry for you pamelat. What a waste of a holiday. Just chalk it up to experience and choose more wisely next time.

Sounds familiar! Our first holiday with ds was an expensive disaster too. We rented a villa in Italy, with visions of swimming in the pool and relaxing together, putting ds to bed then enjoying gorgeous Italian food and BBQ with wine in the garden in the evenings.....

The weather was awful.
There was a dead mouse in the pool.
The neighbours had about 12 cats so there was sh** all over the garden (ds was at crawling stage).
There were no nice food shops anywhere.
Ds woke at 4.30am every day (even tho in own room) and we took it in turns to get up with him and then be the one falling asleep over tuna pasta at 8pm...

We were soo happy to come home!

Several (better!)holidays later i'm still not sure what the answer is (esp whether self catering is better or not-think it is if you have fussy eaters and decent food shops nearby) but holidays are never as relaxing , that's for sure!

Oblomov, I don't think that the holidays are bad, it's just that you have to change your expectations. a holiday with small children is never going to be the same as a holiday without small children.

Agree, they're not bad, they're just different.

bottom line - you are responsible for all the needs of your kids while on holiday - that isn't a recipe for relaxing.

Doesn't mean it can't be fun - but unlikely to be relaxing (I usually come back feeling exhausted).

Agree with Soupy. We have compromised by bringing my mum on hols so that we still get our nights out. Luckily my mother worships the sun so is very happy to come!

Haven't read the whole thread, but I'm sure I won't be the only one recommending avoiding hotels with babies like the PLAGUE.

Self catering is MUCH better, as long as there is a seperate bedroom and living area. You get much more room to move around, freedom to eat meals when and where you like. Usually more books/toys/entertainment facilities. AND a fridge to keep your wine baby bottles cool

taking your mum on holiday - hmm - been there - done that - sort of worked (well worked for kids and mum anyway !).

Still not relaxing (IME)

It could be worse!
You could be going to India for three months with an 18 month old, and live with a fridge as the only mod con!

I'm waiting oblomov
Maybe you're one of these people who can survive ok with broken nights and not much sleep? Or perhaps you're just much younger than me and have loads of energy??

Elf, the thread is telling you about our worst experiences. Try to keep in mind, most of us have fab experiences in between!

Take the step. You'll feel better for having chucked it in the back of the car.

Fussy eating and taking your own meals - funny things happen to fussy eaters on holiday - many of them branch out and try different things! The change of environment helps! You never know, he might come back having added some new foods to his list of acceptable things.

Finally, change your expectations RIGHT NOW! Yes, same drudge/different place but it's minimised and DH is there to help out far more than usual. S'not like he'll have owt else to do!

Don't let your DS's fussy eating pen you in. It's a holiday - get out and about and let him eat shit food for a week. A plate of chips every night for 7 days is NOT going to make him obese. Relax ALL eating rules and see food as just a means to an end - not the point of each day!

Have a lovely time

Elffriend, get a campervan!

We spent 2 nights in a hotel with dd aged 5 months and vowed not to do it again. Agree with everyone who said self-catering - it's more work but much more relaxing (paradoxically). But I think in general holidays are just more of the same but in a different place until the children are quite a lot older.

Also, and I know I'm in the minority on MN here - go away with other people with children. We've only had good experiences so far, and it means there's usually someone else up first thing, you can share meals/washing etc so it's not 24/7 and the children are entertained by someone other than you. It certainly makes it more fun. Depends who you go with I suppose - most of our friends have children the same age and share our outlook on life and parenting. Wouldn't go away with someone I suspected didn't...

The main thing to remember when planning a holiday with a small child is to expect extra vomit.

We ended up wishing we had stayed home in London, gone out every day doing fun family stuff and getting a babysitter every night so we could go out to nice restaurants! Would have been cheaper and definitely more fun than that particular week!

Agree that you need to adjust your expectations and consider how your child adjusts to different places/sharing a room etc. It definitely gets better as children get older, we just had a fab holiday in the alps (ds now 3 and dd 3 mths) having lots of picnics and eating in child friendly creperies/pizzerias or cooking in our apartment. Ds had a ball in the fresh air and sunshine every day and there was so much for him to do there he was exhausted at the end of each day so we all slept well, which was the best part for me! AND we even managed a bit of wine tasting in Chablis on the way back !

You are not alone Oblomov. We have nice holidays. The first time we stayed in a hotel room the children were 17 months and newborn.

Bring the attitude that this is going to be a good holiday, that you are here to see new things, make new friends, and that no way are you going to be able to have the same routine that you have at home.

Oh we've had fabulous holidays too. They've still not been the same as the fabulous holidays we had before children but [shrug].

You get to build sandcastles again without looking like a tw*t for a start. Both DSs and DD have been thrilled by the large sand Tweenie Shoes I've built over their real feet and we mad a fab sand plane for them all to sit in this year. You do spend a lot of time rubbing in sun cream though

oh dear, poor you

sympathies

it dawned on us early on that sharing a room just doesn't work (for us)

my tips:

- don't go on holiday (only partly joking)
- if you do, get AS MANY ROOMS AS POSSIBLE
- take bin bags for darkening rooms
- if necessary, put the baby in the bathroom (er, in a cot first)

oh - and meant to say earlier - it is really worth the effort - because we always find our kids really blossom when they have been away - it really expands their horizons and their minds.

And it gets better - my youngest are 5 now - and the only tough thing still is getting them to go to sleep for the first few days.

And go for a fortnight - hopefully they settle by halfway through the first week and then you still have a decent enough time to enjoy - and 2 weeks away makes the hassle of travelling almost worth it

Soupy and www, I did say that. In my first post. I said, it only takes a slight midset alteration. That was all.

Elliot , you may be waiting some time. I am afraid I am still unable to pinpoint quite what we do/did that made it o.k.
But please rest assured that, none of the things you said about me are try. I am Oblomov, after all. Like my namesake. I , as a diabetic, sleep for england, and at 35, have the energy of a 50 year old. So no, that doesn't apply.

I will keep working on coming up with pinpointers, as to why our holidays have always been good.

yes agree wiht all
we toolk a cralwer to menorca
too hot to crawl on pavving slabs
fakrin mare

soupy what DID ds2 do?!!!

bath a very good idea for babies cot

I have thought of it
I have a very easy child.
Dh and I could have fun in a phone box. We have as much fun on an all inclusive , expensive holiday in Ibiza, as we did on on Sun holiday £9.50 in Devon.

This is not helping, is it ?

Don't worry. You will all get your come-uppance, when my DEVIL CHILD* Ds2, arrives in a few weeks.

Watch me retract everything I have EVER said on MN.

Yes, self catering the only way, or else an ajoining room (Hilton have quite a good policty on ajoining rooms for kids under, I think, 14 - you get second room cheaper). At least with an ajoining room you can watch TV and get room service. But we only use hotels for one or two nights if visiting relatives who can't accommodate us etc.

For Hols, cottages, condos etc. Although on our recent hol the room we had assigned for our DS was so freezing cold with aircon, we ended up with him in with us and has similar nightmare with waking, especially cos we were in the US and he was all messed up with jet lag - sigh.

DD is 3 now, and that's the age I think where holidays start to become more fun and easier. She doesn't need to sleep in the day, she gets more out of stuff - travels better etc. I do feel for you though.

we had a lovely holiday with 14mo DD. I wonder if our low expectations were the key .

we have made a conscious decision to reduce the number of holidays we have, in order to afford a bigger, better-equipped cottage (enough bedrooms, bathrooms, garden toys for DD, DVD player for us).

we also picked an area that whilst very rural, was within an hour of a city offering lots of indoor options for days out.

Cod, I said further down: Nothing major really. He lost at a game of cards and started throwing things about. Apparently.

Not sure why they felt the need to ban him though.

I did a MN houseswap thread over the summer (but haven't braved it myself yet!)

I think it is a VV good idea for people with babies though.

We plan to only go on holiday when we can afford either:

- a hotel with childcare
- to be able to afford to pay someone to come with us to help
- self-catering in the UK (oh, about as expensive as the other options if you want to go somewhere that doesn't have nylon sheets and blood stains on the carpet)

Oblomov, I take it then that you do actually manage to sleep on holiday?
I think that may be it

My holidays would just be soooo much more bearable if we didn't get woken up by ds2 at silly o'clock.

I do have fun times too, I really love being on the beach with the kids. But we do have to spend a lot of time keeping everyone happy - and that aspect is getting harder as they have more fixed ideas. We have spent a lot of time this year sitting untangling ds1's fishing line for the nth time

At least its not just us then!! Will show my DH this thread when he gets home as I think he was worried that it meant we were rubbish parents and an incompatabile couple!!

I did suggest separate holidays next year! We could possibly have a long weekend each without DD ..... but we want to enjoy our time has a family.

Hopefully (I can kid myself ) it will be easier once she can talk and I can at least try to reason with or bribe her!

Thanks all.

Having spoken to my parents today, they have said that they would have loved to have come with us but didn't want to "intefere", anyone can interfere as much as they like at 230am by my book!

Elliot, 'fraid so.
Ds - I tell ya, that kid eats anything and sleeps for england. Lord knows where he gets those characteristics from

Not unreasonable but maybe unrealistic

That's life with a baby innit!

It does get easier though.

been away from the thread (actualy working on the blessed job search ).

Dunno if Doodle2U is still about but, if you are, thanks for the response. I'm sure it will be better than my fears so can't be all bad!

Trouble with the fussy eating is that I actually would not mind him eating crap for a week! He takes a VERY dim view of finger foods generally - took us ages to get him to accept textures! But you may be right about change of environment etc.

Might see if there's a MacDonalds nearby....



Anyway am armed with extra long travel cot and portable blackout blinds.

Will be taking wine.

Elffriend - am sure you will have a much better time for us. I think we suffered from a lack of planning and naive expectations! You'll be fine.

we took ds3 aged 8 months round iceland (the country not the shop) for 12 days in a 4x4 staying in a different place (b&b type)every night. (Also took ds1&3 )

He was fine, slept a lot, crawled everywhere and enjoyed the snow.

The only problem we have with him now he is older is a tendency to vomit in the car at random moments. We have just been to germany and switzerland and managed 2 nights while on the move in hotels.
When he won't settle to sleep in a hotel i tend to read a book in the bath and let dh get on with it!

Pamelat, yes maybe that was your only error. I think, subconsciuously, I had given ALOT of thought as to what kind of holiday dh, ds and I needed. What some of our essential requirements were.
And I knew that , for example on an all inclusive holiday where snacks were REALLY available 24/7, this would keep ds, who was very young at the time , and needed to be fed, when he needed to be fed, (but mainly dh, who also wants to eat, when he wants to eat) happy.
I think it is things like this make the REAL difference.

Holidays and small children are just bad. really. We lived for travelling and holidays before children, we thought we absolutely needed many months a year off work in exotic places, plus lots of weekends away.

as other have said, it's just childcare in a different setting (without all the child-friendly things you've got set up at home).

And now, with 3 small children, we hardly bother going away. it was perhaps the biggest disappointment of having children, how unrelaxing holidays are. There are many compensations in life for having children, but holidays aren't included there.

When work colleagues ask me if I had a "relaxing" break I want to hit them.

I don't think holidays with dcs are not bad just different. It does depend on what you're used to - if your idea of a holiday is:

- loads of sleep
- loads of sex
- loads quite a bit of alcohol
- reading books/magazines
- sunbathing
- lying down for at least 30 seconds
- enjoying romantic meals
- sightseeing
- peace
- relaxation
- making the most of the hotel facilities like bar, spa, bathroom even

then it is indeed a bit of a shock

not bad, I mean bad

Well we've always enjoyed holidays with our DCs but they were utterly unlike the holidays we had pre-DCs.

We only do hotels with the children for one or two nights - so only weekends away. The issue for us is that we were never prepared to leave them in a room and go out for dinner or whatever so not relaxing for us. Even the nicest hotel rooms get a bit claustrophobic.

We've always (with only one exception) self-catered for longer holidays and ensured that we eat out for at least one meal a day. Breakfast is always easy, so we would go out for lunch or dinner. We don't do kids clubs either, so it is a bit exhausting, and sometimes you do end up longing for them to go to bed, but they've always been fun.

We do occasionally have fun on our holidays. But I can't escape the fact that our everyday life at home is less tiring and more relaxing than our "holidays".

Other things that have helped us on holiday include:

- ear plugs
- co-sleeping
- only going for a week
- taking turns to get up and out with the kids to let partner have a lie in
- breaking the routine and taking kids out late - little ones sleeping in pushchair, older ones love it

I'm with fennel on this one.
Its the fact that its just bloody hard work and with less sleep than at home. The sleep thing is a biggie. Its just not much fun doing anything in a fuzz of sleep deprivation.

Oh, and did I mention I would like to sleep on my holiday

My prekids holidays weren't anything like onceinalifetimes list. Usually they involved self catering (but eating out a lot) and walking in beautiful places. In theory we should be able to do that with the kids. I suppose it is the downtime element that is missing, isn't it? That and the idea that you can please yourself. Both those are out of the window.

We ever stay in a hotel with the kids - it is pointless - imagine how nice it would have been is your DD were being a horror for one of you at least to be able to sleep whilst the other went and watched TV and looked after her in the sitting room?

DD thinks hotels are only for grown ups now - she hasn't ever stayed in one and they have some sort of mystical quality for her like chewing gum (which you aren't allowed until you can drive a car!)

ONE NIGHT IN HOTEL WITH DP with children palmed off with uncles/grandparents was must more of a 'break' than two weeks in Spain with the children

agree with MP

we had lots of loevly hols when ours were babies

luxury 5* cottage in cornwall

they went to bed at 7.

we ate nice food, drank good wine and relaxed

Ha Ha Ha- glad to see I'm not alone in hating hols with the kids. Took DD on holiday at 4 1/2 mths- bloody terrible, 18mths utterly terrible- included us getting ALL of our stuff stolen except pram- thanks. Again 2 1/2 etc, etc, etc. Any time we have done hotels it has been shocking. Self catering is much better but ditto the sleep issues.

Am just back from 2 weeks in Spain with DD and DS who both took alternate nights in getting up and was also woken EVERY night at 4.30am by other people coming home for work- just for good measure. Accept that hols will never be the same again. You will spend a terrific amount of money making yourself miserable abroad but at least will come back with a tan. Or you will spend a terrific amount of money making your self miserable without a tan. Either way you will be skint, miserable and knackered. Until they are old enough to leave home.

One of our solutions has been to abandon foreign holidays, or expensive holidays, and just go camping in the UK. the good bit is that if you have a good time, great (and we do OK at camping, we all like it). But if it's crap, at least you haven't spent a fortune to have a miserable time.

Holidays are undoubtedly different, but apart from a couple of times, we haven't had total nightmares. DS2 at 8 months was ghastly - jusst like OP's problem (he screamed a lot at night we were worried he'd wake DS1 and the grandparents who were supposed to help us out but were useless. We were knackered.)

On the brighter side, we usually go SC to same place in French Alps. It is perfect for kids. It is a long drive, but we stop half way in a brilliant B&B near Avallon. Can you believe 93 Euro for 2 separate fantastic bedrooms in recently renovated house which includes 4 course meals for all and a fab breakfast. Also very kiddy friendly. French motorway services are good for kids (lots of play areas + food ok and not so expensive as English ones).

I worry about hotels with small children. I know some people who wpent 5 days in a hotel with kids going to bed at 7pm and them hiding out in the loo reading books until their bedtime. Mad or what??

most rticky ones were hptel with 14 month old but even so i reckoned it was just as hard work as at home but with dh there ft and sun so i didint mind.

i'm obviously very late to this thread. We went on hols when DD2 was 9 months. It was a nightmare. She cried from what felt like the minute we got to the apartment, until the day we left, she woke through the night and arose at 5 am every morning when I had to wander around Lanzarote in the dark to try and get her to sleep. It was horrendous. Every holiday since then though (she's now 3) has been great. We've got 2 DDs and always try and stay in 2 bed apartment.

Mumof222boys - details of wonderful french B&B please. Do your boys have completely separate rooms? How old are they?

www.aupredupoirier.com

They had 2 sep bedrooms - one for me and DH and one for them, a hall and sep bath and sep loo. Just up stairs from where we ate, so the squawk box worked ok. Boys have sep bedrooms at home but not on holiday, but they were fine, luckily! We've stayed there a couple of times and are about to book again for just after Xmas, and have recommended it to others. They don't speak a lot of English, but are so friendly!

PS That last post was for Elliot!

Perhaps next year you could try self-catering www.childfriendlycottages.co.uk

Theyre not too expensive and already have everything you could need like steralisers, cots, prams, toys, highchairs etc so you don't need to drag the whole house with you!

I'm off to one of the cottages next week so fingers crossed!

Our holiday this year with DS (4.9) and DD (2.11) was the best we have had with them, which was a nice treat .

We stayed in a Keycamp campsite in France, in a mobile home with three bedrooms. I think for us that the more bedrooms, the better. I can't imagine staying in a hotel for longer than a couple of nights; everyone would go mad.

It helped that DS was old enough for and enjoyed going to the kidsclub (2.5 hours a day) so one person could have some time off knowing the other one only had one child to look after.

Somehow shifting children's sleep times so they went to bed about 10 and woke up at 8:30 at the earliest . This was probably the best part .

Even managed some peaceful meal time when DD and DS were at evening kids club run by campsite, in a room visable from our table.

We didn't travel too far when we were at the campsite, took things at DS and DD's pace and all of us were happy nearly all the time. Am hoping to repeat next year.

Our first holiday with DS when he was 7 months was fairly dismal. It was wet and did feel like the same old same old just in a different place.

top tips for best (hot, sunny) holidays with young children:

Self-catering or aparthotel with flexible meal-times
Close to beach or with a pool
get up early, go to beach before sun too hot
have leisurely long lunch with somewhere kids can play safely in the shade
Take a siesta until 4-5pm then go back to beach until late.
The kids will not be tired, have lots of fun without getting too hot and you can go out late in the evening.

And don't worry about them only eating chicken kebabs for a whole week!

Many thanks!!!

our first holiday to jersey in a hotel for a wedding with my dt's aged 5mo was not great but not shite either. First few nights we stopped in to keep them in their usual routine, but then we decided we should join our friends for meals out, we would bath the boys at usual time, get them in their jim jams, bottle of milk then in the buggy to get to restuarant - they would then sleep til about 10/11 maybe, while we ate, get back to hotel, another bottle and into cots to sleep. They were up early, but would chuck one baby to DH to feed, I would feed one, back in cots for maybe a bit more sleep, then down to breakfast.

Holidaying with friends/family for us is a must, can share the childcare, you all get a bit of downtime, can share who gets up in the morning. We first went away agin after jersey when dt's were nearly 2 to portugal with in laws to a villa. Took boys a while to settle into the new routine, but once they did they were fine, we went last year too and going again this year (next week in fact) and really looking forward to it. They are nearly 4 now and they can express themselves and keep telling me how excited they are and how they going to swim every day....my idea of a holiday has changed now basically, yes i still like to lie in the sun and eat good food and enjoy the odd bottle glass of wine, but i know it won't be everyday.

someone mentioned, I think it was the OP, about seperate holidays for her and DH - we also do this, DH went to Austria ski-ing this year (we went with DT's last year, now that WAS a disaster, never again!) and i went to Portugal. We both came back chilled and ready for life with two full on 3yo boys!

Tried the meal out thing (Neeerly3). We went to a lovely restaurant near the harbour, she woke up just as a food arrived. I took her outside in the pram to try to get her back to sleep, half an hour later I had succeeded (DH had eaten his food, mine was on the cold side).

On getting back to the hotel she re woke and cried for 2 hours.

To be fair, I can see 2 teeth peeping through today so maybe that played a part in the fiasco too (she doesn't have any teeth yet).

When DS1 was almost 2 I was in France with my Dad who was v keen to have a posh lunch - we were staying in a horrible place and dinner wasn't up to much. I was pregnant so he pushed DS1 up and down hill for about an hour till he fell asleep. Ran into resturant, got a table and started eating. We were well into main course by the time he woke and was pretty civilised. My Dad was stressing that he'd let the side down, as there was an impecably dressed and behaved 4 year old at next table with Grand Maman and elderly aunt. All went well and DS was brilliant, but best thing was when little girl lost in and wallopped her granny.

Whether I'd do it with 2 boys now...not so sure!

I think it would have been easier if conditions weren't monsoon like. I didn't fancy being outdoors but DD hates indoors!

Am looking at http://www.childfriendlycottages.co.uk/ and they look fab. Not looked at prices yet though!

Self-catering. In Britain, so you can load the car with toys. I refuse to go anywhere that isn't at least as comfortable at home. Has to have a dishwasher, microwave, powershower, kingsize-bed, cbeebies or dvd player, be safe for roaming toddlers, etc!

This year's had a playground immediately outside the backdoor. So I could post dd (6) and ds1 (3) outside, put ds2 (8mo) to bed in his own travel cot (we got him used to it before the holiday) and put my feet up (looking out of the window at dd&ds1). Fab. Beach just up the road to wear them all out so we could get them to bed early. And then there were all sorts of takeaway places round the corner so we could have a nice meal that I didn't have to cook, in the evening.

Admittedly this is not the kind of holiday I'd have done before kids, and I'm glad I didn't know that it was the kind of holiday I was going to be having for the next decade-and-a-half, but still, it was fun.

Fully sympathetic. Just back from Greece with DDs 1 & 3 and it was pants. Hotel too lovely so always tense that my wild children were breaking something (usually accurate). I had thought eating in hotel and not cooking would be a rest, but I discovered that thanking the waiter 15 times for picking up dd2's fork / bread roll / smashed glass made me more tense than domestic drudgery. I previously thought my children were just spirited, but actually they were the worst behaved in the resort. My new rule of thumb - the baboon test. If I couldn't face going there with a baboon, don't go with my children. Husband is in dog house as convinced me to go abroad instead of Cornwall. Never EVER again!