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AIBU?

Well, it's my Mother, but potential benefit fraud....

62 replies

Lizzylou · 04/06/2008 20:34

My Mother rang me in a state last night. It seems that my brother who is moving in with his partner, is not going to declare that he is living there so that his girlfriend can keep her benefits (she has a daughter). I think that the benefits will only be Council tax and tax credits as girlfriend works part time and owns her own home (with a mortgage).

My Mom is devastated, she has never claimed any benefits in her life, let alone fraudulently, (she has been lucky, but did struggle as a single Mom to us when we were younger) so this is so alien to her. As she gets older, Mom is also getting a tad more "Daily Mail" and kept going on that it was morally wrong and that my Brother would get imprisoned for fraud (she is dramatic).

When Mom asked my Brother about it and explained she was worried, he got very defensive and upset Mom by being short with her.

So what do I do? My brother is 32 and has been a bit "Peter Pan" and has had a lot of support from his family, we were all very pleased that he found someone so right for him. They seem very happy and he adores her child. I know my Mom is "Old school" but are her fears unfounded? How do I approach this, if at all?
TIA, and thanks for reading all this waffle!

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joyfulspike · 04/06/2008 20:37

This sort of thing drives me absolutely up the farking wall.

I wouldn't say anything, but once he's moved in I'd notify the tax credits and council tax people about it. You can do it anonymously.

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Lizzylou · 04/06/2008 20:38

Really? You'd rat on your brother?

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Lazylou · 04/06/2008 20:39

I got caught for similar and although they don't rush you straight to prison, it isn't a pleasant experience and one that I have avoided going through again. By that, I mean I have not claimed benefits since although I know I am entitled to them. I just find the whole benefits thing scary now and I'm frightened that things could go wrong.

My situation was slightly different in that I ws working whilst claiming but not doing it for the money if that makes sense? Most of the jobs I did, whilst training to be a nursery nurse, I asked to work in exchange for DD's fees, so working for no money just DD's place in the nursery.

I was fined and made to pay back all the overpayments I had received. It was about 5 months worth in total. It amounted to almost £4000 in overpayments. To avoid going to court, I was then ordered to pay another £700. I couldn't afford to go to court and have the fraud thing show up on my CRB checks because then I would not be able to get a job at all.

It is tricky and your DB needs to be careful.

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Freckle · 04/06/2008 20:40

I don't know why thinking benefit fraud is morally wrong makes you "Daily Mail" . It is morally wrong and also can lead to a criminal record. Your brother and his g/f are being idiots.

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theangelshavethephonebox · 04/06/2008 20:41

It would be kinder to rat on them as soon as they move in together than let them claim fraudulently for months or years and then get caught - the longer it goes on the more likely they will have to pay back a huge overpayment and they might be prosecuted.

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Lizzylou · 04/06/2008 20:43

Thanks Lazylou.
I am shocked and concerned, but know my brother, he doesn't like "advice" but also know my Mom may not have been very tactful.
Freckle, I actually meant that my Mom was a bit "Daily Mail" about other things, not benefit fraud, it's not something we'd ever discussed before, tbh.

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Lizzylou · 04/06/2008 20:45

How likely is it that they'd get prosecuted?
They both have social work type jobs, would they get sacked if caught, even if they didn't get prosecuted?
Just trying to build my argument to him.

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joyfulspike · 04/06/2008 20:46

I've ratted on my mum, brother, sister and various other relatives.

As far as I'm concerned, if you are knowingly claiming benefits you are not entitled to then you are committing fraud and you deserve all you get.

I am VERY militant about this and have a number of relatives who have no problem whatsoever creaming as much benefit as possible. They give genuine lone parents or other people on benefits a bad name. I'll stop now before I really wind myself up!

Having said that, sorry to hear about your situation Lazylou, it doesn't sound right that you got slammed when you weren't financially benefitting.

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NiceShoes · 04/06/2008 20:47

is this really about the benefits claim?or is their other underlying unresolved issues/scores you are trying to settle?

why cant you just butt out turn a blind eye

it is his risk to take?

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OverMyDeadBody · 04/06/2008 20:50

Surely it's not worth the risk though? If they love each other enough to move in together they should ccept that they will have to forfit the benefits and pay themselves. Have they thought this through? At some stage the tax office will find out, and then at the very least they'll have to pay all the money back.

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Lizzylou · 04/06/2008 20:50

Niceshoes, I am concerned about my brother and my Mom, who lives alone and was in tears down the phone to me last night. My brother has had a very rough few years and has just seemed to get himself on track, I'd hate anything to ruin his happiness now.
What other agenda would I possibly have?

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OverMyDeadBody · 04/06/2008 20:52

Also, if your brother is living there, then he should be paying council tax, presumably he works and has the money? In which case he is just being selfish. Everyone pays copuncil tax, why should he get away with not? If everyone scammed the system in this way then where would we be?

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llareggub · 04/06/2008 20:56

If they are prosecuted, the conviction will show up on CRB checks which potentially will have a bearing on their ability to obtain future social work posts. You don't say whether they work in Social Services or not but if they do, potentially they are defrauding their employer as well. Gee, that'll go down well.

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ajandjjmum · 04/06/2008 20:57

NiceShoes
It's loads of people turning blind eyes that makes benefit fraud so lucrative for some - and puts such a shadow over everyone who claims, even when it is totally genuine.

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bluefox · 04/06/2008 20:57

Did your brother live with your mum? Just the two of them? Because this is now going to affect your mum - she will not be able to claim the 25% reduction in council tax as a one person household as he is still supposed to be with her. Someone please correct me if I am wrong about this.

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Lizzylou · 04/06/2008 20:59

It's worse than I thought, then.
See, I told my Mom that he wouldn't get prosecuted, that she'd just get her benefits stopped and that she shouldn't worry, she can't expect him to have her morals, he's 32 so old enough to make his own decisions etc etc etc. I just think my Mom shouldn't have any more on her plate.

But I'm really worried for them and think I'll have to say something (I don't agree with them defrauding the system at all).

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Lizzylou · 04/06/2008 21:01

Bluefox, no, my brother lived alone, but is going to say that he is living at my Fathers (which he did do before he rented this last flat 6mths ago).

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Jackstini · 04/06/2008 21:02

I think you could use the reason to him that if they lie to keep their benefits, your Mum does not get hers and that is not fair.
Maybe he hasn't realised this?

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Jackstini · 04/06/2008 21:02

So your Father misses out on council tax reduction then?

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Lizzylou · 04/06/2008 21:03

NO, he has another family (sorry, this is all very complicated).

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bluefox · 04/06/2008 21:05

Lizzylou - then your Father will lose his 25% reduction - assuming he is currently living alone.

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bluefox · 04/06/2008 21:05

Sorry - crossed posts!

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Jackstini · 04/06/2008 21:07

It does sound complex!
Maybe ask him is it fair to expect his family to lie for him if it is upsetting your Mum this much?

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Rachmumoftwo · 04/06/2008 21:07

While I don't agree with benefit fraud, I honestly don't know if I could report my own family for it. I hope I am never in that situation. I think I would make my feelings clear, tell them the risks and implications of what they are doing, and if they chose to go ahead with it, that is their decision. If your mum is so against it, she could refuse to let him use her address.

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Lizzylou · 04/06/2008 21:07

Sorry, meant that my Dad has another family, so won't lose anything.
Llareggub, they both work in social work type roles, roles where they'd be CRB checked.

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