To be furious that a cashier at supermarket told me off for DD eating a bite of an apple...

(665 Posts)
pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 14:19:11

... which I paid for?

Apparently, it is paid for by weight, so could I not let her do it in future? No please. Nothing else.

She is 23 months old. So charge me the extra f**king half pence then tosser!!!

It came to 21p. She had taken two 23 month old sized bites. Which is why I was buying it in the first place!

angry angry

alicet Sun 01-Jun-08 14:21:28

If it is paid for by weight then actually YABU and should wait until it's been weighed.

However I'm guessing you didn't realise this and perhaps she could have politely explained why not to do this and not 'told you off'

beaniesteve Sun 01-Jun-08 14:21:51

hmmm... If it's paid for by weight and someone eats some of it before it's weighed then it could be classed as theft, but it seems a bit rude to make an issue over small bites.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 14:23:50

alicecat - my DD picked it up took two bites from it, so I went over to pay for it.

What should I do, tie her up outside while I do my shopping in case she touches something?!!

The amount she had eaten was so small, it was probably not even half pence. The whole apple cost 21p.

FFS. I am still furious. Even if I am being unreasonable.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 14:25:43

Beanie - its not theft if a minor aged 23 months takes it. Unless it is clear the adult enticed/encouraged them to do so.

If I was going to get her to steal something, it would not a bite of an apple! Unless it was a Touch wink grin

FrannyandZooey Sun 01-Jun-08 14:26:04

well in terms of rules no she shouldn't have done it
but agree it is jobsworth and petty for anyone to mention it

beaniesteve Sun 01-Jun-08 14:26:59

Well, wasn't suggesting you let her, sounds like shez grabbed it, bit it and so you bought it. They could have been more polite about it I guess.

Kimi Sun 01-Jun-08 14:27:36

I remember taking DS1 shopping as a 2 year old and he wanted a banana so I got one went and paid for it got a receipt and let him eat it as we shopped, one of the staff came up and started on about letting him eat food I had not paid for and that it was theft blah blah at the top of her voice in front of other people in the store. I took great pleasure in showing her the reciept and telling her where to go, I hate jobsworths, and it is always the ones with the dull jobs that are the worst.

misdee Sun 01-Jun-08 14:27:45

YABU.

i remember once someone handed me a bananaskin to be weighed. errrrrrrr ok then lol.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 14:28:01

Maybe I should hand her in to the cops then?

My thieving child. And me working for the criminal justice system and all. Disgraceful, she should be sent to a boot camp now!!

TheBestMum Sun 01-Jun-08 14:29:05

Who hasn't eaten a few grapes, or given them to their LO to keep the peace as you've journey round the aisles?? Most of us I'd say.
I bet you were furious to be told off like a school child, I would've been too!

duchesse Sun 01-Jun-08 14:29:25

Pavlov- it is technically theft (taking something without permission), it is just that the perpetrator cannot be held responsible for it.

Staff is shops probably get really cheesed off with people eating things in the shop and not thinking they are stealing whether you remove something without paying on the inside or the outside of your body is pretty academic really.

This is just the grape thread, rebranded.

HoBo Sun 01-Jun-08 14:30:11

Yanbu pavlov

Jeeez, jobsworth for sure.
Perhaps you should return and request refunds for every 'raisin' grape you get in a bunch?!

wink

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 14:30:20

misdee - I can understand that if I had given them an apple core, but I took it off her as soon as i noticed she had it, and did not let her have it again until after I paid for it!

FrannyandZooey Sun 01-Jun-08 14:30:43

next time weigh her before you go in
then let her eat what she likes
they can weigh her again at the end, and you can pay

alicet Sun 01-Jun-08 14:30:52

pavlov if you were buying it because she took the bites I think that is a different matter - I didn't realise that from your OP. If I was you I would have explained this to the woman when you went to pay for it. Then if she wanted to be stroppy about it that's her look out - you know you did the right thing by immediately going to pay for it when she started to eat it!!! My ds has done this too and I agree there's not a lot you can do about it other than what you did.

However, I don't think she is wrong to point out to you that it is paid for by weight and to not let your dd eat it first - she might have presumed that you gave it to her to eat not that your dd took it herself. If she carried on about it once you had explained then she would be unreasonable though.

I can understand why you are pissed off given the circumstances but I think the cashier was only doing her job. Maybe being a bit of a jobsworth. But I think you are over reacting, sorry. Can't say I wouldn't do the same myself - we all have days when someone pushes our buttons don't we - I'm certainly not having a go at you! But try and forget about it.

misdee Sun 01-Jun-08 14:30:52

dd3 is a grape theif.

dh made the fatal mistake of letting her hold the bag of grapes as we did the shopping. she had snaffled 5 before i joined them in the next section.

duchesse Sun 01-Jun-08 14:31:42

erm HoBo- re "raisin grapes" you'd have paid less for a slightly dried one, so getting a good deal more than anything. As many nutrients but less water.

AbbeyA Sun 01-Jun-08 14:32:08

YABU you can't start eating something that is sold by weight. I never used to give mine anything that I hadn't paid for in the supermarket.If they never have anything then they don't expect it.

findtheriver Sun 01-Jun-08 14:32:47

LOL F and Z.
Sounds very jobsworth. Just tell her not to do it until it's weighed next time.

HoBo Sun 01-Jun-08 14:32:57

grinduchesse lol

what about the plump furry ones?

Earlybird Sun 01-Jun-08 14:33:12

Maybe it's a good time to explain to your dd about rules and the law. Maybe do as Kimi suggests in future?

AbbeyA Sun 01-Jun-08 14:33:44

Sorry if you were paying for it because she took bites that is different.

duchesse Sun 01-Jun-08 14:34:17

If they're rotten, pick'em off is my suggestion, or buy a non-rotten bunch- shop shouldn't sell or expect to sell rotten produce.

niceglasses Sun 01-Jun-08 14:34:27

The think that gets me is the rudeness. Ok, so blardy technically its theft. Saying that I've let mine do it too. I usually get round it by buying pre-packed ones (more pricey) and letting them have one of them.

Still, I think a lot of what winds pple up is the lack of politeness. Why be snotty about it? Why not be nice? It doesn't cost anything. They need to remember who the customer is, honestly.

I got told of in a very arsey manner once for letting my very small daughter sit on the bit where you pack your bags. I reported him to Customer services. Rude fecker. I hate rude pple.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 14:34:49

HoBo - finally!

Duchese - I am not sure if you read any of my posts since the opening post. I did not give her the apple!

You are talking about eating grapes/apples as you go along, the odd one here and there before paying for the rest.

I am talking about a toddler that in error took a bite of something, who did not know not to do it, as its come up as an issue before, which was taken off her, and paid for.

FrannyandZooey Sun 01-Jun-08 14:35:05

this thread is bonkers
as if there aren't loads of 2 year olds who are going to just help themselves without really understanding it is wrong
pavlov stopped her as soon as she saw what happened and paid for it - big deal
I commend you on your dd's taste for healthy eating

misdee Sun 01-Jun-08 14:35:29

kimi we have also done that. now dd3 is bigger she holds onto her reciept for grapes as she mucnhes them round the shop.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 14:35:44

The Theft Act 1968 Section1 (1) states that a person is guilty of theft if: he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

Clear enough?

findtheriver Sun 01-Jun-08 14:36:08

Yikes, bit young to be talking about the law innit??
But most two year olds have a good grasp of what's right and wrong in a straightforward situation like that. Explain to your dd that you don't eat any food until you've gone through the check out.

bellavita Sun 01-Jun-08 14:36:23

If I had been that cashier, I would have just let you have it.

When I worked for ASDA, you had a certain amount of discretion. Could be for seeing a child helping mum/dad at the checkout and you could let them choose some sweets (or a piece of fruit),or if you saw a child that was unhappy about somehing or any other reason really. We had smiley face books - cashier just filled it in with the reason and put it in the till and then that money could be accounted for.

Bellavita let Joey have 50p worth of sweets today as he had a gorgeous smile.

onepieceoflollipop Sun 01-Jun-08 14:36:27

I guess they have to uphold the "rules" otherwise someone like me might eat a load of luxury pick and mix chocolates and take the wrappers to be weighed. grin

It does seem silly in a way as it is such a tiny amount of apple BUT it is the principle really.

If she "told you off" rather than pointing it out politely then she was wrong in her manner, but not in the point she was making imo.

FrannyandZooey Sun 01-Jun-08 14:36:32

I am pretty sure the age of criminal responsibility has not been lowered to 23 months
I think you will just about get away with it this time pavlov

shreksmissus Sun 01-Jun-08 14:36:59

Message withdrawn

duchesse Sun 01-Jun-08 14:38:02

pavlov- I know you didn't give her the apple. It is still theft. Just because she is 1 does not mean that the act- removing food without paying and without consent- is not theft. The fact that she is waaaay below the age of criminal responsibility is neither here nor there. It is the act that constitutes the theft, not the age of the perpetrator.

Of course you did the right by removing and paying for the apple, and I think the cashier was being a jobsworth, but it is still theft.

shreksmissus Sun 01-Jun-08 14:38:10

Message withdrawn

misdee Sun 01-Jun-08 14:38:37

oh bellavita, i remember that thing in asda. dd1 once dropped her dummy at the customer service desk as i was dealing with soemthing, a member of staff went to the baby section and gave us one of those dummy clips, and then wrote down all the details in a book. i liek a good freebie.

nannynick Sun 01-Jun-08 14:39:06

Surely the 'meeter greeter' at supermarkets should be handing out FREE fresh fruit/veg to children to nibble on as they go around the store. Would help the store to feel they are contributing something to 5-a-day.

AbbeyA Sun 01-Jun-08 14:40:02

The cashier should have realised that OP was doing the right thing and been friendly-pavlovthecat could just have put it back on the shelf!!

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 14:40:34

duchess in case you did not see my post above - The Theft Act 1968 Section1 (1) states that a person is guilty of theft if: he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

So, as she did not take it dishonestly, and as I paid for it as soon as I noticed she had taken the bites out of it. It is not theft.

alicet Sun 01-Jun-08 14:41:25

I don't think many people are saying pavlov is unreasonable for what happened. I certainly am not. I think she did exactly what any responsible person would have done in the same situation and couldn't have done more.

I think the cashier was probably a bit of a jobsworth but I think at the end of the day she was only doing her job. Albeit a bit to the letter without any application of common sense.

I just think pavlov is over reacting a teeny tiny bit to be this cross over it!

duchesse Sun 01-Jun-08 14:41:45

Actually, I think she might be found not guilty under the Act's definitions of "dishonesty" in paragraph 2. If she, in her sweet little 1 yr old way, believed that the nice shop lady would let her have the apple, then she does not fall into the definition of dishonesty...

Dishonestly’
(1)
A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as
dishonest-
(a)
if he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to
deprive the other of it, on behalf of himself or of a third person; or
(b)
if he appropriates the property in the belief that he would have the other’s
consent if the other knew of the appropriation and the circumstances of it; or
(c)
(except where the property came to him as trustee or personal representa-
tive) if he appropriates the property in the belief that the person to whom the
property belongs cannot be discovered by taking reasonable steps.
(2)
A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another may be dishonest
notwithstanding that he is willing to pay for the property.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 14:42:38

I am surprised, although should not be, at how many people dont bother to read any of the other posts before posting their sanctimonous shite opinions!

Clearly my willfully thieving child should be carted off to jail.

Obviously taking the apple of her, and telling her 'you cant eat this until we have paid for it poppit' is not harsh enough!

duchesse Sun 01-Jun-08 14:43:35

Although a good prosecution lawyer might get her on point 2 (2)- it may still be dishonesty even if she were willing to pay for the apple.

wink

shreksmissus Sun 01-Jun-08 14:43:43

Message withdrawn

unknownrebelbang Sun 01-Jun-08 14:43:56

She was rude.

You're over-reacting.

imvho.

duchesse Sun 01-Jun-08 14:44:19

pavlov- why start an AIBU thread without first donning full protective clothing?

DirtySexyMummy Sun 01-Jun-08 14:44:41

Hmm.. I think to be 'furious' is a slight over-reaction, fair enough she was being slightly jobsworthy, but she was only stating a fact, maybe so you wouldn't do it in future.

And, with all due respect, whether you gave your DD the apple or not is irrelevant. You are responsible for her and she should not have been unsupervised long enough to take it and eat it.

I can, however, understnad why you would think this is silly, but to be furious? hmm I wouldn't even care.

alicet Sun 01-Jun-08 14:44:45

unknownrebelbang exactly what I wanted to say in slightly more sccinct way!!! grin

duchesse Sun 01-Jun-08 14:45:41

And if your are referring to me in your previous rude post, pavlov- Yes, I have read the entire thread. Just don't expect me to agree entirely with you.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 14:45:56

Duchese hear hear! NOT GUILTY YOUR HONOUR!

I was not so much as overeacting to the situation, I am however reacting to the opinions of others!

I think, As everyone else has an opinion about my actions, without reading my posts, I shall take a step back and let you all make assumptions based on your imaginations of what I said.

hmm

<taking a step away from her own thread for a moment>

niceglasses Sun 01-Jun-08 14:46:25

Like I say, I get over my wild anger at the rudeness of pple by reporting them to customer services. I'm ever so polite, I never loose my temper, but I'll have my say.

Manners and respect are sadly lacking and its not just young pple.

getbackinyouryurtjimjams Sun 01-Jun-08 14:46:35

groundhog day. It's the grape thread again.

Beetroot Sun 01-Jun-08 14:47:00

This is what dh used ot do

let child eat apple/carrot
take another one them him to check out and get them to weigh that

alicet Sun 01-Jun-08 14:47:15

'I am surprised, although should not be, at how many people dont bother to read any of the other posts before posting their sanctimonous shite opinions!'

Er - pavlov pot kettle black! I don't think anyone is wanting to cart your dd off to jail - if YOU read the posts with a slightly less hot head I think you will see that people are just pointing out the side and not accusing your child of theft!

shreksmissus Sun 01-Jun-08 14:47:27

Message withdrawn

Piffle Sun 01-Jun-08 14:47:43

oh btw if anyone here was in newark waitrose driving an bmw x5 with 3 noisy whiny kids, did y'eva think their dreadful behaviour was helped by you stuffing 14 barrels of shit into them all the way round before paying for it becuse they whinged for it....
Grapes
ham
crisps
chocolate milk
my dp judged you harshly indeed grin

alicet Sun 01-Jun-08 14:48:26

Um that should read 'pointing out the other side' not just 'the side' grin

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 14:48:50

bellavita - I always thought there was that kind of discretion too. I think to be honest the male *cashier (pointed out as many people have presumed he was a she!) was more erked by having to touch an apple which has baby spit all over it! (he was in his early 20s).

MrsCarrot Sun 01-Jun-08 14:49:03

Check out lady sounds like an arse

Yes, we all know eating food before you pay for it is wrong and we should <adopts disapproving voice> take our own snacks to the supermarket and all that but for heavens sake.

The toddler took two bites and the op took it off her and paid for it because of that. She didn't need to be that petty and could have mentioned it without telling off the mother.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 14:50:24

If I was not hot headed, I would not be in the AIBU thread, I would be in the CHAT thread, surely!

grin

Cuppa anyone?

alicet Sun 01-Jun-08 14:51:17

Yeh fair enough pavlov and it wouldn't be as much sport if we didn't all over react sometimes grin

Yes please - milk one sugar!!!

unknownrebelbang Sun 01-Jun-08 14:51:51

pmsl - was just about to post to tell you to go get a cuppa.

but then thought I might be seen as patronising wink

duchesse Sun 01-Jun-08 14:55:23

I'm still fantasizing about seeing babies up in the dock at the Old Bailey charged with the theft of a ha'penny's worth of apple. Long arm of the law and all that, example to others what what...

cornsilk Sun 01-Jun-08 14:56:06

Well I think YANBU, particularly as you went over to pay for it when you realised your dd had bit it. Sounds right to me. My dc have knocked jars over and broken them in supermarkets and I've not been asked to pay. It's what children do, as is eating stuff when you're not looking. Staff should expect it and deal with it accordingly.

cornsilk Sun 01-Jun-08 14:56:57

'taken a bite, not bit it.

2shoes Sun 01-Jun-08 14:58:59

yabu. I am sure the lady didn't want to handle the apple after bites had been taken out of it. and if it is done by weight(all loose fruit is) then she was within her rights to be annoyed.

stleger Sun 01-Jun-08 15:00:31

Perhaps you could write to the store manager congratulating the cashier on being so thorough. And suggest a transfer to the veg. section to police people who remove stalks from mushrooms and broccoli which I can't spell? If you are handling coins, baby dribble is the least of your germy worries.

katierocket Sun 01-Jun-08 15:02:36

presumably somebody has mentioned grapes?.....

cornsilk Sun 01-Jun-08 15:04:23

I am actually amazed that so many posters think that YABU here. Next time I buy new potatoes I'm going to ask the cashier to knock a bit off for the dirt - I'm not paying for that!

MrsCarrot Sun 01-Jun-08 15:05:00

do people remove stalks?

I have looked at the broccoli ones sometimes thinking that's half the weight but I can't imagine snapping it off. I'd probably get a bendy one and then send both pieces flying and hit a store assistant or something embarrassing.

FrannyandZooey Sun 01-Jun-08 15:06:26

shock MrsC you must EAT the stalk
it is much more nutritious than florets

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 15:07:26

male cashier not female!

niceglasses Sun 01-Jun-08 15:09:04

I am as well Cornsilk. Honestly, we are the customers. Its a bite of an apple, paid for.......some perspective needed. I bet the op goes in there most weeks and spends a small fortune. If its anything like me, I get my wages paid directly into Sainsburys.

MrsCarrot Sun 01-Jun-08 15:09:08

No, no, Franny, life is too short for broccoli stalk.

Dh puts it in the stir-fry and I always feel annoyed. I have a whole frigging plateful of lovely multicoloured nutritonal vegetables, I do not need the stalk.

bellavita Sun 01-Jun-08 15:10:17

pavlov - surely if he did not want to handle the apple then it would have just been better all round for him to say oh go on then, this will be my good deed of the day.

In fact, I used to give quite a bit away (small things anyway), especially if it was busy and the runners on the back did not have time to come to your till to see what you wanted. If a bar code was missing on a piece of fruit or if something would not scan - I would let the customer have it. It is a win win situation then, customer happy, you have done your good deed and it keeps the queues moving which keeps the supermarket happy.

By the way - I did not make up my own rules about giving stuff away - we were told to use our own judgement on how busy we were and the easiest plan of action.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 15:11:01

<passes Alicat a cuppa, and ponders where she can buy a suit for 23month olds up and coming court case>

grin

Still think its funny that people don't read posts properly. People make such assumptions based on incorrectly digested information! Like, me letting her take it, the cashier being a woman.

<makes mental note to take snacks to shop when popping up for pint of milk>

MrsCarrot Sun 01-Jun-08 15:11:36

anyway I don't believe you, how can the anaemic looking stalk be more nutritious than the lovely dark green florets with the stress on the rets. grin

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 15:12:47

*Bellivita - funny you mentioned bar codes, as the *male cashier asked, in his normal ever so polite manner 'where is the sticker for this?' Er, maybe she ate it? Is that extra? grin

bellavita Sun 01-Jun-08 15:14:03

Watch out for extra bits in her nappy! grin

DirtySexyMummy Sun 01-Jun-08 15:18:48

Pavlov - to be fair though, you did let her eat it.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 15:19:57

niceglasses - its my local shop, a mini supermarket, but a 'brand' one, at least locally (coop). So, I am often in there, and they know me. This jerk cashier knows me. Its not something he has witnessed before, the theft of an apple by my DD.

In fairness, the cashier on the next till stood up for me, told him 'you trying telling not to touch to a toddler and see what happens!', and smiled at me, while the long queue behind me made up their own assumptions.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 15:20:29

Oh, and did I mention he was a *male Cashier*?!

DirtySexyMummy Sun 01-Jun-08 15:21:03

Why does it matter that he was male? hmm

findtheriver Sun 01-Jun-08 15:24:53

Ladies ladies! Calm down!
I think we have established the facts:

The stolen item was an apple (though other offences involving grapes may be taken into consideration).

The cashier was male.

He didnt want to get baby spit on his hands (neither would I actually, or old man spit or any other kind of gob)

The moral of the tale is....... explain to your two yr old that you don't take and eat things in shops until they are paid for. Most two year olds will understand that. Up to you then, as the responsible adult, to enforce it.

Sorted smile

TheHedgeWitch Sun 01-Jun-08 15:26:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 15:33:53

DirtySexyMummy - I point out that he is male,
1. as lots of people on this thread assumed it was a female.
2. Once I pointed out she was a he, people kept on referring to the cashier as a female, so I felt it important to re-iterate the very fact that she was a he, so that stereotyping could be corrected. grin

bellavita Sun 01-Jun-08 15:34:40

TheHedgeWitch - anyones child can swipe something in a flash - cmon that was a bit mean.

I remember DS1 swiped a wooden train out of the ELC when he was in his buggy. I did not realise until after we had been in about four other shops.

Pavlov did pay for the apple.

FrannyandZooey Sun 01-Jun-08 15:35:06

I'd imagine she was smoking crack cocaine at the time, that tends to take my mind off what my toddler is doing

she probably wasn't even in the supermarket, were you in a hotel somewhere with your fancy man pavlov?

niceglasses Sun 01-Jun-08 15:38:40

I think F&Z by the sounds of it, she was probably so busy stuffing unpaid for goods down her jumper that she didn't see her Artful Dodger of a daughter.

Stone her.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 15:40:23

THW - I was in the alcohol section at the other end of the store. She was running riot all on her own.

Really - I was putting back the yoghurt that she had tried to open.

I had no trolley.
The apple was in the veg section, at toddler height.
We had no pushchair - been to park, I was getting the paper, which is next to veg section.
She can move very fast.
She is not a robot.
She understands not to touch things, sometimes - she just choses to ignore said instructions, sometimes.

Some mothers are clearly saints, able to never let their children touch things, eat things, run off, stay quietly and calmly in a trolley whilst calm serene mother potters around the supermarket.

I am not one of those mothers!

bellavita Sun 01-Jun-08 15:41:55

I am not a saint either pavlov - join the club grin

FrannyandZooey Sun 01-Jun-08 15:42:56

supermarkets bring out the worst in children
they sense they have a superb audience for any misdemeanours and that mummy is already stressed and will probably freak out entertainingly

ds SHOUTED once as we went past the alcohol aisle

"mmmm WINE, Mummy, I LOVE it when you give me WINE"

neither dp nor I drink, and ds has never ever tasted wine or anything like it hmm

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 15:43:28

LOL Franny - I was reluctant to admit those bits!!!
grin

I am actually starting to enjoy this thread!

Puts feet up and reads posts, whilst popping corn, DD watching some horror film somewhere in the house.

duchesse Sun 01-Jun-08 15:44:44

Broccoli stalk is lovely, much sweeter than the floret as well. My daughter always specifically requests to be allowed that bit, uncooked instead of cooked broccoli.

unknownrebelbang Sun 01-Jun-08 15:45:39

Calm, serence and unknownrebel in the same sentensce just doesn't go.

lol at DS Franny.

MrsCarrot Sun 01-Jun-08 15:49:26

really, duchesse, is it sweeter? Ok, maybe I will try it.

It amazes me how perfect some mothers are. I think they should have their own little section on mnet, the perfect topic. Then they can start threads saying AIBU that my toddler behaved perfectly the whole way round the shop and I did not get a gold star.

glaskham Sun 01-Jun-08 15:55:31

broccoli stalks are the best bits!!! i dont allow my kids much of it as i liek it so much!! but they always stand in the kitchen with me asking to try bits of raw veggies!! DS likes raw mushrooms but not cooked!!! how very strange of him!!!

MrsCarrot Sun 01-Jun-08 15:56:52

well, I always thought dh was a bit weird and you're all at it, you, you stalk munchers.

FrannyandZooey Sun 01-Jun-08 16:02:01

but I AM the perfect mother and ds STILL shouts things about wine shock

FrannyandZooey Sun 01-Jun-08 16:02:24

MrsC stop letting the veggers down here
you're making a show of yourself

MrsCarrot Sun 01-Jun-08 16:06:22

<blows raspberry>

Quattrocento Sun 01-Jun-08 16:07:06

Yup there's a YABU from Quattro here too.

In the same position, I used to buy two apples (or more frequently bananas) and get the cashier to weigh the uneaten one twice. It works fine. Technically even two 23 month old bites count as theft. Sorry and all that.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 16:11:19

lol franny.

MrsCarrot - really, they should. I agree. Us non-perfect mothers can learn something from them I think, like how to stop a child biting an apple for the second time, after you say no, but cant quite run all Hollywood film like, screeching across the floor, horror on face, quick enough to snatch said apple from her hands! Or how to stop your child from ever leaving your side without strapping them into a pushchair, even though they can walk.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 16:13:34

Quattro - you need to keep up...It has already bee evidenced that it does not count as theft, unless there was dishonesty involved. Shall I show you again? grin.

I am off to go eat trifle brought over by my friend, who wants a coffee.

So, keep posting your thoughts, and I shall take a look in a bit!

I don't think IABU actually.

FrannyandZooey Sun 01-Jun-08 16:14:59

check she paid for the trifle before eating any, won't you pavlov

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 16:17:11

Quattro - also, what if the second apple is a different weight? That does not work, as it is paid for on weight as established already, then surely, you could be stealing, by your own definition, if it weighs less than the one you bought? Especially as you would be actively choosing this option, so even more likely to be theft! Or did you weight it first to make sure it was exactly the same, and could you prove this if challenged?!! grin

Sorry, I am going now, really!

Quattrocento Sun 01-Jun-08 16:17:59

Hang on hang on. The child cannot be liable but you can and are. Also you clearly did have a permanent intention to deprive - you didn't pay for the two mouthfuls and had no intention of so doing.

Why not pay for it in full by the way? No-one's saying that you can be ceaselessly vigilant and stop them before they do things, but there's no reason why you shouldn't pay for the things taken (in their entirety).

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 16:28:27

quattro - if asked, absolutely would have, if they still take half pennies grin. Or, as she was still chewing, i could have asked her to spit it out? grin - yes, i should have done that!

unknownrebelbang Sun 01-Jun-08 16:31:11

Now, that WOULD have grossed out the male cashier!

stleger Sun 01-Jun-08 17:15:30

Pavlov, aren't you the lady with the sister who knows a lot because she reads the Daily Mail? I'd like her opinion!

I have just been to tesco and saw a man on his 6own^ eating loose grapes!! shock

I immediately thought of Mumsnet of course wink

findtheriver Sun 01-Jun-08 17:45:22

At quarter to six on a Sunday evening spooky?? My god, he'd probably broken into the store too grin

Haha!!

Takes me ages to unpack the shopping and cook dinner before getting round to my valuable MN time grinwink

Herbiethecat Sun 01-Jun-08 17:55:44

Man was diabetic and warding off a hypo? <desperately tries to think of vaguely legitimate reason>

Pavlov, you have my sympathy - my almost 3 year old would do that quite innocently and happily too. Maybe those who can explain such things to their toddlers have more placid children?

I think the cashier was jobsworth and rude, and I 'm with pavlov 100%
She is definitely not being unreasonable.
Country's going to the dogs,
service is not what it used to be
hrrumph

cornsilk Sun 01-Jun-08 18:05:39

lol at this thread now! 'You didn't pay for the two mouthfuls.'Just how big is your dd's mouth pavlov? Did she take big gobfuls of the offending apple? Anyway, what about apples that get knocked off the shelf and bruised? I'm always ending up with them (when dh goes shopping!) Are Tesco's at fault then for selling me a dodgy apple with a big bruise on the side that I always have to cut out?

HoBo Sun 01-Jun-08 18:09:10

LOL...that was my point about the grapes earlier on, cornsilk!

Quattrocento Sun 01-Jun-08 18:33:21

I suppose I've got old fashioned ideas about property. If I haven't paid for it, it isn't mine.

The idea that you are entitled to steal because you once bought a bruised apple from Tescos is sloppy thinking IMO. Since when did two wrongs ever make a right? Yes buying a bruised apple is seriously irritating because in reality you are not going to take it back - time/money etc. But it still doesn't make it right to take something from them, does it?

SraCellophane Sun 01-Jun-08 18:33:56

I'm disappointed. I do so love a good grape-stealing thread. However, having read the posts, Pavlov - you're completely in the clear.

I HATE people giving their DCs things which are paid for by weight and often alert staff to the "stealing" which is going on in Aisle 4 grin.

FGS, if you want your child to munch going round the supermarket, then take it with you in the first place. Or are you going to wait until your child is 12 before you say, "Actually, it isn't right to take things which don't belong to you"?

kittywise Sun 01-Jun-08 18:42:28

No pavlov you're wrong on this one, you haven't paid for the weight of apple she's eaten . No matter how meagre.

Piffle Sun 01-Jun-08 18:42:28

I always took/ take a snack wherever I went/ go with mine when they were preschoolers. Stops the whine for treats, and no need to broach the moral no mans land that is eating before paying. I mean what if your card failed or you lost your wallet? If you could not pay. <shudder>
the embarrassment.

SraCellophane Sun 01-Jun-08 18:52:40

kittywise - I would agree, but have you read all the posts, which show that Pavlov did not intentionally LET her LO bite the apple? There's a big difference IMO

Piffle Sun 01-Jun-08 18:56:43

Hmmm so perhaps said youngun should not be roaming but instead be in a trolley. I'm 3 kids down and kitty has 6 and never have mine ever done this.

FrannyandZooey Sun 01-Jun-08 18:57:23

ah, why spoil a perfectly good AIBU thread by actually READING what the OP says before wading in and judging her
that's not in the spirit of MN at all

Quadrophenia Sun 01-Jun-08 19:01:16

its a feckin bite of an apple, i'm sure Pavlov would have paid for the extra bit if asked, this is bonkers.

SraCellophane Sun 01-Jun-08 19:06:47

Well, I've only 2 LOs and although neither have ever done this, I think it would be foolish to say that it will never happen.

FWIW, I disagree with letting children eat ANYTHING whilst in a shop, paid for or not. Adults don't (generally) so why should they? I have always managed to entertain mine in the trolley by, erm, talking to them and getting them involved with looking for things. But as I said, that's not to say the youngest won't one day sneak a bite of something whilst I'm agonising over which flavour Fruit Shoot to buy wink

Oh, and those of you who let yours eat bread and drop crumbs around the place... shame on you!

pagwatch Sun 01-Jun-08 19:08:40

I don't let my kids eat in supermarkets. but then I don't let my children eat in the street or walking around either.
they really hate me grin

nickytwotimes Sun 01-Jun-08 19:10:18

Lucky people who can get their kids to behave in a trolley without bribery a wee treat! I couldn't do it without giving ds something to nibble on.

Quadrophenia Sun 01-Jun-08 19:12:16

can't remember any of my kids eating in the supermarket but I'm certainly not bothered enough to judge someone who does (unless they are making a sandwich or something). whilst some mum's have total control and are completly organised before the supermarket shop, others leave the house ina flurry of purses and mobile phones and bags with things falling out and kids fighting not to get in the car. We aren't all the same and I'm pretty sure these rebel toddlers aren't going to turn into bank robbers as a consequence of their parenst disorganisation.

pagwatch Sun 01-Jun-08 19:12:47

Actually not lucky.
It was feckin feckin hard work.

But Ds2 had SN and allergies etc and if I had let him eat in a trolly I would never have been able to shop again. So not terribly lucky really sad

pagwatch Sun 01-Jun-08 19:15:40

gawd . my post reads nothing like the way i said it in my head?
please ignore me > i am sounding chippy when actually not at all. sorry people...

cornsilk Sun 01-Jun-08 19:16:35

When my ds's were small the ladies on the cheese counter used to practically throw bits of cheese at them to nibble on. They've never nabbed a bite of apple or anything else, but if they had done I'd probably have done what Pavlov did - seems a perfectly appropriate response.

nickytwotimes Sun 01-Jun-08 19:18:01

's alright pag.
wink

pagwatch Sun 01-Jun-08 19:20:10

smile thank you.

bohemianbint Sun 01-Jun-08 19:21:08

Cashier sounds like a nob.

Wouldn't let my DS eat fruit in the supermarket but that's because of all the chemicals and crap on food before you wash it. smile

PMSL at "mmm WINE mummy"
Do they get a manual on 101 ways to embarrass your parents in the supermarket?

Piffle Sun 01-Jun-08 19:26:09

despite my arguments not entirely supporting op in her odyssey, I do think cashier was wankenstein. I mean how hard is it to say, ok next time nicely or grab a whole apple to weigh so the endangered commercial thieves that are supermarkets do not lose even one small penny.
compromise... I mean I walked out of waitrose once without paying for bread roll hanging off pram handle. Raced back in but cs lady laughed and waved me out thanking me for honesty but would not accept payment.
that fostered goodwill indeed

Blondilocks Sun 01-Jun-08 19:26:20

Yes, YABU because it's not yours until you've paid for it & it's a pet hate of mine seeing people eat while going round the supermarket, even small children.

clonx Sun 01-Jun-08 19:34:36

sanctamonious people are a pet hate of mine and i try not to get wound up or make judgements on other people when i dont know their circumstances! ffs its a bite of an apple. Next timje give her one of the prepack ones and then you will be paying the full 24p!!!

Niecie Sun 01-Jun-08 19:40:56

Mine have never stolen anything from a supermarket either. <smug emoticon>

Mind you, DS1 has probably eaten his own body weight in raisins, taken out with me, whilst shopping over the years. <not so smug now>

DS2 hasn't been that bothered. They both knew from a very early age that things weren't theirs to eat until you pay for them.

Pavlov YABU to be cross about being told that it was wrong.

YANBU about being cross for the way you were told. I would have made a comment if I was the cashier but I wouldn't have made a big deal of it and I would have said 'please'.

Did you let her have the apple once you had paid for it? I don't think I would have let mine have it as it would have let them think that they would get a 'reward' (the apple) if they did it again. Not much of an incentive to stop doing it.

lucyellensmum Sun 01-Jun-08 19:43:13

he gets wanker of the week prize

TheHedgeWitch Sun 01-Jun-08 19:45:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bergentulip Sun 01-Jun-08 19:53:02

My DS1 is officially involved in grand theft on a large scale.

He'll always munch on fruit around the supermarket, but quite frankly I am not too bothered, and if he's happy, me to. Of course, I would not allow it in a little corner local green grocers, but come on, I reeee-ally do not class a 1/2/3yr old eating a few grapes, or even a bag of raisins as theft (however, these you can still scan at the end when empty though, so opt for them mostly myself).

Do people really care that much? Do you people going on about theft really see it as such? Really? Or just a bit bored and trying to get more of a conversation going on a Sunday evening?

bergentulip Sun 01-Jun-08 19:54:22

(sorry, 'you people' sounds a bit attacking, don't mean it to be!!)

bluefox Sun 01-Jun-08 20:00:23

Supermarkets have been sued by people who have slipped on grapes which have fallen on the floor. That is why they are now almost never sold loose and are in small bags - which is where they should stay until paid for and removed from shop. People going around eating a bunch here and there could easily drop one and cause an accident.

Quattrocento Sun 01-Jun-08 20:02:38

No really I am like that. When I hit cars (only twice) and take off wing mirrors I write notes and fess up. When I get refunded too much change I own up. When my DCs take fruit out of a supermarket I pay. It's all the same thing - just a question of degree I suppose.

TheHedgeWitch Sun 01-Jun-08 20:03:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

niceglasses Sun 01-Jun-08 20:05:47

Oh i do all those things as well Quattro. I think there is a bit of a leap btwn bumping a car and a 2 yr old biting an apple (and her mother paying for it)

What was she doing? Gawd. Do you lot NEVER take your eyes of your kids. I do.

Swedes Sun 01-Jun-08 20:08:00

You are a common thief. grin

davidtennantsmistress Sun 01-Jun-08 20:16:12

on the swiping things front - DS usually has all manor of goodies in his little trolley in tescos (we get the one with the little car thing on it so I have to remember to give it a good check - easy done for them thou)

and on the apple/grapes from - that's why I buy the pre weighed ones, and apples in a bag of 5 or whatever it is - haven't yet come across a prob. can't see myself how 2 little mouthfuls is theft myself esp as she'd paid for the apple - would it not have been ruder to put said apple back with the bite marks not showing?

mrsc - re the stalks bit, my nan does that - she's told me all about it, when your'e on a pension, take a little knife into the shop and cut it off - after all it's heavy and we don't eat that bit hmm can't see that one myself.

wonderstuff Sun 01-Jun-08 20:17:34

Bloody hell, i don't think yabu, 2 bites of an apple can happen very quickly! I never thought that i'd be giving my child food in the supermarket but last week when she had a complete melt down all he way there and I had to get tea I headed for the baby ailse, ripped open some rice cakes and amazing quiet, happy baby, such a relief after 20 mins screaming! Really whats the big deal??

I don't get why people are sticking up for the arsey cashier.
It was half a penny's worth of apple. The shop probably throws out hundreds of pounds worth of edible food every day.
Really, it's all a matter of perspective isn't it?
Child takes a tiny bite of apple - let it go.
Child takes apple and slips it into his/her pocket - challenge them about it.

Judy1234 Sun 01-Jun-08 20:32:37

I never let the children do that. It is theft, plain and simple until you've paid I'm afraid. The sooner children realise the importance of the law the better and how much you respect it. What if you'd got to the till and not had your purse on you etc?

wonderstuff Sun 01-Jun-08 20:34:48

But really an apple! Gawd I saw someone blatently stealing in morissons yesterday, that is wrong and its theft, but a child biting an apple?? Really not a big deal imo.

niceglasses Sun 01-Jun-08 20:35:30

'I never have salt on my food. Its bad for you'.

'I never let my vegetables touch my meat'.

sorry, just ever so slightly reminded of Moody Margarent from Horrid Henry there for a moment.

The words lighten and up spring to mind.Presumably if she didn't have her purse she would have come back to pay for it. She sounds pretty honest to me.

Swedes Sun 01-Jun-08 20:36:49

Theft is theft. There are no degrees.

SraCellophane Sun 01-Jun-08 20:37:53

Cutting the stalks off: pmsl - my brother flicks them off tomatoes too! He's also worked out that it's cheaper to buy spring onions from the salad bar than whole!

niceglasses Sun 01-Jun-08 20:38:22

Sheesh. I give up.

how can it be theft? She paid for it.

I don't believe you are all so sanctimonious. I think you are all just doing it for a larf.

falcon Sun 01-Jun-08 20:41:07

YABU perhaps she was a little rude about it, but I'd have taken another similarly sized apple, or asked them to get me one instead of weighing a drool covered partially eaten apple.

And not talking about the OP here but allowing one's child to eat even a few grapes and not paying for them later is theft.

Besides they'll be unwashed, pesticides anyone?

MrsCarrot Sun 01-Jun-08 20:47:45

well, OP could have found an apple of equal size and shape, matched the shade with a paint chart while checking the stalk was the same length (that could tip the balance) before explaining to the cashier the situation in full, that she/he was to weigh this apple as a match for the one currently being munched.

Or, of course, OP could have been watching her every move like a good mother should and the issue of how one pays for the toddler sized mouthful of apple would not have arisen. Oh to be as good a mother as some.

MrsCarrot Sun 01-Jun-08 20:49:07

oh, cross posts, Falcon

MrsCarrot Sun 01-Jun-08 20:52:11

though I was taking the piss but I concur that would be a solution

and then the toddler would have the joy of finishing the apple, but this would of course teach him that stealing is wrong

and the resolution might tempt the mother to repeat the mistake of ventuing to the supermarket without snacks.

SraCellophane Sun 01-Jun-08 20:52:25

Oh, pur-lease. I'm sure we would all rather the OP was let off the 1 or 2 pence than have her man-handle a piece of fruit she was not going to buy, just for the sake of having it weighed.

hmm

MrsCarrot Sun 01-Jun-08 20:52:41

Heaven forbid

SraCellophane Sun 01-Jun-08 20:53:23

And that wasn't meant as a slight on you, Pavlov - just don't like to think of fruit being touched more than is necessary smile

SraCellophane Sun 01-Jun-08 20:54:51

Ah, sorry MrsC, didn't detect the sarcasm in your post smile

stleger Sun 01-Jun-08 20:56:44

Yhe cahier could also observe unwrapped bakery goods and accost people who touch rolls but don'r buy them.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 21:01:17

OMG it is continueing in my absence!

I sent my 23 month old to bed with no tea as punishment. She wont be doing that again!

grin

Oh, did I tell you the cashier was a man? wink

Pavlov this is very funny grin

<<happy sigh>>

Have a cup of tea

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 21:03:21

I also object to the cashier touching food my daughter was going to eat, after touching dirty money/scratching his balls and god knows what else. With no gloves on!

MrsCarrot Sun 01-Jun-08 21:04:08

you did, pavlov, several times wink

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 21:05:36

boys - I have not even been here for ages, everyone is getting in such a state about it!

grin.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 21:06:49

MrsCarrot just wondered as people still call him her or she or similar!

Frothing is the word for it Pavlov.

Heh heh heh

Dragonbutter Sun 01-Jun-08 21:11:30

More importantly Pavlov, did you leave me a shopping list?

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 21:12:51

Well, keep this going. I am going to have a bath in prep for my work tomorrow. Wich in case you dont all know, involves rehabiliatiing criminals grin pmsl.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 21:13:40

Dragon - I DID!!!! Ages ago tho! Did you not get it? grin

findtheriver Sun 01-Jun-08 21:14:45

Pavlov - the cashier scratched his balls?? Well you didn't tell us that did ya??
This gets more exciting by the minute!

Dragonbutter Sun 01-Jun-08 21:15:44

Froot Shoots
Fanjo
and a half eaten apple?

This reminds me of that child at a pick your own strawberries thing who was told she could eat half of what she picked. When they went to pay all the strawberries had been neatly bitten in half

gabbyfemale Sun 01-Jun-08 21:17:52

YANBU he didn't need to be so rude - the only thing that would get me about my DDs eating an apple I hadn't paid for is that it hadn't been washed!!! I had a horrible allergic reaction to one once when I hadn't bothered to wash it .....

findtheriver Sun 01-Jun-08 21:26:50

Well I'll definitely be scrubbing all my fruit and veg after hearing about the cashier scratching his nads!!

Is this a wind up? I never quite catch up on these 'challenge' threads ...

OK, assuming its not - i cannot believe you're stringing this 23 month old baby up for swiping an apple and taking a couple of bites before her mother took it away from her (therefore IMO teaching her that it is not ok to take things without paying) and took it to a till to pay for it.

You're all as mad as a box of frogs!!

Pavlov - IM humble O you are NBU. He was clearly a jobsworth who'd possible had a shite day and yes, maybe didn't want baby spit on his hands.

As for those who said that Pavlov should have been quicker to stop her dd from her thieving munching - how does it feel to be so perfect?? <sigh>

SraCellophane Sun 01-Jun-08 21:33:42

Don't forget the guy who unpacked it.... and all the nose-pickers who've picked things up then rejected them...

And what about the people who lick their fingers, to open the plastic bags? I confess that sometimes I really have to, but I'm consistent about which hand I use and always say to myself, "Left to lick, right to pick". Oh dear, I'm sadder than I thought.

Astrophe Sun 01-Jun-08 21:38:15

I am realy shocked at the cashier, and all the 'its stealing' hype - even on MN!

I have willfully given DS a banana to stop hysterical meltdown, and then told the cashier to please weigh one banana twice as DS ate one. It was fine - cashier smiled and laughed and weighed a banana twice. I would have been surprisd at anything otherwise.

MrsJohnCusack Sun 01-Jun-08 21:53:37

ha
I let my two eat some grapes the other day to keep them quiet.
when I got to the checkout I told the cashier they'd eaten about 10 grapes if she wanted to add on a few cents. she laughed and said don't worry
I thought of mumsnet grin

I've been known to eat a few strawberries at the pick-your-own.
Anyone gonna call the police?
wink

Judy1234 Sun 01-Jun-08 22:29:39

Someone asked how can it be theft. That's because you're eating it before you paid. It's not a very complicated point at all. If you walked into an open house in the road and took an oil painting and later the police asked you about it and you said but I was about to pay for it - not a defence, is it? Because at the till they could refuse to serve you or you might not have the money. You cannot use and take goods before the money is paid.

Valid point Xenia, but we are talking about a 23month old baby and an apple. Please tell me that you can see that its not exactly the same ...

Astrophe Sun 01-Jun-08 22:32:54

you've not taken it off the stores property without paying though.

SraCellophane Sun 01-Jun-08 22:33:39

Ahem... I have to confess to opening a box of tissues before I'd paid for them (unusual for me not to have at least 149 tissues about me, somewhere). I figured it was preferable to spreading my germs everywhere. Forgive me, Xenia?

onebatmother Sun 01-Jun-08 22:42:19

is that you Senora? grin you big Teef.

SraCellophane Sun 01-Jun-08 22:45:30

Erm, no, it's not her.

And I'm not a thief... I paid for the box, after apologising!

Xenia, I always cheque I have cash in my purse before letting DSs eat anything.

MummyTubb Sun 01-Jun-08 22:47:38

I can't see why anyone needs to let their children eat anything in a supermarket to be quite honest. Personally I find it rather yucky, and totally unnecessary.

Do people not wash fruit before eating it? Why would you give your children something to eat that any number of people have already handled?

Mummytubb - she didn't give her child the apple. Her dd took a couple of bites before she had realised. Once she had realised, she took her dd (and the offending fruit) to the till to pay for it.

hth.

onebatmother Sun 01-Jun-08 22:53:53

bloomin heck MummyTubb - you're quite certain about that!

Even if she did give her child the apple, I would always attempt to keep a child happy, rather than drag a screaming 2 year old around a supermarket.

check, not cheque. duh.

MummyTubb Sun 01-Jun-08 22:57:11

Oh, right! I missed that bit!

That's why I tie mine firmly into the trolley and keep out of toddler-arm-reach of the shelves. They're more interested in cuddling each other (at the beginning of the shop) or beating each other up (by the time I'm halfway round) to care about what's on the shelves!

MummyTubb Sun 01-Jun-08 23:03:10

Ah, but, onebatmother - I'm a very cruel mummy. It would be the thin end of the wedge - if I give them something so I'm not dragging a screaming 2 year old (and 4 year old) round the supermarket once, then I'm going to have to do it virtually every time. There's no point in my two screaming since it won't get them anything!

onebatmother Sun 01-Jun-08 23:04:28

Well then you are a very lucky lady. Take a deep breath and remember those who aren't so fortunate grin

MummyTubb Sun 01-Jun-08 23:06:46

Hmm - not sure I feel that lucky when they're bashing seven bells out of each other in the bread aisle in Sainsbury's!

cornsilk Sun 01-Jun-08 23:08:34

Xenia - when you go for a meal you don't usually pay until after you have eaten - what if you don't have your purse in those circumstances? Is that theft also?

MummyTubb Sun 01-Jun-08 23:14:18

Cornsilk - I think it's to do with whether there is a value-added element to what you are purchasing. Generally if you are paying simply for a physical item you pay in advance (supermarket shopping, takeaway, clothes, etc). If you are paying for something which has a service element (restaurant meal, car servicing, plumber, etc), you pay afterwards.

duchesse Sun 01-Jun-08 23:16:37

cornsilk- no because you go in on the understanding that you will pay after eating your meal. If you then state that youo have no money and do not intend to pay, then it becomes theft.

I am detecting a subtle difference in approach between those of us who have legal training and those who don't.

The law is. Everything else is just mitigating circumstances.

Califrau Sun 01-Jun-08 23:23:53

tis the old grapes and supermarket thread relived <sigh>

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 23:25:48

findtheriver - I dont know if he actually scratched his balls, I am making the assumption that he did this or something else unsavoury which I would not know about before handling food without gloves - pick his nose, not wash his hands after going to the toilet, handling money handled by someone who did scratch his balls, you getting me?!

Bluenoesaint I can assure you that this is not a wind up thread. Or rather, I did not start it as a wind-up thread, although giving some of the slightly far-out comments of the nature that may well make mothers tie their children up in their pushchairs, hands by sides/outside with the mutts for fear of their toddler deliberately and willfully stealing two bites of an apple, I can see why you may feel you have stumbled on a wind-up thread!

And you say you can't keep up? Me neither. I fear there are some MNers who may not have even left this thread wink

I can't believe this has descended into a legal debate. It was a few mouthfuls of apple.
It's not the end of the world people!!!

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 23:30:56

I have to applaud you all though, you have thoroughly entertained me this afternoon, and evening. You even almost got me in trouble for sneaking away from my friends to check on who was saying what and why.

I have not had a good 'discussion' for want of a better word, like this for a while grin

DaDaDa Sun 01-Jun-08 23:33:47

There are opinions on this thread which border on the maniacal. I can't quite believe that anyone seriously expects a normal, unsedated toddler not to nick a bit of food occasionally, or that any parent can stop them doing it 100% of the time, or that it's not outrageously poor customer service to make an issue out of a couple of bites from an apple.

So I'll presume you're all just having a larf at the OP's expense. smile

DaDaDa Sun 01-Jun-08 23:33:48

There are opinions on this thread which border on the maniacal. I can't quite believe that anyone seriously expects a normal, unsedated toddler not to nick a bit of food occasionally, or that any parent can stop them doing it 100% of the time, or that it's not outrageously poor customer service to make an issue out of a couple of bites from an apple.

So I'll presume you're all just having a larf at the OP's expense. smile

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 23:34:12

Lyra - it is MN! Would you really have expected anything else? I have to confess I did not really get involved in the whole grape discussion, I paid vague attention and not fully grasped the enormity of it.

If I had, I would have, as rightly pointed out by Duchesse donned my protective armor earlier than I did! I would probably still have posted grin

Quattrocento Sun 01-Jun-08 23:36:12

The main point is not the fact that your daughter started munching on an apple ... no-one's suggesting you physically restrain her - it's the fact that you didn't pay for the two mouthfuls. I mean they're not like free nibbles for toddlers are they?

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 23:37:46

DaDaDa - I hope they are, or else I would be quite concerned that some people wont sleep well 2nite wink.

I for one, have had a good roast dinner, trifle (not stolen) and soak in the bath and a bloody good chuckle. At least once I got over my initial annoyance at the checkout bloke ande vented my anger on MN. Much calmer!

Pavlov, what have you started?
This will go down in MN history along with grapes, Fruit Shoots and Greggs sausage rolls.
grin

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 23:39:09

Quattrocento grin

Quattro, are you serious?

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 23:40:25

Lyra How very dare you compare this situation with <whispers> fruitshoots and greggs shock

I am shocked and appalled.

TheFallenMadonna Sun 01-Jun-08 23:41:24

Blimey. I my DC have broken jars/boxes of eggs more than once in our local shop and never had to pay, although I have of course offered to do so.

Did you apologise BTW? I apologise profusely and offer to pay, they laugh, reassure and refuse.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 23:42:05

methinks she is not.
Cheek firmly in tongue I reckon.

"The main point is not the fact that your daughter started munching on an apple ... no-one's suggesting you physically restrain her - it's the fact that you didn't pay for the two mouthfuls. I mean they're not like free nibbles for toddlers are they?"

Eh?? Are you really saying that? Utterly bizarre!

Two mouthfuls!! TWO MOUTHFULS!! TWO MOUTHFULS!!*

*from
a baby!!

Its not the crown fecking jewels!!

And she did pay for the blasted trouble-causing fruit as soon as she realised!!

<<walks off shaking head in disbelief>>

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 23:44:37

TFM - I did apologise, but not with much grace, given the rudeness of his manner to me, and look of disgust like DD has puked on it or something. I should have offered to pay, there was big queue, the cashier next to him thought he was being unreasonable, so would have been funny for him to ask manager how he would claim half penny at most from me/work out how much exactly I owed! grin

cornsilk Sun 01-Jun-08 23:47:33

tsk pavolv! I bet your dd piles her plate high at the salad bar in pizza hut.

pavlovthecat Sun 01-Jun-08 23:56:26

LOL Cornsilk - its got a slightly different name in our house, that place! wink

cornsilk Sun 01-Jun-08 23:57:37

What's that then?

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 00:02:46

Well I think I am being serious - or half serious anyway - it's difficult to explain - mine and thine were concepts so firmly and rigidly instilled - for instance whenever I stay in hotels (which is frequent) I agonise about whether or not to take a couple of small bottles of shampoo/conditioner for dd's bathroom - she loves the little bottles - i mean they are there for me to consume not to take home, aren't they? You light-fingered lot would probably swipe the towels as well ...

pavlovthecat Mon 02-Jun-08 00:04:20

I have just been reading through some posts to catch up
Xenia - you are funny grin pmsl.

Mummytubb - do you really tie your children into the trolley?! With what? Rope? My DD is a little hudini, she gets out of all spaces, tied in or not with straps, is very slight, and very supple, she sort of bends her arms inwards to get out of her pushchair straps, leans forwards, and slithers the rest of her body out. We had to stop putting her in her highchair with straps, got a booster seat thingy, as she kept getting tied up in the straps after getting out of them, and its easier and safer not to use the pushchair when out as it means pushing it and chasing her!

Anyway, why strap her in when she can walk. Surely she will learn quicker about respecting things that are not hers by learning, rather than by being strapped in like a pet? Different parenting styles I guess.

TinkerbellesMum Mon 02-Jun-08 00:05:15

I've missed this whole thread, shame I don't have time to read all 224 posts!

YANBU, BU would have been to have put it back with the bitten sides hidden wink

I do tend to buy most things in ready weighed bags and Tink has been known to have a feast walking around Tesco (the only place she will eat at times) but it is stuff that will get paid for. I once had a cashier ask if it was already open, I said no that I had taken one out, then thought and said "I should have said yes and got a free one when you swapped it".

My sister used to work on the check out at Tesco and was telling me about a woman who let her son wee on her shopping, it was at the till, not sure what side though. Everything soaked through. She insisted that they replace everything in her trolley, which they did! My sister said well over £100 worth of stock!

TinkerbellesMum Mon 02-Jun-08 00:07:19

Quattrocento little bottles go in the bin when you leave. The towels go in the wash to be used again.

Big difference.

pavlovthecat Mon 02-Jun-08 00:07:56

Quattrocento - I never agonise over taking those little bottles of shampoo - if you pay the ridiculous prices for hotels in the first place, they are not gratis. You have already paid for them! Unless the little book of rules in the hotel room clearly states that they are for the consumption in the room only grin.

pavlovthecat Mon 02-Jun-08 00:10:40

TinkerbellesMum - next time I will dive across room to save apple/other fruit she might eat, and put in back, spit and all! Least she would not have eaten it, and its gonna have matey boys dirty fingers all over it anyway.

I like your technique of getting your LO to eat!

TheHedgeWitch Mon 02-Jun-08 00:10:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pavlovthecat Mon 02-Jun-08 00:11:39

*Quattrocento - you say you agonise about taking the bottles - but what do you actually do?

pavlovthecat Mon 02-Jun-08 00:15:17

*THW - one bite while I was not watching, the second bite, as I was telling her to hand it to me. With that look of a child doing something she should not...it was quick enough as most people here understand. They were not huge gaping bites that took her ages to chew, she is 23 months, not 3. She took slithers of the skin!

I was not really in the alcohol section at the other end of the store!!!!

Dragonbutter Mon 02-Jun-08 00:17:44

<<sigh>> i wish my children ate apples envy

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 00:20:53

Well sometimes I take them and sometimes I don't. It depends on whether or not they are (a) pretty and (b) not heavily perfumed (DD's skin easily irritated). If all the circumstances are right it has been known for Quatt to filch the bottles ...

I never use them myself - always take my own stuff - so I feel this hotel, this particular hotel - owes me for all the times I've never used them. Which is of course entirely muddled and self-justificatory thinking

TinkerbellesMum Mon 02-Jun-08 00:49:46

lol then they lose even more than half a penny as they go in waste hmm you should have asked her that!

THW fair enough, but £100's of stock is a little more than breaking something. Can you imagine being the poor member of staff that had to sort it all out, empty the trolley and find out what it all was so you could replace it? Heyeeek!

Elephantsbreath Mon 02-Jun-08 00:55:31

You are *ALL* **NUTs** about this.

When ds was 2 I would pick out a lttle lonely ripe banana and give it to him saying' THIS is a gift from Mr Tesco.' Kept him occupied for the duration of the £100 trip for the week's shopping and I only occasionally got the cashier to price it up (and then only as a result of dp's mortified embarrassment of my fiddlededy ways).

Worse to come Mners! You know where they cynically put sweeties on toddler level? Well, said ds used to grab one on his waddley way *and I *ignored* it. My grounds being ( and yes total mortification from dp so no support here!) that I Never bought sweets for him so if they put the blardy stuff at his level what do they blardy *expect*(?

yanbu

Astrophe Mon 02-Jun-08 00:58:27

har har elephantsbreath, you are going to get caned here

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 01:04:34

Oh, an out-and-out shoplifter. Gosh. Tell me, Elephant, when do you propose to teach your children that stealing is wrong? Or don't you propose to teach them any such thing? Because their adult lives might be a touch difficult ...

spanky1981 Mon 02-Jun-08 01:08:05

Out and out shoplifter?
Get a grip!

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 01:09:21

So busy giggling with shock and horror over a gift from Mr Tesco, that I forgot to ask if he gave you any presents? A nice bottle of bubbly at Christmas, say, swiftly tucked away into a buggy?

Elephantsbreath Mon 02-Jun-08 01:13:10

oh do get real people and grow up !!*

TheHedgeWitch Mon 02-Jun-08 01:22:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Elephantsbreath Mon 02-Jun-08 01:23:52

Quattrocento, have you been on the bubbly yourself tonight*?? hmm

TinkerbellesMum Mon 02-Jun-08 01:28:01

Ewwwww! Think wee would be worse for me, chicken fat not far behind but would that be over £100 worth of stock? I like hearing the stories my sister tells and just being grateful they're not me!

My sister (checkout team leader) met her husband (garage manager) at Tesco, they were both pushed out. He hated his new job and was headhunted back. More fool him! I found out that at my local store a cashier met her hubby when he was the store manager! But that's digressing.

Tortington Mon 02-Jun-08 01:29:20

i stole some spoons from tesco

Elephantsbreath Mon 02-Jun-08 01:32:51

Custardo *you nutjob >*

Elephantsbreath Mon 02-Jun-08 01:37:23

you'll hav'em *shrieking on here

aquasea Mon 02-Jun-08 01:48:59

OK, so I haven't read all 11 pages but WTF?! This has to be a wind up. I am with Elephantsbreath on this one! I can't believe so many of you are horrified and think Pavlov is being unreasonable!! shock Her baby ate a couple of mini bits of apple, she paid for it and she got told off! Pavlov, YANBU. I would be annoyed. Sheesh, people, relax.

duchesse Mon 02-Jun-08 02:36:28

Qui vole un oeuf vole un boeuf.

aquasea Mon 02-Jun-08 06:05:50

Oh come on, it was hardly stealing!

Judy1234 Mon 02-Jun-08 06:28:54

"Xenia - when you go for a meal you don't usually pay until after you have eaten - what if you don't have your purse in those circumstances? Is that theft also?"

In a restaurant and at a petrol station you are given permission by the owner to take the goods and pay after just like when you buy goods on credit. In supermarkets there is no such express or implied permission. I am just telling you the law. You don't have to like it but that's the law.

pavlovthecat Mon 02-Jun-08 08:04:45

How many of those commenting on here are/were cashiers? Is it that I have annoyed the cashiers of MN? wink

pavlovthecat Mon 02-Jun-08 08:08:11

Elephant How very dare you?! wink. I am with you on this one I have to say.

We cant all be saints now can we?
<pulls halo from around her neck, attempts to lift it above head, fails>

Morning all. smile

Shall this debate continue all day? If so can you slow it down a touch as I have to go to work and wont be home until gone 6pm.
grin

bergentulip Mon 02-Jun-08 08:24:09

You know, all this nonsense about theft is just outright silly. Said already I know, but deserves to be said again....

and, to the comment about "I mean they're not like free nibbles for toddlers are they?" from 4cento. Sure, not technically, no-

But, in a lot of continental supermarkets, this is exactly what is offered- free nibbles for toddlers/kids et al. Little piece of sausage here, crust of bread there, cube of cheese elsewhere etc etc....

aaaand, then for the parents? Well, a lovely automatic FRESH coffee brewing machine so you can slurp coffee on the way round All rather pleasant if you ask me.

IMO it is not theft to have a few bites, as a toddler, of anything. If packaged, present said empty packaging to be scanned. Otherwise, just bloody well let the child eat it. Noone wants screaming children running around causing mayhem. Better they are sitting in the seat eating quietly, than charging at shelves threatening to throw jars on the floor, and grabbing at everything that looks interesting, ie, most stuff in the place!
I mean, don;t be brazen about it, but no issue. (re pesticides, just let them 'steal' an organic apple!! wink )

MummyTubb Mon 02-Jun-08 09:17:46

Pavlov - Yes, I do tie DD into the trolley - with the straps provided. She is normally a little houdini, but by the time I've crammed her in there along with her 4-year old brother, there's hardly room to breathe, let alone climb back out!

I suspect my time as a supermarket cashier, may have something to do with my dislike of food being eaten in the supermarket. Hmm - yes, I really want your child's drool on my fingers - it will mix nicely with the leaky shampoo residue and sticky raw chicken juice that is there already. Lovely!

thelma2008 Mon 02-Jun-08 09:19:15

YANBU - if you had given her the apple to eat and produced the core at the till then it would be different.

I agree some check out staff can be very rude.

MummyTubb Mon 02-Jun-08 09:53:33

Pavlov – I’ve just noticed the last sentence in your reply to me last night. I find the suggestion that strapping my children into the child seats of a shopping trolley, using the safety straps provided, is treating them like pets, rather rude tbh. Obviously there are different ways of teaching a child to respect what is not theirs, but to imply that yours will learn quicker than mine is a little rich, particularly given that it is not my child who has just stolen two bites of an apple!

If we go to the local shop in the village then usually both of my children will be walking around the shop with me. They help me choose the fruit and vegetables, and count them into the bags. They still don’t help themselves, so obviously I have managed to teach them something, despite treating them like pets! wink

Enid Mon 02-Jun-08 09:54:38

I buy apples in bags for this purpose

I do feel guilty if they eat an apple when it is done by weight yes. Although in Waitrose you can print the sticker by weight before you pay so THEN I dont feel guilty smile

TeriHatchetJob Mon 02-Jun-08 09:58:11

The legal definition of theft is to "dishonestly approriate property with the intention of permanaently depriving the other of it"

There is no dishonesty in this case - it is not theft.

Enid Mon 02-Jun-08 10:00:15

So mad to think it isn't theft

but I know this has been done to death before

ecoworrier Mon 02-Jun-08 10:00:53

Haven't trawled through all of this, but to the original poster, yes you are being totally unreasonable.

There is almost never a need for anyone to open anything or let anyone eat something until it has been paid for. It is just bad manners and setting the wrong example.

You choose the goods, pay for them and then you decide if and when your children are allowed to eat them.

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 10:04:23

Teri - I think the argument technically revolves around the fact that pagwatch would not have been able to pay for the bit that her dd ate, even though she may or may not have had the intention to do so. Technically there was no way of knowing EXACTLY HOW MANY MILLIGRAMS OF APPLE FLESH the little thief had consumed.

Has MN actually gone through the Looking Glass?

ecoworrier Mon 02-Jun-08 10:04:49

Actually, having read slightly more carefully, I see you only bought it BECAUSE she'd bitten it.

That's slightly different, although I think the assistant was still probably right to mention it, she probably gets lots of people letting their children eat stuff. It sounds from this thread that it's quite common! So in that sense I do have sympathy with the assistant.

Although I have to say most two year olds would probably know they don't eat the food until it's been paid for.

MrsCarrot Mon 02-Jun-08 10:09:59

but it wasn't a conscious decision to let the toddler have a snack, the toddler grabbed it and bit it quickly, bit it again as the op tried to get it back, like they do

then she PAID for it

but sadly, not for the two stolen bites

many mnetters are better mothers and would not have allowed this to happen.

OP is going to have to live with this guilt now. I think she may need support getting through this tricky time.

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 10:11:43

yes indeed MrsC. She alone can know the full burden of her guilt, and how it will eat at her soul like a worm in an apple, till kingdom come (quite possibly)

fymandbean Mon 02-Jun-08 10:14:06

I have a rule - no eating before its paid for. Having said that you can never police it 100% of the time so YANBU....if half the apple had gone then YABU but 2 bites is way OTT for a telling off.

MrsCarrot Mon 02-Jun-08 10:15:20

exactly, some have tried to help already with gifts of tea and biscuits further down

NO, the OP screamed, and crumbed the offerings into her hair shirt.

<shakes head sadly>

Hmm. tricky.

I think the solution is to do two rounds at the supermarket: locate apple and pay for it. Exit store and give apple to child, then come back into the store and do the main shop at leisure with child's jaws legally occupied.

Or maybe we could all get a life. YANBU.

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 11:19:03

So how are the gals in shoplifter's corner today? What were the spoils this morning?

<duchesse that was a lovely addition to the thread, thank you>

prettybird Mon 02-Jun-08 11:27:01

I once weighed a bag of grapes and got the bar code for the amount due. I then let ds eat some of the grapes while I did the rest of the shop. The cashier wouldn't let me use the "pre-weighed" bar code and insisted on weighing the grapes again, even though I told him/her that ds had had a few, which is why I had weighed them shock

BTW - people on here obviously had more advacen 2 year olds than mine: while ds, aged 2, might havde known "No" when told know, he didn't underastand the concept of theft, paying for things - not of waiting! grin So while I could have told him "No" if I'd seen him, and he might would have listened, unless I could watch him every second of the day (and I haven't hey grwon the eyes in the back of my head) then this scenario could have happened to me.

Ds is now 7.8 - and he does know right from worng and that you can't get something until you have paid for it.

TinkerbellesMum Mon 02-Jun-08 11:30:05

Well I'm just about to go off to Tesco where I will be having dinner and Tink will possibly be having her dessert walking around while I pick up things I need. grin But hey, it keeps her quiet and sitting in the trolley instead of running off, I'm happy.

Judy1234 Mon 02-Jun-08 14:44:37

It is theft in my view. How can they weigh the bit you've destroyed. A more interesting legal issue is who is responsible. Children under 10 cannot in law commit theft. So if she did it with your knowledge and connivance then I suppose you might be responsible but if she sneaks a bit without the parent seeing the parent may not be responsible. I had to pay for damage to someone's car which my under 10 year old did when he rode his bike into it without looking but I wasn't that sure at the time whether the parent is responsible.

Anyway it just looks so tacky and working class to see parents letting children take bits from the food shopping as you go round so for the sake of appearances desist. It is like wearing a sign saying we don't care about the law. We have children we cannot control. We have children who cannot wait until meal times to eat.

TinkerbellesMum Mon 02-Jun-08 15:12:13

Xenia, I'm not breaking the law and I don't care what you think I look like.

Am snorting my tea at "it just looks so tacky and working class...for the sake of appearances desist".

Xenia I think I'm starting to like your pantomime villain act despite my better judgement.

cheeset Mon 02-Jun-08 15:34:27

Self policing society, that's what they .

People starving all over the world and then the ^apple incident^ . I worry.....hmm

cheeset Mon 02-Jun-08 15:35:34

Oops could do the ^italics blush

cheeset Mon 02-Jun-08 15:41:13

Ignore my last two posts! Don't know what came over me/my typing but just to say its all pantsgrin

lucyellensmum Mon 02-Jun-08 15:45:28

Xenia - ROTFL What sort of sentance do you think should be assigned to the bit of immeasurable bit of apple then??? Do you EVER apply any common sense to your argument?

Honestly, i know you are an intelligent woman but sometimes you simply come across as a troll!!!

It looks working class to let your children eat whilst in the supermarket??? Blimey, i always open a packet of ORGANIC crisps for DD to munch on whilst we shop, she looks forward to it. Ah but hang on i AM working class - WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THAT??

But then hold on, i bet you had the nanny do the shopping anyway, so have never had to traverse the isles of waitrose with toddlers in tow??

Arguments like that will mean people will stop taking you seriously - now im actually starting to wonder if Xenia is a SAHM who lives in a high rise council flat and she just likes to stir the mix

bergentulip Mon 02-Jun-08 15:55:13

"It is like wearing a sign ......... we have children we cannot control"



Surely it is like wearing a sign - I know exactly how to keep my little nightmare in control in a supermarket!!! ??? (!)

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 15:56:25

<eyes boggle, head explodes>

jumpingbeans Mon 02-Jun-08 15:58:25

Well, know you know, when she has had enough, leave it on a shelf like every other fucker does

niceglasses Mon 02-Jun-08 15:59:17

Anyway it just looks so tacky and working class to see parents letting children take bits from the food shopping as you go round so for the sake of appearances desist. It is like wearing a sign saying we don't care about the law. We have children we cannot control. We have children who cannot wait until meal times to eat.

Ahhh thats it. The problems of society solved. You need to let G Brown know Xenia. Eating 2 bites of an apple subsequently paid for = out of control kids and wayward parenting. Of course.

Behave.

bergentulip Mon 02-Jun-08 16:00:45

Your eyes are boggling at which particular load of nonsense being 'argued' on this thread?? :0)

DaDaDa Mon 02-Jun-08 16:03:45

"We have children we cannot control. We have children who cannot wait until meal times to eat."

I believe that Department of Health guidelines are that toddlers should snack between meal times Xenia smile, and speaking as someone who loathes shopping, I'd far rather share the experience with a chewing toddler than a screaming one.

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 16:03:55

bergen, I am <shrug> about the whole thing, but it's certainly the 'out of control kids' argument which is in particular boggling my eyes.

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 16:09:39

Niceglasses -

The point you are missing is that the bites of apple were not actually paid for. The point that Duchesse was making further down the thread (in french which is prob why it didn't get the attention it deserves) is when is stealing not stealing?

For you it is a question of degree - a couple of bites of apple is such a small amount that surely it cannot be stealing, and it seems nonsensical to argue such.

But for some people (me) where right and wrong is ingrained, the issue is absolute. It's clear in law too - as the shop assistant told the OP.

As Duchesse says - he who steals an egg steals a cow.

What I'm interested in - here in shoplifter's corner - is where are your boundaries? The Elephant person thinks that fruit, sweets etc are a present from Mr Tesco. Where is the point where you acknowledge to yourselves that you are stealing? A banana? A tin of beans? A bottle of wine? A wii?

Herbiethecat Mon 02-Jun-08 16:10:14

PMSL. I can just see the ideal scenario now - glassy eyed Stepford children, sitting in silence in the trolley, unmoving.

Herbiethecat Mon 02-Jun-08 16:11:58

Quattrocento - do you buy a oxygen cylinder on your way out to replenish the atmosphere before you leave the store? Wouldn't want to be stealing the O2 now, would we? ;)

bergentulip Mon 02-Jun-08 16:17:40

"But for some people (me) where right and wrong is ingrained,"

Well, for some people (me), a sense of perspective is engrained....

And really.... how much food can one toddler get through in a supermarket anyway??

Ai ai ai ai.

LadyThompson Mon 02-Jun-08 16:22:51

I'm sorry for the op getting stressed. Trying to shop with little kids round a supermarket is no joke, I realise. But this eating of things before you've paid for them seems to be quite a new thing. I don't remember anyone doing it when I was a kid... how come it happens now?

cheeset Mon 02-Jun-08 16:25:41

It was just a bite of a bleeding applegrin

Do you think businesses are holy than thou, I bet they're nothmm

What is this perfect little world some of you seem to live in? Where is it exactly?

jumpingbeans Mon 02-Jun-08 16:27:19

Ladyt, it has always happened, and i think always will,i can remember the first supermarket coming to our town, it was fair game to eat what you wanted whilst walking round, not stealing unless you smuggled it out in your pocket, bag or whatever, stomachs did not count

Squirdle Mon 02-Jun-08 16:30:26

Pavlov, I think YANBU! Your daughter is not even 2, what does it matter if she takes a couple of bites out of an apple! Maybe it should have been a packet of sweets so that it had a barcode wink

Some people on this thread need to go and polish their halos methinks grin

FWIW when I take my 2 small boys to the supermarket (not often granted...way too much stress) I let them have apples from pre-packed bags and I let them have bits of baguette...shoot me now grin No-one has ever told me off (maybe I look too scary...or probably too stressed grin) I'd rather let them apples and bread than sweets and often have comments from the cashier that it is nice to see children eating healthy stuff rather than the crisps and chocolate that most parents feed their children around the store. Anyway I am waffling.........

LadyThompson Mon 02-Jun-08 16:33:03

Crikey, I think I've been missing out! My mother would have made me spit it out and apologise if I'd eaten stuff before she'd paid and so would everyone else's Mum I knew. Ok, so little kids have got no self control and why would they, but I must admit it bugs me when I see adults putting through empty chocolate bar wrappers with their shopping. I just think, man: can't you wait until you get outside...

niceglasses Mon 02-Jun-08 16:35:51

Quattro, sorry not missing the point. I get it. I just don't agree.

cheeset Mon 02-Jun-08 16:36:29

I always used to let my kids eat around the supermarket, the supermarkets know people do it, it's not an underground thing!

Hey, I always looked at it this way, kid nibbles, I can shop and for longer as kid is occupied with said nibble and the retailer benefits. I ALWAYS handed the package in to be scanned before anyone bleats.

Walnutshell Mon 02-Jun-08 16:38:14

"...it just looks so tacky and working class ..." and to which class should we all aspire to be considered a member?

It is awful isn't it when one has to share the supermarket with visibly working class people. Not content with scrounging off the state they steal unashamedly from honest hardworking family businesses like Sainsbury's, and they really lower the tone in the aisles. I think mumsnetters really ought to have the power to issue asbos in these circumstances.

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 16:57:59

Precisely cheeset. Neither underground, nor underclass - though if it were, that would be just fine.

If you don't like to eat before you've paid - don't!

I would quite happily consume a six-course meal in the aisles between Breads and Wine/Beer, if I were hungry. As long as I have the intention of paying for it, and the means to do so, I would consider it UTTER MADNESS not to.

Still can't work out precisely what the YABU's have against it, other than an (misguided) idea that it is somehow déclassé to do so. Which is a strange social anxiety to have, I think?

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 17:05:36

Onebat, okay I'll spell out one aspect of the several YABU objections

The OP did not pay for the goods. This is stealing. This is why we thought she was BU. Although of course the store should not have been quite so rude about it.

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 17:10:32

She did not pay for the goods because it would have been physically impossible to do so, once a minor in law had converted them into an immeasurable property.

cheeset Mon 02-Jun-08 17:19:18

OMG, glass houses I think. Any of you BU people worked in an office and borrowed/taken an envelope, paperclip, ream of paper, stamp, downloaded a movie, blah blah? If you have what does that make you?

Villette Mon 02-Jun-08 17:23:33

niceglasses, isn't it illogical to complain about rudeness and then call someone a rude fecker?
I don't think it was very hygenic to let your daughter sit where people pack their groceries.

niceglasses Mon 02-Jun-08 17:28:15

Do you Villette? I wasn't rude to his face though, unlike him. I accepted his diatribe and then reported him. I only called him a rude fecker on here. Because he was. And I'm the customer. What happened to service? Politeness?

Kids on packing bays? Humm. I'm not a clean freak. She was about 1 yr old - she wasn't wearing shoes. I haven't got time to get wound up about germs on trolleys/benches. I do have time to worry about kids running off though. If you worry about that kind of thing, I think thats more your'e problem.

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 17:30:49

I have never borrowed/taken an envelope - honesty is easy here because all the envelopes (onvelopes) are variously embossed or printed with THE CONTENTS OF THIS LETTER HAVE COST YOU A FORTUNE, or words to that effect. Paperclip no, ream of paper, no, stamp (I have never worked in an office with access to stamps, do people still do that? how quaint) downloaded a movie, downloaded a movie fark me - I can't even do that at home and even if I were computer-literate enough to be able to do it, one thing's for sure, the network would be set up to prohibit it. Actually the firm is a net recipient on the stationery front because I use my own pens religiously. Perhaps I should stick some of the ink through expenses? There's a thought.

niceglasses Mon 02-Jun-08 17:49:44

I think perhaps the reason these threads go on (and on) and get relatively heated is pple seem to make big judgements and crashingly sweeping statements based on such small things. You can't really judge anything about anybody based on whether they let their 2 yr old take one bite of an apple and if you do, well, its not a sound judgement. There is also a sneaking tone that some are more honest than others, some are more worthy, some are better parents because they would never do this. Yeah, but maybe you do something else. Maybe you are very rude (my own bet noir (sp?) )

The OP paid for it. She is not dishonest. In the garbeled words of WC Fields or was it Chruchill - she'll wake up and still be honest the next morning. Your man on the till will also still be rude.

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 17:54:29

She didn't pay for it though, niceglasses, simply because it was not physically possible to do so.

The point is, even though she didn't pay, it STILL doesn't matter.

Tortington Mon 02-Jun-08 17:54:48

i always steal a kerrang magazine from tesco

Niecie Mon 02-Jun-08 17:55:23

I'm afraid I have to agree with Xenia and Quattro (though I may have to go and have a lie down in a darkened room afterwards)

Theft is theft - it is black and white in the same way as you can't be a little bit pregnant.

What is up for discussion is whether a 2 yo girl is culpable and what the 'punishment' should be. Seems clear to me that she is not criminally responsible and the punishment if there were to be any would be slight (like a comment from the cashier) but there isn't any doubt about the theft itself. As I said before, I don't think the cashier should have been rude about it but I don't think he was wrong to mention it.

I would also have to agree that it is wrong to take anything from a supermarket until you have paid for it. There is no need. If food keeps your DC quiet take some with you - don't take it off the shelf. What kind of example does it set for the children? At what point do you teach them that stealing is wrong? How do you draw the line?

And you don't seriously think Mr Tesco's is out of pocket from the grazing, do you? Mr Tesco's simply puts the prices up to compensation. Mr Tesco will not pay - the rest of us will.

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 17:55:37

it's bete with a circonflex on the first e, NG

Do you not think then that some people are more honest than others NG? Just as some people are nicer than others, kinder than others, ruder than others etc etc

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 17:56:02

sorry, keep forgetting my grins at the madness of this all. wink

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 17:57:23

though it's circumflex in English.

LOL custardo.

niceglasses Mon 02-Jun-08 17:58:51

I'm as honest as the next and not rude I don't think. You sound more honest than me! Or am I more lazy than you or more laid back?

Who knows. I know I wouldn't judge on this though.

I know I'm dimmer tho. Wassa a circonflex when its at home?

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 18:02:52

ône of these niceglasses. As in Kêrrang.

findtheriver Mon 02-Jun-08 18:33:53

Oooh so nice to come home from work and find this thread still going!!
Custy - how about if you just read Kerrang in the store?? Would that be theft? Kind of mental theft because you've read the words but left the magazine in the shop?? Or how's about if you just look at the pics??

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 18:35:24

Ah Custy, Mr Tesco gives you spoons and a Kerrang magazine. Is Mr Sainsbury as generous? What about Messrs Asda and Waitrose? Do you visit them every week to give them an opportunity to display their largesse? Do you go with Elephantwoman? Or do you think you might get noticed together?

findtheriver Mon 02-Jun-08 18:37:43

Mr Tesco is a mean bastard. Never gives me anything.

lucyellensmum Mon 02-Jun-08 19:35:19

When does not stealing become not stealing? When its quantifiable i suppose. Two toddler size bites from an apple?? Would that even register on the weighing scales - i guess it might come to 0.789 pence. But without being trite that is a good point.

I "steal" grapes from the supermarket shock but i do it to taste them, sometimes they are sour, that is the genuine truth. Will tesco or any other supermarket or not, cut off a slither of cheese etc and allow you to try before you buy?? So i have probably purchased more grapes than i would have if i hadn't stolen one and said to myself oooooh yummy - but i am working class and my toddler is a nightmare in the supermarket. I would not however, in a million years, take grapes in an independant green grocer.

lucyellensmum Mon 02-Jun-08 19:39:12

In Custy's defence, they probably are quite grateful for her taking Kerrang off of their hands grin.

Here's another thing - if you are walking in the woods one day, and you spy a bit of wood that would look just lovely in your garden border or make a great pot stand, etc - You then put that bit of wood in your car and take it home, you are stealing. If it aint yours and you dont have permission to take it its stealing, But who owns the bit of wood? The land owner?? What if it is public land then?? What if no one gives a flying fuck about the bit of wood?

I just thank God that this kind of thing doesn't go on in Waitrose.

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 19:46:40

I am not attacking Custy - she was joking I think. Just for the avoidance of doubt.

If it's public land it's still stealing too.

Q: Why is it morally more acceptable to steal from Mr Tesco than from a small independent greengrocer.

A (I think) Because Mr Tesco is rich and people have spent money there so feel entitled to a little something back

Isn't that self-justificatory thinking?

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 19:48:20

Iorek - surely they don't let tacky and working class people into Waitrose?

Tortington Mon 02-Jun-08 19:51:01

"Custy - how about if you just read Kerrang in the store?? Would that be theft? Kind of mental theft because you've read the words but left the magazine in the shop?? Or how's about if you just look at the pics?? "

hmmmm
thought provoking indeed. great question there.

Tortington Mon 02-Jun-08 19:53:00

keep the middle classes in waitrose where they buy overpriced everything whilst saving the world

better than them littering our streets with Laura ashley dresses

<shudder>

lucyellensmum Mon 02-Jun-08 19:57:03

Mr Tesco, and his shareholders, are monopolising the food market and putting small business out of business. They have fair trade goods at an elevated price, and the rest of their products are probably ripping not only the consumer off but the supplier. So if they have to lose a few grapes - fuck em. I know that is probably a very working class and niave attitude but really, im not going to lose any sleep over a few lost grapes. Besides, i never cash in my club card points so........

I'm probably wrong for feeling this way though

That is a great question, custardo. I think it is theft sure as oeufs is oeufs, and anyone caught doing it should be deported at least.

Tortington Mon 02-Jun-08 20:00:36

lucyellensmum - you are as entitled to your feelings as anyone else

i think "fuck'em" is as valid a statement as any

I agree. LEM your sentiments may not correspond with the letter of the law, but they make a lot more sense than most of the bollocks on this thread (imho of course).

Judy1234 Mon 02-Jun-08 20:03:38

May be it is a class issue then. I bet if you took the class of the people on this thread the working class ones are the ones who are eating grapes which by the way I think is absolutely appalling (and is theft) and the middle class ones know a theft is a theft. Anyway we have the law behind us so the position is really clear.

Also if you feed your children whilst you're shopping just realise what the rest of us think of you even if it's your own food.

One reason people are so fat these days (and I accept an apple is not exactly bad for you) is because they eat all the time, on the move, between meals in a constant pattern like cows grazing in a field all day long. Of course fat is largely a working class issue too - the lower your class the fatter you tend to be.

cheeset Mon 02-Jun-08 20:04:21

lucyellensmum, my sentiments exactly!grin

cheeset Mon 02-Jun-08 20:05:58

Xenia, what a load of tosh, your having a giraffegrin

Xenia, do you write all your own material or have you started outsourcing your comic turns?

Fillyjonk Mon 02-Jun-08 20:42:53

oh i am absokutely rofl tat anyone can fkn CARE about this

ooooh theft of 1/100 of an apple, oooh.

grin

spanky1981 Mon 02-Jun-08 20:49:41

What's wrong with a bit of friendly thieving?
Victimless crime

hifi Mon 02-Jun-08 20:50:08

so if xenia is correct it means no children will eat anything in waitrose, just asda?

Yes that's right hifi (we had already covered that point actually...)

Niecie Mon 02-Jun-08 20:51:36

Xenia - there was study last year that said that actually the obesity problem is a middle class issue as the children in families where both parents work are statistically more likely to have over weight children and working class families.

I am not turning this into a SAH v WOH thread but you need to be careful before blaming obesity on the working classes and their grazing activities.

I thought that small children needed to eat more often than 3 meals a day anyway. The point is surely that the parents should expect this and take their own food with them to the supermarket and not take it off the shelf before they have paid for it.

Chequers Mon 02-Jun-08 20:54:14

Message withdrawn

spanky1981 Mon 02-Jun-08 20:57:12

I agree with Chequers. I am using my own method to punish them for ripping people off.

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 21:01:48

Xenia, as is so often the case, you are talking a Whole Bollock.

I am not working-class (you will have to guess whether or not that is true, and you have as much chance of getting it right as you do with every other of your sweeping generalizations.)

I have given a convincing legal argument which supports my belief that the OP is not a thief.

I could also argue - equally convincingly- that 'grazing' is a healthier way of eating than 'three square meals'.

I don't derive my self-belief (or any satisfaction at all) from whether my children can wait till meal-times to eat. I'm astounded that anyone does.

I think that worrying about these things - and in particular about what you and your kind think of me and my children - bespeaks a social anxiety that I cannot ever imagine feeling. But I'm very sorry if you do.

The reason that the middle-classes tend to be thinner is because they are far more likely to agonize over what their 'peers' think of them.

It is human nature to try and protect oneself from pain; if one knows one is being judged on one's weight, one has an incentive to vomit/starve/whatever, in order to avoid the emotional pain which comes from failing to make the skinny grade.

Other classes (including my own grin) are far less likely to fear the opprobrium of their peers in such trifling matters as BMI. Their aspirations tend not to concern their dress-size. They are therefore more likely to be over-weight.

Whilst I know you are a system-generated junk-argument virus, I am slightly disappointed that they didn't programme in the fact that making judgments on the basis of <coughs> class was as vulgar as it gets.

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 21:03:52

damn. is as vulgar as it gets.
Just to prove that I am not a system-generated junk-argument virus.

spanky1981 Mon 02-Jun-08 21:05:56

Lovely post one bat- but didn't you know that Xenia is really a checkout girl in Tescos having a laugh?

Quite. Xenia you are being rather unusually preposterous tonight. I wondered if perhaps you wanted a break and so had outsourced mumsnet by giving one of your staff some light trolling duties along with the ironing.

But system-generated junk-argument virus has more of a ring of truth about it somehow.

pavlovthecat Mon 02-Jun-08 21:13:32

I am glad to see passion is still alive and kicking despite a hard days work!

I have had a very boring conference to attend, discussing victims/risk of harm (no apples mentioned) and am settling down to a nice glass of wine and bowl of risotto, tucked up in bed, ready to read the 100 odd posts since I last looked!

I think, in order to gauge a true reflection of how many people say Yey, and how many people say Nay, I will go through and add up the YABU and the YANBU.

that will give me my answer, and I will deal with my guilt/exoneration of said crime on behalf of my daughter accordingly grin

pavlovthecat Mon 02-Jun-08 21:16:30

I am loving this idea that I should take a snack with me to local shop every time I need to pop out for the paper/pint of milk, however, given the queue in said shop, might be worth it. I am not sure my DD was hungry as such. She just likes apples grin.

And I also approve of the fuck em attitude, and will count this as a YANBU for my poll grin

MrsCarrot Mon 02-Jun-08 21:19:30

xenia - you talk a lot of guff sometimes

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 21:20:31

Dame Shirley Porter is of course vile. But stealing from her is as bad as stealing from a struggling lone parent - I don't buy the robin-hoodery defence - and of course it would never stand up in law.

I don't know whether the middle-classes have a clearer sense of mine vs thine - there's probably an atom of truth in that argument somewhere - you'd have to study the socio-economic backgrounds of all the tealeaves (on this thread?) but it's a terribly un-pc argument and not one that's likely to win a popularity poll.

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 21:21:43

Posting about tea-leaves, where is the Elephant and what did Mr Tesco give her today?

Saturn74 Mon 02-Jun-08 21:22:19

Xenia, your attention-seeking is legendary! grin

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 21:24:14

Sorry, Quattro, but again, that is utter shite.
If I were to be totally unPC, I would say that it was the socially-anxious and over-reaching nearly-middle classes who gave a toss. Everyone else is pro-OP.

Chequers Mon 02-Jun-08 21:26:04

Message withdrawn

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 21:28:00

Chequers - there's an argument about whether it was theft.
And a seperate argument about whether it is really lower^-^class to eat anything before you have paid for it.

InLoveWithSweeneyTodd Mon 02-Jun-08 21:28:15

yanbu
no theft IMO, although to avoid embarrasment next time bring your own apple in the handbag and make sure you tell the checkout person in a very loud voice (for the benefit of the other customers who may be judging you) that the bitten apple had already been paid for in Waitrose and was therefore, legally yours to give to your child. If you can produce a receipt, even better.

pavlovthecat Mon 02-Jun-08 21:29:36

chequers 23 months and one day old child. Indeed. Dont bother reading the rest, its pretty usual stuff!

I am not going to count them today, its too tiresome, but I will. And I will post said findings on MN for all to peruse. And comment on grin.

I let my daughter eat and drink when we are shopping. Whether we are in Tesco, Asda, or M&S, I will let her have something small if she says she is hungry because a) she rarely eats and if I miss the opportunity, its gone for most of the day b) I'm going to pay for it and c) it is easier for me to walk around shopping if she is sitting nicely eating some raisens/berries than screaming/crying that she is hungry.
I always give her food that is priced by the packet, I wouldn't let her eat a banana unless it was out of a prepaid bag iyswim.

pavlovthecat Mon 02-Jun-08 21:31:21

inlovewithsweenytodd - If I had taken an apple, I bet you she would have taken a grape, or banana, or something else. She was just excited at seeing everything. I am not entirely convinced she particularly wanted an apple. I think she wanted that apple at the precise time she saw it. Could have been anything. But it was not chocolate, or a fruit shoot. grin

Chequers Mon 02-Jun-08 21:31:41

Message withdrawn

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 21:32:16

We need a new Topic

Mentalist: can you believe that people really think that...

Oh go on MNHQ! It would go down a storm.

Nighbynight Mon 02-Jun-08 21:34:12

YANBU from me!

If I were a shopkeeper I can't imagine that I would be angry about a bitten apple that was paid for. Theft, nonsense - there is a REASON for having the age of accountability.

xenia, my children eat in supermarkets and everyone in my family went to private schools....eh? eh? grin

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 21:35:37

I googled a bit and found out that (as expected) crime is most prevalent amongst those who are socioeconomically deprived.

So of course it is true that the middleclasses are less criminal but what I couldn't work out whether the criminal behaviour was a cause or an effect of poverty - mixture of both I expect.

findtheriver Mon 02-Jun-08 21:36:36

Well I'm just very taken with the concept of Mr Tesco/Mr Sainsbury dispensing goodies from some enormous never ending santa sack. Does it work with Mr John Lewis as well, because I've seen a rather lovely duvet set I fancy......

Nighbynight Mon 02-Jun-08 21:37:10

well as richer people tend to write the laws, that result isnt surprising. Ragged-trousered philanthropists, anyone?

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 21:38:50

Quattro, your post pre-supposes that, in law, a 23-month old child - OF ANY CLASS - would be considered to have committed a crime by eating an apple in a supermarket.

Really, do think.

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 21:39:17

OOH Inspirational FTR. I wonder if Mr Cartier will be feeling generous tomorrow?

InLoveWithSweeneyTodd Mon 02-Jun-08 21:39:49

i completely understand pavlov! just joking about it.
i don't understand the fuss about a bit of apple that didn't get weighed tbh smile

spanky1981 Mon 02-Jun-08 21:40:31

AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

Quattrocento Mon 02-Jun-08 21:41:28

Think? I do far too much of that - I think the parents are liable unfortunately.

Fortunately I think DD has attained the age of criminal responsibility but I'll be keeping a close eye on DS. He's partial to grapes, you know.

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 21:41:38

And for goodness' sake, if this is the first time that you have considered "whether the criminal behaviour was a cause or an effect of poverty", you might want to re-consider the confidence with which you make your posts.

Cammelia Mon 02-Jun-08 21:42:00

Custardo

The middle classes haven't worn Laura Ashley dresses since the 1970's


PMSL at this thread

findtheriver Mon 02-Jun-08 21:42:21

I reckon if I play my cards right Mr Thorntons might look favourably on me ...

Cammelia Mon 02-Jun-08 21:42:47

grin by the way

onebatmother Mon 02-Jun-08 21:43:50

Custardo clings to that idea and it is her right to do so.

stleger Mon 02-Jun-08 21:47:27

I thought middle class boys scrumped for apples in neighbouring orchards as often as little urchins?

Cammelia Mon 02-Jun-08 21:47:28

Xenia seems to have really lost it