To be outraged at my friend for her racist attitudes?

[Withfriendslikethis]

Name change for this. In case it sparks a discussion that gets too heated for the daytime. And because friends of mine might see me on here.

So, this is the story. Its probably going to be long. Bear with me.

My friend, a good friend lives in a rough part of a city in the South West. Her parents own the property, her and her husband live there as if it was theirs. It is an estate of family houses, some are owned, some are still local authority owned. Either side of them are local authority properties. One is a three bedroomed property owned by people they get on with and see socially. Lets call them K and E. They have 6 children (one is a week old), all under 7.

One is a four bedroomed property. Currently empty.

The local area has a history of racism. It is made up of 'local' stock, who are by and large nice people. However the particular rd on which my friend lives is notorious for trouble of all kinds, setting fire to the park, fights, abuse of local residents.

This empty property used to be occupied by an ederly gentleman on his own and m friends were used to a quiet life on that side of their house (their bedroom). He moved out. K and E beleived it was their right to that property, as they were on the LA housing list, they already at this stage had 5 children in a 3 bedroomed property, it was rightfully theirs. My friend, being friends with them, agreed. So did some of their neighbours whom K and E knew since childhood.

A family of 2 adults and 5 children of African origin were moved into the property. English was not the native language of the parents but was of the children. Cue much uproar in the local community, it was not their property to have, how did they get it over and above others etc etc.

My friend, felt quite sorry for them. She said. Although she agreed it should have been given to K and E. At Christmas, the African neighbours sent one of their elder children over to my friend's house with two bottles of wine, and a card in rough english wishing them Merry Christmas. My friend was touched. She potted up some of her garden herbs and took them over to the family as a thank you. From this point on they xchanged words, hello, the kids played in her garden on occasion. But not when K and E were around.

The neighbours were not happy, K and E were not happy. The family suffered much abuse verbally.

Then they were attacked, one evening the father was outside his house and was attacked by several of those in the street. It was allegedly to do with a row about his chilhdren playing in the street. He was beaten, punched and kicked in front of his wife and children, called 'Paki' told to go home told. The police were called, the particular family who instigated and participated in the fight (father and son) were given eviction notices. The father was not seriously injured.

The family next to my friend were rehoused. But it took a while.

My friend kept saying she was shocked that those who insitigated the attack were to be evicted. She said 'They have never been like that to us, or anyone else in all the time we have been here (6 years), its not like them, I am not sure I beleive it happened like that'. I tried to explain she never suffered from abusive behaviour from them as she has white skin. She insisted not.

So, she is spending a lot of time with her friends K and E, who are furious that their other 'friends' are being evicted. She has for a while complained of the noise of having a family so close to her head when she sleeps, the baby screams and night and the mother shouts in african at it all the time, stuff like this creeping in.

The family were rehoused last week. My friend says to my DH in a very casual manner the pakis moved out a few days ago. Finally.

I am quite upset over two main things here.

1. That m friend was so racist and blase about it
2. That the council thought it a good idea to house an African family in a clearly racist area, where they were of course going to suffer from abuse?

AIBU?

[Libra1975]

1. YANBU at being upset at your friend
   
   
2. Do you expect the council to create housing ghettos based on skin colour?

[MrsMattie]

YANBU. I would never be friends with someone who held these opinions. Your friend and her 'friends' should be thoroughly ashamed of their disgusting behaviour. But they probably won't be, will they?

A very sad story.

[Withfriendslikethis]

Libra -

1. Glad you agree
2. I did not mention, they were moved in he first place due to racist incident elsewhere in the area. This particular Rd in question has a history of racist crime. I felt it was cruel to subject them to the inevitable once again. And then have to move them. Again.

[windygalestoday]

i dont think u abu.....I think local authority housing is at a low availability everywhere and sometimes with arge families these properties just arent available-where i live we have the opposite problem -locally provision for several 6 bedroom homes has been made where it is was predomonntly catholic area (large families) but recent years have seen an influx of ethnic minority families attracted by the cheaper property prices and larger homes - now the argument here is that these houses have been built with the intention of only housing predominantly asian families indeed the new streets that have been built have been named with what can only be described as asian names......clearly this has made a big impact on our community and doesnt allude to a cohesive society.

I cant help but think that its time the councils started to think about the social aspects of housing families but surely if they do tht we will get segregated communities??

no easy answer im afraid.

[wannaBe]

Hmm, actually I?m torn on this. I think the situation Is dreadfully sad, especially for the family who have now had to be rehoused because of, essentially, the colour of their skin. I think your friend is somewhat caught in the middle of this all. She clearly isn?t an out and out racist as she?s befriended this family, her children have played with their children etc. But on the other hand she obviously feels compelled to conform to the views of her friends, esp given everything else that?s gone on. Her attitude is wrong on every level, but tbh I suspect that rather than being a racist, she?s just weak, and doesn?t want to lose face in front of her other friends. She needs to learn to stand up for what she really believes is right.

Secondly, if the councel move a white family in instead of a black one they are essentially pandering to the wants of the racists. We need to educate people, not pander to them. Iykwim?

[Withfriendslikethis]

MrsHattie - it is sad. And I worry about my friend, and where out friendship is going. We have been friends for a long time, and she never used to hold beliefs like this. I have seen her viewpoints change slowly over the last few years, since she moved into this area.

It just seems that more and more, her views seem to be the views of her neighbours, it even sounds like them. I dont know if this is who she has become, or if she just spends too much time around them and it has rubbed off, but she doesnt really beleive it? I have known her a long time.

Her DH on the other hand is completely different. Or else he is a good cameleon..

[Saturn74]

I think there are unintelligent and ignorant people everywhere.

Racism is not restricted to people living in council properties, or to a particular area.

I am saddened that the people who physically attacked the father of the family were not dealt with more severely.

Instead they have just been moved on, to practise their bigotry elsewhere.

When your friend made the comment about the other family moving out, did you or your DH comment?

I wouldn't have been able to bite my tongue.

[Libra1975]

MrsMattie I think you are being a little harsh about not being friends with people who held this opinion, it seems the OP friends are quite easily swayed on one hand letting the children play in her garden and yet on the other agreeing with K&E. The phrase anything for any easy life comes to mind. By the OP continuing her friendship with this person then I think she maybe able to persuade her friend where her thinking is wrong.

[windygalestoday]

but wannbe is it fair to put people in situations like this?i feel sorry for the family forced to move again.

in our local paper there were people on private housing estate up in arms because some housing assocition had bought 6 properties to rent out and they didnt want low income families living there i never fail to be disappointed with society lately.

[Withfriendslikethis]

Humphry - I do not know if the police dealt with the incident criminally, it might have been, but even then most likely a slap on the wrist.
My DH was present, I was not. He was shocked, almost to the point of silence, but he did point out that 'paki' was a derrogoratory term for some from Pakistan, and they were clearly from Africa, it was not a pleasant thing to say. Friend not really react apparantly..

Libra - I think this is the most likely action I will take, as I said she has been my friend for a long time. When I discuss it with her she comes from a point of view that agrees with me. I feel I don't really know what she thinks. Does she agree with me to keep the peace, or with her other friends to keep the peace?

And, as I was not present, should I discuss it with her? Or leave it until/unless a situation like this occurs again?

[MrsMattie]

I'd call someone who says 'paki' an out and out racist. It would be easy for me, as a white person, to say 'well, people are ignorant, it doesn't make them bad people' etc etc. The thing is, though, my husband is black and my children are mixed race. So I can't scuttle off and do 'anything for an easy life (not that I ever would anyway).

Personally, I couldn't be friends with a person I knew to hold openly racist views. It just wouldn't work In the case of the OP, it's her decision. I didn't advise her to disown her friend. Perhaps she could challenge her friend's views? I don't know. Her friend, her decision.

[Blu]

How very horrible.

I think there is a lot in what wannabe says - your friend was friendly and socail to her neighbours...but fell fo pack mentality once feeling ran high. And it is pretty damn disgraceful that she used that language about her neighbours and felt glad they were being moved out - poor things.

The problem started when everyone started making up thier own minds about 'entitlement' to the house - it was always going to be allocated according to the council system, and the African family had pobably been on the list longer, or were in a desparate situation due to harrassment elsewhere.

I do agree that there needs to be a system other than pandering to racists who think that their 'entitlement' makes it ok to harrass anyone else out if the skin colour doesn't fit. IMO everyone who took any part in the harrassment should have been evicted immediately.

[Blu]

And yes, if she was a freind of mine I would have said something to her about that language and attitude.

Ultimately, if you don't stand up to it you are part of it - her I mean, but it goes down the line.

[Withfriendslikethis]

Blu - I agree that she is easily swayed. However, it cant just be as feelings ran high can it? I know that if I say the word 'paki' in discussion about things like this (DH and I talked about it). its a conscious effort to say the word. It does not fall off my tongue easily as it is not an every day part of my vocabulary.

It had come out of my friend's mouth so easily. It was not a word she was unfamiliar with using. Which shocked DH as much as her use of the word. Which implies a continued use of the word?

[Blu]

yes - you're right, WFLT.

I would feel sick if one of my friends said that, like that. And be very angry and disgusted.

[monkeysmama]

It has made me really angry and sad to read this story.

I am an active anti-racist but come from an environment where some of that terminology is accepted. I always challenge racist language - when people who think like that hear my accent they sometimes seem to assume I will share their views and I often find that people are shocked and embarrassed when challenged (as they should be!)

I don't know if it might help but someone at work has been supportive throughout my pregnancy (unlike most of my colleagues). She comes from a similar background to my own but has always said how much she enjoys London for being such a diverse city. A month or so back she made some comments about race that made me physically recoil. Without going into detail she suggested that someone who was murdered by racists was actually killed for his involvement in drugs. At the time I said she was wrong and I'd never heard such nonsense but I felt physically dirty and awful all night and the next day actually tried to avoid her.

Eventually I decided I was so angry with her I had to say something else. So I told her how what she had said made me feel, how offensive I found it, how dangerous it was to spout that kind of view and that if we didn't address it I wouldn't be able to be her friend anymore. I know that sounds like something from the playground but it worked. She said she'd heard the story from someone in a pub and that as soon as she'd said it she regretted repeating it. The event she was referring to marked a major moment in my life and I think her comments will have altered our friendship for good sadly - I will always be worried about her underlying views now. But on the other hand, by addressing it with her I hope that she might, at the very least understand why I have distanced myself from her and hopefully even feel confident challenging such views next time they raise their heads.

MM

[Withfriendslikethis]

I am interested in the perspectives re LA actions. I understand that it is necessary to ensure areas are not wholly 'owned' by a particular skin colour, in this and surrounding areas namely 'white'. People should integrate, of course they should.

But I cant help feeling that whilst moving a white family in would mean that racists have 'won', the family who were moved in were already victim of racist abuse and were just put through it all over again. And we have seen of late how dangerous receiving a kicking by a number of people can be. It was inevitable that this family would suffer at the very least abuse prior to moving them.

Is it not then using these poor people as 'pawns' in a bigger political game? Sacrificing the individuals for the greater good? (Except this area is exclusively white anyway, and its not likely to change anytime soon as other ehtnic groups do not move there, or will not stay there) Or is it that the LA did not consider their actions, or did not care, or maybe racist themselves?

[monkeysmama]

The issue of LAs, council houses & race is very often an emotive one. I grew up on an estate in the East End which was very white -the kind of the far right idealise and talk about people leaving their doors open and looking out for their neighbours (as if only white people do this)

In the early 90s the first of the 3 tower blocks was knocked down and people were relocated to the new, nice low rise blocks that head been built to rehouse everyone. The rumours, letters to the local papers and eventually even a far right led campaign which led to them gaining a seat on the local council ensued alledging that Asian families had been moved into the new houses before the white people. I notice that these arguments have now altered slightly as a large part of the current immigration is from white countries - but the message is still the same - "they're taking our homes". Of course the reality was that around 40% of the residents were non-white and less than 20% of the people rehoused were non white (although this only came out a few years later). Non white people who're as English as any of us, went to school with me, whose parents worked with mine, paid taxes etc etc. The reality is that people from Black Asian & Minority Ethnic communities - particuarly those from places like Pakistan and Bangladesh who make up almost 40% of residents in some areas of London - are the poorest in the country doing the lowest paid jobs many of us would never dream of (get a bus through East or South East London in the early hours of the morning and you hardly hear any English)

The lesson I learned from my estate was this. The "community" spirit that the racists referred to did exist but they weren't part of it (& hardly any of them lived on the estates either!) - insetad it existed among people from all different backgrounds and countries who'd been thrown together because of where they lived but fought proudly every day for a better life for us kids. That must be a fundamental human right?

Surely there is only one answer - more affordable houses should be built & less of the remaining council houses should be sold off. The same estate I grew up on is now out of the financial reach of most local people (whatever their colour & ethnic origin). It isn't a nice area of London - it is the kind of place you live because you have to and make the most of it. Complaining about this isn't wrong - it is wrong that only a certain proportion of new builds have to be "affordable" (how can we live in a world where our terminology reflects the fact we're building property "normal" people can't afford!)

[DirtySexyMummy]

I have nothing to add other than that I agree on both points, and it is a terribly sad story.