to be able to expect my kids to play safely in our own back garden?

(185 Posts)
RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 14:59:08

Grrr! We have a back garden, which backs onto woodland which we also own. It is lovely and, I thought, a great place for our kids, as I grew up in the house next door to this, and loved the outdoor space as a child. At the moment dd1 and dd2 have part of the garden almost completely fenced off to play in. They are 4 and 2.5. We also have 2 rabbits in a big run, that the kids love to play with, sandpits, chutes a playhouse etc. It's not a huge garden, although we have a lot of space which I hope eventually to turn into more garden for them to play in. So far so good.

Unfortunately, some idiot who lives way over the other side of our woods has a Japanese Akita, a Rottweiler and a Staffie x, which he seems to make no attempt to keep in. They have burst their way into our garden and attempted to kill our rabbits, causing huge damage to the run and garden.Having caught them in the garden 4 times, we informed the police, who told us they can't do anything unless we know whose dogs they are. (From this logic, don't bother telling the police if your house gets burgled, unless you know who did it) So we found out who owned the dogs, which wasn't hard, as it turns out they have been reported to the police several times by other neighbours and belong to the local hard-cases (drug-runners, murderers etc). Having passed this information on to the police, I was told there is nothing we can do unless we can prove they are his dogs! (So even if you find out who burgled your house, don't bother going to the police until you have detailed your fingerprint evidence and run your DNA samples)

I am not frightened of dogs. I am a vet with 12 years experience, and as such I do know a bit about these breeds. Enough to know they should be treated with caution, and never out without an owner on their own, never mind in a pack! Amongst the useful suggestions the police gave me were:
Fence off all our ground (would only cost about £2000-£3000, no problem!!!!)
Put poison down- I have 3 small children and 2 dogs of our own! Besides "is that legal?" "Oh, er, not sure!"
Phone the dog warden- he came 2d later!!
Check and see if the owners name was on the collar- yeah, as its standing growling at me with its mates, I'll just casually sashay up to it and grab it by the collar...
I've taken photos and we finally scraped together enough money to reinforce the fence and make it higher. Was just starting to relax, even though I know the beasts are still crashing about in our woods/ driveway, until I saw the bloody rottie sauntering past my kitchen window today, round my front garden, through the front gate and round the back again!! I saw red and chased it, (breaking my good mop in the process-grr!), and DH has had to give up his afternoon off to get stuff to block up the bit beside the front gate now!! Its like living in Fort Knox, and I STILL don't feel safe letting my kids out the back. Yes, I am usually out there with them, but even if I was, and they were playing with the rabbits would I be quick enough if these dogs came back?

I KNOW their owners might say they are "big softies" (heard that sooo many times, usually before a dog goes for my face!) but surely they should not be roaming unsupervised in a street where kids often kick a football/ ride bikes/ walk smaller dogs? In fact, I know they shouldn't. the police say they have spoken to the owner, but that is all they can do. I don't want to get involved with these people if I can help it- by all accounts they are nasty and dangerous, and my dh is away quite a lot. I asked the police to stress to the owners that they were going into gardens where there were small children, but that doesn't seem to have pricked their conscience. I could understand the dogs escaping once, or even twice, but over the last year they have been in my garden about 12 times! Obviously I don't want to hurt the dogs, as a vet, and , more importantly, for fear of retribution!! But I am getting so angry now- for once even the rottie was scared of me today, although possibly because it didn't have the others with it!

Any ideas??

donnie Wed 27-Feb-08 15:01:09

poison. Definitely.

clarinsgirl Wed 27-Feb-08 15:03:19

No helpful suggestions but I'll watch with interest...

clarinsgirl Wed 27-Feb-08 15:06:04

My DS (nearly 3) is now terrified of dogs thanks to the dreadful creature next door that snarls and barks if anyone walks down the side of the house or goes in the back garden. He didn't play in our garden all last year sad. This year I'm going to take it up with the neighbour though - just not sure ofthe right way to go about it...

kerala Wed 27-Feb-08 15:06:13

Poor poor you. Had a similar thing (though not as drastic it was just a staffordshire type animal coming over the huge fence we had to pay for) but horrid and frightening enough. And it makes you feel so invaded, as well as frightened of being attacked. Not to mention the lovely dog turds that are left all over the garden for your child to get covered in. It gets me so angry.

Anyway - have you tried the council? Some councils are pretty effective now at dealing with anti-social neighbours and nuisance dogs can come under this remit. Our council has a special phone line on which to report this, and the nuisance neighbour booklet we had had a special section on dogs. If they are council tenants the council are in an even stronger position to take action. Worth a try if you've got nowhere with the police.

scampadoodle Wed 27-Feb-08 15:06:59

No, you can't leave your DCs on their own with dogs, even ones you know. & why shouldn't you be able to leave your DCs to play alone in the garden without watching them like a hawk all the time?
Aren't these restricted breeds needing to be muzzled in public? Doesn't sound like the owner gives a toss, mind (& with police attitudes like that, no wonder. Do they want another child killed or maimed?)
Sorry, have no suggestions, but I sympathise sad

beaniesteve Wed 27-Feb-08 15:11:59

You cannot Poison them!

Build a bigger fence right at the end of your woodland. I know it's expensive but that would be the quickest and most simple way to protect your children, rabbits and garden - surely?

cupsoftea Wed 27-Feb-08 15:14:31

would the rspca help as he's not taking proper care of his animals? These dogs need to be rehomed. Could you take photos of the dogs so he can't deny they are his.

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 15:17:20

Well you could poison them and infact I would do just that.

Buy some offcuts of meat and add the poison and place in tubs at end of garden (over the other side of the fence)

I would then keep my own dogs in and the kids of course and wait and see what happens.

Sorry but these dogs are capable of killing and we have had our own nasty experiences such as this where the police and dog wardens have been next to useless. It seems that round where we live, a child must die or be ripped sideways before they will act angry

JackanoryGirl Wed 27-Feb-08 15:18:46

Another vote for the poison idea here.

Imagine how you would feel if any of these animals attacked your child (or someone else's) and you were left with the thought that you should have poisoned it while you had the chance.

1 dead dog Vs 1 dead child.
Not much of a contest obviously.

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 15:23:08

The council have been no help- the dog warden didn't even come round the back, just drove up the street and back down, and told me they had patrolled the area.

They're not restricted breeds, but it is illegal for them to be out without supervision. Under the DDA, the police can take action against any dog that can be seen as a threat, but the police don't seem keen to do this- This family who own the dogs are well-known to them. They asked me if I could catch the dogs/ dart them (I'm not a safari vet!!!)The whole thing is making me sooo mad!

I'm now rowing with my dh, cos he wants to fence off an even smaller part of the garden for our lo's to play in, so they have even less room, but it will more secure. This makes me so angry, that we have to spend money we don't have and compromise our house/ garden that we worked our asses off to buy so that our kids would have a great place to grow up, putting fences all over the shop and leaving our kids with a garden the size of a postage stamp. I KNOW their safety comes first, but this is making me crazy!!

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 15:23:24

What is the best way to poison a dog grin

ruty Wed 27-Feb-08 15:24:50

in your shoes i would want to poison them but not sure of your legal position or any nasty retaliation from this awful people. Building a higher fence seems the only solution to me. sad

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 15:25:23

I would happily kill these dogs, but don't think they would eat poisoned meat, and too worried for the kids/ wildlife/ my own dogs.

Would happily shoot it, but frightened of repurcussions. I'd love to see it on the road, I would run it down!! But ours is a very slow road with speedbumps and I'm sure it'd just leg it into the woods. Besides its numpty owners would just get more...

clarinsgirl Wed 27-Feb-08 15:25:42

You can't poison them. That would make you as bad as the dog owner. I feel very strongly that dogs should be kept under control and muzzled but that is the responsibility of the owner, not the dogs. Ultimately it may not solve the problem anyway as he would probably just go out and buy more dogs.

Do you think you could talk to him?

Walkthedinosaur Wed 27-Feb-08 15:26:11

I'm sorry I can't offer any advice, but know how you feel. A couple of years ago my neighbours dog was attacked in the field behind my house by a Staffie which was out of control. My neighbour had her dog on a lead and her toddler in a backpack. The damn dog ripped her Weimeraners(sp)throat out and she later had to be put to sleep, it was terrible. Anyhow, reports to the police and dog wardens by my neighbour and several of us who walked in the field with our toddlers led to absolutely nothing. The police/dog warden refused to do anything, my neighbour who lost her dog was victimised by the owners of the Staffie (car damaged and things like that) and we all lost our place to walk our dogs and children because of this crazy staffie. As far as I'm aware it still wanders around freely.

Could you tell the police that you were attacked by the pack in your garden and fought them off with a the mop, then go to your local paper about being the parent of toddlers and being attacked in your garden with no action being taken by the police? Aren't these dogs on the Dangerous Dogs list or something and can only go out muzzled. A local dog came into my garden last week and ripped the front off my rabbit hutch and killed her. I'm so upset and so are my DC's, I would hate any little one's to have to go through that.

ruty Wed 27-Feb-08 15:27:11

i wouldn't talk to the owner/s. If they are violent or anti social people you're not going to get anywhere and why put yourself in a vulnerable position.

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 15:28:30

We have a similar situation here where a dog has been attacking other dogs for several years. A Court order was put in place against the owners a few years ago saying that the dog should be muzzled and kept on a lead but the owners ignore it.

We have been victims twice and our second dog needed many weeks of surgery to recover.

Now I also know that this dog has shown aggression to humans (children) in the past but the police won't/can't do a thing (the owner is an ex policeman - surprise surprise).

Local residents have petitioned the police and statements have been made but nothing will be done until that dog kills a child.

I no longer allow my own children to walk our dog (incase this other dog is around) and they are banned from our local playpark incase the bump into this animal on his walks.

It is so wrong that we live in fear like this as have many local residents for the past 5 years.

So if I seem callous when I ask about dog pouisoning then tough shit. I will not stand by and allow a child to be killed by this animal.

MyEye Wed 27-Feb-08 15:30:48

how awful.
I'd write to my MP explaining that the council and police aren't that bothered, though it's illegal for these breeds to be off the lead unsupervised. And then hassle him/her like mad, follow up at a surgery if necc. (Surely any sane person would think this is outrageous?)

southutsire Wed 27-Feb-08 15:31:51

Go to the local press and embarrass the police into acting? Our paper recently had a piece on dogs that were terrorising the neighbourhood and had killed someone else's dog (5 all belonged to the same man).

Re poison, if the woods beyond the OP's garden are a public place it would be totally irresponsible to put poison there.

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 15:33:25

The woods are part of the ops property (although behind a fence). The dogs are allowed to tresspass there.

clarinsgirl Wed 27-Feb-08 15:34:43

Ah, just re-read the OP and seen the bit about drug runners and murderers - probably best not to go round for a chat then wink. You said in the OP that you owned the woodland - could you fence it off at the far end using barbed wire which may not cost so much and do the trick? or look here

BabiesEverywhere Wed 27-Feb-08 15:35:46

What about drugging them and taking them to an animal shelter for rehoming, one in the next county if you can drive that far.

Maybe if they lose a few dogs, they'll start to supervise them.

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 15:36:36

I like the idea of barbed wire - can't be that expensive

And then when you have them trapped in the wire - poison them grin

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 15:38:00

Or call in the Dog Whisperer (and we can all troop round an oggle at him while he says 'shhh' and 'there you go') <swoon>

sophiewd Wed 27-Feb-08 15:38:13

Press, MP, RSPCA, DH has a rifle with a silencer(great for the rats) if you would like to borrow him

southutsire Wed 27-Feb-08 15:38:31

You been reading Sherlock Holmes, pollyp? grin

Carmenere Wed 27-Feb-08 15:40:28

Actually I think that drugging them and bringing them far, far away is a great idea. As a vet you can probably do this responsibly. And if they replace them, I would just do it again. I see no benefit in confronting/antagonising ignorant violent types who obviously have no intention of living within the law. Why on earth should your lives be endangered and your enjoyment of your garden be curtailed because of the irresponsibility of others? Do it.

Blueskythinker Wed 27-Feb-08 15:42:52

My quality of life is dominated by our neighbour's dog - it barks & snarls at us if we open our back door, let alone try to enjoy our garden. My DD 2.9 becomes hysterical when she goes into our garden. Although in my darker moments I fantasise about doing the dog in, I don't think I could actually poison it (partly through fear of getting caught).

But if the dog was actually getting into my garden, I'm sorry, illegal or not, I would be taking direct action. There have been so many reports of dogs attacking children, and adults trying to intervene and not being able to get the dog off. Imagine the horror & consequences of what could happen if the dog(s) attacks one of the children.

I know this is probably against Vets Ethics, but surely there must be some way of discreetly darting the animals from afar, and it being humane?

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 15:46:20

Thanks, girls, at least I know I'm not being stupid! I am just so frustrated! I did think of poisoning them with chocolate- surely you can't get done for leaving a few bars of dark chocolate about the place??? And it IS very toxic to dogs, might just make them sick, but maybe if they puke and crap all over their owners carpet every time they've been out, he won't be so keen to let them out! It makes me worry about other kids in the street too. we are reinforcing fences- again! to try to keep our kids safe, but there are other kids play in our woods. I might write to the local paper, both as an appeal to the owners and as a warning to local kids. I would HATE to read about some child being disfigured, or worse, by these dogs.

Walkthedinosaur- so sorry to hear about your bunny sad I'm amazed our have survived the onslaught they've had from these dogs, once in the middle of the night. There are teethmarks all over the hutch. Thank God dh had reinforced it against foxes. One of my nighbours advised me to get rid of the rabbits, as they were an obvious draw to these dogs, but I just can't break the kids hearts like that sad sad

TheDullWitch Wed 27-Feb-08 15:50:10

You're a vet. Can't you get some tranquiliser dart thingies. Then entice them in, put them to sleep. Then take them in your car and dump them somewhere very very far away...

<heh heh heh>

Blueskythinker Wed 27-Feb-08 15:50:50

I am astonished! Dark chocolate is toxic to dogs? Is this really true? Off to the shops to get someone Black Magic wink

Youcannotbeserious Wed 27-Feb-08 15:52:09

As a dog lover, this is not something I would undertake lightly. BUT... If these dogs were coming onto my property and I was otherwise powerless to stop them, then, yes, I would consider poison.

Not 'killer' poison, but rotten dog food - something enough to give a dog a bad tummy for a couple of days.

A lot of owners will class thier own dog as a softie. I would have classed the dog I grew up with as such. ANd he was. To me. he was also a little bast*ard to other people / dogs. I'm talking 30 years ago, and I do think now we'd have to put him down.

He was killed with poison when he was 19YO (the poison wouldn't have killed a younger / healthier dog).

a dog can be wonderful to it's own owner and completely unmangeable to someone else.

onebatmother Wed 27-Feb-08 15:52:20

another vote for poisoning

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 15:53:01

I had heard about that (didnt know whether you needed to give them milk or dark though)

How much to kill say ..... a german sheppherd sized animal grin

southeastastra Wed 27-Feb-08 15:53:45

dark chocolate and laxative. what an awful situation. why should you get rid of your rabbits!
report them to the rspca they're not looking after them properly and they're a danger to others!

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 15:54:36

There must a mafia syle set up somewhere though, where you can pay someone to discreetly 'wack' a neighbours dog grin

onebatmother Wed 27-Feb-08 15:55:17

I think writing to the paper is a v good idea btw - killer dogs are always a good story and if you hit a no-news week you might find it gets half a page - journos will go to council and police to put them on the spot. all good.
even better if it's 'worried residents' rather than just yuou.

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 15:55:29

I have looked into drugging them- problem is, i would need a special licence for a dart-gun, and I am about the worst shot in the land!! Another problem is that the sedative isn't instant, so the thing might have time to run most of the way home befor it kicked in, unless I used another sedative, but that one can kill humans!!

I'd love to fence off our bit of land, but our woods run right along the back of all the houses and we only own our wee bit. there is a burn through the bottom, and we only own halfway to the burn, so can't really fence there, and, of course, these buggers come from across the burn!

I have fantasised about lassoing them, hanging them then dumping them in the road and running over them, before phoning the police and telling them I had hit a dog on the road! So my ethics have kind of gone with the wind, I'm afraid!! Having spent a large part of my career putting dogs to sleep for biting, I would have no qualms about ending these dogs' days! Today, I was so angry I was ready (foolishly) to take the thing on with my mop!

TheDullWitch Wed 27-Feb-08 15:55:53

I must say, I would get a gun. Maybe a taser to start with.

southeastastra Wed 27-Feb-08 15:56:54

get a high pressure water hose and hose them away. though they probably wouldn't get the hint would they and still come back. plant brambles?

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 15:57:44

OOh a taser sounds fun! Maybe I could get a cattle prod somewhere...

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 15:58:36

I have felt exactly the same as you RedJools. It is so frightening to be in this situation with little or no support from the police.

Have also found myself fantasising (as you can tell from some of my disturbing posts!!)

Seriously though, if that dog harmed one of my children, there would be very little to stop me murdering the owners - that is how frustrating and scary the whole situation has become.

SoupDragon Wed 27-Feb-08 16:03:35

I'm utterly disgusted that you lot consider poisoning a dog is OK.

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 16:03:42

I am with you on that, PPP. DH just managed to talk me down from driving round to their house and having it out with them, drug dealers or not!! If anything were to happen to my kids at the jaws of these bastards the ruckus I would raise would be heard up and down this country- and the police would be the first to get it in the neck!

PS Clarinsgirl- thanks for the link! I like the sound of those dog-chaser things, might treat myself to one of those AND a cattle prod!

TheDullWitch Wed 27-Feb-08 16:05:42

Oh yes, a high pressure hose really HURTS!

I fantasise about abducting the very small but incredibly yappy dog next door. Basically it is an hysteric. Every moment it spends alone in the garden it barks. In the summer (with windows open) it wakes me at 6am if they let it out then.

But my neighbour is lovely and puts up with my children's noise.

But an evil dog! It must die!!!

TheDullWitch Wed 27-Feb-08 16:05:54

Oh yes, a high pressure hose really HURTS!

I fantasise about abducting the very small but incredibly yappy dog next door. Basically it is an hysteric. Every moment it spends alone in the garden it barks. In the summer (with windows open) it wakes me at 6am if they let it out then.

But my neighbour is lovely and puts up with my children's noise.

But an evil dog! It must die!!!

TheDullWitch Wed 27-Feb-08 16:06:34

Sorry, my computer had a fit.

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 16:14:26

Good suggestions guys! The problem is I sometimes don't see the dogs for months and then I'm totally unprepared for them when they appear and I crash out shouting to try to chase them away before engaging brain! Must be more rational next time! Cos once I've chased them away, there is nothing I can do, except seethe! angry!!

Sam100 Wed 27-Feb-08 16:15:19

Please do not poison the dogs - I think it could get you into a lot of trouble with what sound like not very nice people and probably with the RSPCA too.

Have you looked into any of the sonic type deterrents - there are quite a few around - some that are hand held and some you can set up in the garden.

The hose is a good idea too.

I don't know if it works on dogs but have heard that male urine is one way of keeping foxes out of your garden. Dont know if this is an old wives tale but could try getting hubby to go and wee all around where the dogs come in!grin

Blueskythinker Wed 27-Feb-08 16:17:11

I don't think anyone is actually saying it is OK to poison a dog, (perhaps except Polly), however, given the circumstances, what else can reasonably be done? The OP has tried the police, dog warden, fencing & even shooing the dog out herself. This is a situation which cannot continue, and there are very few options left.

Are you seriously saying that a dog's life is more important than a child's?

Carmenere Wed 27-Feb-08 16:19:06

For the record i don't think you should poison the dogs, I think you should drug them and take them far away to be re-homed. Can you not administer a heavy sedative via some meat and then keep them in your garden til it takes effect?
Killing them would be wrong, it is the owners who are being irresponsible. the dogs are just being dogs.

I think it is utterly wrong (and evil) to suggest poisoning. My problem is with the cunty owners, they are scum. Dogs are the responsibility of their owners.

Complain more/take out a private prosecution against them/fence off the part you reasonably can - if you have to put a gate in for the children to access the burn and the woods then you may have to suck it up.

Poisoning, utterly wrong imo.

kittywise Wed 27-Feb-08 16:20:35

If you could poison them without being found, do so, bloody dogs grr angry
You could get an air rifle and shoot them? After all you would be protecting your children on your own property. I bloody would.

Tortington Wed 27-Feb-08 16:23:36

you could give them laxatives

cestlavie Wed 27-Feb-08 16:24:02

Could you hire a lion from somewhere? Imagine the look on the owners' faces when the lion trots round to theirs with half a rottweiler hanging out its mouth...

Medicine, taste of, your own...

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 16:28:11

The difficulty with sedating them via food is that I would be prepared to bet these beasts wouldn't touch it. (Whereas my own stupid beagles would hoover it up!) and its difficult to get dosages right- a dog that is half-sedated is actually more dangerous than one which isn't, as it can suddenly leap into action having lulled you into a false sense of security- seen that happen a few times!

I know we have to suck it up and put in more fencing, but I still worry about the kids when they are in the driveway, or other kids in the street. It is a very child-friendly (private) road, and I know my 2 will want to go further afield than the fenced off bit of garden when they get a bit bigger.

I am actually too scared to prosecute them privately. Lots of different people have told me not to mess with these people, and my dh is in the navy, so away a lot- I don't want the house burnt to the ground over this, and they might just be crazy enough..!

Considering an anonymous letter to local paper, though, and writing to MP.

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 16:28:54

cestlavie- love the lion idea!! You don't happen to have one, do you??? grin

WallOfSilence Wed 27-Feb-08 16:30:13

Call the local paper.

Get their journalist down.

You say you already have photographs... imagine a page with the photograph on & your little rabbits & your dd's worried little face......

"Worried residents report sightings of dangerous dogs"

Don't poison them though, that'd just be cruel.

Blueskythinker Wed 27-Feb-08 16:31:48

Um, quite seriously, the lion thing has prompted me into remembering something - I think lion's pee is supposed to scare dogs. Is there a zoo nearby where you could get some. What about your vet chums, could any of them help?

This makes me soooo angry angry. You have done everything you possibly can to get help and no-one will help you - in this day and age when so many attacks happening on children are being publicised??? Of course you can't go to the papers as you would be named and from the sound of them you need to keep away from the owners!!! I know it probably goes against all you belive in but your beautiful children must come first - and no, i don't believe you could do much even if you were there with your little angels if the dogs got hold of one of them, and that doesn't bear thinking about does it? Do what you have to do to protect your children in my opinion. Good luck xx

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 16:32:13

Laurie, it took 18 months for local residents here to have a court order applied to the owners of a vicious dog. The owners then promptly ignored it and have been doing so ever since. In that timemore and more attacks happen on an almost weekly basis.

Of course poisoning is wrong for fucks sake angry but what the hell do you expect people to do when no one is prepared to help.

We are not talking about yappy dogs, or owners who allow their dogs to shit on the verge, we are talking about vicious, nasty and dangerous animals with equally nasty owners and a police force who refuse to intervene.

I am not proud of the fact that I would consider poisoning an animal, it is barbaric and cruel behavious at the very least and would also potentially put me at risk of prosecution. However, the police, the warden, the press and the MPS have not been able to help and we are literally banging our heads against a brick wall.

Katie3677 Wed 27-Feb-08 16:32:26

I'm with Walkthedinosaur and southutsire, the press are a very effective way of bringing attention to things and will force the police to act. If you start by writing a letter to the Editor, I'm sure you will find that a number of other people in the area are having the same problem, and it will probably end up snowballing into a campaign. Good luck, I love dogs, but often have issues with owners.

clarinsgirl Wed 27-Feb-08 16:33:07

Think it might be Lion poo that scares cats - not sure about wee or dogs grin

MadamePlatypus Wed 27-Feb-08 16:35:34

When I was a student we lived next door to a Rottweiller who would jump over the fence, poo and stop me from going to the shed to get my bike. We thought about having a few sheep in the garden so that the neighbours could be prosecuted on the grounds of sheep worrying...

Could you contact the RSPCA? They aren't being responsible owners.

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 16:36:32

We had a very effective campaign running here, a local resident took it on and collected statements from over 20 dog walkers (12 of whom had suffered attacks on there own dogs and the remaining 8 who had been witnesses). The press also ran an article and this prompted more interest.

All of this happened after the court order had been issued (which the owners had ignored, so effectivley breaking the law on a daily basis anyway)

He's stiilout there there, off the lead and not muzzled.

We still have to avoid him and it effect us on a daily basis.

newgirl Wed 27-Feb-08 16:37:40

I think wire fence into the wood area is best idea - ok its is expensive but it protects the kids from all kinds of things - i would be nervous about oddbods wandering past an open space

good for the rabbits too?

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 16:40:56

I'm chuckling at the thought of going to the zoo and asking for some lion poo!! It just might work...

And deffo going to write to local paper- if just to let off steam and warn others in the area!

the police really have been hopeless! Conversation last time I phoned:
"hello, I want to report a dangerous dog in my garden, trying to kill my rabbits"
"You need to phone the Dog Warden"
"It's 6.30pm, will the dog warden be available?"
" Well I don't know!"
"In that case, could you make a report and send someone round?"
"(sigh) What kind of dog is it?"
"It's a rottweiler"
"Is it a big dog or a small dog?"
"It's big- it's a rottweiler. I am a vet, and I know it is a rottweiler. It is in my garden right now, and the police said last time to phone them straight away so they might see it/ catch it"
"What colour is it?"
"ITS ROTTWEILER COLOURED! Can you send someone out please!"
"There's no need to get like that with me. I need some more details..."

By the time the police came round, 2hours later and said, "see if we could just catch it.." I had to bite my tongue to say nothing!

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 16:44:26

It's ridculous though isn't it. The owners are breaking the law - how difficult can it be.

But no, instead you have to think about surrounding your home with barbed wire and lion poo, carrying a tranquilser dart with you and planning a moonlight sorty out of the county to foist the vicious bastards off onto someone else!

Which is why I find myself favouring the poison method (I seriously do!)

mollymawk Wed 27-Feb-08 16:45:29

Well, this is terrible for you and I am shocked that the police are being so useless. Another vote for the press/MP option.

Chequers Wed 27-Feb-08 16:47:00

Message withdrawn

If it was just 'dogs off the lead in your local park' or 'dogs on the street' it would be bad enough, but for them to be actually in your garden and the police not do anything is outrageous.

I don't think there is anything morally wrong with poisoning, in that situation, though I guess it would be impractical if they're not out all the time and there are other dogs (incl yours) that go in the wood.

southeastastra Wed 27-Feb-08 16:52:38

i've had a brainwave! dig a trap. (but tell the children)

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 16:52:44

I think that is what makes me so angry, PPP!! THEY are the ones breaking the law, but all the police can suggest is things I should do! I KNOW my priority is to protect my kids, but that money we are spending on fencing is money I was hoping might let us have our first family holiday in 4 years angry angry, and it's just because of someone else's ignorance and stupidity! THEY are the bad guys, but they can do what they like because they, apparently, live outside the law, so I have to bow down to it and suck it up. it really blows!

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 16:55:32

I would dig a trap, southeastastra, but my dh is the clumsiest man in the world....! Have wondered if the cat protection people who trap cats had a great big trap I could borrow....!
I did think about taking the rabbits out of the hutch and leaving it open so they jump in, then trapping them ijn there (its a huge hutch/ run!) As I say, only problem is you never know when they are coming.

What would happen if you did trap them in your hutch?

southeastastra Wed 27-Feb-08 16:57:08

yes maybe bad idea. you may be able to get some sort of trap though. aw feel for your rabbits.

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 16:57:11

I really do sympathise. Our vets fees have been huge and I would consider a private prosecution (to recoup my costs) but that leaves us in a very vulnerable situation as these people would know who we were and we live literally just rund the corner from them.

We also had to cancel a holiday because the dog was so badly injured that we couldn't put him into kennels.

Even our driveway isn't safe anymore because he walks the dog down the footpath right alongside and I simply don't trust him or the dog. The owner gets a perverse enjoyment out of seeing his dog injure other animals.

What the hell do you do with peole like that?

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 16:58:23

Good question!! Phone the police and say- "here you go!" and go make myself a coffee!!

I've considered getting a dog catcher (stick with noose on the end), which would be fine if there was just the one, but not keen on wrestling with a rottweiler while its Japaneses Akita mate looks on!

Chequers Wed 27-Feb-08 17:00:24

Message withdrawn

Chequers Wed 27-Feb-08 17:00:26

Message withdrawn

And what would the police do then? I mean, would they just pop it in the van, take it back round to its owners and say 'Here you go, mind you don't do it again' (which they will) or would it go into a pound and they put a prosecution in process?

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 17:00:52

PPP- huge sympathies. At least the fuckwitts who own these beasts live quite a bit away from us, and are probably blissfully ignorant of us. I keep thinking that people like that must have more and bigger enemies than you or I, and hopefully they'll end up moving on or be found floating face-down in the local pond!! I still have some faith in karma!

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 17:03:11

KI6IH- I know, that's the bugger! They would probably take it to the pound, I think- after all I can't PROVE they are his dogs, can I. There must be LOTS of people with this exact pack of aggressive dogs... They'd have to pay £50 to get it out of the pound, but whether that would phase them or not, I don't know.

BITCAT Wed 27-Feb-08 17:04:15

This is the problem in this country is that the authorities act after an incident and not before..too late once a child has been injured or worse!! I would be very tempted to take action myself and take the law into my own hands!! As reasonable force to protect yourself, your property and your family is allowed...i would ring the local council next time..surely they can remove the dogs and take them to the kennels and then wait for owners to come collect them..then they would know whose dogs it is and take some action!!!

It sounds like that might be a good option if it's possible though - if it went to the pound it would hopefully put the wind up them about letting it out in future, but maybe wouldn't result in vindictive revenge against you the way poisoning would (if they worked out who'd done it).

beaniesteve Wed 27-Feb-08 17:07:25

I cannot believe that people are talking about poisoning animals which have not doen any wrong. What a cowardly way to go about things. At the very least be adult enough to have a word with the owners about boundaries. if you cannot bring yourself to do that then build a fence. Surely it's worth it to protect your children, even if it is a pain!

cestlavie Wed 27-Feb-08 17:08:16

Following on from the lion idea, would it be possible to make a small, but incredibly highly charged electric fence. Nothing too expensive, just a couple of hundred yards of highly conductive wire from Homebase, a few cheap metal poles, a fork, a plug socket and voila.

<Woof woof woof woof>

"Okay, honey, you can let the kids out again now!"

BabiesEverywhere Wed 27-Feb-08 17:09:16

We use to trap feral cats using this trap, the same site has many different sized ones.

Get them rehomed, they will end up inside with loving families with any luck.

I think 'trying to get into the hutch to kill someone's rabbits' does count as doing wrong.
I can't believe the sentimentality about dogs on this thread - everyone who thinks it is so wrong to poison the dog is vegetarian or would never eat battery-farmed pork, I suppose hmm

BabiesEverywhere Wed 27-Feb-08 17:11:17

I also disagree with the poisioning comments, it is not the dogs fault that they are left to run wild in a pack. Seperated in new homes with responsible dog friendly families, there is no reason that these dogs can't become better behaved.

BITCAT Wed 27-Feb-08 17:16:15

cestlavie i like the idea..would certainly get the message eventually!! The point is beaniesteve is that they shouldn't have to shell out that sort of money, because of mindless idiots that do not look after there dogs properly and cannot keep them in their own yard and have you seen the sort of damage these dogs can do to a child!! I really don't know why anyone would want to keep those kind of dogs anyway and aren't some of them banned now anyway!!

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 17:20:53

Beaniesteve- from what I have heard the owner of these dogs is a complete nutcase! the police have already had a word- no effect. Its not about being cowardly, but I really don't think I want myself, or my kids to be on this guy's RADAR, when the chances of him listening to me are next to zero. nIts hard to describe our property, and we have fenced it as much as we can, but the beauty of it is that we live in shared woodland, and we (the residents) don't have boundaries as such. It would literally cost thousands to put afence round our bit and we would need to fence halfway across a stream. Similarly with barbed wire- I wouldn't really want to harm the wildlife that live in the woods. DH is out there as we speak re-fencing. The dogs have behaved threateningly, tried to kill my rabbits and caused huge damage. Should I just wait until the day they come into the garden while my kids are playing with the rabbits? Would you? I don't want to poison the dogs- but not through sympathy with them! THere are hundreds of nice dogs get put to sleep every day, or get hit on roads, because of idiot owners- sad but true. These dogs WILL eventually get into trouble, one way or another. Even if a dog is not aggressive it could cause a road traffic accident by running out on the road, which could result in the death or injury of another person. Its simply not acceptable for tem to be running about on their own, as any reasonable owner who loves and values their dogs will tell you

Vacua Wed 27-Feb-08 17:22:13

aren't some of what banned now? akitas and rottweilers?

OP: just wondering how you keep the rabbits safe from foxes if the garden is not dog proof, and how can you keep your own dogs in?

beaniesteve Wed 27-Feb-08 17:23:10

"everyone who thinks it is so wrong to poison the dog is vegetarian or would never eat battery-farmed pork"

I'm not a vegetarian and I don't buy only organic free range meat. But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to think a load of people suggesting someone poison a dog is right!

What would you do if you had a cat and someone poisoned it because it peed on their rose bushes? I know that the OP says they could have killed their rabbits but I would say that if she poisoned some dogs and someone found out it was her she could be prosecuted.

It's not sentimentality its suggesting to other adults that perhaps reasonable adult behaviour and responses should be excercised. There are many many things the OP can do to protect her children from teh percieved danger before resorting to poisoning another persons animal.

to be honest I have found the snobbery displayed in this thread towards the dog Owners quite horrible so it really doesn't surprise me that so many people think resorting to Poison is an acceptable suggestion.

BITCAT Wed 27-Feb-08 17:23:14

kathyis6incheshigh well said!! There is too much putting animal safety before our own and that of children!! If i thort my children were in danger and i don't have the money to build fences or anything like that, then i would take any action to make sure my children were safe..if that means poisoning them so be it!! My children will always come 1st and foremost and in any case shouldn't the owners of the dogs pay for the fence, it's them thats causing the problem!! Mindless yobs!!

beaniesteve Wed 27-Feb-08 17:24:04

"I really don't know why anyone would want to keep those kind of dogs anyway and aren't some of them banned now anyway!!"


And so another uninformed prejudice is exposed ...

Beanie - of course you can think whatever you like. I just find it really odd that people are upset by the idea of killing a dog which is at risk of killing another animal (or, God forbid, even a child) when they're quite happy to battery-farm and kill equally intelligent animals. Killing a cat for pissing on your roses would be vindictive and pointless, I agree, but this is about trying to stop something terrible happening.

beaniesteve Wed 27-Feb-08 17:31:45

but ...

oh, I dunno.

There are lots of things I could do to 'stop something terrible happening' which would be wrong and premature.

I guess I just see things differently.

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 17:33:29

Beaniesteve- I dont think you have read the OP correctly: the dog owners are KNOWN drug dealers, and one of them has been up for murder , twice!! I have been warned by several people NOT to even think about taking this family on!! Its not about snobbery, on my part, its about fear!

Vacua- the foxes never bother our bunnies. The hutch is fox-proof, so they don't seem to bother trying. i ahve seen foxes walk through our garden loads of times and they ignore the rabbit hutch! Our own dogs are never left out in the garden on their own- we take them walks through the woods occasionally, but usually take them longer walks at the local country park.

Somne breeds are banned, and rightly so. I love dogs as much as the next person (kinda goes with the job!), but there is a big difference between breeds. Yes, all dogs can nip/ bite, but its the difference in the outcome that is important. Few Jack Russells have killed children, although many have nipped. The power and strength of these dogs is not to be shrugged off lightly. They do have breed traits as well, that should be recognised and respected. In as much as you are I are not allowed to drive an armoured tank down the street, some breeds are banned, because it is thought few people will be able to control them satisfactorily

Vacua Wed 27-Feb-08 17:33:59

Nobody really thinks it is ok to poison the dogs, the OP has already stated her own objections to it (danger to wildlife, own dogs and so on). I am a vegetarian so I am allowed to oppose that idea

Would like to know how she keeps her own dogs from getting out if these wayward ones can come in though?

Beanie - I suppose it's about how high you think the risk is of something actually happening. Statistically you are probably right - although you hear a lot in the news about dogs killing children we are still talking about a very few(!) cases a year.
Would still want to do something but I admit that may be to do with fear as much as reason.

BITCAT Wed 27-Feb-08 17:34:52

Dangerous dogs act!!! A lot of dog owners are very good ie clean up after them, dogs well behaved and on a lead!! Fantastic and i even notice some that pay extra attention and will be careful around children..i have no problem with these owners!! But our path down to school is always covered in dog poo..digusting!! We saw an old gentleman (about 60ish) walking along, let his dog crap and then continued to walk without a care in the world!! Yes he got told off by us..selfish!! it's these people that piss me off!! And it's always the old ones or snobs, that live in the big houses!!

BITCAT Wed 27-Feb-08 17:36:14

As far as i'm concerned, a few cases is too many!!

Vacua Wed 27-Feb-08 17:38:21

x posted, sorry - would it really be very expensive to put up some cheapish barrier (chicken wire?) around the garden? I don't think you should give up complaining to the police and dog warden and RSPCA and MP and local press and so on.

foxythesnowman Wed 27-Feb-08 17:40:50

This makes me SO angry angry

What is it going to take for the authorities to do there F%^&ing job properly and deal with it? Does there have to be a terrible incident before the police enforce the law or the Council to take care of it?

Don't settle for it. Email/write to the Council, take it higher. Make a mighty great fuss and kick off.

They are putting your family at risk by their failure to act.


Vacua Wed 27-Feb-08 17:43:34

what's the dangerous dogs act got to do with it?

TurkeyLurkey Wed 27-Feb-08 17:44:29

I know! Can you catch them, take their collars off and drive them to an RSPCA dog home far enough away from where you live so it won't get re-homed near you?

Practice putting on a sad face when you say to the rescue centre "oh we'd sooo love to keep them but its just not possible with my rabbits and children, what a shame, hope you find them a good home". Then scarper.

WorzselMummage Wed 27-Feb-08 17:45:27

i have to say that if it were my life these dogs were ruining i'd keep my head down so the owners don't know me and i'd poison the bastard creatures and hope they died in the woods.

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 18:01:56

We did look at chicken wire, but these guys could flatten it and it is a wide area, so would need lots of posts to keep it upright. DH has used stronger wire-stuff to block that last gap, and we are wiring all along the front of the garden- the back is already reinforced!! Thank you for all your sugestions and support ladies!! I'm off for tea now, but really appreciate all your help Jx

Wisteria Wed 27-Feb-08 18:13:36

Chicken wire would be like cotton to a Rottie anyway grin

I think you have no choice but to involve the press and your local MP; take photos of the offenders but please don't lay poison down.

It's not actually the dogs' fault that they have 'shit for brains' owners.

lucyellensmum Wed 27-Feb-08 18:18:18

From what you say RedJools i think poison is your only option: for the owners!!!!

lucyellensmum Wed 27-Feb-08 18:26:23

Otherwise get a lion!! I used to own a rottie, two in close succession BUT I would SHIT MY PANTS if i were to come across one without its owner, let alone with an akita and a ridgeback. I am very wary of akitas actually, they are perceived as big cuddly teddy bears, every one i have met has been aggressive to a certain degree. That and what the OP says about its owners (charming people) i cant begin to advise.

RedJools, have you tried approaching the owners at all - i mean, just because they are drug runners and murderers it doesnt mean they wont be nice polite young men who will do anything for their neighbours - i mean, look at the krays hmm, but they MIGHT listen to reason mighten they? Especially if you say you are worried for your children. ITs a long shot i know but,,,,,,,,

Sam100 Wed 27-Feb-08 18:35:02

How about this see here. Hopefully if you can make it uncomfortable for them to enter your property then they will change their habits and go somewhere else.

YANBU by the way - if these were normal folks you were dealing with I would suggest the civil courts and suing them for damage to your property but that does not sound like an option here.

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 18:40:12

I dont agree about trying to capture the dogs and rehome them further afield.

For one thing,you would be putting yourself in danger trying to get close to them and then you would essentially be passing the problem on to someone else.

If these dogs are intent on killing, then they will sad.

In the papers a few years ago, a mother struggled in vain to pull the family dog off of her child as it attacked her. Like most parents, she would have been prepared to have risked her own life to save her child and in these circumstances I guess that you wouldn't know your own strength. However, she was still unable to pull the dog off and her child died after 3 weeks in intensive care.

This is why I am so surprised that the police don't do more to help. For what its worth, we did involve the press and they ran a good half-page article. Local residents made annoymous statements but non of us were prepared to have our photographs taken because of this mans reputation. But as I said, he is still blantantly ignoring that and the court order and everything else. I guess having worked for the police for so many years himself, he knows that the law is such an ass and that he will get away with it.

DarthVader Wed 27-Feb-08 18:43:41

Sounds awful.

TBH I would build a BIG fence or move house.

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 19:18:09

The last time the police came round it was just after a child had been mauled by a rottie in the news, and they were a bit more sympathetic, although still couldn't do much. I asked them to explain the situation to the owner when they went to see him, and stress that it wasn't a case of us being p'd off with the dogs for pooing on our lawn, or even trying to get at our rabbits- it was the risk to our kids. I hoped this might twang some heart strings, but obviously not, as they've been back 4 times since sad

I REALLY don't want to move house, even if we could afford to, as this is my dream house and is next door to my dad, which has worked out beautifully for all of us. It is the street I grew up in, and I know all the neighbours. THis is the only thing ruining it. sad My only hope is that these people will either lose the dogs or that they will move- you never know!

WorzselMummage Wed 27-Feb-08 19:46:51

are the owners of the dogs council tennants ?

you could always try complaining about them to the council if they are ?

failing that Bournville it is.

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 19:51:01


sophiewd Wed 27-Feb-08 19:51:32

There was a big newspiece on this problem on 6pm news on BBC might be repeated on 10pm news saying how hot police/dogwardens are being on dogs, might be a good idea to phone again and point this out to them.

WorzselMummage Wed 27-Feb-08 19:52:20

There must be a way to bump off dogs which is pain free ish ?

death by chocolate sounds a good way to go to me.

morningpaper Wed 27-Feb-08 19:52:32

could you electrify the fence??!!

or get gun practice

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 19:54:13

It kind of looks bad as well, though, doesn't it: "Local vet shoots/ electrocutes family pet".......

Quattrocento Wed 27-Feb-08 19:55:12

You're a vet for goodness' sake ...

You have the means and the opportunity ...

These are truly horrible frightening dogs that are not being kept within the law

I mean I wouldn't exactly advertise that you'd put them down

And I probably wouldn't use anything traceable

But I think you'd be justified

<Quattro surprises herself and waits to be flamed by the legions of dangerous dog lovers>

WorzselMummage Wed 27-Feb-08 19:55:25

lmao can you imagine the headlines !

QueenEagle Wed 27-Feb-08 19:56:19

Go to the local paper.

morningpaper Wed 27-Feb-08 19:56:54

shoot it with a taser of something (surely everyone has one lying around)

then bash the feck out of it with your mop

then claim (to the Daily Mail et al) that it was purely Death By Mop fueled by Mother's Love

make sure that YOU do the autopsy


WorzselMummage Wed 27-Feb-08 19:57:29

absolutly QC, bump them off.. horrid things.

*Waits patiently with wine in hand for rotweilerforums to come and have a go

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 20:11:59

I think we should form a mumsnet 'hit squad' or at the very least, give RedJools an alibi :D

Quattrocento Wed 27-Feb-08 20:15:39

Okay. Next time the pack infest your garden, you have to go and engage the local drug baron in conversation (maybe you could invite him to join the Women's Institute?).

We'll come around, off the dogs and drag their corpses into the woodland.


WorzselMummage Wed 27-Feb-08 20:17:38

but how are we gonna bump them off and will we have to bury them ?

I can try and get some of those white paper suits so we wont leave any forensics grin

WideWebWitch Wed 27-Feb-08 20:18:04

Fking hell, I'd be pissed off. No idea what you shoudl do but sympathy.

Quattrocento Wed 27-Feb-08 20:20:28

Oh good idea on the White Paper Suits

No-one will spot us in those

I think we need to leave the corpses where they can be readily found

Otherwise the OP's alibi will be no use at all and she will have to socialise with the drug baron for the rest of her life for no good reason

WorzselMummage Wed 27-Feb-08 20:26:14

she'll have to develop a liking for narcotic chemicals.. she can stock pile them to bump off any future pain-in-the-arse canines


PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 20:34:26

I have a 'scenes of crime' tent that they use to cover over dead bodies in woodland beauty spots (we use it as our mess tent when we go camping grin)

That'll come in handy surely!

TheDuchessOfNorksBride Wed 27-Feb-08 20:36:48

Keep on at police, wardens etc but try a deterrent (other than poisoning grin)?

Do you know anyone with electric fencing (the proper sort for horses etc) that you could borrow? We use it a lot and having been zapped once or twice, our dog is now very wary of it, even when it's not switched on.

And like our dog, the children soon got the hang of it too. You could run a length along the back fence on the woodland side maybe?

Or give the trespassing dogs a high-powered hosing down but obviously not if the children are outside and probably best if you could do it from a place of safety too. Although they might think it's fun and come back for more...

The Staffie you could drop-kick back to his house but I wouldn't mess with the other two!

WorzselMummage Wed 27-Feb-08 20:37:09


we could find a farm and feed them to the bigs ?

or put them in a mindcer and use them as fertiliser ?

Quattrocento Wed 27-Feb-08 20:38:02

Gosh I am now really getting into this idea.

I like the tent - yes that sounds good but we'll have to wipe the fingerprints off it

Now, these chemicals. How do we get them into the dogs?

I don't fancy injecting them. What do you think about a bit of steak maybe, laced with chemicals?

It's not very certain. What about those tranquiliser gun thingies

Can anyone shoot straight?

Quattrocento Wed 27-Feb-08 20:40:06

Duchess, I never had you pegged as a woolly liberal

It's the OP's woodland as well as her garden.

The dogs deserve to die.

Mind you, maybe the owner does too

<ponders implications>

LadyOfWaffle Wed 27-Feb-08 20:41:36

Only read OP - if they were doing that alot, I'd just bundle them in your car and take them to a local rescue centre TBH, the owners obviously do not look after them properly.

WorzselMummage Wed 27-Feb-08 20:46:04

my dogs got a real liking for KFC, i recon even the most stand offish rotty could be seduced by a zinger tower with ketamine dressing.

Quattrocento Wed 27-Feb-08 20:48:41


KFC it is

The OP needs to know we're here, with white suits, tent, money for KFC, ketamine.

Much more permanent solution and less of an eyesore than a wire fence

lilipup Wed 27-Feb-08 20:52:03

we have a much less significant problem with a barking dog behind our house, but annoys the feck out of us, so really sympathise. taking them to Court over it, as like you, intensely resent not being able to relax in our own home without the little bugger barking all day and night behind our bedroom windows. however, Court system taking forever, Police say not much they can do about it, even the so-called antisocial behaviour people and nighttime noise people don't really have much to say on the matter, and we've concluded, the system just doesn't work for decent people who want to have a quiet life in spite of irresponsible chavs. i've seriously contemplated ways of eliminating the thing, but pretty sure we would end up with a criminal record instead of them. write to your local Cllr/MP etc, and go to press, as the system only seems to cave in under that sort of pressure. you could try the court order route as at least if they then don't comply with that, you can go back to the Police with something substantial they need to act on.

Heated Wed 27-Feb-08 20:52:52

Yellow pages: marksmen?

Become a daily pest to the LA and report them every day for a 6 weeks?

AlistairSim Wed 27-Feb-08 20:56:55

I know a friendly taxidermist.

How about we stuff them and prop them up in the owner's garden?
See how long it takes him to notice?

This is, of course, after someone has done the wet work.
Wouldn't fancy sticking a fistful of wadding up a rottie's bum.

TheDuchessOfNorksBride Wed 27-Feb-08 20:58:13

Quattro - grin @ woolly liberal. DH thinks I should revive the Whigs as a political party.

I'm just a wee bit concerned about the dogs owners. Dogs in the garden could become the least of redjools worries if she wasted their 'pets'. So it's white papers suits AND plastic bag shoe-covers for you and your dog-assassin henchwomen, OK?

Besides, a strip of electric fencing isn't going to prevent her & DCs from going into their woodland, you just switch it off and climb over/under it.

lilipup Wed 27-Feb-08 21:00:22

Do an internet search for every instance in the last 5 years of a child being savaged by a dog.

Print out all the news articles.

Write a brief summary of your circumstances, detailing the names, ranks and appointments of the officers you have spoken to when seeking help.

Put this together with a covering letter, addressed to the local newspaper and copied to the chief constable, local MP and councillor. The covering letter should state that the named officers will be culpable through their inaction if any harm comes to any person or child from these dogs.

Heated Wed 27-Feb-08 21:02:50

Lie? Say the pack went for the youngest child and you had to fight them off/barricade yourself in.

oops Wed 27-Feb-08 21:07:41

Message withdrawn

PollyPentapeptide Wed 27-Feb-08 21:09:56

lmao at 'wet work' grin

bohemianbint Wed 27-Feb-08 21:35:32

Sorry but LMAO at this thread - it's straight out of Roald Dahl!

Massive sympathies, I'd go berserk if any dog appeared in my garden, let alone massive scary evil ones.

I'll tune in again to see how the devil dogs meet their demise... wink

lilacclaire Wed 27-Feb-08 23:01:28

Try your local MP and the local paper, surely this would pressure the police into taking further action!

RedJools Wed 27-Feb-08 23:16:27

Hmm, I'm loving the idea of you guys running round the woods in white suits, but you might be a bit, er suspicious??!! I can get the ketamine, but these dogs probably shoot up for breakfast. In fact, they probably test the quality of the gear for their fuckwitt owners (a la "The dog from DelMOnte- he say yes!!) So finding large enough quantities of drugs may be a problem. Bullets (even air gun pellets) can be traced.
We need blunt trauma here, but these buggers have skulls 3" thick!! I have an elevated balcony, so lassoing/ strangulation is a favourite fantasy of mine. As is knocking it out with half a brick, tying it up and doing a wee dance round it to "Stuck in the middle with you" while brandishing a knife".......

Back in the real world, we have put up more fencing. Sigh!

onebatmother Thu 28-Feb-08 10:38:05

lol RJ. I live in East London and I very much feel your pain.

3littlefrogs Thu 28-Feb-08 11:01:14

Did anyone see the item on last night's news about the trend for keeping dangerous dogs as weapons? They interviewed a gang member whose dog was trained to attack if anyone so much as approached him. How on earth do the police deal with that? It is terrifying. You see them hanging around parks and playgrounds.

A few years ago ds1 was robbed by a man using a rottweiler as well as a knife.

I don't know what to say to you RJ, it is an awful situation.

mcfee Thu 28-Feb-08 11:09:18

It makes me mad when people describe their own dogs as 'big softies' They are DOGS!!! I have a black labrador which is the goofiest, friendliest animal in the world but he is a DOG therefore never once has been left alone with DD (age 3.5) If an animal is outwith its comfort zone, or can't cope with sudden actions (like little people are prone to) or feels scared / threatened the only defence it has is to snap / bite or worse. Its not the dogs fault, its just the only thing it can instinctively do. It makes me mad when people like your neighbour dismiss other people's fears. Sorry, big rant but as a responsible dog owner it makes my blood boil!

RedJools Thu 28-Feb-08 11:21:58

I know, mcfee! As a vet, I get at ALL the time!! As soon as I hear the words "big softy" my heart sinks and I sharpen my reflexes (never let me down yet!) "Oh, he's never done that before!" Yeah, well, you've probably never had to look in his ears/ listen to his heart....Same with kids- they can quite easily upset dogs just with their body language. Lots of dog owners actually think its ok for their dogs to bite the vet, incidentally! "That's your job!" Eh?? Or worse, they find it funny!

Given this guy's history, I would hedge a bet that these dogs are not being kept to be cuddly pets. they live outside in a yard, apparently, and therefore are probably poorly socialised. They are protection dogs, I think, given his chosen career, which doesn't make me feel a lot better about them!

In an ideal world he would bring them to my surgery for treatment.....wink

kekouan Thu 28-Feb-08 11:27:11

You cannot poison them!!! bloody hell, it's not the dogs fault.

Definitely call the RSPCA though.. if they're loose then they should be able to grab them and take them away..

jezzemx Thu 28-Feb-08 11:31:34

Sod the poison. Do you own a shotgun???
I know this is not very helpful but it makes me really angry when month after month you hear in the news about defenceless children who are maimed, scarred or killed because of these dangerous dogs.
Sounds as if the owner has a little willy grin IMO men who own big dogs are lacking in size down there. It must be tiny if he's got so many big dogs wink

morningpaper Thu 28-Feb-08 12:13:23

I've had a great idea

Plant hundreds of chocolate eggs in the wood "for an Easter Egg Hunt"

well that's it really


AlistairSim Thu 28-Feb-08 14:12:51

RedJools - Do you know anyone with a really large snake??

Article in The Times today about a python eating a family dog....

TwoFirTreesToday Thu 28-Feb-08 14:20:45

Could you trap one (or all) in the garden then call the warden to have it removed? Claim you have no idea who the owner is. Might need a bit of juggling to get the dog trapped but they would have to remove it then, hopefully

Failing that I would go for fences and nasty prickly bushes, however much it costs.

onebatmother Thu 28-Feb-08 14:38:57

hire pygmy and blowpipe?

I would like to see at rotty fight a python....

RedJools Thu 28-Feb-08 15:00:23

I know- I realised yesterday after I saw red and chased the bugger out that had I not, had I just blocked the hole where it got in, it would have been trapped (albeit with my sweet little bunnies) and maybe then someone would have come to take it away- DOH!!! Only problem was, it was trying to trash the fence/ gate that we spent money putting up the last time so it couldn't get IN!

I have tried dogwardens, SSPCA don't want to know- responsibility of the police (unbeknown to the police!!) No-one ever comes when the dogs are actually still there!! 4 hours later is no use! I don't think the dog warden actually wants to catch them, tbh, as he's probably shit-scared!! I should have said it was a pair of yorkies..

Poor DH is out there still fencing- bang goes our holiday this year, we've spent another £50 and he is away back up to B&Q again sad

RedJools Thu 28-Feb-08 15:01:45

I do know pythons- just not one big enough! Maybe a crocodile....

Surr3ymummy Thu 28-Feb-08 15:02:33

Have quickly scanned the posts. Agree it would not be a good idea to poison or otherwise destroy the dogs, however tempting that might be. Fencing although expensive is one solution, otherwise I'd be inclined to lure them into a shed (if you have one?) with a nice bit of meat and shut them in there and call the dog warden (even if that takes a couple of days!) Make sure there's water in the shed of course, and some food. Or if you're up for it, to get them into a car and take them to your local rescue centre.

Difficult situation though...

dittany Thu 28-Feb-08 15:22:11

In Liverpool they're doling out ASBOs to owners who don't keep their dangerous dogs under control. Perhaps a word with your local councillor might help - face-asbo-rap-100252-17364028/

There actually seems to be a huge campaign against dangerous dogs and their owners going on up there.

Can't believe the police won't help you with this. Pathetic.

RedJools Thu 28-Feb-08 15:31:45

I have thought of the trap-them-in-the-garage option, the question is, how to get them out again! Even a dog warden can't be expected to nab 3 dogs charging past him as soon as you open the door! I did think of a portable dog crate with a dead rabbit (obviously not one of mine!) in it, but even just getting near these guys is going to be dodgy- they could turn as you went to shut the door, resulting in some nasty injuries. A lot of these guys will "kennel guard" as well, and will be more aggressive when cornered.

I was pretty stupid yesterday approaching the thing with a mop, but I was so angry, I think even it got a fright, and at that point I was almost hoping the thing WOULD go for me. Horrible, I know, but at least then I could get something done. I don't really fancy being disfigured for life, though! But if it got me it might then be destroyed before it could ever get near my kids..

Upwind Thu 28-Feb-08 15:42:31

Not read the whole thread and I know you are a terrible shot but what about a bb gun from the safety of the house? Would sting them and maybe deter them from coming back. My Dad used to throw stones (with force) in a similar situation and it did seem to work.

Otherwise, perhaps you could try getting involved in local politics and pressuring them that way? If everything you have provided is strictly true maybe naming and shaming them on internet forums might also help.

If your local police force was #1 on google for failing to deal with dangerous dogs it wouldn't look so good. And in a world where there is seemingly no accountability, it might be the only way.

Upwind Thu 28-Feb-08 15:42:57

Not read the whole thread and I know you are a terrible shot but what about a bb gun from the safety of the house? Would sting them and maybe deter them from coming back. My Dad used to throw stones (with force) in a similar situation and it did seem to work.

Otherwise, perhaps you could try getting involved in local politics and pressuring them that way? If everything you have provided is strictly true maybe naming and shaming them on internet forums might also help.

If your local police force was #1 on google for failing to deal with dangerous dogs it wouldn't look so good. And in a world where there is seemingly no accountability, it might be the only way.

Lovesdogsandcats Thu 28-Feb-08 22:52:35

Not read whole thread but want to sympathise.
As a (3) dog owner I would be horrified to think a neighbour was too scared to tell me that my dogs were frightening them/their kids.
When I moved into my house, a hedge at the back had gaps in and my youngest dog kept squeezing through to the house on the other side. I made sure that the gaps were blocked up because it's not on.

So, I really cannot understand why any dog owner would be unreasonable when confronted witht he fact that their 3 large dogs are trespassing in a garden where young children are playing!

If I were you, I would go round and be nice and friendly, and tell them that the children are scared of the dogs, ask owner to come and see damage to rabbit hutch, ask will they make sure the dogs cannot get in your garden, bribe them with your vet services in the future and I am sure they will see sensewink

Drug running and murdering in the criminal underworld is one thing, but dogs terrorising kids and rabbits is another, so maybe go round and see what they have to say? (wait til the rottie pisses you off again, and take your mop wink)

RedJools Fri 29-Feb-08 00:37:49

I'm like you, loversdogsandcats, if it was one of my dogs escaping I'd be horrified! I have thought of going round to their house, but dh won't let me!! The police have spoken to them on our behalf in the past, and they don't seem to care. My only worry is that if I go round and they laugh at me, then they know who I am and that I am p'd off about the dogs, which, apparently, wouldn't be good. Especially if anything DID happen to the dogs whilst out on their travels. Better that I don't take my mop though!! Might end up with ME being arrested for assault and bleachery!

superloopy Fri 29-Feb-08 02:33:50

Ok my twisted mind has come up with a plan...wink

Print up a very generous discount voucher for your vet clinic, say 50% off.

Track down nasty dog owners address and pop voucher through their door.

Next dump a load of cream eggs where these horrible bloody dogs lurk. (our dog stole 2 cream eggs last week and was shitting like you wouldn't believe. she was also feeling very sorry for herself).

Hopefully these dogs will then gorge themselves, go home and crap everywhere. Owners might then be responsible and bring them to you for treatment.

Tadah!! Handed to you on a platter to deal with as you see fit. Maybe a fake diagnosis of something fatal or expensive to treat. Sleepy bye byes nasty doggies!! Or you could tell the owners they were put to sleep and secretly have them rehomed.

Then charge the owners double to cover the costs of your new fences.

Problem solved! grin

superloopy Fri 29-Feb-08 04:24:17

Oh dear just read this

HereComeTheGirls Fri 29-Feb-08 08:25:19

Hmm..I am thinking perhaps you could pretend/suggest to the police that the dogs have been aggressive towards your child, when noone was looking of course....? But I suppose that would be a bit of a minefield, not to mention slightly criminal.....shame on me for suggesting it!!!

What I don't understand in Superloopy's links is:
'"Police are continuing to make local enquiries but it is not clear at this stage whether any criminal offences have been disclosed," a spokeswoman added. '

Eh? Does that mean it might be legal to let your dog go in someone else's garden and kill their pets?

okeydokeygirl Fri 29-Feb-08 19:35:20

I am very much a dog lover and I get really irate when dog owners get away with behaving like this. I used to be housing officer at had to deal with these kind of complaints all the time. At the end of the day, the dog warden (which should be part of the council) and the police both have powers to deal with this and this is what they should be doing. I think the RSPCA would only get involved if the dogs were being mistreated such as not being fed. I agree with MyEye and Southutsire that you should go down the legal route and keep pursuing this with the dog warden in the first instance. Keep a log of what is happening and when, and try to make a detailed note of what has happened in the past. The best thing to do is call the warden as soon as you see any of the dogs loose - anywhere in the public/on your land. You may find that you get them at the right time and the dog warden can pick the dogs up. And keep calling them EVERY time. If you don't get anywhere then go to your MP and/or the papers. I would definitely try to find out what kind of people the owners are. Being labeled a drug dealer and into illegal activities can cover a huge spectrum. It maybe that what they are known for is not that scary and you would not be subject to repercussions. But if they are really are hard core then you may have to bite the bullet and fence your land. I was once crashed into by someone local and there were loads of witnesses. He was uninsured but after some research about his background I decided that the insurance money really was not worth getting involved with him at any level - but then i do live in a really dodgy area. I would also try and find out if they are council tenants - if they are - then this could be your best way forward as the council has a duty to follow up this kind of anti social behavior and they have quite a lot of legal powers to do so. Be warned though, you will need to keep really detailed diary notes of what has happened and when, and you could be called as a witness should it proceed to court. This would really depend on what course of legal action the council took, and what kind of people the dog owners really are. One final thought. From the description of your property, it sounds really lovely. Maybe the authorities are taking the attitude that you are wealthy enough to sort it yourself. It is not the right attitude but might possibly be a factor in your lack of help. In the meantime, I would take every precaution to secure a section for your children. It may not seem fair, and may cost you, but could you live with the guilt if the worse did happen? Many best wishes and loads and loads of luck.

expatinscotland Fri 29-Feb-08 19:38:49

I'm sorry, but I'd find a way to get rid of them.

I know it's not their fault and blah blah blah, but life's too short.

Make them go away.

Underconstruction Sat 01-Mar-08 00:40:55

Years ago we lived next door to a guy who was sick of all the neighbourhood dogs peeing on his doorstep when his dog was on heat. He wired his bootscraper to the mains. The next suitor was catapulted into the road and found looking like nothing more than a hit and run. A little draconian for an undesirable visiting your dog (or even your daughter!), but perhaps appropriate on this occasion.

readytopop Sat 01-Mar-08 01:28:25

pmsl at this thread grin

sorry, no constructive ideas, I'm with the bourneville in the meat direction and poisoning the owners.

I do wish you the very best with this, dcs are too precious to be risking.

Lovesdogsandcats Sat 01-Mar-08 12:21:00

Underconstruction, your neighbour was a total twat then. Why was his dog not speyed? What a barbaric way to deal with dogs who through no fault of their own, have owners who don't give a fuck and let them wander the neighbourhood?

Joolyjoolyjoo Sat 01-Mar-08 12:40:07

(name changed- thought I sounded a bit like a militant communist!)
Okeydokeygirl- yeah, I will keep at the dog warden- if these dogs get in again, they will find it hard to get out, due to our new fencing, and then hopefully the warden will maybe one day actually come round . Last time it took me 15 minutes to even get through to someone on the phone, so not holding my breath!!I take your point about logging the incidents- I'm noting each "sighting" on my calendar, just in case!

Unfortunately it seems that these people really are that bad. Even this morning I mentioned the incident at my dd's ballet class, and made vague reference to the "bad lot" that were their owners and immediately was asked "It's not the xxxxxxs, is it?" Yup! Sharp intakes of breath all round!!! We just moved back here a couple of years ago, but everyone else seems to know this extended mafiosa family!!

Yeah, we do have a nice house in a nice area (thanks to some major help from my dad!) and you're right- I think people assume we therefore have money (hahaha!) I bet the nasty owners just think we are posh twats making a fuss cos their dogs are trampling our prize-winning crocuses or something!!! I did try to get the police to set them straight, but hey ho!

Thanks for all your help and support, guys! This thread has let me vent and provided some laughs, which I needed. I need to let this go, as I have gotten really wound up, and DH and I have ended up fighting, cos he just seems to accept it and bite the bullet, shell out and spend days repairing the fence. For me, otoh, my sense of fairness is outraged, and I find it hard to get over. I do tend to rant, which he finds unhelpful! Aaaargh! So thanks again! On the bright side, its hips looked a bit dodgy when I saw it the other day, and it can't live forever....

Triathlete Sun 02-Mar-08 21:58:22

We have a similar situation. Not a drug dealer, just a wastrel, letting his staffie into our garden. I tried to do the adult thing, and got abuse. Got the dog warden, neighbourhood warden, PCSOs and eventually the real police involved. Took flippin' ages. Had I known about Bournville then, I'd have done it without compunction. Yes it's rough on the dog, but if I'm choosing between some psycho staffie and my darling little son, there's no contest.

I absolutely agree that if you are law-abiding, responsible and trying to behave properly, then no-one gives a shit. There's almost no recourse.

We kept dogs when I was a kid, and put a lot of effort into being responsible dog owners. Where we lived, in the country, if your dog wasn't under control it got shot, very quickly.

Ideally of course, we'd shoot the owners and rehouse the dogs.

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