: to pull DS2 out of playgroup after one session and not want to pay the cancellation fee?

[policywonk]

OK, so I'm not a big fan of nurseries/playgroups, but thought I'd take a punt on putting DS2 into our local group. He had his first session yesterday: I stayed with him for 90 minutes then left him on his own for an hour before coming back to pick him up.

1. His key worker - specified in the paperwork I signed as someone who would help to settle him in - was not there, and no one else was asked to keep a specific eye on him.
   
2. While I was at the group, a small girl was left to weep unattended for at least ten minutes that I saw.
   
3. When I returned to pick him up, he was sobbing in the middle of the playgroup floor, unattended.
   
   So I went to see them this morning and said I'd changed my mind - didn't go into details as the manager wasn't there. The deputy manager told me I'd be liable for a month's fee, as set out in the contract.
   
   My point is, I rather feel that they broke their contract with me by not giving him a key worked for his first session.
   
   Am I being totally precious and unreasonable?

[Tortington]

why dont you ask them for a compy of their official complaints policy.

[NAB3wishesfor2008]

I don't think you are being precious or unreasonable. How vital is it that he goes? If not, it may be too soon for him. OTOH you will need more than one session for him to settle in.

I guess they can't make you pay...

[hertsnessex]

i think you need to speak to the manager - but i would feel the same as you going on what you have seen, however i do think you need to find out more.

cx

p.s. hope your son is ok.xx

[moondog]

Gosh,you need to give it a bit more time. How often have we all left our children to sob?
I think people have totally unrealistic experctations of childcare.

[Oliveoil]

how old is he pw?

dd1 and dd2 had keyworkers at their playgroup but iirc the keyworker is in charge of a group of children so it could be that the KW was busy with another child?

instead of taking him out, I would speak to the manager and voice your concerns

no-one wants to see their child cry so I do not think you are being unreasonable but maybe a tad hasty?

(btw, dd1 cries at ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, v sensitive, but loved her playgoup after about a month. Was the making of her, so I would really give it a chance)

[policywonk]

Do you think IABR then custy (or do you think it depends on the policy)?

NAB3 - it's not at all vital that he goes, luckily - I'm SAHM. I could use the hours to do some freelance work but it's not crucial.

[policywonk]

OO - he's nearly 3 - not usually sensitive, but he is a mammy's boy (still bfing, which maybe doesn't help?) You're right about keyworkers being in charge of a group, but my problem here is that she actually wasn't there that day (home emergency I think - fair enough), and no one else was asked to keep a specific eye on him.

[SueBaroo]

Find out more, but no YANBU. You and your child should get what you were told you would get. I don't leave my children sobbing, and I'm a very strict parent. Maybe an older child, but not a littly.

[Piggy]

It might be a bit quick to tell after just one session but it does sound pretty poor to me. My dses go to a wonderful nursery a few sessions a week and the nursery workers are wonderful. They take the key worker thing very seriously and I have never seen anything but lots of attention and affection from all the women there towards both of my sons.

[moondog]

I might add that generally speaking this 'keyworker' thing is crap too.Just a paper exxercise to satisfy powers that be.

[Oliveoil]

I don't think you b/f will make a difference will it?

at my playgroup if children are crying they get scooped up and cuddled, lots of love that I see and care

but if they were short staffed, this maybe would not happen

what does your gut say?

[SueBaroo]

In my experience, the keyworker thing was indeed just a paperwork thing, it didn't affect the day to day of the nursery. But I only worked in one nursery, obviously, so I'm no expert on that.

[Twinkie1]

I have had a similar thing at the gym creche with DS crying when I got there and no one taking any notice - really pissed me off but to be honest he settled fine after a while and they had other kids to look after too and at that moment a little girl had banged her head and she was their priority.

I can't understand why you didn't ask when you got there where the key worker was and when told she wasn't they ask for someone else to be assigned for that day - I would have I think if it was such an issue!

He will settle you just need to give him time - DS has taken 6 months to settle at last nursery and is still being whiney when I take him into his current one which he has been attending for 7 months - he loves it really though - stops crying the moment I am out of the door.

[Oliveoil]

oh, my keyworkers have always been hands on with my two

especially dd1, she was always sat on her knee or holding her hand

dd2 is not as clingy but when they do craft or baking etc, her KW does it with her

[Piggy]

The keyworker idea obviously works well in some places and not in others. I like the key worker system myself because it works well for my children.

However, even if the key worker system doesn't work well there should be someone who will step in and deal with a sobbing child imho.

[Oliveoil]

surely it is human instinct to go to a sobbing child?

whether they are asigned to you or not imo

have you given it any more thought PW, have boring crap to do now but will be back (in about 3 mins, ha!)

[moondog]

Quite OO.
Which is what I despise about keyworker systems generally (of which i see many in my work as a salt). They strip people of their powers of logic and common sense.

[DoubleBluff]

I would go with your gut instinct. DS2 went to a playgroup where he was left on the 'naughy step' alone and crying for over ten minutes ( aged 2 1/2 at teh time)
I discussed it with the leaders but just was not happy with it all. He went to a different playgroup and it was so different, just a different atmosphere, happy and kind.

[Piggy]

But assigning a key worker to a child surely doesn't stop other nursery workers dealing with that child. It certainly doesn't at the nursery I use.

Perhaps childcare is totally bureaucracy-mad now too?

[luciemule]

I took my DS to a new preschool in september and after 3 sessions pulled him out and swapped to a much more caring one, where the women actually looked like they wanted to work with children!

It's really about how you feel sending him there - They should surely have a high enough ratio to have someone to settle your child in, whether it be the KW or whoever.

Do what you feel your instincts tell you.

[policywonk]

OO, I think your point about staffing is probably at the heart of this - I think their staffing is quite ad hoc (they are all local mothers) and I suspect that the keyworker thing is just cosmetic at this group if not at others.

I probably am being a bit precious - OK, very precious - but I can't bear to leave him crying when it's not really necessary, so I won't put him back in I don't think. I don't think that crying is absolutely inevitable - DS1 started school in September and couldn't have been happier.

Twinkle, you are right that I should have been more assertive at the time.

Didn't know you used to be a nursery worker Sue. Both the nurseries I have used (used one for DS1 for a while) were a bit rubbish - don't know whether I've been unlucky, or whether you get what you pay for (and we can't afford to pay much).

Any thoughts on whether I should argue about the bill, or just put up and shut up and write it off to experience?

[Nemoandthefishes]

I think he should have had more of a chance to settle. If you are adament you want him out then no I dont think you should have to pay cancellation fee. In terms of keyworker it is a load of faff they are just ht eones who fill in the early years forms and who you address any slight issues with. Crying little girl could be just the child who cries..i know that sounds funny but until I had dd2 I would have thought it cruel. However dd2 cries but does not want to be comforted unless she comes to you. I have told her nursery this and they leave her to decide when she wants a cuddle or when she just feels the need to have a cry. However seeing as they didnt know your ds then they should have comforted him.

Personally I would give it a little more..ds took about a month to settle into playgroup. DD1 and dd2 have been in nursery nearly a month now and dd1 runs in where she was screaming,dd2 screams but within 3 mins of me leaving actually stops and starts playing..I know because I have watched her through the window!!

[chrissnow]

I agree Oliveoil. My dd2 fell over in the street yesterday and was crying, I was attempting to push dd2 in buggy over to her when a woman came running over picked her off the floor and started to brush her off and make the 'standard' soothing noises. (she then apologised - which I find sad about this day and age - but that's a whole other thread..) She actually said it was just instinct. Surely then people who choose to work with little ones must have this instint??? The playgroup I use has a keyworker system but every staff member goes to any child who needs them. I think I would have to trust the mummy instinct and remove my child.

[moondog]

Yes, all childcare is utterly bureaucracy mad now. It is bloody bonkers.

I was at a recent meeting where about 15 people who deal with one child were assembled to be given a lecture and a long complicated letter (cc'd to all and sundry) about how they were no longer allowed to apply Savlon to a cut or graze on his body.