to feel mystified by martyrdom on mumsnet?

[Vacua]

am not unsympathetic to demands of parenthood, running a house and bringing up children - lone parent, unsupported by ex husband and with only a little extra domestic help by way of various unreliable cleaners, so I know whereof I speak - but have seen LOADS of threads recently by mums running themselves ragged while their husbands/partners appear to do nothing and there are several things I just don't get:

1. why do people allow this to happen to them?

1. don't they realise we alone are responsible for the way others treat us, particularly in this sort of situation?

1. doesn't sympathy for something that is arguably wholly (or at very least to a pretty large extent) self-inflicted only exacerbate the problem long term?

1. isn't it a bit embarrassing to sound so martyred?

is possible as long term confirmed singleton I am missing some vital point here, am happy to be enlightened

(post and run as about 87 hours late for appointment)

[Earlybird]

Some people struggle more than others. Some cope better than others.

I suspect a great deal of what we read is simply venting - a desire to be heard/acknowledged, and perhaps offered a bit of sympathy.

[Flllightattendant]

[loopylou6]

i think maybe peoples confidence can take a battering and theya re scared to stand up to their partners for fear of them leaving? i have a friend whos boyfried treats her terribly, even telling her that he wishes their babie had been aborted whilst my friend was actually in labour as far as i can make out she is scared of being left alone with 3 kids personally i would rather be alone than put up with that sort of abuse.

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

[SueBaroo]

nah, I agree with earlybird, 'tis venting, and often a very useful safety valve. Sometimes things get on top of you and it's helpful to have someone else say 'No, you're not mad, this is hard, and sometimes crap'.

I'm a bit of a hardnut, but sometimes even I just need someone to 'hear' me. Blimey, that's sounds a bit pop-psych, but there we are.

[Anna8888]

Vacua

I know where you are coming from, but on your point (2) it is not as easy as that. We are jointly responsible within a couple relationship for the way we treat one another, and even when one half of a couple asserts his/her boundaries, he/she cannot necessarily get the other half to comply.

[Vacua]

I am actually eating cake! thought, might as well have coffee and be 87 and a half hours late . . . am not one of life's copers myself so maybe am being a bit unsympathetic, but often read those posts and wonder what the other side of the story is, what the partner in that situation might say

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

[Vacua]

ooh replies, well if you can't get the other party to comply does it mean you should realign your expectations or that you are overlooking their wishes about your behaviour?

[hercules1]

I do know what you mean. I find some of the ambi threads similarily bizarre. It seems mumsnet has become a place for people to moan about some really silly things.

[Maidamess]

Vac, I agree with you. But I also think there are many women who impose such control freakery on their husbands, the guy is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. I'm guilty of that a bit myself. "My dh never changes the beds. Today he did and guess what none of it matches, what a dork"

[SayNOtothecookieRookie]

I see where you are coming from Vacua and tbh I'm also a bit surprised about some of the situations that some people put up with. I was single for a long time before I met my DH simply because I have reasonable standards about how I should be treated.

But I guess for those in the situation their other half makes them feel it is normal and its hard in real life to be constantly complaining about your partner. Plus I can't imagine how hard it would be to walk away from the father of your children, even when things are bad.

Generally I think most respondents try carefully to help the OP rather than just sympathise, but I guess shouting at them that they are repeating known patterns and should grow a backbone isn't really going to help them much.

[SueBaroo]

sure it does, but when you're in the crap, do you really think 'I must realign the expectations in my relationship'? Most often when I'm in that sort of state, I've needed someone else to point it out to me.

[Flllightattendant]

[SheikYerbouti]

DP can be a lazy fucker sometimes, and if I am not careful, it can be a vicious cycle of me letting him get away with it, and then him doing even less. I do often feel that the onus is ion me, even though I work full time (mainly early morns/late nights as well) so I have to remind myself to whoop his arse occasionally before I become downtrodden.

So I can see what this sort of situation can perpetuate itself.

Also some people have had their confidence so crushed by their partners that they can't see anything better for themselves as they don't think they are worth it

[MrsBadger]

my instant thought is it's because it's behaviour we saw modelled (how many of us have put-upon martyred mothers?) or behaviour we were brought up to believe is desirable ('just get on with it, don't make such a fuss' etc)

tis a shame in the 21st century

[Emprexia]

Were it my DH, he'd probably moan about exactly the same things, lol

[hercules1]

I agree about expectations too. I would be peed off if my dh constantlty cleaned and went on about it if I had lower standards.

[SayNOtothecookieRookie]

Hercules the AMBI threads ?????

[hercules1]

aibu! Although I confess to enjoy reading them!

[Anna8888]

Vacua

In a healthy relationship you surely discuss each person's expectations/ideal scenarii and the resources you have to meet them, and then, by dint of much discussion and to-ing and fro-ing, you work out what each person can realistically bring to your joint life?

In an unhealthy relationship, each person is often working to a (often unconscious) script and setting expectations that they believe are their right. And that often leads to unexpressed resentment, random boundary setting without requisite discussion of resources etc.

Lots of men, it would seem from reading MN, are not very willing to have the discussions about what is realistic... I feel lucky not to have a partner who is frightened of putting all the cards on the table

[anorak]

Anyone can have their spirit trampled into submission by a bully. Anyone, even the most positive, most confident, most assertive, most capable people.

Many bullies work by gradually cutting off their victims from the outside world, making it more hassle than it's worth to have nights out or visits to family. That's why talking about it on the internet is such a lifeline.

All bullies are different, some are worse than others, some are violent, some are not, some use words as weapons, some just make you feel you are getting on their nerves all the time, destroy any feeling of value their partner might have, or 'punish' their partner for certain types of behaviour. They gradually condition their victim to behave in the way they want them to. It's all about power and control.

Strong, confident and intelligent people are often no match for these experts, especially if they are caring and kind types who always do their best to please those they love.

[hercules1]

But is there not a difference between the genunine bullies (totally agree with all you say anorak) and a bloke who hasnt washed up.

[anorak]

Yes of course there is, but I think vacua is mystified by the women who put up with really unfair, cruel treatment, not those who get upset about the odd spot of unhelpfulness, isn't she?

[Vacua]

well probably more the latter really, isn't a terrific stretch of imagination to put self in shoes of someone who has gradually been broken down by an accomplished bully (although obviously I would stab them in the neck with a sharp fork if it was me) and that's just a whole 'nother story - but the ones who scurry about doing EVERYTHING and then moaning about it - don't get it. Why do it if you don't like it? and think people should only be sympathetic if they are prepared to support the poster to make real changes rather than saying 'oh dear, poor you' with no practical advice

cod did you cat ME? if not, why not? only nothing there