to not want to pay a penalty given to me by a train conductor?

[crapcook]

I was late for my train this morning so I jumped on it knowing that when I got to my London station I would be able to pay for it before I went through the barriers.I have never done this before but knew that I would be able to buy a ticket there as I have seen people buying them before.

So I got to Cannon Street and got in the queue for my ticket. A conductor came over and said 'where have you come from?' so I told him. He said, humiliatingly in front of everyone, 'you know that as you got on the train without a ticket you are going to get fined?'. I told him that I thought that as I was queuing for my ticket now and I wasn't jumping the barriers then that would be a bit steep but I was willing to pay the £20 fine. He started to write a penalty notice, took my name and address etc and in a loud and very patronising voice, started to read me the riot act - this was in front of a huge queue of commuters I could have smacked him one. So unprofessional. I felt like he was treating me like someone who had intentionally gone into a shop and pinched something. I asked why this queue of commuters were not getting charged and he said it depended on where they had got the train from. I think you can use the ticket service there if your departing station's ticket office is shut. I didn't know that though.

He treated me like shit and I got quite upset and riled up. Told him not to patronise me and called him a jobsworth . Also shouted at him that their poxy trains are expensive enough as it is AND I have to stand up all the way into work. That really helped my case as you can imagine.

I had no change on me so had to pay with my debit card. Because of this they had to charge me half of the penalty fee so it cost me £10 to get into work this morning.

You can appeal the fee so I am thinking of writing to Southeastern trains and asking them to meet me halfway based on the conduct of their guard's behaviour and also because as I had seen other people buying tickets there then I assumed that I could too. So I will and have paid the tenner but I refuse to pay the other half.

What do you think?

God I was furious.

[rantinghousewife]

I think an appeal would probably get you nowhere as according to the byelaws regarding ticketing you should buy a ticket before you board a train where there is facility to do so.
However, I would complain to customer services about the conduct of the revenue officer and they will probably reimburse you with vouchers.

[LittleBella]

Sorry, I think you'll have no chance.

We don't live in a country where reason is the order of the day. Rules is rules, irrespective of how unreasonable or ridiculous they are. No-one is interested in listening to reasonable arguments. If it doesn't tick the box, forget it. There is absolutely no point arguing with a bureaucracy, you won't win. You'll just get angry again. Let it go.

[southeastastra]

it's awful. you used to be able to just pay at the excess fares

[crapcook]

I told the guard before he started being rude and unprofessional that I was willing to pay the fine. Then he was rude and unprofessional with me. This isn't about me getting on the train without a ticket. It is about a lack of customer service skills and a huge chip on the shoulder.

It takes a lot for me to start mouthing off to somebody. I paid for half of it.

I will write to them and see what they say.

[foxinsocks]

you got on without a ticket, you got caught, you have to pay the fine

it's annoying but err that's the way it works!

[rantinghousewife]

Write to customer services, be calm, professional, polite and state your case clearly. They will take your complaint very seriously, they deal with this sort of thing every day.

[foxinsocks]

yes, write the letter if you can be bothered. Did you get his name/number? It might help to have that.

[LittleBella]

You could suggest that they make it much clearer that the pay at the end option is only available to people who have not had the option of paying.

By option of paying, they do mean that if you are running late, you are supposed to miss your train and be late for work, as paying is more of a priority than you being on time.

As I say, reason doesn't come into it.

[crapcook]

foxinsocks - but I thought that I could buy my ticket at the other end. And like I said, it isn't about me getting on the train without a ticket. I told him I would pay the fine.

It was the fact that I was spoken to and treated like a hardened bloody criminal in front of a load of people that has royally pissed me off.

I will write them a letter out of principle.

[crapcook]

LittleBella - of course! I get that now. But as you say, they could make it more clear to commuters that you can only pay there if you couldn't buy your ticket at the departing station.

Southeastastra - what do you mean about 'excess fares'?

I'm quite a newbie with Southeastern trains

[stripeymama]

Well, read this and use it when you write.

Its from the Guardian, arguing that if no ticket windows were free (so you would need to queue) then legally speaking no ticket purchasing facilities were available.
So therefore you should not have to pay a penalty fare if this was your reason for not having a ticket.

[foxinsocks]

doesn't your train have that annoying intercom that blasts out 'you must have a ticket for the journey' the entire way in? You used to be able to buy those vouchers for 5p to show you'd tried to get a ticket but they've got rid of them now.

The reason they don't let you buy a ticket at the end is because you could say you've only travelled 1 or 2 stops whereas you'd come from much further away iyswim.

[roquefort]

Look at this page in The Guardian a while back.www.guardian.co.uk/money/2007/jun/30/consumernews.transportintheuk

[LittleBella]

Ah well, next time you'll know. For future reference, the correct way to behave when confronted with a Jobsworth, is to remark every time he draws breath "yeah but am I bovvered though?" "does my face look bovvered?" "do I look bovvered?" a la Catherine Tate.

[wheresthehamster]

If everyone could pay at the other end then everyone would wait until then to get a ticket and only pay for one stop. You see, the rail companies aren't THAT stupid

[southeastastra]

i'm thinking years back crapcook, when you could pay at the other end, or on the train.

[mazzystar]

He certainly shouldn't have been rude and unprofessional towards you, and I think a lot of people might well have let you off.

Ticket dodging is a massive problem though, and I actually think its completely reasonable to expect people to pay before they board. Sorry.

And there probably is a hardened contingent of people who do what you did everyday, with no intention of paying.

[foxinsocks]

can't you just buy tickets in advance santaoftheopera?

I was quite amazed to find, on speaking to another mother at school, that she never bought a ticket for the train and just took her chances with being caught (but then again, she was travelling between 2 stations without barriers)!

My ticket is checked every single day!

[bambi06]

i once argued,appealed and won my case on a train as i was travelling a long way on a train , in economy class ,but there were no spaces at all..totally chocca.not even standing space so i thought .no way am i going to travel like sardines when ive paid my fare and have to stand for 4 hours..so went to first class and took a seat there until conductor comes along and starts an arguement with me about sitting there, so i calmly told him if he could find me a seat in economy i would go there but until he did i was staying put and argued that id paid my ticket to have a seat for the long journey..he started getting rude etc so i took his name and reported him ..i go t a full refund of my fares[and my two friends travelling with me!] full apology and free tickets next time..not bad eh?

[nooka]

You can complain about the revenue officer being rude, but there are signs at every station saying that you have to pay before you board, so you've no chance of appealing that you weren't informed (even thought you may have thought you could pay at the other end). Although it may have been embarrassing to have had all your details taken that is what they always do, because you have broken byelaws by getting on the train, and they are legally required to make a record of it (I suspect this is to catch people who are always skipping paying). I'm afraid that if you shouted at him you are very unlikely to get a nice response from the complaints service, but you never know (they may or may not check the CCTV, but they will probably just ask the ticket man). The appeals service is run by a different organisation, so nothing to do with Southeastern, and I'm pretty sure you have to pay up and the appeal is seperate. You can occasionally get away with paying at excess fairs, but you have to present a pretty good case - not just that you were running late (I think you have to prove that your ticket office was closed and the both the ticket machine and penalty fare machine were bust). So I think you have to accept you made a mistake and avoid it happening again.

[foxinsocks]

last week, on a train between Kingston and London Waterloo, the guard chased a fare dodger who got off at the stops in between, ran the length of the platform and got on the other end of the train. The guard couldn't get through the carriages quick enough to catch him before the train stopped again.

Was great street theatre (though I did feel sorry for the guard). He only managed 2 stops and then got off (the fare dodger) and I reckon just hung around at the station for the next train.

There are LOADS of people who never pay I reckon!

[SueW]

Round here they publish the names of fined people on posters and display them in the stations as a deterrent.

I don't use the trains v often but I have seen this. I usually read it as I wait to buy a ticket.

So maybe your humiliation isn't yet over.

[nooka]

santaoftheopera I think that in the instance you are talking about the child's parent is negligent because it's not the train complany's fault there really. They should get him a season ticket (and it would cost less). I agree that the inspectors can be unpleasant (been caught a couple of times in the past for one reason or another myself) but they do get the most incredible shit thrown at them. Maybe this is because they work on the principle that if you don't have a ticket then you are a criminal, but then again technically you are. I do find that if you are very nice to them they tend to be more forgiving.