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AIBU?

to think you should only be given an Oscar for the female actor if you are female?

173 replies

amispartacus · 10/12/2016 14:40

Or at least you've had surgery 'down there'?

And not just because you're gender fluid?

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/oscars-2017-history-made-as-academy-considers-rupauls-drag-race-contestant-kelly-mantle-best-actor-a7466981.html

Kelly Mantle is a drag artist. Fair enough. Not the first male to do drag and not the first actor to play 'drag' in films - cue Tootsie and all that.

But to be up for an award in the male AND female actor award?

OP posts:
PacificDogwod · 10/12/2016 14:42

Oh FFS.
I have never heard of them, but FFS!
Hmm
YANBU, but then again I would say that, wouldn't I, as I am also Spartacus.

amispartacus · 10/12/2016 15:03

I wonder how Kelly Mantle would describe themselves and why?

OP posts:
CherryChasingDotMuncher · 10/12/2016 15:04

Oh not again!

YANBU, I can only think that people who believe this is progressive are thick in the head, there is nothing progressive about taking awards made specifically for women away from women Angry

ThymeLord · 10/12/2016 15:07

More of the same utter madness I see.

I'm spartacus.

amispartacus · 10/12/2016 15:08

We could just get away from all this by just having an award for Best actor without having 'male' and 'female' sections. But that's a whole new thread.

OP posts:
ThymeLord · 10/12/2016 15:09

Is there a shortage of women to nominate? No, there bloody isn't.

SnatchedPencil · 10/12/2016 15:09

Surely the best thing would be to give an award out to the best actor or actress regardless of gender. Having "best male" and "best female" may seem like equality on the face of it, but actually it is not. Sometimes the best two actors could be men, sometimes the best two could be women.

It's like when at school we had a "head boy" and "head girl" every year. This wasn't equality, some years the two most deserving pupils would both be male, other years both female.

It annoys me when I see people getting upset that a man or ex-man has been nominated for "woman of the year". Some people seem to take that as a sign of discrimination or inequality, but is actually the very opposite - a man being nominated for "best woman" means that the people running the award see women as being equal to men, to the extent that there should be no division between them when nominating people for their award.

To reach true equality, if that is what we want, we need to no longer see divisions between men and women when nominating someone for an award, applying for a job, running a country, etc etc. Men and women are equal. No need to make distinctions when choosing who is "best" for a given performance or task.

SnatchedPencil · 10/12/2016 15:11

@CherryChasingDotMuncher
"...there is nothing progressive about taking awards made specifically for women away from women..."

But there's nothing progressive about having awards made specifically for women! It means that we're not capable of winning against a man if we need a separate award!

ThymeLord · 10/12/2016 15:13

I really don't think it means that at all.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 10/12/2016 15:14

Snatched there are awards for both men and women in many awards ceremonies, and specific women's ones because historically it's been difficult for women to win when pitted against their male peers.

amispartacus · 10/12/2016 15:14

But there's nothing progressive about having awards made specifically for women

I think there should be just an award for best actor. After all, there aren't specific awards for best actor for other groups.

But if there is to be an award for best male / female actor, then I don't think a drag artist should be up for best female actor.

OP posts:
TheMortificadosDragon · 10/12/2016 15:15

snatched - when there is a level playing field then by all means have just 'best actor'. But it isn't - there are more male roles, men's roles are assessed differently.

This is like having awards for black actors and letting Laurence Oliviers Moor of Venice win.

ShowMePotatoSalad · 10/12/2016 15:17

The sex of a person is determined by what sexual reproductive organs they have.

The gender of a person is defined by their own beliefs and the way in which they choose to live their life. You don't have to have had surgery to be considered another gender, or gender fluid.

If you do identify as gender fluid it makes sense to be nominated in either category (or to be asked which category you want to be nominated in). The only problem there is that it potentially gives you a greater chance of winning than the other nominees. I haven't looked in to the details of how they will sort this out, but that's obviously an issue. But as far as I can see, that is the only issue.

ShowMePotatoSalad · 10/12/2016 15:18

Sorry, I cobbled my post out there. Obviously it's only fair if you're nominated in 1 category. You can't be nominated in both because it obviously is an unfair advantage.

amispartacus · 10/12/2016 15:18

It's the fact that Kelly Mantle doesn't seem to be a transwoman. Or identify as trans. They are a drag artist. That is so different. Just a man playing up to a drag stereotype.

OP posts:
amispartacus · 10/12/2016 15:19

If you do identify as gender fluid it makes sense to be nominated in either category

What does that actually mean?

OP posts:
SpeakNoWords · 10/12/2016 15:19

This award is separated on sex, not gender surely?

Have they asked all previous nominees what gender they feel they are?

ShowMePotatoSalad · 10/12/2016 15:21

What's the drag stereotype?

Somerville · 10/12/2016 15:21

Have they asked all previous nominees what gender they feel they are?

Good point.

I am Spartacus.

ThymeLord · 10/12/2016 15:22

I was just going to say the same Speak

ShowMePotatoSalad · 10/12/2016 15:23

Speak probably not...but then again how many Oscar nominees have openly identified as gender fluid?

Temporaryname137 · 10/12/2016 15:23

Wonder if the actors will be as happy to compete in the female category when they realise the pay is much lower...!

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amispartacus · 10/12/2016 15:23

What's the drag stereotype

If you were to go to a venue which had a male drag artist, then I have no doubt that person would fit a stereotype. I don't think they'd dress up and act as a typical woman.

OP posts:
CherryChasingDotMuncher · 10/12/2016 15:26

The sex of a person is determined by what sexual reproductive organs they have.

The gender of a person is defined by their own beliefs and the way in which they choose to live their life. You don't have to have had surgery to be considered another gender, or gender fluid.

thats all very well, but aside from the fact that gender is a social construct, the root cause of discrimination against females is because of their sex, not their gender. Worldwide females are discriminated and damaged as soon as they're born because they're female (FGM for example), no one stops to ask or Consider for a newborn what gender they are. Which is why this "I identify as" nonsense is total bollocks, and only further damages women. A person born male, no matter how they identify as later in life, will never experience what a woman experiences. My 3yo is treated differently to her male peers, different expectations are set of her, it starts so early. So it's important that we protect the exclusive thing that females have fought for for themselves, even something as trivial as an award.

Plus if gender is to be believed, then everyone in the world is gender fluid surely?

SpeakNoWords · 10/12/2016 15:26

Why would you need to openly identify as gender fluid? It's a feeling, so it's internal not external surely?

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