To seriously wonder what it will take for the Left to realise hurling insults at their core voters won't win votes?

(679 Posts)
basketoffreshveg Fri 11-Nov-16 07:33:20

guardian link

Now, I realise the above is about Trump, but if I didn't have to get ready for work I am sure I could find easily enough any number of articles from the last twelve months stating that core Labour voters are too stupid to know what is good for them, wrong, misguided, naive, foolish and poor judges of political and economical climates.

I keep thinking that at any key moment the light will go on and the penny will drop and the left will realise and identify this is the very problem and why they aren't being elected.

They aren't losing because of stupid voters but largely because these voters dislike being called stupid. I am not necessarily advocating a U turn insofar as policies go but in the way they are presented to the electorate.

Yet after every crushing blow I see articles like the one above and I have to reach the conclusion that there is a serious disconnect here as if I can identify the source of the problem and Labour/left seemingly cannot, and I am no genius, I truly can't see them ever getting back in.

ThoraGruntwhistle Fri 11-Nov-16 07:36:32

I am usually a Labour voter and yet I can't help but agree with you. It's hard to see a way forward for them when there are so many people disillusioned.

InfiniteSheldon Fri 11-Nov-16 07:46:41

That article is also typical echo chamber stuff, Hilary as the best candidate Trump as the worst there is no middle ground anymore it's I'm right and you are racist stupid and thick if you disagree. This polarisation of views shuts down debate, hence they've stopped the comments it's agree with me or off with your head politics.

Cocklodger Fri 11-Nov-16 07:50:13

now I kind of agree with you, But I think the same should be said for all.
How many people (On fb, On MN, in RL) have you heard say about trump
''I hope someone assassinates him'' or something to that effect.
Hurling insults, death threats, etc isn't going to help anyone, it may well just perpetrate more violence, which can't be a good thing.

Cocklodger Fri 11-Nov-16 07:55:57

and yes the UK is just as bad.
I'm a lefty, always have been but I recognize calling people names and getting personal isn't going to change minds.

Noofly Fri 11-Nov-16 07:58:00

I completely agree. I know some elements of the right are just as bad but surely someone ought to be taking the high ground! I know I am going back to Trump but I remember watching a show where they were interviewing someone from Appalachia. He was clearly dirt poor and not well educated at all. He just said that he was so tired of being called a hillbilly and cracker and too stupid to understand things but that he was still a person. He felt Trump was listening to people like him while everyone else was calling him the same names he'd been called his whole life, only now they were calling him these names because he supported Trump.

Can't say I blame him one bit for voting for Trump. I think he'll be sadly disappointed by what happens, but I don't blame him.

basketoffreshveg Fri 11-Nov-16 07:58:20

That's very true re the middle ground.

I really think some on the left think they can shame their core voters into voting their way and, when it fails dramatically, think they haven't shamed enough. So the answer is more of the same.

Apart from anything else, that seriously calls into question analytical skills. If someone can't see something THAT obvious, what else will they miss?

RandyMagnum2 Fri 11-Nov-16 07:59:26

"The Tolerant Left" all smiles and kind to your face.... until you say you voted Conservative/UKIP/Not Labour, then you're called all kinds with massive amounts of venom and bile.

CommanderShepard Fri 11-Nov-16 08:00:12

Why <should> we cosset xenophobic and misogynist bigots?

basketoffreshveg Fri 11-Nov-16 08:03:06

You shouldn't have to Commander

But there are two aspects to that point.

Firstly, the question has to be, is it? Is it racist/xenophobic to raise concerns about immigration, even if those concerns aren't well articulated?

Secondly, you can respond to those concerns in a way that makes it clear you disagree without insulting the individual it stemmed from.

Otherwise, put bluntly, the left aren't going to win power. And the lofty high ground might be a happy place to be but it's probably far more conducive if it's in a position to actually do something.

Cocklodger Fri 11-Nov-16 08:17:17

But sometimes in the way xenophobia is attacked, makes you just as bad, and won't change any opinions

Pickthatup Fri 11-Nov-16 08:22:53

It's the assumption that people are indeed racists or xenophobic simpletons simply because they don't agree with you that is the problem. It's like G Bush Jnr when he said if you don't agree with us you're with the terrorists. ODFOD.

Guavaf1sh Fri 11-Nov-16 08:24:44

It does seem odd that people would vote for something / someone that is clearly against their own interest and that of the country, for clearly the wrong reasons (I.e. Something stupid) and say that this is because they feel a loss of control and this was the only way to 'fight back'. Left wing people traditionally try to help and protect those who are vulnerable in society. When bad things happen some will say they were misled or some such guff. They weren't. The left did try and point out the stupididity of both Brexit and Trump. It is ironic that idiots are so incensed that people treat them like idiots they go and do something idiotic. The blame lies with the idiots themselves. I just hope the country and the world are not too damaged by the time the idiots have satisfied themselves that they have had their say.

QueenLaBeefah Fri 11-Nov-16 08:25:05

I completely agree.

Hurling insults has never won an argument. I think social media has a lot to blame for this.

InfiniteSheldon Fri 11-Nov-16 08:25:11

And sometimes it isn't xenophobia it's just a great insult to hurl

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Fri 11-Nov-16 08:25:27

Two days after the election of Donald Trump, you're trying to make the argument that insults and aggression doesn't get people elected?

A lot of bubble need to get popped. The bubbles of the white working class aren't any more special than anyone else's.

Weneedarevolution Fri 11-Nov-16 08:27:58

Hadley Freeman calls no one stupid. She points out some Trump voters are well paid and well educated. She says we should not patronise white, working class voters in the UK by being 'nice' to them. She wants debates to be had, she does not want "of course we care" lies to be told.

Exactly where is she insulting?

bakewelltarty Fri 11-Nov-16 08:31:18

I agree that name calling and insults shouldn't happen, but I can see why they do.

It's the frustration. People like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage play on people's fears for their own gain. They know that ill educated, disenfranchised people, searching desperately for anything to improve their lives, will cling to the nonsense that they spout. The sound bites, the patriotism, the blaming others for what is wrong in their own lives, it all adds up until they are convinced that all their problems are down to immigrants, or liberals, or anyone else but not us.

Donald Trump isn't a 'man of the people'. He is as entitled, elitist and self serving as they come. But people believe him and that then causes frustration in the rest of the population who are a little more aware of politics and world issues or can just see through what these people are doing.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not knocking anyone who voted for what they felt was best for them and their country. I do however, hate these people who play on their fears with often no regard for any sort of truth.

It's going to take someone who can bring both sides together. I'm not holding my breath.

Weneedarevolution Fri 11-Nov-16 08:35:03

Where in this article is there name calling? Where are the insults being hurled at ordinary people in this article?

I don't think pointing out Trump is a racist, sexist, bigot is name calling when it is indisputably true.

InfiniteSheldon Fri 11-Nov-16 08:39:09

Point proved

user1478551766 Fri 11-Nov-16 08:43:00

They aren't losing because of stupid voters but largely because these voters dislike being called stupid

They are losing because of the stupid voters voting for the likes of Trump. Don't blame "the left"

bakewelltarty Fri 11-Nov-16 08:47:45

What point was 'proved' Sheldon?

InfiniteSheldon Fri 11-Nov-16 08:50:26

The propensity for name calling turns people off

Weneedarevolution Fri 11-Nov-16 08:50:32

The point is that "voters are being called names" where exactly?

Trump - we can provide proof to back up these comments so they are not insults they are true:
Sexist = pussy gate
Racist = Mexicans are rapists
Bigot = see above

Where in the article are voters insulted? I am not patronising you I am asking you to prove the point you are making. I have now it's your turn.

bakewelltarty Fri 11-Nov-16 08:53:00

100% agree with weeneedarevolution

Where exactly is the name calling????

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