To think that 16% pay inequality between the sexes isn't necessarily a problem....

(253 Posts)
Bananabread123 Thu 10-Nov-16 23:15:34

.... so long as:

1) men and women are paid equivalent amounts where there is parity of responsibility, experience and competence

2) affordable childcare is available

3) men and women are equally able to take career breaks for the purpose of child rearing, and that cultural barriers inhibiting this are removed

4) there is equality of access to money and spending decisions for women in households where the man is the main breadwinner (and vice versa)

5) Barriers that prevent or dissuade women from working in high paid professions are removed.

Why do I say this?... because in my experience women, on average, tend to want to lead on child rearing, and that this is a biological tendency that exists over and above any cultural norms. Clearly it will be different for every couple, but I'm talking about norms here. Not all, but many women want to take time off after their babies. And many (not all) women embrace the flexibility of part time work when children are young. And if that being the case, they will have less experience than their male counterparts, and it follows they should expect to be paid less on average.

Bananabread123 Thu 10-Nov-16 23:19:24

I should clarify that I meant that a degree of pay inequality isn't necessarily a problem... the 16% figure almost certainly is!

LouisvilleLlama Thu 10-Nov-16 23:20:01

The wage gap is misconstrued anyway, even if they negate to mention certain variables like hours worked,it's an average between every male and every female in all jobs such as CEOs and nursery teachers for example and not a nursery teacher vs nursery teacher scenario in which if there is a gap its ridiculously smaller percentage almost negligible if any difference

Beebeeeight Thu 10-Nov-16 23:21:41

Sexist bullshit.

Are you trump?

Overthinker2016 Thu 10-Nov-16 23:23:17

I don't really understand your point, as the 6 points you list are not the case at the moment. Thus the wage gap is an issue.

DontTouchTheMoustache Thu 10-Nov-16 23:24:26

Also your sentiments suggest that all women have children and take the lead with parenting. This post is nonsense.

Wrinklytights Thu 10-Nov-16 23:24:50

Well none those 5 things do happen most of the time, and most of them contribute to the pay gap so YABU and disingenuous.

Bananabread123 Thu 10-Nov-16 23:24:55

Why is this so sexist? It's that kind of superior sneering dismissal of anything that doesn't fit with liberal dogma that is one of the reason we've got Trump!... (btw I would have voted Clinton if a US citizen)

SpeakNoWords Thu 10-Nov-16 23:25:50

If all those things were true then the pay gap would be smaller or negligible surely? As more men would also be part time and take longer off work for paternity leave.

AnyFucker Thu 10-Nov-16 23:27:05

Every single one of your qualifiers are nowhere near in place

Your "point" is moot

Bananabread123 Thu 10-Nov-16 23:27:06

all women have children and take the lead with parenting.

I was at pains to point out that I didn't mean 'all'.... just that it's a fact that mums take the lead when it comes to child rearing, and many (not all!) are very happy to do so!

Overthinker2016 Thu 10-Nov-16 23:27:13

Also not all women have children and those women are often paid less and promoted less than men.

For example out of my graduate intake of 13 (2 men). The two men have been promoted to the most senior positions. The women have done ok but none are in the most senior position. Some of the women have children, some do not. Both of the men have children. Out of the intake the men were not viewed at the "most promising" at the outset.

Overthinker2016 Thu 10-Nov-16 23:29:02

So what exactly is your point OP?

Bananabread123 Thu 10-Nov-16 23:29:25

If all those things were true then the pay gap would be smaller or negligible surely?

Exactly... they're not true and our efforts should focussing on making them true. This should be the emphasis, not on insisting on a goal of pay parity that can never and probably should never be reached.

PuntasticUsername Thu 10-Nov-16 23:29:25

"It's that kind of superior sneering dismissal of anything that doesn't fit with liberal dogma that is one of the reason we've got Trump!"

Within ten minutes of the thread starting. Hilarious. "And the award for embarrassingly huge hyperbolic leaps of logic goes to...".

SpeakNoWords Thu 10-Nov-16 23:31:44

Those things are being argued for, they're not new ideas.

AnyFucker Thu 10-Nov-16 23:32:00

It's goady fuckery. With bullet points.

mrsmalcolmreynolds Thu 10-Nov-16 23:32:17

OP you say the 16% gap isn't a problem so long as the following 5 things are in place. However they are not in place! So the two things cannot currently be decoupled, therefore by your own logic the pay gap is a problem.

That's not liberal sneering it's the logical conclusion derived from your own post hmm.

Bananabread123 Thu 10-Nov-16 23:32:52

Within ten minutes of the thread starting. Hilarious. "And the award for embarrassingly huge hyperbolic leaps of logic goes to...".

hmm it wasn't me who brought Trump into this. If you seriously think that my question is akin to Trump-like 'grab me by the pussy' sexism then you're narrow minded in the extreme!

PuntasticUsername Thu 10-Nov-16 23:34:37

Riiiiiiiiiiight.

Bananabread123 Thu 10-Nov-16 23:35:12

OP you say the 16% gap isn't a problem so long as the following 5 things are in place

I qualified the 16% in my follow up post ... my mistake. 16% is indicative of the fact that my 5 conditions aren't in place.

However , I maintain that 'a' pay gap isn't necessarily a problem.

SilentBiscuits Thu 10-Nov-16 23:35:42

Your OP is contradictory and illogical.

fakenamefornow Thu 10-Nov-16 23:37:50

Unfortunately we don't currently meet your qualifiers anyway.

But, to an extent I think you have a point. We've tried to make women just fit in to a male model of working instead of making work adjust fit into women's lives. I think (ideally) women work more part time and don't climb the greasy pole because they have a better work/life balance but I think the reality is that they just have too much to do at home.

Overthinker2016 Thu 10-Nov-16 23:37:54

So by your own omission there is a problem then - because the 5 conditions are not in place. Which causes a gender gap.

Bananabread123 Thu 10-Nov-16 23:37:59

To clarify again... there is a problem with the current pay gap. It's too high.

However to argue we should aim for no pay gap is going too far as mor women than men choose willingly to lead on child rearing.

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