Women should be more careful and stay safe

[Lighthouseturquoise]

Aibu to think men should follow this too?

We're always being told we should stay safe. Not get too drunk, not go home with men we don't know, not get into dodgy taxis, not dress provocatively, get to know a man before having sex with him. Or else we are risking being raped.

Surely the same should apply to men so they are not putting themselves into a position where they might be accused of rape.

Shouldn't we be telling men not to shag drunk young women that they've just met?

Why is it acceptable for men to behave like animals but not women?

I'll admit that in my late teens I had a few drunken one night stands, definitely not rape, but then I also got into a couple of tricky situations when drunk with men that I did not want to have sex with but who were frightening and forceful, where I could have easily been raped but luckily for me I managed to get away.

Does that mean that if I had been raped the fact that I'd previously consented while drunk means none of those men were at all culpable?

[HarryPottersMagicWand]

It shouldn't mean that. But given the ridiculous recent verdict, it's possible now!

I agree. Women are told to look after and try and protect themselves. Same should go for men too. If a woman is blind drunk then just bloody don't risk it! I hate to think how drunk I used to get when younger. I would have been conscious but completely incapable of consenting properly to anything. I think it is an important message to tell men. Also, check their age! Can't remember which case it was now but it involved a 15 year old girl (sure it was high profile) and I remember my brother and his mates saying it was her fault because she looked older etc and if she is in a club then they assume she is older. I tried to say differently but I think it fell on deaf ears.

[missyB1]

We all (men and women) have a responsibility to ourselves to try and stay safe. Taking basic precautions, and yes I would say not having sex with someone who is blind drunk comes into that category.

[AyeAmarok]

Does that mean that if I had been raped the fact that I'd previously consented while drunk means none of those men were at all culpable?

Yes.

Only a virgin can be raped.

And it really is only a stranger in a dark alleyway that counts as rape.

A stranger breaking into a locked, dark hotel room isn't enough.

It's been an educational day, eh.

[AyeAmarok]

And no, men don't need to protect themselves, because how the man behaves (previously, during and after the assault) is irrelevant.

The main thing that is relevant in a court of law is how the victim behaves in the weeks leading up to being attacked by a stranger.

Hooray for justice.

[bellasuewow]

Why should men be told not to behave like animals when society will not judge or punish them for it?
If they are a good person then great but if not then they have a green light to do what they want without consequences due to this shocking verdict.
It is as if feminism never happened.
As women we are still locked out of legal institutions it seems.

[DoesAnyoneReadTheseThings]

AyeAmarok, that can't be right. What was a woman doing on her own down a dark alley? She should've done what she needed to do during daylight hours or gone with friends or family. She shouldn't have been on her own and it wouldn't have happened. Also, what was she wearing? That's what I'd like to know.

[JenLindleyShitMom]

I really think we need to start sending the message home that men's dicks won't fall off if they don't have sex. That ending your night with a shag doesn't have to be a goal. That it's still a brilliant fucking date if your semen is still in your testicles the next morning. That your desire to have sex is wayyy down the list of priorities for everyone else on the planet and that if you need to ejaculate that badly the world invites you to find a quiet room to help yourself achieve that. The sense of entitlement that oozes out of so many men is just disgusting. That they think their wish to have sex is anyone's concern but their own???

[Batteriesallgone]

Jen amazing post agree totally

[madein1995]

This so annoys me, it's been an infuriating day. Hate the view that women need to protect themselves from being raped - nothing to do with how men act, of course. And people wonder why there's such a low number of rapes reported. It's because we live in a male dominated society, where women are still unlikely to be believed by authority figures. I thought things were getting better, clearly not. There's still the attitude of women shouldn't throw themselves at men. I'm volunteering in town in the evenings and Im not happy getting public transport home due to the walk in the dark the other end. I shouldn't feel that. Countless times I've held on to my key when walking as protection. And I can't even begin to think Of The amount of times I've kept my headphones in but paused the music when walking so I can hear the man's footsteps behind me and if they speed up etc. I've spent Years arguing with my mum and dad over what constitutes consent and domestic abuse and arguing over victim blaming. It seems I might not have bothered as the law still believes it. It's funny how it's all women's fault and responsibility isn't it. It's always us in our short skirts tempting the 'poor' men, it's not their fault they can't keep it In their trousers oh no. I'm not saying safety shouldn't be considered - not wise for anyone to walk through wooded area at midnight etc but it's funny how the onus is always on women. It's sad how so many of us take precautions to try prevent ourselves fron harm (keys, avoiding dark) and how often we don't even recognise were doing it. Society as a whole paints us as more vulnerable - so it's up to us to take extra care and be suspicious, rather than we shouldn't have to fear what we do.

[Lighthouseturquoise]

All I'm seeing on Facebook is memes saying women should be jailed for falsely accusing men of rape.

No one ever considers that actually no one will ever know what went on in that room. Given that only (what is it 5%) of rapists get found guilty or get to court, should we jail 95% of accusers? Really?

If I went out tonight, got drunk off my face and went back to a hotel with a man and got raped, few would be sympathetic to me. Yet if the man got found not guilty, he'd get all the sympathy in the world, no one would be telling him he should have been more careful where he put his dick and who he went home with.

[AwkwardSquad]

Handy rape prevention tips, originally posted by the Washington State Coalition Against Domestic Violence :

1. Don’t put drugs in women’s drinks.
   
2. When you see a woman walking by herself, leave her alone.
   
3. If you pull over to help a woman whose car has broken down, remember not to rape her.
   
4. If you are in an elevator and a woman gets in, don’t rape her.
   
5. When you encounter a woman who is asleep, the safest course of action is to not rape her.
   
6. Never creep into a woman’s home through an unlocked door or window, or spring out at her from between parked cars, or rape her.
   
7. Remember, people go to the laundry room to do their laundry. Do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.
   
8. Use the Buddy System! If it is inconvenient for you to stop yourself from raping women, ask a trusted friend to accompany you at all times.
   
9. Carry a rape whistle. If you find that you are about to rape someone, blow the whistle until someone comes to stop you.
   

10. Don’t forget: Honesty is the best policy. When asking a woman out on a date, don’t pretend that you are interested in her as a person; tell her straight up that you expect to be raping her later. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the woman may take it as a sign that you do not plan to rape her.

[ClopySow]

I think this says it well

[Bruce02]

My 12 year old dd is away with my parents this weekend. TBH I am dreading her coming home. She has been following what's been going on and it's already confusing her. She will want to talk about, I am happy to discuss this stuff to her. But how the fuck do I explain it that in a way that's not 'basically a man can do what the fuck he wants and it will be your fault anyway'.

We have talked about drinking with dd. We live near York. I am terrified that she will get drunk and fall in the river. It's seems to happen every year. I should be able to talk about drinking from a safety point of view not from a 'if you drink a bit too much it will be your fault if a man rapes you'.

I got drunk once and walked home. I was lucky I wasn't run over. That's what I should be worrying about with dd. Not this shit.

[ClopySow]

Cross post awkward

Awkward

[TheDowagerCuntess]

It's far worse to be accused of rape, than it is to actually be raped.

Message heard, loud and clear.

[PaulDacreCuntyMcCuntFace]

Beyond infuriating. Basically recent developments mean that:

1. You should dress modestly - up to the neck, something shapeless and ankle length and dull, which doesn't draw attention.
   

1. You shouldn't drink, because you'll make yourself vulnerable and if someone takes advantage of that vulnerability, then that's your fault.
   

1. You should not have sex before marriage or outside of marriage. Any kind of consenting sexual relationship that happened for fun, or on a casual basis, will be brought up as evidence of your moral laxity - because let's face it, if you once told one bloke to do something in bed, then that must mean that you do it all the time, even when someone's raping you.
   

1. In fact, to be really safe then all women should be subject to purdah and never leave the house.
   

I find myself in equal measures enraged about the message this sends out to girls, and worried for my nieces who are growing up with this bullshit rhetoric. Why does it feel like we are going backwards?

[WordYaGoBernadette]

I detest the alcohol culture in UK society. Why do we think it's acceptable for both sexes to get pissed out of their minds? It's on display in every town centre every weekend and will multiply during the run up to Christmas and New Year.

I'm hoping to teach my DD (12) that she doesn't have to get so drunk that she wakes up in a strange hotel room, lying in her own urine unaware that she's had sex with one man and been raped by another. Unfortunately, my advice might get drowned out by peer pressure and societal norms.

OP - YANBU

[AwkwardSquad]

It really does feel like we are going backwards. We are going to have to fight the same fights over and over again about rights, respect and bodily autonomy, or we will find that it's all been taken away.

[AwkwardSquad]

How about teaching sons not to rape even if the woman is pissed out of her mind?

[FoxesOnSocks]

Something else I've seen thought about: men are more likely statistically to be physically attacked when on a night out (pretty sure that's correct) yet the victim is rarely blamed. Men are not told to take care of themselves by drinking less or by not looking at strangers.

(I know it isn't the best comparison because the vast majority of this violent crime is caused by a man, so same sex - but it's more the fact women are responsible for preventing harm to themselves, men aren't.)

[FoxesOnSocks]

How about teaching sons not to rape even if the woman is pissed out of her mind?
You know people have reacted with horror to the fact that when my son got 'the talk' in school I asked him had the spoken to him about respecting your girlfriend/boyfriend (they hadn't). I then had a brief chat with him about respect and consent and waiting for his girlfriend/boyfriend to be happy and also interested as he was in kissing or touching (as he was only 11): this chat I had with him seems to shock people - as I tell them without meantioning feelings or respect then 'the talk' is just biology.

[AwkwardSquad]

Good work, Foxes. Both sexes need to learn about consent, it's not just down to one party!

[Headofthehive55]

I hope none of my children (DD and DS) get so drunk that they become unaware of what's happening to them or to be able to make good decisions. That really shocks me actually.

[DoinItFine]

This verdict discriminates against non-rapist criminals.

We now need to ensure that you can admit to shooting someone in the head and get found not guilty of murder because the person you shot didn't mind.

It should be up to the perpetrator whether the thing they did is a crime for all crimes. Not just rape.

[toptoe]

Most men I know would never sexually assault women.

A small minority do and they do it often (that is my belief).

What we need is for the majority of men to stand with us and believe us when we say we're sexually assaulted or harassed. They need to know how to respond to the men who do this to us. They need to know what to do or say if one of their mates harasses a woman when they're out and about, not just ignore it or say 'it's just Alan being a dick'. They should make it clear what these men do is unacceptable. They should protect vulnerable people from being assaulted. They should step in when they see a man harassing a woman. I've heard that one of the men filming the assault is now a teacher. They were behaving like 'lads' but actually were endorsing assault. If they'd have had a bit of education about it, perhaps they would have prevented it happening or called the police.

Sadly, even women have a hard time believing another woman has/is being assaulted or harassed. They too should be taught not to turn a blind eye.

It's like bullying at school or harassment at work. The turning of the cheek that we are all guilty of and not knowing what to do if we think something is happening is what the key to this all is. We all need to culturally change our response to these situations from fearing reprisals if we speak out to actually standing together to tell the abusers it is not acceptable and we'll all shun them if they continue with this behaviour.

A judge saying it's ok to pay witnesses, ok to allow previous sexual encounter stuff in, ok to have sex with a woman so drunk she can't remember that endorses this sexual assault behaviour. The judge in this case has isolated the victim and allowed the perpetrator to be protected. It's the opposite of what we should be doing as a society and represents a huge regression back to the time when it was admissable evidence to talk about a woman's clothes, where she was, what she had drunk and her previous sexual history as reasons for her being assaulted.