... to expect people who use parent & baby car parking spaces to have children with them?

(443 Posts)
VickyG333 Sat 04-Dec-10 22:27:15

I have never, in any shopping centre or supermarket or wherever I have been shopping but can't find a space, seen all the disabled bays taken - there are always empty disabled spaces even when the rest of the car park is rammed. Without exception. Anyone ever seen them all full?!

handlemecarefully Mon 12-Feb-07 09:51:54

"Its about engine and fuel economy and emissions"

If only it was...but actually it's about politics and scapegoatism (and easy targets ).

I've done a fair bit of research into this and fuel economy of large MPVs is pretty much the same as fuel economy of many 4 x 4's

It's 'pick m mix' environmentalism

2shoescoveredinhearts Sat 10-Feb-07 15:53:50

bobalinga can you go on sn as will speak to you there

2shoescoveredinhearts Sat 10-Feb-07 15:52:38

(blue badges have to be renewed every 3 years)

3andnomore Sat 10-Feb-07 12:06:53

housemum, p&t spaces aren't just usefull because they are more spacious though, it's also a road safety issue...so,position does matter to some extent, too.

bobalinga Sat 10-Feb-07 11:55:15

I find the expiry date intrigiuing too. And the expiry date on DLA. My DD has severe cerebral palsy and is blind. When the blue badge arrived with an expiry date i did call the council and asked if they knew a cure for CP was on its way as they'd only given me 5 years!
The concil woman agreed it was a stupid rule. I reckon its so they can get extra money cos you have to keep renewign the darn thing.
With DLA I tried to get a lifetime award but they said cos she might die before 18 they didn't do that. Cheery soulds at the DLA place.

housemum Sat 10-Feb-07 10:35:53

Back to the orignal post re P & T spaces (knew we'd deviate somewhere...) - why don't car park designers put them further away from the shop entrance so they are only useful because they are larger for getting car seats/toddlers in and out? The ideal spaces would be large ones about 2-3 feet out from the wall so they have a low fenced walkway running behind them to the store/shopping centre.

TBH I couldn't be arsed chasing round for P & T spaces. Reading Oracle shopping centre's car park designers obviously thought they were a pain as they don't have any at all.

housemum Sat 10-Feb-07 10:30:45

See that's the kind of thing that bugs me - why put an expiry date on if it's a permanent disability? And if they can issue badges with dates, why don't they give them to people with a genuine need ie someone whose child has their legs in plaster at a 90 degree angle for months? (I'm sure the system depends on where you are and who your doctor is as some people struggle and others get them too easily - I know a lady who had serious heart surgery and would get breathless easily - fine she had a badge issued, but 5 years on she is as fit as you or I yet will hunt out the blue badge spaces just 'cos she has one and I have even been in the car where she waited for a space rather than park on the other side of the car park, even though she can yomp across the countryside walking for miles in her free time)

Pixel Sat 10-Feb-07 00:15:55

Housemum, my ds has a permanent disability but his blue badge still has an expiry date on it. I think it's just to give me one thing more to worry about, ie how we will manage if they refuse to renew it.

2shoescoveredinhearts Fri 09-Feb-07 23:50:51

VeniVidiVickiQV thanks knew there was a good reason. but was being rather dense.

I actually think the woman I saw ended up parking in the disabled bays (she parked just as I was waiting for the traffic lights). I do have a disabled badge for DS but he wasn't with me, so I didn't park there.

Pann Fri 09-Feb-07 23:33:14

and they are so aesthetically displeasing.

BassMama Fri 09-Feb-07 23:32:16

Just wanted to add - Was at Asda today, and there were 8 cars parked in a row in the disabled bay, NONE had disabled stickers on them. EIGHT!! I also saw a woman struggling to get the very disabled woman she was with into her car as there was not enough space where she had had to park, in the normal bit.

Selfish Bastards.

VeniVidiVickiQV Fri 09-Feb-07 23:27:26

Its not about number of seats lol!

Its about engine and fuel economy and emissions.

2shoescoveredinhearts Fri 09-Feb-07 23:22:24

can I just ask a rather silly question
if a 4X4 can have 7 seats and so can a car like an espace. why are 4x4 so bad?
I know I should know sorry.

handlemecarefully Fri 09-Feb-07 22:21:18

Yes my 4x4 has 7 seats too drifter.

And in answer to your question "What makes a 4x4 worse than an espace then?", the answer is 'politics' don't you think?

I saw a fight today over a P&T space, when I got to the shops there was a P&T which I used (dd2 was with me) when I left, a woman sat waiting for me to load up the car, strap DD2 in, take back trolley, and reverse out. Then as I came out and around her, another woman came up behind me and nicked the space. There was an argument and as I left I noticed the 2nd woman hadn't moved, and when I was out on the main road, the first woman was still waiting for a P&T space. Why waste all that time waiting, when there was spaces nearby that weren't P&T but just as close...

housemum Fri 09-Feb-07 13:32:06

... and re my earlier post I still think it's daft that someone can't get an expiry-dated disabled badge for a condition where you can't get in/out of a normal space!

housemum Fri 09-Feb-07 13:30:13

OK - my ignorance and I'll put my hands up to that one! I've only ever seen the 5 seaters so assumed they were all just 5 seats, headroom and big wheels! Sorry!

drifter Fri 09-Feb-07 13:12:19

I'm not in the mood for THAT discussion either, but incidentally, both my current and previous 4x4 did have 7 seats. Strange argument against them in my view.

housemum Fri 09-Feb-07 12:58:15

I just like winding people up! Actually, the bus is used as little as poss and a lot of journeys are done in my small hatchback but as we frequently go out with relatives and I also pick up nephew and friends from school, I figure it's better to use one large car that seats all 6/7 than drive in tandem. My gripe with 4x4s if you don't need them for steep roads/dirt tracks etc is that they still only hold 5 people.

I'm just in a mood for stirring it though - have seen this discussion before!

drifter Fri 09-Feb-07 12:24:43

What makes a 4x4 worse than an espace then?

housemum Fri 09-Feb-07 12:20:33

Ooh, so many posts...

Just thought I'd add another bit of bloody mad bureacracy to the p & T/disabled badge thing.

Apparently a disability has to be permanent to get a blue badge - which makes sense if, say, you have a broken leg and are on crutches OK you're inconvenienced but not disbled. I think there may also be some kind of age thing as well? (Someone on here will know the details I'm sure) But there was a pic in our local rag recently of a child about 18 months who had whatever it is with the hips that meant she was in one of those casts where the legs are in plaster and held apart by a rod. Why can't blue badges be issued with a big printed expiry date stamped on at the hospital? The poor woman is stuck with either getting 2 buses to get to the shops or parking and hoping there's a wide P & T space, or parking next to an empty space and waiting till someone comes back to their car if they park next to her.

Think of that when you're thinking it's tough!!

PS I drive a "bus" occasionally and manage to fit most normal car parks so that excuse doesn't wash! NB it's a diesel Espace not a 4x4 before someone lets my virtual tyres down!! I HATE 4x4s in town (my friend has one but she's excused as she tows a horsebox at weekends!)

3andnomore Fri 09-Feb-07 12:15:17

Vicky, glad it was just a joke then.
Nannynickers...I meantioned that down below, no car seat in the car doesn't necessarily tell one anything in todays world of Babycarriers.

nannynickers Fri 09-Feb-07 11:08:31

Another point - I have been ticketed (a polite notice from Tesco's) for parking in a mother & child space when there was no car seat in my car. BUT it was an *infant carrier* and so was in the store with me! I did take baby & 'polite notice' back into the store for an apology!

On the other hand I have seen people use those spaces with car seats but no children with them, it must be difficult for supermarkets/shopping centres to police.

Glad you were joking Vicky, but I have seen people with babies park in disabled bays, when the P&T spaces are full.
Sorry for my rant

Vicky75 Thu 08-Feb-07 22:09:39

I feel really sick that I've upset so many people & that they've got so cross towards me.

2shoescoveredinhearts Thu 08-Feb-07 21:59:24

Vicky75 glad you were joking

Vicky75 Thu 08-Feb-07 21:57:26

God, I'm really sorry for offending anyone. Of course I don't park in the disabled places-if there aren't any mother/baby spaces I park right at the other end of the car park where there is loads of empty bays so I've got room. I wouldn't dream of taking a place away from the elderly or disabled-I used to move out of the elderly seats on the bus when I was pregnant!
I did a joke in bad taste & I apologise

jenwa Thu 08-Feb-07 20:51:04

i dont think having a baby makes you disabled or qualify for a space. I know plenty of disabled people and work with many who have disabilites but this is not about that, this thread started with being annoyed about mother and baby spaces.

I dont park in disabled spaces (only the two times metioned) and at the nursing home I can move my car as soon as required (and have only parked in that space twice since my gran been there) Would never park in disabled space normally and would feel uncomfortble doing so as I am well aware of the difficulties and possible use of equipment people have who use them.

bumblebeee Thu 08-Feb-07 20:40:43

But it is going on, and on and on.......yawn

ladymariner Thu 08-Feb-07 19:19:30

Amazed this is still going on, but I have to say I think a PO counter for blonde Librans is a much more fulfilling proposal, jimjams, emerald & bumblebee!!!! (do you have to be a natural blonde though?!!)
(By the way, it is not my intention to trivialise any of this thread, most people seem to have some really valid, if opposing, views.)

LittleBoSheep Thu 08-Feb-07 19:10:59

Oh bloody hell if this was a flea bitten labrador it would have been put out of its misery by now.

again at some of these posts!! (i think that a every day so far) Having a baby DOES NOT make you disabled and I think that anyone that does it, is bloodly out of order. My DS is 9 and has Cerebral Palsy, he is mobile (atm) but as the years have passed he has got slower and he finds the effort of walking very very tiring, but he refuses to give up. Why should he forfit his walking, to go into a wheelchair because I can't get parked in a disabled bay, and has to park further awaY because some VERY selfish mother has decided that her and her baby are more important......

Muminfife Thu 08-Feb-07 17:08:33

hitchcock - is there a time after which one may no longer bring one's offspring to the grocery store??
i have been known to put a pinafore over dd's pyjamas and take her shopping at 10pm, or if we're on the way back from a dinner party and need something essential, pop in at about 1 in the morning, bringing kids with me if awake.
am i going to have to go to prison??
i actually never go to a supermarket before 6pm, as i find this increases the likelyhood of a rampaging pensioner belting my unborn child-containing bump with a basket or trolley.
i mean, ok, i have aspergers and social phobia, so i am quite sure i have less resolve than most, but supermarkets are a bit terrifying.
so i'm a bit concerned there's another one of those unwritten social rules i have yet to find out about it - please somebody write these things down for me!!
regarding parking in a disabled parking space when not carrying a disabled badge or asking permission with the front desk - this to me symbolises a flagrant disregard of the rules which make britain such a lovely rule-bound place. just too freaky for me. i would quite literally have a panic attack if i did this.
but i can understand people getting frustrated if other people are obviously breaking rules too.
i love this thread - it could be changed to 'victims of supermarket-carpark-related crime' to give a wider scope and add interest.
they seem to turn people into nutters.
why would somebody seeing a pregnant woman with two young children and a belly containing either a baby or a debilatating tumour drive across a zebra crossing and nearly kill them (well, make them nervous)? what are the odds of more than one person in a queue of five cars being crazy enough to do this?
about 3:1 it seems.
people are very disconcerting.

tirnanog Thu 08-Feb-07 16:52:37

that has really made my day,thankyou

2shoes Thu 08-Feb-07 16:51:34

well said tirnanog i have said you were lovely before and I will say it again

tirnanog Thu 08-Feb-07 16:35:00

There is absolutely no excuses that can justify the use of a disabled parking bay by an abled bodied person.This discussion has rumbled on for days now and I'm completely amazed by some of the posts,life is hard enough when you are unable to walk very well or far but to find your ability to park in a spot which is designated to you ,not because it happens to be convenient but because it is essential is incomprehensible.

2shoes Thu 08-Feb-07 16:15:35

so if you can park in disabled bays i can park in p&t bays.

jenwa Thu 08-Feb-07 15:57:32

3andnomore - I know thats what people are annoyed about, just agreeing with her re car park monitor.

I dont park in disabled places myself but know people who have. Although I do when I visit my gran in her nursing home as they are normally the only spaces left and the other ones are even more narrow then normal ones! I am there early and there are never any disabled drivers there and they know who I am if I need to move. (only park there when dd with me)

In our local carpark there are loads of disabled spaces and they never get filled , oph yes did park there once too but that was as the whole floor was empty and it appeared all mother and babys were parking there!

have not done though in tescos or at any other occassion.

misdee Thu 08-Feb-07 15:54:24

do not use disabled bays if not disabled. simple really isnt it?

having a baaaaaaaby does not make you disabled. i can neogiate a packed car park with 3 terrors, one with ASD traits, quite easily. shove my dh in the car, and if we cant get a disabled space or an end space for him to swing his door wide open, get his heart equipment in and out etc etc then we turn round and go home.

3andnomore Thu 08-Feb-07 15:51:33

Jenwa, the problem is not the statement of becoming the carpark-monitor....the statement that she now uses the disabled bays instead is what is shocking, and being stressed or hormonla, or feeling wrong done by does NOT excuse that.

jenwa Thu 08-Feb-07 15:49:09

God!! Every one is very stressed and its getting nasty!!!!

Vicky - I sometimes get sooo wound up feel like reporting too and have done once, how sad though!!!! Why do we get so stressed!!!

3andnomore Thu 08-Feb-07 15:47:56

That si very bad then...indeed having a BAby is definately nothing like being disabled and it would be appalling behaviour.

IntergalacticWalrus Thu 08-Feb-07 15:34:59

Me too misdee. But hey ho.

misdee Thu 08-Feb-07 15:33:57

yeah fuck off is better



*gonna get told off for that.

IntergalacticWalrus Thu 08-Feb-07 15:32:22

I know it's a long thread and all that, but if she'd read the first few posts, she might have got the jist.

2shoes Thu 08-Feb-07 15:29:53

she is not a troll as she is on one of the meet up threads.

IntergalacticWalrus Thu 08-Feb-07 15:27:41

I would have said fuck off myself, but that's just me

misdee Thu 08-Feb-07 15:26:09

haha. i have been pretty restrained.


i hope to god she is joking, having a baby is nothing like being disabled.

IntergalacticWalrus Thu 08-Feb-07 15:24:50

go misdee. go misdee!

(In a Ricki Lake stylee)

misdee Thu 08-Feb-07 15:22:53

ok,


oh piss off v!

IntergalacticWalrus Thu 08-Feb-07 15:22:21

Go ahead misdee...

3andnomore Thu 08-Feb-07 15:21:27

Vicky, lets hope you are a troll and just taking the piss eh!

misdee Thu 08-Feb-07 15:19:27

can i swear yet?

IntergalacticWalrus Thu 08-Feb-07 15:14:04

The threads on the board go round and round
round and round
round and round

The threads on the board go round and round
All day long.......

<bangs head on desk>

Jimjams2 Thu 08-Feb-07 15:12:27

<<Takes deep breath>>

nah what goes around comes around

Jimjams2 Thu 08-Feb-07 15:11:31

Dunno but I am definitely going to try and get a disabled bay outside my house to piss off as many able bodied as possible

Winnestein did you get my email link to my silly councils silly rules? <<rolls up sleeves ready to do battle>><<with council>>

TheArmadillo Thu 08-Feb-07 15:10:45

"So I just park in the disabled places now! "

I really really hope you are not serious about that bit.

If you are please read the entire thread.

Aloha Thu 08-Feb-07 15:09:51

Is this thing kicking off again?

Jimjams2 Thu 08-Feb-07 15:09:44

<<looks out of window and ponders 1001 other more interestiing things to do>>

Jimjams2 Thu 08-Feb-07 15:09:08

<<thud>>

Vicky75 Thu 08-Feb-07 15:08:37

OMG!!! Since becoming a mum this is my number one bug bear!!! It's like I've become the car park monitor & I've even found myself reporting it to the supermarket customer services when there's car parked there without child seats in!!! What's happening to me-I've become a grumpy old woman!
So I just park in the disabled places now!

yellowrose Wed 07-Feb-07 22:36:00

custardo - did i say you had said anythng derogatory about disabled parking ????

i was just trying to say that talking about disabled parking on a thread that is about another sort of parking isn't that illogocal. it is a comparison.

bumblebeee Wed 07-Feb-07 21:18:27

Agree with mellow, surely we have exhausted this thread now!!

jenwa Wed 07-Feb-07 20:45:48

Smellen - must have had some thing to help drive as cant imagine driving with just one arm. I bet you felt bad, I prob would have too. Although do you need a wider space if you only have one arm? Maybe harder to unload trolley etc.

hitchcock- thats awful, the shop should have at least done something there. What a tosser to do that. Can see why they did not have children!!!

winestein Wed 07-Feb-07 20:19:25

Sorry Mellowma. I tried that one. It didn't work.

Forgot to say: JJ, yes got your email that night and responded. I assume that you didn;t get the reply then and will resend later

winestein Wed 07-Feb-07 20:17:41

I know HMC ... but in my defence Mi Lud, I didn't intend to knock it off and I think that is the point in law as to whether it is criminal damage or not... plus I could have got murder reduced to manslaughter with my hormones, possibly even institutionalised due to diminished responsibility, so in fact he got off really lightly...... (I believe the dimensions you seek JimJams are 2400mm by 4800mm).

Additionally, can I sign your petition please JJ as I am also a brunette born under the sign of Capricorn

margo1974 Wed 07-Feb-07 19:45:25

kaboom! <Mellowma selfimplodes>

ItsMeMellowma Wed 07-Feb-07 19:34:15

hello....sorry this thread is finished now....empty......gone.....nothing more to be said......

Smellen Wed 07-Feb-07 19:18:19

Haven't had time to read all this thread, but earlier this week I went to the supermarket...

The car in front was waiting for the last Parent & Child space, and I was about to drive past when I noticed that there was no kid or child seat in the car. So, feeling righteous about it, I waited until the guy had parked, then as he got out, started with "Excuse me, you do know that's for cars with children..."

I was stopped in my tracks as he got out, turned round, and clearly had only one arm. So the rest of the sentence sort of died in my throat.

Of course he totally blanked me, and I wanted the earth to swallow me up.

I have no problem with a driver with a mobility problem using the parent & child spaces if the disabled spaces are all taken, but having seen friends with toddlers & new babies struggling to get toddler into trolley, baby in sling etc., anyone without a genuine reason for using them should be a bit less selfish.

ItsMeMellowma Wed 07-Feb-07 18:13:36

Right Thats IT!!!!


We know ..... Its Naughty.... Its Not Good... Please please please.... can we all stop this whining on about bloody well parking spaces...pretty please

3andnomore Wed 07-Feb-07 17:36:18

Spoo, I think common sense would tell one that the right age to stop using them is, when a child has some roadsense, is not likely to run off or anything (so, age isn't the only factor)...most children will probably be ready for this around 4, but in a child with sn this could off course be later, if ever.
It really depends on teh child I suppose...my 2 1/2 year old is pretty good and it's safe enough to walk across a carpark with him, now that my ms is 4....now, the 4 year old was a complete nightmare at 2 1/2 and it wouldn't have been safe.

Spoo Wed 07-Feb-07 17:25:32

I have a toddler and a baby so I can appreciate why people get so annoyed. It is bad enough trying to shop with two kids let alone struggling to get car doors open. and negotiating idiots driving at the rate of knots across the car park. My question is this - at what age does a child stop being a child. I see parents with 9 / 10 year olds parking in these spaces and wonder they whether they really feel that they need the extra space or to be closer to the shop. What is the right age to stop?

nannynickers Wed 07-Feb-07 17:23:40

In the town where I work the shopping centre has a floor dedicated to mother and child parking unfortunately to get in OR out you have to negotiate TWO flights of stairs with no lifts! Then when you return to the car and drag your buggy up TWO flights of stairs you have to walk across the level bump down ANOTHER TWO flights to pay for your ticket before draging BACK up the afore mentioned stairs!

The sentiment is great in view of the mother and child parking but surely anyone with more than 2 brain cells could have worked out that this might have proved to be a problem!

<<sighs with relief for getting that off my chest>>

ti Wed 07-Feb-07 17:17:47

its a sinple fact that both P&C spaces along with Disabled spaces are there for the simple reason that people falling into these 2 categories generally need a little more space getting in and out of their cars and its too difficult squeezing in & out of the normal spaces. You circle round trying to find them in the first place and often wait for them because you dont want to scratch the cars adjacent to you. Those people who use them and dont need them are usually crappy drivers with cars that they THINK look great but are completely impractical as they can't actually park them! OR ignorant, selfish people who cant bear the thought that someone else is getting 'a perk' they're not. Odds on these are the same people who you would find with plates piled ludicrouly high at an 'all you can eat' place. Knobs.

bumblebeee Wed 07-Feb-07 16:55:30

LOL, I'm sure that's another debate altogether! I don't think the Capricorns would be too happy....

TheEmeraldCityTourGuide Wed 07-Feb-07 16:52:49

Hmmm... but could a red-headed Taurean use the Brunette capricorn line if wearing a brown hat and making goat-like noises?

bumblebeee Wed 07-Feb-07 16:47:12

I'm with jimjams, brunette Capricorn!

TheEmeraldCityTourGuide Wed 07-Feb-07 16:36:00


Darn you, Jimjams, with your vastly more commonly occurring hair colour!

Jimjams2 Wed 07-Feb-07 16:32:42

you'll need a petition emerald- although I will get more on mine he he he (separate PO counter for brunettes born under the sign of capricorn)

ItsMeMellowma Wed 07-Feb-07 16:30:49

A PETITION LOLOLOL, nice one.....

misdee Wed 07-Feb-07 16:29:39

are you serious?

TheEmeraldCityTourGuide Wed 07-Feb-07 16:28:55

I demand a separate check out in post offices for red headed people born under the sign of Taurus!

hitchcock Wed 07-Feb-07 16:28:44

thanxs ectg it was horrible left us shaking and my 3yr old in tears


never again not worth it

charleymouse Wed 07-Feb-07 16:27:37

Trying again
petition re pc spaces

Jimjams2 Wed 07-Feb-07 16:26:57

pmsl at that petition. There has got to be more important things to start petitions about than that!

TheEmeraldCityTourGuide Wed 07-Feb-07 16:26:46

Exactly, Hitchcock - it's just not worth the hassle.
Sorry to hear about your parking incident - it sounds dreadful.

Jimjams2 Wed 07-Feb-07 16:25:34

You can't moan about winestein on a parking thread, she'll start talking about square metres and centimetres soon.


Winestein I emailed you at last(!) (but my email account was playing up). Did you get it? If not I can resend.

charleymouse Wed 07-Feb-07 16:24:08

\petition{http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/pcspaces/index.html}

hitchcock Wed 07-Feb-07 16:10:14

at christmas dp and family went to supermarket (the one jamie oliver recomends) and there was 2 spaces left in child parking we took 1 and a woman took the other she had no kids and dp pointed that out to her.
she replied that as it was 6 pm she could park where she liked dp sais no that was not the case and that caould she please move to another p.space. she said no she wouldn't and that we should not been shopping with our children aat that time of night.

my dp said what did you say
she walked off

we were queing in the check out where this older man came up shouting at dp and trying to punch dp

in turns out that woman had phone husband and told him that a man had shouted at her and made threats to her

super market said nothing

the fact that we had 2 children there under 3 made no diff to any one he was swaring and tring to punch dp and no one tried to stop him even when i said call the police

now we say nothing as it is no worth it
this stanger could have rally hurt my dp for what?????/a parking space that his wife should not have been using

handlemecarefully Wed 07-Feb-07 15:48:04

That's slightly outrageous winestein. I am genuinely shocked re the criminal damage.

ItsMeMellowma Wed 07-Feb-07 15:38:49

I thought that was an okayish thread tbh!

2shoes Wed 07-Feb-07 15:35:50

oh I so know that feeling LittleBoSheep

LittleBoSheep Wed 07-Feb-07 15:19:29

The other thread was about being too tired to go to work - I was expecting the poster to get a real kicking and made a joking comment to this effect.


here

Sometimes you just think - ohh I seem to be upsetting people, maybe I better go and watch TV instead LOL

3andnomore Wed 07-Feb-07 14:36:13

Well Eidsvold can't have it all ...I mean you already hog the good weather over there

eidsvold Tue 06-Feb-07 21:35:34

i would love to be able to do internet shopping but we don't have that here where I live in Aus - would be brilliant if we did.

winestein Tue 06-Feb-07 21:11:20

norks back at yer

misdee Tue 06-Feb-07 21:09:33

boobies

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 21:07:45

Group-hug is fine by me.

2shoes Tue 06-Feb-07 21:06:44

VeniVidiVickiQV never

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 21:02:16

3and... I know you weren't having a go, I was just blanket apologising to everybody - again. Can we all hold hands and have a group hug???

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 21:00:50

ooops, I wish there was a edit button, lol....

Squonk, look, I wasn't having a go, and you didn't upset me, I don't agree with that bit and said that in my original reply, however, I still ended up taking a lot of stick, because people thought when I meant obviously disabled, I meant I had to see it, which I didn't, hohum...problem with online things is you cna't see the other person.
OH, usually I get into heated debates about Natural via C-section, Breastfeeding threads , Immunisations...and I would think a lot of mn'ers have a wonderful gift to offend (me including)...like I said a tone is hard to be detected in the virtual world
Bumblebee, I agree!
Little Bo sheep, because it would take common sense to actually put the trolley INTO the trolleypark. (Oh got I do really sounds seriously anally retented, eh....but I am a stickler to rules...it's the german genes, I am sure of it)
Custardo, my comment was about this:
custardo on Tue 06-Feb-07 15:29:12
yes you are being unreasonable. why dont you walk with your babies? eh eh? what makes you so special?
Not the one mentioned by you... (not that I am being nitpicking now, me...nonono...not me....)
Winestine, you said that so much more eloquently then me...which, fair enough, is not difficult of course.

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 20:58:14

Squonk, look, I wasn't having a go, and you didn't upset me, I don't agree with that bit and said that in my original reply, however, I still ended up taking a lot of stick, because people thought when I meant obviously disabled, I meant I had to see it, which I didn't, hohum...problem with online things is you cna't see the other person.
OH, usually I get into heated debates about Natural via C-section, Breastfeeding threads , Immunisations...and I would think a lot of mn'ers have a wonderful gift to offend...like I said a tone is hard to be detected in the virtual world
Bumblebee, I agree!
Little Bo sheep, because it would take common sense to actually put the trolley INTO the trolleypark. (Oh got I do really sounds seriously anally retented, eh....but I am a stickler to rules...it's the german genes, I am sure of it)
Custardo, my comment was about this:
custardo on Tue 06-Feb-07 15:29:12
yes you are being unreasonable. why dont you walk with your babies? eh eh? what makes you so special?
Not the one mentioned by you... (not that I am being nitpicking now, me...nonono...not me....)
Winestine, you said that so much more eloquently then me...which, fair enough, is not difficult of course.
custardo on Tue 06-Feb-07 15:29:12
yes you are being unreasonable. why dont you walk with your babies? eh eh? what makes you so special?

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 20:20:45

skibump: It wasn't me who offended everyone on the career mum thread. The first I heard of it was here - sorry. (if you find out where it was, put a link on....)

winestein Tue 06-Feb-07 20:17:19

Not VVV... I meant VB

winestein Tue 06-Feb-07 20:16:44

I took someone's, who had parked in a P&T space with no children (and strode confidently in to the shop I might add), wing mirror off with my trolley once (and no, he didn;t come back with a disabled relative or arms weighed down by children)

I had intended to knock it out of kilter slightly so he would have the inconvenience of getting out and readjusting it (old non-electric fiesta) but the sodding thing came right off. I am not normally prone to random acts of violence against automobiles, but in my defence I had PMT with a new baby, topped up with PND, so it was either that or lay him out in the car park, the idle bastard...

I do think people have a right to be irked by ignorance, as that is what parking in P&T spaces without a need to be close to the store is, and I think that it is part of peoples anger at society for not caring about anyone else - for their selfish attitudes. It irks me, when I have parked at the back of the store, to eventually make it as far as the P&T's and see some idle feck sidle straight into it. It is, at the end of the day, ignorant and disrespectful of community and it is probably* the same people who honk at people getting disabled children into vehicles.

PMSL at Custy's summary post, but you have topped it off beautifully VVV.

Nothing else to see here.. moooove along.

*look at me judging

skibump Tue 06-Feb-07 20:14:43

Any popcorn left? Squonk, which was the 'career mum' thread?

Out of all the thread topics on MN, this one seems to cause the most upset on a regular basis.
Parent and toddler parking spaces are a convenience, not a right.
If they're full, park in a quiet part of the car park, with plenty of space and near a trolley park.
If a disabled person could not park in a disabled parking bay, then I would have no problem with them parking in a P& T space. Their need is greater than than those of parents with babies or toddlers.
People who are not disabled, and who do not have a baby or toddler in the car should not park in the P&T spaces - but sometimes they do. Life is sometimes unfair, but if this is the biggest problem in someone's life, they are very lucky.

LittleBoSheep Tue 06-Feb-07 19:57:12

See thats my problem too custy sometimes I throw in a little pebble to watch the ripples and it creates a tidal wave. LOL

Although actually your post was actually more of a brick than a pebble!!

ItsMeMellowma Tue 06-Feb-07 19:56:21

[notes it is after 6.30pm so comes and parks alongside hunker]

Tortington Tue 06-Feb-07 19:50:06

3andnomore wrote "custardo, doesn't it depend though how far away you live from a shop? "

custy actually wrote

" jesus ladies get over it - and park at the back where theres loads of spaces - and if there arnt your goint at the wrong time - then walk. "

IntergalacticWalrus Tue 06-Feb-07 19:48:10

Farking hell, I go off and do stuff for 24 hours, and this thread is still here and still going round in circles.

[yawn]

Tortington Tue 06-Feb-07 19:46:25

boblinga and yellowrose - please re-read my post get off your high horse and tell me where i mentioned anything ANYTHING DEROGATORY about disabled parking.

VeniVidiVickiQV Tue 06-Feb-07 19:14:51

2shoes - vaguely remember a thread you started a while back that mutated somewhat.....

LittleBoSheep Tue 06-Feb-07 19:13:42

Hey VV....no trolly trapping...thats my trademark (honestly I only did it once - I'd hate to damage someones car)

OH and while we are in the supermarket car park...why do people take their trolley UP to the trolley park and then put it NEXT to it rather than IN so that it rolls off and hits the nearest car?

LittleBoSheep Tue 06-Feb-07 19:10:28

I have to confess to occasionally throwing a virtual pebble into a conversation to watch the ripples spread but I really WOULDN'T do it about disability...just not funny even to my warped humour.

LittleBoSheep Tue 06-Feb-07 19:07:35

2 shoes dont think I DID either and again this thread was not started by squonk as well bodied v disabled...it mutated into it. Dont be so quick to take offence as none was meant (by me at least)

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 19:06:34

fine by me. [kiss emoticon] and I'm still sorry

VeniVidiVickiQV Tue 06-Feb-07 19:06:02

<surrounds hunker with a barrage of empty trolleys>

2shoes Tue 06-Feb-07 19:05:10

squonk lets kiss and make up I am too tired to argue.

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 19:04:04

2shoes: I have apologised several times. I misread the tone of the thread. Would never dream of offending anybody here or in rl. Has nobody else EVER said anything thoughtlessly and then wished they hadn't? EVER? Really?

LittleBoSheep Tue 06-Feb-07 19:02:25

FIO it was Custy's "couldnt buy a melon" that set me off

2shoes Tue 06-Feb-07 19:01:19

bosheep. easy to forgive
but when people make thoughtless comments sometimes about disabled people it can really wind you up.to come back and say oh dear what did I do? is a bit rich.

hunkermunker Tue 06-Feb-07 19:01:06

[parks sideways on thread]

LittleBoSheep Tue 06-Feb-07 19:00:44

Until last week I thought BMC was the British Medical Council...very confused as to why they were referred to on here!!

Ive had a few guises on here too.

FioFio Tue 06-Feb-07 18:55:48

pmsl at custy, youve made my day!

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 18:53:52

Thank you bo. I've been on mn for a while (in various different guises) but have never managed to cause such offence before. I'm not generally an insensitive or nasty person anyway, I'll give the bmc a miss for now

LittleBoSheep Tue 06-Feb-07 18:51:45

Squonk - forgiven and I am SURE this thread is not the last time you will say something on here that upsets someone - there are some very strong personalities on mumsnet and the impersonality of being online seems to make people more outspoken than perhaps they would be in the street.

Yesterday I got a virtual kicking on this thread and on another thread where I made a flippant (joking) remark about "career mums"

God I hope they are not this blunt in RL - how dull to be so stressed all the time LOL

Custy makes me laugh though - I seem to remember a comment about admiring peoples fugly children the other day (I chuckled about that for a while)

bobalinga Tue 06-Feb-07 18:42:59

Bit harsh there Custardo. I'm also disabled and in a wheelchair with DD in a wheelchair These things are vital when it comes to do what normal people do without thinking, get into a shop.

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 18:41:04

I am ashamed, bo; very very ashamed and I am truly sorry for my flippant and misjudged remarks concerning hair products. Can I please be forgiven or do I have to join the bmc?

LittleBoSheep Tue 06-Feb-07 18:24:39

I meant "been amazed"

LittleBoSheep Tue 06-Feb-07 18:24:03

Oh well their website isn’t working properly….shame I was reading and interesting thread from someone who had just amazed by a fight in their office!

Squonk - All the years of support hair gel has given us girls and the second you get a whiff of wax you are off…you should be ashamed of yourself…so fickle.

Ahh cats....the only nice cat is a squashed cat (if anyone gets annoyed with me about that I have to warn you I will PMSL)

Twinklemegan Tue 06-Feb-07 18:09:46

Ah - completely missed that one <stupid emotion>

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 18:07:03

yellowrose Tue 06-Feb-07 18:03:45

now what was it the oap said to the guinea pig ?

or was it the bishop to the lady boy ?

misdee Tue 06-Feb-07 18:02:52

twinklemegan, because f the third post on this sunject.

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 17:59:31

not kittens because they tend to stick in my teeth, and I only eat the really really cute ones with the big brown eyes that look up at you and say "take me home, I'm a nice dog, woof". If you enjoyed this, watch out for my next thread, not going to tell you what it will be called but it will involve a blind man, an oap, a rabid, hunted fox and a guinea pig.

yellowrose Tue 06-Feb-07 17:56:33

squonk - it's not your fault - ALL threads about one thing turn into a thread about something else - that is the beauty of MN

now - how many days old were those puppies you ate ? why not kittens ? i eat those in my spare time - lol

reminds me of blackadder and the
Baby-Eating Bishop of Bath

Twinklemegan Tue 06-Feb-07 17:50:20

I couldn't understand why popcorn and hard hats would be required for such an innocent sounding thread. Now I see and I gather it's not the first time, but how does a thread about parent and child spaces turn into an argument about disability?? <very confused emotion>

ItsMeMellowma Tue 06-Feb-07 17:48:33

Thanks...I think (again)!!

Squonk re: eating puppies, I may have to start a new thread about that one

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 17:32:24

I think I may have to change mine to "Squonkeatscutepuppies" - I didn't even mean to offend the parkers-in-p&c spaces.

bumblebeee Tue 06-Feb-07 17:31:05

It's not a personal attack mellow
If you do it after 6.30 I would guess most kids are eating their tea and it wouldn't bother anyone

ItsMeMellowma Tue 06-Feb-07 17:21:12

thanks bumblebee & squonk - shall I change my name...mellowignoramous??


not .....

bumblebeee Tue 06-Feb-07 17:20:21

I know squonk - it seems to have got a bit lost tho....!

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 17:17:33

Bumblebee - that was my point.

bumblebeee Tue 06-Feb-07 17:14:37

I think the real debate is not between who's worse off the disabled or mother's with babies but the fact that people with neither a disability nor a child park in the spaces allocated for them. I think those people are plain ignorant..

2shoes Tue 06-Feb-07 17:07:09

custardo

PeachyClair Tue 06-Feb-07 17:05:42

There's a severe lack of disabled aprking here (in Cwmbran, rarely go to Newport). They don't charge for parking. so poeple all head for the same car park.

I've never seen a disabled bay free, or a P&T.

For the record, even when I get (I pray!) a blue badge, I would always allow someone with a wheelchair to park in preference as there is a difference between difficult (my situation) and damned impossible. My Nan could only walk for 3 minutes ata time, when the Disabled bays were taken (usually by police cars for some bizarre reason) that was it.

Internet shooping is fab, used to rely on it, but a nightmare with allergy diets to cater for.

yellowrose Tue 06-Feb-07 17:01:49

custardo - the reason i and the other MILLION ??? or so mention disabled parking is because IMO it is so much more difficult for a disabled person to get into a shop than it is for an able mum with able kids. worse still if you are disabled or have a child that is.

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 17:01:01

3nad: I know what I said to upset everyone, I just didn't mean to and I'm sorry

Little Bo: You're using the WRONG hair product - how bl**dy dare you!!!!! Don't you CARE?????

LittleBoSheep Tue 06-Feb-07 16:59:12

I found online shopping great but then I did get it delivered on the cheap days of the week when they are obviously not so busy.

yellowrose Tue 06-Feb-07 16:57:59

3and....i just said something similar about getting hacked off when it is a man in a van, obviously in a hurry to get his lunch break sandwich, could care less whether it is "badge holders" only disabled parking or not ! i saw it often in london

LittleBoSheep Tue 06-Feb-07 16:57:46

Squonk - dont go LOL - I know what you mean though I come on here to get away from the stress and hassle of life not to get even more.

Im off to a girly site to talk about hair gel - im sure you cant scrap about that!

Tortington Tue 06-Feb-07 16:54:18

why does this always turn into disabled parking?

jesus

here it is

should people without young children park in P&T spaced

one million how dare they and personal stories

half a million this happened when i had ds in a wheelchair and couln't buy a melon stories.

ten people ask " why dont they enforce it?"
ten more reply " only the disabled parking is a legal requirement"
one million people state " thats not fair

three people bravely admit parking in M&T space

one million say " your scum"

1 person uses real name and says " i park in diabled bay when there are 10 free - whats the problem"

one million responsed along the same - you're scum lines and 50 mumsnetters telling horrific stories of disabled children/partners not being able to get in tesco for aforementioned melon.


diabilities aside - jesus ladies get over it - and park at the back where theres loads of spaces - and if there arnt your goint at the wrong time - then walk.

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 16:48:42

I absolutly agree...with you yellowrose...especially as it will be those with the least need it, like fit young people, businessmen, etc...that will misuse them
Must say though, due to Corbys very high rate of disability, carparks tend to really have a high amount of disabled carparks, so, here it doesn't seem to be a problem so much...but I suppose it does depend on the area.

yellowrose Tue 06-Feb-07 16:45:24

"Yellowrose, O suppose that was a typo there...I assume you mean perfectly able people without the blue badge parking in disabled Bay...absolutly that is completely wrong".

3andnomore - yes that is what i meant - there are too many able people parking in disabled spaces.


sorry if i confused was typing too fast and jumping threads at same time

aquasea Tue 06-Feb-07 16:37:25

I find online shopping brilliant. We have been doing it for well over a year and hardly ever have problems. If anything is close to it's sell by date you phone up and they refund the money. It saves time, money, hassle, car park rage and just eliminates one of life's chores... what's not to love!

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 16:33:08

Yellowrose, O suppose that was a typo there...I assume you mean perfectly able people without the blue badge parking in disabled Bay...absolutly that is completely wrong.

Squonk, I think it was a slightly later post, not the op, that got people head up a bit, the one where you said:
"By squonk on Mon 05-Feb-07 15:17:01
how about disabled people using the parent & child space because there aren't any disabled ones left? That gets to me, because we wouldn't use their space!! "

Aqua, shopping delivery is not always an option, not everyone has a credit or debit card I suppose. Also, I found when I did online shopping, I often would get the not so nice and fresh looking stuff, or stuff near the sell bye date, which isn't that great...however, it did save me money at the time, as I wasn't doing any impulse buying And at that time, it was worth me doing it, as the delievery costs were about the same as I would have spend on petrol anyway.

aquasea Tue 06-Feb-07 16:18:07

Oh dear, ladies, how about shopping online and getting it delivered?! Solves all the problems!

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 16:17:23

I've tried it before - last time car was broken, but they never seem to deliver what I've asked for; or they send an alternative that is either WAY more expensive, or nothing like what I originally ordered!! But I wouldn't want to complain.

sexkittyinwaiting Tue 06-Feb-07 16:15:35

I still think people who park in them are scum.

yellowrose Tue 06-Feb-07 16:14:17

oh, good idea bout on-line shopping did it once with tesco - during the week it only costs around £3.95 for home delivery which saves a lot of agro plus i probably spend as much on petrol sitting in traffic, etc !

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 16:10:18

thank you yellowrose: Although, my car is of today defunct. Will be doing on-line shopping whether they get it right or not from now on.

bobalinga Tue 06-Feb-07 16:09:02

I must live in the wrong city. Tesco's is always packed to the gills, as is Sainsbury's. S's have about 20 disabled parking and they are always full. I got the store number so I usually call them from outside the door and ask for a member of staff to unload DD for me and then wait with her while I go park.
But I usually go to Tesco's cos its cheaper (althout tehy don't do orange ice lollies :-( )

yellowrose Tue 06-Feb-07 16:08:28

I think there should be special Mumsnet Member Bays

jenwa Tue 06-Feb-07 16:06:48

flutterbee - think the point is that whats the point of having spaces if other people park in them. Wether you decide to use them or not is your choice. I am very slim but still find it an arse when trying to get dd out of car when some t**w has parked so close next to me that I cant open the door wide enough without the fear of knocking their door and knowing the possability of them knocking mine. Just because you think we dont have a life does not mean we cant have out own little bug bears. This is one of mine and obviously one of a fair few parents. it is also obviously a popular and most used facility as places would not make the time to have these bays and they would never be full when trying to park in one.
I never park in disabled bays and dont think i have seen disabled people park in M&B bays.I do get annoyed when people do park in either when they are not disabled or a parent with children as there are peole out there who need them.

yellowrose Tue 06-Feb-07 16:05:09

you can park in my baby and parent space at Tesco's any time you want - the one i go to is nearly always deserted any way

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 16:02:47

no point talking to me - I've gone

yellowrose Tue 06-Feb-07 16:01:00

squonk - you are being unreasonable for leaving the thread

lazyanna Tue 06-Feb-07 15:59:41

I think, morally, that unless there is clearly no where else to park, and no extenuating circumstances that you should probably be allowed to put those VERY sticky labels that traffic people use on their window

fryalot Tue 06-Feb-07 15:56:42

for the record: I was talking about perfectly able bodied people with no children (able bodied or otherwise) using spaces clearly marked as for parents with children. I have NO problem with people who need a larger space - for whatever reason using them. Again, for the record, my nearest shop is 8 miles away from my house. If you think I should walk that with three small children..... Again, I didn't mean to offend, upset or annoy anyone; it was supposed to be a lighthearted rant about things that annoy me. Obviously, the answer to the original question (am I being unreasonable....) is obviously YES. <Squonk leaves thread she unwittingly started>

yellowrose Tue 06-Feb-07 15:47:59

but how many disabled people do you see parking in disabled parking which imo is even worse ?

dh has a friend who is in a wheelchair and says he never finds space in disabled parking - always taken up by inconsiderate, lazy b**s

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 15:40:13

custardo, doesn't it depend though how far away you live from a shop?
Must admit, since we moved to Corby I do usually now walk to the shops, as we live near a Morrisons and a Asda, so, only tend to use the car if I am on my way to go somewhere else further away. However, when we lived in teh country the neares shop was 10 or more miles away, no footpaths neither...not ideal...I don't mind walking 2-3 miles either way, as I do now, but 10 or more, hm....although, then I tended to do online shopping....

Tortington Tue 06-Feb-07 15:29:12

yes you are being unreasonable. why dont you walk with your babies? eh eh? what makes you so special?

Bobalina Tue 06-Feb-07 15:26:32

bobalinga - like the name

bobalinga Tue 06-Feb-07 15:23:31

Maybe we're too much into convenience now? I lived in the States for 2 years and used to watch bemused as perfectly healthy people ignored further away spaces and drove round and round for ages trying to get as close to the store as possible. then I get bavk and see it happening here.
If I don't have the wheelchaired one with me I tend to park some distance away cos there's loads of places and I can get doors open etc. Don't mind the saunter across the car park.
But usually, if I'm DD free I cycle or catch the bus. Lot less stressy :-)

Bobalina Tue 06-Feb-07 15:23:04

Thank you LS

And Flutterbee, I agree totally.

Jimjams2 Tue 06-Feb-07 15:19:32

flutterbee- I'm rather lardy arsed as well and can manage it (and have an oversized car).

Not sure that the parking spaces are the problems at the glades- if you can get around the very tight corners you should be able to manage the spaces really.

The disabled vs non-disabled thing kicked off because once again lots of people seem to think that having children is equivalent in difficulty to having a child. When its not. Anyway my severely disabled blue badge holder son can sprint (more than sprint he can run like the wind) into the store. I'm sure the guy was having a larf, but it's not worth assuming anything.

Agree with Aloha as well- the P andd T spots are the worst places for accidents as they're full of people cramming in near the door.

LittleSarah Tue 06-Feb-07 15:12:20

Well I could add my own thoughts but this post (Bobalina) said it all too well -

'I am amazed at this thread. Only recently discovered p&t bays but never use them. I've only recently started driving to the shops. For many years I carried 5 bags of shopping and a baby on the buses to get home. To think that it pisses some of you off that you cannot get into your designated bay because (god forbid) a disabled person has parked there beggars belief.

I do not use p&t bays (with my 3 children) because I feel they are of better use to the elderly and disabled. Wouldn't dream of pulling them up for parking in them.'

sexkittyinwaiting Tue 06-Feb-07 15:02:27

People who park in these spaces without children are complete t**sers. That's all there is to it.

flutterbee Tue 06-Feb-07 14:56:21

That my in the last line shouldn't be there.

flutterbee Tue 06-Feb-07 14:54:57

I got half way through this thread and thought bloody hell get a life.

Can someone please tell me how I a hugely overweight person can manage to get DS in and out of the car with no trouble and no need for a P&T space yet every other woman on here finds this some what impossible.

DH and I have never ever had trouble with this kind of thing and neither has my Mum (who I have just spoken to about this) and she has had 7 children.

What is you problem?

Take them all away and replace them all with my Disabled parking spaces so the people who actually need the space can get it.

sarz Tue 06-Feb-07 14:47:50

This is my biggest problem and the one thing in the world that stresses me out!!!! Worse than the arrogant t**ts in their flash cars who use the p&t spacese are the parents without children, who should know how it feels to get a child into a child seat while squeezed between 2 cars with a toddler trying to kick you in the face and your arse sticking out for the world to see.!!!!
Phew, you can tell who had a bad trip to waitrose today!!

misdee Tue 06-Feb-07 14:45:32

this turned into disabled v non disabled after the 3rd post. it was never going ti lighthearted.

tinkerbellie Tue 06-Feb-07 14:43:27

i would like to point out as well that the taxi bays in such supermarkets have no shelter and usually you get soaked whilst you wait to be picked up why do they make these things like this when they know that their customers will be waiting there?


also internet shopping is stupid as they have nothing in stock most ofthe time the delivery comes late or too early and they substitute stupid stuff when the stuff if out of stock, and, and and they give you all the stuff that is goung out of date!!!!

sorry am sooo articulate

Aloha Tue 06-Feb-07 14:41:32

I would never park in a disabled space. When it comes to P&T spaces, I think it is good to remember how dangerous car parks are for young children. I think they are one of the most likely places for children to be hit and injured by a car. They really scare me tbh.

bumblebeee Tue 06-Feb-07 14:39:51

Oh Squonk, a relief to hear it be said!! I get so p*d off with people doing that!! I would never usually do this but once - just once - in the pouring rain with 2 small kids, parked in a fairly empty disabled bay because all the M&B ones were full and ended up getting a mouthful from some guy in a wheelchair (who did have one of the many disabled spaces). Also is it just me or are the M&B ones always as far away from the bloody entrance as possible!??

tinkerbellie Tue 06-Feb-07 14:37:26

my morrsons store is ridiculous the car park is on a really steep slope, the trolleys have no brakes and there are NO m and t places at all

do you get your baby out of the trolley first and allow your shopping to diappear off down the carpark or the other way round??

i don;t go any more

i didn;t think that the point of the spaces is so mouch that they are closer to the door just the space issue so you have room to get your buggy out and up and your child into it without being knocked down. luckily i can't drive so get dropped off in a taxi at the front door or walk there

although i could start up a completely different thread about people who park in front of your house when they have a perfectly good drive and then watch you struggle with two kids and loads of shopping cos you can;t pull up anywhere near your house

margo1974 Tue 06-Feb-07 14:32:53

This is the reply to the e-mail I sent to my local shopping centre complaining about the size of their spaces



thankyou for your email dated 10/11/06 , i do appreciate the problems you would of encountered and empaphise with the problems that our car park can sometimes cause.Just to give you some history , being a Town Centre car park ,we unfortunately doent have the luxury of our counterparts like Bluewater that have the appropriate space allocated, due to not having council or land restrictions. We would like to dedicate more space per car but as mentioned this is not realistic when trying to encapulate the needs of the local car usuage as we do not have enough spaces as it stands.
However i am looking at areas located near entrances in the view of enlarging and creating more including disabled parking , this may take though a couple of months to action so should be available after christmas.
Hopefully you will be aware of the new baby changing facilities that are now open on the car park level 2 , this should show you that we do care and are trying to make improvements to our centre , geared towards our customer. Hopefully this will not stop you shopping at the Glades, however if you need further assistance please ring me on 0208 313 9292
Laurie Taylor
Operations Manager
Bromley Glades Shopping Centre (CSC)

LittleBoSheep Tue 06-Feb-07 14:17:37

Margo - my point exactly I dont CARE if the space is by the front door or in the far corner I just dont want to damage someone elses car getting my children out. Its not so bad now they are older & more mobile so they both come out one side.

I guess it just comes down to greed on the part of the shops, they want to get in as many spaces and therefore customers as possible irrelevant of whether or not you can actually get out of the car once parked.

Interesting that this started out as a lighthearted "this annoys me thread" and again got turned into a disabled v non disabled bun fight.

For the record I have never...nor would I ever toot my horn at a disabled bus and the guy I blocked in RAN into the store...a disabled space right by the door should be for someone who would struggle to get in, he was young and rather fit a slightly longer RUN wouldnt have hurt him.

jenwa Tue 06-Feb-07 13:07:54

ohhh, a bugbear of mine too!!

I got annoyed when driving around our local car park which has about 5 floors and only 8 babyspaces (which are the most awkward to park in) and when I do find one some woman parks in at (after I drove around to get in it) and walks out of her car and goes shoppine (no children!)), I told the car park attendent as I was sooooo annoyed and its trivial really but when it comes to getting dd out the car in to her buggy bags out and back in again it is a pain and people just dont think.

I also get annoyed that at Tesco's there are several M & B spaces scattered around but you have to walk a fair distance to get the trolley. Why cant they put spaces together with a trolley park at reach! Would make sense!

I felt guilty the other day as I went shopping with dd and my mum we did our shop then had a coffee so whilst mum ordered coffee I went back to car and put shopping away. I was so paranoid that someone would have a go at me as I did not have my dd with me and wanted to stick a sign up explaining I was with my child (she was in cafe with my mum) and I was just dropping shopping back.

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 13:05:23

lol

ItsMeMellowma Tue 06-Feb-07 13:03:59

Thanks...I think!

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 12:52:53

Mellow that is o.k. then...you are not selfish then I happily take that back

margo1974 Tue 06-Feb-07 12:49:58

I can't believe RL people have been so nasty to those of you who are bb holders/parents of bb holders.

I do think they should make general spaces bigger and I would think that 100% of us with non SN children would not be posting on here complaining about how hard done by we are. I, for one, don't care where I park, just about if I can get a toddler and a car seat out of the car without damaging my car or anothers.

ItsMeMellowma Tue 06-Feb-07 12:48:35

Sorry I didn't come back to this thread....

I just cannot find it within myself to debate/argue/dis-agree with anyone about a parking space......

For the record though, yes its generally after 6ish I use the PT spaces....and my local supermarket is very quiet...hence me using it in the first place.

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 12:10:54

Jimjams, may have misread mellos posts then, but I was under the impression it wasn't solely a matter of after 6.30...evenings are different...Kids shouldn't be out shopping then anyway, lol!

Bobalinga, what a horrible nasty thing to have had said to you about your child (spastic comment) Some people truly do not know how lucky they are

ipanemagirl Tue 06-Feb-07 12:03:33

in our sainsbury's there's usually blokes in suits on their own in cars eating sandwiches dotted around the special parking areas, or blokes in vans running in. I've asked the Sainsbury's info people about it but they clearly don't want to antagonise money spending customers.

Jimjams2 Tue 06-Feb-07 12:03:22

I thought mellow said earlier that she only parked in them after 6.30 pm- and I must admit I do use them if I'm shopping after kids bed times. I seriously just can;t get worked up about it. I don' park in them myself if I don't have kids with me, but I can't muster up the energy to get irate about it. I do get irate about people parking in disabled bays because (depends on the situation- we're not usually that needy for a disabled bay in a supermarket-we are in other situations) it can mean an absolute meltdown.

eidsvold Tue 06-Feb-07 11:56:48

I am pretty sure here in Aus they are a legal requirement - so many per area iyswim.

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 11:56:07

JimJams, it's a selfish way to think though...isn't it?
But lol at your mums comment

bobalinga Tue 06-Feb-07 11:55:31

The disabled bays in supermarket car parks are courtesy only cos they are on private land. Unfortunately. Most supermarkets do check them, the exception being Sainsbury's who refuse to do so.

eidsvold Tue 06-Feb-07 11:45:42

still comes down to they are a courtesy NOT a legal requirement for shops to have them unlike disabled spaces....

Bob at the comments....

Jimjams2 Tue 06-Feb-07 11:42:28

ah I don't think the cold is anything to get hung up about- it's only walking across a car park- - think the body is designed to cope with that.

I remmeber when I was being all PFB about ds1 getting wet and my mum said "oh FGS he won't rust".

bob @ the spastic comment.

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 11:07:59

Bobolinga, that is terrible...the more I read in this thread, the more I understand why people with disabled/sn children get so wound up by a thread of this kind...

bobalinga Tue 06-Feb-07 11:04:30

Just to leap on in here....a thread after my own sopabox. I have a 3 yo so qualify for M&T space and she has a blue badge cos she is in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy.
yet I've been accosted in both types of spaces. One was another mother telling me to take my spastic to the blue badge space when i parked in a M$T bay, the other time was a person telling me cos my DD is 3 we should be in a M&T space and not using up a disabled bay!
You can't win!
My pet hate is when parked outside my house in our disabled bay...my car has 'please leave wheelchair space' written on it yet shoppers (we live 20 yards from a high St) park to within an inch of the back. No way of evening opening the back let alone putting the ramps down and getting the wheelchair in. So I have to pull 90 degrees across the road and then ramp the child in, holding up the traffic, lots of poeple beeping. And there's 4 car parks scattered off the High St but they charge 20 whole pence.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
The only reason I have a stupid car is cos of DD. When the other 3 were younger we managed on the bus and by walking. Soon as this city gets accessible buses the car will go. I hate cars grumble mutter etc etc

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 10:37:31

Eidsvold made a good point there as the road safety thing is often the reason why a motherwith Tots might actually could do with a P&T space, if those are the ones near the door/safe path.
I know for people with non sn Kids this is only a phase, but in that phase they those spaces CAN make the difference.

3andnomore Tue 06-Feb-07 10:34:29

Mellow, how would you feel the if it is freezing and you are with Kids but can't get a P&T space or anything nearby because they are all full with people that don't NEED it?

I really think that the problem is that P&T spaces are often NOT used with commonsense, , if all the people using them would actually need them, then there would be no reason for anyone to get annoyed about it, lol...problem solved To easy right?

SurvivingTheTerrbileTwos Tue 06-Feb-07 10:20:15

Our local morrisons has 6 P & T parking spaces in the six spaces furthest away from the front door of the shop and another 8 P & T spaces at the opposite end of the car park. (again a good five or six minute walk away from the main door)

I have only ever once been forced to remonstrate with one shopper who took the last P&T place with his WORKS VAN who immediately apologised and moved it to a normal space, then helped me get DS (who was only about ten months old at the time) out of the car and into his buggy.

But i do think that people who park in them because they are closer to the door of the store (and who don't have kids) are being selfish.

ItsMeMellowma Tue 06-Feb-07 09:33:54

3andnomore - yes.....

eidsvold Tue 06-Feb-07 00:23:09

squonk - if you were disabled or had a child with a disability I think you would feel differently about people who do so using p and t spaces. Essentially they are a courtesy not a legal requirement unlike disabled parking.

my daughter has a disabled badge but was not entitled to one until she was 3!! Made life very difficult with newborn and child with sn who was not walking.

Even now - sometimes we have to abandon shopping trips due to inability to park in either parent and toddler or disabled spaces. She is now 4 1/2 and to look at her you would not really understand why she has a disabled badge - she can walk BUT road awareness and safety are huge issues for us. She cannot walk across a car park. If I just have dd1 then that is okay - but if I have dd2 and when no3 comes along - no way can I do it. So if I can't get a park in disabled bay - park in p and t.

credit/debit cards only for online shopping.

JillybeansNW Mon 05-Feb-07 23:49:50

<<dons cap with star on and salutes the red flag>>
Can I put a little bit of 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their need' in here.
We should have lots of wider, closer spaces for bb cars, lots of wider, closer spaces for P&T, or atleast with covered walkway between the nice wide spaces and the shop. That covers the people who have genuine need.

The 'from each according to their ability' is covered by how much you spend btw.

Then you can have some somewhat closer, somewhat wider spaces which for the sake of argument, we will call 'winker spaces', for all of the people in a rush, people in bmws , businessmen in sportscars buying fags, people with an unoccupied carseats who want to pretend they are with a child etc, etc.

We then just rely on people to accurately guage where they should park.

Oh OK - I know that it all fell apart on that last bit... <<sigh>>

squatchette Mon 05-Feb-07 23:48:37

I have a disabled 4 yr old and a todler and find shopping a complete nightmare let alone parking.
Would love to try doing my shopping online is it credit cards only or do you pay them when they deliver it ?If anyone could enlighten me i'd be really grateful.

clemsterdarcy Mon 05-Feb-07 23:31:54

On line shopping and home deliveries ...

and if you book for a Tuesday/Wed with Sainsburys they charge you about 49p

And saves impulse luxury buying and pester power

I am shocked by some of the messages on here,

one day I went shopping with DH, DS and the DDs, DH took the girls out of the shop, in the trolley, while I had DS in the wheelchair at the Kiosk. Anyway, as he approached our huge motability car, with disbaled stickers on the back and a blue badge displayed, this old man started shouting at DH and really going into one, saying 'you can't park there, YOU'RE not disabled' etc!! DH turned round and calmly said 'oh yes you are right, I'M not, but she is (points to DD1) and so is my son who is still in the shop' When I came out with DS in his wheelchair, the man just blushed and got in his car and drove off very fast

People need to realise that children can be disabled, the amount of times I have had dirty looks because I am blatently not disabled and I always get out first to help DS, until I get out his wheelchair, or if he is walking, when he starts walking then people realise he is the disabled one, not me.

Twinklemegan Mon 05-Feb-07 22:08:08

The P&T spaces are the only safe ones at my supermarket. The car park is absolutely packed 90% of the time - you have to drive round and round and sit waiting for a space. Some people drive round there like maniacs and DS in his pushchair is pretty vulnerable. And yes I do expect only people with children to use them, unfortunately not always the case. I've been tempted to nip into one before when I've had the car seat in the car with no DS, but I'm so honest I've opted for driving round and round instead <removes halo for dusting>.

Bozza Mon 05-Feb-07 22:00:19

Is everyone's car park always packed? TBH it never occurs to me to use P&T with my 5 and 2yos. I haven't really bothered with them at all since DD could sit up (at 5 months) and so go in an ordinary trolley. I just part at the back near a trolley bay, and load the kids in that way. Except that I don't even do that anymore. I just park where I feel like, make DS unfasten DD's seatbelt, make them both get out at the same side (2 door car), grab a hand each and away we go to collect a trolley at the front of the store. Then when we get back I open the door for them to climb in and be getting into their seats, unload the shopping, return trolley to nearby bay, reach into back to fasten DD's belt and away we go.

It is really easy. Young children are small and flexible and lithe.

I do realise that I am very lucky jimjams/misdee/peachy etc.

winestein Mon 05-Feb-07 21:51:05

Olive.. no, not once, never ever.

JJ.. I have a new address now which is rather more apt (that one is still active though). It's thewomanthatwas@.....
When you get chance, I will always be here to help, don't fret

VeniVidiVickiQV Mon 05-Feb-07 21:40:17

JimJams....I was googling to find a hard stare and found this and pmsl

Millarkie Mon 05-Feb-07 21:39:56

Jimjams - I saw one of your posts much further down this thread. Just wanted to let you know that the handbrake on the multipla is on the right hand side of the driver (by the driver's door) and there are no knobs/buttons in front of the left hand passenger seat, (but middle passenger is in front of radio and gear stick so not safe - big mistake when I let my ds sit there).

onlyjoking Mon 05-Feb-07 21:30:50

you see i have never managed to do the full on arms crossed bit cos am usually clinging on to at least two kids
i just don't make the grade, is there a course i can do?

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 21:29:21

You can bet the risk assessments will go down the pan if they think that they have to pay for a taxi- then hey presto bus it will be!

oliveoil Mon 05-Feb-07 21:29:11

Has this been done before?

<<wanders off to watch Fame on TCM>>

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 21:28:42

OJ!

Taxi it is then!

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 21:27:54

You need my crossed arms as well for full effect

onlyjoking Mon 05-Feb-07 21:27:25

well you see if the bus has to reverse with kids on they have to have someone walk behind the bus, who of course has CBR checks, first aid training, risk assesssments, i am sure you get the picture

VeniVidiVickiQV Mon 05-Feb-07 21:24:28

ROFL - (I have quite a scrape down one side. You dont notice it so much since i scraped the car down the side of a skip though)

I'd love to see your penetrating stare JJ - maybe we could replace with a lickle piccie of a JJ stare?

<runs away before JJ gives me a stare>

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 21:24:08

OJ that sounds like madness!

Ds1's school bus reverses. If they can't reverse with kids on the bus then they'll have to pick up your dds first won't they. OR they'll have to send a taxi. There - you can tell them you've solved the problem. Transport can be complete gits, but worth fighting I think.

onlyjoking Mon 05-Feb-07 21:24:07

i'd just set my kids on them, that would work

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 21:21:20

PMSL - I've managed to hit my car full whack with the trolley before.

Believe me I have a very scary stare (complete with crossed arms) and I follow their car up the road

onlyjoking Mon 05-Feb-07 21:19:57

don't get me started on the school bus. we managed to get the school bus stop moved to a quiet car park due to this sort of thing and also DD legging accross the road when she saw a dog. having a new battle now trying to get the school bus to pick my two up from the house due to DH being so ill that i can't leave him, transport people say no because we live on a close and they are not allowed to reverse whilst kids are on the bus.

VeniVidiVickiQV Mon 05-Feb-07 21:18:40

JJ - really! Can you only muster a stare for folk like that.....?

I like P & T spaces. They help me to not scratch my car with the trolley

Well except for the one time...


Which reminds me....must get bb's renewed.....

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 21:14:18

PMSL @ walking too slowly!!!

How did society get to this?. I know I've banged on about it on this thread but I am genuinely shocked when people beep at ds1 to hurry up getting onto his school bus. I mean OK maybe they think he's off to some school for badly behaved children, but some of the other children on the bus are very obviously disabled. How caught up in your own life is it possible to be to beep at them for inconveniencing you.

I really think that people who do that are sick. How can you get irritated by disabled people inconveniencing you? Last time it hapened (very recently) the escort told me to give the woman the benefit of the doubt in case she'ddone it by accident, so I did; then she screamed up off the road revving her engine as soon as the bus drove off, and I wished I'd given her one of my stares. Silly cow.

mummytosteven Mon 05-Feb-07 21:13:14

yes, my friend in her mid twenties had an orange badge due to ongoing affects of a benign pancreatic tumour - some disabilities/conditions are invisible I bet even to the trained eye, never mind us supermarket shoppers.

hunkermunker Mon 05-Feb-07 21:09:07

Sorry, Jimjams

I have firsthand experience of this - I was 22, slim, not unattractive - and had an orange badge (as they were then). The looks I got - from other people with badges, from the general public - I was Not Popular wherever I was parked (for "taking up a space" or "walking too slowly across the car park").

I don't need it now, but I do have more empathy than some of the emptyheaded idiots on this thread.

mummytosteven Mon 05-Feb-07 21:07:05

IMHO - couldn't give a stuff about P & T spaces - nice enough but not essential, but disabled parking is pretty much sacrosanct. Then again nearly all my shopping is done with bus and buggy!

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 21:05:16

pmsl @ your email address winestein!

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 21:03:48

hunker I am drinking beer for a change rather than wine and you've just made me choke on the bubbles. And I was accused of being rude earlier (for calling people princesses ).

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 21:02:05

OMG winestein. Do you know I ended up somehow (god knows how because I'm careful to never let it happen), on my own with the 3 kids in the car. And there was nowhere to park, except around the corner and on the other side of the road. And I couldn't work out how to get the 3 children into the house without risking losing one of them, and I cursed myself for being crap and not sorting this out. In the end it was a complete nightmare, ds1 wanted to do his business with the neighbours window, ds3 wouldn't walk in the same direction as ds1 wanted to go- he ended up lying down on the street, ds1 was still trying to do his thing with the neighbours windows straining at my hand, thank god for ds2.

Am off to find your CAT now.........

CristinaTheAstonishing Mon 05-Feb-07 21:02:02

To the OP: I used to get angry too. A couple of weeks ago I took DD to nursery and then stopped at Sainsbury's on the way back and parked in the M&T places. When coming out I was disorientated because I thought for a moment I had lost DD. Then I realised I'd parked in the M&T without having her in the car, just force of habit. I also saw a health professional I know on coming out. Not one of my proudest moments.

IntergalacticWalrus Mon 05-Feb-07 21:00:04

quadrophenia Mon 05-Feb-07 20:59:29

I am going to park in my supermarkets p and t spaces when i'm not doing the shopping and then walk all the way home and then come back later

ok so thats just tooo stupid

hunkermunker Mon 05-Feb-07 20:57:28

Oh, OK.

<posts the original version>

Yes.

Honestly, all of you who get so het up about this, and so indignant that somebody with a disability might for one second inconvenience your blinkered twattish life - fuck off.

IntergalacticWalrus Mon 05-Feb-07 20:56:30

Don't hold back now, will you Hunker

hunkermunker Mon 05-Feb-07 20:55:02

Yes.

Honestly, all of you who get so het up about this, and so indignant that somebody with a disability might for one second inconvenience your blinkered twattish life - grow up.

IntergalacticWalrus Mon 05-Feb-07 20:53:32

Will it be when you don;t have the children with you HM?

hunkermunker Mon 05-Feb-07 20:52:05

I'm going to park sideways across three P&T spaces from now on.

onlyjoking Mon 05-Feb-07 20:39:07

i made some lovely cards with a lovely winne the pooh picture on and they said
ignorance lazyness & a bad attitude are not recognized disabilities kindly park elsewhere.

PeachyClair Mon 05-Feb-07 20:27:56

I shall try that next time JimJams. Dh keeps me moving because he knows there's about 2 seconds to get me away before I cotton on and explode at people (I'm a bit slow on the uptake).

Dh actually did it in a restaurant recently when DS1 was rocking and accidentally squished a girls fingers (their chairs were back to back- you can tell it was a posh venue can't you? LOL). An apology was never more quickly obtained!

Fortunately ds3 is still really passive. As long as you follow the same line of slabs on the pavement, and don't walk the wrong way home you're on a winner. And I'm that institutionalised it doesn't even occur to em to do things that aren't in the routine now. Paed asked how ds3 was with new foods- we had to admi8t we didnt know we live by the alws of AS already !!!!

winestein Mon 05-Feb-07 20:23:57

Oh, there you are!

winestein Mon 05-Feb-07 20:23:32

Oi, Jimjams... come back. I need to insult you.
You never did get back to me on the parking thing I CATed you about. You're bleeding hopeless woman - sat there watching Trisha and painting your toenails all day, I'll wager

Meeee? On a parking thread? At this time of night? With my reputation? <snort>

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 20:22:44

Peachy - if people come over for a good gawp I've found that if you physically can hold eye contact with the person and mouth "don't stare" at them they will generally shuffle off with just a few backward glances. Sometimes you can;t do it because you have to be 100% dealing with arms and legs, but if you can it does work well.

PeachyClair Mon 05-Feb-07 20:21:50

I don't think DH wouldcall me restrained LOL!

I think ball breaking bitch would be more like it TBH.

I blame it on the LEA.

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 20:21:02

Peachy that is horrid.....people tend to look don't they...I don't have sn children, so, can't actually compare it, but I find it bad enough when you get the accusing looks when you have 2 Tots trying to out-tantrum eachother...but at least that isn't always...and like I said, you can't really compare that....although, seeing that probably most people actually have lived through that experience, it never seizes to amaze me how lil people show understanding for it? I suppose there is no hope then if you have a sn child that others would be understanding.

dingdongjustforyoufg Mon 05-Feb-07 20:18:28

Peachy that would drive me nuts and I admire your restraint, don't think I could keep so calm

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 20:16:48

lol pinktulips, I am glad that it wasn't jsut me noticing that...I am sure that by law it is illegal to park over the white lines...or has somebody just told me that as a wind up, lol!

And, yeah, I can see the humour bit about the cops using a p&t space whilest being there for a parking problem in the first place, lol!

PeachyClair Mon 05-Feb-07 20:16:39

My parents managed without a car, still do despite Mum being disabled and largely unable to walk(but she won't admit she is- too much pride).

I hate the staring looks from old aldies. That time I got knowcked out, some old biddy just stared at me through the whole incident with a reallya ccusatory look on her face . And when DS1 does the supermarket bit we get comments of whya ren't they controlling him. Erm, because we can't. Sorry. (In Asda one shop assistant called her mates over for a look- I wanted to flip but Dh forbade me).

dingdongjustforyoufg Mon 05-Feb-07 20:12:34

I'm pretty certain my parents managed without them (but then, I think my mum took us on the bus most of the time) and i cannot understand why people get so wound up about it. If I can't get in a P&T space I park as near as I can and the DTs cope, often by climbing across the backseats to both get out of the same side if necessary. To suggest that we 'genuinely need' these spaces is just laughable, frankly.

onlyjoking Mon 05-Feb-07 20:12:18

you see i am more than used to filty looks, just cos my three don't use a wheelchair some people think i am taking the mick parking in the blue badge bit,an elderly lady who was parked next to me the other week saw fit to wave her blue badge at me so i got out my three kids blue badges and my own that has expired and waved all four at her
i get annoyed at people who park in the blue badge bit without a badge cos they are just gonna be a minute, or just popping to the cash machine.

PinkTulips Mon 05-Feb-07 20:12:05

snort... the irish can't park for shit. dp goes into parking rage every time we're out as every other car takes up 2-4 spaces (i mean it takes a concerted effort to take up 4 spaces!)

can we all agree though that a cop car taking up the p&t spot at a health centre is bang out of order though? i mean they were there to sort a parking violation fgs! does no one else get the irony of that? could care less if anyone else took it but a freakin cop car!

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 20:04:51

OH, also, another reason was, that if P&T spaces were taken , generally all the other spaces near that trolley park would also be taken or unusable (I mean, the Irish just can't park within their white lines, lol....),so, I had to park right at the back, out of sight of the trolley park, and the trolley park at the back was always empty sods law, I suppose

IntergalacticWalrus Mon 05-Feb-07 20:03:23

Smart cars are enough to induce rage on their own, imho

SoupDragon Mon 05-Feb-07 20:02:31

I got p-ed off by a stupid 2 seater Smart car parked in a P&T spot. OK, they did have a carseat in the front but did they really need an extra wide space for their toy car??

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 20:01:59

Jimjams, I obviously can't say for 100% sure that I would defiantely know there was somehting wrong with your son or whatever, but I honestly do seem to have some sort of radar, not sure if it is to do with Nursing or not, maybe I am weird afterall.
As for teh NI thing....well, when we moved out there we had a fair few Bombthreads, things like that, and security was upped and I just always had this paranoid feeling....probably not helped by me suffering (mild)PTSD/PND.
We did actually, and still have a Irish registration, we never bothered to change it.

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 19:56:51

Apologies 3andnomore- you're right it's BoPeep who was busy blocking people in with her trolley. I misread. I do think it is worth remembering that even severe disabilites can be very hidden though. Usually if I take ds1 shoping I have him on his belt, but I'm trying to drop that a bit when I'm with someone else. And really if you see him at a time when he's walking quietly you would have no idea. If he started going off on one you would. I don;t think being a nurse helps at all with someone like ds1 as he doesn't have medical needs. We have had contact with some very good phlebotomists who were obviously experienced with the ds1's of the world, but other experiences of drs and nurses has been that they really haven't had a clue about his disability - they don't really have any reason to though.

One thing I'm interested in is why you didn't feel safe walking across a car park to get a trolley in NI (genuine question). Was it because of having a GB plate, or specifically because of being in the army (so worried about being tailed or whatever). I only ask because we've spent quite a bit if time in NI with GB plates and I've never felt unsafe there (although I've never been over as a service family). Just wondering whether I should have!

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 19:56:14

it was walking sticks at dawn.

someone once told us 'parent and child are over there'. we hadnt had a chance to get the badge up and clock sorted.

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 19:53:39

that is terrible misdee....lijke I say, for me, saying if it was "obvious" wasn't so much to what one sees, it really wasn't, but now, I get why you and jimjams got ticked off.

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 19:49:20

possibly, but unless you are trained (like you are) then it isnt obvious to every tom dick or harry. little old ladies used to yell at him for taking one of their spaces.

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 19:47:52

Misdee, one can usually pick up though if someone just doesn't "look" right, he did probably "look" off colour if he got easily breathless, etc...

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 19:47:04

i want to shop nooooooooooow.


all the kdis are asleep. dh is clicking behind me.

driving me batty today.

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 19:46:28

lol Intergalacti

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 19:46:13

but he didnt look weak or use crutches. unless you say him half way round the shop feelign abit breathless you wouldnt know.

PeachyClair Mon 05-Feb-07 19:46:09

God Misdee. Can you imagine shopping in the evenings? I don't pretend my situation is anything like yours (Dh works nights so I have to stay in- no babysitters and no car) but it is horrid being cooped up isnt it? And very isolating.

In term time I can actually go without the kids (last time i was alone with the kids in town (Dh was talking to someone at the bank) DS1 had a meltdown and knocked me (over and out, albeit briefly). Bt I am already starting to panic about half term- a whole week of being indoors and internet shopping (very difficult when you have dairy and allergy free diets to cater for).

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 19:45:52

Sorry for appaling spelling, but typing faster then I should.

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 19:45:14

Misdee, next time I make sure I add all thsoe on crutches, looking weak etc...
I really mean those that are blatantly obvious that they do NOT need the space and there are plenty of those that use them....businessmen are one lot, I think on that a lot of people have agreed.

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 19:42:23

Jimjams, get your fact straight, I never ever would and never ever have blocked anyone in.
To me obvious is more then what teh eye sees...I am a Nurse, I have worked with peopel of all sorts of disabilities, visual and not so visual, so, please don't be so presumptious.

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 19:41:44

I blame mothercare.

parp.

IntergalacticWalrus Mon 05-Feb-07 19:41:34
misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 19:41:20

'By 3andnomore on Mon 05-Feb-07 19:35:25
Jimjams....but I am not saying that it pees me off if they are used by people that need it more (Parent, disabled, very pg and waddlling, elderly that look like they can't walk very far), I am only peed off when people that very OBVIOUS don't need it use it. What is so wrong about that?'


just pointing out that before the op dh wasnt obviously disabled at all. thats what i interupted your post to say.

sorry if iread it wrong.

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 19:40:11

You're very into "obvious" disability 2andnomore. I suspect you wouldn't notice my son was disabled. And yet he'll cost social services a huge amount of (taxpayers) money in the future because his care needs are and always will be so high- he needs 1:1 24 hours a day and 2:1 in certain situations- that is very very very expensive. But I bet if you saw us (especially as I only go when there are 2 adults so he doesn't have to be so directed- which helps) you'd be busy blocking us in with your trolley, and tutting.

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 19:39:54

WHERE DID I SAY THAT SOMEONE HAS TO LOOK DISABLED?????????????

LittleBoSheep Mon 05-Feb-07 19:38:27

Oh Jim Jams you sound like you belong in playgroup...ive fallen out with you before...I cant understand why you need to resort to calling people "names" when they dont just agree with everything you say.

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 19:38:13

3andnomore, because not all disabilities are visable.


2-5years ago my dh did not look disabled. he looked perfectly normal.

its only now that he has a bloody great big LVAD sticking out of his stomache do we stop getting evil looks off other shoppers when we get oput of the car whilst using blue bays.

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 19:37:27

and jimjams, what do you mean the weirdest view on disability...didn't think I was all that weird, and really can't see why I offended so much.

IntergalacticWalrus Mon 05-Feb-07 19:36:27

Anyway, going to the supermarket is the only time I get away from my brats.

It's deep joy.

And I don;t have to get het up over some parking spaces.

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 19:36:19

if we cant get a disabled/p+t/endspace spot, we cant go shopping. full stop!

i have spent all day cooped up waiting for a bloody blood nurse, i cant go shopping now as my dh requires 24hour care, and i cant leave him alone.


right now, i would love to be able to go in th evenings to do the shopping with no kids and no medical equipment to lug about. to take my time and leisurly stroll about. and get some ben and jerrys.

If we all got thinner and thinner, we could fit into all the normal spaces even if parked next to an enormous 4x4
That's the answer I think, Eat less everyone

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 19:35:27

dunno misdee, but I'm off. Ah well I know exactly the type of person who beeps at special school buses now when they have to wait for a child to climb on. It's ALWAYS women as well. I now assume mothers doing terribly important playgroup runs.

I was looking for the post about blocking someone in who didn't look disabled enough. Is that for real?

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 19:35:25

Jimjams....but I am not saying that it pees me off if they are used by people that need it more (Parent, disabled, very pg and waddlling, elderly that look like they can't walk very far), I am only peed off when people that very OBVIOUS don't need it use it. What is so wrong about that?

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 19:33:35

"Oh yes I COULD go in the evening when the kids are in bed (after my work at home day, school/playgroup runs, after school clubs, cooking tea and doing homework) but why the hell should I."

P<SL ahhh diddums. Are you sure you're not a Princess. playgroup runs (rolls on floor howling with laughter).

try being disabled if you want to understand inconvenience.

Mercy Mon 05-Feb-07 19:32:02

Haven't read the thread but get the gist.

How on earth do you think people coped before P&T places were invented - which was pretty recently afaik.

LittleBoSheep Mon 05-Feb-07 19:31:04

JIM JAMS....the door hubbys new car was damaged when someone in a 4 x 4 opened their door into it (of course didnt leave us any insurance details)

SORRY I would rather NOT do that to someone else...call me a bitch if you want - WEIRD I thought that made me a considerate person.

IntergalacticWalrus Mon 05-Feb-07 19:30:20

Farking hell, I go and give the DSs a bath and do their dinner and this is still going on, and still going round in circles!

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 19:30:08

tsk how dare they.



jj, why am i on this thread?

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 19:29:39

Peachy, I can honestly say that I would NOT begrudge you a P&T parking space, I honestly don't have a problem with someone using it that needs it more then I do (indeed, now that ys is 2 1/2y and ms is 4 and es is 10, I don't really use the spaces anymore now, as it's much easier now with them and I feel I should leave the space free for people that will need it more, which is why it ticks me off if people misuse them),
Btw, a friend of mine has a lil one with aspergers and she got a blue badge recently, but at that time she was still battling to get his statement, so, worht a try, i'd say, you sound to me to be in a situation where you really should be able to get a blue badge due to circumstances, alone.

Mellow, lol...well, I do have a life, well of sorts, but I have had it several times happening to me, that when I actually got a P&T space someone might pull up wiht a carseat in their car but not KId....now, I know the arguments maybe they pick the Kid up, but really how often is that going to be the reason?
So, you think it's o.k. because you are cold to park tehre without having your Kid wiht you, but it is o.k. for some other poor bugger with their Kid in tow, to have to take a further away spot, therefore not just parent getting cold but also lil one...nice....

Locket, I would thing the rage comes in when one is struggling and sees people misuse them...like I said before, I have no problem if the spaces are full but all the people using them actually doing so rightly.

rofl fruitful, that would make me chuckle, too

Tinkerbelle, lol, yeah, or people parking in parent and Tot parking and leaving their Kids in the car, errrm, doh....

not for people that have Kids that are able to safely walk with their parents...!

TBH, I really don't understand why people get pissed off at people for getting pissed off at people that misuse P&T spaces, lol, surely we have a right to get pissed of about somehting like that,lol.

tirnanog Mon 05-Feb-07 19:29:30

He would have been if I could've got a hold of him!

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 19:29:28

Bloody disableds taking all the spaces.

LittleBoSheep Mon 05-Feb-07 19:27:18

Like I say Misdee they obviously dont have a standard policy I cant imagine there are any less disablede people here!

Coppertop. The guy shot into the disable space at great speed, JUMPED out of the car at great speed and RAN into the shop...didnt have a badge...raced round tescos to get a bottle of wine...dunno was he disabled?

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 19:26:32

3andnomore you have the weirdest view of disability I have ever come across.

When I talk about using P and T spots at the supermarket and not needing them I am talking about myself- I only have one disabled child - and I very very rarely take him shopping (and then only if there's another adult and no other kids). I often shop with the other 2 though - including the toddler. So I do know all about managing to shop with young children. I've done it for 7y years after all. I'm stunned some of you find it so difficult. I really couldn't care less whether the P and T spots are full or not.

As for "PARENTS are the main group in store and, as major customers, our needs should be taken into account. "

FGS listen to yourselves. And you reckon you're not princesses.

gingermonkey Mon 05-Feb-07 19:24:14

It wouldn't be an issue at all if spaces were the size they are in the U.S. If I need a bigger space in a mini to get the LO out, then it seems to me the spaces are just too damn small in the first place. I don't even bother going shopping if I am in a bigger car, unless it's at the crack of dawn when there's only the mums from the school run and the office workers buying a salad for their lunch.

lockets Mon 05-Feb-07 19:23:21

My three are 3 , 21 months and 6 months so all 3 need my help to get out. I honestly don't need a p&t space wheras disabled badge holders do need their spaces.

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 19:21:39

' By LittleBoSheep on Mon 05-Feb-07 19:08:19
Oh and 20 of the 30 disabled spaces are empty 99.9% of the time. '


where do you live, can i shop there

can hardly ever get a parking space here at tescos.

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 19:19:29

can i swear yet?

PeachyClair Mon 05-Feb-07 19:19:10

I think its just a mtter of tolerance. I parked in P&T a couple of times when I was pg with ds1- I was supposed to be ebdbound with pre-eclampsia and wanted to walk the most minimal distance I could manage. Nobody seemed to mind that, I guess because it was visual. I get lots of comments with ds1 though (he's 7), thogh I can actually use them 'properly' with ds3 (3.5).



Funnily enough, anyone who sees ds1 in the shop doesn't seem to worry about the space. Is that because he crawlsa round yapping and barking, d'ya think? Is that a clue for them perhaps?


I don't like the 2 seater sports car able bodied briage taking the spaces, as its purely down to a lack of consideration. When its elderly, pg, mums of kids (young and / or multiples of) its not an issue to me. If its BB holder, I would expect them to get priority everytime.


Cant believe we might be able to get a badge! So typical that nobody told us

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 19:18:59

but do you need a p+t space?

FioFio Mon 05-Feb-07 19:18:47

parking for parent and toddlers is a marketing ploy
disabled spaces isnt

coppertop Mon 05-Feb-07 19:17:28

I can't believe people are complaining that there are too many spaces for the disabled. I'm even more that people think it's okay to block cars in a disabled space with a trolley because they have decided that the person isn't disabled enough.

gingermonkey Mon 05-Feb-07 19:13:28

I agree, Bo, in fact you have just said everything I have been ranting about to DH for years!!! And why are there so many disabled spaces and so few parent and baby spaces? I'm presuming it has something do with the percentage of disabled people in the country and having to apply that percentage to available parking spaces thanks to some EU Law, but it really pees me off. I was at the supermarket today and I only have a little car with 2 doors so I need a bit of space to reach in to the back to get the monkey out. I was driving around for ages trying to find a space, whilst perfectly able people trotted off into the supermarket, childless and without any need for parking in either the parent spaces or the disabled spaces.

Oh, and it's not so much easier online because they never have what you have bloody ordered!!!!! Instead of peas they bring you a butternut squash, or something! You need to go to the supermarket after they've delivered just to get the basic ingredients for a meal!!!!

Bobalina Mon 05-Feb-07 19:11:38

I am amazed at this thread. Only recently discovered p&t bays but never use them. I've only recently started driving to the shops. For many years I carried 5 bags of shopping and a baby on the buses to get home. To think that it pisses some of you off that you cannot get into your designated bay because (god forbid) a disabled person has parked there beggars belief.

I do not use p&t bays (with my 3 children) because I feel they are of better use to the elderly and disabled. Wouldn't dream of pulling them up for parking in them.

LittleBoSheep Mon 05-Feb-07 19:08:19

Oh and 20 of the 30 disabled spaces are empty 99.9% of the time.

LittleBoSheep Mon 05-Feb-07 19:03:56

Tesco obviously dont have a standard policy regarding disable spaces because ours has somewhere around 30 all by the front door. My issue with their lack of P & T spaces is during the peak times of the day PARENTS are the main group in store and, as major customers, our needs should be taken into account.

I think those of us who worry about parking in P & T spaces arent princesses but spaces have got smaller and smaller & cars have got larger and larger. I only have an average sized car but when I was parked next to a 4 x 4 and the children were still small it was IMPOSSIBLE to have enough space to get my (by no means enormous) arse into the space BOTH SIDES of the car to get a child out of its seat. Yes I COULD use a "normal" space but, call me old fashioned, I would rather not damage the next cars paintwork whilst getting my child out.

I have to confess when I have seen a someone running into the store from the disabled spaces I have left my trolley horizontally across the back of their car to piss them off when they get back.

Oh yes I COULD go in the evening when the kids are in bed (after my work at home day, school/playgroup runs, after school clubs, cooking tea and doing homework) but why the hell should I. Plus a lot of people dont have anyone to look after their children so dont have the luxury of choice.

onlyjoking Mon 05-Feb-07 19:00:11

i do object to misuse of the P&c and BB spaces, if i am on my own with my 3 kids i cannot hold all the doors at the same time, my 3 have autism and no awareness of the car parked next to us, we just need a wide space that is all, we do have 3 blue badges, i also own a teflon overcoat, this is useful for deflecting the filthy looks when using the disabled parking spaces.

tinkerbellie Mon 05-Feb-07 18:55:15

yes it REALLY annoys me!!

it also really pisses me off when you see someone diasbled aprk in a disabled space whilst their ableboddied friend partner goes into shop whilst they wait in the car

fruitful Mon 05-Feb-07 18:52:34

Can't be bothered to read the whole scrap ...

My local Tescos has a sign by the P&B spaces that reads:

***********************************
Parent & Toddler Parking
It's so much easier to shop online
***********************************

In other words, we want your money but we don't want your screaming brats in the shop; sod off and shop from home. Fantastic. Makes me laugh every time, even when I'm driving past all the spaces filled by the childless.

Can I put notes on their cars that read "Do you want my kids as well as my parking space?". Going free to a good home, especially on the way out of the supermarket!

FioFio Mon 05-Feb-07 18:43:30

yeh lockets but youm luvly

lockets Mon 05-Feb-07 18:39:53

I can honestly say I manage fine in an ordinary space with my three children, it is a bit of a faff but it is possible. If there is a p and t free I use it [if I have all 3 with me] but if not it isn't a biggy. I don't get understand the rage people get if they can't get one tbh.

Muminfife Mon 05-Feb-07 18:33:05

in fife, and around edinburgh, the majority of cars in these spaces seem to be 2-seater sports models.
i tell the supermarket security - my husband accidentally rams them with trolleys - after all, p& c spaces are so wide to allow for your kids grabbing trolleys and making them change direction.

JillybeansNW Mon 05-Feb-07 18:24:26

I have been with son who was bb holder, and I would park in disabled if he was having trouble with mobility and p&t if he was not. I would Never mind someone with bb parking in p&t spots.

btw - I can confirm that you don't need to be getting higher rate to get bb in all circs - we got one when DS2 was on crutches (though I suspect that some of the docs who do the assessments are more impressed with obvious phisical problems (please don't take offence if I have put that very badly - it is not meant in ANY negative way)). And we were getting nothing from DLA

ItsMeMellowma Mon 05-Feb-07 18:08:49

No life, not life...

FioFio Mon 05-Feb-07 18:08:45

I know, to be fair it isnt a steep slope, but its a slope none the less.

ItsMeMellowma Mon 05-Feb-07 18:08:21

3andnomore

The point is....if I am cold I park in the space closest to the store, it is a quiet store as I stay in a village and the point of having a car seat in the back is that if anyone were to drive past and see me in the PT space, how are they going to know I have no child with me? So why would it bother them?

Unless of course they had life....and came looking!

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 18:05:41

fio, thats awful

Emprexia Mon 05-Feb-07 18:00:09

I hate people who park in them when they dont have kids, but i have no objection to bb holders parking in them if all their spaces are taken.

Cloudhopper Mon 05-Feb-07 17:52:16

Fio - that really is something to complain about. It's like some kind of sick joke.

FioFio Mon 05-Feb-07 17:50:55

the thing that irritates me is at our nearest tesco most of the disabled spaces are on a slope ffs, so i can see why people would choose to use a P&T space instead as they are on the flat

PeachyClair Mon 05-Feb-07 17:35:59

Filly no, nobody told me. I have 1 with AS, i with provisional dx ASd, and the HV told me that the combined didn't count towards a blue badge!!!!

Thank you.


How many others I wonder?

calebsmummy Mon 05-Feb-07 17:32:02

I'd never ever use a disabled space either!!!

Fillyjonk Mon 05-Feb-07 17:29:58

peachy-have just skimmed thread

I'm sure you know this, but you don't actually need higher rate mobility to get a blue badge. The council will have a form. A letter from your doctor can help. Its def not unusual for a kid with autism to get a blue badge but no HRM. Sorry if this is bloody obvious and you have known it for 4 1/2 years.

calebsmummy Mon 05-Feb-07 17:28:46

I don't have a problem with blue badge holders using P & T spaces if there are no disabled spaces available. They have a very real need to use the space. In fact if I saw someone with an elderly person using a P & T space it wouldn't offend me either, if they had a need. What I do object to is seeing people using the spaces when they don't have a child, when they have children of say 7 or over, especially when thier children are teenagers and definately when they have a massive car they can't park! Don't buy the car if you can't blinking well park the thing!

I have 3 DS, 13, 4 and 2 and obviously use the spaces when I have the two little ones, but wouldn't dream of it if I only had DS1!!

One woman complained to another about using a space while I was getting back into my car once saying ' You do realise these spaces are for parents and children?' To which the offending woman replied ' Yes I am the parent and she is my child' pointing at a woman of at least 30 I mean ow lazy are some people!!!!

It would be nice to get INTO p&c spaces.. I find that in my local supermarket the disabled spots far exceed the p&c ones... for example in the town one here there are 8 p&c and over twice that in disabled slots. It would be nice to address the balance as both are needed equally..

(btw can anyone tell me how to get a disabled badge for my SN dd???)

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 17:24:48

exactly. and if anyone challenged me and dh i would probbaly either hand them a donor leaflet, but if i am stressed to high heavens like today, well, i cant really say what i would do tbh.

2shoes Mon 05-Feb-07 17:23:37

Befor I had the van I would park WEREVER it was easiest to get dd out of the car. if no db's then a p&T space. (and would do the same if I had my disabled MIL with me.

Fair enough, Misdee. Your individual circumstances.

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 17:20:08

pc unless i can find a end space for dh then we cant park in the nearest place he can walk from. individual circumstances like you say. so if no bb spaces then we go to pt if they are free. EVEN if we dont have a child with us (very unlikely as usually have dd3 clamped to my hip, limpet child)

2shoes Mon 05-Feb-07 17:19:43

omg word fail me

OrmIrian Mon 05-Feb-07 17:18:49

Don't care in the slightest. Never will and never did. Sorry.

However I have often thought that pinktulips suggestion is sensible - no-one would bother with them if they were on the far side of the car park.

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 17:18:37

thats because bb holders need the spaces, and well, most people know how i feel about pt spaces. most of the time i avoid them like the plague. in town i drive to the top of the multi story as its a lot easier than dodging people with prams o nthe lower levels.

No, I did mean exactly what I said. Granted it's a bit of a sweeping statment, but then so is lumping every bb holder as being entitled to use the p&t spaces.

Only the individuals themselves can decide exactly whether they can manage without the concession. So we may have opinions, but c an't really define exactly who and in what circumstances a person can and cannot use the concesion space, we can only generalise.

My mum is a bb holder because she has great difficulty in walking any distance, but the only way I would consider it acceptable for her to use a p&t place would be if all teh bb places were full and she was bursting to the loo. Otherwise I'd say either wait for a free place, or park at the nearest spot you can manage to walk from.

p&t places would be much less abused if they weren't so near the shop, but slightly further away yet with a safe route to the shop and near a well-stocked trolley park.

Jenski Mon 05-Feb-07 17:16:21

I think Prettycandes is referring to the fact that there are allocated spaces for bbs and p&t, and that this is for a reason. Usually alot more bb spaces than p&ts in most places.

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 17:11:21

no i dont think you did 2shoes.

2shoes Mon 05-Feb-07 17:10:25

PrettyCandles did you realy mean to type this or was it a mistake. "But not people with an empty carseat in the back! Nor, IMO, blue badge holders"
I am sure you didn't meant to in clude blu badges in your sentance
If you did. I think you should realise that getting a disabled adult or child in and out of a car is a LOT harder than getting a small child or baby out of a car.
I hope I misread your post.

Jenski Mon 05-Feb-07 17:05:59

Don't be so ridiculous - if you have a bb and a child then use whichever space you want!!!

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 17:03:44

this will pee some of you off. the other day we used as p+t space as it was closer to the doors. we did have a child with us, but we also have a blue badge. oh dear oh dear. should we have left the space for someone else

misdee Mon 05-Feb-07 17:02:53

By squonk on Mon 05-Feb-07 15:17:01
how about disabled people using the parent & child space because there aren't any disabled ones left? That gets to me, because we wouldn't use their space!!



i should bt on this bloody thread should i

Ally24 Mon 05-Feb-07 17:00:56

i often have to walk across car parks with my increasingly heavy baby when lots of the parking bays are filled with two seater sports cars with no sign of a childs seat, normally middle aged men who think an expensive car gives them priority.

Jenski Mon 05-Feb-07 16:59:11

Let's be honest here - the basic problem is the few numbers of p & t spaces. I have to say that 99% of the time when I go shopping there are always available bb spaces but I would never use them, and therefore I wouldn't expect a bb car user to use a p&t space because this is rarely necessary from what I can see...

PeachyClair Mon 05-Feb-07 16:53:47

You have to get mobility to get a badge, DS1 gets highest rate care but not mobility (TBH too exhausted at the time to appeal), he wouldn't get higher care if he didnt um, need care, DLA is not easy to get! I also have 2 small children just under the blue badge criteria (plus another NT one who still needs the noramal supervision for a 6 year old)- unfortunately you can't add the stress levels together, but no P&T = well, frankly I don't go out any more, not if I can help it, certainly not without a second adult.

I don't however EVER use a P&T space when not with the kids, but mums with babies do give me The Look. Dh goes over and gives our life story heh heh heh

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 16:52:10

peachy my next sentence was, btw:
"not for people that have Kids that are able to safely walk with their parents...!"

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 16:49:55

Hm, but if your child has a disability, you would be likely to have a blue badge, would you not? So, usually you probably wouldn't be parking at parent tot carpark, unless absi;lutely necessary?
Anyway, I never said it has ot be an obvious disability, did I? But, often you probably would notice something amiss if there was somehting amiss....and, if your child needs assistence above that age , then your child would probably hold your hand, etc...rather then being allowed to walk freely all by themselfs from the carpark, ofrinstance...an example...couple with a about 8 year old child, might have been older actually, used a p&t space, and it wasn't a near by the door kind at all, but they did not have any sepcial seats or anything where they needed more space to get the child in and out...and that did not impress me much, when I was struggling with a 5 month old and lifely 26 month old, trying to get them out of carseats,etc...!

People who are allowed to use P&C parking places: anyone who needs to open the door wide in order to extract their infant. That includes pregnant women with big bumps and older children who still need help with their carseat/seatbelt. But not people with an empty carseat in the back! Nor, IMO, blue badge holders. There are always far more blue badge places than p&t places, and I don't see why bb people shouldn't wait for a free space, just as p&ts can wait if they choose.

Cloudhopper Mon 05-Feb-07 16:47:39

It's just life really. People are selfish. I remember in the days before militant parking wardens on every corner, people would happily park blocking the road, causing massive tailbacks everywhere.

IMO you can't compare disabled spaces to P&T at all. I would actively encourage an old/disabled person who couldn't find a space to use the P&T bays if it helped them. And when I was pregnant with SPD I could hardly walk and remember hobbling to the shop and being unable to get dd1 out of a car.

PeachyClair Mon 05-Feb-07 16:44:57

'Squonk, yes it annoys em when people without Kids or with Kids that are say 4+ and have no special needs use those places'

Eer, you.

Seriously. My DS's disability is invisible- doesn't mean it doesn't exist. How can you jusdge if some needs the space on that criteria?

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 16:35:30

Peachy?????you lost me.....who were you asking?

PeachyClair Mon 05-Feb-07 16:31:56

Er how do you tell if a kid over 4 has special needs? And if you have that ability please could you come and assess my youngest as opinions seem to vary.


<<peachy grabs a hard hat and runs fpr cover>>>

Pinotmum Mon 05-Feb-07 16:29:14

The Tesco badge for p&t spaces expires on the childs 5th birthday so a parent with a child of 4 yo is OK. Sainsbury afaik don't offer a badge but some of their staff park in them so how can they expect their customers to show consideration to people with children. At the end of the day they just want your cash!!

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 16:25:26

Shosha, wouldn't really work though, what with the Babycarriers often taken into the shop!

3andnomore Mon 05-Feb-07 16:19:40

Squonk, yes it annoys em when people without Kids or with Kids that are say 4+ and have no special needs use those places, they are for mums with younger Kids, possible Carseat or Prams etc...not for people that have Kids that are able to safely walk with their parents...!
However, I would be happy to give a parent/Baby space up for a disabled person IF there wasn't any disabled spaces.

Dungbeetle, a to big car for ordinary spaces is NO reason to take up Parent?Baby spaces, often a bit further away are plenty of spaces left, so, why not choose one of those and walk that bit extra.

Pinktulips, how near a Parent space should be does depend a bit on yoru situation though, I know that when my ys was a lil Baby and my ms was under 2/just 2, it really helped when the spaces were also near the entrance, as it wasn't nice to trawdle over a carpark with lil ones. Especially if there wasn't any Baby/Toddler trolleys in tthe near by trolleypark (as it often seems to be teh case, sigh)

madmarchhare, it might not be a big deal to you, but for others it can be a big deal as an otherwise already horrific shoppingtrip with Kids in tow is made that lil bit more difficult I never really minded when I had only 2 Kids, as there was 6 1/2 years between them 2, so, it wasn't a problem , BUT when ys appeared there was only 21 month between ms and ys, and if I couldn't get a parent space it really was difficult, put on top of that that we lived in NI for a few month then, and what wiht safety issues etc...I didn't feel it was safe to leave my Kids in the car just to get a trolley.
Alos, why should someone, who is allowed in teh space wait because some lazy arsed tosser can't be bothered to park a bit further away, are they more precious or what, those businessmen?

errr Jimjams...going shopping wihtout Kids is NOT always an option, my dh is int eh army, therefore not always around, and in Holidays, when would I go shopping then?
Also, I don't think it's fair to say, well, as long as people leave my disabled spaces free I don't care...I don't have a need (thank god) for Disabled spaces, but I would care if I saw someone parking, without a badge in there, because they are lazy twats, why not return that curtesy? I can understand you being angry at the mentioning that people who are disabled shouldn't use P&T spaces, and rightly so, BUT being as careless back doesn't make that right, does it...

Mellowma...that so annoys me, when people park in parentspaces without Kids, but because they have a carseat in the car....wtf has that got to do with anyhting?
Although, in the evening when they virtually emptly, I really don't care about it, and have done it myself, but that is slightly different.

madmarchhare Mon 05-Feb-07 16:13:02

'traffic wardens should be able to fine people without car seats in there car'

Really?

Shosha Mon 05-Feb-07 16:10:36

Message withdrawn

Jenski Mon 05-Feb-07 16:08:26

Great thread though.

mosschops30 Mon 05-Feb-07 16:05:36

dont talk about this subject anymore after severe slagging I have got about it in the past!!!!!

<ducks and whispers> god it really pisses me off though

PinkTulips Mon 05-Feb-07 15:57:51

have never actually used a p&t space as dp is a 'park as far from the entrance as physically possible while still being in the car park' type of driver but do feel sorry for moms with kids in car seats struggling to manipulate them out of a 4 inch gap between them and another car.

Jenski Mon 05-Feb-07 15:57:10

Definition......

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:56:35

Yep- have 5 mins peace before ds1's therapist arrives. So shoot me. What teribly important thing should I be doing?

JillybeansNW Mon 05-Feb-07 15:55:54

My my - there were only 3 posts when I started typing mine - go to settle crying baby, come back, post, and find that I have missed a load!

ItsMeMellowma Mon 05-Feb-07 15:55:23

Yes life definately too short to get so over-stressed about such trivial things!!

I leave my worry and stress for the biggies in life...and unfortunately seem to have had a few of them!

skibump Mon 05-Feb-07 15:54:51

Not worried JJ, just idley wondering what people thought while I wait for ds to wake up. This is my switch off time, not my get wound up time

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:54:50

oh oh look at me I have children, the world must revolve around me and my children. I must have a space, I have a right to a space, how dare a disable dperson have a space when I have children.

Stop caring about them. Use them if they're free, park somewhere else if they're not. And if you seriously can;t get a child out of a car unless you have a massive space, buy a bloody mini. Above all get a grip.

Jenski Mon 05-Feb-07 15:54:14

Bigger things to worry about than sitting in front of a computer

ItsMeMellowma Mon 05-Feb-07 15:54:08

I used to be a very nervous driver so parked away from everyone else, which at my local store happens to be PT spaces, or the loading bay!!

fryalot Mon 05-Feb-07 15:52:54

fwiw - I would never beep a school bus (unless it was to wave to the driver, which I confess I have done)

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:52:45

Isn't life too short to worry skibump? Generations of mothers survived without P and T spaces. God knows when we all became such princesses.

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:51:51

bloody hell you haven't upset me. I really do have bigger things to worry about. People beeping the school bus don't upset me. I just think they're idiots.

I have 3 children, 2 who are disabled, and yes I have used the P&B spaces when there are no disbled bays, DS can barely walk now, and is very unstable on his feet so yes I use them, especially in Tesco, where the P&T spaces are closer to the store than the disabled bays. Hell, I have even used the 'expectant mums' bays in Asda.

skibump Mon 05-Feb-07 15:51:30

So is it ok for disabled driver to park in P&T spaces when there are free disabled ones???
Maybe the supermarket should swap them round so the P&T were the ones further away!

madmarchhare Mon 05-Feb-07 15:51:00

Ah, someone to join me itsmemellowma.

JillybeansNW Mon 05-Feb-07 15:50:10

Ohhhh don't get me started. My dad is a disabled driver (he is an above the leg amputee, though not for the reasons on MissGolightly's post ) and he tends to challenge people who park in D spaces. My son also has a blue badge for when he is on crutches (we never use it when he is mobile [smug emoticon]). People without blue badges parking in disabled spaces is generally considered unaccptable now.
People do seem to think it is OK to nick P&T spaces. I was told about a woman (who probably comes on here) who doesn't challenge people who park in P&T places, instead she rushes up to them on their way to or from the car and says "OMG, you must go back, you've left your child in the store/car (depending on which direction they are going in)". I now do this
Also, one of the guys who works in the same building as me was explaining to a group that he parks in P&T because it prevents his car getting scratched in the smaller spaces. He seemed quite surprised when I called him a selfish B****

fryalot Mon 05-Feb-07 15:49:26

jimjams - I am truly sorry I upset you.

IntergalacticWalrus Mon 05-Feb-07 15:49:20

Actually, I think we are very lucky that they exist at all. On the occasions I take the boys to the supermarket, I look for a p&t space, but if they are all gone, hey ho.

Life's too short to iron socks and worry about parking spaces, imho

ItsMeMellowma Mon 05-Feb-07 15:48:23

Oh yes...its always after say half 6ish - when its cold.

The disabled ones are right out front so I would not park there but the PT ones are at the side of the store, so I do it sometimes...not ALL the time...

margo1974 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:47:23

But I must admit that before children, I would park in M&B spaces (only when it was after 8 in the evening and the car park was fairly empty.)

You certainly see things from a different perspective once you have kids and now I understand WHY mums need the extra space

lulumama Mon 05-Feb-07 15:47:07

<<runs in after school run.....any popcorn left? i brought my own hard hat ! >>

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:46:21

yep 7 seater Fio. The seats just pop up. Very safe cars (think all Renaults are). The b ack seat isn't really any good for anything other than a booster seat though.

tirnanog Mon 05-Feb-07 15:46:08

It is just basic good manners and shows consideration when you leave P&T and Disabled spaces for those people who genuinely need them.

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:45:22

Mellow- I wouldn't care. As long as you weren't taking a disabled space when we needed it I wouldn't give a stufff. And yep if its after what I call bedtime (7pmish say_) then I park in P and T spots.

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:44:04

Well yes, after we've all walked on water whilst watching the flying pigs we may no longer need mobility! Oh that's OK then. I'll start car shopping!

So do the people who get irritated by disabled people parking in P and T spots, get irritated by special school buses stopping to pick up disabled children. Because the idiots that beep at ds1's bus dont irritate, they piss me off beyond belief (and I make sure I take longer to get him on the bus) Idiots.

speedymama Mon 05-Feb-07 15:43:35

I gave up on trying to get M&T spaces when my DTS were about 8mo. So many times I have seen healthy child free drivers park in these spaces because they are too lazy to park elsewhere. Meanwhile, I had to struggle getting 2 babies in and out of a car when there were cars on either side.

Now, I shop when the boys are at nursery or if they are with me, I take the pram and walk and just get a basket full.

DUNGBEETLE Mon 05-Feb-07 15:42:40

What about using a P&T space at nightime? Last night I was in London SOHO car park -not supermarket and there was a P&T space I was very tempted to park in it but I didn't but it was very tempting because imo people shouldn't be out with their little children in soho at nightime.

ItsMeMellowma Mon 05-Feb-07 15:42:02

Okay so shoot me butI do this regularly at my local supermaket... I would never use a disabled space but I have a baby car seat in my car so, hey why not!!

<<<<mellow runs for cover>>>>

FioFio Mon 05-Feb-07 15:41:18

they normally just sort you out a car until the end of term. I think aswell if you explain to the dealer that your situation is unlikely to change () then they take that on board aswell

is it a 7 seater scenic you have?

I wanted a berlingo but dh has refused point blank i hate him

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:41:18

It doesn't offend, but you might find that if you or your kids ever develop a disability (can happen to anyone- no-one is immune) you're considerably more irriated when you can't shop full stop because there's no suitable space for you. You may find that your disabled child is more than irriated and tries to put their head through the window because you're not doing what your meant to do (ie park and get out). Who knows you may develop a different attitude to life and get irritated by important things.

madmarchhare Mon 05-Feb-07 15:38:57

Ah well, if hes just sprinting in and out, you can wait.

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:38:35

I like it Fio- although we have to have ds1 in the back and he's getting a bit big. I have no idea what to get next (runs out in August), don't really want a HUGE car- grande is quite big enough, but can't have ds1 sat near to ds2 and ds3 and he pinches them and hits them if he's in one of his moods. Thought about the multipla, but he'd be pulling the handbrake on or fiddling with buttons when we're driving around.

No idea how we get another one though as there's only 2 years left on motability, I keep meaning to ring and ask, but can;t cope with the dla "helpline"

munz Mon 05-Feb-07 15:37:38

bisness men are just a law unto them selves i find

MissGolightly Mon 05-Feb-07 15:35:56

Munz, I just wanted to make it clear when I said I was irritated with people who were patently not disabled using the disabled spaces, of course if someone has a badge I would NEVER dispute their right to use a space. What I meant was bloody businessmen without a badge sprinting in and out to get fags.

fryalot Mon 05-Feb-07 15:35:54

jimjams - didn't mean to cause offence. I am aware that other people need the space more than me. Of course I would never object to a disabled person using a p & c space. In fact, if put in that position, I would gladly give up my p & c space for someone who clearly needs it more... I would just be quietly irritated to myself. Sorry if this offends.

PinkTulips Mon 05-Feb-07 15:35:52

or bring dh with you to sit in the car with the kids at far end of the car park while you leg it to get a trolly.... works well enough for us

FioFio Mon 05-Feb-07 15:35:45

how do you find your grand scenic jimjams? (I have looked at one and cant decide, its that the c4 picasso or the vw touran, all cheapest diesels on motability)

munz Mon 05-Feb-07 15:35:40

well quite i mean ffs.

maybe we should all park over 2 spaces when the 4x4's use P&T with no children??

PinkTulips Mon 05-Feb-07 15:34:35

* just to clarify i no longer think that was supposed to be sarcastic (wish it had been coz it's pretty ignorant)

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:34:02

don't worry PT I misread all the time!

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:33:29

I do think that anyone who really can't cope with shopping with children unless they park in a P and T space (why would you wait for one to get free - park somewhere else fgs - and yes I have 3 children and grande scenic I know all about getting babies out of oversized cars) should go without children, after they're in bed. There problem solved.

munz Mon 05-Feb-07 15:33:11

PT - I read it as a seriosu comment, and as I say you can't judge with the disabled folks - if they have a badge tehn obv they're entitled to the spot - just cos you cna't see the disablity doesn't mean they're not iycwim.

perhaps the coiuncils/super markets could adpot a P&T badge or soemthing?

PinkTulips Mon 05-Feb-07 15:32:25

sorry jimjams... have ds trying to help me compute and i skim read that bit

lazyline Mon 05-Feb-07 15:32:02

DUNGBEETLE: I think that when your child is old enough to get themselves in the car and strapped in, you don't need a special parking space anymore. IMO.

Jenski Mon 05-Feb-07 15:31:58

This is a big rant....

One time i couldn't get a baby space so I parked in a normal space. I sprint to get the right type of trolley, locking my newborn and 18month old in car. I came back and put 18 month old in car first. I put trolley next to car with the brake on and go to get baby from the car, turning back to find that dd1 is rolling away in the trolley. Luckily a friendly passing chap catches trolley and stops it going any further. Then another friendly person comes over and holds the trolley for me whilst I put dd2 in!

After shopping we come back and I am now clued up to trolley's inefficient brake and we ask supermarket car park man to hold the trolley whilst I put babies in car. He assists with a smile and continues on his merry way.

BUT where does he go? Because in the time it takes me to start my engine, 2 vehicles with no babies in them park in two available baby spaces! I manage to collar one lady who has parked her landrover discovery and she tells me "Oh, I'm allowed to park here because I drive a larger vehicle!" What because you don't know how to park your fuel guzzling planet killer more like!!! AHH!

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:31:35

Really, what the 15.17 one, and the 15.22 one. Squonk is aware she's being unfair in her irriatation. I'm aware that I'm being quite fair. Talk about not knowing you're bloody born.

madmarchhare Mon 05-Feb-07 15:31:31

Oh here goes nothing, Ive used a P&T space without having DS in the car.

Shoot me now.

Sorry, but I dont think its really that big a deal.

PinkTulips Mon 05-Feb-07 15:31:30

o hang on.... that was me being thick wasn't it?

no definitely don't agree with that statement squonk.... however awkward it might be with kids, disabled people need the space more every time

2shoes Mon 05-Feb-07 15:30:37

VERY well said jimjams

PinkTulips Mon 05-Feb-07 15:29:56

jimjams.... i don't think anyone minds disabled driver using them... i think that comment was supposed to be sarcastic. or maybe i read it wrong?

FioFio Mon 05-Feb-07 15:28:56

well squonk, I do too. They are a pain and they tend to park in disabled spaces too because they are ever so full of their own self importance

Jimjams2 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:28:48

I find people who are irritated by disabled people using P and T spaces remarkably irritating and incredibly self centred, and just a teensy weensy little bit sad.

skibump Mon 05-Feb-07 15:28:40

Yep, along with everyone else

I asked a woman who had parked next to me if she realised it was P&B, she said she was going to collect a child - but her car was already full of other people - duh! If she was enough to try to excuse it then why did she do it in the first place?

Personally I wouldn't mind if the spaces weren't right outside the door - as long as they were big enough to get a baby in a car seat in & out, I don't mind walking!

fryalot Mon 05-Feb-07 15:28:36

PinkTulips Mon 05-Feb-07 15:28:09

on a related topic... i almost had a fit when i saw a man in aldi with the one and only baby trolly with no baby and i was struggling with my month old ds, 18 mohth old dd and a trolly

fryalot Mon 05-Feb-07 15:27:59

my real problem, fio, is with business-men types who park there because it's easy.

MissGolightly Mon 05-Feb-07 15:27:10

No, I don't mind disabled people using P&C spaces.

Don't get me started on what happens if their car is too big for regular sized spaces! My hatred of 4x4s is only exceeded by my hatred of plug-in airfreshners. If it were up to me their car would be crushed until it DID fit into a regular sized space.

(Although I do live in London, I don't mind 4x4s in the country.)

fryalot Mon 05-Feb-07 15:27:05

well, mellow.... my dp has banned me from approaching people and following them round the supermarket telling everyone that they took the last parent and child space when they don't have any children etc. when I have the dcs with me as he worries about car park rage; and it seems somewhat pointless when I don't have them with me.

FioFio Mon 05-Feb-07 15:26:18

disabled badges are given to people with severe learning difficulties aswell, please bear this in mind, and <shock horror> children

but my my, I have a wonderful coat of thick skin these days

ItsMeMellowma Mon 05-Feb-07 15:25:45

Do you approach people when they do this squonk?

fryalot Mon 05-Feb-07 15:25:44

that's very true. I don't care how far I have to walk - although it's helpful if the trolleys are near the car parking space - I just need the space, like you say.

tirnanog Mon 05-Feb-07 15:25:40

the disabled person is probably parking in parent and toddler space because someone is parked in disabled bay!!!

PinkTulips Mon 05-Feb-07 15:24:50

they should stop putting them right by the doors and people wouldn't steal them.... we just need the extra space to get kids out, not to be 5 feetfrom the entrance

fryalot Mon 05-Feb-07 15:24:10

thank you fio, I worry for me too

munz Mon 05-Feb-07 15:24:04

and yes I don't have anything against disabled folks using P&T spaces either - also bewear with the disabled ones, I remember vividly a lady had a go at my aunty for parking in a disabled space - (she was fully abled znd looked fine, just had a terminal cnacer - anyhow) the lady went mad so my aunty stood her ground and had a go back - so wheree the disabled spaces are concerned it's easy to judge cos they might not look like they need the space but infact they're entitled to it - does that make sence?

fryalot Mon 05-Feb-07 15:23:49

Dungbeetle - if you are collecting a child, you still need the space. (and accept my apologies for looks given as you get out of the car with no kids)

FioFio Mon 05-Feb-07 15:23:17

I worry for dear squonk

fryalot Mon 05-Feb-07 15:22:38

I know what you mean pinotmum, but it still irritates me. I am aware that I am being unfair in my irritation, but.... can't help it.

munz Mon 05-Feb-07 15:22:15

we had a bloke selling holly in our P&T b4 xmas - I fewlt like saying does this look like a f'ing cash and carry it also annoys me when people park there cos they have a bigger car no kids but have a van so lets park there.

shosha's the one to watch! lol. apparently she shouts at them!

DUNGBEETLE Mon 05-Feb-07 15:20:57

What about if their car is too big for regular sized spaces? What age should you stop using them then? What if they are collecting a baby or toddler from a friend at the shops?

Pinotmum Mon 05-Feb-07 15:20:34

Squonk I wouldn't mind a disabled person using the P&T spaces at all. I thank god I don't need a disabled space in the first place. Having a child when going food shopping isn't the same as being disabled all the time imo .

ItsMeMellowma Mon 05-Feb-07 15:20:19

has this kicked off yet?

lazyline Mon 05-Feb-07 15:20:14

I know someone who used to post-it non-disable dusers of disabled spaces. They said "Do you want my disability as well as my parking space?".

On the other side, I told an old couple off for parking in a parent and child space. They were most polite and said that they couldn't find the disabled spaces. They did move!

margo1974 Mon 05-Feb-07 15:19:03

i wrote to a magazine and to local shopping centre to complain about m&b spaces.

if they made spaces bigger then you wou;ldn't have to have designated spaces

i had to shout after a man today as he didn't leave enough space for me to put dd1 in the car

PinkTulips Mon 05-Feb-07 15:19:02

went to pick up a form from the medical centre last week and there was a bleedin cop car in the p&t space

there were plenty of other spaces but they just had to be right by the door.... they weren't going inside! were there for a parking violation ffs!

Fillyjonk Mon 05-Feb-07 15:17:28

lol

popcorn-check

hard hat-check

fryalot Mon 05-Feb-07 15:17:01

how about disabled people using the parent & child space because there aren't any disabled ones left? That gets to me, because we wouldn't use their space!!

MissGolightly Mon 05-Feb-07 15:15:59

NO YOU ARE NOT BEING UNREASONABLE!

Phew, sorry for shout, I have been longing to get that off my chest. I also get furious at the bloody businessmen blocking up the spaces. They evidently think that they are far more busy/important than us lazy mothers, who apparently have nothing better to do all day than trek miles across the carpark in the rain with our babies.

I also think that people who use the disabled spaces when they are patently not disabled ought to have a leg chopped off. Ok, that's a little harsh. Perhaps they should just be made to wear orthopedic shoes or something.

fryalot Mon 05-Feb-07 15:11:54

Or am I the only who gets fed up of waiting for a space because they are all filled with lazy b***ds who can't be bothered to walk an extra yard?

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