To think my bloody mother should JUST STOP

[MadHattersWineParty]

This is SO outing but I'm bloody wound up and can't be arsed to name change and I don't bloody care.

Background. My little brother got a job in London recently. He's only young, just out of his teens, first time away from home, low salary initially (less than £15,000) like an internship but paid in an industry lots of young people want to get into. A friend of a friend of mine got him an interview.

He's my mum's last 'baby' as she calls it, my other brother and I are long gone. Other brother lived locally to her but is married and has a baby. (In fact I got out as soon as I could but that's another story)

We grew up on a very small town in a rural county and my mum has lived their all her life, after divorcing my dad is now with someone who has also lived there all their lives ( not judgement; context)

Little brother is now living with my partner and I in our tiny flat. He sleeps on the sofa that pulls out into a bed, you have to walk through the living area to get to the front door and kitchen, the only bathroom is an en suite so if he's at work early he has to come through our bed room to shower etc. I love having him around again but clearly it is a temporary solution. He's quite clueless with housework, needs help to change a duvet, put a wash on etc- trying to teach him as clearly my mother hadn't bothered.

Mum encouraged him taking the job, big boasts on Facebook etc etc. I said he could stay with us and start looking for places to live (houses-shares) she said she'd help him out with the deposit had my dad said he'd chip in too. So we were thinking he could start looking for somewhere straight away- but he's need the help- most places you need deposit and first months debt upfront obviously. My brother has enough money for tube travel while he's here until first paycheck but no more. So we're feeding him. I was happy to do that until mum said she actually had no money at all and couldn't help him so he'd have to just stay with us until whenever. He was already on the bus down at that point. Prior to this she'd been inundating me with houses he could live in, saying she'd help him out financially, then she found this 'co living' type place which is like a posh student halls for young professionals with a gym etc. Great, but it's a £1000 a month- ridiculous. Brother doesn't earn enough to qualify unless she's his guarantor, which surely can't happen. (He doesn't earn enough anyway to live on with that ludicrous rent but she's made whimsy flimsy noises about 'helping'.) She doesn't work, apart from the odd shift when she feels like it- this is not because she's well off, but because she fell out with her colleagues, took a year out funded by money from a house sale, dicked around doing lots of mini breaks and not a lot else and realised she didn't like working that much, and didn't go back. She works 8 hours a week. No (real) health problems. She's 53. Nothing to retire on. Her partner works all hours to support everything. My mum has taken out numerous loans and credit cards to appear wealthy to her friends and on Facebook- it's all smoke and mirrors.

So my brother is here, three and a half weeks in, job going really well, she's dripping bullshit in his ear about how he won't be happy in a house share, telling him these horror stories she's read online, so he should go into this living place. It's madness He won't be able to pay the rent, be isolated from any kind of social life as will have zero funds, and he'll have to move back home- call me cynical but I think that's what she's angling for.

She was also meant to contribute some food money to us- hasn't happened. My Dad has given us his share. We have outgoings and high rent and are feeling the squeeze. My brother being there isn't harming our relationship exactly, we all get on well, they bond a lot over the PlayStation etc, but Christ I miss just relaxing in peace and talking about the day with eachother just us. Not DTD much because I'm concious of my little brother sleeping just behind the door! No opportunity to have private conversations, just be silly with eachother, argue if we need to, you get the gist!

My mum's sole 'contribution' so far has been to send us a salami she got on holiday and a jar of pickle after saying she was going to send us 'some goodies'.

Anyway my mum and I have history- we have never got on- she has chipped and chipped away at me all my life and it sounds awful but I DREAM of going NC. There's history of what I think is munchausan by proxy, fabricated illness.... But that's only with me- shes totally different with my brothers, and part of that is because they 'behave' themselves by doing what she wants/holding her up as head matriarch.

So tell me to get a grip or I'm over thinking it but I cannot help but feel she's a) trying to put strain on my relationship by allowing this to happen in the first place without the financial support she promised

b) trying to sabotage my brother's long term future here by setting him up to tank it financially and have to come back home.

Caught between a rock and a hard place as he hates going against what she wants, and won't hear a bad word said against her. He can't see her manipulation.

Added to this, I've lived in London for five years. I KNOW it's daunting getting into a 'good' house share, making friends, working out your budget, sometimes eating toast until payday- for me these things were part of my early days here- WHY does she think she knows better?!!

Sorry if it's long/boring..,, I needed to vent. And it's too early for a glass of wine

[MadHattersWineParty]

Sorry for the typos

[neonrainbow]

What exactly is your brother doing to help here? Maybe if everyone stopped treating him like a baby who needs to be looked after he might help to resolve some of these issues.

[MadHattersWineParty]

You're right . He's quite sensitive. He hasn't been paid yet so can't really help a lot. He's definitely 'young' for his age. Hoping this helps him grow up a bit. If she would just stop meddling.

[HereIAm20]

I think you are going to have to tell your brother that he needs to find somewhere else. Possibly ask at work if there is anyone who has a room to rent out etc. When he gets his paycheck you must definitely let him know that he has to pay you a least a third of his take home as his keep.

[easterholidays]

I'm sorry you're going through that, and a little jealous that you, your partner and your brother all like each other enough not to have already gone crazy under those circumstances!

What does your brother think? Is he actively making any move towards moving out? Whilst I fully appreciate that your mother is being a nightmare about it all, it really isn't her decision. If he's adult enough to have a job he's adult enough to decide where to live and how he's going to manage his finances. Can you have a discussion with him about it that doesn't focus on the - entirely irrelevant - issue of what your mother does or doesn't want?

[AdaLovelacesCat]

There are lots and lots of FB groups for houseshares.....your brother needs to start looking around for himself.

[easterholidays]

Ah we've all said the same thing, I just said it slower

[Gazelda]

I'm afraid I agree with neonrainbow, he needs to start making choices and decisions for himself.

Have an adult conversation with him, telling him you'll help him find somewhere to stay if he wishes. But the rest needs to be up to him. If he ends up going back to mum's, then that's his choice. He might do so but then realise he was happier living as An independent 'in the big smoke' and have another go at living and working city centre.

Let him learn how to stand on his feet, but make sure he knows you're confident he can be independent.

[KungFuPandaWorksOut]

Your mum has put you in a difficult situation because
A - you take rent off him on his low income = bitch
B - you make him buy his own groceries, his own washing etc = bitch
C - kick him out/insist on house share = bitch

Sort of turn the tables on your mum, ask your brother has mum sent that money up yet that she said she will because dad has. Other than that it will be putting up with him until he's scraped together enough money for a deposit and months rent which by the sounds of it will take a very long time!

[MadHattersWineParty]

Yes but the trouble is if we ask for a third, he won't have enough to actually move- he should get approx £1100, (he's done a few hours overtime) a sensible house share budget around here (good links to his work, nice/affordable area) would cost £500 a month approx- and he'd need the same for the deposit. (This was the amount my mum said she'd be giving him when he took the job then didn't) My Dad is then intending to give him enough money to live on until his second paycheck rolls in. The problem is her pushing him into something he will not be able to afford, but she's really selling it to him. The gym, the 'young professional' vibe, you're own space etc etc.

When in reality most of us start out in a slightly shabby house share until you can afford more. But that won't do for him, apparently.

[easterholidays]

I would also, going by what you've said about your relationship with your mother, be wondering whether her intention is not so much to sabotage your brother's career as to try to regain some control over you, when you've clearly done really well to escape her influence and demonstrated that you have no need of her. She may feel (knowingly or not) that by engineering a situation where you've no choice but to be involved is a way of re-exerting some sort of power over you. In which case, you and your brother sorting the situation out without her help or involvement will dash the attempt.

If you can have a dispassionate, fact-based conversation with him about what he can and can't afford, and help him to look at some of the other options, do you think he'd listen?

[MadHattersWineParty]

It just feels unfair that she's put us all in this situation. I want our flat back! I'm sick of meal planning for an extra person! Everything is sold on packs of two! But don't want to push him into living somewhere he won't be happy with. So we're all feeling the pressure- apart from her of course.

We've been on Spare room, there's lots of places- whether he's been proactive about messaging anyone, I don't know.

[leopardgecko]

I hope it works out for you, OP and for your brother. Your mother sounds a nightmare.

However, on a more general point, I have noticed recently on here that young adults appear to be treated as much younger teenagers. Your brother is, I assume, in his early 20s, and yet from your description of how he is treated (by your mother and maybe others also) as if he is much, much younger. There was also a recent post saying that 23 was too young to have a child. Is 21 the new 12?

Like many others when I was 20, I was married, had a job and a mortgage, just an independent adult really - as were my friends. Yes, my parents helped us in numerous ways, but financially we were independent (even though on a low wage we learnt to budget, mortgage first and like you say OP toast until payday). My daughter, aged 21, has a partner, a baby, a full time job and a mortgage too - and like my parents we help them too and luckily see her every day, but financially they are responsible for themselves. Amongst her peers this is unusual, I think all of her friends still live at home. Sorry to divert from the original post but it has bothered me lately, that what I consider adults are still often treated as teenagers. Is it just me?

[JessieMcJessie]

You haven't said anything about what your brother thinks. He's old enough to have the job (and sounds like he did well to get this one) so presumably old enough to have an opinion and a sense of what his salary can fund. Does he share any of your scepticism about your Mum's opinions and motives?Does he have any sensitivity to (a) the extent to which he is inhibiting your life as a couple and (b) the amount he is costing you in food?

You are clearly being a fab sister and it sounds great that you are helping him cut the apron strings and teaching him to fend for himself. There must be houseshare websites out there- can you help him by going through them with him and perhaps accompanying him on viewings?

You said you think your Mum has the ulterior motive if wanting him to move home. Is the job commutable from her home or do you mean she wants him to give it up?

[leopardgecko]

Maybe I am out of touch with London prices (although lived there the first 20 years of my life) but isn't £1,100 enough to be able to rent a room somewhere and survive? Our household income is approx the same (we are foster carers) and there are 7 of us (5 adults, 2 children) and we manage somehow, although granted not in London.

[RedSauceAndJellyJuice]

This isn't your problem
You agreed with certain conditions for it to be temporary
Your mother has cocked the arrangement up , sat back to let you and your partner pick up the slack
Tell her and your brother they have until (whatever date ) to sort out his accomodation

[KindDogsTail]

Your brother's situation is extremely difficult. These internships that do not cover the cost of living and then pay a month too late, make them next to impossible for anyone who does not have rich parents funding them, or relatives or friends helping as you are.

You have been extremely kind and what you are doing is going to help your brother for the rest of his life, if everything takes off for him. What a nice sister you have been, and your partner sounds very kind too.

Forget your mother. Treat it as though she does not exist, as far as sorting out this situation. Ask your father for more help. Keep your brother a bit longer, but work things out a little more formally. Explain to him gently why you need to set up a more formal agreement (you are not getting the money from your mother she had led you to expect she would be contributing ). Say he can stay a bit longer on condition that when he gets paid at the end of the month you and he set money aside for your bills, and some for savings for a month's deposit for him to go to a flat share as soon as possible.


Reassure him about flat shares.

If you cannot face helping him for a bit longer, help him talk to a bank to get a loan to tide him over, and help him find a flat share. In fact he will need your help with working out a budget - the internship money divided by the months of rent, food and transport and if your father does not help more, he may need a bank loan anyway if the internship does not cover the costs.

Don't let your mother get to you, but if possible don't let her ruin your brother's chances.

[leopardgecko]

Oh and OP, I wish I had a sister like you!

[RatherBeRiding]

You need to leave your mother out of the equation as far as possible, as she obviously isn't going to uphold her promise of financial help and would appear to have ulterior motive.

In your situation I would have a frank heart to heart with DB and explain that you can't have him living here long term, although are quite happy to put him up short(ish) term while he finds his feet. If there are plenty of rooms available for house-shares then he needs to be pro-active in finding one. He needs to understand that your DM has gone back on her promise and that it is now up to him to sort out a budget and find accommodation but that you will offer as much support as you can.

I do agree with kinddogs - you must treat your DM as though she doesn't exist in this scenario. She's not there - she is at the other end of the country. She is not helping, in fact she is doing the opposite. She is not contributing financially, practically or emotionally.

[GabsAlot]

sorry if i got it wrong but if u know shes not really wealthy and couldnt affor to sub him why did u let him move him?

she clearly cant so u shojld have worked something else out or just said no-

also she cant be a gurantor if she cant show any credit/income herself

[AdaLovelacesCat]

" But that won't do for him, apparently "

it is what we all did in London. If your mother thinks this is not good enough for her precious little flower then tell her to put her money where her mouth is. Or shut up.

By not letting him consider a flat share, and pushing him into the 'yuppie' accommodation she is not doing him any favours, and might even be trying to sabotage his chances, so he would have to run home to mother.

OP have words with ur bro about what people moving to London have to do.

[WipsGlitter]

I agree. Stop involving your mother. Go light contact rather than no contact. Take your brother out for coffee and get him to make a plan.

Basically he needs to save £1000 before he can move out - right?

When will he get paid?

[SometimesPeopleAreDicks]

Op I think realistically your brother is going to have to stay with you a bit longer

I agree with pp that you should take a third off him as digs money but keep half towards your household costs and half put into a savings account and give it back to him when moves out. Then sit down with your brother and work out a budget and a time frame for him to save a deposit for moving out. It might take a few months but if your brother is as shelter as you say you'll be preparing him a bit more for life in the real world and once he's saved up a bit of cash arrange a day to go look at house shares with him. I imagine after a few months of you just taking a third off him he'll realise that your mums suggestion is unworkable.

As for DTD give him £20 tell him to go to the cinema or for a drink with a friend as he deserve a treat.

[KingLooieCatz]

Could he get a second job evenings and/or weekends? Apart from the money you would get some time to yourselves at home.