To be very amused at some of the beliefs held by supporters of grammar schools?

(36 Posts)
BertrandRussell Tue 13-Sep-16 09:54:48

Here are a few I have culled from the plethora of threads over the last few days.

Learning to fail is an important part of learning to win. Secondary modern school children learn this valuable lesson by failing the 11+. Grammar school children learn it by watching the secondary modern school children fail the 11+.

There is no bullying in Grammar schools.

Grammar schools are full of gifted academics.

It is good for a middle ability child to be the top of their class- they find this empowering and motivating. It is bad for a high ability child to be top of their class, they find this boring and demotivating.

An A* from a grammar school is better than an A* from a comprehensive or secondary modern.

Children who fail the 11+ can get jobs in music, drama, art, sport or "working with people"

And, of course, the classic "Why on earth should a 10 year old who fails the 11+ feel any sense of failure?" grin

There are plenty more- feel free to add your favorites.

SwearyGodmother Tue 13-Sep-16 09:56:45

There is no bullying in Grammar schools

Don't know whether to laugh or cry at this one. I went through 4 years of hell being bullied at grammar school. If I had children I would never send them into that ultra competitive hateful environment.

rockyroad3 Tue 13-Sep-16 10:09:46

I failed the 11+ and my mother's world collapsed and went to a secondary modern. All of my friends went to the grammar and I actually got better results than them at GCSE. I transfered to grammar. I can sadly say that I am a big advocate of grammar schools. They are certainly no panaceas but there are so many more opportunities (sporting, school trips, persoanl development) and behaviour boundaries between the two schools were worlds apart. I have no experience of comprehensive's as we are a grammar/secondary modern area.

rockyroad3 Tue 13-Sep-16 10:12:14

Meant to say that I have 2 at grammars and 2 who are likely to go to SM. I will make extra effort for those two to do extra sports etc that they will not get in school.

user1471443957 Tue 13-Sep-16 10:14:46

So you're saying you think it's right that only a certain percentage of children should have those opportunities Rockyroad?

user1471443957 Tue 13-Sep-16 10:17:23

YANBU OP. Grammar school 'advocates' rarely mention how great secondary moderns are/were.

sandyholme Tue 13-Sep-16 10:27:13

Posters that continually use the designation 'Secondary Modern' when no such school exists today ( a school that a large number of pupils left at 15 having not taken any exams and valued vocational subjects over academic).

I do not think there is one school in England/Northern Ireland that calls it self a 'Secondary Modern'. However, despite this the anti lobby continually persist to use the term, probably to convince themselves of their 'Moral' superiority !

FlemCandango Tue 13-Sep-16 10:28:21

Fortunately we are in an area with no Grammar schools so I don't have to even consider them an option. I agree that their supporters seem happy to decide a Childs future at 11. No qualms about inequality of opportunity, no consideration of the fact that it is a way to get a private school style education for middle class children for free.

I cannot accept that reintroducing grammars is the answer, it doesn't help that when I imagine a grammar school teacher I immediately picture Miss Jean Brodie addressing her gels, the "creme de la creme"!

My dad went to grammar school in the 50s and went on to be the first of his family to get into university and get a professional job. My mum failed and went on to leave at 15 despite clearly being bright. The pass marks were 'adjusted' for girls and boys at that time
As too many girls were passing the 11+ and not enough boys.shock if they had both attended comprehensive schools they may both have been properly educated and given opportunities.

So no, improve the comps leave the grammars in the past.

funfunapple Tue 13-Sep-16 10:36:34

Yes I also laugh at the assertion that there is no bullying or bad behaviour in grammar schools. There is bullying everywhere and you have to hope that the school, which ever kind of school it is deals with it appropriately.

As for bad behaviour, well there may be less violent behaviour than there is in some schools but I have no doubt that there's just as much note passing, looking out of Windows, whispering and smart arse comments as there are anywhere else. I was talking to a mum the other day who has a child at a private school MN parents wet their knickers over and she was telling me about year 9 & 10 boys behaving appallingly in certain lessons, they cottoned on to the fact that a teacher was out of their depth and used it to their advantage.

Meanwhile my eldest is at a Comp and he was genuinely shocked when I asked him if there was poor behaviour in lessons and if they got held up because of behaviour management, he told me that never happened but I guess there are people here who wouldn't want to believe that either

TheFairyCaravan Tue 13-Sep-16 10:37:08

Don't forget it's the fault of all comprehensives that we're 20th in the world for numeracy and literacy. We can't possibly include the grammar school pupils in that.

My kids went to our catchment comp, the percentage of high achievers who made the expected progress between KS2 and KS4 in Maths and English was higher than grammar over the county border.

ptsleslie Tue 13-Sep-16 10:40:15

I failed my 11+, the shame and guilt I felt was immense. I cried so much, worried about my future, worried I'd disappointed my family etc. Not feelings an 11 yo should have.

Workinzzz Tue 13-Sep-16 10:48:07

I was sat next to a teacher from a fee paying primary and secondary school the other night who said to another "well some of the year 5 parents we had to tell not bother coming back this year as they didn't have a chance of passing the entrance exam, which is quite sad..."

I was shock so these poor kids have to go and try and fit in to a new primary school the year before they then move on to a state secondary after being in a "naice" school for so long and making loads of friends that they aren't as clever as. Just shock

sandyholme Tue 13-Sep-16 10:48:21

I failed and 'forgot 'about it, got on with my life ! Nothing was 'expected' of me anyway.

Actually i failed for the 'Modern' school since they wanted me moved to a Special School !

Seriously i must have been 'SUICIDAL' after all 15 of my 16 family members all passed the 11+ and i didn't.

I could not give a toss about it.

Stop using children for your own thoughts and views !

Stop 'POISONING' children about the 11+ it is Parents that make it such a big thing..

CousinCharlotte Tue 13-Sep-16 10:50:08

It's like we're travelling back to the 1950's, and not in a good way.

GoblinLittleOwl Tue 13-Sep-16 10:51:37

In my limited experience I saw plenty of snobbery in comprehensives , based on where pupils lived (they are just not like us, are they Mrs Goblin' said a child from a very liberal family who favoured comprehensive education), and pupils who worked hard and achieved were sneered at by the entitled middle class children who weren't prepared to put in the effort. In grammar schools pupils are judged more by their ability and their attitude to work, and the social mix is far more comprehensive.(pun unintentional).

kaitlinktm Tue 13-Sep-16 10:53:45

I went to grammar school in the 60s. It was a good education admittedly. There was some bullying even then - but mild by today's standards. Some of my bright friends who went to secondary modern not only didn't get any qualifications, they weren't even entered for any.

In the years I was there (until the sixth form) only one pupil transferred from sec mod to grammar - it didn't seem then to be a thing anyone could do. She did very well.

Lots of people from the sec mods joined the school in the sixth form and I could see no difference between their attainment and that of those of use who had been there from eleven years old.

My DC both went to grammar school. The older one did OK but the younger one was bullied throughout - right up until the sixth form as I found out then. With hindsight I wish I hadn't sent him, but I thought I was doing the right thing.

kaitlinktm Tue 13-Sep-16 10:54:41

... those of us not use

Humidseptember Tue 13-Sep-16 10:57:48

Op I think sometimes one can get caught up in confirmation bias, so you can read a large amount of information, but only see in it, what you want to see.

This is called confirmation bias. It seems to me you have pulled the narrowest arguments from recent threads and posted them in your op. What I have read has taken in much broader arguments.

Humidseptember Tue 13-Sep-16 10:58:59

Stop 'POISONING' children about the 11+ it is Parents that make it such a big thing..

Couldn't agree more.

kilmuir Tue 13-Sep-16 11:03:28

I think you post is a bit selective OP. I could go back and pick out stupid comments from those who don't support grammar schools.
I have children at grammar and academy schools. More grammars should not mean poorer academies.

AnchorDownDeepBreath Tue 13-Sep-16 11:04:58

I went to grammar school after passing my 11+. I wasn't supposed to pass. My parents hated me being at a grammar and only allowed it after the school promised to pay all my costs. It was absolutely the making of me.

rockyroad3 Tue 13-Sep-16 11:39:56

So you're saying you think it's right that only a certain percentage of children should have those opportunities Rockyroad?

Absolutely not, these opportunities should be available to all. However, whilst we have a grammar/secondary modern (I actually learned that term on MN) system then I shall endeavor to send my children to a grammar. I am not anywhere near a comprehensive catchment, but I do believe as long as there is a two tier system things will never change sad

BertrandRussell Tue 13-Sep-16 11:42:33

Hey, there are plenty of threads going on to discuss the rights and wrongs of selection. This one is to document the sometimes bizarre
beliefs of the supporters of grammar
schools. There is another one, by the way, to discuss the hypocrisy/idiocy of the anti selection camp......

Doggity Tue 13-Sep-16 11:53:47

I was bullied on the bus by the nasty girls from the grammar. Clever enough to get into a grammar but not clever enough to avoid the CCTV on the bus. wink

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace Tue 13-Sep-16 11:58:45

I've got one.
Grammar schools give a leg up to children whose parents don't have the various kinds of wherewithal to educate privately.
Therefore they are meritocratic, and extend opportunities to the poor but bright.
This is important, because a bright child in a comprehensive is doomed, in a school where there is a high proportion of children whose parents aren't especially invested in their education.

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