To want to shop my aunt for being a fucking vulture...

(104 Posts)
Fatmomma86 Tue 09-Aug-16 09:55:22

...but I don't even know if or how I can?

Background: My aunt A just died a few days ago in hospital.

My Dm, aunt B and aunt C took turns taking care of Aunt A for years. Though for a while aunts B&C were not allowed in her bungalow (Aunt A suspected them and one of their husbands of pilfering from her stashes on money) Dm tried to get her to put it all safe in a bank account but she still kept large amounts at home.

The rest of the family is angry at aunt B and aunt C for making her last days agony. She was on palliative care and had essentially been knocked unconscious with morphine. Her legs were ulcerated and the nurses had stopped dressing them to spare her the pain as she was near the end.

Aunts B and C went into hospital on her own once and made a huge fuss about the doctors trying to kill aunt A and how dare they not take care of her, prompting the doctor giving her something to bring her out of a coma.

Her last days were deeply unpleasant angry

Fast forwarding to today: Aunt B + C have produced a will. Essentially leaving everything bar a couple of bits to them and their husbands.

The thing is this will is scribbled on a piece of paper, in different coloured inks and also crossed out bits. Aunt B is emphasizing how this will is years old. Her and aunt C are 'witnesses' and executers.

There is a mention of lots of jewellery items on the will. Aunt B and Aunt C told my Dm they went to the bungalow to look for it but it's all gone now and they don't know where.

Dm knows there was an inexpensive necklace that aunt A wanted her to have for sentimental reasons that has apparently disappeared in to thin air.

There is no mention of a sizeable amount of money in the will that Aunt B and C claim aunt A 'wished' them to split. Only mention of money is three sets of £200 to their husbands and my Dm.

I've had Dm here in floods of tears this morning not knowing what to do. I've told her to go and get a copy of this 'will' but after that I'm not sure what it is we can do?

I know people say it all the time but it really isn't about the money, it's devastated my mum that her sisters have done this and I don't want the thieving fuckers to get away with it.

TwistNshout Tue 09-Aug-16 10:04:04

This sounds dreadful - I am so sorry flowers

However I don't think you can be a witness and beneficiary of a will - that fact alone would compromise the "will". It is to stop undue influence / fraud.

Your DM would be wise to get legal advice ASAP.

Fatmomma86 Tue 09-Aug-16 10:08:27

TwistNshout Thank you, yes I've said she needs proper legal advice.

On the actual will Dm said it didn't mention this large amount of money going to the two Aunts, just the money to their husbands and my Dm. Does this mean they have dodged the 'no witnesses must benefit' rule?

I'll know more when she shows me the copy later.

Whatthefoxgoingon Tue 09-Aug-16 10:08:46

That will does not sound legally binding. They need to be witnessed by non beneficiaries and properly registered. Seek legal advice ASAP.

InTheDessert Tue 09-Aug-16 10:08:50

I'm sorry for your loss flowers
I'd be very very suprised if you could witness, be executer and benificary of a single will, and would therefore doubt the validity of the will, if indeed it was made by your Aunt.
I hope you get some answers from those more qualified than me soon.

FadedRed Tue 09-Aug-16 10:08:55

The 'will' is not valid:
1) beneficiaries cannot be witnesses
2) relatives cannot be witnesses.

TheOptimisticPessimist Tue 09-Aug-16 10:10:30

So sorry for your loss and that this is happening to your family flowers

Twist is right though - you can't be both a witness and a beneficiary to a will, so it's exceptionally likely that the 'will' won't stand and they won't get what they think they are entitled to.

I agree your DM should get some legal advice.

ICanCountToOneHundred Tue 09-Aug-16 10:10:39

Anyone who will inherit property under your will should not be a witness to it. This requirement prevents witnesses from coercing will makers into leaving them some property. If later called to court to testify about the state of mind of the will maker, witnesses receiving property would obviously have reason to fabricate a thing or two. Better to choose any other person over 18 and of sound mind as a witness. Don't worry, the person doesn't have to read your will, just observe that you're the one signing it. For other information on what not to do with a will, see What a Will Won't Do.

lalalalyra Tue 09-Aug-16 10:11:27

The will is invalid because you cannot be a witness and a beneficiary.

FadedRed Tue 09-Aug-16 10:13:20

Cross post
I'm pretty sure the 'relatives' covers the spouses too, and the 'alterations and crossings out' would also be an issue with validity.

StillDrSethHazlittMD Tue 09-Aug-16 10:15:19

Echoing everyone else, the will is clearly invalid. See a solicitor immediately.

Fatmomma86 Tue 09-Aug-16 10:16:15

Fantastic thank you, I'm going to call Dm in a minute and tell her.

Can I just take her to a solicitor, is that the next step?

Also re: the necklace, is it unlikely dm will ever see it again? There was no itinerary made of the bungalow. There was no bloody time, those vultures swooped round there hours after aunt A died while dm was busy.

There are cameras outside but I don't think she can prove they took anything sad

logosthecat Tue 09-Aug-16 10:16:49

It sounds like a fake will.

Get proper legal representation.

Get their 'will' chucked out and the actual, legal will instated. (As PPs have said, this is absolutely cut and dried since their will isn't legit).

Execute the legitimate will, and divide the property absolutely according to its letter. Make it clear that you think they are pulling a con.

Don't see them ever again.

logosthecat Tue 09-Aug-16 10:17:16

Oh, and change the locks. IMMEDIATELY!

Arfarfanarf Tue 09-Aug-16 10:19:15

She needs to act quickly. Get things frozen. Time is not on her side now.
She needs to get angry on behalf of her late sister - these people stole from her in life she thought and now it may be they are trying to steal from her in death.

Your mum owes it to her to stop that from happening.

Iloveowls2 Tue 09-Aug-16 10:20:17

I would speak to both a solicitor about the invalid will and the police if you suspect the aunts have stolen from the estate

sparechange Tue 09-Aug-16 10:25:25

There is no question that this will is invalid, but is there a proper will as well?

If not, won't everything just be divided between the sisters, so the toxic ones still stand to gain, albeit not as much as they would have got?

MummaGiles Tue 09-Aug-16 10:25:26

Find a solicitor that specialises in private law. This is a complex area but a general practicioner who might not be that well experienced would probably have no qualms about giving advice when they shouldn't. Use the law society's find a solicitor service.

Fatmomma86 Tue 09-Aug-16 10:31:53

I'm not sure if there is a legitimate will.

Dm has said she wants to wait until after the funeral before she speaks to someone 'to give them chance to put things right themselves' and so there isn't a scene.

I don't have her faith in them all of a sudden realising the error of their ways.

Will it be too late after the funeral?

If they take money out of the bank/ anything else out of the bungalow in the meantime could they be done for theft?

StillDrSethHazlittMD Tue 09-Aug-16 10:33:28

NO! Waiting until after the funeral is too late, your DM MUST act now. Seriously.

Whatthefoxgoingon Tue 09-Aug-16 10:38:45

Yup. It's the people who "don't want to make a scene" that the vultures love. Don't delay!

diddl Tue 09-Aug-16 10:38:49

If they are so desperate that they would fake a will to screw your mother over I can't see them "putting it right" tbh.

Also does anyone have the right to enter the property?

How have the other Aunts managed to get in & remove stuff?

sparechange Tue 09-Aug-16 10:39:22

I know your mum is reeling from the death of her sister, but she is being awfully naive to think they'll change the habits of many years, especially after this latest twist.
While I can see why you don't want to push her into doing anything else, you can certainly help her by making discrete inquiries on her behalf with your aunt's solicitor as to whether there is a will lodged with them.

The estate is 'locked down' from when she dies until probate is granted so yes, any money taken from accounts is theft, as is any items of value from the house, but the latter might be harder to prove

Fatmomma86 Tue 09-Aug-16 10:40:04

I've just told her that on the phone.

I will try and speak to her properly when she comes round later.

She's very upset, barely able to talk about it.

Those absolute bastards.

Rubies12345 Tue 09-Aug-16 10:41:03

You need to try to find out if there is a real will.

Also, you don't say if late aunt had any children?

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