To ask about FY1 and FY2 placements

[TheWorriedTalrus]

Obviously I'm not a doctor myself but just asking out of interest. Do all the placements have to be different or can you repeat a placement in the second year? Also do people then specialise after these two years? Thanks!

[Rattusn]

It is possible to repeat a placement, but not usual.

Some go on to speciality training after fy2, but with the new (appalling) junior doctor contract due to be imposed, most are now choosing to take time out to see what will happen, or leave the country to eg NZ/oz where junior doctors are paid and treated much better.

[TheWorriedTalrus]

Ok so you would do 6 different ones?
Didn't realise people were taking time out, really? Urgh Jeremy hunt

[anotherBadAvatar]

Mine were

FY1
Medicine (gastroenterology)
Surgery
Paediatrics

FY2
Medicine (respiratory)
A&e
Surgery (orthopaedics)

So yes, you can repeat medicine/surgery placements, but they are usually in different specialties.

Wow- that was 11years ago now for me! The new FY1s would have been about 12 when I started as a doctor!

[anotherBadAvatar]

Yep- speciality training after those 2 years usually, but not always.

[OverTheHandlebars]

I think it's 40-something percent of current FY2s didn't apply for specialty training this year, so are taking at least a year out.

[TheWorriedTalrus]

So doing eg locum work? That's a huge percentage!

[Victoriaplum79]

Another Well now I feel really old as the foundation programme didn't even exist when I did my first job!

[Susiesue61]

Same Victoria! I qualified 21 years ago this month

[TheRealBarenziah]

At my hospital, it was unusual to have to repeat a job when I did Foundation (recently - 2011-2013). My jobs were:

F1

Renal & general medicine
Upper GI & general surgery
Paediatrics (it's rare to do this as a house officer, but I was at a major teaching hospital)

F2

General Practice
Psychiatry
Critical Care

Now starting my fourth year of GP training and loving it

Why do you ask, OP? I am a fairly recent graduate so am happy to give further info about my experiences of Foundation if required!

[DebbieFiderer]

Can I ask a related question? Where I work in Maternity all the SHOs we get are either FY2 or ST1/2. Would that be a Trust policy that FY1s don't do Obs&Gynae or is it a general rule?

[Rattusn]

It is very rare for fy1s to do obstetrics and gynecology anywhere, for a variety of reasons. I don't believe it is so much trust policy, as a national norm.

[DebbieFiderer]

Thanks. Are there any other specialities that applies to? A&E? Neonatal?

[WhoTheFuckIsSimon]

We don't even get F2s in
Obs and Gynae.

I think this is partly due to limited placement numbers, priority needs to be given to the STs and VTS trainees.

Our neonatal unit had an F1 recently.

[Doggity]

Is there a timescale when you have to have completed F1 and 2 by? I know someone who keeps having babies and taking maternity leave. She's still very keen to qualify and I highly doubt she'd give up as she's worked so hard thus far. She's a friend of a a friend though, so I'd feel nosy asking her directly.

[Rattusn]

Debbie A&E, peads (&neonates) and GP

dignity AFAIK there is no timescale. The minimum % ltft is 50%, and with maternity leave it is possible to extend this to many years.

[TheWorriedTalrus]

Thanks!! Friend of friend is doing paeds for their fy1 and I thought that was pretty unusual, that's why I asked! So some places offer it and others don't??

[jnh22]

doggity
I keep having babies and taking mat leave, too . I'm currently taking a year out of the FP. You can hold GMC provisional registration for 3yrs so need to finish F1 within that time once you applied for GMC registration. Though there is no time limit between graduating med school & applying for provisional registration/starting F1. Typically, you are only granted a 1yr time out between F1 & F2.

There's also the specialty applications which can be affected if you progress through your training slower than would be expected.

I am actually astounded (& disappointed) by how a career in medicine is so family unfriendly. Everything from when we get allocated to a region then our actual jobs to them giving us the rotas 1 week before we are due to start (how do I arrange appropriate childcare?!) to pay (childcare costs significantly more than an F1 or F2 salary - or in my case at least as my husband works abroad). It's really disappointing and has required a lot of sacrifice.

[Rattusn]

jnh I hear you. Also to add, is how badly the nhs treats pregnant employees. Experiences that myself and my colleagues have had include being told to do on calls until going on maternity leave, regardless of health issues/occupational health recommendations, as well as blatant bullying of pregnant doctors. I can't imagine many other employers being this bad.

[Maggiemufffan]

I work in emergency medicine, no F1's but plenty of F2's and GP trainees. Agree medicine is not a family friendly career and with the majority of medical students being female now I think there is going to be a crisis in the not too distant future unless something changes and as we have all seen of late things seem to actually be getting worse.

[jnh22]

Most of the family unfriendliness things seem to be largely unnecessary. It is almost like "they" go out of the way to be unhelpful. I'm in my 40s and have worked a lot of different jobs before medicine and none of them would have expected me to work without a contract, schedule, any idea of antisocial shifts or even my direct supervisor's name!

I know it's not personal or specific to me but the whole attitude that I should just be grateful for being allowed to work and completely arrange my life at short notice to accommodate then really gets to me. And they're so rude about it as well - I've been told they my husband has a responsibility for childcare, that I should just get emergency childcare and even that j was irresponsible & unprofessional for taking a year out given all the investment that had been put into training me . It doesn't really endear me to medicine/the NHS.

[nocoolnamesleft]

Hard to send out rotas when medical staffing can't even tell us how many jds we're getting a month in advance, and even after that give us the wrong contact details.

I'm not sure I have any hair left to tear out. Not the first impression you want to give your new team!

[Familyof3or4]

I have seen F1s in maternity but it isn't a great F1 job as there isn't a lot they can do on their own.
Ditto A+E as each person they see has to be reviewed by a senior so not really a money saver for trusts.

[Familyof3or4]

I did neonates as an F1. Was supposed to be totally supernumary but we all know what that means in the NHS

[SockQueen]

I did both paeds and O&G in FY1 but was supernumerary - didn't have and responsibilities on delivery suite as part of O&G though, just ward-based gynae and post-natal.

My rotations were:
FY1
Paeds
Gen med (gastro)
O&G
Orthopaedics

FY2
A&E
GP
Gen med (renal)

Not uncommon in my foundation school to repeat gen med/surg each year, but usually with a different subspecialty.

I am currently about to go on maternity leave next week and have actually been treated really well in pregnancy - appropriate risk assessments, taken off on-calls at a sensible time, lots of people being very supportive. I think this is a combination of a)me being pretty assertive about what I want, b)being a slightly senior trainee (I'm a reg) in a generally supportive specialty (anaesthetics) and c)my hospital being very nervy about pregnant trainees as they got in big trouble a couple of years ago with the GMC/deanery about how some pregnant doctors had been treated.