To ask for an explanation of this please

(24 Posts)
ConfuciousSayWhat Mon 11-Jul-16 23:32:37

I don't want to start a race row or anything like that but why can people not say "all lives matter"?

This is in relation to what's going on in America BTW

WorraLiberty Mon 11-Jul-16 23:34:35

Do you really need an explanation?

AYD2MITalkTalk Mon 11-Jul-16 23:34:41

Because black people are the ones being treated as though their lives are worth less than others'.

omri Mon 11-Jul-16 23:35:48

Seriously? hmm think about what's been going on...

noeuf Mon 11-Jul-16 23:36:26

Because it needs bloody spelling out that black people shouldn't be shot willy nilly and that doesn't appear to be happening to white people in quite the same cavalier manner?

Lucked Mon 11-Jul-16 23:36:55

this

Parietal Mon 11-Jul-16 23:37:02

A couple of good explanations have already been put up - essentially, saying 'all lives matter' minimises the specific & racist problems faces by black people in America without doing anything to solve the problem.

See also this

chainsawsuit.com/comic/2014/12/08/all-things-considered/

and this

"Imagine that you're sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don't get any. So you say "I should get my fair share." And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, "everyone should get their fair share." Now, that's a wonderful sentiment -- indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad's smart-ass comment just dismissed you and didn't solve the problem that you still haven't gotten any! "

(via np.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/3du1qm/eli5_why_is_it_so_controversial_when_someone_says/ct8pei1)

Nannawifeofbaldr Mon 11-Jul-16 23:39:20

<sigh>

You are missing the point. of course all lives matter.

But if you happen to be black and poor and living in America would could well be forgiven for feeling that the state, the police force and society in general thinks that your life matters less.

Hence the need to remind everyone that "Black lives matter"

We should be ashamed that this is something that people need reminding of, because racism isn't only an issue in the USA as we have recently witnessed.

ConfuciousSayWhat Mon 11-Jul-16 23:39:27

Thank you lucked and paretial

ConfuciousSayWhat Mon 11-Jul-16 23:41:26

Perhaps because racism is less of an issue here than it is in the states that to me it seems like a daft sentiment. To me of course black lives matter, all lives matter and it seems daft to my mind that it needs pointing out.

No need to be huffy about it!

WorraLiberty Mon 11-Jul-16 23:41:42

There's lots and lots of info on Google OP, if you're interested.

Some of it is pretty heartbreaking though.

WorraLiberty Mon 11-Jul-16 23:45:44

Do you honestly think racism is less of an issue here?

It really isn't.

GB is much smaller than USA and also we have different laws regarding guns, so obviously a lot less people are shot/killed here by police.

But that doesn't mean racism is less of an issue.

For example, my 3 sons have never been stopped and searched when out alone, or out with an all white group of friends.

However, all 3 of them have been stopped and searched when out with black friends.

GloopyGhoul Mon 11-Jul-16 23:46:28

"Black lives matter" means "Oi, fuckwit, black lives matter, too." Not, "Only black lives matter."

HTH.

WorraLiberty Mon 11-Jul-16 23:52:06

Exactly Gloopy

Being 'pro black' does not make you 'anti white'.

It only takes a tiny bit of research to see why groups like that sadly need to exist.

Nannawifeofbaldr Mon 11-Jul-16 23:58:02

There are people dying because of this issue, "huffy" is an under reaction if anything.

I don't know your background OP but personally I'm an educated, prosperous middle class white woman. I'm deeply aware that means I'm more privileged than the vast majority of the other people on this planet.

It behooves me to at the very minimum take some time to try to understand what other people's lives are like.

I can assure you that there is plenty of racism in the UK - have you not read the news for a month?

herethereandeverywhere Mon 11-Jul-16 23:59:51

Because in the US if you're black you're 20 times more likely to be shot dead by a police officer than if you're white?

99GBPChargeToUseMyPostsJournos Tue 12-Jul-16 00:00:37

That's like suggesting that suffragettes should not have campaigned for votes for women, but votes for all.

attheendoftheday Tue 12-Jul-16 00:49:34

I like this explanation.

HopefulAnxiety Tue 12-Jul-16 00:50:24

Search for Black Lives Matter UK on Twitter. Unfortunately it is needed here too.

It only seems daft to you that it needs pointing out because you haven't experienced institutional racism, or witnessed someone else experiencing it. It is an issue here too - it happens differently given our gun laws and different racial history, but it happens.

I realise you were asking a genuine question, but people get huffy because people are going out of their way to silence and dismiss black people speaking out against anti-black racism*. It really does not take much research - Beyonce literally has it spelled out on her website at the moment. The various Black Lives Matters hashtags on twitter have some brilliant and heartbreaking stuff - as a fellow white person, just listening to the stories of people affected by racism is what really helps you understand it. Just listen to them.

*specifying anti-black racism here bc the issues here are about specifically anti-black racism, but obviously not all racism is specifically anti-black

Canyouforgiveher Tue 12-Jul-16 00:57:47

because it is absolutely clear that white lives matter but not so clear that black lives do.

Why is it any oppressed segment of society can't say a word now without some bright spark saying something along the lines of "men/white people/upper class have feelings too you know"

The experience of being black in america is radically different from the experience of being white.

I suggest you goggle Jesse Williams' speech at the BET awards as a starting point.

Also maybe because black people were like ... enslaved in america just because they were black. and the country entered civil war (where more people were killed than the sum of all the other wars america ever fought) entirely over the issue of slavery - the wish to enslave black people in perpetuity. And the civil rights movement in US led to black deaths/murders etc. So maybe there is a bit of history there. Suggest you read up on it.

BertrandRussell Tue 12-Jul-16 01:01:01

Because people still post things like the opening post of this thread.

OlennasWimple Tue 12-Jul-16 01:01:21

I live in a v liberal bit of the US - I wouldn't live even here if any if my family was black

Canyouforgiveher Tue 12-Jul-16 01:06:09

That's like suggesting that suffragettes should not have campaigned for votes for women, but votes for all.

Interestingly, the american suffrage movement was closely aligned with the abolitionist movement during the civil war years. But when the war was over it became clear that it was more acceptable to give the vote to black men than all adults. and the abolitionists went for the vote. So the american suffragists watched black men - previously regarded as commodities, not humans - get the vote before themselves. Pretty sure they knew where white men ranked them in society's hierarchy then.

HopefulAnxiety Tue 12-Jul-16 01:12:32

Canyou do you know about Ida B Wells? An amazing black American suffragist who faced appalling racism from white women campaigning for women's suffrage. Actually, everyone reading this should read up on Ida B Wells.

Also sadly even the UK suffragettes didn't care about votes for all women, though here the divisions were more on class lines. Sylvia Pankhurst was the younger Pankhurst who broke ranks and wanted all women to have the vote, not just women who owned property.

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