To Feel So Sad/Helpless Dog-Kicking Neighbours Have New Puppy?

[JoffreyBaratheon]

Posted here at the time a few months back. I was woken up one Saturday morning by my neighbour screaming:
"Get out of the fucking car - NOW!" And thought "Here we go again!"

She was heaving her 8 year old black lab from the car boot onto the drive where it lay prone whilst her lovely husband kicked it in the stomach, four times, hard. Their kid (around 3) stood between them and watched the whole thing impassively, which was almost the most disturbing aspect.

It happened in seconds. My phone was downstairs (I now keep it on the windowsill wherever I am). Police had previously told us never to approach or speak to these people, but wouldn't say why only that they have a string of convictions. My husband was out taking the car with him which must be why they assumed no-one was going to see them.

RSPCA called out but sadly could do nothing as there had to be a second lot of witnesses, or I should have filmed it. (Incident lasted maybe 5 seconds).

They did tell me that they called, no-one answered the door, so they left a card then called again - which gave the neighbours enough warning to finally get the dog to the vet's - turned out it had advanced (untreated) cancer. But because in the few days since the call out they could honestly say they'd been "Backwards and forwards to the vet's" they had to be deemed good owners, as no film, no witnesses and not a mark on the dog.

Inspector told me she was aware of similar cases where dogs took severe kickings and had not a mark on them so they didn;t disbelieve me just there was no evidence - and a very firm denial.

I was left feeling the RSPCA believed me but could do nothing. Parting shot was "These sort of people will usually get a puppy and start the whole thing over again. All you can do is watch out for it, and if one appears, film anything you see."

Inspector told me a similar recent case locally got the man 6 months in jail because a passerby filmed it on their phone - they'd probably both have got that if I'd filmed what I saw. I asked if they really had to wait til a puppy got kicked to death before they could act. Bottom line is - with no proof... yes.

I've had PTSD pretty well - constant nightmares ever since. I can't seem to process what I saw.

On Saturday my 14 year old told me he'd just seen them playing with a black lab puppy in the back garden.

AIBU to feel so depressed and sick about something I have no control over?

I have a very spoiled, much loved, 2 year old rescue dog. Nice neighbours the other side have an elderly rescue dog that is also the apple of their eye.

In the 2 years they lived here before the dog died (It was PTS allegedly due to the cancer, a week or two later) it was left alone in the house for hours a day, howled all day and never once was walked. They have just gone out and I could hear pup barking.

I should add the reason I'm so upset this morning is I looked out of the window and saw it circling the spot where they buried the other - only about a foot deep, despite it being a labrador.

I have to work today and need a clear head. AIBU to feel so upset by the fact my neighbours have (inevitably) a new pup? It looks so innocent and trusting and I know what a shit life it has ahead of it.

[Booboostwo]

What an awful, heart breaking situation! I cannot suggest anything other than trying to have a phone handy at all times to film them.

How do they treat their young child if they are so awful to their dog?

[JoffreyBaratheon]

They have two kids, I guess their ages around 3 and 5 (I don't know where the older child was when this happened, as we only saw the younger one standing on the driveway).

We've heard them called the most obscene things - heard them yelled at - noticed they are never allowed to play in the garden unless there are visitors, and there is a bit of set dressing goes on, with garden toys etc left out if SS visit.

I also once heard what sounded like the younger child being pushed or thrown against a wall or door and called a "cunt". I rang SS. They came out and clearly there was some cause for concern as they visited for a month or two, then stopped.

We have contacted the NSPCC and again, there seemed to be same brief SS visit, then nothing. The children look well dressed and cared for. The father is cogent when the police turn up in his drive, and everything is always denied.

Last year, council workmen disturbed a pile of tree prunings in their back garden and told me a swarm of rats ran out and underneath the branches they found dirty nappies (nothing wrong with our refuse collection service so it is puzzling). These were council workmen and the council were made aware but again -nothing happened. I had to have the rats poisoned with bait laid on my side of the fence as the EH refused to call or ring them.

The male child (older one) is almost silent. We rarely hear his voice. The younger female child seems to be the problematic one - she screams a lot, and seems to defy them (and she's the one I think gets hit).

Police did once call me, out of the blue, on my mobile number (can't remember giving it to anyone but there you go) and asked if I was willing to be a witness if they took them to court re. the kids... But then never contacted me again.

RSPCA Inspector commented there is usually animal abuse where there is child abuse.

We have heard them having loud, drunken conversations that are explicitly sexual (the man telling the woman which of her friends he wants to "fuck" - both children being present). SS, NSPCC, police, council - no-one does a thing about it.

[Studious]

This is where I would probably use social media and make everyone aware (under a different name). It's the only way anything seems to get done, I don't really care if that's deemed as wrong.

[MargotLovedTom]

I'm sorry I have nothing constructive to add but what a hideous situation.

[RebeccaWithTheGoodHair]

God that's so horrible, poor dogs, poor kids. I know people always say they will be on the radar so perhaps just keeping on supplying info to SS, RSPCA, NSPCC, police ... and so on.

I can understand why you feel sick. I feel so sorry for you seeing all this going on and not being able to help.

Bastards.

[Barmcakebessie]

This is unbelievable. You need to keep on and on and on , get neighbours to keep on too until something is done. RSPCA are a bit shite in my experience. God, witnessing something like the kicking that dog had and they just told you to film it next time! Bloody hell.

[Veterinari]

Oh Joff that's awful
Please contact the links project for support and advice there's a clear link between animal abuse and human abuse.

It may also be worth raising your concerns with the vet and taking them Links info so that they can flag any issues with the dog ASAP
www.thelinksgroup.org.uk

[Mycatsabastard]

Bloody hell, what horrible people. Those poor kids and poor dogs.

Sadly this is the sort of case that will make it to headline news when one of the adults finally flips and it will come out that endless calls were made to various services and nothing was done.

If I thought you could get away with stealing the puppy I'd say go and get it and hand it in to somewhere who can home it to nice people.

[JoffreyBaratheon]

It's a small stand of only 4 houses in the middle of nowhere, and they are in the end house so we are the only adjoining house (and no-one overlooks us opposite, only fields all around). So we have always been up aganst it as we tend to be the only witnesses to anything. They lucked out when they got the house - an abuser's dream.

Their house bristles with CCTV cameras (in a very low crime area) and I did point out the RSPCA could seize their cameras/hardware, as 2 cameras were pointing right at the spot in the drive where they kicked the old dog - but the Inspector said they can't do that. If every crime had the criteria "Film it or it didn't happen" - we'd have empty law courts though, so I don't understand why animal cruelty has a higher threshold of proof than a crime against a person? I'm a person with a good name in the community who worked for many years with disabled/disadvantaged kids, who had enhanced DBS status to do my job - why is my word not good enough to secure an investigation?

Must admit I also wondered why - if the police and RSPCA could do nothing without a second witness, or film of the incident - then at least SS wouldn;t take it seriously, when it came out that a child had been about a foot away from all of this, whilst it happened..? Wouldn't a child watching a dog having the crap kicked out of it, also be abusive to the child?

Our other neighbours have heard and seen a couple of the worst incidents, and also spoke to the police and council. I think we were believed because they gave us the first 6 foot garden fence in the history of this council. But with no proof, the kids like the dog, are stuck with it.

My son did once manage to film a disturbing incident on his iPad - I contacted the NSPCC and told them we had filmed it, if they wanted proof to pass on o other agencies - they never requested it. (And same son since broke that iPad. I had tried to email it to myself but the video was too long, and I couldn't figure out how to save it in sections).

Fecking grim that I am even having to do this shit and grimmer still when the agencies involved, don't care anyway.

If you are reading this and sold a black lab puppy to an unemployed couple in North Yorkshire on Saturday (or Friday, not sure when it appeared) - to a middle aged bald man and a young, thin woman with a greasy ponytail - shame on you.

If backstreet breeders and puppy farms were stopped there would be a lot less suffering in the world. Now my kids and I have to wait to see abuse and film it before that poor little dog can be got to a place of safety.

I'll be honest and say if it ever got into my garden - and that is unlikely at the back, but possible at the front - I will take it straight to a rescue, and assume it's not microchipped - and so will the other neighbours.

[WiMoChi]

If it were me, I'd lie. I'd get two witnesses to lie too about hurting the dog. Get them banned from keeping animals. Whilst working in keep calling authorities about their kids.

If there's definitely abuse I'd do anything I could (without risking me and mine) to help an innocent party.

Heartbreaking thing to read. Must be very frustrating for you.

[WiMoChi]

Hmm. Also. Yes. If your kids are witnessing this then isn't that abusive to your kids to see and hear?? Could go from that angle??

[KoalaDownUnder]

This is horrific. What utterly loathsome people.

I would be so tempted to try and steal the puppy.

[shinynewusername]

I'd get two witnesses to lie too about hurting the dog

Daft idea - defence lawyer will eat them for breakfast and everyone risks a conviction for conspiring to pervert the course of justice. Meanwhile the child & dog abusers get off scot free.

[JoffreyBaratheon]

Wi - I have often thought that if the authorities won't do anything to get these kids (and now this little pup) out of danger, then there should be some mechanism for 'bystanders' in these cases to sue the perpetrators directly for child abuse. As you say, the stuff my kids (14 and 15) have seen and heard is stuff no child should see or hear.

My youngest was home ill the day they buried the dog by digging an 18" deep hole with a child's seaside spade, covering it with a tiny sprinkling of earth then stomping all over the body - up and down. It was so sick and gruesome, my kid's reaction was actually to laugh (it didn't feel real). But what damage has that done him? And if social services think their kids are already expendable then mine sure as hell aren't.

My husband reckons, the police and SS are kept busy by people reporting people like this, so it's in their interests to let it continue so they stay in work. I thought he was being a bit too cynical, at first. But it looks that way, nearly 3 years on...

The frustrating thing is don't feel the people we have contacted - well, the police, RSPCA, council (they're council tenants) disbelieve us. There is just nothing they can do. However, I did get the feeling the NSPCC and local SS truly didn't give a stuff, and possibly didn't even believe us anyway.

The neighbour passes anything we say off now as 'neighbour dispute', and 'malicious reporting' - and when my kids saw him talking to coppers in his driveway about one of the incidents, said he was remarkably cogent and laughing and joking with them within 5 minutes and sent them off happy. I'm guessing SS etc don't have the will or the resources to punch through the tissue of lies. It is easier for them to believe we're making it up.

I think if that dog had been necropsied he must have had old fractures etc as well as the longstanding (untreated til a week before he died) cancer.

They're unemployed and the RSPCA told us they went to the local PDSA vet.

I can't get anyone else to lie, Wi even though it is tempting. Firstly, I couldn;t live with asking anyone to perjure themselves because they would get caught out. Evil people always seem to prosper under this system, no? Secondly, I will get evidence - I'm just going to have to. They're lucky to have got away with everything so far. Surely that luck can't hold?

The sad thing is - this puppy will pay the price.

And again - if you have read this thread and know someone who sold a young black lab male pup to a couple with 2 young kids, in a village in North Yorkshire, at or around the weekend - hopefully one day you will be exposed for what you are as well. If you're a relative of these people who bought a pup "for the grandkids" - if you recognise these people in anything upthread, for gods' sake get round there and get that dog off them and into a rescue. It won't end well.

I have always loathed backstreet breeders and round here many farmers sell black labs over the farm gate to randomers. It's a problem and there should be a crackdown.

[JoffreyBaratheon]

ETA: My 14 year old was laughiing out of sheer shock. His dog is the centre of his world. Watching this bald prat doing that (then crossing himself, FFS) must be emblazoned on my son's memory because it is on mine.

[ineedwine99]

OP you've been brilliant in all that you've tried, don't give up, at somepoint you'll get something on film, these disgusting pigs get cocky, just means keeping your phone with you at all times.
It's nice to know the children and puppy have you looking out for them and i hope it ends well

[JoffreyBaratheon]

Must admit we have felt disheartened with the whole 'film it or it didn't happen' attitude. I'm sure that doesn't apply to other crimes, so why in the case of animal and child abuse?

Also we need more joined up thinking. If the SS are called to a house where there are animals as well as kids, contact the RSPCA. And vice versa.

Just heard her in the garden playing with pup - using that silly voice people do with puppies. Yet I never heard the other dog spoken to except in this awful shrieking, threatening way (it tried to escape a couple of times, and I saw her dragging it back).

My nice neighbours saw me moments ater this happened as I flung my clothes on, ran downstairs and straight next door to ask if they had seen or heard anything. They hadn't - he was in kitchen, I think and she was running a bath. But they saw the state I was in and I have no doubt, utterly believed me. I was still shaking. I wanted to speak to them before I rang the RSPCA because I had the feeling I'd need other witnesses.

All I can think to do is alert the other neighbours, and the postie (who is a dog lover and has told me in the past she has reported people on her walk to the Dog Warden) and make sure everyone has their eyes peeled.

I hate the way this makes me looks nuts. But I can't stand back and do nothing. The man has totally convinced all the authorities we have it in for him so anything we say is discounted as malicious neighbours. Which has left him free to do as he likes. I say 'him; but it is not a DV situation - she is as abusive, if not moreso from all we have seen and heard.

I'm ashamed to say I'd already given up on the kids having tried and tried to get SS to take it seriously. And failed. I have the horrible suspicion that I'm more likely to be able to catch them out with the pup than the kids though, and maybe one will help the other?

I did tell the RSPCA Inspector if I catch anything on film I will have no compunction to put it up on YouTube (without blanking any faces, no matter who is present), naming the people, before I send it to them and the police. What I didn't add was - I suspect if I did that, I'd get a load of shit about identifying them, but also the authorities would then be too embarrassed to look the other way, as they have previously.

There was a lengthy grandparent visit on Friday - they rarely stay more than an hour or so but this went on all afternoon and evening. We reckoned at the time they were blagging something. Which is what makes me think maybe they bought the dog "for the kids".

[Veterinari]

Joff please look at the links project - they have a great leaflet
www.thelinksgroup.org.uk/wccms-resources/3/141bb3dc-e44c-11e4-9dd2-0050568626ea.pdf

That you could give to local schools, vet clinics etc. And it may be useful in guiding future reports to NSPCC RSPCA etc. Sadly many of these services are overstretched and many vets aren't experienced in detecting animal abuse

[honeyroar]

Are there any local rescues you can get in touch with (via Facebook would be perfect). If you left comments about your concerns on a local rescue's Facebook page you may get other animal lovers regularly walking past and keeping an eye out. Or coming up with a better plan.

Hugs to you. I remember your original thread about it, it upset me reading it, so god knows how much it upset you seeing it.xx

[Hedgehogparty]

Horrific, basically beating a dying animal. It must have been in so much pain. Really upsetting to read this.

What sort of home for these children being brought up by these disgusting people.

[JoffreyBaratheon]

The dog, when it was being kicked, didn't make a sound (or not one I heard). That, and the child's almost boredom at witnessing this, made me think it was a regular occurrence.

[LikeIGiveAFrock]

Can you move this onto the doghouse board ?
Better knowledge and more contacts there

[JoffreyBaratheon]

I put it here for traffic. Maybe the idiots who bought the dog for them/sold it to them, might stumble on it and feel ashamed. ;o)

Or better still, take the dog back.

[littpic888]

I m sorry you suffered because of this situation.you have done brilliantly ...i would maybe contact p.e.t.a. or other organizations.but you need to keep yourself safe.its too lax in this country with animal welfare.if the RSPCA couldn't proceed with a case,when the police know already how bad they are,then god help us all.they are physically abusive to the children and the dog, maybe the independent police complaints commission should be contacted as nobody has done anything.its an outrageous situation,thank you for bringing it to public attention.